Worst 8-Bit Book Club Book Ever? The Black Book of C-128

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  • čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
  • For this month's Book Club video, we look at the worst Commodore-related book in my collection: The Black Book of C-128, by Robert H. & Dell Taylor. Claiming to be a vast, authoritative reference, it's actually riddled with errors, unnecessary commas, and sometimes entirely fabricated "facts". We all make mistakes, and typically I'd go easier on it, but this book's advertising campaign was quite aggressive, claiming to be "the best reference manual on the market" and having "not one wasted page" unlike other publisher's books that would tell you "how to un-pack the C-128" and waste "ten pages on what the keys are for".
    This video was originally a patron-exclusive video. Thanks to my patrons for their support.
    To support 8-Bit Show And Tell:
    Become a patron: / 8bitshowandtell
    One-time donation: paypal.me/8BitShowAndTell
    2nd channel: / @8-bitshowandtell247
    Read along at home: archive.org/details/The_Black...
    Link to the RUN magazine shown: archive.org/details/run-magaz...
    End credits music is "53280" by Bedford Level Experiment.
    Music video here: • 53280 (Commodore 64)
    More music here: bedfordlevelexperiment.bandca...
    Index:
    0:00 Intro
    2:29 Vanity Press? Should we go easy on it?
    4:45 Super Help Chart - ripped from Jim Butterfield's SuperChart
    6:45 Why Black Book?
    9:38 How To Use: Colour Coding
    11:17 BASIC 2.0 Dictionary
    16:50 BASIC 2.0 abbreviations, error messages, control codes
    20:45 Color combinations: trial and error?
    22:51 Graphic modes, memory locations, sprite functions
    27:48 Sprite Priorities: Entirely Wrong Information
    30:11 SID: 64 Sound Registers
    32:09 Disk Command Summary
    33:39 Handy POKEs and PEEKs, memory map
    37:24 Dictionary of BASIC 7.0
    44:15 Other sections: CP/M, 1541, 1571 Disk Drives, Conversions
    47:27 Abbreviations, Personal Data
    50:35 Thanks!
  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 266

  • @MrocznyTechnik
    @MrocznyTechnik Před 3 lety +104

    Imagine such manual translated to Polish, by someone with zero computer knowledge. This was the only manuals available for me, when I was 7 and started learning programming. BTW, this was my main motivation to learn English - better books about computers. With near to zero language talent, learning english was very hard, but books about programming and adventure games (no translated versions available yet)was worth of it.

    • @semibiotic
      @semibiotic Před 3 lety +2

      And programming become true discovery ...

    • @nickfifteen
      @nickfifteen Před 2 lety +2

      Legit question: growing up in the 1980s and the whole Cold War thing... I was under the impression that every nation on the Eastern side of the Iron Curtain was basically closed off from the West. Later as I got further into 8-bit computers retrospectively, I saw a TON of stuff for the C64/Atari/etc from Poland (and Poland SPECIFICALLY)... did you guys somehow get Ataris/C64s/etc during the 1980s, or was this all in the 1990s after Solidarity and somehow Poland alone got those systems dumped there? But if you guys got it in the 80's... how did _that_ happen?
      Long story short, knowing what I know about the geopolitical state of the 80's and 90's... it's so fascinating to see Poland specifically being big on those old systems, especially in light of the relative lack of anything from Czech and/or Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania...

    • @MrocznyTechnik
      @MrocznyTechnik Před 2 lety +14

      @@nickfifteen It was possible to go to West Germany and buy Commdore or Sinclair. Border control oficers was not always aware what it is.. an electric typewriter most often :) Large problem was THE MONEY :p When I was 6, (it was in 1988 just before fall of communist regime in Poland) I well remember that Commodore 64 costed 200$. Salary of engineer was 20$/month. My dad (mining engineer) knew the potential of computers and he wanted me to be familiar with such stuff... My parents spent few years worth savings to by Commodore !!! My current position of "fat cat" in IT company I owe to my dad, who in sad and ugly 80s under soviet regime understood the potential of computer science. Second problem was knowledge. There were no books in Polish, my dad knew German and forced me to leard english (by some 6th sense he knew, that English will be most important, and instead of teaching me German, which he knew, he paid for my english lessons (in public school only "correct" foreign language was ofourse Russian. I don't have language skills and I know my english is crappy even now, but all good books and magazines about computers was in english... so I had motivation to learn. Third problem was software. We were extremely poor country, with none copy-right laws for computer software. So there was no official software distributors. All software exchange was about piracy. We had no culture of intellectual property. Everybody wanted to keep his secrets and sw to himself so there was no free exchange. So... 6-7 years old, Commodore, one book in German (my C= was smuggled from Germany) , big passion for computers and my wonderful dad, best paul and mentor, whom I had to say 'goodbye' two years ago because of heart attack :(

    • @MrocznyTechnik
      @MrocznyTechnik Před 2 lety +3

      @@nickfifteen I don't know how good automatic translation will be, but there's a great documentary about this times in Poland:
      czcams.com/video/XSb-PPQEU7k/video.html
      Memories of my 10+ older colleagues, who can tell you more about 80s My 'domain' was rather 90s - Soviet regime has fallen, there was freedom but also big poverty and misery in general.

    • @mortenohlsen7834
      @mortenohlsen7834 Před 2 lety +7

      @@MrocznyTechnik Terribly sorry to hear about your dad. He sounds like he was a great forward thinker.
      Thank you for a very interesting insight into computing in the east block back in the 80s.

  • @granitepenguin
    @granitepenguin Před 3 lety +20

    "BALCK Book of C-128... kinda sums it up" Yes, yes it does. It's easy to poke fun at the errors today, but there's something special about the effort; it was obviously well-intentioned. Thank you for sharing. :-)

  • @Sharklops
    @Sharklops Před 3 lety +18

    I guess the author wanted to give people the same experience they had by requiring them to compile their own notebooks full of corrections and clarifications for The Black Book

  • @benjaminramsey4695
    @benjaminramsey4695 Před 2 lety +5

    "One forgotten comma, " - the best part of the video!

  • @DarkPuIse
    @DarkPuIse Před 3 lety +27

    "It's actually a lot like today where any hoser with a couple hands and a smartphone can make a show about old computers."
    Bob & Doug: "Oh, take off, eh!"

  • @pacman10182
    @pacman10182 Před 3 lety +13

    "any hoser with a couple hands"
    tell me you're Canadian without saying you're Canadian

  • @casaderobison2718
    @casaderobison2718 Před 3 lety +19

    I wrote a manual for the PCBoard Programming Language (a scripting language I developed for PCBoard back when I was an employee of its publisher). I like to think it wasn't this amateurish, but it was just an in house effort, no formal editor, and it is a bit embarrassing to go through all these years later to see the typos and copy and paste blocks that were to be edited but got skipped...
    Writing is hard. I like to think I'd do a better job today, but it is still tedious.

  • @LordRenegrade
    @LordRenegrade Před 3 lety +14

    34:26 - Damn, here I was reading manuals and crap when I could have just poked 255 into the basic skill address location..

  • @denismilic1878
    @denismilic1878 Před 2 lety +5

    My best friend/neighbor got my C64 smuggled by a trucker to Yugoslavia from Germany without a datasette or disk drive. I had a few books in German, Italian or English, but I didn't speak any of them. Imagine every morning hunting words in dictionaries and typing programs in the C64 until afternoon. The worst part is when you turn off the computer everything is lost, tomorrow you must start from the beginning. That didn't stop me slightest. I learned BASIC in one month. After that, I finally bought C64 with a datasette and some kind of cartridge with Turbo tape, Assembler, Simons Basic, and a reset button. That was a revelation, finally, I got two crucial books in the Croatian language C64 Memory map and 6502 Assembly (the worst translation ever). But with that and some weekly magazines (Svet kompjutera (World of Computers)), I was able to teach myself the Maschine language. Imagine how today's kids would react if every time they want to play a game like Pong first they must enter a BASIC listing without any mistake.

  • @XaFFaX
    @XaFFaX Před 3 lety +5

    I died at "THREE AVAILABLE KEYBOARDS". I have an image of a "hacker" with hood over his head and three C64s connected to one display xD.

    • @Okurka.
      @Okurka. Před 3 lety +2

      It's better than 2 people typing on the same keyboard to stop a hacker.
      czcams.com/video/msX4oAXpvUE/video.html

  • @mattpierce5009
    @mattpierce5009 Před 3 lety +18

    "Cornor" sounds like the evil wizard that burned down the village, and only you and your scrappy band of loincloth-clad adventurers can challenge his power and restore peace

    • @judgebeeb1967
      @judgebeeb1967 Před 3 lety +2

      I thought that showed that the C64 was so powerful it could identify the medical cause of death.

    • @ian_b
      @ian_b Před 3 lety

      You forgot that it turns out that you are the Chosen One.

  • @The.Doctor.Venkman
    @The.Doctor.Venkman Před 3 lety +41

    Just imagine the frustration and confusion that this 'reference book' would have caused an unsuspecting reader desperate to improve their knowledge of the hardware.

    • @8BitNaptime
      @8BitNaptime Před 2 lety +1

      Yeah especially when you compare it to the excellent Dan Heeb Tool Kit books.

  • @m0nde
    @m0nde Před 3 lety +39

    Exhausting and hilarious, thanks for putting yourself through that.

  • @ScottHiland
    @ScottHiland Před 3 lety +23

    Not just any hoser with a phone, Robin. An entertaining Canadian hoser.

  • @stevethepocket
    @stevethepocket Před 3 lety +4

    Did anyone else notice how they did the typesetting? The whole book is written in a monospaced font, and in order to keep it all full-justified, they just worded and punctuated everything in such a way that it naturally lines up. That's where most of the random commas and unnatural wording seems to have come from.
    Sadly, the marketing text for this book had a point; I've started going through scans of some of those third-party programming books, and they do tend to waste a lot of pages regurgitating what was already in the official manuals. Too bad this is one of them!

  • @WY.C64-Guy
    @WY.C64-Guy Před 3 lety +4

    This goes to show how everyone learns differently, and maybe points out the shortcomings of other books and reference guides. There is clearly much about the C64 and/or 128 that this person "learned" but never fully understood about how it worked.
    When 6-year-old me was first learning to program in BASIC on the C64, I learned that by typing POKE 53281, 1 I could change the background color of the screen to white, and if I wanted other colors, I could either look it up in the User's Guide, or try different numbers until I found a color I liked. It was much later (probably age 8) that I understood that 53281 was a register on the VIC-II that controlled that specific aspect of the screen display.
    All that needed to happen is for someone to pick any specific topic from this book and ask the author, "Explain why or how this works." If the answer is, "I don't know. I just know that's what I'm supposed to type," then they probably aren't ready to be publishing a book about it.

  • @igorszamaszow171
    @igorszamaszow171 Před 3 lety +11

    I'll be honest, when I clicked on this I thought to myself "well, it can't be that bad anyway" and of course I was wrong. Even some of the parts that are more or less technically correct were worded in a very confusing way. It seems like "trial and error" part from the color chart lede should have been this book's motto.
    Great video as usual!

    • @CodeAsm
      @CodeAsm Před 3 lety +1

      Im happy I dint got to learn C++ in this style atleast, and the BASIC book I had as a child was a bit easier. XD Same idea I had starting to watch this. "couldnt be that bad right? 52 minutes of technicall nerdism?" first 10 minutes "ow boy, this truly seems like a notebook from granny computer nerd writing this on the very computer she wrote it aboot" wait "about" also, no long storys in this one, "no wasted pages"
      why did I even comment? (igor, your comment could have been mine :D thx i sht up now)

  • @ZacCrawforth
    @ZacCrawforth Před 3 lety +5

    LOL'd at "Any hoser with a cell phone"

  • @larrywilliams8010
    @larrywilliams8010 Před 3 lety +4

    The saddest part of that book is that there were two authors, neither of which checked what was written, and they were paid to write that.

  • @chromosundrift
    @chromosundrift Před 3 lety +5

    Such terrible documentation drives me crazy! I've wasted so much time over the years through misdirection or vague descriptions of systems. I care deeply about correct content expressed well. Programmers have to be so pedantic with code so it puzzles me why so many stop short of mastering their native tongue. Anyway, despite this, or perhaps because of this I thoroughly enjoyed this critique! Thanks Robin.

  • @IntlPublications
    @IntlPublications Před 2 lety +4

    Even though being a woman is no reason (and never has been, on the contrary) for leniency. I think it is of merit that the author was obviously an outsider, lexically challenged, who ventured into an already crowded (and male dominated) field with a lot of confidence, spunk, and energy, self-advertising and independent, empowered publishing included. All that is laudable. Error-ridden result is still full worthy of your attention and the attention of your viewership. Again, thank you.

  • @TheHighlander71
    @TheHighlander71 Před 3 lety +11

    This was super funny. It's always fun to go on a fault finding mission. It's clear that this book probably made sense to the person who wrote it. But as a reference it's useless. The multiple different references to "register" in the SID section would have complete confused me if I didn't already know.
    I'm going to quickly go on amazon to NOT find this book.

  • @w00dyblack
    @w00dyblack Před 3 lety +5

    how many kids in the 80's bought this book and gave up on their dreams of becoming programmers and instead became heroin addicts

  • @Okurka.
    @Okurka. Před 3 lety +16

    It's so bad that Robert H. doesn't want his full name on the cover.

    • @MendicantMonkey
      @MendicantMonkey Před 3 lety

      I'd have to guess Robert was the son of Dell, given the introduction/foreword. But you might have nailed it there.

    • @johnbos4637
      @johnbos4637 Před 3 lety +1

      @@MendicantMonkey Robert can't be the son of Dell because the surnames start with different letters. Anyway she mentions that her kids were using the computer so a kid is unlikely to be writing a reference book.....

    • @MendicantMonkey
      @MendicantMonkey Před 3 lety

      @@johnbos4637 I took the "H" in "Robert H." to be the middle initial. If so, it could have been written "Dell & Robert H. Taylor" to be less confusing. Another poor editing choice? She probably wanted to put her son first. The paragraph about her son helping to finish the book ends with, "a hug goes to Robert," but indeed it's never explicit that it is the name of her son. I didn't get the impression he was young, though. She signs the section 'granny', after all.

    • @johnbos4637
      @johnbos4637 Před 3 lety

      @@MendicantMonkey She mentioned her kids took the 128 and were playing with it and she had to buy a 2nd one. Kids live with parents, older kids move out. Since kids are there playing with the 128 they are young. No granny would be using a 128 in 1985/86. She's no granny, she has young kids and no kid is going to be writing a book. It definitely was NOT written as "Dell & Robert H. Taylor". You're making assumptions that have no factual evidence to suggest the connection. You are now just making up stuff to act smart. Here's a hint... you're not.

    • @MendicantMonkey
      @MendicantMonkey Před 3 lety

      @@johnbos4637 I didn't intend my comments to be an attack. We can disagree with civility. However, I don't think it's anymore an assumption to think Robert may be her son than it is to assume his age. He could certainly have been a teenager. That it is this vague is another curse of the poor editing of this book.

  • @LanceHall
    @LanceHall Před 3 lety +3

    Well, I was entertained and I don't even have a Commodore.

  • @weirdmindofesh
    @weirdmindofesh Před 2 lety +1

    I have to admit I giggled every time you paused at one of the errant commas.

  • @Trenchbroom
    @Trenchbroom Před 3 lety +3

    I've spent way too much time in my life reading old Compute!'s Gazette magazines. Love finding videos that show the products that were sold by fly-by-night "companies" such as this book. Thanks for this!

  • @BentonVonKitten
    @BentonVonKitten Před 3 lety +3

    I was half expecting Robin to calmly say: “I think I’m going to just have to set fire to this book…” followed by him lighting it on fire and giggling uncontrollably.

  • @drewduncan5774
    @drewduncan5774 Před 3 lety +10

    This book was written in a manner.
    Joking aside, I kind of love this book. It definitely has character.

    • @nickpalance3622
      @nickpalance3622 Před 3 lety +6

      As long as, comma they are not “graphics” characters.

  • @KryptKicker5
    @KryptKicker5 Před 3 lety +10

    Some MSDN-level documentation right there.

    • @benanderson89
      @benanderson89 Před 3 lety +2

      Microsoft documentation in general is pretty terrible. It's just walls of unbroken text and/or poorly formatted text and/or utterly broken.
      Select for System.Linq.Queryable is a fine example: it's listed as two methods with different signatures in Queryable. Click one of the methods and now you're on a page where both methods are now listed as overloads and there is no definition for Select despite the nav button for definition being there. It's bafflingly bad.

    • @KryptKicker5
      @KryptKicker5 Před 3 lety +1

      @@benanderson89 That's the truth! Navigation is so poor, examples (when actually given) are convoluted, buggy or wrong. The search feature was implemented better 20 years ago. And to top it off, you can determine the decade by the layout code, like they're geological layers. I'm not for sure when it started going so far downhill but it's gotten pretty terrible. Some of the articles make this look fantastic.

    • @tenminutetokyo2643
      @tenminutetokyo2643 Před 3 lety +2

      Back in the day we used to call it “More Stupid Developer News”.

    • @rotordave81
      @rotordave81 Před 3 lety +3

      I found MSDN to be better when it was offline. It was a proper reference then.

    • @LynxSnowCat
      @LynxSnowCat Před 2 lety +1

      @15:49 "... but doesn't tell you how to convert it to a useful number."

  • @Vitance
    @Vitance Před 3 lety +3

    29:42 PEEK with a 2nd value haha, I was CRYING watching that

  • @VincentGroenewold
    @VincentGroenewold Před 3 lety +10

    This feels a lot like a product in the 80's actually. Many coded from their bedroom, there obviously wasn't any Internet and making a book like this was likely also possible in that way. Back then you could find a publisher that had no clue about computers, publish just about anything. In that context, I'd give this some slack, however even then I wonder if it was popular in any way. :) I wonder if the writer was simply dyslexic.

  • @WalterFrancis
    @WalterFrancis Před 3 lety +17

    "I don't even know why I did this" I don't even know why I watched this!

    • @WalterFrancis
      @WalterFrancis Před 3 lety

      I'm glad everyone is taking this as me kidding, I really enjoyed the deep dive into this bit of historical documentation. :)

  • @WarrenGarabrandt
    @WarrenGarabrandt Před 2 lety +2

    The author thinks that a comma means to pause, as in to take a breath, so they put commas in everywhere they would take a breath or pause for emphasis if they were dictating.

  • @tambarskelfir
    @tambarskelfir Před 3 lety +12

    To be fair, Commodore consistently wrote "kernal", which makes "cornor" just a little less egregious.

  • @MaidenAriana
    @MaidenAriana Před rokem +1

    This is one of my favorite little cornors of CZcams ;)

  • @superviewer
    @superviewer Před 3 lety +4

    This was a bloodbath. I do like the binding of this book. Very practical :)

    • @8_Bit
      @8_Bit  Před 3 lety +3

      I prefer spiral binding, but this comb binding is certainly better than "perfect" binding.

  • @DaneArcher
    @DaneArcher Před 3 lety +4

    Yeah, I've always felt like this book was the result of scanning personal notes and trusting in OCR a bit too much to not do things like mistake stray pen/pencil marks as commas or make 0's out of B's. The appearance of lack of editing/proofreading makes this book painful. Made the mistake of referring someone to a chart in this book -- the chart was correct, and thankfully certain folk were quick to remind me that not much else was... :P

  • @stuartmcconnachie
    @stuartmcconnachie Před 2 lety +3

    The commas seem to have been inserted to prevent having to use an extra space as the font and typesetting used is fixed position and fixed width. So it doesn’t allow for justified margins both left and right.
    Personally I’d have gone for the extra spaces (especially so in lines with a full stop already) or just had a ragged right margin.

  • @noland65
    @noland65 Před 3 lety +2

    In a way, it's charming: A middle-aged/elderly woman ("granny") keeping log of what she found out while struggling with the machine and of what noteworthy information she picked up in other publications. Also an effort in organizing it and transcending personal use and understanding - which is also, where it starts transcending meaning.
    Pretty much the Web before the Web. :-)

    • @DMStern
      @DMStern Před 3 lety +1

      I've become so cynical that I found myself wondering if Dell Taylor actually existed, or if this book was just an early example of making up twee stories to sell your product.

  • @painkillergko
    @painkillergko Před 3 lety +2

    I am impressed with your knowledge Robin :)

  • @DavidYoud
    @DavidYoud Před 3 lety +9

    Great rant, and that's a lot of wrong for one book. :D Thinking of the poor souls that tried to learn programming from it back in the day.
    @17:45 I think they get a pass on this particular one (using a space to show it's not a single token). It's similar enough to page 33 of COMPUTE!'s Programming the Commodore 64 The Definitive Guide:
    "Token $A1 (161) then $23 (35). This is GET then #; GET# has no token of its own."

  • @tmilker
    @tmilker Před 3 lety +2

    Needs a follow-up video to show what running POKE 120,0 does on C64 and C128. I loved how you said "Computer will go crazy"!

    • @BenderdickCumbersnatch
      @BenderdickCumbersnatch Před 2 lety +2

      Haha that intonation (35:05) reminds me of Dr. Steve Brule.

    • @Wertercat
      @Wertercat Před rokem

      I tested it in VICE. It stops enter from running the selected line in BASIC, softlocking the computer.

  • @Tom-nt8km
    @Tom-nt8km Před 3 lety +2

    Comment used to leave a comment at a specific place on the screen. Words,Emojis,Punctuation

    • @rotordave81
      @rotordave81 Před 3 lety

      This is awesome, thanks for the laugh.

  • @rotordave81
    @rotordave81 Před 3 lety +8

    I experience this in my daily work and it is exhausting to deal with. It displays an arrogance on the part of the author. They lack an understanding of the content they're writing about but are not self aware enough to recognise it. They elevate their ability in comparing it to others, not realising the effort and experience that went into what others have done. They brag about the book being concise while including useless information about themselves, that only they would find interesting. I find it is disrespectful to the reader to be so indifferent to accuracy. But this only demonstrates their own comprehension ability - as they assume other's abilities are equal or lesser, they don't see a problem. The use of commas is very indicative - "I see commas used in these books - they must be important so I'll just stick some in my writing too!". I doubt the author was ever an accomplished programmer. Your sigh at 31:45 is the greatest moment. Thank you for putting yourself through this. If you have any tips about how you deal with this in your line of work, I'd really like to know!

    • @diamondsmasher
      @diamondsmasher Před 3 lety +1

      Dunning-Kruger effect strikes again!

    • @CommodoreGreg
      @CommodoreGreg Před 3 lety

      @@diamondsmasher Yes, the whole internet now references Dunning-Kruger. So proud of everyone...

    • @silkwesir1444
      @silkwesir1444 Před 3 lety +1

      Tips? You can't _deal_ with it at all. You just have to weather it. That's my tip.

  • @JamesJameson
    @JamesJameson Před 3 lety +1

    All of those grammatical mistakes were frustrating.
    Also, I completely remember seeing that RUN magazine ad. I have a genuine soft spot for those magazine ads in those times - truly the 'wild west' of publishing.

  • @kloakovalimonada
    @kloakovalimonada Před 2 lety +1

    Some people have no business writing technical guides. Most people really, it's a very particular skill that requires deep understanding but most of all, conciseness and clarity. I once just rewrote an entire book about iPad because the original text that I was hired to update was so bad I just refused to work with it.

  • @Doug_in_NC
    @Doug_in_NC Před 3 lety +2

    I’m 10 minutes in, on the “how to use” page cringing and wondering why the author didn’t let a native English speaker proof-read it. Please tell me English isn’t her native language!

  • @GeorgeSauciuc
    @GeorgeSauciuc Před 3 lety +1

    Nice relaxing video!

  • @philipgoddard367
    @philipgoddard367 Před 3 lety +1

    Hey Robin! I really love the videos and you are now my favorite C64 channel. Where can we either download your end of video music or purchase it? I find myself listening to the music over and over and it would be great to have some of your stuff to play back-to-back while I’m tinkering on my Ultimate64. Hope all my commas are in the correct locations. 😉

    • @8_Bit
      @8_Bit  Před 3 lety

      Thanks, a bunch of my music is here: czcams.com/users/BedfordLvlExperiment and bedfordlevelexperiment.bandcamp.com/
      Some of the songs I've been using for the video credits haven't been released at all though; eventually I'll try to get those bundled together into another album.

  • @kippie80
    @kippie80 Před 2 lety

    I watch this video multiple times to hear "any hoser" in context. Gets me every time.

  • @ejstacey
    @ejstacey Před 3 lety +1

    The nicest, most soft-spoken, Canadian CZcamsr (that I watch) ripping into a book with his superior knowledge is very funny.

  • @LordmonkeyTRM
    @LordmonkeyTRM Před 2 lety +1

    Take a drink for every, miss placed comma.

  • @BrainSlugs83
    @BrainSlugs83 Před 3 lety +1

    Poke 120,0 -- "Computer will go crazy." -- Best reference manual ever.

  • @mikegarland4500
    @mikegarland4500 Před rokem

    "Maybe editors aren't such a bad idea. You know, maybe I should use an editor. Why'd I even make this episode?" lol
    That's funny! 😀You crack me up.

  • @aner_bda
    @aner_bda Před 3 lety +3

    Comma, is a hard punction mark to use.

  • @scottfromderby
    @scottfromderby Před 2 lety

    "uh... I don't even know why I did this" made me laugh :)

  • @retrotechnerd
    @retrotechnerd Před 3 lety

    I love old programming books. Do u have any zx spectrum or Z80 MC/ASM programming books? Also if u have books on retro game programming would live to see a video or recommendations on that. Cheers!

  • @Darxide23
    @Darxide23 Před 3 lety +2

    There's some truth in advertising for this book. It literally is a collection of scrap notes and torn pages typed out into a book. And all the grammar of the average Twitter user. Amazing.

  • @mrmimeisfunny
    @mrmimeisfunny Před 3 lety +9

    I honestly feel bad for the grandma who spent ages compiling all the information and you just metaphorically rip the book apart

    • @Flashy7
      @Flashy7 Před 3 lety

      Yes, me too, a little bit. Her goal was right, but teaching your son through your hand written notes is not the same as publishing a book (a book that wants to be the best reference book).

    • @rotordave81
      @rotordave81 Před 3 lety +2

      If it was a work of fiction, I could almost agree. However, this is intended to be a reference book, professionally published to make profit. Readers would have been mislead and given insufficient information to achieve their aims. Imagine you bought a textbook and failed your class, would you still feel sympathy for the author?

  • @superscatboy
    @superscatboy Před 2 lety +1

    Not gonna lie, I *really* want to see a concert with 76 C64s marching on parade.

  • @larryh8072
    @larryh8072 Před rokem

    I love your reference to hosers. I can tell you’re a proud Canadian. Good day eh!

  • @HeffeJeffe78
    @HeffeJeffe78 Před 3 lety +3

    I know a few of those hosers...

  • @Sharklops
    @Sharklops Před 3 lety +1

    Those commas, are killing me.

  • @rarbiart
    @rarbiart Před 3 lety +3

    They went far above their heads.

  • @scottfike9755
    @scottfike9755 Před 2 lety

    Robin, what is the highest/fastest baud rate number modems that the C-128 will support and work with? Thanks!

    • @8_Bit
      @8_Bit  Před 2 lety

      With the built-in serial routines, just 1200 baud in 1 Mhz mode and 2400 baud in 2 Mhz. With custom serial code routines (I think Novaterm 9.6 had this?) I've heard up to 9600 bps. With a Swiftlink or Turbo 232 cartridge (hardware UART) it can go to 38400 or higher.

  • @customsongmaker
    @customsongmaker Před 2 lety +2

    According to tbe book itself, it was written by a delusional housewife who bought a C128 so she could copy the user's manual into her own book without using the C128 at all. It takes a severe narcissist to think people need you to tell them what's in the user's manual they already have.

    • @michaelcobb1024
      @michaelcobb1024 Před 2 lety +2

      I don’t know how someone could decide that it’s a good idea to write a piece of technical documentation for a device they’ve never actually used

  • @scottfike9755
    @scottfike9755 Před 2 lety +1

    Robin, can you recommend an outstanding book for the C-128 that no one should be without? A kind of 'has-it-all' or 'teaches-it-all' volume? Thanks

    • @8_Bit
      @8_Bit  Před 2 lety +1

      The only really good C128 book I'm aware of is the Commodore 128 Programmer's Reference Guide. It's on archive dot org if you can't find a physical copy. There may be others but I haven't explored what's available for the C128 nearly as deeply as the C64's library.

  • @buttguy
    @buttguy Před rokem

    Their comma key cap was probably worn all the way through to the switch. Holy moly.

  • @CraftMine1000
    @CraftMine1000 Před 2 lety

    "why did i even make this episode?"
    *existential crisis intensifies*

  • @JohnDlugosz
    @JohnDlugosz Před 3 lety +2

    Just reading the back cover, I see a comma where it makes no sense and a fragment. That makes me suspicious of the writing within.
    Remember, until fairly recently, published books were made by professionals with a lot of effort, and that included careful copy editing and line editing. In the 80s there was a much higher standard of literacy.
    Continuing the video, I see you found that is the case.
    8:40 Wow, that writer really doesn't know how to use commas! Why can't people simply ask someone -- anyone -- to review the text before publishing?

  • @IntlPublications
    @IntlPublications Před 2 lety +2

    Considering that the vast majority of the commenters here is in the masculine domain and the early era of home computing, just like the present, is also (still) dominated by men, I think it should be of note (no reason for leniency) that the author of the book was a woman.
    On a different note: I want to thank you for your book club! I love seeing these books in their materiality, with details of contents and typography, presented by a very engaging and friendly voice. Also you seem to take great care of your fingernails!

  • @codahighland
    @codahighland Před 3 lety +1

    If it helps things make any sense: In music, an instrument might have multiple "registers" where the tone quality is different. A clarinet, for example, has a "register key" that must be held open to play high notes, and these have a somewhat different texture to the lower notes. I suspect this is the meaning intended when referring to the voice registers.

  • @davefarquhar8230
    @davefarquhar8230 Před 3 lety +3

    Wow, that was painful. But now I know how much the 1571 weighs!

  • @bitset3741
    @bitset3741 Před 3 lety +4

    The author, likes commas, in, his tid-bits,, apparently, don't, you?

    • @rotordave81
      @rotordave81 Před 3 lety

      If, in doubt just, put a comma you'll, get it, right eventually.

  • @williamsquires3070
    @williamsquires3070 Před 3 lety +1

    Remember, it could be worse. I could be X number of totally blank pages, or it could be just random pages written in Mandarin Chinese, Klingon, or Dwarvish (or all three)! You have to keep perspective here. A good sense of humor helps, too. 😋 Or it could be a long string of 1’s and 0’s, that you have to break into 8-bit bytes, and POKE into the memory of a CBM Pet, which turns it into an interactive ad application for the book in question! Wouldn’t that be a hoot?

  • @rhandeymaahrsch2151
    @rhandeymaahrsch2151 Před 3 lety +2

    Dunning and Kruger would be proud, comma,

  • @johnwells558
    @johnwells558 Před 2 lety +1

    question is this book worth having, just for a collection point,

    • @8_Bit
      @8_Bit  Před 2 lety +1

      Yeah, I still think it's collectible, just don't pay much for it, and don't look to it for good advice :)

  • @Fuzy2K
    @Fuzy2K Před 3 lety

    ",,,,,chameleon" -- The author's favorite song lyric

  • @EmilOppelnBronikowski
    @EmilOppelnBronikowski Před 3 lety +2

    I was pretty understanding for 50 minutes, I wrote way too many pages of non-comprehensible "manuals" for work and hobby stuff. Knowledge transfer is a hard thing. But then I saw BALCK BOOK.
    Listen, you need to get your title right.

  • @BenderdickCumbersnatch
    @BenderdickCumbersnatch Před 2 lety +3

    This book has the same vibes as random CZcams programming tutorials "Recorded with HyperCam 2", with a notepad document to type the dialogue instead of speaking. You get the feeling that an idiot is trying to teach you. The worst thing about bad programming books is that you eagerly learn incorrect information which you have to painstakingly unlearn later, so this book doesn't deserve some "A for effort" reward. It is harmful and does damage to new programmers. It was fun seeing you rip into it.

    • @BenderdickCumbersnatch
      @BenderdickCumbersnatch Před 2 lety +2

      Another comment here summed it up perfectly: "how many kids in the 80's bought this book and gave up on their dreams of becoming programmers and instead became heroin addicts"

  •  Před 3 lety +2

    Wow. This book's style and quality reminds me my own childhood notes on C64 programming, which were eeeer not always accurate and sometimes only guessworks ... :)

  • @jaras1969
    @jaras1969 Před rokem

    This made me so glad that I kept my old "bible" Commodore 64 programmer´s reference guide.... Wish i still had the old bread bin though....

  • @na5y
    @na5y Před 3 lety

    Brutal takedown ;) and a fun video

  • @CJ-rf9jm
    @CJ-rf9jm Před 3 lety +1

    A better title would've been the nefarious tome of bbs myths. It really does read like those brag sessions written by those who tried to impress everyone but really knew nothing.

  • @haweater1555
    @haweater1555 Před 2 lety

    I remember that the C64 systems in high school, even with the 1701 monitor, would show illegible characters under maximum contrast of black characters and white background. At home I just used an old B&W TV most of the time (and only occasionally taking the system to the living room colour set) as we couldn't afford the proper monitor if we didn't absolutely require it.

  • @jakubkrcma
    @jakubkrcma Před rokem

    18:33 I lost it there, again. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @BertGrink
    @BertGrink Před 3 lety +5

    In the section about the SID chip, I think the author uses the term Register in its muscal sense, where it usually means a certain range of notes that an instrument or a singer can produce. For example, the human voice is divided into Bass, Barytone, Tenor, Alto, Mezzo-Soprano, and Soprano registers.
    On church organs and related instruments, it also has the added meaning of timbre, e.g. Diapason.

  • @anovaprint
    @anovaprint Před 2 lety

    I will not be using this manual in my educational journey lol but I do love a good book review!

  • @seekingagreatperhaps6391

    The building Value-Soft was in is now a ...typewriter shop.

  • @logiciananimal
    @logiciananimal Před 3 lety +1

    The fact that BBSes are mentioned suggests that the author had a modem; hence a modem manual. That's *maybe* where some of the weird stuff in the glossary might be from - it struck me as being signal processing-y.

  • @twobob
    @twobob Před 11 měsíci

    THREE AVAILABLE KEYBOARDS. SPAT MY COFFEE aaaaaaaLL OVER THE COMPUTER AHAHHAHAHAA

  • @rarbiart
    @rarbiart Před 3 lety

    those anecdote passages are borderline patronizing.

  • @MyManicmonday
    @MyManicmonday Před 2 lety

    haha... the good thing is, while listening to your explanation of those erros, i guess i can learn something :-)

  • @Starchface
    @Starchface Před 2 lety

    I think the "UNUSED" locations on pages 46-47 are the unused zero-page locations, so there is actually something of use to programmers of assembly-language on the Commodore machines. That said, the Balck Book is dreadful indeed. From the anecdotes, I suspect this was a family project, so having the manuscript professionally reviewed and copyedited was likely out of the budget. I would describe the book as half-complete. An enormous effort would be needed to get the book into a proper state for publication. Barriers to entry exist for a reason!

  • @aresaurelian
    @aresaurelian Před 2 lety +1

    This is quite a lovely memory. I do understand the purpose of the book and why it was formatted the way it was. I do agree with the editors lacking though. The intent was good.

  • @IDPhotoMan
    @IDPhotoMan Před 3 lety +1

    Oh those commas! My eyes and ears! lol

  • @marcuslundblad6977
    @marcuslundblad6977 Před 3 lety +2

    "Cornor", kinda reminds me of "kernal" :-)

  • @rkadowns
    @rkadowns Před 3 lety +2

    Why did you make this episode? Good question. Glad you did anyway. Always good to hear your voice.

  • @MattKasdorf
    @MattKasdorf Před 3 lety

    Fun video, but skimmed thru a lot of it as I didn't want to pick up any {more} bad habits.