An accurate overview. I cannot agree more that it really is up to personal preference. I usually let parts and design determine what I choose to use as both options are interesting.
In the case your amp has a solid state rectifier, there are very reliable diodes nowadays. FREDs or even HEXFREDs are a very good replacement choice to improve your tube amp performance.
Thanks so much for the exposition. My opinion: I'm all LPs and all tubes for decades. I've never heard a solid state amp that comes anywhere close to what I get from tubes in the highs, the air, the rhythm, the hall, the fabulous interplay of the high overtones, the attack envelope and etc. Solid state: yuck, boring, artificial, dead. But I have replaced my tube power supplies with carefully designed solid state power supplies: a solid foundation for the tension and release of the music, the sometimes complex array of sounds all intermingling, the rhythm and the punch. A great base on top of which the tubes sing. And yes, I load up on reserve capacitance. I don't care about "vintage." It's all about the music.
I know it's 2 years ago but tubes rectifiers usually have a limit on how much capacitance you can use with it. It's usually from 20uF to 40uF. If you use more, you would have to use a resistance between others capacitor. You can have a choke in the circuit. It will eliminate the ripple even more.
Taking into consideration all the circuit specifications and output requirements into account, both methods of rectification can and are absolutely appropriate and sound amazing. I feel that "modding" an original circuit into a SS or Tube PS, from the original, is where things may go wrong.
Hello. I'm repairing and restoring all kind of electronic equipment (valve and solid state) since the 80's. I would say that if you have older valve type that are directly heated, you would like to use valve rectifiers. Solid state will cause "cathode stripping" and more ripple voltage than valve. Especially with older 2A3, 6A3, 45, and 47 audio output pentodes and 26 drivers. These are relatively rare and you want to preserve them for as long as possible. They can be costly to replace. If you are restoring an old radio or even in a new project, the rectifiers used in these aren't expensive enough to replace the original one with solid state. Also, it will need higher capacity filters and they will likely raise the B+ voltage higher than it's supposed to be and circuit modifications will be needed. It just don't worth it. In newer designs, with "newer" tubes like 12AX7/drivers and EL84 outputs, solid state will do the job fine. Many receiver who dates back to the 60's are already designed with a solid state rectifying circuit but I would replace the germanium diodes with silicone. They are more efficient and reliable. If you still want to use solid state, you would want to use shottky diodes. You will also want to put a resistor about the same value as the rectifiers valve in parallel with the diodes and it will be pretty close. Just watch out for the B+ not to be higher than specified. It will likely cause the power output to redplate and the output transfomers to heat up and it's not good.
there is a response to the player that makes tube rectifiers so desirable for me personally ,it matches my rhythmic attacks . its almost a sweet grind right before the attack ... )
With guitar amplifiers, the tube rectification’s sag characteristics can be a desirable one in the sense that it creates a certain squaking effect with power chords and such.
If you connect a resistor, the resistance of which is close to the internal resistance of a tube rectifier, in series with the SS rectifier, you achieve pretty close those sag characteristics of tube rectifier. Of course, plate voltages must be same to get the same sound.
I might be wrong on this but I once had a Quicksilver preamp that I believe used both solid state and tube . Its power supply capacitance was humongous . Look it up .
I wonder if there are some measured statistics on this question? If not perhaps one could build an valve amplifier with both power supplies, switchable of course, then run a set of performance numbers - noise, distortion and frequency response, and calibrated listening tests with each power supply.
With a Solid State Rectifier circuit you won't have reverse recovery issues (less or no switching noise), with FREDs, HEXFREDs or Schottky diodes (the ones that support high voltage an amperage). Your amp will sound more like it will have a tube rectifier inside, without the Cons!
Well for eg. the 5u4 rec tube heater on account of it´s ribbon Filament structure, has no cathode sleeve to warm up, it heats up pretty quick a second or so. so i dont think cathode Stripping is an issue here.
What about if you run a thermistor after the Bridge rectifier on a solid stage this would help with soft starting your valves, any opinion on it. And give the tube rectifier a more build up of current? By putting it on that end then the front end.
I added a thermistor to my vintage ST-35, at line voltage into the amp, for that reason but also to get the "new" voltage down a volt or 2. Original design line voltage was somewhat lower in 1966 in comparison to todays.
I have three Marshall guitar amps and I prefer solid state rectification. I don't want a spongy sound. I love the quick attack of a solid state rectifier.
Alain Menard yes, there's a way to do it : use a transformer. the output transformers on the tube amp are the most responsible for their "tube sound". i've seen measurements on high quality transformers and they add harmonic at extreme frequencies : bass, treble and even low midrange (which is nice imo). usually the more expensive add less harmonic. but ss amps are already high current, low voltage output so they don't need these. if you have high gain preamp and high gain ss amp, you can add interstage transformers between them to add more harmonic.
Howdy. A Solid State rectifier + large capacitors cause the transformer current to be short timed high spikes. The transformer complex power (VA) needs to be way larger than simply filtered current times filtered voltage (Watts). I recommend the complex power rating to be at least 1,5 times the Watts power. Another aspect is that the power company isn't very happy about spikey currents.
Solid state for funky/Rhythm/chords, Valve rectifier good small amps and "Lead guitar" . Both work well. A good compressor can help if you find your is too bright. Just my opinion from exp. Find out, that's the real fun.
when we talk about tube amp you have to go back to the the old fenders well i know you all want to think they all had tube rectification but leo fender design the fender baseman in fact with solid state rectification in fact the fen twin reverb in th1960s he did that with a lot of the amps he actually build him self (the once people point to be legendary) with a solid state reification leo only build amps for fender till 65 when he got sick and sold the plant i think that all of the other stuff in the amp connection pots resistor type and size grounding points capacitors variation in tolerant color the amp way more the the dc power supply
I’ve had good luck with Weber copper cap solid state rectifiers. Plug right into the tube socket. Works great as you can see in this video: czcams.com/video/cLIOW28RxXo/video.html
Ah yes! The tube vs SS argument...and this is just for the rectifier! Throw in preamp and power amp stages and we can really open a can of worms. Reading the comments it is (as always) apparent that it is a very subjective subject, some like some don't. As an (admittedly shitty) guitar player that has but SS and tube guitar amps it is my opinion that it really all depends on your taste AND the type of music you want to listen to. Some things just don't sound right on a tube amp and conversely some things just don't work as well on solid state. Just my two cents.
Jack Allen I'm new at this. I'm working on a '76? SS EARTH PRODUCER. Bad mystery transistor - Signetics 59-4004-B - Unobtainium. Going to use mj15003? I wish I could try out different sets of trannys, but I can barley afford one good set. (8) x $3~$5. Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Jack Allen Oh yeah, forgot to add that this Amp will be played by an admittedly shitty guitar player, me, stuff like Black Keys- Just Got To Be. -Chunky distorted blues that will "color" my AMPle lack of talent. Thanks again!
Full Wave Recked I am just getting into the repair and modify side of it too, but in my case I am just dealing with tube based amps, I know practically nothing about SS eletronics.
I built a Geartz Hybrid rectifier for my 300B SET amp..... a WE 422A and a couple of Schotky diodes.... best of both worlds
An accurate overview. I cannot agree more that it really is up to personal preference. I usually let parts and design determine what I choose to use as both options are interesting.
Very nice explanation. A topic well worthy of a discussion. To me a tube amplifier with SS rectifiers has the look of missing a tube.
In the case your amp has a solid state rectifier, there are very reliable diodes nowadays. FREDs or even HEXFREDs are a very good replacement choice to improve your tube amp performance.
Nice!! I have a vintage Dynaco ST-35 which was designed with a ST PS and a Bob Latino ST-70 with a tube PS and both sound amazing!!
Thanks so much for the exposition. My opinion: I'm all LPs and all tubes for decades. I've never heard a solid state amp that comes anywhere close to what I get from tubes in the highs, the air, the rhythm, the hall, the fabulous interplay of the high overtones, the attack envelope and etc. Solid state: yuck, boring, artificial, dead. But I have replaced my tube power supplies with carefully designed solid state power supplies: a solid foundation for the tension and release of the music, the sometimes complex array of sounds all intermingling, the rhythm and the punch. A great base on top of which the tubes sing. And yes, I load up on reserve capacitance. I don't care about "vintage." It's all about the music.
I know it's 2 years ago but tubes rectifiers usually have a limit on how much capacitance you can use with it. It's usually from 20uF to 40uF. If you use more, you would have to use a resistance between others capacitor. You can have a choke in the circuit. It will eliminate the ripple even more.
Taking into consideration all the circuit specifications and output requirements into account, both methods of rectification can and are absolutely appropriate and sound amazing. I feel that "modding" an original circuit into a SS or Tube PS, from the original, is where things may go wrong.
Hello. I'm repairing and restoring all kind of electronic equipment (valve and solid state) since the 80's. I would say that if you have older valve type that are directly heated, you would like to use valve rectifiers. Solid state will cause "cathode stripping" and more ripple voltage than valve. Especially with older 2A3, 6A3, 45, and 47 audio output pentodes and 26 drivers. These are relatively rare and you want to preserve them for as long as possible. They can be costly to replace. If you are restoring an old radio or even in a new project, the rectifiers used in these aren't expensive enough to replace the original one with solid state. Also, it will need higher capacity filters and they will likely raise the B+ voltage higher than it's supposed to be and circuit modifications will be needed. It just don't worth it. In newer designs, with "newer" tubes like 12AX7/drivers and EL84 outputs, solid state will do the job fine. Many receiver who dates back to the 60's are already designed with a solid state rectifying circuit but I would replace the germanium diodes with silicone. They are more efficient and reliable. If you still want to use solid state, you would want to use shottky diodes. You will also want to put a resistor about the same value as the rectifiers valve in parallel with the diodes and it will be pretty close. Just watch out for the B+ not to be higher than specified. It will likely cause the power output to redplate and the output transfomers to heat up and it's not good.
there is a response to the player that makes tube rectifiers so desirable for me personally ,it matches my rhythmic attacks . its almost a sweet grind right before the attack ... )
With guitar amplifiers, the tube rectification’s sag characteristics can be a desirable one in the sense that it creates a certain squaking effect with power chords and such.
If you connect a resistor, the resistance of which is close to the internal resistance of a tube rectifier, in series with the SS rectifier, you achieve pretty close those sag characteristics of tube rectifier. Of course, plate voltages must be same to get the same sound.
I might be wrong on this but I once had a Quicksilver preamp that I believe used both solid state and tube . Its power supply capacitance was humongous . Look it up .
What happens if you install a choke after a SS rectifier?
I wonder if there are some measured statistics on this question? If not perhaps one could build an valve amplifier with both power supplies, switchable of course, then run a set of performance numbers - noise, distortion and frequency response, and calibrated listening tests with each power supply.
Do you know where I can get the scamatics of the KLH 100?
First, Lol! Thanks for another great explanation! My vote, solid state with a delay.
There are tons of small radio transformers that are 350vac and 6.3 volts and no 5v so these are great for fender champ amps
With a Solid State Rectifier circuit you won't have reverse recovery issues (less or no switching noise), with FREDs, HEXFREDs or Schottky diodes (the ones that support high voltage an amperage). Your amp will sound more like it will have a tube rectifier inside, without the Cons!
Well for eg. the 5u4 rec tube heater on account of it´s ribbon Filament structure, has no cathode sleeve to warm up, it heats up pretty quick a second or so. so i dont think cathode Stripping is an issue here.
What about if you run a thermistor after the Bridge rectifier on a solid stage this would help with soft starting your valves, any opinion on it. And give the tube rectifier a more build up of current? By putting it on that end then the front end.
I added a thermistor to my vintage ST-35, at line voltage into the amp, for that reason but also to get the "new" voltage down a volt or 2. Original design line voltage was somewhat lower in 1966 in comparison to todays.
I have three Marshall guitar amps and I prefer solid state rectification. I don't want a spongy sound. I love the quick attack of a solid state rectifier.
Would it be possible to replicate the second order harmonics with a solid state solution, maybe with post processing or other method?
Alain Menard yes, there's a way to do it : use a transformer. the output transformers on the tube amp are the most responsible for their "tube sound". i've seen measurements on high quality transformers and they add harmonic at extreme frequencies : bass, treble and even low midrange (which is nice imo). usually the more expensive add less harmonic. but ss amps are already high current, low voltage output so they don't need these. if you have high gain preamp and high gain ss amp, you can add interstage transformers between them to add more harmonic.
Howdy.
A Solid State rectifier + large capacitors cause the transformer current to be short timed high spikes. The transformer complex power (VA) needs to be way larger than simply filtered current times filtered voltage (Watts). I recommend the complex power rating to be at least 1,5 times the Watts power.
Another aspect is that the power company isn't very happy about spikey currents.
Cathode stripping is absolutely true!! In circuits seeing 1000 plus volts.
That may sound crazy, but has anybody tried to build a ss amp with tube rectification?
Eduardo Queiroz won't work as tube amps use high voltage and low current. SS uses low voltage and high current.
Solid state for funky/Rhythm/chords, Valve rectifier good small amps and "Lead guitar" . Both work well. A good compressor can help if you find your is too bright. Just my opinion from exp. Find out, that's the real fun.
when we talk about tube amp you have to go back to the the old fenders well i know you all want to think they all had tube rectification but leo fender design the fender baseman in fact with solid state rectification in fact the fen twin reverb in th1960s he did that with a lot of the amps he actually build him self (the once people point to be legendary) with a solid state reification leo only build amps for fender till 65 when he got sick and sold the plant i think that all of the other stuff in the amp connection pots resistor type and size grounding points capacitors variation in tolerant color the amp way more the the dc power supply
Once the sound leaves the pedalboard - please keep the tubes out of my power path and the diodes out of my signal path. Amen.
I like my 5AR4 nice slow start and is almost the same output as a soild state stay away
Though I am not in tubes, I would never mix both technologies. That would be like putting a diesel engine in a steam locomotive.
I'd love to have an ST70 myself i hear Magnavox copied circuit designs from Dynaco or Marantz
I’ve had good luck with Weber copper cap solid state rectifiers. Plug right into the tube socket. Works great as you can see in this video: czcams.com/video/cLIOW28RxXo/video.html
One other advantage of solid state is that it produces less heat.
Ah yes! The tube vs SS argument...and this is just for the rectifier! Throw in preamp and power amp stages and we can really open a can of worms. Reading the comments it is (as always) apparent that it is a very subjective subject, some like some don't. As an (admittedly shitty) guitar player that has but SS and tube guitar amps it is my opinion that it really all depends on your taste AND the type of music you want to listen to. Some things just don't sound right on a tube amp and conversely some things just don't work as well on solid state. Just my two cents.
Jack Allen I'm new at this. I'm working on a '76? SS EARTH PRODUCER. Bad mystery transistor - Signetics 59-4004-B - Unobtainium. Going to use mj15003? I wish I could try out different sets of trannys, but I can barley afford one good set. (8) x $3~$5. Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Jack Allen Oh yeah, forgot to add that this Amp will be played by an admittedly shitty guitar player, me, stuff like Black Keys- Just Got To Be. -Chunky distorted blues that will "color" my AMPle lack of talent. Thanks again!
Full Wave Recked I am just getting into the repair and modify side of it too, but in my case I am just dealing with tube based amps, I know practically nothing about SS eletronics.
Jack Allen hey Uncle Doug just put out next video!
I am watching as we speak, lol. Thanks!
breakfast of champions: tune your guitar
Tube rectification is the worst. SS rectification is just so, so much better.