Tutorial Tuesday Episode 5 - How To Buy Second Hand Points
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Tutorial Tuesday Episode 5 - How To Buy Second Hand Points
Hello and welcome to another episode of Tutorial Tuesday. In this weeks tutorial we will show you how to buy second hand points and which ones are best for you. We will also show you which points can break easy and which are the most reliable
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I have to agree with you on the fact that Peco points are definitely the best. I have bought many on eBay for £5 each or £4 when buying 10. The springs are clearly superior. I don't think I'd buy any others because once there are fitted and ballasted if they fail then you have gone some serious repair/replacement work etc on your hands.
Given that my layouts tend to evolve that's why I don't ballast my track lol
@@BudgetModelRailways I normally leave several weeks of use before I think of ballasting track to ensure that it's working as I want it to. If I find that I've made a mistake, then good old fashioned hot water softens it up and makes it easy to remove.
I got my NOS class 33 Lima today, well pleased and runs beautifully with the Rovex Triang controller I bought last week from Triang-man, now I needs to find a paste table to begin my build having a good selection of Tri-ang and Hornby coaches, a fair few decent Tri-ang wagons, platforms, railside bits and even a nuclear flask. My Pannier I have to just do a small solder and that's rebuilt from top to bottom and I have rebuilt the pickup on my ancient 08 shunter replacing that stupid thin wire pickup and she's ready to roll soon too :) Last time I played with a train set was over 40 years ago and just loving it :D
Good for you, enjoy
There's probably more useful information there than in many other videos put together. Well done.
Thanks Dave
Just a point (sic); electrofrog relates to the nose of the point, and that these are metal, allowing conduction for more of the rail contact. That the power is switched (or not) is separate; dcc adds clips for conduction on both sets of rails, for insulfrog points, just like you have been discussing here. But good discussion, thanks. Needs to add mention of the conduction pathways, as switched blades rely on good contact that doesn't age well without care. Regards Tom
I was just going to say the same thing.....
ALL of the Turnouts (Points) shown, ARE insulated Frog. The real differences are, some were power routing, some were not.
Y'know he has a point.
Now here's a video that really makes a point. Sorry, sorry... Had to say it. 😊 Don't hate me.
Hello from one of your 49% of overseas viewers! I’m from New Zealand 🤗
Hello new Zealand. Our 4th largest number of views are from NZ, thanks for watching
You can use any type of points with dcc. With points that isolate you just have to wire each side of the point to each other so that the points aren't isolating any track sections. Dcc works by running ac as power and then send commands over dc. If your points isolate any track the trains sitting on isolated sections won't get any power or commands.
Don't go off the rails....get the point lol...very educational vid...David ex Liverpool now in Brasil.
Very good on detail....informative...
Great info, thanks
You didn't mention Tri-ang Series 3 points and point motors.
My DC layout is Tri-ang Series 3 and the points are great.
Mon from Brisbane
i think you accidentally got insulfrog (plastic frog) and electrofrog (metal frog) mixed up.
I think I must be unlucky, buying second hand track usually means I am buying somebody’s else’s problem.I do enjoy your tutorials, your ideas are very helpful.
🤪.Billy.
We have very few problems with second hand track its all we use
Having problems with points or switches?
Hi Mike thank you for getting back to me yesterday in regards to buying pre owned from your local model shop and how everything seems to be going on to eBay these days ? As a supporter who has watched many of your videos I do find these to be very helpful , I must admit I was a bit down yesterday because some of the prices are ridiculous and how these people expect folk to pay such prices is beyond me especially when we are in such difficult times 🤔
So this morning I decided I must keep trying so off I go back to my local model shop who I want to support and I say have you any pre owned 00 gauge track and points and he says yes but no straights just large radius and points so I told him the radius are to big for my shunting layout but I’m interested in the points so who’s are they , and how much because I will take the lot I was then told the points are Hornby and i remembered you saying Peco are the best points ? Then I’m told all points £10 each i remembered you saying pre owned £5 so I said thank you for your time and left the shop just as I was leaving I noticed 2 pre owned Peco 009 N gauge steam locomotive engines for sale and price !!! £150 each 😖 I’m not surprised the shop is quiet !! but I will keep trying Mike by going to the exhibitions and the toy fairs because I’ve since learned if you make them a reasonable offer most stalls will except it ! I’ve come this far and I’m determined to have my 6’x 2’ industrial shunting layout with all the buildings scratch built by myself ☺️. I know how much you like your diesels Mike and I’ve found you one I think you may like , it’s a TRI-ANG R357 00 gauge class 31 , D5572 in green livery see Des . (720). Full working order all returns are accepted and the price Mike is £16 this includes postage the item number is 185847788963 You have helped me I hope this helps you 🤔. Paul
Again, thank-you!
No doubt you have an insul frog electro frog (whatever they are) somewhere: I have just bought books on 'Wiring Your Layout'. Back to that model v play thing. Eg for making things for grandchildrens' co-play.
Thanks for the tutorial. Glad that my seconds are Peco:)
Good stuff. I started out with electrofrog points because everyone said the running was more reliable. However, as someone not electrically minded it's a long and steep learning curve, and frankly time would have been better spent in aspects of the hobby I'm more interested in. Even now it's very much trial and error when I lay new track.
In hindsight "dead frog" points would have been equally good and much more time efficient. Peco in particularly enable you to change the springs very easily when contact becomes sloppy. I'm surprised how much point prices have gone up. Not too many years ago I paid about £7 for Peco wide radius express points new, and £5 for small radius points, both live frog, code 75, brand new.
Some awesome tips here! A video I would love to see is how to set up dcc accessories such as points. Great video, very informative!
Great article, well done guys!
great tips all savings helps,thanks for sharing.....
Thanks Mike, lots of useful info in the video regards Kev
It's worth noting that in the US there are different rail sizes. They do not mix without specialized rail joiners. It is best to stick with all one rail size. For DCC operators it is best to select track with insulated frogs.
Andrew Kiely we have different rail sizes here in the uk but most use code 100 track IE. Standard hornby track you can by cone 75 track in most uk model shops as well
I like Atlas and piko (german company) turnouts/ points.
There's one area where I refuse to skimp... I've used Peco exclusively, and with zero failures! 😉
A point that has already been made, is that all of the Turnouts (Points) you've shown, ARE Insulfrog.... Sort of.
None of the actual Frogs carry any power, they're Plastic. Some of the ones you demonstrated, were "Power Routing", meaning that the power is switched to whatever Rail is selected.
Because they're all insulated Frogs, they are ALL DCC compatible. 😊
Excellent shopping skills!! Those are fantastic Prices! I RARELY see any used Peco in the US... And new, they're as high as $35 (£26)!!!! 😱😵 Fortunately for me, I've already got all the Turnouts I'm going to need... hopefully!
Carmine 💥⛽
I agree peco are the best
@Budget Model Railways. I have mainly 1970s and 80s (and a couple of 1960s) locos and stock including Silver Seal and have read that the reduced ‘back to back’ measurement on these can cause derailment on modern points (Peco points being most frequently referenced). I’d be interested in your experience with this as I’m about to ditch all of my old steel hornby track and replace with more modern point. Good slow running over points is also high priority. I’m leaning towards modern Peco but if Modern Hornby works better with my stock then that is probably a better option. Thanks.
Peco points are much better than Hornby due to the smaller plastic frog so are more efficient slow running wise. I find the opposite with locos etc, the older ones are more forgiving with the newer ones being very restricted with regard to smaller radius curves a and points.
@@BudgetModelRailways thanks for reply....it's convinced me to go with Peco.
enjoy it alot thank you
I get peco and Piko confused because they both make model rail products
Just reading this article three years after it was first shown! Living in Canada and wanting to build a fairly large layout with Hornby track,100% of my track was bought on eBay unfortunately! After completing the layout and then beginning to run trains fairly frequently,I then started to have problems with trains of any size using a crossover,some of the points then started to cause problems and then fish plates started to work lose. This maybe a sweeping statement but surely it’s about time Hornby updated its track and stopped building something which may have been okay in 1950 but not 2011. This along with the track power clip is frankly is a joke.
I moved up from N scale where I used kato track which was excellent to OO as with advancing age at least I could see what I was working on. As I have a Bachmann DCC controller I am going to start all over again with Bachmann track,it is in my view not quite as good as kato but is more available.
If you have the choice I would recommend Peco every time especially the points ,far superior to Hornby and Bachmann
Ps Kato do make HO track which is the same as OO
@@BudgetModelRailways yes I did realize that thank you it’s just there is more Bachmann track available in different sizes. I did notice that you diplomatically made no comment about the Hornby track! 🙂
The track is ok, the points are pretty awful, the few Bachmann I have are not much better.
I would like to make a small switching layout (HO/OO) but don't know what I need to do to make sure the electric connections are okay (DCC). I am concerned about having dead areas; or is that not an issue. Very simple is all I want to do.
In my opinion you could just go for any cheap points/switches without complicated wiring.
Most four axle locomotives, especially newer ones never give me any problems.
If you use small locomotives it's also possible to use the stay-alive technique to avoid stalling on insulfrog points.
Im impressed with my latest purchase then i got 8 point and 7 solenoids for a tenner.
Excellent, what make where they?
Hornby plated ones
Well,done you, bargain
It was the end of the day i thunk he didnt want ti take rgem home so i was in the right place at the right time .
Interesting, I only buy second hand oo gauge points, n gauge points are a bit too intricate.
DCC is too complicated for me.
It's not as simple as people try to make out, and is much more expensive to buy, and replace when it shorts and fries the chip! We find we can do everything we want, simpler and cheaper with DC.
DCC in my opinion is already coming to the end of it's shelf life like my Hornby Zero One system as decommissioned this weekend. I run 1980s authentic models so I can easily revert to analogue (or DC as you call it) The big problem is spare parts when components need replacing. VERY pricey for a Zero One setup. Simple - if it looks like it sucks don't blow anything investing in it! Your call after all - your layout is your pride and joy after all so why impair any part of it.
I reckon the future is radio controlled , just look at the Marklin children's sets, and what the do with RC cars fir a fraction of the price
As per BricksForDays below I would be really interested in a video on setting up dcc accessories such as points. I'm a relative rookie and need all the help I can get. Thanks.
Really sorry. We were put off by the high cost and complexity of DCC so have always just used analogue DC.
im in the uk
Love the video any more on eBay 2nd hand buying. Dose electro frog need insulation if running DCC. Any ideas on n gauge points
No you don’t insulate dcc track, the whole idea of dcc is that all the track is live all the time. Your trains are independently controlled via the chip in them. The whole idea of insulated track is for when you are using normal dc and you are running multiple locomotives on one track.
What do you think of the point kits you can buy. They have to be soldered together. Thanks for the info re points.
I admire the people who can make them
I am a little sceptical about buying second hand points as in many cases why would they be for sale second hand anyway if they were in working order? Also the older Hornby 'box and slider' assemblies on all of the ones I have ever bought have always come apart but this could possibly have been due to my use of them as a heavy-handed teenager! Should this happen then it leaves you with little chance of repairing them and with a uselessly unsecured switch. My feeling is that due to the risks of duds and / or false economy when second hand points stop working that these should be used to a lesser extent than new points. But that of course is at the discretion of the individual. Sorry I cannot help more on the subject of DCC operations as I have always been analogue or Hornby Zero One (the 'predecessor' of DCC) operations only only that DCC operation is chip and not current-supply dependent. Could be that this means that older points would be usable with a DCC system.
Second hand points are for sale because someone no longer needs them, just like a used car. At £3-5 a point instead of £11 that's a big saving esp if you need eight points on a layout
This I very much appreciate however I am considering both my experiences and the experiences of other modellers who I know who have been building layouts since before I was born: A number of whom also think like me as well as influenced my cautious approach. Just out of interest since I responded another matter has reached my attention which may only be avoidable with the use of older second hand track: The interface problem which exists between Hornby Silver Seal and 1980s vintage locomotive wheels and their failure to cross modern (present day) Peco and Hornby pointwork! You could possibly produce an advice video on this subject as it id fixable with care as far as locomotives are concerned but the Silver Seal wheels cannot be altered or treated the same way. I will happily accept that 'it's just me' with regard to this cautious approach. But I do still strongly feel that unless there's a specialist case like 1980s vintage models to accommodate that exercising a little caution could avoid a potentially disheartening and disappointing situation because of how in 99.9% of cases second hand points cannot be checked / their full working order verified.
I've bought loads of second hand points, with no problem, but had two brand new Hornby points fail. I've also bought about 50% from shops where I can check them. One if my layouts has ten points, that £110 new or £35 second hand, lots of people simply don't have that kind of money. Of course if you do then new is always safer, although that's not my experience. I know a lot of people say don't us second hand, but often because they have been told that, not because of actual experience ?
As I am happily prepared to accept my err on the side of caution may be down to my individual preference. As well as a spot of bad luck or maybe teenage heavy handedness with those early assembly Hornby points which fell apart! This increasingly intriguing discussion is starting to encourage me towards thinking more positively about second hand points particularly if the opportunity to test them is there. Where would this be possible please as I would happily make the journey! I hope that thinking you are restoring my faith and encouraging me to change my age-old views like this feels rewarding too :o)
To be fair it was also my heavy handed press that broke the new points, so that appears to be a common factor. The best shop for second hand is Classic Rail in Ticehurst Kent. Many shops sell second hand points, although I wouldn't pay more than £6 otherwise as you correctly say you might as well spend a bit more and buy new. I would always but peco in preference but it's not as easy to find, although I did get a box full from Eastbourne models and hobbies at £3.50 each. eBay is ok but more of a risk although one or two of the traders are very reliable. Hope this helps
I’ve got a peco LH point like your Y point shown at 11 mins.
Unfortunately the trains derail when running back through the point. Any tips? Cheers
Try seeing if the plastic base has warped, or see if its just certain wagons and locos or all of them. Is there a straight before the point or a curve?
Budget Model Railways
Thanks for the reply
I think the curve coming up to the point is too tight. It’s flexi track so I’ll have a play with it.
Have you had much joy with curves points?
Ive used them a couple of times with no issues. Try putting a really short set track straight just after the curve abducted before the point, just to straighten the wheels out before the point
Budget Model Railways
Thanks for the advice
I’ll give it a go
!Peco points are the best because they are English made!
What about piko is that a good track system
We don't tend to use Piko in the UK, so I'm afraid I wouldn't know sorru
This viewer doesn't mean Peco by any chance?
Good point
I think you may mean Peco here as the only other 'iko' I recall - Riko who used to be Lima Model Railways main distributor was put down ages ago. Peco Setrack is well produced and robust in its nature geometrically running along the lines of Hornby R600 / R601 and R610 + double R610 length straights and the R604 / R605 / R606 1st 2nd and 3rd radius curves. Points were 22.5 degree turnout and R600 length as was the Y point with 11.25 degree turnouts - all available. Peco always were market leaders in this field and the pre-owned Peco points I am aware of people buying have been the least problematic and longest lasting. Hope this helps :o)
Peco track is far and away the best available, I've just bought a second had point for £5 less than half the price of a new one and its fine
rocoho
Don't see second hand here
I'm not sure what you mean, as they were all bought second hand, indeed the Lima ones are no longer available Newark?
Pre-owned trackwork for sure. Or else where's all the packaging the points would have been sold in? Please be assured that I depend on the pre-owned and second hand markets for my authentic 1980s Vintage preference and I have some absolute gems now through careful searching and listening to good advice like what this video focuses on. Sometimes a good house clearance (job lot) solves my needs.
Except for a few N guage points I e never bought anything but second hand points, I couldn't afford to buy new ones!