The Timeline of Tears of the Kingdom Explained
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2023
- Good time travel, in a Zelda game??
Tears of the Kingdom has an actually consistent time travel story. In this video, I explain it. Enjoy
Check out @VLimit11 's timeline vid: • How does Tears of the ...
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Music:
TotK OST - Nushi Shop
TotK OST - Underground Maze
Ocarina of Time OST - Gerudo Valley
Twilight Princess OST - Faron Woods
Twilight Princess OST - Ordon Village
#tearsofthekingdom #zelda #explained - Hry
![Why Rauru's Kingdom Wasn't FIRST (ft. @wizcatcheslightning ) [TotK THEORY]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gajk1u4Qt20/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Rauru's Kingdom Wasn't FIRST (ft. @wizcatcheslightning ) [TotK THEORY]](/img/tr.png)
One more detail, not only is Ganondorf’s dialogue proof for eternalisim, bust so is the mural, as Zelda’s future (the past of Hyrule) was already written before she actually went back.
But once again, was the mural a premonition or a telling of story?
You KILLED IT on the editing and subtle humor for this one. Kept my attention even after watching every cutscene several times, and I don't think there's much room to argue against your conclusions here, even with how complicated the timeline of this one single game is.
Fantastic video👌
Thanks so much! Appreciate the considerate words and glad to hear it from a Zelda pro
In short, Tears of the Kingdom features self-consistent time travel. When Zelda travels to the past, she's traveling to the past that has already happened. All the things she does to influence the outcome of the Imprisoning War and the future beyond it already happened. Zelda always met Sonia. Rauru always sealed Ganondorf. The Light Dragon always had the Master Sword.
No timeline splits. No contradictions. No paradoxes.
What is is what was, and what happened is what always happened. Changing the past does not and cannot change the future.
It’s kind of cool to think about that if zelda traveled to a time after skyward sword but before all the other games, that would mean that throughout the whole zelda timeline there have two master swords, two Zelda’s, and two ganons all at once
There's still a pretty major flaw in this explanation though. Keep in mind that the events of TotK take place roughly 10 years or so after BotW, where we can clearly see that the massive geoglyphs and the Light Dragon's tears aren't present. If eternalism alone was a complete enough answer to the problem, these would have always been present, yet they only appear after Zelda time travel's during the upheaval, indicating a timeline change that coincides quite closely with the effects of presentism oriented time travel. The contradiction is that the game is trying to pull off both eternalism and presentism at the same time which, as far as I know, isn't possible.
If we are going to maintain causality as we understand it, then the future must always be caused by past events.
To preserve that, but also allow Zelda to travel to the past and start acting as a causal agent (which is essential to the narrative) I think we have to create a timeline split, occurring in the moment that Zelda appears in the past.
There has to be a version of this ancient history where Zelda never arrived, the imprisoning war happened anyway and where Rauru also sacrificed himself to seal Gankndorf, anyway.
Otherwise, the time loop is disconnected from any history of its own, meaning none of those events could be caused by anything (a total disaster logically)
This would be a timeline split that rejoins and both branches have a shared future: the one where Link obtains the master sword and defeats Ganondorf in all his forms
@@user-dh1zg5dq7d There is no split in Totk this is a casual loop that means that nothing that Zelda does in the past changes anything.
My big problem is still the Geoglyphs. The presumed eternalism would have me believe that the tears (and therefore the glyphs) have been there since Zelda first transformed and cried them out (as shown in the one cutscene).
However, the Geoglyphs have clearly not always been there. Not only because they don't appear in Breath of the Wild (same map) but also evidenced by Impa and others verbally saying that these geoglyphs are new and need to be investigated. The whole questline is based around them being new.
However however, the Forgotten Temple has the glyphs marked on an ancient map and wall, as if they have been there since the ancient past when the Light Dragon first appeared.
None of this is consistent.
Maybe they were visible when they first appeared, but since faded. And then they came back to being visible with the recent advent of ancient stuff (upheaval, Ganon gloom, sky ruins appearing, and Light Dragon being visible). I feel like thats consistent enough with the other stuff 'randomly' showing up after time
Considering that entire islands were concealled up in the sky, it's not unreasonable to expect that the geoglyphs/tears were similarly hidden until the event set to trigger the end of that concealment magic, occurred
Great video!
Thanks!
But wouldn't the light dragon mean there are two zeldas until zelda travels back in time?
Great video my only issue to all this timeline talk is that the some of community is looking at this founding of Hyrule as the founding of all of Hyrule and not just Botw Hyrule. it would be weird for sealing Ganondorf to halt his reincarnation cycle later down the line as referenced of the fact that a male Gerudo hasn't been seen in over 10,000 years from Botw but then also a possiblity of being 2 Gonondorfs. i dont think there is any retcons and this is just a self contained jump in time but that bring into question what happened to the world to cause a different or refounding of Hyrule?
Me : god im so tired of the timeline speculation
This video in my feed : * exist*
Me : tell me more
It doesn't seem like eternalism fits, but that might be on purpose. The idea that any explanation will fit or that Nintendo isn't purposefully ensuring that the puzzle pieces don't fit in order to prevent any attempt at the timeline from making sense seems more and more likely at this point. Even if you accept the ridiculous theory that Sonia and Rauru are Hylia's parents, Demise is the first ever instance of calamity Ganon, and that the races devolved between the Zonai's time and Skyward Sword then evolved back to exactly match their zonai era counterparts by the time of BotW, the Light Dragon doesn't appear in any game up to TotK nor does any mention of the zonai unless you follow the Zonai>Minish>Twili theory but that is full of guess work and very little substance.
Great video bro you got a sub from me 💪🏾
Thanks! Happy to hear
I wonder what the mural was before the events began was. Maybe something else.
The temple of time having two gears merge with one. Seems symbolic to your point.
I think it would have been fun if Zelda going back in time slightly distrupted the timeline just enough that it caused a split, with the Sheikah never had created advanced tech, instead having Hyrule always leaning more towards Zonai tech. No Divine Beasts, no Sheikah shrines or towers, and no Champions having to have died piloting said beasts in the previous games.. they could've been alive longer and maybe a couple of them could've became the Sages or something. It would explain the apparent sudden absence of all the Sheikah stuff..
Of course, it would make things slightly messy, but still fun to think about.. that, and i just miss my Champions lol
So, an optional entry?
In terms of the big full Zelda timeline?
This video only goes over Tears as a standalone title. As for where it and Breath of the Wild (and Age of Calamity if you want to include it) fit into the greater timeline, the jury's still out on that one.
@@wutmagna7222 Yeah I defer to V-Limit for that one
@@MadLuigi what if it's both then how time paradox exist I learn that's true
@@MadLuigi be how time-paradox exist that's not a time-loop maybe presentism is what would be explain how people have freewill, the future have many paths
Eternalism: there is no free will, your life is just a movie you’re watching
Oof.
Ok, if you're saying that Zelda was always there in the Past, then, wouldn't that mean that she's the Mother of Zelda who was simply ''Reborn'' into the Royal Family? which would explain when Urbosa states that her dear ''Friend'' called Zelda ''Little Bird'' until she passed away!! But why would Rauru state ''But that was a Future where you never Appeared in this World'' if Zelda Technically was there?
not only did you make a spectacular video, but you also helped me rethink and solve some questions about time travel that i have had since my early childhood by teaching me of eternalism and presentism. thank you
Thanks a ton! Im really happy to have had such an impact and to get to spread such knowledge
Using Faron Woods theme from Twilight Princess in your video 5:59🔥🔥
A masterpiece soundtrack
Lol timeline reminds me of AVGN trying to figure it out back in the day with different timeliness names ha ❤😅
Zelda tries to warn Rauru that they are going to lose the fight against Ganondorf because she saw him in the present before she went back in time. Rauru tells her that that was a timeline where Zelda wasn't there to help out.
Rauru would have to be mistaken in order for eternalism to work.
But like He is wrong, because they lost, they actually got clowned on just like what Zelda said would happen. So her presence there really didn't change anyhting according to what we saw in game before she time traveled.
Nicholas has it right. Rauru mistakenly believes in presentism. Zelda was in fact there to help and they still lost. Rauru might have just been trying to be a good leader and keep morale up, since they still had to fight and seal Ganon to eventually let Link defeat him
I agree with MadLuigi, just because Rauru believes in Presentism, (unknowingly, because who actually thinks about these things?🤷🏻♂️) doesn't mean that's the reality.
Rauru is 100% wrong. How would he know how the past was supposed to happen? Hes either guessing or going off what Zelda said. How does Zelda know how the past went down? All she knows is that the sages fought Ganondorf and he was sealed. She has no idea if she was in the past or not until it happens. Its confirmed single timeline.
Well… he was. Ganondorf know Link’s name and exactly who Zelda is before she goes back in time… because she was there and Rauru told him about Link and the Master Sword.
Edit: Well the video backs this up 😂
This video is great!
It solves the causality loop which the CZcamsr "Thinking At Max Volume" put out when he tried to put TOTK and the events in a timeline.
In his video he "solved" the causality loop by saying there are (infinite) parallel universes.
I have a big problem with that because logically speaking it would mean...
1st there is no true beginning and no true ending to this causality loop. It would just be scaled up to infinite
2nd the Zelda that Link saved isn't "his" Zelda.
A logical answer to such thought experiments/problems isnt supposed to make it worse by introducing new problems.
But with Eternalism, all is solved. Great!
Yeah happy to provide an alternative answer to the standard parallel universe bit
I too believe that the past and future are real. As far as I’ve experienced it, the past has been, and the future is to be, but what the past and future are are relative. In the past, I was destined to write this, in the future, I will have written this, and in the present, I write this. Truly one of the times of all time.
Would you say the Ganon that Link and Zelda saw (and was unsealed) at the beginning of TotK is 1. the Ganon from the original BotW downfall timeline OR 2. the one from the altered past by Zelda?
Because if it's 1, wouldn't that be a paradox since there would be no reason for Ganon to have knowledge about either of them? (Unless the Malice fed him that info)
While the Eternalism angle is highly plausible (and I agree with it to a certain extent), you can't also just dismiss the original downfall timeline & its events. The past in a way was still altered by Zelda which led to a new future (TotK ending).
Maybe Sonia's stone on Ganon did some mumbo-jumbo to correct the irrergularities and let the altered timeline play its course.
Maybe Rauru's stone which Zelda picked up amplified her time power which caused the timetravel to happen in the first place.
i think nintendo purposely decided to make it vague since the main things linked to Zelda (tears, poorah pad, mastersword) only appear after she was sent back in time to prevent debates from happening imo
Thanks for the video ! It solved many issues I had with the story.
I still have 2 questions :
- is Rauru' secret stone duplicated, since Zelda got hers from Rauru's hand ?
- Same question for the master sword : since we see dragon Zelda before even sending the master sword back to the past (we can see her on the first big jump we do at the very beginning), does this mean that there's two master swords ?
Again, thank you for your video. You made me learn about those 2 time concepts :).
The answer would be yes, for a period of time both the Master Sword and Rauru's Secret stone existed twice, with the future versions of them travelling back and being there up until the point came when the "original" versions travelled back to fulfil what had already happened :)
Yup the comment above explains exactly that while there are 2 copies of the master sword the original is the younger version of it while the one being repaired is the older one after it had already gone through years of fighting Ganon and his minions you can say that the master sword is twice as old as the one from Botw once Link gets it in his time same with Rauru's stone
@@AlaiaSkyhawk So, it's also applied to Zelda then : two Zeldas have cohabited at the same moment : the dragon one and hylian one.
I like the idea but I can't wrap my head around it. It feels not logic.
But anyway, I loved it : I was not expecting so much effort on the story by Nintendo. I always played Zelda for the game mechanics.
Best game I ever played (I'm 34).
Thanks for the answers !
is that means that in BOTW we have a second Zelda (dragon version) and a second MasterSword in the upper sky since the beginning in addition of human BOTW zelda and MasterSword in the Korok forest ?
Here’s my question, does this mean that until the master sword is sent back in Tears that there are two at any time, ultimately resulting in a weaker master sword that never stood a chance in actually slaying Ganon before this game?
Thats my theory
If Zelda didn't go back and Rauru didn't yeet link, they both would have died there and bam! bad ending 😅
The only thing I find kinda weird, is how nobody mentions BOTW through TOTK. SPOILER -
When you have that cutscene between the last sage, and Zelda, when she said 'I know the sword has power', I assumed she was going to lead into 'because it whooped the Calamity's ass.'
But....she doesn't. That threw me off a little bit. It's almost as if BOTW has been forgotten....but I wonder then - is it because the time travel shenanigans in TOTK erased it?
But why appear the floating Skyislands and the Lightdragon only after Zelda went into the past? Shouldnt they be already there?
Hab ich auch nicht verstanden wieso
Where was it stated that they were moved into the sky?
I am suspecting that they weren't just moved into the sky but maybe even into a different dimension (shifted out of phase). I mean look at some ruins and rocks from the sky islands that are on the ground. Especially those sticking out of the side of the mountains. You will notice that the surrounding mountain, the non zonai soil, suddenly has some weird pattern.
This is for me an indication that when Zelda went back in time something was triggered to make all the buildings and islands and rocks and soil and etc from the Zonai to become visible again/move them back into their dimension. But by doing so, it occured that 2 objects existed at the same time thus they combined. And that is why non-zonai ground surroinding zonai ground has zonai patterns.
Zelda I think it technically supposed to be there all the time lore-wise (but the game doesn't show tht tru). Islands only come up once Ganon nukes the castle? Or maybe they were always there and came down a bit
@@jonson856 Climb on top of the Great Sky Island's Temple of Time,there is a construct that will give you a lore dump after you do it's side quest.
But how can we find the master sword in botw if zelda has it ?
That was the MS before it went to the past.
The Master Sword in BotW was the (relatively) unbroken Master Sword that wasn't send to the past. During that time there actually were two Master Swords: one in the Korok Forest/with Link once he reawakened and one with the Light Dragon.
The Light Dragon spend all this time high up in the sky behind the cloud barrier, where not even the Great Deku Tree could sense the presence of the other Master Sword. Only after the Upheaval dissipated the cloud barrier (and the Light Dragon flew down) could the Great Deku Tree sense the presence of the Master Sword on Light Dragon.
But how was the master sword given to link in botw if it was with the light dragon?
The downfall issue was solved years ago by aka_Nook as explained in this video. "How does a defeated create a new timeline?" It doesn't. It was Ganondorf putting the stone in front of the spirit temple forcing link to time travel. The world he leaves behind becomes the downfall Era and that's why you need an imprisoning war. It's not defeat in combat it's defeat in time. How many times are you REQUIRED to go back in time in OOT? Only once. To get the gauntlets. That's when the downfall Era was created. @MadLuigi
czcams.com/video/nffFcfCNGYQ/video.html
judging to how it set, it a fixed timeline, anything that happen in the past already happen, if you go to the past and do something, it already happen in the present.
So I don’t think the loop would end right? It would be Zelda and Link find Ganondorf she goes back in time. The events of the past occur and Ganondorf gets sealed and Zelda becomes a dragon. As time goes on we get back to the starting point where Zelda the dragon is still in the sky and the Zelda and link during the beginning meet ganon and she goes back in time again. Only for Zelda to be cured and become not dragon Zelda. But Zelda is still again in the past and becomes a dragon again and thus causes the loop to well loop. It would be more of a circle with a line branching off for when she becomes Hylian Zelda again. I think that is right but this time travel stuff still throws me through a loop. (Heh get it)
does ocarina of time work with eternalism? both games exist in the same universe. next vid?
I still need to fully play OoT lol, but its a great idea!
Different time travel entirely, though.
TOTK Zelda's time travel is what one would expect actual time travel to be.
Link doesn't really travel through time; he just goes into stasis for 7 years, and wakes up 7 years older. Sure, he goes back, but it is a reversal to his pre-stasis existence. Young link doesn't travel 7 years into the future, he just ages 7yrs; and older Link doesn't travel 7 years into the past, he regresses 7yrs.
unless we start the game in the middle of a loop
aka zelda had already gone back in time then started the loop the ENTIRE zelda time line goes by and then this zelda get send to the past completing the loop
so not really explained more there was a zelda and link before
also one small question that it might be in the game i dont know still havent finished and slowly wanting to comit the die because the story hurts my soul
where is Rauru and Sonia child they dont have one YOU WOULD THINK SHOWING THAT CHILD WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WITH OUT ONE HOW IS ZELDA BORN IN THE SAME BLOOD LINE?
so one they have a child is just never shown or two the simple fact that both are reincarnations of hylia counts
this game hurts me in a very deep level
Regardless of which view of time you accept, the future still needs to be caused by the past. To a present observer in the world, they would be indistinguishable.
Eternalism really only makes sense if you are predestined/lack free will to do things.
It can't be true considering it directly conflicts with past Zelda titles that deal with time travel and dimension hopping for that matter.
Ganondorf knowing Link and Zelda really isn't an indication of much considering Ganon has known versions of them beforehand during Skyward sword. The only thing predestined is the general events because of Demise's curse
didn't oot have a type of eternalism? that one npc teahes adult link the song of storms, and then link goes into the past, and teaches that npc the song of storms. that would be eternalism right?
@@voltricity1942The song of storms is something that already existed before ocarina of time and is mentioned in oracle of seasons. It's not like Link created it.
You don't teach the phonogram man in ocarina of time the song. He already knows it. He's just mad that a kid played it and ruined the windmill's tempo
If it was Link, he'd recognize you instantly.
Ganondorf knows them explicitly because of what happened in the past as shown in the game. He quotes about Link based on what Rauru said, and he recognizes Zelda because she fought him. Contradicting past Zelda titles is definitely not a line Nintendo won't cross, so I wouldn't use that as evidence against what I see in game
@@voltricity1942Paradoxes like this are a lot easier to swallow in the song of storms scenario, where it’s just a minor detail in the world and plot. With TotK, the contradictions are central to the plot, so therefore they present bigger problems from a causation standpoint.
@@user-dh1zg5dq7d sure, i just bought it up since the op said that eternalism has never been in zelda (it's also in skyward sword)
I just don't understand how that makes any sense at all. How could ganondorf be down under Hyrule castle if Zelda had yet to assist Rauru in imprisoning him? This is why the only kind of time travel that makes any sense is branching timelines. In the example that you gave if somehow Zelda did something to prevent herself from being born you would have two timelines that are equally true. The original timeline with Zelda and one where it got cut short. If i gave this video a grade it would be an F because linear time travel and predestination never make sny sense. What if Zelda got spooked by ganondorf when he knew her name and ran away? She would have never gone back in time to help rauru thus Ganondorf would not know who Zelda was nor who link is and not be under Hyrule castle.
My brain hurts.
U just ignored the whole point of the video about eternalism
For me i believe in Eternalism and heres a good saying to remember, you can only timetravel to do what you already did.
You esentially create the reality you exist in, every single one of your actions leads to your future no matter how bizarre or bad they are even then i dont think time travel is feasable anyways as youd have to travel not only a distance in time but actual distance to where the earth was during that time period and even if you could pinpoint the location by tracking the earths movements you can exactly track how the galaxy traveled nor can you tell specific coordinates for such a position in the vacuum of space youd also.habe to travel faster than light speed with materials that wont turn you into a fantastic explosion from the force
So then why isn't the light dragon in botw?
in totk the light dragon flies really high. we can likely assume it was above some sort of cloud barrier or wherever the sky islands also were during botw (i say cloud barrier because in botw, if you shoot a dragon it goes up into some sort of cloud portal)
@@voltricity1942 what about the glyphs? Why weren't there any in botw?
@@HillwoodLam that... we don't really have an answer for. the most we get is that they started appearing after the upheaval (same with the sky islands). the best guess we could get is whatever force that was keeping the sky islands hidden before the upheaval was also keeping the geoglyphs hidden
@@voltricity1942 I think it's safer to assume Nintendo just didn't give a crap about the canon and the timeline.
I think the light dragon is always in the "Depths" all along.
-You can see the dragon Always going in and out in the depths.
-Npc said the depths hole open up after hyrule castle floating in the sky
Ganondorf doesn’t recognize Link, Rarau mentioned is name to Ganondorf in one of the memories
Very well-made video and excellent way to explain TotK's time travel (the mural at the beginning proves your point before even Ganon-corpse's words do) buuuuuuuut you don't touch on any of the greater series timeline and seemingly conflicting historical events with TotK covers that I think is what Zelda fans are more confused about.
Considering Rauru says it should have at least happened once without her implies he sealed ganondorf away regardless.
The catalyst however that causes the loop is when Zelda picks up the stone which shifts their timeline into the loop. It's the very thing that amplifies her Time power and sends her back unintentionally. Which triggers all the events up to that point where Ganondorf recognizes them both ( and Link, the swordsman by appearance ).
It also explains why everything is absent in BOTW. The imprisoning war had occurred, that's why Ganondorf was under the castle, it explains why the Calamity that happened. But it isn't until TOTK that the timeline folds on itself, with so much time passing not much has changed between the events.
Altho granted that no one had any recollection of the floating islands. So it might be that both timelines are intertwined.
anyway that's just my theory tho.
My theory is that the hero falls timeline is the original timeline. In this timeline, the totk zelda always comes back during the events of ocarina, rauru (the hero) falls, and she becomes a white dragon. However, she's a white dragon of time and light who possess the triforce and a secret stone, because after the adventures of zelda and the adventures of link, the triforce rests in the monarchs. During her dragonification she loses herself, but she was still in there dreaming. With all her divine powers she's essentially Hylia reborn, and dreams the events of ocarina of time, making them actual reality accidentally. Her own dad was harsh, so she dreams rauru is her dad. Sonia never becomes a sage so she doesn't die to ganon. Link, not Zelda, is the hero of time. But her power to create realities is so strong, that when link travels in time in ocarina, it splits this conjured reality, creating the other 2 timelines. Then link rauru and Sonia, representing courage power and wisdom respectively use the triforce in zelda to return her, also "ending" the other 2 timelines.
In my other comment I said that Eternalism solves the causality loop issue. Or at least it seems to solve it.
But now I have an issue with Eternalism 😂
Does that mean Zelda was always meant or destined to travel back in time?
And does that mean there is not such thing as free will in the Zelda franchise?
I dont know if I'd say no free will or destined. More like its just what she did. And it was always true that she did that
@@MadLuigi I guess I should read a little bit about eternalism haha
Thanks :)
@@jonson856 Yeah sure thing! Im also a free will stan so I might be biased. Some eternalists might say free will isnt real
This timeline works beautifully for BotW and TotK.
But the Age of Calamity split timeline is rushing towards to causality paradox. The timeline for Age of Calamity was identical to the BotW timeline untill Terrako from BotW travelled back before the Calamity started and changed the history. So how does the Imprisoning War happen in the past now that the events that lead into Zelda getting into the past can't happen anymore?
Isn't AoC explicitly not canon/not something that needs to be addressed lorewise? I didn't play it so dont actually know
If you think about it, the Imprisoning War still happened in the past but there was no Sage of Time present during it (also in turn no requests made to the other sages about Link). I would call it as the original downfall timeline which ultimately led to BotW. AoC branches off before the Calamity struck.
In fact, AoC is actually a much better timeline since the ending has the Champions alive and they have the potential to become sages. Also, most of Hyrule is arguably more prepared. The only catch would be how soon will Ganon be unsealed and how the Divine Beasts and Sheikah technology will fare during the upheaval and against gloom. We also don't know if Link would have undergone the trials before any of those happen.
Frankly would love to see an AoC-like game set during the Imprisoning War and you also get to play all the original sages. The ending scene would be the memory in TotK,,
Don’t worry no spoilers
definitely spoilers