Building the Legendary Macintosh POWER MYSTIC!
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- čas přidán 25. 03. 2022
- Thanks PCBWay.com - Today, we're building a Mac that I've been dreaming about building for the last 15 years - a Color Classic Mystic! But, this isn't just any Mystic - it's PowerPC!
How is this possible? Come find out!
VIDEO LINKS:
🍎 Branchus Creations Mystic Guide: • Macintosh Color Classi...
🍎 JDW Mystic Guide: • Color Classic Mystic (...
🍎 MARCHintosh: marchintosh.com/
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💾 For more vintage Apple stuff, please subscribe: czcams.com/users/ActionRetro?s...
💾 Support these retro computing shenanigans on Patreon! / actionretro
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Check out my Amazon page with links to my tools, adapters, soldering equipment, camera gear and more: www.amazon.com/shop/actionretro
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#MARCHintosh #Mystic #Macintosh - Věda a technologie
When I saw you snap the RAM into place after putting the board in so you could clear the screw mount, my first thought was this: "how in the heck does he ever intend to get it back out?".
Came down to see if anyone already pointed that out. You would think he could've swapped RAM positions or something. It looked like there were shorter sticks alongside it.
@@KnuckleHunkybuck There's only one RAM slot
I was going to comment on that. Then I thought, it's not that hard, you just use a long screw driver to release the rear clip.
Top tip with those PPC cards - the PPC CPU in there is actually rated for 75MHz - they're capable of more than 66MHz. They take the bus clock of the 040 and double it to derive the final frequency - do the spicy o'clock mod on there to tweak the bus speed to 37.5MHz and you should have a 75MHz PPC - you could probably put 40MHz through it, but at 37.5MHz, you wont need funky VRAM, or experience issues with the serial ports. Go on, you know you want to ;)
oooooo yes, I certainly DO want to!
Maybe put a 'full fat' 040 in while you're at it, instead of the LC - won't make any difference for PPC mode, but would improve 68K mode :)
@@richardbanks2669 Didn't 'Adrian's Digital Basement' do that 'full fat' 040 upgrade?
@@ActionRetroput a pci card in it to have the 9500 boot chime
@@richardbanks2669 LC040 wont work with the PPC card, it has to be a full 040.
Now witness the fire power of this fully armed and operational impossible Macintosh!!
Don't be too proud of this technological terror that Action Retro has constructed. The ability to mod a Classic is insignificant next to the power of Mac OS.
@@jtotheas 🤣🤣🤣👍👍
You underestimate his power!!
Action Retro has the higher ground!
9:45 you need to be SUPER careful when pushing those LC/Performa logic boards into those rails of darkness: one minor misalignment and you bend/crack the delicate golden contacts on the edge, rendering your board useless.I've seen a couple of machines in that era with destroyed contacts on that long delicate edge row.Great video as usual!
Second this! My color classic original board wouldn't boot. Turns out it was a broken contact on the edge connector. I was able to solder on a piece of metal to replace it and get it to boot, but I cringe every time I insert the board (which I try to do as little as possible. Currently swapped it out for a 575 board, so it's resting in a box for now.
I've been abusing these things for years and never broke a single one.
So it's essentially a bus-contrained PM6100 in a cute form factor. Nice!
Hahaha exactly!
This mod resembles me in 1997 when I purchased an Amiga PPC accelerator BlizzardPPC with a 68060@50Mhz and a PPC 603e @ 240Mhz with 128MB EDO RAM. I added the BlizzardVisionPPC Permedia2 3D card too. It was a frankenstein! 68K and PPC in the same architecture!!! Thanks dude!
Buying a 3D accelerator for the fucking Amiga = 🤣🤣🤣. Did you enjoy voluntarily lighting money on fire for no reason?
Wow Sean, I had no idea there was a DayStar PPC upgrade for the 575 board! Now you are giving me ideas on what to do with my other Color Classic. Great video!
It would be fun to see OS X on it now that it has a PPC processor. Although I think X needs a monitor that is able to output at 800x600.
It also needs to be a PCI Mac. NuBus PPCs can’t run OSX
It also needs to be G2 or later; OS X won't boot on a 601 regardless of what expansion slots it has.
Even with XPostFacto, Mac OS X requires at least a PPC603.
Even if it did work, I remember Mac OS X 10.2 being painfully slow on a PowerMac 7600 with a G3 upgrade. I can only imagine how glacially it would run on a 66 MHz 601 with only 36 MB of RAM!
@@mhyzon1 How about Linux?
@@roystonlodge yeah maybe, or netbsd
I hope your LC 575 finds some use too. So many of those things got junked during the early days of the mystic mod that I still find LC 575 logic boards easier than the whole computer. I currently have a LC 575 logic board in my Color Classic too but I actually now really want an LC 575s and wish I had one.
Incidentally you can actually put 256 MB of RAM on the LC 575 logic board and make sure to max out your VRAM too.
I’m thinking about trying to Takky mod the 575!
@@ActionRetro Thinking of doing the same to my 575! Got a 6400/225 logic board to do Takky on a CC but even dead ones are so expensive these days I decided to leave it at LC 550 mystic(uses stock back plate and it can stay at 512x384 because I can't stand VGA on that small CRT for blurriness and the reasons you mentioned in the video already, even recapped) and hack up the 575 since it's so dang brittle 1 in 4 screw holes broke last time I got into it.
I'll be graduating in May and the custom Mac soldering will commence. iMac G3 goes under the knife, er iron, first.
15:33 What's that? A multimeter for ants? Those probes look tiny...
You must have the craziest collection of accelerators I've never heard of but suddenly want, yet already know I'll never find in the UK 😁💜
That’s really cool. The color classic is one of my favorite Macs ever
I want Apple to get better at allowing us to upgrade our machines
Ohhhh yeah, a trackballlllll!!!! SWEET TRACKBALL ACTIONNNN!
Nice video, I enjoyed it a lot ! Just a little point : you managed to insert the motherboard with the "large" stick of RAM by sitting the RAM after insertion.
Now how do you manage to extract the motherboard without unseating the RAM (without any access on the far end clip) ? ;)
A long screwdriver and patience :)
In the spirit of modern Apple design, you don't.
Oh man, I wish I was well enough long term to tackle these Power Mac G4 MDD towers I've got at the moment. I had a bit of a burst of wellness this week so I replaced my 2015 MacBook Pro's battery though! I was so proud of myself! Great success!
Bro. I feel ya. Most days I can't get out of bed (depression), yet when I get the "spark" I'm doing massive repairs and customizations. I installed Windows 2000 Pro on my Lenovo B575 (AMD Vision, 6GB RAM, 128GB SSD + PAE patch for 2K to handle over 3.5GB RAM.) and replaced the battery in both my Galaxy J7s and my OnePlus N100.
@@tsuyunobradley4439 I ended up having to take the old MDD towers back to their original owner. I think he wants to sell them for parts. But I did have a fun time replacing the battery in my 2015 MacBook Pro! At first I put in a non-genuine battery and the whole system slowed down so much! I got a genuine battery yesterday and it's back to full speed. I have a Pentium dual core (sandy bridge) with similar specs, 6gb ram, 128Gb ssd. I was using it to run Manjaro linux but now I'm running windows 10 on it! It's slow but it works!
I see retrobrighting the LC575 went well, it looks great! I look forward to your next episode featuring it.
It's always a treat when one of your videos come out. Thanks!
Always fun and fun. And I love your attitude. Keep you the great work and let's get some more fun videos
Just to think about being able to switch between two architectures on the fly is mindblowing.
It's just too bad the 68k part is so weak but still, I get why you like this machine so much :D
With that power pc upgrade card could you possibly run Mac OS 9
Did you end up getting the Ethernet card reinstalled on top of that PPC upgrade? I see FrogFind at the end.
Awesome video, I know these were popular mods in Japan due to Macs being popular there, and the fact people had and still have more limited space in their homes, but I've never seen one in person either, or knew anyone who owned one.
i think you should make some kind of LCD mod on that macintosh to make it more Mystical
I love it! Wow I always dreamed of having this machine.
Now I would love to see you get that board out
Nice :) Reminds me so much of my LC 580, with a 5260/120 Logic Board in it :) Excellent upgrade ;)
I was thinking that too, but 1) considering the PPC side can only access 32mb anyway, and 128 is the max for the 68K side, there's rarely gonna be a need to take the board out anyway, certainly for the case of ram
And 2) if you really really needed to you could just take the case apart and reach in to do it
Wonderful project and video - thank you for sharing it! Many years ago I had a PPC Mystic and a Takky. The latter was faster but the PPC Mystic just had a special charm to it. Just an FYI: there's another, even less destructive option for getting the CC to display 640x480 VGA resolution: do the mod in the wiring harness that connects the logic board to the analogue board. That way the analogue board and logic board both remain untouched, so the mod can be reversed without having to undo any soldering or ground-away traces on the logic board. My notes say the wiring-harness VGA mod is pretty simple:
Logic Board Analogue Board
S19 20
S20 24
S21 25
STEPS:
(1) Cut 20, 24 and 25 at Analog Board connector
(2) Join 20 and 24 with each other (twist together, etc.)
Alas, I no longer have whatever web URL and/or diagram this refers to - d'oh! 🙂 But perhaps it might be useful anyway.
That design is legit dope, & distinct in my eyes ✅ 🖥️
I was lucky enough to get one of the 601 daystar/apple accelerators in a color classic on yahoo japan. it was visible in the picture but not really mentioned. the previous owner had also painted the chassis red with a silver base coat that was all scratched up
How will you get the logic board out again, as you can't reach the front of the large RAM stick anymore to unclip it?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too! Hope you never have to get that mobo out again! 😕
Oh, on further reflection he will be able to get it out, though it may require removing the case back. So, a pain in the butt, but not a show-stopper.
He did say he was gonna retrobrite it so it'll be coming apart again, could replace them with lower profile ones. But to be honest since the PPC doesn't touch that stick of ram and the 68k has a max of 128, I don't see there ever really being a need to take the board out again as long as it's already had maintenance work done already
Dude. You make the coolest machines and do the coolest things with them.
MEGA MYSTIC! WOOT!
It's good that you can switch back to the 040 chip with that upgrade. The early PPC chips were actually slightly slower running 68k Mac binaries than the 040. Older, pre-PPC versions of MacBench will bear that out. FWIW, you can also replace that 68LC040 with a regular one, equipped with an FPU. I've done that with a Performa 630, which let me play a couple of games that required an FPU.
I saw unpopulated footprints on the underside of the accelerator PCB - if they're for ram, could you just solder more on? Would improve PPC performance...
Great Upgrade Sean did not know the PPC upgrade was possible on the Color Classic
Whoa I’d never heard of this. Amazing
Now I need track down the parts to do this!
Man, I just cannot believe the shenanigans you get up to!
Boy, having grown up in the 2000s, it's surreal seeing someone actually... swap out components and cards on something made by apple.
So does the CC board work in the LC575 case?
given that having a mystic CC usually means having a spare CC board and empty LC575 case
every CC video I've ever seen never goes into this.
(they also all do the 640x480 mod, which might be pushing it for that screen size)
The PPC benchmark is slower than a 6100 because the CPU is limited by the 33Mhz bus speed of the 575 logic board slowing down memory access. The 6100/60 board runs at 60Mhz.
The bus speed mattered a lot on those early PPC Macs. I remember chipping a PowerBook 3400c/180 motherboard to run at 198 MHz by changing the clock crystal, and just increasing the bus speed from 40 MHz to 44 MHz made it benchmark almost identically to a stock 3400/240 with a 40 MHz bus.
I've been looking forward to this.
How do you unsnap the memory stick to get the board back out?
OMG I see Scotty from StrangeParts in that PCBWay sponsor spot!
So I was right, PPC upgrade! XD
I also instantly noticed the 36MB of ram but you covered that, nice explanation and good to know.
Tough I wanted to see Wolf3D run on it!
Congratulations!
Does the tall stick of ram work in the other ram slots? The way you have it now makes it hard to repair.
10:20 I was just thinking.... you got the stick in by clicking it into place after pushing the board in but now that it is in how did you expect to get the board back out? Is the ram released only with the closest clip?
Probably have to remove the back case to get it back out, but @ActionRetro would have to confirm. Fortunately you can easily remove the whole back case with 4 screws.
@@mikewottle8893 Ahh ok. Makes sense. I didn't know how easy it would be to get to it after the fact.
Now... get the board back out with the ram latched :)
Fabulous!!
Looks like your ppc upgrade card is missing the L2 cache daughter card which clips into those sockets on front of it. I wonder how that would change benchmarks if one was installed. (I think it originally came with it)
your vids makes my saturday better
Is it possible to use the currently-unused 68040 as a sort of RAM organizer? It might be able to, with an extension to Mac OS 8, act as an abstraction and manager for banked memory.
It would be nice to put a full 68040 in there.
I've done it. It's a fun exercise but almost none of the software is written to take advantage of it so you don't see much difference beyond the system telling you it's in there
I think that's the same PowerPC card that was for the Performa/Quadra 630 systems? If so, I had that accelerator, the 66MHz, in my Quadra 630 in the mid nineties 😀 I tended to use the 68040 (which had an FPU) more though as the 66MHz 601 was quite slow for the apps I was running.
Epic video!!!
Does the PPC upgrade have its own RAM soldered on? I see some empty chip locations. If that's the reason for only 36 meg in PPC mode, there's your next upgrade project. Is there a way to install a network card with the PPC upgrade?
Okay, now how is he ever getting that mother board back out? You have to release both tabs on the RAM.
A long prodding tool like a screwdriver, a camera, and a little time.
sometimes to fix monitor geometry, they would add little magnet slugs around the back of the tube (before the choke). They did that at the factory. Make sure you didn't dislodge any or let them rotate, that could cause the whining, and geometry issues. If it never had any, and recapping, etc. doesn't fix the issue, you could try adding one to fix it.
Wow! That is so cool. :)
I've read that all Trinitron crts have a thin horizontal line if you look for it.
I LOVE Macintosh classic!
Did you buy the PowerPC t-shirt with the sticker? Let us know if you find a smaller one online!
What model trackball is that? I’ve never been able to track down an Apple branded Trackball.
That's a Kensington Turbo Mouse, just with an Apple decal
Since the graphics on these old Macs were also driven by the CPU, you should add the MacBench graphics tests to your benchmark suite. Just to see the difference.
You rock dude!
With that Power PC upgrade you just might be able to launch BeOS on it since it uses MacOS as a baseboard to fire up.
is the PPC not a different architecture ? I wouldn't have thought it could boot from the same drive without more trickery
I'm guessing Mac OS 8 has all of the boot files necessary for both, and the processor upgrade control panel sets the correct parameters for the PPC side to be able to boot from it.
I also know that Mac OS 8 was still largely 68k code even when running on PPC. They had extensive emulation and they didn't really improve on that situation much until OS X. So there wasn't really a need to provide two versions of everything - most things were just 68k anyway and emulated
Great video!! Would a Performa 475 also fit instead of the 575? Thanks
No, the logic board on the Performa 475 is a standard board without edge connectors (basically an LC board that had an 040 chip). The LC575 (and LC550) had slide out boards with edge connectors. Other compatible boards (with heavy modifications to the plastics inside the CC case) are the 5x00/6x00 boards.
Question will MacOS 10 work on PPC Color classic mystic?
Nope, needs a PCI Mac architecture.
I own a CC in Switzerland and I'd dream of such beast !
Hum... how are you going to flick the latch to lay the RAM back over to take it out? ;)
Teenage Me Explosions are an entire CZcams genre.
Nice! (Still waiting to see someone brave enuff to go thru a mod of an openpower board in one of the older macs. 😁)
I seem to recall that the Performa 6200 (and possibly the 5400?) used the same connector for the motherboard, but I'm not sure if the rest of the shape would fit in a Color Classic?
I believe those boards are used for the Takky upgrade he referred to. Of course, the boards are larger, so you need to cut out parts of the plastic to make them work.
@@mikewottle8893 I had a power supply board for a project I was working on that was a little too big for its intended use... I took a belt sander to the edges, removing about 12mm. Not sure I'd do that with a computer logic board though... but hey, it's just a 6200...
@@AlfOfAllTradesYou can do it by removing plastic from the case, not the board. But with as brittle as those 90's plastics were, I still wouldn't do it myself.
@@mikewottle8893 Yeah, that's why I'd attack the board before the case :) But honestly I don't think the board would take kindly to it regardless :D I much prefer non-destructive mods anyway. Although... G3 Mystic... Hmmm.
I hope the CC motherboard makes its way into an LC575. Has anybody done this "reverse Mystic" mod before?
You're out here asking the real questions! I so want to see this...
Surely 'Mactober' rolls off the tongue a lot nicer than 'Marchintosh'?
I wonder if the Power Macintosh 5500 motherboard would fit in these CC machines without much modifications.
You could easily attach two switches to the back of your chassis and wire it in to make your vga mod toggleable
is it possible to replace the hardware inside with a raspberry pi or mini pc?
If you find some RAM chips, you can probably increase the memory to 64 just soldering them on. I bet there is some website where someone has done that.
Nice video, colour classic has always interested but disappointed me, I would have like to have owned this one though
Envy your ADB trackball. Next best thing to a trackpad.
Is that tall RAM stick stuck in there forever now? Seems like you no longer have access to the clip that lets it tilt.
Long screwdriver and a steady hand 😂
Check it out here pointing to no link at all. I already watched it but missing the link.
Nice Computer !
Awesomesauce mod!
Won't it be crazy-difficult if you ever want to pull that mobo back out, now that you've clipped that tall RAM stick into place BEHIND the screw nub? I'm assuming you have to release a clip on each side of the RAM stick like the 30/72-pin RAM I've encountered on PC's.
Haha yeah, I can unclip it with a long screwdriver and a lot of patience 😂
@@ActionRetro Probably safer / easier to remove the back case...
Lol that is going to be a pain in the pass to remove the board again, getting the further simm release lever released in side the narrow space.
Will just have to remove the back case. It's just 4 screws and much less difficult than the SE, SE/30, Classic, etc.
But the power pc upgrade says 36 mb of ram?
It apparently can't use the ram in the slots.
trying to get a powermac g5 to run an optical network drive[technically 2 as it is a powerfile C200 that can technically use 2 discs at once] to assist in my organization of disks at least, but I ran into an issue where the firewire bus decided to get a divorce and report no information.
Going to go ahead and try to use an old SIIG firewire card and see if it works, but I still have my blue and white with a 500Mhz G4 upgrade that has 2 firewire/usb combo cards installed and working [ports baby ports] as a backup. Just need the screen to stop corrupting after sleep on that one.
13:40 what happened to this motherboard?
Could one take the monitor from a Color Classic and put it in a regular Mac Classic case? I always hated the look of the Color Classic's case.
No, the color CRT is deeper than the B&W one, and the curve of the front glass is different. Additionally, you're have to do some crazy mods to get the analog and logic boards to fit into the case (assuming you could extend the case to fit the yoke board).
@@mikewottle8893 There are guys that put modern small flat screen monitors in compact macs.
@@auteurfiddler8706 Yeah, clearly a flat panel would fit. I did on in a empty shell I picked up from an estate sale. The original question, though, was putting a Color Classic CRT in a Classic / SE / Plus / etc. shell. The answer is "not without damaging the case".
If you live in Origin then what the PCB Fabrication Plant in Osh Parc.
You put the ram stick in, but how will you take it out? Xd
The 40Mhz transwarp in my Color Classic is very jealous
I had a color classic 2 but unfortunately got abandoned in a quick apartment jump. Regrets!!
use 3d sticker for powerPC it will looks good
But will it stream to twitch?!
asking the real questions
I know that original motherboard is going to LGR lmao.
👀