An alternative view on the Equal Dragon Weapon
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2022
- I'm a little all over the place, but maybe this will get people thinking and discussing this concept in a different light.
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I LOVE MONSTER HUNTER
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I think the Equal Dragon Weapon would be an awesome background setpiece. Like, maybe in a revamped tower map, you can see a crack in one of the walls, and you can just barely make out this enormous hanging silhouette, but can't actually reach the room it's in.
That'd be so haunting and cool..
Maybe you would see it's remains scattered about the arena where an elder dragon (such as Fatalis) resides symbolizing the triumph of nature over man.
i wonder if MH made that mantis mech pilot in response to the equal dragon myth, they seem to have a thing with myth being wilder than reality.
I think part of the appeal of Equal Dragon Weapon is that unlike every other monster in the series it's truly unnatural. It isn't just invasive or out of control, it simply doesn't belong in this world and needs to be destroyed. That's a really compelling idea for a fight.
Plot twist the equal dragon weapon is actually just the dummy in the training area of Rise
Ah, yes, the Equal Tetranodon Weapon
Behold, the ultimate weapon- A WOODEN TOAD! with this we shall SLAY GOD!
I don't see this talked about much, but going through the pre-MH1 concept art, it's pretty clear that the team has gone back over the years and retooled some of those ideas into things that work for what they have now. The most obvious one would be the Insect Glaive and Kinsects. Another possible example is that they revisted some of the earlier monster concepts, like how the two-headed mummy snake could have been the inspiration for what became Nakarkos. Along the same light, the Equal Dragon Weapon could've served as the base inspiration for Ahtal-Ka, which quite literally constructs a weapon equal to a dragon.
Now that I think about it, EDWs head looks suspiciously similar to certain iterations of fatalis armor.
In the same book as the Equal Dragon Weapon there is a concept very close to what would be Vaal Hazak
Honestly i dont really mind it being canon, since it doesnt really affect the MH games.
Just a nice tidbit of background lore to dabble into. it also makes fatalis absolute and unbending hatred for humanity understandable.
It remembers what humanity did and wants to wipe the entire species out just so they dont get the chance to reach such heights ever again.
I think that the aggressive behavior of Fatalis has been humanized in narratives. so... it can only be hatred that drives him
and the games are shaped by these narratives. have you seen the endboss teaser for MHGX?
fatalis doesnt need any more motivation beyond the fact that the ancient civilization absolutely decimated nature and killed a shit ton of elders to construct a tower, thats preety much an analog to the tower of babel. mankind defying god (although this interpretation has been contested over the years but still). the euqal dragon weapon remains a pice of concept from early drafts of what the games world was supposed to be like. i wouldnt mind it being canon either, its not unfitting, but truth is that it isnt, not until capcom decides to directly mention it in some form, directly or indirectly. but one is free to consider it part of their headcanon, no problem in that.
A detail from Iceborne that I love is that after you slay Safi’jiiva, the Seeker muses on how Safi manipulates its environment so that it can thrive, even to the detriment of other creatures nearby, much like humans do. Seeing this, the guild had to decree that it be slain, or risk an environmental catastrophe. If Safi’jiiva had the means or motive, would it have seen humanity as too great a threat to ignore, and set out to eliminate them in the exact same way?
More that Fatalis doesn't want humans to have the technology again to be tempted to do such atrocities again knowing they can. and also hates them for doing it to begin with even if modern ones would never want to.
He's an angry boi who sadly has to be put down to end his suffering and rage.
Having a Monster Hunter Title maybe set in the last days of the ancient civilization could be incredibly cool, giving everything a more primitive feel with ancient monster species and so on but I suppose this would also come with a lot of difficulties... like weapontypes available and so on but holy hell I'd love to see more about the fall of the ancient civilization and the ruins always give me a sense of wonder and everything gets a mythological vibe from the old and forgotten structures ... well maybe not so forgotten after all but surely very old.
The ancient civilization was far from primitive lol, they are in facts the opposite
@@jasonmagnes4467 oh yes that was certainly the wrong word ... maybe there world views were "primitive" to MH universe standards but yeah the technology was quite something for sure. Thanks for pointing that out.
Or perhabs some extinct species that don't exist in the main games
@@BloodyWyverian not to mention that since that civilization was so advanced, it'd be reasonable to have them have all the modern weapon types and maybe even introduce some new ones not in the past games. (it has been a while since we've gotten a new weapon after all)
Or a title set in the normal time where the Commission is investigating newly found ruins of the Ancient Civilization and coming into contact with new monsters and subspecies near the ruins, perhaps even mutated by ancient technology.
Guild Researcher Serizawa: The arrogance of the Hunter's Guild is thinking nature is in our control... and not the other way around. Let them Turf War.
That wyverian bastard, he always hold humanity progress to become the greatest. Nature must bow over us.
_All the human in Ancient Civ before they fall
"I don't care about ecology, biology or lore at all. To me, MH is just about hunting monsters"
Okay... so let's say that's true.
Q: How do you make the hunt more exciting? A: By making more interesting monsters
Q: How do you make more interesting monsters? A: By giving them interesting ecology, biology and lore.
I really hate that I have to spell it out for those fools.
Those who do not care about ecology but praise Rise Kushala over World Kushala because… it’s ecology
🤡🤡🤡
I mean, it's somewhat analogous to people looking at Valstrax and screaming ROCKETPOWEREDELDERDRAGON or thinking Magnamalo is so cool without their anatomy, lore, ecology lifestyle or anything about them making much sense. These monsters are pretty much only liked for the fight and their inherent "coolness" and most people are all over them. Meanwhile you have extremely interesting monsters with very well thought out places in the world (Legiana, Yian Kut-Ku, Barroth) that many just go "eh" over.
In summary, I really like watching the Unnatural History Channel
@@eser8167 YES
The sad fact is that from what we see with rise, mh is going towards a more "Is it cool" instead of "Does it make sense" approach in the new games.
@@DireNemesis I think it's mostly a Mainline-Portable divide that started with some of the over-the-top monsters of P3rd and only got more outrageous with Generations and now Rise (back in Freedom Unite days they very much had the same approach, just look at Tigrex and Nargacuga and compare them to Zinogre or Magnamalo). Mainline kept the original vision with World's mostly original roster, which will probably remain the same with MH6.
The only problem is that fans keep demanding their favourites to be included in every game even if they would be extremely out of place, which means that the outrageous portable monsters will make their way over to mainline et vice versa. Another issue is the monsters left behind like Yama Tsukami, Shen Gaoren, Qurupeco and so on.
Just in case you need to read a comment that convinces you that what you're doing is right? Here it is.
I have desperately wanted a channel like yours to articulate how old school hunters feel moving forward with the direction Monster hunter is going.
You're right, you've been right on every take so far, keep going. Please.
Same
I'm not much of an old school hunter, my first MH Game was MH3, which was one of the older ones, but most of my experience is with world, and recently Rise, although I remember a few features from 3 I wish were in modern MH games and don't like rise for oversimplifying things.
I think my ideal monster hunter game is basically MH World but with more of the simulation like elements from old school monster hunter- reworked to be less bullshit and more fun.
For instance paintballs. Make it an ability with infinite uses you always have with you, and it can return as our method of monster tracking. like a slinger that marks a monster. honestly though I like the scoutflies cuz it lets you find a monster through tracking.
I want the emphasis on proper preperation for a hunt back. Have a limit on how many different weapons and gear sets can be taken with you on a hunt to the camp, and how much camp can restock items, and stop giving away massive amounts of items to new players, let them prepare and craft its part of the experience.
No need to overdo it, but it's barely there at all in MH Rise and a bit too little in World.
@@zeehero7280 to that'd be dope
I remember in Iceborne the elder nomad guy with the insect glaive mentioned something about the guild's hubris and if their path is the best course for humanity (something in that vein don't remember the exact wording) when you talk to him right after you beat Alatreon.
The point you made about humanity trying to conquer nature really makes me feel that World was in a subtle way trying to worm in some ideas for future titles that the way the guild does things isn't the best way to go about things, and that they should look for a better way to coexist with nature and try to understand it in a less forceful way than what we're used to, without upsetting the balance to the point where black dragons swoop in and out as multiple warnings to an eventual calamity.
MH is (according to my head cannon) a collapsed interstellar biopunk civilization stuck on a planet. That happens to have low gravity and large monsters as a result of it. Humans are biologically altered ( enhanced healing, wyvernians, those dwarves, the giant wyvernians that are referenced in older games), so are many animals palicos, some wyverns and plants like firebombs. They've lost most of their tech since the collapse the only remaining historical references to it being the azure star, which is either a space station or the star that was originally their home.
The "dwarves" are wyverians too, they just tend to get really small as they get old.
This is pretty much my head cannon as well, you did a great job articulating it!
Both the giant vyvernian and the dwafs are regular wyvernians.
@@wintersong2266 the dwarves he's referencing may be those bearded fellas from Harth in gen 4.
Though while I do think this is really interesting, doesn’t it seem way too outlandish for this universe?
*[Hub G★4 Urgent Quest]* Sins of Our Fathers
*Objective:* Destroy the Equal Dragon Weapon
*Area:* Terminus Depths
*Reward:* 100,000z
*Client:* Old Dragonslayer
"Many years ago, a forbidden act was committed, and everyone paid the ultimate price. Now their old sin has returned to haunt the living world once more. Please destroy this abomination and sever our ties to our forefathers once and for all."
Honestly i would love this
@@god5656 Approved by God. Can't get any better than that.
@@ProfessionalNamielleLewder69 yes
I like to think that the Equal Dragon Weapon concept was used in a way and it is Fatalis, an unnatural man-made elder dragon with the strength of many, Fatalis could fit that description and it would make sense that it's anger towards humanity actually came about because of its creation.
Fatalis as a bio-weapon/artificial elder dragon is an absolutely nuts idea
Imagine it was / they were (since there’s probably more than one) made to be immortal and cannot die unless something stronger kills it, but it was designed to be the strongest thing in the world, and because it is artificial and doesn’t have a place in nature it sits alone at the top of its tower
Man these are some heavy discussions you are having about Monster Hunter. Philosophy about chaos :D
Regardless for me the ancient civilization and their war against the monsters does ring true to some extent.
If you look at the rusted and ancient weapons it's clear that they, very much fought against monsters.
And contrast that to how the guild operates today trough keeping balance in the nature where we don't just hunt monsters to exstinction, but make sure that monsters don' cause too much havoc near the settlements and towns. E.g Only hunt or take a quest when it's necessary.
And that idea of keeping the balance had to have come from somewhere. It's the same idea of the current world we live in, it's that we wont ever be in harmony with nature until we realize we have destroyed nature entirely. (Or nature destroys us) So it's my belief that the Ancient Civilizations fall represents the hubris of human kind ignoring why nature exists and after seeing the rise and fall of so many civilizations they had to come up with a solution and that is to keep the balance instead of becoming the destroyer.
Now, 5ht gen does kind of forget this, especially in Rise. Even if most of the rampage ballistae etc. are for defense. It's clear that their technology has exceed what I would call "harmony". But then again, the Rampage is quite a phenomenon even within the monsters usual behavior so I guess it requires a response equal to it.
Yeah my view has always been similar to this. The way I see it the new Guild philosophy on keeping a balance with nature, hunters are professionals, poaching is punishable by death, and hunts are tracked to an extensive degree, even quests with frivolous descriptions are probably weighed on their environmental impact and how large populations of monsters are. It's watched over so closely that it's telling what must have happened before. Julius goes into it in that Monster Hunter short on netflix a bit even.
With the way Bioenergy works, and how Elder Dragons contain so much of it and, on death, spread it through the world, how much it super-grows plants and animals, the entire world is reliant on the flow of Bioenergy. To me its pretty obvious what happened, the Ancient Civ over-hunted Elder Dragons to the point that the resulting Bioenergy scarcity screwed up the ecosystem and caused a mass extinction. This killed off the Ancient Civ and many of the largest elder dragons, what we have left today are the surviving species (or in the case of some like Fatalis, individuals who survived) that repopulated the world as it recovered.
mh has had ballista for a while now as a purely defensive structure against monsters attacking strongholds, rise's technology isn't really that far advanced compared to say, mh4's Demolisher, a siege weapon in dundorma that fires pure concentrated dragon energy
@@noodle4542 Except it is. Dragonators were a rarity left out by the ancient civilization. They were not scattered around everywhere.
Even in MHWorld there's a reason they only use one dragonator against Zorah Magdaros. Cause that's all they have. In Rise Dragonators are everywhere like they're a commodity.
Ballistae and cannons were for sure a thing, but they had huge drawbacks of being slow. Now the cannons shoot multiple cannonballs and ballistae is rapidfire and you have gatling guns as well. Maybe the technology was there to be able to make these things, but I always felt like there was a reason they didn't.
The reason was that it results in destruction. People will want to start using them outside of defense towards their village and start using them for offence.
In 4U even the demolisher is something you can only use once. Not only do you have to use a limited resource to use it, but lore-wise it also destroys the cannon.
In Rise Demolishers are multi-use on a cooldown indicating they've perfected the technology.
Dragonators aren't that much of a rarity. Their installed in sets of four on the gen 1 fortress, and their installed on the front of Jhen Mohran hunting vessels, which are a pretty decent sized fleet as a couple of examples, a few games even have them installed in the arena. Sure their uncommon but that's due to their nature as large stationary defense siege weapons.
The splitting wyvernshot while similar in function to the demolisher is also a visably smaller and much different cannon than the demolisher. Then there's also the distinction of the fact the splitting wyvernshot is more a high calibre standard explosive round than pure dragon energy
Technology and harmony are not mutually exclusive. they could have lasers and flying robots and be more in harmony than if they were banging rocks.
Not that I want more than dragonators and stonepunk contraptions, airships and such. by the way MHGU had airship fleets, so it's not just 5th gen. MH4 had Jhen moran with sand boats and cannons and grappling hooks. Nothing is really new in 5th gen outside splitting wyvernshot... which is a big boom lol.
For the equal dragon weapon to be in the game, i would made it initially more like a plot point, the guild found some ruins and they are trying to dig into whatever is there, and they ask us to defeat the monster around the place so they can dig it. At the end, the equal dragon weapon is found and it is activated by mistake, and start to wreck destruction on both nature and civilization. We are send to fight it but it proves to be way stronger than expected. The quest ends after some time and we need to fight it at the outskirts of whatever or HUB is, during battle, an elder dragon actually comes to fight the dragon weapon sowe can beat it.
This would play into the themes of the game. Showing the rampant destruction of nature that civilization can cause if it gets unchecked, and it can only be sucessful if it can find a middle ground to coesxist with nature itself.
With my first game being Rise, I honestly wasn't expecting this series to have ever gotten philosophical or tried to be. Pretty good video overall!
Thank you very much Jakob for the awesome video, and loved to hear your thoughts on equal dragon weapon, i think as well that it should be cannon. It would be a shocking moment to see such a heavy morale question being brought up on new monster hunter titles, it would be incredible.
I would much rather Monster Hunter be vague and indirect. Sure, drop hints about EDW but we should never have to interact with it. I would much rather have the player try to figure out the story of these past nations but never fully knowing and in the end coming up with theories, never facts. I feel like it would add to the idea of civilisations rising, falling and being forgotten at the end of time. Knowing more and more about that history really takes away from that.
There is war canon to the franchise though, the G rank Dah'ren set mentions, I think it's warlords of desert kingdoms to the west. As well as mercenaries, such as Alfonso, who fought only for his ideals, as in the description of 3u's Nibelflage Prototype, and Revolution, as in Generations' Insurrection Cannon. Given all this, it might not be the only answer that the Equal Dragon Weapon was built to wage war upon dragons, but also perhaps upon fellow man. What could force your opponent into surrender better than having an artificial dragon you fully control? I don't think Dundorma was built cleanly when we're aware of countless commodities and ores in villages and maps, it'd be very easy for such a strong city to offer exclusive trading links, dragon watch, the deployment of their hunters, and other services, in exchange for mining rights. And maybe some of those villages were unwilling to engage in these deals at first, so they needed showing the magnitude of the threat they faced. *Wink wink* they totally colonised most villages and installed puppet rulers for cheap resources, I mean.
I’ve always pictured the kingdoms that fell, fell because after so many lifetimes of advancements they didn’t have to resort to hunting anymore and as such lost the power that was capable of building such awesome kingdoms. Kinda like that one saying that hard people create easy times and easy times create easy people, and easy people create hard times and hard times create hard people in this case people that are able to fight building sized monsters that on occasion have some divine unexplainable powers
This shows the creativity of these people, but it also shows their fears, even without meaning to, they made a world destroyed by an old war, but instead of rolling over and taking it, they made news lives for themselves, really amazing
Videos like these make me appreciate monster hunter that much more.
I want the EDG to be a enemy
I want the realization that ancient civilizations try to reach godhood and that's what destroyed them, this would be in line with the post-war and the overall theme of human conquering nature
If you make it a weapon of the players/the guild/village in my opinion you're making them the villains and are taking the conversation in a completely different direction where humans of the actual era (in the games ofc) are not just delusional in their pursuit to conquer nature but greedy and somewhat evil, that's a more obscure narrative that in my opinion doesn't fit well with the rest of the themes
Also, great video, you deserve a lot more subscriptions dude
My friends hate me for this theory but...
Safi'Jiiva is the closest canonical representation of EDW we have. not only does it closely resemble EDW in certain characteristics like color and size, but it is a virtually artificial dragon. While most, if not all, elder dragons are forces of nature, Jiiva is antithesis to that. It feeds on the life nature has, draining the land to sustain itself and power cataclysmic abilities. Safi is a true world ending creature that is born from the energies expelled from dying elder dragons. And TWO were born by the time base World ended. It could easily be assumed that the Xeno larva cannot drain the land of energy until it reaches adulthood, when it goes through metamorphosis.
We know the ancient civilization or an aspect of them were grounded in the New World as seen by pottery, and more strongly, Kulve taroth's domain. The weapons taken from the battle mention that they are ancient weaponry melted to Kulve. it is safe to say that not only was this specific location home to the ancient civilization, they were wealthy because of the road of el dorado.
What I'm getting at is, an extremely wealthy location at the cusp of a supposed war with elder dragons could have made a way to utilize dead dragons into a weapon. but perhaps were wiped out before they could finish it. only to have whatever means they created for such a project to passively continue working for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Creating its own lure for Elder dragons ultimately seeding the vast ecosystem of the New World by creating an elder dragon graveyard where it siphons expelled energy to create something catastrophic.
Silly Jakob. Dragons aren't bombs, chaos doesn't exist and Equal Dragon Weapon is already canon!
Jokes aside this is great stuff, I always thought of the EDW as this super edgy stupid thing that would never fit MH cause it would too dark and it'd have nothing to do with it but when you put it like that and if we just take what it could represent for MH and the guild's shady business I think there's actual potential to include it in some form eventually. I don't really want some "dragon war" but it would be nice if they would elaborate or rather point to different old civilizations being destroyed by humanity's own mistakes and arrogance messing with nature. People should make more mistakes in MH and sometimes monsters should cause drastic destruction rather than us being able to stop them moments before always.
If they ever add the Equal Dragon Weapon, it should immediately fail them and the guild would be like “shit, yeah that was a bad idea and a waste of time”
I personally would be on the side that rather than a war, the ancient civilisation should have caused a series of ecological disasters through their endless hunts of elder dragons. I think it would fit the themes of human hubris and the foolishness of trying to take over nature better.
@@pikminjake While that would be thematically good and all with humanities hubris to control nature and placing ourselfs above it, only for that control to be immediately lost. I think it would also just be kinda funny.
I want to kill chaos
Man, the amount of details Monster Hunter CZcamsrs are able to go into shows just how far the Monster Hunter movie could have gone to explain the deep lore of the series outside of the games. And just couldn't commit and execute it.
But seriously a movie series or even a TV series for Monster Hunter, that isn't a spin off, isn't non canon, that actually takes place within the canon world outside the games would be awesome if it's done right. And could be what Capcom needs to put more strength behind the lore and reveal what they want.
This is a stretch on my part, but could it be that the game setting was a result of post war, but as time moves and people forget the impact and/or people that do remember die off they dropped the ideas unintentionally? They could have also just dropped the subtle themes to attract a wider audience that only cares about killing monsters and that makes sense too.
it's funny you talk about the equal dragon weapon like this
i would really love to hear your thoughts about MH Stories 1. If you want to just consider similar ideas applied to that instead. There is of course the blight, the EX monsters and everything around the final boss to talk about.
(i don't know if you've ever talked about it before. it's a different kind of gameplay too, but in its design and direction it's raw undistilled monster hunter)
in my opinion, I'd like it implemented in one of two ways:
1. background easter egg, like dalamadur (or dalamadur-like) skeletons on rotten vale, something you can barely see in specific places in a ruin map or
2. a way to implement ahtal ka in future games, perhaps a variant you fight in ruins intead, and it uses a already existing manmade metal dragon skeleton, maybe the original ahtal ka already is meant to represent this but it honestly feels way too goofy to be the EDW
6:30 I would love to see the weapon come back as a way to fight a large monster, like the battles on the boats (with the monster I forgot the name of). But, you lose control and something takes over. Maybe thay one boss that was an I sect with a giant mech, giving it a second chance to shine and making sense since we already know it can do that
One thing I noticed about Rise and Sunbreak is how hostile the humans' attitude towards nature is. It's especially obvious in Sunbreak where a monster they just encountered is called a DEMON FROM HELL. Compare how 4U's plot was; yes, Shagaru Magala was a catastrophe, but it was never characterized as villainous by the characters, and we see it as a natural animal that grows and develops. We know basically nothing about Gaismagorm beyond its relationship with the Qurio and the characters aren't curious in it otherwise.
It's very weird and, when combined with the gameplay shift towards getting to the action faster, I'm not sure I like it. It feels like Sunbreak has shifted from "living with nature" to "conquering nature".
In a way, the Qurio are just as bad as the Frenzy. Not to mention that Gaismagorm is an elder dragon that even nature rejects(ed), because of its symbiosis or perhaps even being the origin of the Qurio.
Living with nature can mean protecting it from overwhelming threats, and those threats require no half-measures to beat. That doesn't mean being tactless or wanton, but to know what you're up against.
It kind of makes sense that we don’t get to much info on what happens in the past as their is to much going on in the present to focus on such thing.
I'm fairly new to Monster Hunter as a series, and I don't interact with fandoms much, so what follows might be a little off-base, but anyway...
The "discourse" (tm) around the EDW, Ancient Civilisation(s), and the Dragon War reminds me a lot of the unreliable sources incorporated into The Elder Scrolls series, especially the likes of Morrowind. Except, where that was a deliberate narrative element meant to make the world seem more mysterious, most of the unreliable narration around the EDW is community driven. Instead of characters in the games expressing conflicting views of their in-game history, it seems like people in the community around the games have heard of the EDW and assume it's canon while others stress that it is only part of a first draft that was left on the cutting room floor. Meanwhile, the games don't make any reference to the EDW at all (that I know of).
Also, the idea of the EDW reminds me of Numidium and Akulakhan from The Elder Scrolls.
To be fair in game there is no point of bringing up the EDW unless it´d be involved in the story somehow. Plus it makes sense that most villages or expeditions that the games tend to start in wouldnt have the faintest clue about it, since the guild keeps it´s existence a secret and all. I doubt your average guild maid would be told about an unholy abomination stashed away in some hidden guild warehouse
@@Darknessblade4me The difference there is that the situation that you're describing where most people are ignorant of something and only a few people know the truth is exactly how a lot of the lore is handled in-game in The Elder Scrolls.
Ordinary people know very little about what is going on and when you start the game you don't either.
Then, if you get invested in the story and the worldbuilding, you can increase your degree of understanding.
In TES, that's part of how the worldbuilding is handled: most people know only a little; a few people know a lot about something.
The key is that the information is still in the games somewhere.
In Morrowind for example, hardly anyone knows about Akulakhan (an artificial god being built inside a volcano by a mad ash-wizard), but Akulakhan is still in the game.
By contrast, the EDW in MH is only mentioned in an art book. It is not a topic of discussion in the games. Instead, all the disagreement surrounding it is between fans of the games, like right now.
The difference is that in The Elder Scrolls the characters disagree about what's going on. In MH, the fanbase disagree about what's going on.
@CGS クトヒョウ Because nobody specifically told me not to.
The reason is that there are elements of unreliable narration in both franchises, but TES uses it in the worldbuilding, while MH seems to have it spring up mostly in the community.
E.g. MH fans disagreeing about the dragon war or the EDW based mostly of an interpretation of an artbook.
Currently making a monster hunter dnd campaign… because I can… and the final boss is the EDW. It’s a concept I’ve always been fascinated in, and I have the creative freedom to use it since I’m not publishing the campaign. I’m also introducing a four headed elder named Rasnombros, which will be the capstone to a New World arc I’m putting my players through. Again, creative freedom. Let’s have fun with it.
I absolutely love how much the old school monhun community overlaps with godzilla sometimes
Honestly my love for monster hunter has really taught me to love nature and animals. Makes me want to become a animal control officer lol.
sometimes nature is cruel jack, and I'm very in touch with my inner odogaron!
One of the best example of what your talking about exist in the hunter x hunter chimera ant arc. It hits all the right notes to moral and philosophical questions to nature and humanity’s struggle to control and fight it. Another great example is Parasyte the maxim, fantastic show all about this concept. Highly recommend if you haven’t seen either.
While I don’t think mh has ever intentionally tried to go with this concept and a lot of what your interpreting is in your head, I’m with you 100% on wanting it in the series and done competently ad well. We’re not in a state to implement it right now but maybe if we’re loud enough Capcom could hire the right people later down the line.
To me mh has only really been missing one thing, not atmosphere or character, certainly not the hunts, but a masterpiece story because this is a series that deserves it. My only hope for sunbreak, because it’s shown it’s good for everything else, is a good story. If it can do that, it’ll be easily tied with 4U and Iceborne maybe even exceed them. Hope you and everyone else enjoys sunbreak because it’s looking very promising.
This is unrelated, but I need some help with something. I am currently working on a Monster Hunter short novel. it is primarily set in Pokke Village and is a revenge story about a young, rookie huntress whose veteran hunter father is brutally killed by a Deviant Seregios (I am calling it the Stormblade Seregios) with my protagonist's core desire and motivation is to slay the Stormblade Seregios.
Narratively speaking, what do you think should be included in the plot of my novel? I intend it to primarily include Second and Forth Generation monsters.
Imagine what would happen if the equal dragon weapon getting infected by the frenzy virus. Like after fighting along side it and completing our goal by defeating a certain dangerous elder it gets infected somehow or has gone rouge and we have to face it, that would definitely be a great way to show that we humans can't control nature or nature has ways to protect itself from humans.
A good writer knows you don't elaborate on things you leave blank. Monster Hunter's lore, events and timeline are best left vague and open to interpretation, it doesn't limit the setting, it lets us the audience speculate and draw our own conclusions and it's more interesting.
I agree but with a personal exception. I believe the story SHOULD use the ideas if there is a solid reason to. Never letting the writers go beyond "cool concept you didn't see because you werent around but feel free to speculate" feels very limiting. I'm not saying to write in time travel or something to force the situation where the character gets to see the events unfold, but if it ties into current happenings naturally it's fine by me. All about execution of writing I guess xD
@@AFarCryAway precisely, that's why (IMHO) World and Iceborne "story" felt, somewhat, cohesive enough to make it engaging to follow through. And also why moments like Ruiner Nergi making an anime comeback to finish off Shara Ishvalda, or the revelation that Safi'jiiva is a "matured" form of Xeno were so satisfying to watch.
At least that's how I feel considering MHW is my first ever MH, in case you can't tell.
@@AFarCryAway I agree, a good idea shouldn't be wasted but as you said it comes down to execution. My issue is that many franchises have been ruined by origin stories and the need to expand on lore. Metal Gear is a great example in how to do it well (MGS3) and how to drop the ball (MGS4, MGSV).
I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a fan of some of Jakob's takes on the lore nor the themes of the series, I think he stretches aspects of the lore to fit his interpretations. That said, that's the beauty of MH, it allows for this level of discussion and speculation and whether I agree with him or not I can't help but feel his passion.
A lot of this would be lost if Capcom goes like "A thousand years ago, something something, humanity conquered the dragons, something something, equal dragon weapon, something something, dragon war". What's funny is even if they did people would still want more lore.
@@TheMaerx Well said and I can totally see where you're coming from here. It really does seem like a preferences thing but with execution being a key aspect involved.
I do wish they would at least admit the EDW exists
I think what Capcom should do is have an area where you fight an elder dragon and as part of the arena, there is a heap of what is left of the ancient man made dragon weapon. It would symbolize the triumph of nature over atrocities of man.
6:42 there is no limit to human control, because just like failing is something natural to humans persisting till you get it right also is, the question is not if humans will or not become god, but when will humans become god.
pretty sure the equal dragon weapon was a tossed idea that they workshopped into valstrax
I can totally see, if they go for a "Human made Dragon", it would be a revived Lao Shan Long, with parts of other monsters, on a siege mission, and that it falls appart on the Hunters and not stopping the current treat, but thats purely gameplay ideas.
Story wise i dont think they will do anything like it, we saw what they would do if they power up monsters and hunters in Frontier ZZ, the good thing about just making another vilage to save every new generation, its that they dont need to create bigger and bigger monsters each time, they can do it in like, Generation 2 in a few years, but just like a special thing, not something that would change the game in the future.
I always thought the EDW would make a nice boss in Monster Hunter Stories, since those games are about the bond between a rider and their monstie (Or Humjan and Monster)
The EDW represents mankinds desire to control nature, while the Riders teach to live in harmony with nature. Tho not in an "actual" monster hunter game
What a treat this was :)
Seeing a dragon war in the future would be a nice new story imo or just some monster war in general.
YOOO JAKOB IS BACK
Tbh even the EDW is a myth this dragon gives me a PTSD out of nowhere, this thing has a similar look to a dragon called Ygg Drake from Ragnarok Odyssey Ace,
a Monster hunter Game-like from Ps vita
And one of the hardest secret super boss in the game
by reacthing 200 floor in tower of yggdrasil
So my main take about this is that we are the story, 10/10 haha
I'm a huge lore nerd and would love to get more lore bits in future games, it's almost Dark Souls like in its subtlety (even though it's pretty light), "post war" or "post apocalyptic" is very fitting imo. What's going on with the ruins, the old civilizations and how could humanity even set a foot in this crazy world?
Totally agree that it would be kinda cringe if they introduced it as a final boss or something, I'd love to see the weapon in a climatic scene and I wouldn't mind a fight against it, but please not with people talking about it like in MH World. It should be a background piece as someone else mentioned or appear in a cutscene, maybe even in a final battle arena.
Not sure if Monster Hunter could ever get some sort of climax though, a game series like this one needs a big villain, a final confrontation - but a "mother of monsters" or whatever would be even more cringe. Fatalis was amazing already, but the games kept introducing bigger and more dangerous baddies
The Equal Dragon Weapon. A mockery of nature through the vision of the feeble minds of mortal man. For them, the flesh of the dragons are akin to fluid, capable of being reformed, reshaped, or remade to however its fabricator may fancy. What could have been.
I like the idea of non-canon stuff being myth and rumor. It might not exist, but that doesn’t matter really. The fans treat them kinda as myths already, and that’s how they should be.
I don’t think I want the Equal Dragon Weapok to actually be in a game, though I’d like it to be alluded to.
well in my head cannon the equaldragon is the fatalis so hes been here since the beggning
It could be a nice fight tho if its introduction is nicely done, like the guild having found it in some ancient civilisation ruins and then tried to reactivate it to help the hunter to defeat idk like the fatalis or something strong, only for it to go berserk (maybe because of a malfunctionning mid/after fight) forcing us to stop it. Afterwise guild could be like "Maybe playing gods is what brought the ancient civilisation to its end and this was a warning for us"
I pray for the day we get a hunt involving an EDW be it a map of an ancient civ parts of the EDW or we actually fight one...I hope it's the latter
They already used this concept of humans trying to control nature in order to become a god/savior of mankind but failed in the end, they did it in the first MH Stories title with Dr. Menelger and he using the stones and armor enhancements for the monsters, the game bring up to the table both the diference in being one with nature as a Ride or as a Hunter and at the same time bring up that it is not what the Dr. Menelger is trying to do, he wants the control over the nature.
imagine an 8 player siege where 4 players have to fly this thing
I feel if included, it SHOULD be a fight but not the whole set piece. Like they activate one in response to a powerful Elder Dragon no one thinks the current hunters can handle, it goes out, but a blow (maybe shown during a cutscene) causes it to break free of control and go on a rampage. You're sent out to quell the weapon. It's damaged and not very accurate due to the previous fight thought still dangerous....but maybe a quarter into the battle you hear a roar and the Elder Dragon it was sent after drops in suddenly and finishes it off, starting the ACTUAL fight. The Guild and Village/city/whatever now have to rely on the hunter to do what they thought the EDW only capable of.
I remember when MH generation just come out and the comunnity teorize about valstrax saying it was a equal dragón 2.0
The virgins "it's just a myth it's not canon" vs the Chad "I dont care I want huge monstrosity from ancient civilization to fight"
You know it just a concept
@@yamatorisan doesn't matter frontier monsters coming to mainline games was a "concept" to alot of fans but look where we are and look at the news of them when they acknowledged it again
I view Chaos as my favorite flagship monster from MH4U
So if the equal dragon weapon is The nuke, I suppose elder dragons are more the deadly natural disasters present in japan(floods, earthquakes etc) which although “natural” are different to animals and other nature in that they cause direct damage but are unstoppable for the same reasons as normal nature. Or maybe not idk.
Which monster hunter game are you playing in the background of this? I'm new to the series and it looks cool
Looks like a mix of Monster Hunter Frontier, Monster Hunter World: Iceborne and slightly modded Monster Hunter Rise, (its expansion Sunbreak just came out), it’s easily the most accessible the series has ever been, just takes a bit of a learning curve. NOTE: do NOT mod your game unless you’re ok with Sunbreak destroying your save file, lots of people were raging when Sunbreak dropped the other night.
There is evidance for multiple different "ancient civilizations" but not for one that once ruled the world in its entirety.
The ruins scattered all across the monster hunter world can not be from the same civilization, the way these structures are build are way to different, there could be a connection between some of them but the Tower is obviuously from a different time and culture then for example Castle Shrade, or the Coral Palace.
I would love to see EDW in a new game. I I think it would be sick to have it as a haunting background peice that subtly looms over the player throughout the game. During the end of the game it's activated but goes berserk and has to be hunted.
I love the concept of " we couldn't kill God so fuck it, we will make our own" but it goes horribly wrong.
Unfortunately as much as I love modern monster hunter I doubt we will ever see EDW since it probably would heavily clash with the more upbeat tone.
MH1 and Dos were probably the only times EDW would probably appear if they never scrapped it.
Id always had the headcannon that the equal dragon weapon is fatalis, and was supposed to be a weapon to be used against humans hence why it looks like a generic fantasy dragon - to strike fear into its human avderasies. The fact that you can't blind it with flashbombs or KO it by hitting its head could indicate that its not following natural morphology, esp since alatreon is susceptible to those things. How in some topples it'll lie completely unnaturally still, amongst its other oddities.
How dare you stole my essay on how EDW is just the giant god warriors from nausicää before I do !
Joke aside , reading the first art book really show you how much of proto Monster hunter was inspired by nausicää and its by looking at it from this angle that I saw that EDW was basically that , a rif on the concept of a "sinfull" superweapon that was an affront to nature that somehow fought back more or less intentionally .
Of course I hate the idea of nature actively trying to punish any kind of "sin" and all , its giving ed a level of sentience to ED (and specially fatalis since most people like to say it was its doing) that I actively hate . Like you said yourself , EDs were likely a part of the fall of those civilisations ,be it the bigger settlements become high priority targets or just the pressure of EDs and a civilisation so big it can't hold itself ending up to a breaking point but a war is far fetched .
but for real I really plan on making that proto mh is nausicää but with less war going on essay .
Let's hope Ahtal ka doesn't find it
Hey, which Monster Hunter game are you playing two minutes in?
I've seen it float around a few times, and its UI has me convinced that it wasn't one of the handheld titles.
What is and what isn't Canon Is up for interpretation. Capcom leaves it up for interpretation.
I am honestly one of the weirdos tat like ecology and lore in Monster Hunter, and the world to remain fictitious but grounded.
It would be neat if Capcom for once try to expand on the lore of the Monster Hunter World, it would be neat
World is 'grounded' to you? Let's talk about the everstream shall we?
@@MH3Raiser it's a collection of lava tubes that bio energy funnels into
@@angellara7040 'Bio energy'. Are we talking Bio-Electricity, potential energy from nutrients in the soil, some kind of magma?
You're talking to the wrong hunter: I was playing back in Gen 1. THAT was grounded. Being perfectly honest, the series was perfectly grounded all the way up to Gen 4, and then it went fucking bonkers.
World definitely claims to be more down to earth than Gen 4, but the Everstream, Xenojiiva and literally everything in Iceborne bucks that trend entirely.
Also... 'for once'? You realise that World is the second most recent MH main title release, right? In a series with 5 previous titles, not including any expansions. How about we get a lore expansion on any of those?
@@MH3Raiser "for once" try reading user names
Another good and thoughtful video that will be weirdly shit on by the community 👍
Here's something to think about: What if we were the "Ancient Civilization" in every past MH game? Essentially repeating history, over and over again.
That sucks
Say what you want. But it's in the art book and that's canon
Is that Kirin armor in rise?
ig it could represent man's desire for total control and triumph over nature
i wasn't aware that this was an alternative or niche view. however i could still immagine the equal dragon weapon to be a bossfight or at least part of the setpiece. owning and taking controll over the failiures of human ambition would fit great. basically taking the human desire to controll towards controlling itself. i think capcom proved they can go somewhat deeper with shara ishvalda.
Honestly it would be epic if they had this quest but you have all the hunters from each game like
Mh1 hunter
Mh2 hunter
Mh3u hunter
Mh4u hunter
Iceborne hunter
Sunbreak hunter
All team up to take this abomination down
so your're saying the equal dragon weapon is like the dinosaurs in Jurassic park
I think things have already been set up to where the Equal Dragon Weapon can fit into a story. What do I mean? Nature basically has its own version of the Equal Dragon Weapon, Safi'jiva. Think about it. As a Cocooned Xeno it was drawing Elder Dragons to the New World so when they die it can feed on their bioenergy and further its development. Xeno is literally the embodiment of dead Elder Dragons, hence why it is the Emperor of Elder Dragons. Maybe there can be a third state of Safi considering it was hinted at and much of the community wanted and expected it. It would also show such on extreme dichotomy between humanity and nature with nature presenting Safi'jiva (or a possible evolution) with it's awe inspiring design and power while humanity's attempt to match it is a grotesque monstrosity.
I think it would actually be pretty sick if one of the stories we find out some messed up stuff the guild is hiding, and one is the EDW remains. Then it gets worse and they find out they have safi's body and are turning it into a new EDW.
They could use it to mass slaughter dragons, but the new EDW turns against them and is now an unstoppable threat similar to fatalis.
@@DireNemesis That would indeed be pretty sick.
Elder Dragons are Nature itself but even Nergigante it's nature itself because in World/Iceborne It said that Nergi it's the nature reaponse to keep the balance, so it's not Nergi a Natural Equal Dragon? And i Always wonder how can Nergi fight against someone like Fatalis or Alatreon? And i don't mean like some video do with Simply put the Monster model and IA in the same arena
"I don't care about ecology or biology or lore at all because to me Monster Hunter is just about hunting the "monsters" and being a hunter nothing else matters". ...that paraphrased statement is actually sticking with me pretty hard right now.
g
Do you feel addressed or are you shocked that someone says something like that?
@@9Sleepyhead5 Lets just say that it made me think and reminded me about times I would play the games with friends. I was the odd duck out for enjoying other aspects about the games other then the combat/gameplay. I became hooked and would primaroly play the games to explore and experiance the world and its creatures. I rarely ever focused on the grind, builds, or maxamizing anything. I'd get items that were good enough and make it work just so I could experiance the next creatures in the games. I'd also spend hours on the Monster Hunter Wiki resurching the world and creatures when I wasn't in game.
@@nikkisalerii89 it would be a great loss for the community of hunters if people like you lose interest in the world of Monster Hunter.
@@nikkisalerii89 Im the same, i realised a while ago how much more i enjoy games when i actually look into every small little detail about the world and lore.
@@DireNemesis Hey, that's awesome! I'm really glad that we could share that taste in common ^-^.
6:00 you forgot one thing "turn the thing we "god" turn it in to fancy armor
Just wait till wave 4 sunbrake
There is one part in the beginning that is false the ancient dragon war was a real thing from what I heard from one of ragegamings videos that the war happened proven in world ,fatalise and shrade either way I like the concept of the weapon and I would not think it would be cringe to fight it
What if the Real EDW is the fellow hunters we met along the way, particularly [Insert Japanese Characters here].
To me, the Equal Dragon Weapon represents the absolute limit of humanity that we ourselves are starting to reach. No matter how big the dragonator, or how heavy the bowgun, there's always a person pulling the trigger. Every hunt is the hunter putting themselves at risk, facing the monster as an equal and overcoming it. A test of the human will against the sheer power of nature.
The Equal Dragon Weapon is automization. It's not a sword or a gun one can hold, it's not a creature that has to be trained and with whom you need to develop a relationship. It's a fully automated and probably sentient drone that exists only to receive an order. In the old canon, nature swiftly and brutally decimated humanity when this limit was reached, even after centuries of exploitation. The dragons, lead by the ultimate force of chaos in the form of Fatalis, annihilated the people who created the EDW so thoroughly that survivors had to result to stones on sticks to survive for decades, maybe even centuries after that.
I don't think the Equal Dragon Weapon should be brought back as it is now, but it would be really interesting to see a game where humanity reaches that point again, creates a *new* form of that thing, but realizes what it's doing just in time and steps back.
One issue with this, humanity (or the Hunters Guild) is well aware on why the Ancient Civilizations went extinct.
There would be no reason as to why humanity would sanction another construction of something like the Equal Dragon weapon
LOL YOUR CHAT MACROS!!! XDDDDDDDDDD
actually gigachad
EDW for MH6
MHbros...it's over
Soulschad won
I kneel
D O S M A N
I see the world of Monster Hunter as a prefect world for humans... yes the Elder Dragons are scary, but they can be killed, it's like being able to stop a hurricane, an earthquake or global warming. In the world of MH humans maintain natural by doing what humans are good at making weapons and hunting and because not only are they're Elder Dragons, but other monsters that can become a problem for humans and nature around them, so humans have this never ending threat to deal with... making most human to human interaction peaceful and I believe that is what the Hunter Guild does they insure that hunters don't wipe out these monsters to insure a peaceful human society that's also balanced in nature, but through the use of violence because they know how all ancient civilizations ended through war and then famine because humans seem to have a need for conflict and hunting these large dangerous monsters for food, building materials, and of course armor and weapons to hunt more with becomes a never ending cycle that people are happy with because they seek glory in battle above all else.
Actually fatalis is a nuclear bomb because fatalis wiped out ancient civilization because weapons that can bring any elder dragon down and fatalis pin attack tells it all.
Monster Hunter player hunter 2055 be like: "Yes, I am Equal Dragon Weapon main! Yeah, I know it's not that good in this meta, it's my personal choice... "
NAUJIKAA ??????????????
Oh boy the fandom is going to be out for your head on this vid lol (seriously they are really a bunch of salty b*tches about any unique takes that don’t cling onto established canon like their lives depend on it).
I honestly wouldn’t mind the EDW being reconsidered for the series, like you said it symbolically could represent humanity’s attempts to become god. I personally always had the idea of perhaps a new species of Elder Dragon that was attempted to be tamed long ago but it going horrifically wrong and resulting in a dragon that has no fear of humans on top of being smart enough to know the weaknesses of hunters and other dragons. I think Frontier’s Duremudira was actually implied to be this (but not explicitly stated or else the fandom would enter civil war) due to it being only found in the sky corridor and exhibiting very unique abilities not shown by any other dragon.
It's not canon "yet".
to say ecology, lore, ect isn't important is an ignorant statement, especially when the developers go into such a massive amount of research to build the games around the monsters, their lives, the cultures of this world, and everything beyond just the boss fight. The world, the lore, the ecology of the monsters, all of this ties into the boss fight that makes everything satisfying.
Watch the equal dragon weapon is gonna be the final boss of sunbreak and malzeno will drop down from a hole in the ceiling to be wyvern ridden which starts proof of a hero! After you win the handler comes to elgado and praises the team effort it took to win roll credits
I would unironically love that, simply because of how surreal it would be to experience
@@elk3407 💀💀💀