Fisher 30 Ep 36 - Affordable fibreglassing with polyester - you dont need expensive epoxy.
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Refurbishing of a Motorsailer from 1976. This Fisher 30 Northeaster has been torn down and are now being rebuilt inside. In this video some of the structural walls are being first prepped and then glassed to the hull.
Hi Helge! My comments in no particular order are as follows: Happy wife, happy life. I equally enjoy your cabin restoration segments. Please keep them going! I used a pastry bag to pipe thickened epoxy (with the colloidal silica) to radius the joints on plywood-to-hull joints. It was quick once you got the stuff into the pastry bag. It was also effortless to apply it consistently. It is 28.6c here in Eastern Ontario, Canada. Thankfully the humidity is low otherwise I would be melting. 🥵 Hi to Sara and thanks as always my friend.
Hi Duncan. That saying is quite spot on! ;-D
Thanks for letting me know you enjoy also some moments from the cabin.
The problem with the polyester filler is the very narrow time window. Not a lot of time to fill filler into a plastic bag after mixing. And with the polyester itself there is no way I have time to thicken it during that five minutes time slot. That is the main drawback with polyester vs epoxy.
Wow, so you have the same heat (even mores so) as we had (cooler now). Too much for me to function very well in.... Thanks my friend :-)
@@hsobstad I stuck with Epoxy resin with the filler and worked fast. lol. Yes, Canada has become the Bahamas of the north. We now require sunscreen year-round. 😆
@@duncanjames914 😂
A couple of tips if I may. First please get a small fire extingiusher on board with dust an chemicals fire will spread very fast. Second perhaps a small fan placed to move the stink around and hopefully out of your work space. Plastic tubes are available to bring in fresh air from outside but then they will also be another thing in the way.
Great job and a gorgeous country you have.
You absolutely may advice me :-)
Fire extinguisher is a good tips.
I actually have a fan that I mostly use, but not if I videotape with sound as it makes a lot of noise.
Found your channel, great videos and great attitude on camera. I am in the US however my oldest son lives in Oskarshamn Sweden and your coast line looks a lot like southeast Sweden and the Baltic Sea in that area. Your coast line is beautiful and I heard you mention Norway in your video. I have never been to Norway however a friend in Sweden and his son took a month long caravan journey in Norway about ten years ago and I had the pleasure of seeing the slides taken of the amazing natural beauty your country has. It is truly endless.
You have a great boat project going and great skills. I look forward to future videos of the boat and the outside deck you are building (in the US we call a outdoors floor structure attached to a dwelling a deck). With great respect.... Joe
Hi Joe. Thanks for your kind and telling comment.
I guess there are similarities in the coastline between Sweden and Norway, but also a lot of differences. One of the differences is of course that Swedens main coastline is in the Baltic sea while Norways coastline is towards the Atlantic. And of course Norway have the fjords. And with the second longest coastline in the world there are a lot of variety. Both countries have a lot (!) of islands which makes great sceneries when boating.
Thanks for watching the channel. I will do my best to keep producing videos. :-)
Especially interesting were the final two minutes, apparently a documentary about nighttime in Norway. ; ]
Enjoyed the episode tremendously. Thanks as always!
Sorry about the last two or three minutes of darkness.... :-)
It is always a pleasure to watch you working on your boat. Looking forward to the next video so I can see your progress. Really love the waterfalls, they are very special and reminiscent of when We lived in Hawai'i. Till then take care and vaer trygg.
What a lovely feedback and with some Norwegian too. (vær trygg=be safe - can also mean "be sure/certain").
Living in Hawaii sure sounds exotic (in a good way) to me :-)
Very nice video and the variety with the cabin and the lovely views are really enjoyable, thanks again for taking us along with you.👍 Steve
Thanks for letting me know you also enjoy the scenes from the cabin.
Please wear safety glasses especially when working on overhead painting epoxy
@@niallrath1925 A good and valid point. Will try to do so. 🙂
Hahaha, "it's enormous hot" at 27 degC. 100 days of 100 degF (around 40 degC) is a much used saying over here, although this year it took a little longer to kick in. Anyway, you've got plenty of work to do;) Keep up the great work! Btw. I used to work offshore in Norway and that rescue at sea training you showed, used to be mandatory for us to be allowed to go offshore.
Yes, I know... We are not used to such heat and are suffering (really!) when it is that hot. :-)
Oh... You worked in Norway, but you are from a place (where?) of 1/3 of the year is 40 degrees (100F). You must have had lots of insulation (clothes) I guess ;-)
In the Midwest of the US, but born in Frysland
Regarding your cabin, we here in the US call that a deck, what a giant upgrade, that’s going to be so nice, beautiful area too, wow! The first time I used chop strand matting was a total fail, it all became a globby mess! I’ve improved a lot since then and you’re absolutely right about the different types of fiberglass. Thanks for the episode and entertainment!
A deck. I will try to remember that :-)
Thanks for your feedback.
Fabulous film Helge and it's coming along nicely now.
Please don't stop living my dream.
Excellent!
Thank you.
Hi Simon! Thanks for kind feedback, which motivates.
Am I living your dream? Shouldnt you do that yourself? :-)
I have no plans to stop making these episodes, together with Sara. I hope you dont mind me adding some content from the cabin as well. I know this is a boating channel but.... :-D
@@hsobstad The extra content is valuable and a personal gift to everyone.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Hi Helge!
Great video as usual! I like your cabin in the mountains! And I like how your boat is coming out: yes, when she'll be finished it could well be compared to a brand new one! (NAME OF THE BOAT? BLIMP?)
As "Parents in Law", other than beer and boating, we can go around by motorcycle, since I'm a VERY OLD biker (and RidingSafe National Instructor!)...but Sara wasn't in the video so their marriage might be posponed or even disattended! 😀
Nevetheless we could talk, sail, ride and drink anyway, even as just friends...🙂
Look forward your next step: every step is now going always faster to the goal...
Hugs!max🙂
Hi Max. The name of the boat is Marco Polo (has always been).
If we manage to meet up we´ll drink beer and talk motorcycles then :-)
🤟💜😂
Very constructive vidio, lots of hard work, it's nice to see things coming together.. Thank you, that was enjoyable..
Thanks, Keith, for your kind feedback. :-)
Good show!
It's my experience, and reinforced by others , that polyester doe not bond well to old polyester . , so for repairs I use epoxy. For new work polyester might be OK, but not for bonding to existing mouldings.
Hi Andrew. That is an interesting point. With old polyester I always grind with very rough (40) paper and get a clean and rough surface. Then clean with Acetone. In my experience that works (and bond) well. I have done this with several boats. And yes the old polyester should be left to dry out after grinding and before adding new polyester.
I could use epoxy (like I did on the renewed engine bed) but must then keep track of where it has been used as polyester will not stick very well to epoxy. :-)
Using polyester to repair polyester is wrong. You may not find the problem now but after a few years when you bulkheads fall out you will realise why you were told it is wrong.
@@timevans8223Thanks for your input. Is this your personal experience or something you have read or been told? Any specific details to to enlighten the subject? Any documentation would be useful. The topic seems to be disputed also among viewers. My personal experience is that it works well. 🙂
@hsobstad yes, repairing my dinghy with polyester, the bond failed. The dinghy has a 15hp engine and running in a chop, the boat takes some punishment. The bond failed. Then repaired with epoxy and never had a problem again. On my yacht, all grp work is done with epoxy and we never see a problem. My boat proffessional builder friend said never to repair polyester with polyester if you want a trouble free project
@@timevans8223 No doubt you will be using epoxy, of which I understand. I am still waiting for my polyester bondings to fail (incl. previous projects) so I may be stupid continuing using polyester (and some epoxy) 🙂
Love the videos Jon, keep them coming bud !!!!
Thanks!
Sure! If you say so ;-)
@@hsobstad yes please Sarah!!!
Looking good! A few things 1 Make sure the deck (cabin) is bolted to the house, the screws won't rake a lot of weight 2 Don't breathe air with chemicals in it. You're not making new lungs anymore. 3 Beer is good ... Ben Franklin" There is wisdom in wine, strength in beer and bacteria in water". Enjoy
1. I think it is one large piece; the whole superstructure.
2. I dont. Have a very good gas filtering mask and use it. But hard to comment inside the mask :-)
3. Agree! Love the old Ben Franklin saying... :-)
@@hsobstad Trust me , use bolts, talk to a good remodeler. .
@@oldkokitsum4022 Oh... Now I understand. That was a comment to the cabin. I see that now. Yes I have used a lot of screws to "bolt" the deck to the "house". The 18 cm long screws will stick well to the structure. Thanks 🙂
Definitely agree, not worth the cost of using epoxy.
Polyester is fine, just needs good preparation.
Sand, clean, apply thinned coat.
Polyester is a bit brittle, so adding some filler / fibre helps. It also helps bonding to the next coat if sanded.
I did a temporary quick n dirty repair to epoxy glass sheathed ply hull, underwater for a year. Just removed to do a proper repair, yes in this case epoxy. The polyester stuck very well to the epoxy, i had to grind it off. I think as it had a lot of filler, ie it sticks to the filler not the epoxy.
Most interesting. There are only warnings about coating poly over epoxy, but this somehow adds aspects to the one-sided warnings. I find the debate of the use of these two resins quite pore and almost impossible to discuss as it is sat in stone that epoxy is the only way - always. Thanks for advising me :-)
@@hsobstad . Of course your boat is very substantial, the bulkheads are not that structural. For high load areas, or below waterline, epoxy is the best choice.
I suspect that polyester resin was used throughout the build of these boats. Back in the late 60s (when these were designed) we used to buy stuff from Strand Glass, the biggest supplier of glassfibre materials in the UK, and I don't recall epoxy resin featuring in their catalogue at all. I worked for a while next door to a place that produced all manner of glassfibre products (including beach-buggies which really interested me 😃) and I don't recall anyone mentioning epoxy.
That is interesting. Nowadays I find that most all repairs on fibreglass boats are made with epoxy. I can not see the point of that in many instances as I have done lots of suksessfull repairs in my lifetime and they seems to hold well, using polyester against polyester.
(I have peeked at beach-buggies styled small cars as I had a Morgan 3-wheeler which was very fun but it was not reliable so something to replace that - then beach buggy came up. :-)
@@hsobstad Thanks for the reply. I used to live in a seaside village in Devon in the 60s and early 70s and saw and did repairs on boats with polyester resin. So long as the area of the repair was cleaned up beforehand they all seemed to go very well. The only one I recall being a problem was a bodge repair on the bow of a 40ft wooden motor boat where someone stuffed a huge chunk of resin into a hole. It was so thick the heat build up caused it to do a thermal run-away and start smoking. By the time they had finished chucking buckets of sea water over it to stop it catching fire it didn't look too great!
I had a "fun" incident carrying some polyester hardener (MEKP) home in my coat pocket. It leaked enough to bleach part of the coat and then the pocket gave way. Nice stuff but we didn't get it much thought back then.
@@ColinMill1 Seems you have some great stories to tell. And amusing ones are worth telling over and over.
Sure sounds like you have a few years of seniority over me, having lived in a seaside village in the 60ies. I was born in the mid 60ies ;-D
I have my own stories of polyester and gelcoat. Buying a hugh box and mixing hardner into it all. The gelcoat (topcoat) became gel within 15 minutes and hence useless. One time I forgot to put hardener and it did not cure at all. Had to redo it all. I will probably fail on something now as well ;-D
If you build in a mould go for poly. But bulkheads should be fastened with epoxy as poly will eventually let go if it is stressed epoxy won’t.
Thanks for your input.
As far as I can observe the builder used poly on the hull, after it was removed from the mould. Now, of course, it is almost 50 years old, but being grinded and de-greased I belive it should stick. Anyhow it is already done so.... :-)
Wait a minute. No Sarah making faces or comments this video.
Polyester fumes give me instant headache. I have to wear my respirator before I start and take it off once I’m far enough away. I would have passed out in the boat, no stepping out for a breath of fresh air.
Love the cabin.
Cant have Sara making faces in all videos. Those faces are really specials ;-)
I do wear a gas-filtering mask all the time. Works well. But not when commenting :-D
@@hsobstad I won’t have a camera recording. My daughter is here next week to help me with some home renovations.
If there was a camera present I am sure there would be many cuts to her making a “ what is he doing” face.
@@wornoutwrench8128 😂
Much more tolerable vapor or fumes from epoxy over polyresin.Also epoxy works with lower temps.CHEERS FROM HERE!
I agree! There is always a catch... ;-)
The problem with new polyester (the bulkhead) on old (the hull) is that there is no chemical bond, only a mechanical (adhesive) bond. Epoxy is a better "glue". Rigidly fixing bulkheads introduces point loads whichb lead to stress cracking, so a filler with some flex and adhesive qualities, like Sikaflex, may be a better bet than polyester filler.
And wear your fume filter mask when handling resin, you have one after all!!! and set up a fan!!!
Thanks for advising me.
I agree with your claim that the polyester is not making a chemical bond, nor is the epoxy. Both are strong but the epoxy is stronger, but also less flexible.
Remember, the bulkhead is actually glued to the hull using epoxy. Then cleaning the surfaces with an angle grinder to remove excess epoxy. The added poly-filler is then to make a smooth curve instead of the 90 degree angle against the hull. Fibreglass is way less strong when "broken" into a 90 degree angle. The filler with a smooth curve is then covered with polyester and glassfibre mat.
The Sikaflex would be flexible yes, but it would not be possible to glass over as the glass would not stick to the Sikaflex. Hence way less strength then what I have made with the polyester/glass.
Then it is the question of how much strength is needed in this actual instance. Keeping a structural wall/bulkhead in place. In my opinion, not that much, so the polyester solution is strong enough by a good margin. I this instance epoxy would be stronger, but not an extra strengt that is really needed. (again in this instance - and in my opinion).
Most everyone goes for "epoxy is the answer in all instances". I miss more details and content into such debates.
Yes I should have a fan covering the hatch. I have skipped the mask on the epoxy. Maybe I should use it there too? I know epoxy is way worse to get on your skin, and as uncured dust in the air, both compared to polyester. But I have not got the same impression about the fumes from epoxy (are there any?)... :-)
Be very aware that Epoxy Cures and remains rather stable. However, Polyester has a tendency to shrink and twist after a while. This is a good example of how polyester can exceed the duty of epoxy in a proper application.
I very much appreciate your advice. I do have heard the same in the sense that the polyester might actually pull on the hull so that one can see the bulkheads place on the outside of the hull. This hull is however very thick so probably not. Do not hesitate to give advise, even if I am on the wrong track. :-)
That deck you are building looks like it will be very nice there on your mountain cabin. I was thinking I did not see any metal flashing on the ledger joist.....was wondering what your plans for that are. Here in the Sierra Nevada mountain range, we get a lot of water and snow and for decks attached to the main structure, it is extremely important to use flashing as not invite moisture into/onto the exterior wall and bring wood rot to the cabin itself. You do such nice work Helge, wouldn't want your investment to go to bad sooner. We have seen it happen time after time; even with treated lumber. Anyhow, Cheers! Keep up the good work!
Thanks for your consideration and advice.
I am using the same method as I did when I made the deck on my summerhouse 22 years ago. I fasten the structure to the cabins structure via 18cm long screws. This will not hurt the structure of the cabin due to the construction technique used in Norway. The outer wooden skin (planks) is only for keeping most of the water (rain) away from the inner structure. Behind the outer skin there is a 1-inch open ventilation space, going all the way from the ground to the roof. Behind that the wall is fully covered with an asphalt/tar-plate, making it wind and water resistent. And behind that again you will find the main structure. So (normally) no problem :-)
You are a true professional! Thanks for the explanation on that. I stand corrected😁
As you can imagine here in the states techniques are different, but thank you for explaining that to me. I enjoy your videos, keep them coming! Cheers!
@@rdg8221 You are to kind 🙂
What I find most surprising is the use of expanding foam for insulation in US buildings. That foam is flamable and will burn well if fire occurs. In Norway that is not a legal insulation. We use rockwool or glass-wool, both of which does not burn and thus prevent flames from spreading through the structure of a house.
In the US a lot of things that don't make sense are allowed. Just follow the lobbyists and the profit.🤔Big chemical companies need to make billions year after year.....
You might want to do some more studying on the subject of polyester over epoxy. I put some fiberglass strips over some holes I filled with epoxy and the glass lifted right over the holes. It was an old boat made with polyester resin.
While epoxy adheres tenaciously to cured polyester, the reverse is not true, so the bond between an epoxy repair and an overcoat of polyester gelcoat will not be strong.
Thanks for advising me. I totally agree! This is also why I only used epoxy when I glued the plywood to the hull. This way the contact points between the epoxy and the polyester will be minimal and hence should be of no problem for the strength of the polyester-glassing.
Thanks!
Thank you, Duncan!!! You keep supporting us :-)
@@hsobstad Without question. 🙂 It's a very small token of appreciation for sharing your journey. You deserve much more.
Great videos you and youre daughter produce! tahnk you
Thanks for telling us :-)
Great progress. Have you ever considered West Systems Six-10 epoxy? Comes in a tube and mixes as you pull the trigger on the caulking gun. It is a gap filling structural epoxy that is very strong.
The problem about using epoxy is that you cannot use polyester afterwards. That is why I used polyester filler and not thickened epoxy. :-)
@@hsobstad Well, it looks great, keep it up.
Hello from Denmark - what kind of plywood have you used on your boat ? I don't look like marineplywood for me but i can't find the answer in your videos. Keep up the good work - love your videos 🙂
Hello Denmark. The plywood is marine plywood - or at least it is bought to be that. Was really hard to obtain here in Norway. :-)
Bondo laminating resin is pretty cheap here 525.00 / 4.7l
When converting c to f for average surface atmospheric temps I find that simply doubling the C then adding 32 is close enough.
Are you watching the six planets lined up?
The polyester resin I use cost about $100 for 10 litre. Also cheap.
That is a great rule of thumb for celcius --> fahrenheit convertion.
No I was not aware of that planetary line-up. Very cloudy here now so very little chance of doing that monday morning.... :-)
@@hsobstad Your right the polyester resin is a great value....I'm switching back.
Here they require me to obtain my destination weather from the official USA National Weather Service; they use Centigrade ( and inches - ho figure) However, enroute and prior to landing I must obtain weather from the local services which broadcast in Fahrenheit - go figure. . Millibars are my preferred but all of them use inches instead - wtf! Anyway, the simple conversion is good enough for flight.
Check out NASA resources for some great free images and artwork; amazing quality on your devices.
Boats looking great 😃
Hi Helge, I've successfuĺy used talcum powder as an inert and cheap polyester filler. Creating a fan / forced airflow helps manage the fumes. How was the Welsh Red for you ? Keep up the good work, best regards Peter
Hi Peter. I would never have thought about that. Will it be strong enough? One could use wheat flour, but probably not strong... ;-)
I actually have a fan, working when not filming with sound (makes a lot of noise).
The red ale was a suksess I would say. Not a 100% but absolutely a very good moderately alcoholic beer. I will do it again, but not yet. Thanks for asking :-)
Great video! I was a bit confused with the cabin interiors. Maybe call them old cabin and new cabin so we know which is which?
Thanks Robert. You are right. I am just holding back on the cabin videos as this is supposed to be a boat refurbishing channel :-)
@@hsobstad Helge, this is your channel, post what you like. Speaking for myself I am interested in the cabins also!!
I agree that there are advantages to working with polyester but affordability isn't really one of them so much anymore if you're buying in smaller quantities. Raka has 3 gallon epoxy kits for $160 us whereas polyester resin sells for about $50 per gallon and often more. Vinylester is significantly more expensive but using it somewhat sparingly to enhance bonding or waterproofing is probably money well spent.
Your killing of my affordability point might be valid, yes. I must confess I have only done comparisons based on local pricing here in Norway and that might not at all reflect the pricing/competition in other countries, and with other brands. Thanks for your input.
(I have commented on the vinylester point on your other commenting) :-)
In UK, epoxy is 3x the price of polyester.
Also beware of cheap epoxy, they may not be suitable for DIY use, very toxic.
@@markthomasson5077 I've been very happy with RAKA. They've been around much longer than the reseller types that largely emerged with the art casting toxic insainity.
@@winningwithoutracing7811 UK, epoxy, £90 per 4.5l, approx gallon!
am i the only one who gets Alec Steele vibes ?
" i would make mistake after mistake and THEN read the manual"
" I just need to breath " ......
I know EXACTLY what you mean.... xD ahhaha
ohhh I wish! ;-D
what do you base that optimism on...
Joy, I guess...
Or is this a specific question? Then please detail a bit more, as for me to understand... :-)
@@hsobstad, I mentioned as I thought it was a great line (regarding the beer) I thought it was funny
@@rad7142 Thanks for telling me. 🙂👍
Polyester on wood needs a primer, I used vinylester on wood this needs no priming however it needs a topcoat the cure at the top.
It seems to me this actual polyester is biting well onto the wood and is dry. But I will do a check on this. Thanks for inputting me :-)
😊
With some combinations of materials... you don't even want epoxy and glass... they use other fibers instead.
I guess my main point was that the boat is made of polyester and glass. And repairing it with polyester and glass makes sense. :-)
Terrace, Sun deck, Veranda, Balcony, Lanai - Hawaiian word. Porch or just a deck.
Heyyyy... Lots to choose from here ;-)
It is much better to use epoxy to repair polyester.
Polyester does not adhere so well to old polyester.
Thanks for telling me. Any personal experience with failing polyester or any sources?
I do agree with epoxy being better, but better is not always required (but sometimes it is - like the engine bed). For keeping the structures in place I find polyester to be more than strong enough to do the job well with no challenge to the bond.
Polyester doesnt stick to epoxy. Youll get in a storm and itll all just pop off. People go to a boat yard we are all happy to give advice that wont kill you.
Agree! I wish to clarify that I have not used that solution.
Haha..,if all else fails…read the instructions
Epoxy the only real way to go .
If you say so :-)
i dont think you could do better than silk.... i use table epoxy the big cheap jugs
Poor guy
Thats a new one.... ;-D
After the helicopter rescue shots I kept waiting for more besides a dark screen! Maybe you need to get back your video editor! Cute! Regards.
Sorry about that 3 minutes of darkness. We live and we learn. :-)
Bergen?
Yes!
@@hsobstad I was there some years ago, thought I recognised it.
Actually quite impressive (to recognise). I hope Bergen showed it´s better sides (and weather)... :-)
@@hsobstad weather excellent…it only rained every other day!
Seni seyretmek bir zevk inan kolaylıklar dilerim Helge arkadaş
Thanks for your nice feedback. Gives me energy :-)
It's really funny how many now-a-days are using so much epoxy.
They are repairing/rebuilding an old boat constructed with ploy that lasted 30 or 40 years before they got the boat.
Keep on using poly, it's much cheaper and easy to deal with
Lots of info out there as it's been used for over 60 years.
I fully agree! The point of the title in the video too :-)
Epoxy is far better for repairs as it sticks far better
@@jackdbur But it's still just mechanical bond. If the boat was made with poly and you use poly to repair etc.,, you can use styrene to give both mechanical and partial chemical bond. Thats one of the oldest tricks in the book that we've used since the late 60's Styrene don't work with epoxy, best you can hope for is a good mechanical bond. But epoxy is good for small jobs, those who work slow and cant stay in a good curing temp range
@@jackdbur According to the "resin library dot com" epoxy has about 20-30% better tensile strength than polyester. I have not found anything (yet) saying anything about how well the two resins actually sticks to a (clean and prepped) polyester hull. So if that extra tensile strength is needed then epoxy is best. Otherwise polyester is WAY cheaper.
@@mazdarx7887 Interesting. What is the thing about styrene?
The good thing is that polyester is enert. Epoxy in toxic.
I was not aware that epoxy is toxic. Thanks for telling me.
How can you take on a big project yet not understand the use of glass, chop has no structural strength, you are using laminating resin
Guess you nailed it! :-)
And how do you get any integrity with bond of polyester to epoxy? They don't bond.
This highlights why you never listen to social media. Just cost my yard or any boat builder happy to give advice that won't kill you when it all goes to sh@t.
@@atw98 Oh really? I would love to discuss this with you, factually. But not sure you will recognise my knowledge/skills. Hence my words might be waisted.
I have never claimed you can bond polyester on epoxy. In the video I glue the plywood plate/sheet to the hull. Later I grind off any excess epoxy to make a clean surface and then using polyester filler/putty that bonds agains the hull, made of polyester and against the plywood. It should stick well and seems to do so. Then I glass with a smooth angle.
There are some millimeters of epoxy here and there where the polyester filler will not stick. But that is not critical. Not on this job. In other instances it might be. But the discussion around epoxy there seems to be no shades at all. That bothers me - a lot - as it blocks all aspects of a factual debate.
For this use I am confident that the work has more than enough strength. And now I know that you have not. But I dont know why you think not. You have only justified it with a flash of the obvious: "Polyester to epoxy dont bond. " Since the work is not polyester on epoxy but a lot of polyester on polyester and polyester on plywood there is really a lack of justification from your side. Please feel free to reason.
But when users starts their inputs like "How can you take on a big project yet not understand the use of glass..." then we know there is nothing to debate as their minds are made up and they have all the answers they need. I dont wait my time trying to argue such mindsets.
So you never listen to anything on social media. Well I do, but I also use my critical sense. 🙃
@@hsobstad yeah you didn't really make that clear. But hey I've only been building/repairing boats for over 40 years. Boats twist so chop strand probably isn't fit for what I saw you using it for. Your right though poly on poly is all good no worries there.
Not how anyone I've ever worked with would do it cause of stress cracks you may get in rough weather.
I'll concede that boat builders cringe hard when we see something that may be dangerous to promote because we've seen the outcome. And reading text never comes across well when discussing corrections. It always seems like an attack. In most cases it's not.
But the hull looks well built which will make the project much easier. Just maybe do some research as to where it's best to use woven. It may not seem important on the stand, but once the boat twists in large swell you'll appreciate the difference.
Hope you're enjoying the rebuild and it comes together well for you.
@@atw98 Thank you for a detailed and reasoned answer, and advising. I would like to give a few comments:
I agree that the twisting of the hull in bad weather is a major point. This hull was made with bulkheads not actually touching the hull, with 8-10 mm of space. Then glassed with polyester to the hull. That might be good to prevent stress cracks when the hull flex (and poly is a better flex than epoxy). I have built the bulkheads so they fit the shape of the hull more or less, with no gap between hull and bulkhead, but with - as previously described - a wider footprint against the hull. That solution might be a bit tougher on the hull - maybe. Other viewers with decades of experience tells me the solution will work well. Some say I shouldnt use poly on poly and some say that works well. So no unilateral advising from the professional boatbuilders either.
Also agree there are tons of things that might be dangerous. Actually not all hulls should be restored. There are made some really bad 1990--> boats where the fibreglass is in quick deteriorating condition and is not safe to restore (or you will have to do it really well). I had a First 32.5 some years ago where the hull was quite bad, with hand-sized osmosis bubbles reaching deep into the structure. This Fisher with its 1970-ies hull seems to be in very good shape and also seems quite strongly built.
I will investigate into the voven vs chaotic glass mat. But when the woven mat is hard to conform to the shape. Of course since the chopped mat is less strong than the woven one should use more of it to compensate. On the engine bed - which takes a lot of beating/vibrations i used woven mats and epoxy to get maximum strength. But on the bulkheads the main purpose of the glassing is to keep the bulkhead in place. The bulkhead itself will take most of the beating.
Thanks for your input. 🙂
if the boat was built using polyester than is polyester for repairs. Polyester absorbs moisture. shrinks and not as durable as epoxy.
Hi. Thanks for giving your input the polyester/epoxy issue.
The moisture-part is no problem as the hulls polyester does the same.
The shrinking and durability is interesting. Any details and documentation on those issues?
Epoxy is 40$ litre Poly 6
@@dudeleboski2692 There is absolutely a price difference that is significantly; at least in my country (Norway).
sun deck
YOU CAN NOT APPLY POLY OVER EXPOXY, I’ve been in the business 49 years
...because it wont stick. I agree! So I dont. I do - however glue the sides of a bulkhead (marine grade plywood) to the hull, using epoxy and later using polyester to glass the sides of the same bulkhead to the hull. The contact point between the epoxy and the polyester is a few millimeters where I understand there will be very little - if any adhering. But the rest of the bulkhead and hull will stick just fine. Or do you disagree...? I am interested in a professional factual opinion of course. :-)
Factory poly fillers are horrible, much better to make your own.
That way you can determine the work time and thickness yourself
The problem is that in the heat we have had the polyester cures so fast I have no time to mix thickener into the polyester - and add it to the structure - before it cures. This even using less hardener - as stated in the instructions. About 5 minutes of working time after adding the hardener... :-)
@@hsobstad I have often used a portable air conditioner to regulate temperatures
@@mazdarx7887 We hardly need those around here. Now it is back to low temperatures again. 😀
@@hsobstadIf you were to use slow harder in epoxy you could get 4+ hours of work time even with fast harder you should get 40 minutes.
@@jackdbur True. I just do not wish to use epoxy unless absolutely needed (as on my engine bed) as one cannot go back to polyester after using epoxy.