@@rob3812 What information would satisfy you? A large amount of comments on this review reference recent frame flex concerns on Grand Design products. These concerns aren't a result of "trolling". There certainly seems to be reputation damage as a result of these reports. Other manufacturers didn't have to put out a frame flex press release this week. I am aware that Lippert builds the frames but they build them to manufacturer specifications. So either Grand Design's specs need revision or their quality control checks of their delivered frames need to be better.
Robert, the RV Inspection And Care YT page (almost 50K subscribers) says Momentum is the best Toy Hauler in its price range (i.e. $125K MSRP) . After seeing all the comments here about frame failure, I am scared away from GD, but what would you recommend?
@@stevereid9913 Steve, I readily admit that I do not follow Toy Haulers as I own a motorhome. So I am reluctant to give you advice. You might avoid the issue by looking at a used Toy Hauler before Lippert started making the frames at the direction of the RV manufacturers. My understanding is that it is the larger toy haulers which are mostly affected. Rigor RV repair recently did a good video on frame flex/failure. Good luck.
@@robertroth287 Thank you. I am going to try just looking at Toy Haulers that don't use Lippert frames. Would that help, or do they all use Lippert frames?
I would like Don Clark to personally address the frame failure issue with the owners. Slipping in a section on their website about frames was a bit sneaky. Be upfront with us and recall the impacted units immediately.
Yes people stay away until grand design fixes there serious issues. Far too many people are under water with there products!💯 This is not a reflection on Matt he’s got a job to do!
@@johnhironimus1197I only started to believe after watching dozens of videos of Grand Design owners showing viewers their bent and cracked frames on CZcams and explaining the problems they have encountered trying to resolve the issue😊
The recent Lippert and Grand Design “PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN” disgraceful frame flex and quality control debacle has definitely come home to roost😮😮😮
@@rob3812 You are correct, but they build frames to the manufacturers specifications, so if Grand Design is trying to save money by ordering borderline inferior frames then they hold equal responsibility👍and frames bending and breaking has been largely a Grand Design issue which has to make you wonder😬
@@rob3812 I was just told that Montana and Alliance are starting to have the frame issues, so maybe it is mainly a Lippert problem and not a Grand Design problem👍
I’m disappointed that grand design wanted to argue about terminology of “ frame flex” vs “fame failure”. Instead of just acknowledging a problem and fix it.
I'd like to know what if any changes they're making to stop Frame Failure, because as it stands when I buy a new toy hauler this year Grand Design won't even be considered. Disappointed that Matt didn't bother to ask. Grand Design needs to show what is being done differently or tons of customers like me won't even give them a chance
Duane from the RV Inspection And Care (48.8K subscribers) says Momentum is the best Toy Hauler in its price range. If you don't like this brand, then what do you recommend in this price range? (i.e. $125K MSRP) . I am asking because we're about to buy one, and I thought this was a good brand. But then I saw all these questions about the frame failure. Not I am scared away from GD, but what would you recommend? PS. I am a fan of Matt's channel. That's what brought me to this video.
If Grand Design doesn't implement significant changes to their structure, I won't consider owning another one. My experience with a 2017 399th model was riddled with problems. The trim consistently fell off, rubber molding on the front popped off, soft plumbing hoses connected to PEX fittings popped off, there was floor rot on the side patio and rear ramp/deck, and cracks appeared in the gelcoat from the bottom of the bedroom slide on the outside. Initially, I was told some of these issues were normal or attributed to user error, and I partially believed it. However, upon selling it and reflecting a few years later, I've realized it wasn't my fault but rather flaws in their design and frame flex issues. In essence, regardless of their flashy features, until they rectify their quality concerns, I won't consider purchasing another one.
Do you know of a good 5th Wheel Toy Hauler brand that doesn't use Lippert as their frame manufacturer? A Toy Hauler that doesn't have frame flex issues? i am looking to buy a Toy Hauler in the next month.
Matt and Will this video proves you guys are not for the consumer when it comes to RV ownership. This video shows how much your team favors the RV manufacturers. We have lost all respect for you guys. Not one single word about “Frame Flex or Frame Failure “ whatsoever!!!
Duane from the RV Inspection And Care (almost 50K subscribers) says Momentum is the best Toy Hauler in its price range. Jeff, what brand do you recommend in this price range? (i.e. $125K MSRP) . After seeing all the comments here about frame failure, I am scared away from GD, but what would you recommend?
@@stevereid9913 Honestly, I would shy away from the toy haulers right now due to this "frame failure or frame flex" whatever you want to call it. The RV manufactures and Lippert need to come clean on this issue and take ownership of this issue......🤠
Also we want to call for a boycott on all Grand Designs products and all CZcams channels that are connected to Grand Designs products. You know who they are viewers. You can start with Matt’s CZcams channel!!!
Very Nice! I actually Love the Floor plan that Tara and Chad have. That 410TH is the one I’d get if I was getting a Toy Hauler. We really Love their Solitudes❤️
Matt I know you sell RVs, that’s your job, but going to the GD factory and just pretend that nothing happens with those particular units is an insult to the people that have serious issues with the frame flex and the poor quality that those RVs are built .. this is just another tactic from GD to forget about the issues and ignore the customers .. please don’t be part of that .. if I’m you I would just delete this video
Matt, why not mention frame flex/failure? I love the GD Momentum but am seriously concerned about the frame . I’m in the market but nervous abut their product. RS Brett
Thy are working to fix it there web site says. It is the behind the seen you don't know. Which thy need to tell us all . How there fixing it on the new ones
Matt, I think that GD should doing what they can to relieve front end weight. One of the easiest mods they could do is for every toy hauler they make that comes with the half bath option, have it include a SECOND set of full washer and dryer hookups so folks can have the option of moving those heavy items in the garage. It's a no brainer. Next, like you said, many folks use these as bedrooms and not for garages. That being said, create the option when ordering to extend the flooring in the unit in to the garage still keeping the d rings, eliminating that rubber flooring and side wall diamond plating. This is the same thing they did for Changing Lanes in their 410TH.
Hi Matt and Wil I love when you go to the factories like this and they give a review on their product. This I think has great floor plan. Thank you for you all for showing this Momentum.
Nice unit but I would think if your spending that kind of money you would at least get a Rotoflex pin box and a large grab handle for the garage entry door . Why skimp on those 2 things
Alot of "frame" comments. Take note, they are utilizing a newer design frame not prone to the failure. I have not seen a single failure from a Rhinobox Frame. I don’t think they ever mention it because it may show as an admission of knowing they had a problem. The Rhinobox Spacesaver design is 40% stronger due to structural design and the shorter bolt on pinbox.
I feel like this is an abuse of your popularity to assist a manufacturer in the gaslighting of customers, Matt. Zero respect. Will I avoid watching your videos? **Bing!**
The factory review presentation is nice. Mr Booth did a pretty good job with his walk through, but he missed some doors outside (was there an outdoor TV?), some cabinets, and he did not even open up the half bath in the 'garage'. In some ways it seemed like he was distracted during the filming. This M Class layout is quite nice.
Well my Reflection fifth wheel has been great. My few dealings with their customer service was extremely good. I speak with Grand Design owners almost every trip I take. The vast majority of them are happy with their RV.
Yea I was looking to buy the 15 ft garage until I found out about everyone have issues with that flex stuff and company not fixing it and being rude to customers. Sorry for your loss of a customer.
1:10 I’ve noticed that it’s hard to hear you, Will or Andrea when y’all turn away from the camera as well as when you’re outside. Have ever considered wearing microphones?
I agree there is a frame issue on some models and not all of them! But this topic is like airplanes, you only hear on the news the one that crashed. You never hear how many successful flights take off and land every day. I own a GD and absolutely love it, when shopping in its price point nothing on the market even compared. Yes there has been a view things rattled loose, but its expected when your pulling a hollow box 60mph down these shit roads…
I will absolutely buy another Grand Design because I am one of the hundreds of thousands of happy Grand Design owners. Great products and great customer service from my personal experience.
Just another frame problem waiting to happen, no one will give fair trade in valve due to frame issues step up GD make it right !!!! buyer beware this might be a sinking ship
This unit along with the 415G has the newer designed Rhinobox frame that is 40% stronger. I've tested the 415G per Lippert's test and after 12k miles and shows no movement.
Stupidest kitchen layout EVER! 1 person can barely fit, not to mention the person cramped in there trying to do dishes will have to constantly move for anyone trying to access the fridge. Why are design teams not thinking of the practical use of these campers has homes??
Matt, I'm deeply troubled by this review for several reasons: Omission of Known Issues: Your failure to address the excessive frame flex issues, a significant concern among RV owners, is glaring. This omission makes it appear as though you're avoiding the 'elephant in the room.' Trust: By not discussing major flaws, it undermines the trust that your audience places in your reviews. Viewers expect comprehensive and honest assessments, not selective coverage. Viewer Disappointment: Many of us rely on your reviews to make informed decisions. Ignoring such a critical issue could lead viewers to make purchases they might regret, based on incomplete information. Ethical Concerns: Not addressing serious defects raises questions about the integrity of your reviews and whether external pressures or relationships are influencing your content. Lost Opportunity for Impact: As a respected voice in the RV community, you have the platform to drive improvements by holding manufacturers accountable. This was a missed opportunity to advocate for quality and reliability. This approach compromises your credibility and does a disservice to your viewers. We need you to be a voice that champions truth and thoroughness in RV reviews.
Really poelpe. Iam on roas lots.i Really don't see but few of thus kind..y can't more be up front and severs after the sale like new guys..BRINKLEY....Y..?
Grand Design's reputation is in the black tank.
The entire RV industry is kind of sucking lately.
Back up your statement or you just trolling
@@rob3812 What information would satisfy you?
A large amount of comments on this review reference recent frame flex concerns on Grand Design products. These concerns aren't a result of "trolling". There certainly seems to be reputation damage as a result of these reports. Other manufacturers didn't have to put out a frame flex press release this week.
I am aware that Lippert builds the frames but they build them to manufacturer specifications. So either Grand Design's specs need revision or their quality control checks of their delivered frames need to be better.
I'll never buy one, again. Worst RV I've ever owned. 2015 Momentum 380TH.
Not asking about the frame flex issue was a bad move. Not backing their customers up who have suffered these issues will be their PR nightmare.
Robert, the RV Inspection And Care YT page (almost 50K subscribers) says Momentum is the best Toy Hauler in its price range (i.e. $125K MSRP) . After seeing all the comments here about frame failure, I am scared away from GD, but what would you recommend?
@@stevereid9913 Steve, I readily admit that I do not follow Toy Haulers as I own a motorhome. So I am reluctant to give you advice. You might avoid the issue by looking at a used Toy Hauler before Lippert started making the frames at the direction of the RV manufacturers. My understanding is that it is the larger toy haulers which are mostly affected. Rigor RV repair recently did a good video on frame flex/failure. Good luck.
@@robertroth287 Thank you. I am going to try just looking at Toy Haulers that don't use Lippert frames. Would that help, or do they all use Lippert frames?
I would like Don Clark to personally address the frame failure issue with the owners. Slipping in a section on their website about frames was a bit sneaky. Be upfront with us and recall the impacted units immediately.
Can we chip in and get these guys a 9 volt battery?
Yes people stay away until grand design fixes there serious issues. Far too many people are under water with there products!💯 This is not a reflection on Matt he’s got a job to do!
Number 1 in frame failure also.
What proof do u have of that
@@johnhironimus1197I only started to believe after watching dozens of videos of Grand Design owners showing viewers their bent and cracked frames on CZcams and explaining the problems they have encountered trying to resolve the issue😊
@@johnhironimus1197checkout the latest from @HBRVLifestyle. He has some data.
lol this clown. A lot of proof, this is a $hit company!
The recent Lippert and Grand Design “PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN” disgraceful frame flex and quality control debacle has definitely come home to roost😮😮😮
Correct me if I am wrong. 95% of manuf build on a Lippert frame?
@@rob3812 You are correct, but they build frames to the manufacturers specifications, so if Grand Design is trying to save money by ordering borderline inferior frames then they hold equal responsibility👍and frames bending and breaking has been largely a Grand Design issue which has to make you wonder😬
@@rob3812 I was just told that Montana and Alliance are starting to have the frame issues, so maybe it is mainly a Lippert problem and not a Grand Design problem👍
I’m disappointed that grand design wanted to argue about terminology of “ frame flex” vs “fame failure”. Instead of just acknowledging a problem and fix it.
Frame flex is a Lippert issue not the manf that build upon their foundations.
Dave here - missing lag bolts are an OEM problem.
It is both of the problums
@@romaldemgle5867 whole industry has a big problem
@@rob3812It’s an attachment issue with the walls and the frame ! The walls and roof help support the frame .
I hope they fixed frame problems
When is this company going to acknowledge the massive frame failure and outright negligence!
I'd like to know what if any changes they're making to stop Frame Failure, because as it stands when I buy a new toy hauler this year Grand Design won't even be considered. Disappointed that Matt didn't bother to ask. Grand Design needs to show what is being done differently or tons of customers like me won't even give them a chance
Duane from the RV Inspection And Care (48.8K subscribers) says Momentum is the best Toy Hauler in its price range. If you don't like this brand, then what do you recommend in this price range? (i.e. $125K MSRP) . I am asking because we're about to buy one, and I thought this was a good brand. But then I saw all these questions about the frame failure. Not I am scared away from GD, but what would you recommend? PS. I am a fan of Matt's channel. That's what brought me to this video.
Good historical video before the crash of GD.
Frame failure comes at no additional cost!
Actually I hear that option adds 10's of thousands to the price tag actually lol
If Grand Design doesn't implement significant changes to their structure, I won't consider owning another one. My experience with a 2017 399th model was riddled with problems. The trim consistently fell off, rubber molding on the front popped off, soft plumbing hoses connected to PEX fittings popped off, there was floor rot on the side patio and rear ramp/deck, and cracks appeared in the gelcoat from the bottom of the bedroom slide on the outside. Initially, I was told some of these issues were normal or attributed to user error, and I partially believed it. However, upon selling it and reflecting a few years later, I've realized it wasn't my fault but rather flaws in their design and frame flex issues. In essence, regardless of their flashy features, until they rectify their quality concerns, I won't consider purchasing another one.
Do you know of a good 5th Wheel Toy Hauler brand that doesn't use Lippert as their frame manufacturer? A Toy Hauler that doesn't have frame flex issues? i am looking to buy a Toy Hauler in the next month.
Matt and Will this video proves you guys are not for the consumer when it comes to RV ownership. This video shows how much your team favors the RV manufacturers. We have lost all respect for you guys. Not one single word about “Frame Flex or Frame Failure “ whatsoever!!!
Duane from the RV Inspection And Care (almost 50K subscribers) says Momentum is the best Toy Hauler in its price range. Jeff, what brand do you recommend in this price range? (i.e. $125K MSRP) . After seeing all the comments here about frame failure, I am scared away from GD, but what would you recommend?
@@stevereid9913 Honestly, I would shy away from the toy haulers right now due to this "frame failure or frame flex" whatever you want to call it. The RV manufactures and Lippert need to come clean on this issue and take ownership of this issue......🤠
Not changing the batteries in their building’s smoke detectors is now another reason why I will never buy a Grand Design.
lol
Why and how can they do a video with the smoke detector chirping
G.design needs a quality control department
Please show the Frame Flex before the walk around!
I've owned a grand design once. I told myself I'd never buy another. But really this looks good. 😮
Show how much ‘frame flex’ is at the hitch pin please! … it’s very easy to show 😮
None on these units with Rhinobox frame. The frame issue is on units with the old design #1621.
I had a G.D. build quality very poor, service even worse!
Winnebago’s Folly. Should have Chosen the Customer over the Low Bid.
Also we want to call for a boycott on all Grand Designs products and all CZcams channels that are connected to Grand Designs products. You know who they are viewers. You can start with Matt’s CZcams channel!!!
Yeah I’m sure the other manufacturers are really worried about GD right now….
Very Nice! I actually Love the Floor plan that Tara and Chad have. That 410TH is the one I’d get if I was getting a Toy Hauler. We really Love their Solitudes❤️
Matt I know you sell RVs, that’s your job, but going to the GD factory and just pretend that nothing happens with those particular units is an insult to the people that have serious issues with the frame flex and the poor quality that those RVs are built .. this is just another tactic from GD to forget about the issues and ignore the customers .. please don’t be part of that .. if I’m you I would just delete this video
Matt, why not mention frame flex/failure? I love the GD Momentum but am seriously concerned about the frame . I’m in the market but nervous abut their product. RS Brett
Thy are working to fix it there web site says. It is the behind the seen you don't know. Which thy need to tell us all . How there fixing it on the new ones
Matt, I think that GD should doing what they can to relieve front end weight. One of the easiest mods they could do is for every toy hauler they make that comes with the half bath option, have it include a SECOND set of full washer and dryer hookups so folks can have the option of moving those heavy items in the garage. It's a no brainer.
Next, like you said, many folks use these as bedrooms and not for garages. That being said, create the option when ordering to extend the flooring in the unit in to the garage still keeping the d rings, eliminating that rubber flooring and side wall diamond plating. This is the same thing they did for Changing Lanes in their 410TH.
I got up twice once to check my smoke detector and then again for my CO detector. Can someone run to the 99cent store for batteries plz!! 😅😊
I would love to see the outside patio drop down and check out the ramp...and know how much weight they can handle.
Hi Matt and Wil I love when you go to the factories like this and they give a review on their product. This I think has great floor plan. Thank you for you all for showing this Momentum.
And we also want to thank them for not addressing any of the build issues that are affecting GD at the moment…
I'm loving the factory reviews!!
Another great video, Matt. Do you know if this Grand Design has frame flex issues? Do they use Lippert as the manufacturer of their frames?
....silence....
Don't move it !!!! It may break in half!!!
LMFAO
Nope. You couldn’t give me a GD anything. They have totally botched this frame failure issue. They are not the company they once were.
Still have rubber frame issues?
Nice unit but I would think if your spending that kind of money you would at least get a Rotoflex pin box and a large grab handle for the garage entry door . Why skimp on those 2 things
I like that toyhauler and I'm not a toyhauler guy, but I can see myself getting this for myself.
Alot of "frame" comments. Take note, they are utilizing a newer design frame not prone to the failure. I have not seen a single failure from a Rhinobox Frame. I don’t think they ever mention it because it may show as an admission of knowing they had a problem. The Rhinobox Spacesaver design is 40% stronger due to structural design and the shorter bolt on pinbox.
1:37 company spoke holes, u bolts for the axels over torqued, and considered dangerous to tow,
I feel like this is an abuse of your popularity to assist a manufacturer in the gaslighting of customers, Matt. Zero respect. Will I avoid watching your videos? **Bing!**
Frame flex ?? Frame failure ?? Nothing!!!
Flexing issues....horror stories
And hundreds of thousands of happy customers. A few loud mouth CZcamsrs looking for clicks isn’t a reliable source.
Grand designs frame is failing faster than America is crashing.
Weird, there are manufacturers offering the Cummins Onan 7000 gas generator
Yes K-Z Venoms all day long.
Im afraid to buy anything from Grand design
The factory review presentation is nice. Mr Booth did a pretty good job with his walk through, but he missed some doors outside (was there an outdoor TV?), some cabinets, and he did not even open up the half bath in the 'garage'. In some ways it seemed like he was distracted during the filming. This M Class layout is quite nice.
Matt is funny when he's not in charge. Not so sharp.I just learned something after viewing this video.
Don’t think I will ever buy a fifth wheel after the issues with frames
Grand Design selling the propaganda. Why didn't you address the frame issue?
6:58 in contact with the DOT, lets see what they say.
"Don't Sell Your Soul To Buy Peanuts For The Monkeys" Dorothy Salisbury
Very nice! 👍🤘Thank you! Thank you! 🧡🍊🧡
Heard from 100's rver's there quality & customer service is trash...Bad as Lund boats..if you use it,warranties are void for use/wear n tear..
Well my Reflection fifth wheel has been great. My few dealings with their customer service was extremely good. I speak with Grand Design owners almost every trip I take. The vast majority of them are happy with their RV.
I go a G.D. rv and I love it. C.S has alway be good to me to fix thing I need fixed
Matt, love you and your channel but this puff piece while ignoring the elephant in the room is very disappointing.
Grand Design is the king of frame failure. Buy it at own risk. You been warned.
Yea I was looking to buy the 15 ft garage until I found out about everyone have issues with that flex stuff and company not fixing it and being rude to customers. Sorry for your loss of a customer.
Would rather have bigger shower and smaller sink
Oh no
Please contact the DOT
My G.D. IS A MESS
Sorry to hear but your story needs to be told!
137 thousand for frame problems I wouldn’t buy this !!!
Is that the smoke detector beeping 😒
1:10 I’ve noticed that it’s hard to hear you, Will or Andrea when y’all turn away from the camera as well as when you’re outside. Have ever considered wearing microphones?
I agree there is a frame issue on some models and not all of them! But this topic is like airplanes, you only hear on the news the one that crashed. You never hear how many successful flights take off and land every day. I own a GD and absolutely love it, when shopping in its price point nothing on the market even compared. Yes there has been a view things rattled loose, but its expected when your pulling a hollow box 60mph down these shit roads…
I would not buy anyone's 5th wheel . No one is telling us anything about the problem of the truth of fame failure .
Never buy anything from GD absolutely terrible product never buy this I have 6 figures into one of these
I will absolutely buy another Grand Design because I am one of the hundreds of thousands of happy Grand Design owners. Great products and great customer service from my personal experience.
Very nice I love the RV Matt you are the man!!! 😀
I just hope you don’t buy one😮😮😮
Just another frame problem waiting to happen, no one will give fair trade in valve due to frame issues step up GD make it right !!!! buyer beware this might be a sinking ship
This unit along with the 415G has the newer designed Rhinobox frame that is 40% stronger. I've tested the 415G per Lippert's test and after 12k miles and shows no movement.
Stupidest kitchen layout EVER! 1 person can barely fit, not to mention the person cramped in there trying to do dishes will have to constantly move for anyone trying to access the fridge. Why are design teams not thinking of the practical use of these campers has homes??
Never will buy another one .
To much money for the build quality, how much frame flex or felure?
To much money for the build quality, how good are the frames ?
Matt, I'm deeply troubled by this review for several reasons:
Omission of Known Issues: Your failure to address the excessive frame flex issues, a significant concern among RV owners, is glaring. This omission makes it appear as though you're avoiding the 'elephant in the room.'
Trust: By not discussing major flaws, it undermines the trust that your audience places in your reviews. Viewers expect comprehensive and honest assessments, not selective coverage.
Viewer Disappointment: Many of us rely on your reviews to make informed decisions. Ignoring such a critical issue could lead viewers to make purchases they might regret, based on incomplete information.
Ethical Concerns: Not addressing serious defects raises questions about the integrity of your reviews and whether external pressures or relationships are influencing your content.
Lost Opportunity for Impact: As a respected voice in the RV community, you have the platform to drive improvements by holding manufacturers accountable. This was a missed opportunity to advocate for quality and reliability.
This approach compromises your credibility and does a disservice to your viewers. We need you to be a voice that champions truth and thoroughness in RV reviews.
great walk thru. Grand Design is by far one of the best manf on the market.
Yes, if you want to have a frame failure.
I think lippert makes these frames for all Manf. So your labeling the entire market@@meggewatts
@@rob3812 there are plenty of CZcams channels that have data to show 90% of them that are reporting them are one manufacturer.
@@rob3812so why is GD the only one having major frame failure issues???
Their sales have dropped in the last 12 months and still dropping
Frame is going to break - STAY AWAY
It’s so disappointing to see Matt & Will kiss GD’s ass.. I thought they were better then this
Really poelpe. Iam on roas lots.i Really don't see but few of thus kind..y can't more be up front and severs after the sale like new guys..BRINKLEY....Y..?
Couldn't even watch the video, the smoke detector chirping was driving my dogs crazy so I couldn't listen to the audio.