Hikaru Nakamura gives proof Hans Niemann cheated vs Magnus Carlsen
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GMHikaru Nakamura reacts to a video providing evidence that Hans Niemann cheated against Magnus Carlsen since he has already done that before, as many of his games are 100% accurate with the engine, which is something even Magnus Carlsen has never done.
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@streamx3m In the top panel it says Black = 100%, which was Hans Niemann. His opponent was actually playing Stockfish.
@Ali Beatriz Hanna added it, thanks for telling.
Where could i find about the methods/technicues, that would be realistically possible for cheating in a tournament? I mean like, one has to be able to send & receive info, so what kind of technology are we talking about here..?
Forget chess - come and watch me play a better game where you cannot use robots to help you cheat - because they aren't as good at humans at the game. What is this game - it's called bridge - a far superior game than chess: czcams.com/users/johnworf
Hans Niemann cheats using a molded denture with a vibrator, battery, and receiver in it.
There are two sets of vibration. The first set determines the rank and file of WHAT piece he is to move, and the second set of vibrations
determine WHERE he is to move the piece of material. He is literally lying through his teeth when he is competing.
FYI. Just thought you ought to know.
Remember, hans did not cheat twice, he was caught twice cheating..
Ozark's del's story
Then he is brilliant cheater. I would advice him retire, and write his story in book.
At least
It was more then two Times. He speaked that he had to pay the rent and used to win prizes and to stream. I think that two Times is not enough to pay rents
Very well said.
Congratulations to the guy who held 45 moves against stockfish
They should go back and give an award to that poor guy 🤣
I mean, yeah. Even if Hans didn't cheat. You've gotta wonder how someone survived 45 top engine moves in a row.
😂😂😂
Maybe cheater vs cheater just Hans used a better computer
It was probably more due to opening, as engines play some positions in a very slow way. How long you survive depends more on the opening and position type, but how much you are able to fight back depends on ability.
Went from a recognized cheater to reflecting on himself and managing to play a 45 move 100% accuracy match. A truly inspiring and motivational rags to riches story
😄
He didn't cheat you mor*ons, you're just jealous because he is superior to you in every way
@Elijah S. if you were put under a fraction of the pressure now being mounted on hans you would probably be curled up crying in bed, and suffering emotional shock and trauma for the rest of your life. And thus your opinion is void
@@plantedbasedman9845 All this "smart" yosha and "gambit man" nonsense -- overturned very simply by a cold and simple logic...
"ChessBase says not to use "Let's Check" for cheat detection."
"First order to clarify is how a move gets classified as 100%.
With Lets Check every move is either 100% or 0%. If any engine used to analyze the position has the move chosen by the player as its top choice then the move is a 100% move.
If all moves in the entire game fit as the top choice of any of the engines used then you have a 100% game.
"Let's Check" is a cloud function that pools and shares analysis among everyone who views a specific game/position.
If 100 different people use the "Lets Check" function on one of Niemann's games and they are all using different engines then every move Niemann plays gets compared to 100 different engine top choices.
Because of all the detectives who have gone through Hans' games there are literally more than 100 engines used in the analysis so far.
THIS MAKES THE 100% SCORES COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT !
The weakest engine I spotted as part of the analysis is Fritz 6, an engine from 1999. (If you go to Yosha's video at 14:10, move 23, you can see this with your own eyes).
If you had engines ranging in strength from fritz 6 to Stockfish 15 analyzing other top players games then you'd find many more 100% games. Problem is you don't have hundreds of vigilantes going through these other games with older and weaker engines as you do with Niemann's games."
"If you're talking about Hans cheating during the Sinquefield Cup, what people are calling evidence is any of misconstrued, inapplicable, weak or just silly. Beyond that, there are credible sources saying there is no cheat detection evidence of Hans cheating OTB, but all the Hans haters and Magnus worshippers just discount that information."
"As a cheat detection tool (not what it was designed for) it suffers from a dangerous positive feedback loop from suspicion to guilt.
As a suspicion arises, more users target the suspect game for analysis and this will tend to increase the number of different engines offering their analysis, in turn this increases the numbers of potential move matches.
80% could rise to 90% and then 100% in a matter of days. The greater the number of observers the higher the magic guilt number becomes."
GM and Economics Prof David Smerdon on the risks of using Chessbase's Lets Check as cheat detection
czcams.com/video/QiHHSZfoJ0A/video.html
Kenneth Regan's analysis
cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/chess/fidelity/data/Niemann/
@@aaronmarchand999 the only one curling in his bed is hans when his ass beads mulfunction
I don't know if this story is true, but... I once heard Hans was caught by his girlfriend with another woman, even though his moves were 100 % accurate. As he was caught in the act of cheating and the girlfriend was asking what on Earth he was doing, he simply replied: "Well, I think the position speaks for itself."
lol
this dude is trying so hard to be funny
The truth hurts
@@anewhopedawn6676OMGGG YOUR SO FUNNYYYY🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well if he had not mated with 100% accuracy, his gf might’ve not realized he was cheating
On average for 5 tournaments in a row, Hans nieman played better than Bobby Fischer, Magnus Carlsen and Gary Kasparov, all at their best. Hans Nieman, the kid who had to cheat to win just 2 years ago is now a chess genius? Wow
Keep in mind Carlsen, Kasparov and Fischer were all practically unbeaten in their younger years by their competitors. The only ones who beat them were the GMs and World champions lmao. Fischer was an exception given how corrupt Chess and whats now Russia was in the soviet era.
Pretty unbelievable! He's the main character for sure
But how come he hasn't won a tournament title if he played better for 5 tournaments in a row? Sorry I dont' have good chess history. But he hasn't won anything it doesn't make sense.
Yup
Cheaters never win.... o wait they do lol lol
Hans doesn't understand the positions, so when asked about them he just says, "chess speaks for itself".
yes... this is very ridiculous, people keep excusing his behaviour because he's a awkward kid or whatever but i'm pretty sure he just doesn't understand the moves he makes cus the engine is the one thinking for him...
@@aduhaneh1057 To be fair, I'd be fairly awkward and distracted in an interview too if I had beads in
*I've put hundreds of chess pieces in my ears and I still have not heard a single pieces speak for itself.*
@@Zeromus725 *It malfunctioned and wouldn't stop buzzing even though the game ended several hours ago.*
Thats another think that makes catching cheaters so hard. GM can easily play their own moves and then swtich to engine when the position gets tougher
the problem with Hans is not only that right away after the game he's unable to argue his decisions during the game by long variants (as all elite GMs do), but also the fact that he has no track of achievements in youth tournaments in any age group. Again - unlike all other 2700 GMs. Just appeared from nowhere
he also has a very crappy personality and that doesn't help at all, the "chess speak for itself" line is something only an imbeciles or overly prideful idiot would ever say after beating the world champion in the discipline they cherish.
The unwillingness or inability to do high-level analysis in the post-mortems is to me the absolute tell. It's the emperor not wearing any clothes. I think he and Hikaru should be placed and televised in the same room going over one of these stunning improbable victories; it would make matters all too obvious.
@@AB-dd4jz Crappy personality is not a criterium for evaluating the strengthof a chessplayer. Botvinnik, Fischer, Kasparov were not so pleasant personalities too. Kasparov even was showing his contempt for the opponent and for his moves during the game making mocking expressions on his face.
@@tadcotadco6344 True but both of those guys had some commendability to them. It's not that hes a jerk that matters it's that hes a sniveling lol. Hard to put it in words but he's got the princeling undeserved superiority thing going on, and it really comes through in a very beta package.
@@tadcotadco6344 not what they mean, if it was just crappy personality, Neimann would be snide and take opportunity to do witty comments on his moves, or show off. He’s just incredibly vague, even when the pressure for him to be descriptive is on, it just sounds like he tries to grasp at straws reactively at what he’s being asked, as if he just watched the game and not actually played it himself.
My favorite Niemann moment was when he said ,"It's chessin time." And then the chess spoke for itself.
"The cheating speaks for itself."
-probably Hans Niemann
Hans cheats for himself
seethe and cope!
niice!!
@@olie567 e-tough 4chanist
There is no rule against vibrating anaal beads you mor*on, he didn't cheat
Niemann is really becoming the chess player of all time. My favorite match of his was when he said, "It's Niemann time" and crushed Magnus Carlsen on move 2.
It was a great second move. Magnus knew he was beaten.
😂😂😂
Magnus should not have thrown that game, changing the tournament standings and affecting any betting- it was dishonest and unethical and arrogant.
@@mizofan Don't bet. Simple.
I remember this game Magnus played the queen's gambit decline : resign variation
Let's take a moment to appreciate the opponent that standed 45 moves against stockfish
Haha exactly! man was fighting for his life
you know this isn't 100% 45 moves with 1 engine right? These were analysed with multiple engines that disagree between themselves on his moves but if any lower level engine suggest what is even a complete inaccuracy to other engines it still gets a match so you get that 100% anyway, if you run 20 fucking engines from different levels and depth in all top gm games you would get a lot of "100%" games also
@@arthures- Then why other players (examined by these same engines) don't have the same amount of 100% games as Hans ?
@@itrig7679 are you really sure they used the same method with all games by other top gms or you're just assuming that without knowing? I don't know where you saw that but I will be glad if someone does it and proves this to be the case
@D Dragi you're assuming they used just top level recent engines, 30 moves deep there were moves hans plays in these games that top level engines think as inaccuracies, after 30 moves with that many different engines if it's in the best games of a good grandmaster where they make good moves throughout all game there is probably at least one engine that would suggest a move they played.
Hans is the O.J Simpson of chess. Everyone knows he is guilty but nobody can prove it.
I mean, this is pretty damn solid proof tbh.
Bad analogy. One killed a human being another accused of cheating against a world champion with no proof
@@leerobbo92 There is literally 0 proof
@@daanardon3586 Apart from the mountain of statistical analysis showing massive outliers compared to his peers, comparable with those previously found guilty of cheating?
Stats don't lie. They can be manipulated, but in this case when you've got a massive outlier of 100% accurate games, it's blindingly obvious what's going on.
Too early to make the comparison. Both were proven guilty, but OJ got away with it. We'll see if anything happens to hans.
Magnus only had 3 100% games in a 20 year career. Niemann had those in the last 2 years😂😂😂
So you are saying the true chess champion of the world is Hans! I get it! LOL
and yet he still struggling in rapid chess
@@llotrf And beach chess because the sand gets in his eyes.
@@andrewmoonbeam321 and water gets into his strange device that won't stop buzzing for some reason
holy shit
I was on the “there’s no proof”/“let’s not accuse Hans until there’s adequate evidence” train but this is definitely more than enough. The odds of Hans just naturally being this good is almost 0.
What seems most needing clarification here is to what extent do these suspicious games overlap with periods where Hans had already admitted to cheating. If they were all online games during the periods where Hans already admitted cheating then, lol, what we're being shown here, I guess, is basically how it is possible to spot where Hans was cheating for practically every move, rather than just at one or two critical junctures 😂
(but not showing us anything that hasn't already been admitted). On the other hand, if Hans is claiming he wasn't cheating for these suspicious games, then ya, maybe he should get a PET or NMRI head scan or something, just to make sure there aren't any implants in there that poor Hans might not know about... assuming, of course, that Hans has no objections. 😬
The odds are negative
The odds of anyone being this good is 0.
If he just started playing then ot could be a genius just starting but he's been around for a while doing mediocre, and he has cheated before. So of course...
@@conforzo just starting or not, playing 45 moves at 100% accuracy and having multiple 100% accuracy games is more inhuman than genius.
I thought they were having a conversation until Hikaru paused the video lol.
This also truly reveals how great Fischer and Kasparov were. They were at or above Magnus's best play. But Magnus has the advantage of studying the best moves by Stockfish. He gets to see the lines. Fischer and Kasparov had to wait decades for something like Stockfish 15 to be invented. They didn't have that crutch. They were basically playing the best possible machine chess without any machines (at the time) to verify it. That's why these two are the greatest ever.
wrong. The opponents of Magnus , all are studying the games with Stockfish while the Opponents of Casparov and Fisher did not.
@@Levo_D_Angelo That's my point dumb dumb. Kasparov and Fischer played the best engine moves before there were engines.
@@Levo_D_Angelo thank you. That makes magnus's opponents greater than what Fischer and Kasparov had to endure.
@@apimpnamedslickback5936 in fact, it makes today's chess a much different game as it was in their time. Much more memory involved. I remember an interview of GM Alexander Grischuk stating he would not have chosen to be a professional chess player if he had known earlier how the game would evolve.
@@Levo_D_Angelo ratings only reflect relative performance, not objective accuracy. If anything, it's harder to be as dominant today, since chess engines have kind of leveled the playing field (you no longer need to work for hours, or have a big team of seconds just to find a refutation of an idea).
He studied so hard during the pandemic that he became the best player un history
Or maybe he went fishing and he catched and ate stockfish
Unlike other chessplayers who spent their time in the pandemic learning macrame knots.
@@KvS1248 i will explain. Fishes have a lot of omega 3's , it's actually the best source of it. The human brain is mainly made out of fats( omega 3 fats) so because he ate a lot of fishes like stacks of fish, his brain grew and he became a genius, simple
🤣
And developed a stupid accent
Math speaks for itself
*statistics speak for itself but yeah, the numbers tell a helluva story.
Never thought it can be counting like in Casino' when they counting the cards's?! How it could be possible?!🤔
@@darkhorse2reign It is part of mathematics. I guess everything is kinda part of mathematics or a lot of things.
@@dengai9977 // These statistics tell a different story. By the way, I sure hope Magnus didnt base his suspicions on one source vs a PANEL of sources some including dissenting opinions.
czcams.com/video/MO6FothVL58/video.html
Magnus is an EXPERT at chess. He may or may not be an expert in life or good sense. We all have to suspend our judgement until PROPER investigation is done vs the internet jury.
@@darkhorse2reign
having opinion and
making statement based upon
certain facts
is perfectly allowed .
it's called
freedom of expression.
100% engine accuracy for 45 move game means Hans didn't play a single move that was worse or better than the move Stockfish suggested at that time for 45 moves straight. Even if a perfect chess player existed there wouldn't be 100% correlation for 45 moves because stockfish isn't actually perfect.
Exactly. Alphazero destroyed stockfish.
@@S3IIL3CT Late news lol. Lc0 has already been proven to be a much superior version of AlphaZero (Although AlphaZero was never open sourced, the params were released a few years ago, and Lc0 was already better by then). Stockfish is slightly better than Lc0 as of now. Also, some of Hans’s games has been analyzed against 30+ different engines. Most games are analyzed against about 2 or 3. The more engines you compare it with, the more likely that Han’s move will match one of the engine’s move. Engine accuracy is a much fairer metric, but even that has many issues.
It would make more sense to put extreme restrictions for in-person tournaments. Without that practically no evidence exists. Also, the site that the video showed explicitly said to not use it to determine cheating, only a lack of cheating.
I think there’s a pretty good chance that Hans is cheating, but you can’t start accusations without sufficient evidence to back it up.
@@SolaSky so much this. i think yoshas video is not only of horrendous production quality but also extremely misleading. its kind of worrying that this video is so widely referenced when it seems like not much thought was put into it and it was obviously made not as an attempt to research, but to convict someone. Even Hikarus chat goes to point out several inaccuracies.
As an American, I can say, if anyone were to cheat at the highest levels of chess, it WOULD be an American.
I really cant wrapped my head around a 45 move 100% accuracy chess..
Wasn’t to hard to catch him cheating. He was looking at magnus’ pieces the entire time!
Hans niemann will go down as the greatest chess player ever, surpassing stockfish
More like "Hans will go down in history as the only guy who can get stronger and match stockfish's accuracy every time it updates"
Stock fish literally crying and shaking rn
Actually if he surpassed Stockfish, he would actually get less than 100% correlation to it. The problem with this is that he's going 45 moves playing the perfect move that Stockfish recommends every single time, even though it's fully possible Stockfish doesn't even recommend the theoretical best move in the game
@@monkeylemur Those 23 games where Hans only scored 90% are actually Hans playing perfectly and stockfish recommending inaccuracies.
@@organizerbmo more like vibrating......
I think a fair amount of people are slightly missing the purpose of cheating at this level. It's not so much to win numerous tournaments since that would only put the spotlight on the individual to an even greater degree, rather it's to score ELO points which gets you invited to the top events thus putting more bank in your bank. The smart cheater will stop short of winning; choosing rather to play competitive enough to be invited to all the big events, cashing in all the way.
We should all put more bank in our bank
Well has anyone thought about the sports betting? You could make a fortune betting on yourself against a better opponent.
@@lfvonarx how about betting on yourself losing to a lesser component? isn't that easier?
A smart cheater would probably not try to win as black against Magnus.
@@RyuQ Which explains why I don't think he's very good at it. The smart, successful ones avoid making headlines.
Unfortunately one of the parts that got skipped over in this cut of the video was the part where the FM roasts Hans for the 43 move perfect game saying “congratulations to his opponent for surviving this long”
hi, do you know the name of the person on the bottom of the video? I am trying to find the original video.
@@EdelyGomesHikari Nakamura.He have CZcams channel GMHikaru
@@Jk-qx7gm Let me ask you something. Do you have any sort of useful skills or is it just hiding behing fakes on the internet?
You might be projecting the unworthiness.
Dr. Ken Regan analyzed Hans Nieman's games over the last 2 years and found no evidence of cheating. Dr. Ken Regan is the world of authority on cheating detection in chess. More can be learned here:
czcams.com/video/MO6FothVL58/video.html&ab_channel=Chess%26Tech
"Stockfish speaks for itself"
- Hans Niemann Probably
Sounds like half you guys are jealous. Zero evidence, just seething
@@SmokeBreak69 Do you know how hard that is? Do you see Feller on the top of the list at 98% correlation. They have him there because he was a cheater that got caught and even he couldn't get 100%. They caught him because he (or the person giving him moves) left his phone on someone's desk and someone saw him get a text that said "keep feeding him moves." Sorry, but having 100 percent accuracy on a 45 move game is humanly impossible. If you want proof we will put you first in line to cavity search Niemann at his next event (if he ever had one). But who knows you might be so far up his ass right now you could let us know what is up there?
@@gpcarnage4881 sounds like copium to me
@@gpcarnage4881 100% accuracy is extremely different from 100% engine correlation. She was using some extremely obscure or outdated engines, and in order to get to a 100% correlation they just have to have one engine that has Hans’ move in top 3 or top 1, she didn’t explain that very clearly. A redditor ran that same “100%” game vs Cornette with only the top moves of newest versions of top 5 engines and got a result of him getting 70%. It seems Yosha is just forcing the 100% on his games. “Oh here’s a 70%, not good enough, there must be some engine that has Hans’ moves on their top 3, let’s add that in, great it’s now at 76, let’s add more in!”
For example, if you go to lichess database and in just Yosha's first 100% game of Hans vs Cornette, Lichess found an inaccuracy. And this inaccuracy was ignored because in one of the engines used by Yosha it would be a top 1/2/3 move. In his second "100%" game vs Woo Lichess found 2 inaccuracies and 1 mistake. 3rd vs Soto he had a blunder do I need to continue? So yeah it is impossible because it didn't happen.
@@SmokeBreak69 „nO eVidEncE“ 🤡 imagine still defending a cheater
Magnus has said in his statement that Hans was not even serious during critical and important moves and he didn't have any focussed concentration during some critical moves. If a world champ has this observation, then there is definitely something fishy 🙌
Pun intended
Magnus needs to change his diaper with all this crying
Stockfishy? 🤨🤨
@@Omegaphats L?
@@andremarques1088 L?
Hikaru in his very diplomatic way saying "trust me, bro, you are not that guy"
45 moves at 100% accuracy = Hans Niemann
20 consecutive winning streak at 72% accuracy = Bobby Fischer (Also has never had 100% accuracy in any game)
it's statistically very unlikely that hans is that much better but it's not enough to prove that he cheat
@@MegaUnwetter It wasn't just one game. Hans not only has had previous history of cheating, but the games he cheated on and some other games he had a 100% engine accuracy with over 35 moves. If for some odd reason logic doesn't convince you, the chess player with the most rating in history, also the current world chess champion, Magnus Carlsen, has accused Hans of cheating. Maybe that should convince you? If not, you're beyond convincing and definitely are Hans's simp.
@@MegaUnwetter Then it definitely should be enough to prove that he is the player with the single best performance record in history by a mile) Kind of like someone just running 100m in under 5 sec)
@@rexsthegreat22 saying this in the court won't win you the case.
I could be misunderstanding, but I don’t think this is accuracy. I’m 1400 and play games at >95% once every 20 or so games. I think this algorithm determines how much someone plays like a computer.
“better than Sebastian when he was cheating” I’m dead lmaooo
I might be wrong, but I think he also said the probability of getting a result like this in five consecutive tournaments is one out of 170,000, which is essentially impossible without cheating
In the updated clip, its only 1:1700, but still crazy odds
1 in 170000 is not that hard
@@wnsjimbo2863 the odds of you ever having taken a statistics class is 1 in 170,000. That’s .0005% chance. It’s absurdly unlikely.
And something being “technicallly possible” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t doubt it. That’s braindead logic
Magnus carlsen 1 game at 100%, Nieman 11. Magnus carlsen 3 games over 90% Nieman 33 games. Come on
nieman is just better. magnus is washed up like Joe biden. Should just retire and leave the really leading to Donald Trump! our country was in a better state when he was at the helms.
@@irishkniferd9837 you are seriously deluded if this ain't some sick attempt at some kinda humour
@@irishkniferd9837 looks like someone took the bait. get him tiger
@@Mazo_Qo sick em Fido!!!!
Hans Niemann is a generational talent let's face it, his chess speaks for itself
So 45 moves with 100% accuracy and the professor said his model didnt find any hans games suspicious??
The prof used some old stock fish so useless analysis
Look at this game, white forced black to play the only move - "oh, he is cheating! Didn't blunder mate in two, and even saw the pin! Impossible, that's a 15000 or a cheater"
The professor algo includes all cumulative games not singular outliers, which is a flaw because Hans may not have cheated in every game. His algo is more conservative than the analysis shown in this video
@@ndnd7614 I rather trust the professor. Because you need to factor a new genius coming onto the scene. Imagine in the future true geniuses are getting culled from the game because their genius was just too amazing for people to accept was possible. Think about it imagine Magnus wasn't around and suddenly he came on the scene everyone would think he is cheating too.
@@2DarkHorizon see , magnus' rise was steady . He didnt jump from 2700 to 2880 in 2 yrs
Wtf is that thing
0:47 subtitles 💀😭
Two of the best winning steaks in all of chess history, Bobby Fischer's streak and Caruana's steak getting destroyed by a 19 year old who was just an IM not long ago. Things just don't work like that. Completely unnatural
Correct his 200-300 Elo point rise in under 2 years is I am afraid suspicious itself. Being a relatively weak IM now due to age I feel expert enough to comment that Hans Niemann in my opinion isn’t honest
All you need is this video and then you ask “so how does someone this good at chess analyse the game?” Then cut to the interview where they ask him about his prep for Magnus and he says “you know what it was a miracle, I checked that exact move that morning when I woke up!”
Someone who is this good at chess at the least should have an in-depth and nuanced analysis of the game and how they go about their strategy
Also he may say that each time he got a 100% ai correlation game it was a miracle as he prepared the line the day before? So that would be like a dozen of miracles this year? Damn this guy TRULY is lucky!
Why bother analyzing your moves? The chess speaks for itself.
Never saw a chess master not willing to analyze their games. Most seem more than happy to do it when asked. The only reason not to is because he wasn't doing the analyzing during the game. Which explains why Carlsen said that during key points of the game niemann seemed inattentive. Why concern yourself with tough positions when the computer does the thinking.
this is so true, i just saw a Vasili Ivanchuk post game interview and wow, it is so evident when someone know what they are talking about
@@panelo01 can you link the interview please? I was exactly wondering maybe some moves are just instinct like Tal or Chucky but I never had the chance to see an interview after those games.
Also think of the bias in the data when Hikaru mentions 20 moves not being that long of a game… if Hans is engine matching, that is likely to make the games shorter, because the opponent is going to get crushed under the weight of computer level moves quicker
That’s why in the 40 something move game, the lady congratulates the person for surviving that many moves. It’s not unheard of for GMs to last long against engines.
If anything it’s more suspicious for Hans to have THAT many moves at 100% accuracy, especially when some moves have no point like king b7 in the video.
Hans has better games in 3 years than top players in their entire careers
I'm sure if you plot a distribution of Hans' games, you will find it is bimodal. A normal curve with who he is naturally, and a second curve at the high end when he cheats.
Would be interesting to see!
Too bad chess figures and officials don't seem to care about actual empirical evidence though, and instead just comparing how he plays to how some other person played 50 years ago or talking about Magnus like he's a deity
That's a very good point.
That just means there is something altering his performance, not necessarily cheating.
@@bradlasalle2888 if you use a different engine his correlation lowers. if you use a different engine on bobby fischer he has 7, 100% games in his 20 game win streak. this analysis is cherry picking. it doesn't really prove anything.
If aliens come to earth with their advanced technology, I don't think they can play ten games of chess with 100% accuracy
If their tech was truly advanced, their beads would be undetectable and comfy.
They could achieve 100 accuracy with anal beads lol
@@GeneticallyEngineeredCatgirls bruh 🤣
Well yeah silly, aliens don't know how to play chess
@@NateCooper111 so you're saying aliens couldn't simply take chess lessons from Dlugy like every one else
100% accurate with chess engine level for many games? What? That is 100% cheating without a doubt.
after getting caught cheating 2 years ago now he became a world genius, damn, impressive :)
*Hans- "The chess speaks for itself". Yes, and the chess pieces are saying you're a cheater.*
I would have to conclude that the reality is one of two things: Hans has risen to a level of accuracy in certain games that even Magnus himself cannot reach, or there was assistance from some kind of high tech device communicating 100% perfect engine level moves.
HANS HAD GOOD GAMES, because reality is that everyone has good games and bad games. If Hans cheated, he would’ve won the most recent tournament - but no. He’s human, and had fortunate and well-played games, where he’s accused instead of praised. Sad.
@@Theodore_VII I'm no chess expert but how do you explain that he had more 100% games that Magnus in a far shorter period of time? One explanation is maybe that he is working with chess AI more than Magnus. Another could be that he is cheating and with a record of cheating it's quite obvious why people would conclude that he probably is.
@@formulaic78 easy. Hans is just better than magnus. Magnus is a crybaby who can’t accept defeat.🤪🤪
@@Theodore_VII this is a copium filled statement, Yes people have good and bad games you do not however go from playing literally better than everyone else to consistently getting shit on.
@@Theodore_VII But no one else gets "good games" the same way he does. He will play a perfect game against a strong player then suddenly "forget" how to play well against a worse player. Makes you wonder whether he cheats in some games to make 30-40 perfect moves then doesn't cheat in other games in order to not be as suspicious. Luck doesn't explain such strange results in a skill based game that he doesn't explain well
As I understand it, the checking tool on Chessbase allows multiple engines, or versions of engines, or different depths to be selected. No human should be able to score 100% (excluding very short games) because the "opinion" of the engine(s) will vary - slightly - over time or with parameters chosen for an analysis.
Everyone else is trying to catch up and after analyzing for weeks are seeing strange implausible numbers for Hans... Magnus spots it in one or two games.
Never doubted Magnus for a second
He's a cry baby!
thats not a good thing :/
@@oriondx72 you're projecting. Don't cry.
@@eatingyoshi4403 nah dude, trusting the known cheater is a good thing. For *sure*
@@donquixote8462 trusting without evidence is good. Let us destroy the court of law, and deem guilty all those who have pending cases on them
45 moves with 100% doesn't make any sense. The opponent must've used an engine too to survive that long.
Ain't the first 10ish mostly theory and prep work?
2500+ elo probably can
True theres no way anyone could survive for 45 moves against the engine that data seems bs
@@MuhammadKharismawan The software doesn't take theory into its analysis.
@@polarbear9672 but it does invalidates results that has too few moves/ games with mostly theory in it.
You forgot to include the clip from the exact same stream where Hikaru checks one of his own games and it's 100% engine match.
Thank you! I was waiting for this! 100% games are much more likely in matches where your opponent plays poorly, magus was feeling the pressure of his clock and made a few questionable moves, putting him on the defense and costing him the match.
Honestly I think he's just being a drama queen over losing to someone of such low rank
At first , I felt that Hans Niemann deserved second chance, he is a talented young rising star, but after those statistical facts in this video about his extraordinary accuracy percentage numbers that way above Fischer, Kasparov and Carlsen on their prime times, …. even though there are no evidence so far, it is hard to believe that he is not cheating
if you lasted 38 moves against 100% play accuracy then you are actually really really good defender
Probably a GM or something...
100% accurate in one short 12 move game is one thing but 100% accurate in a series of games including one consisting of 45 moves AND playing better than Bobby Fischer when Fischer was at his best is not even close to believable. The conclusion is obvious. FIDE needs to step in as competitive chess is dead until this is resolved.
Hans is stockfish himself, the greatest chess player/engine. The reason why there is variance in his play whereby he finishes lasts in tournament is due to malfunctioning of the system. Sometimes, the human anus can only handle that much vibration.
@@hqy2295 XDDDD
you know this isn't 100% 45 moves with 1 engine right? These were analysed with multiple engines that disagree between themselves on his moves but if any lower level engine suggest what is even a complete inaccuracy to other engines it still gets a match so you get that 100% anyway, if you run 20 fucking engines from different levels and depth in all top gm games you would get a lot of "100%" games also
@@arthures- that’s even worse.
@@sashirmunoz3780 I don't think you quite understood what that means, if for example I use a customized engine that considers completely blundering my queen for no reason a top level move it would still count towards the 100% engine correlation in a game where that move is played.
I love how madly incredulous Hikaru is 🤣
Each chess player has a style like a writer. It’s like when you read you favorite author, you know the their tone and writing style. If the tone style deviates from norm then you know, there is certainly cheating. Plus he has hard explaining his moves
The explanation why Fischer's games never "reach" 100% is that a move of Fischer on move 14 in a 1960 game was a novelty at the time and gave him the upper hand, but engines analyse it with 60 years theory development. Better lines in most cases were most probably found, so the moves "seem" inferior now.
Incidentally, even in his famous game with the Q-sac vs Byrne I think he missed a quicker mate close to the end, so even this game doesn't reach 100%...
But how do you explain that for all of the best players on the planet today? Magnus knows better than anyone all of that theory and still 3 100% games in 20 years. The same is true to the other guys in the top 10 today (who are pretty much about the guys who know more about modern theory). The problem is that Hans had in 2 years the same amount of 100% that Magnus had in 20. Even though Hans is obviously a much weaker player.
60 years analysis? Alpha Zero has no theory and was betten than a Stockfish version after only 4 hours training with itself
Makes no sense as AI’s doesn’t use human theory, they read the best possible moves regardless of theory or not. Bobby Fischers moves weren’t outdated cause there is nothing to outdate, they just weren’t that good compared to Hans
Inaccuracy in terms of choosing the longer mate is irrelevant. Fischer wasn't under any obligation to find the quickest possible one. Checkmate is checkmate. That's one of multiple reasons why those calculated accuracy levels should be taken with a grain of salt. And if someone misses a forced mate completely, how much penalty should you attribute to this? Any number or factor you can come up with is completely arbitrary. Checkmate is essentially worth infinity.
@@vibovitold of course, but the point is if this game was examined and was 100% accuracy until this move, it would lose the say "100% accuracy" prize, just because he could mate in 2 and instead mated in 3. The engine would count it as not choosing the best possible move.
It's only this, and definitely not blaming Fischer or trying to diminish the beauty of the game.
Yeah, I am going to have to lean towards cheating...
Honestly I find it baffling that just because someone has achieved GM they’re rid of all temptation as a human being? It seems more likely they would be even more tempted, look at how major sports have body enhancing drugs scandals within the top 1%.
@@andreday4875 Lance Armstrong.
Watch Hans’ interview during the Sinquefield cup against Alireiza, and he explains how he thought of moves. In that interview, he shows human honesty, and emotion being poured out from sealed thoughts and feelings. Again, it explains how he thought of these moves.
I guarantee you, if you listen, you’ll lean towards believing him - because it shows a vulnerable human being completely honest, and explains his moves.
@@andreday4875 In all sports, most cheaters are in their own rights actually really good players without the cheating. Those good players tend to have the knowledge to get away with it better, as well as the temptation as you've pointed out. This is consistent in all cheatable sports.
@@Theodore_VII are you dumb? Most of the lines are absurd. He's clearly repeating "this is winning" when no one can see that. Yes, he's got emotions and all. But he's a cheater!!!!!!! Even if thay game he wasnt cheating, he definitely cheater A LOT! AND IT'S OVER THE BOARD.
I have been one of those people defending Hans and saying that without proof of cheating in over the board tournaments, we cannot turn into a mob and witch hunt the guy.
Starting to think I should go look for my pitchfork...
Alot of ameeicans did that.
They attacked Nakamura just for saying he suspects Hans.
I will remember that.
Aparently they don’t like Hikaru.
@@HyDl2ALiSk the majority of Hikarus viewers are american
@@lukeperkins8508 well, it's not a problem, mate, we are all here to learn in this life :)
@@lukeperkins8508 Hikaru is also American
@@Padgriffin I understand. I don't understand akkadian's point which is why I pointed it out. I don't think they have a point.
It's pretty sad that people who have no idea how CAPS accuracy works actually believe this crap. Long story short, CAPS accuracy score is probably the absolute worst way to determine cheating at this level.
What is the short story long?
People gave Magnus a lot of shit at the start but he's starting to seem much more reasonable the more that comes to light. Idk if I'd want to play Neimann either if I was him.
Flash: *" i dont want to fight me either!"*
Here is a reformatted, easier-to-read Chessbase spreadsheet about Niemann's scores vs Erigaisi's scores:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jSCDpYuko5Wu0aiNZwNCyFCPD9UjGSYtGNk1VwsK_0o/edit?usp=sharing t
More accurate title : "Hikaru reacts to proves that Hans Niemann cheated given by Yosha"
I know. Amaricans hate Nakamura. I get it.
Even if he was right suspecting Niemann. Still he is not liked
I've just ordered a set of beads from my local Chess shop..
Your clickbaits are getting better. Keep up the good work.
If this is true I feel for Magnus
This is true but is extremely misleading. She was using some extremely obscure or outdated engines, and in order to get to a 100% correlation they just have to have one engine that has Hans’ move in top 3 or top 1, she didn’t explain that very clearly. A redditor ran that same “100%” game vs Cornette with only the top moves of newest versions of top 5 engines and got a result of him getting 70%. It seems Yosha is just forcing the 100% on his games. “Oh here’s a 70%, not good enough, there must be some engine that has Hans’ moves on their top 3, let’s add that in, great it’s now at 76, let’s add more in!”
For example, if you go to lichess database and in just Yosha's first 100% game of Hans vs Cornette, Lichess found an inaccuracy. And this inaccuracy was ignored because in one of the engines used by Yosha it would be a top 1/2/3 move. In his second "100%" game vs Woo Lichess found 2 inaccuracies and 1 mistake. 3rd vs Soto he had a blunder do I need to continue?
And also I watched the entire Hikaru's video, HiKarub was running it on his own engines, I don't see anywhere in that video where he imported all of Yosha's engines before running the analysis. He just ran his games right away in his own chess base that had his own engines. So if anyone wants, he/she can just start adding engines to the mix and juice up the percentage and also get a bunch of high Hikaru games to 100.
@@lebryanthoward9416 what engine did she use then? Obviously you need to explain yourself when you say something like that
@@lebryanthoward9416 Nevertheless, Hans wipes out Fischer and Kasparov at their PEAK with the same engine, outdated or not it is an apples to apples comparison because the same engine was used for Hans, Fischer and Kasparov.
@@lebryanthoward9416 What Hikaru does in his video doesnt matter. He just wanted to see how the tool is behaving, like does the tool take theory into account, are numbers consistent and so on. In the end Hikaru himself just wanted to play around with the tool and see what happens. His mission was not to do something scientific, because he knows that other people like the person in the video have much more knowledge in statistics and science.
If the tool with its analysis is misleading and skewing percentages to high for Hans, like you claim, then how doesnt it do the same thing to all other chess players that were analysed. How is the tool only skewing Hans numbers while all other percentages are consistent. The computer analyzing doesnt care about Hans or any of this drama. Its sees the match and rates it objectivly no matter who played the match. And its not like the person in the video cherry picked a few chess players to compare with Hans. The person just straight out looked at all super GM players in recent history.
@@lebryanthoward9416 interesting thanks for the clarification
Hans' silence speaks for itself.
Probably just hoping for it to die down, yet all you’re boring lives are feeding off of the drama so he’s probably feeling tormented and wanting to stay away from the situation. His silence is saying something, as well as the absent evidence is speaking for itself.
@@Theodore_VII Hans cheats for himself
Innocent until proven guilty. It's Magnus' job to prove it, not for Han's to prove he didn't cheat
@@KRterrorKR123 a historic cheater shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt.
whats the chess software shown in the video?
If anything this just shows how good Magnus is. Holding out for so long against Stockfish.
Hans is guilty as hell
Any evidence?
@@malibunights7108 we'll see very soon
@@carbon4487 we've been waiting for weeks. All people did is throw stones at the guy without any evidence. I mean, how can you prove you did not cheat? You cannot prove something you didn't do. On the other hand, the accuser is the one who should release and evidence right after accusing someone.
@@malibunights7108 and when the proof apears u will need to give an apology because u were defendind a cheater.
@@malibunights7108 I was waiting for evidence too before coming to my own judgement but I think this video is enough to discredit him from online tournaments. His accuracy is too similar to a bot
If this is accurate, Hans has some explaining to do.
chess speaks for itself
The proof is already there. Whether he wanna lie or not..no one's gonna believe him. 100% accuracy in all those games is just impossible. It's like 2800 playing a 1000. You'll get a 100%
@@ivi0nk3y36 It is not she manipulated the accuracy for you dumb people to buy it , when you put multiple engines to analyze ofc its gonna high scores because your correlating with multiple engines suggestions and out of those probably every super GM can match those .
The only thing I want to know is how did he do it? Everyone is so sure based on analysis of the games but how many games was the security as strong as the st Louis tournament they had radio scanners metal scanners no phones allowed everything so even with butt plug they would've caught him so how is it happening?
the chess speaks for itself. he just built different
What is that software she is using?? Pls anyone?
yo i was on hans side before this lol
I hear the accuracy stats of Niemann's and in my head, I think of Fernando Martinez shouting at the top of his lungs, "LAZLOW! IT IS A MIRACLE!"
100% accuracy is extremely different from 100% engine correlation. She was using some extremely obscure or outdated engines, and in order to get to a 100% correlation they just have to have one engine that has Hans’ move in top 3 or top 1, she didn’t explain that very clearly. A redditor ran that same “100%” game vs Cornette with only the top moves of newest versions of top 5 engines and got a result of him getting 70%. It seems Yosha is just forcing the 100% on his games. “Oh here’s a 70%, not good enough, there must be some engine that has Hans’ moves on their top 3, let’s add that in, great it’s now at 76, let’s add more in!”
For example, if you go to lichess database and in just Yosha's first 100% game of Hans vs Cornette, Lichess found an inaccuracy. And this inaccuracy was ignored because in one of the engines used by Yosha it would be a top 1/2/3 move. In his second "100%" game vs Woo Lichess found 2 inaccuracies and 1 mistake. 3rd vs Soto he had a blunder do I think need to continue? This is not an accuracy stat this is a stat of his correlation vs the random engines that Yosha used that she never revealed.
This exactly; even that b5 in the endgame is not suggested by the engines.
Is the argument that somehow Hans has 100 different accomplices rotating and feeding him different engine's moves simultaneously?
I play poker, not chess, but this whole controversy is very familiar. Simply by reviewing poker hand histories, online sleuths have proven a player had superuser access becasue they were playing perfect strategy.
It just reminds me of that bit in casino where the doorknob is put in charge of the slot machines and three of them get tilted in a row and he says "maybe the guy just got lucky." And then robert diniro has to explain to him that the chances of that happening are several billion to one.
Even Stockfish would resign after move 1 against Hans!
The beads vibrate for themselves
Now now, we aren't here to kink shame. But lets be honest, you'd use e-stim electric shocks, not vibrations.
HEADS UP TO HIKARU! Yosha has been manipulated by gambitman. If you look closely at the let's check analysis (which is collaborative, that means anybody with a custom engine in the internet can contribute for it) for hans' games, you'll notice the other engines don't give hans moves as the best or computer moves and gambitman's engine version shows up suggesting it. That's why she was getting 100%. Also, let's check analysis varies over time, some of Hans' 100 score games are already down to 85, 83 and will move down to 70-71. Gambitman has manipulated the results of some of hans' games and flooded chessbase to incriminate him.
Actually that guy managed to fool and convince hundreds of thousands that these manufactured stats are evidence of cheating
Either he’s cheating or we’ve entered into a new era of human calculation ability. Assuming the data is accurate, the accuracy displayed is unprecedented for human beings. Unfortunately, he’s been caught twice for cheating so we know that can’t be ruled out as something he’s capable of. 🤷🏼♂️
Remember he admitted to cheating online. This data isn't relevant to the Magnus game where he didn't have high engine correlation.
Guys stop accusing Hans.
He is the greatest chess player on earth we are searching for two decades.
And we can start our old human vs engine match up
When Hans from the internet era created his schema he was not aware of the ancient German executable “chessbase”. This was one of the mistakes.
When you can’t explain your game so you drop ‘the chess speaks for itself’ - genius
Omg watching this girl speaking English with no subtitles will be a nightmare
Can someone explain the difference between engine accuracy and correlation?
When you suddenly take 1st place mock exam in the high school and the teacher start questioning you
"Hikaro proofes..."
Is like me watching a football complation and calling me the best striker in the world
I'm so glad someone made a shortened sparknotes version of Hikarus 2 hour long video.
7th Sunway Sitges in 2020, Niemann finished 13th place in that tournament. Cheparinov finished first with 8 points out of 10 games.
Ya the numbers presented by Yosha look cooked or seriously miscalculated.
Hans fish need maintenance, battery can be low
Just because Niemann didn't win doesn't mean he isn't a cheater. That's like saying an athlete isn't on steroids because he isn't winning when very well it could be the reason they are taking steroids. Its just a dumb argument. Niemann was barely able to get into the tournament where he beat Magnus meaning he is at the bottom of the leaderboard. If he just started playing at 100 percent accuracy every game they would have instantly banned him from competitive chess. He is smarter than that he is slowly going to start cheating more and more so it looks like he is gaining skill. When in reality when he first began cheating was when he was the most sloppy at it. They need to ban him now before he becomes more sophisticated. 100 percent accuracy on a 45 move game is humanly impossible. Indefinite ban. Period.
@@gpcarnage4881 I will check this claim of 100% accuracy for 45 straight moves myself.
Yeah, he also wasn't playing at 100% accuracy those games.
45 move with 100% accuracy....... 🤷
What was the result of those game?
Engine can also lose .
@@taufiqatiq6563 engines don't lose. humans cannot beat them. somewhat sad facts.
45 moves, 100%, chess speaks for itself
This cheating thing is the kind of thing that is so OBVIOUS, and at the same time so unfortunately hard to prove, that makes me to want to abandon chess - even for a hobby. Disgusting.
these type of comments make me genuinely wonder if some people are actually npcs. because I can’t even begin to start how nonsensical this comment is
@@theanalyzer0
Perhaps my bad English didn't help... But I wont bother trying to explain anyway.
It's not that hard to practically rule it out at top level tournaments, but it requires very strict security measures that are uncomfortable for all players. But in principle you can strip search everyone, search every toilet and prevent any form of contact with spectators. For every conceivable way of cheating there's a solution, but of course it comes at a price, so tournament organisers have to find a sweet spot between safety and freedom (not unlike in politics, think terrorism prevention, same dilemma essentially)
Before accepting blindly the data presented at chess base (?), someone must peer review it, someone must replicate how they got those numbers. If they get the same results by using the exact equation chess base used to all top GMs's within the last 10 years, then that's the time we can accept this video having some credibility.
That wouldn't work. Then people would realize this 100% accuracy bs only holds up if you cherry pick the recommendations of every major chess engine in existence.
Hikaru went through a couple of 100% games. And people on reddit as well.
@@brettperry3737 I think it picked out the best out of 15 chess engine or something.
The thing is, it can be connected to ALL chess games, magnus only ever got 100% games about 3 times in 20 years, Han's got 10 in 3 years.
It already has credibility with Hans coach being banned and Hans being caught twice for cheating. Anything at this point can be looked at more indepthly as evidence.
No one is blindly accepting it. But it is definitely fishy that ChessBase shows Hans has 10 games in the past 3 years with 100% engine correlation, when Fischer had 0, Magnus had 2-3 in his 20 year career, and Hikaru at his best got 80%. This coupled with proof that Hans cheated online before. He only admitted to cheating on two occassions, but when Magnus' company merged with Chess com, their engine detected other games where Hans also cheated yet didn't get caught. Magnus can't reveal that without getting sued, so he's keeping that to himself right now. Hans lied. So when you bring forth Hans playing so similar to top chess engines, his cheating past, him lying about his cheating, his current coach being a known former cheater as well, it is hard to deny it all.
If it looks like a duck,swims like a duck,and quaks like a duck,then its probably a duck.
You should also watch the interview with Ken Regan, who did an extensive analysis. His data says Hans underperformed in the tournaments he did best at, and his opponent's played statistically weaker than their average. Would be a good comparison for data sets and opinions.
It's easy for a GM to notice the mental state of his opponent. The Fischer Spassky Championship in 1972 was full of psychological intrigue, and many GMs have used this aspect as part of their playing strategy.
The next interview of HN is gonna dig heavy into his knowledge of the theory behind each of his moves.
If his answer continues to be, “chess speaks for itself” well..... you know
Yeah Hikaru Nakamura has some fucking explaining to do
@@thehumanpractice2985 mean Hans lol
@@UTUBE3JC I know brother, just play along will ya
@@thehumanpractice2985 just making sure hehehehe
@@thehumanpractice2985 now that I get it was a joke , very funny comment 🤓🤓
This isn't Hikaru giving proof, he's reiterating someone elses evidence...
I’ve had literally like 2 rapid games in my life at 97% accuracy and a handful of daily/correspondence games at 97% or so.
But they’ve all been like 12-15 move games where my opponent falls into a trap that I know by heart.
If he was really this good he’d be able to analyze his own shit.
This video Hikaru is reacting to is a farce. His engine correlation in his match vs Magnus was 67%, not even close to the highest in that tournament (87% iirc). Its undeniable Magnus played poorly in their match, and Hans just played a little bit better, even while making engine mistakes along the way.
@@ryangillies8064
Yeah that’s the right way to cheat for sure
Hans is the greatest chess talent the world has seen. Stockfish 11 in human form.