BLADE RUNNER and FIREFOX miniature effects
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2020
- Mark Stetson, Les Ekker, Pat McClung and Ron Gress talk about the miniature effects work in Blade Runner and Firefox. Extended segment from the Sense of Scale documentary. Photos: Mark Stetson, Virgil Mirano, Douglas Trumbull, EEG.
- Krátké a kreslené filmy
![A Good Start - Designing The Future - Blade Runner [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cj9hzidnWVI/mqdefault.jpg)
![A Good Start - Designing The Future - Blade Runner [HD]](/img/tr.png)
I still believe the Blade Runner city flythrough shots are the most timeless practical effects ever put to film.
Masterful!
Some of the city shots are phenomenal. It looks like they are real.
Still looks better than 99% of the CGI we see today. Amazing work.
Can't truly replicate reality, and our minds appreciate it
The best CGI is happening when you don't know its there. Take Fincher's movies for instance. czcams.com/video/QChWIFi8fOY/video.html&feature=emb_title
Looks better than 100% of all CGI
@@bobrew461 Very elitist comment!
You've probably watched dozens of movies/TV shows where the backgrounds are CGI and you'd never notice. More often than not though like with Blade Runner 2049, the computer work ends up covering the models too much!
I've read a lot about Harrison Ford being unhappy on the Blade Runner set, but he seems pretty relaxed here 2:26
were going to need a bigger boat
Blade runner is my favorite movie of all time. Its incredible to see these models up close and in detail. Through the dark, rainy, steamy, polluted, neon soaked streets of LA 2019 they're somewhat hard to see properly (which is not a bad thing, its very atmospheric). Amazing work by everyone involved
Yeah, I got my first model making job on Blade Runner... OMG
image the stories you can tell your children...
@@tomarnold7284 You know, as time goes by, the significance of these things does fade... I used to work on movie-related stuff for a (subjectively) cool company in a great team in a weird but fascinating work place - but my nieces and nephews are only mildly interested in my stories "hey, did I tell you the story when I found one of my employee lifeless in a graveyard at night?" (he built a horror-movie style stage-set all by himself and had passed out from exhaustion)... they just roll their eyes...
@@f.d.6667
As a child growing up in the 1970s and into the 1980s I understood who the following were Alfred Hitchcock, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, John Ford, Elvis and so on.
Today's generation have no clue even about the 1990s they are so zoned out even within in their own culture they do not understand previous generations.
You rarely see a 1980s or even a 1990s film on TV today but when growing up I seen 1930s,40s, 50s, 60s and 1970s entertainment.
My children today know about a lot of that because I presented it to them otherwise the main culture today would not present it to them.
If someone today told me that they worked on Vertigo or Ben Hur I would be fascinated by it. One of my grandfathers friends who was a camera engineer used to tell me all sorts of things that I found fascinating.
@@bighands69 it is a shame how practical effects are less popular and there are still people who do things like that.
@@RapidActionAnimations
I think there has been a creative decline in our culture.
Real craftsmen, real artistic approach. Brilliant. This is why BR looks & feels so magnificent.
The main problem with CGI is that it looks like CGI.
-Stan Winston
Industrial Light & Magic
CGI has its place but it cannot compete with physical effects that your perception will take as real.
Well, Stand Winston Studio seemed to have fixed that issue with Iron Man. You can't tell what's digital or practical in the first two movies! It all depends on the time and talent.
Like rugs and boob jobs, it is _bad_ CGI that _looks like_ CGI. Good CGI you don't notice.
Thing is, I still enjoy bad model work. I had little space ships on fishing lines zipping through my room. Love that stuff. Bad CGI on the other hand just looks plain terrible.
Bad model work they used to cover up with shitloads of pyro. Bad CGI is covered up with frenetic editing, jump cuts, faux handheld quivers, what have you...
@@Clay3613
Yes you can tell especially when the helmet or mask is up and the face is showing. It is obvious for both Spiderman and Ironman.
@@DrWhom
Good CGI makes it appear realistic if you are willing to dispend belief but look closely and you can tell.
I think the effects on blade runner look more real than CGI. You get a real sense of presence with the physical effects that you do not get from CGI.
The effect that miniatures create is different and makes us feel its not cgi
The acid etching looks like it influenced the small brass details available for commercially produced model kits. These clips are fantastic! Thank you.
2:51 Imagine your first modelmaking job is on a movie which is widely considered to have the best practical effects of any 80s film.
our young new Previs team on LOTR got to work under Mark , just the nicest most patient and creative Man, and i got him to sign my Blade Runner poster of coarse! ..one tried not to geek out on a daily basis..one failed .. I bought a copy of this DVD when it came out..having worked through the last stages of this magical era into the CG take over..its a rare and honest historical work, thanks!
I think it is best when CGI and physical effects are used. Selecting what is best artistically can produce a spectacular outcome or even mixing the two together.
This is so fascinating to me. Models born out of creation and pure imagination.
Some tremendous BTS photos of Bladerunner miniatures here that I, as a long-term fan, don't believe I've ever seen elsewhere.
yeah i gotta check the doc
@@tsunchoo He's uploading the whole thing here, plus outtakes, on a weekly basis.
At the risk of sounding like a teenage CZcamsr, subscribe and hit that bell for regular updates!
@@decibelfilm I already did :D
*Blade Runner -- two words. Bladerunner just looks wrong, decibel 😉
@@chiefscheider Oops, my Alan E Nourse is showing!
These guys were my idols back in the day. The way CGI is overused in film these days is truly sad. CGI just doesn't have the same feel as physical models. Happy to see that some filmmakers realize this and have gone back to using physical models.
CGI has its place but the corporations that today control entertainment have no real creativity.
Did you know that after Star Trek : First Contact all the ships were CGI
Its all make believe, you dork
Bob was a class A guy. RA&A was the hub back in the day. such an amazing crew over there
The patience and painstaking attention to minute detail is incomprehensible. But the result is beautiful and indistinguishable from reality when filmed correctly. Thank you Blade Runner people.
It's nice to hear these creative people talking a bit of shop, the work experience as opposed to the conceptual side. Gives a bit of perspective on their range of skills and professionalism.
CGI has improved massively over the years, but you’ll never, ever beat traditional special effects with models and miniatures. Bring it back I say. 100.
At some point CGI will surpass physical effects but we are not at that point yet. Blade Runner which is pushing 40 looks better than anything out there today.
It all depends on the skill and budget involved. A great physical effect or model can look awful if not filmed or processed correctly.
@@bighands69
You must not watch a lot of movies
This is really great. In 1986 I was part of a student awards group being given a tour of BOSS Films - the former EEG - by Richard Edlund. I was going crazy because no one was asking questions about this historic place.
From 1/15/1981 to 9/22/00, EEG's Boss Film Studios unit has created state of the art visual effects projects for both television and movies. From the
second and final season of the Emmy Award winning "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" to their Oscar nominated visual effects credits: Ghostbusters,
2010, Poltergeist 2, Predator, Die Hard, Alien 3 and True Lies.
5:48 The Viper and the Cylon Raider models looking great!
Absolutely amazing work done by everyone involved! Timeless.
I loved Fire Fox. I made that plane out of boxes and a sharp knife. Watched it often when I was little.
I build models and that stuff is my dream job. Digi definitely took the steam out of that industry.
AAA-mazing. Love that piece of filmhistory.
My eternal gratitude.
Here in my garage, i got my blade runner set here.
I enjoy this behind the scenes stuff just as much as the actual movie 😊
Me too! That's why I put this Sense of Scale documentary together, so I could hear the stories and see the great photos. Thanks for watching
@@piercefilm thank you for the documentary
I worked with Mark Stetson on my first job in Hollywood - building miniatures on Poltergeist II in 1984.
Frank, do you have any photos of the Poltergeist house model from the second film? I have a segment with Pat Mcclung coming up where he talks about Boss Film´s work.
Imagine having a dad like you!!
those miniatures are stunning. Would be so much fun to shoot those. great video
I want to see the beautiful Tyrell building full size sometime in the future, if someone would build it, then ... I WOULD COME.
Amazing to see this stuff and just how much went into it all.
Shorts and tank top, well that’s me sold.
Best of the Best!🌃🎥🎬🏙🔥🧯🧰🪛
I'm trying to film my model railway and its really difficult to get something exciting, so I took straight from the Bladerunner playbook and got a smoke machine loads of small lights and shot it in the dark! viola! job done.
It's fascinating to see what inspiration Lucas's contemporaries took from the industry advancements that Star Wars and ILM represented. Scott gave us Alien and Bladerunner, Spielberg gave us whole decades of effects-driven event movies, and Coppola gave us... One From the Heart.
Tell that to anyone who talks as if VFX is an infantilising crutch, rather than a freeing tool.
Seems like a lot of really good guys.
That shot of the two old Buicks ransacked on top of Old L.A. is just before the camera goes to the Hades Landscape. There is a short shot of it in the Dangerous Days documentary. ❤️
Also a photo here of the rooftop miniature set at about 9:33.
Wow, that is some hard work, such painstaking effort, just looking and listening! I couldn't imagine making one little miniature of a...I dunno, chair! I love the miniature neon, too! Wow...amazing!
This is 1000x better than CGI
Blah blah. half the shit you see is CGI and you don't even know it.
@@darrell9294 Blah blah. half the shit you used to see was practical effects and you didn't even know it.
Great job....
The black and white photos of Manhattan landscape and miniatures in black with white Scotchbrite stripes must be from Escape From New York (1981), shot for Plissken's glider monitor displays. James Cameron worked on the matte paintings, so I couldn't spot him in these photographs though.
Yes, the old EFNY city models were used to help set up shots in pre production on Blade Runner. And some were even used in the background of shots.
@@piercefilm Ah cool, of course. I did not know that. I've read Paul Sammon's Future Noir, also the revised edition, but couldn't recall a mention about the EFNY models. Granted, one can't remember everything these days. So many interesting tidbits in this clip, thanks for posting it.
I inspire to do this! I've never done Dioramas or Models. I've started recently and I've been pretty impressed with it. That just goes to show, anyone can do it. Just be persistent and determined to see them through. Great Video, Blade Runner is one of my favorite movie of all times. It's cool to see how the sausage is made..
There was no sausage in Blade Runner.
@@aliensoup2420 are you sure about that? The whole movie is based on how the sausages are made..
Amazing stuff!
Love this one so much!
It's also my favorite of all the Sense of Scale segments!
I’ve said it before, but thank you so much for posting all of these…these are the people I idolized back then and still love today. The unsung heroes of a generation of productions.
@@piercefilm Really! You have so much to be proud of in Sense of Scale, I wouldn't have guessed that this particular segment would especially stand out for you. But since you've confessed to it, I must as well; it's my favorite too!
@@GothCad I tried really hard to interview as many model makers who worked on Blade Runner as possible. The Close Encounters, 1941, Outland and Moon segments are also favourites of mine.
I hope models never go out of fashion I love them far better than CGI it's actually real ! 👍
Love these videos!
Thanks for watching. More coming up!
Great videos!
Thanks! More coming up.
CGI cannot hold a candle to detailed model work.
completely agree.
@@bobrew461 CGI is used as a crutch these days. Films used to know how to pick and choose when to use a mixture of models and CGI, but nowadays they just saturate films with CGI to the point it just washes over you and you don't remember any of the film
@@patrickpatrick8377
Absolutely Bruv couldn't agree more even lotr trilogy still used loads of model work complimented with cgi where needed
@@bobrew461 CGI allows to do much more than models or other analog things. Yet CGI lacks this huge imagination stimulation effect. In addition to that models give you the feel of "handling" the stuff.
I have to work with a lot of stuff which mainly exists in digital form only. Still, most important stuff is always 3D printed, made of cardboard or paper. Real analog things do reveal flaws that are usually hidden by CGI. In addition to that analog things provide hints to how improve, where and what to add.
So, even if the final product is fully digital, it looks much more believable and realistic if it is based on some analog model work.
@@patrickpatrick8377
You have watched CGI in movies and you never knew it as there
You should also watch the stop motion tests for Jurassic Park and then tell me it looks better than the CGI
FANTASTIC !!!
Another great video...nice to see some more "unknown" BTS relationships between films uncovered! I was wondering...any chance that there could be some coverage of Magicam's "lost" miniature work? Like Pal's War of the Worlds pilot, the scenes cut from The UFO Incident, The Night Watch Murders, and something for Arthur P. Jacobs called Journey of the Oceanauts? I'd definitely love to know more about that period in Magicam's development and the miniature work involved...
I don't have many interviews about Magicam. Only for my Star Trek TMP segment, which will be coming later this year.
"I've always been a skilled builder..." It's actually refreshing to hear experts speaking about their craft without feeling the need for false modesty.
And I like the fact that Firefox, which is a pretty mediocre film and nowhere near as well-remembered as Blade Runner, can still be interesting for its model work. I'd like to have seen a bit more BTS of Firefox.
I already posted a Firefox segment on Apogee´s work.
I was lucky to see them film the Firefox (48” model) landing on the ice field at the Apogee shop. Very cool!
Where did all these miniatures end up? Where is the museum? Where is the collection that can be viewed online?
Some of the model makers were able to keep the cars. And many small parts end up in auctions. Most of the buildings were reused in other films like Ghostbusters then trashed.
@@piercefilm I happen to know that a number of pieces of the main Tyrell-pyramid building still exist (though sadly, not the free-flying buttresses, some of which were reused as 'downtown office buildings' in other scenes), and are in the care of one of the show's model builders who rescued them from a dumpster at the end of production. Same goes for a number of foreground sections of the 'Hades Landscape'. All are battered, but still recognizable for what they are. Being kept safe for that 'someday' museum exhibition.
Some of those miniatures in the photos might have been from Escape From New York. I think.
Since Mark Stetson also worked on EFNY, some of the NY models were used as background models for Blade Runner. And they used them to set up possible shots as seen in these b/w photos. More like art direction models to help design shots.
yes they look like the ones they covered in reflective tape to simulate the 3d vector style graphics of the glider etc that Snake uses to get into New York. it was cheaper then to make the models and pretend its cgi than do the cgi.
@@Samlowry27B-6
The irony is that physical effects of CGI actually look better than real CGI.
@@bighands69 yes if anything their 'practical cgi' has aged better than contemporary cgi
Amazing
Awesomeness 👍😎
Seeing all these BTS photos makes me pull down another Early issue of Cinefex from the bookshelf. 😢
I see the Buck Rogers ranger 3 model at the back with the BSG viper and cylon raider :-)
If I remember correctly, those are castings from the original molds.
movie magic in the making
Return of the Jedi and Blade Runner are for me the high water mark of miniature effects, I gotta see this doc
I am uploading the entire doc here on CZcams. New segment every week!
I've honestly never seen an effects sequence since that's as thrilling, as immersive, and as beautiful as the Death Star run in ROTJ.
The high benchmark prior to that being the asteroid field chase from Empire.
@@decibelfilm 100% - Quite literally edge-f-your-seat stuff.
So much beautiful work in the doc - models make things magical because you can't immediately tell how it's done, whereas CGI is nearly always used in this way that draws attention to itself and it's artifice.
Grand Budapest was magic because you were always wondering, wait does that place exist?
@@tsunchoo
See I think it depends on how the CGI is used and the perspective that the viewer has. LOTR used both CGI and models for maximum effect.
@@tsunchoo
It does not look dated the CGI is used artistically along side models. There are even scenes that use CGI and most people do not even know that they are CGI in the film. It does not look dated and the effects keep within its fantasy setting.
LOVED Firefox .. it’s really too bad they never made Firefox Down. The most awesome plane ever
Agreed. On both counts.
How cool to be a part of not movie magic, but film history. Not block buster movies at the time. But they went on to become even more than cult classics.
They can't even come up with something as original as these movies. Never mind create them to look so good they provoke an emotion.
AWESOME ARTISTS
There's no school like the old school. 🚔
5:12 its a frakking battlestar galactica Viper!!!
Almost forgot about "Firefox" (with Clint Eastwood). Good, but a bit conventional Sci-Fi actioner from the same year (1982) Blade Runner came out.
Parece um trabalho grande e difícil. Mas muito divertido de fazer
Creative as f***.🙌🏻
80´, 90´ , is so muche work , amazing
5:45 Pablo Escobar ?
Now you know how they could keep those deadlines.
I've noticed good miniature effects date a hell of a lot less than CGI but sadly a dying art but the smart directors know a good miniature tweaked with CGI looks better than CGI and the CGI guys love it because it gives them references for lighting and placement.
Using both can be a fantastic creative outcome. I also doubt the budget of the films when marketing.
I'd pay big money for some miniatures from blade runner.
For some reason there’s a few shots of the “wireframe effect” models of the Manhattan skyline for Escape From New York. Not sure what they’re doing here and I don’t know if the same shop handled the miniature work for both films, but it’s clearly not Blade Runner or any of the other mentioned movies.
Mark Stetson worked on the wireframe models for EFNY. Right after that he worked on Blade Runner and they used the leftover models to help set up ideas for shots. And some of the old EFNY building models were used in the background of shots! The photos you see here are Mark setting up the model shop for Blade Runner at EEG.
You can tell all these guys and girls probably grew up assembling model kits. It's a lost art.
I live in westchester I wonder where Mark lived.
I always loved that the advertising blimp selling a "brand new Off World dream" is in the shape of a giant turd.
How can I watch 'Sense of Scale' ?
Seems I can't.
The DVD´s on Amazon are sold out. But I am uploading the entire extended doc here on my channel! 12+ hours in total. I have already uploaded around 9 hours here already. Every week a new segment will be posted. The Facebook page also has more info.
@@piercefilm Ah, that's nice
@@bobrew461 I may try to do some more interviews at some point after the pandemic. Mainly about Wes Anderson films.
Genial 🤩👍💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎💎
What Paint was used to paint the scale model puppet of Harrison Ford
Is it me, or are there shots of model work for Escape from New York in here?
Yes, they were used as art direction models to help design the filming models in preproduction. And some were also repainted and used in the backgrounds of shots. Mark Stetson worked on Escape from NY before working on BR.
Yes Snake Plissken can be seen in the back ground rescuing the Prez and offing the Dook
I wish that a lot more people in the industry nowadays took their careers more seriously. You don't hear effects technicians or modelers talk about their work with such high regard as the old school professionals. CGI ages poorly over time and there's literally nothing to talk about. Unless you're James Cameron. Avatar still holds up 13 years later, my god, way better than new stuff coming out. And that film was made with mid 2000's computer technology.
3:35 that paint being held over the model does not help my anxiety lol
I saw that and thought, maybe there's something clever going on there? Like perhaps the cans are glued to that piece of wood? Because if not that is pretty sketchy.
Do they still make miniature like these now? Or is it just digital ame?
They still do, but not as much. Mandalorian and other Star Wars shows are using models again. Wes Anderson still uses miniatures in his films (see my latest video upload for Henry Sugar). Tarantino uses miniatures in his films.
Is this still l done or is it all 3D animation in Hollywood movies today?
Mostly CGI these days. Some directors still use miniatures. Tarantino. Wes Anderson etc
it's freakin' criminal how hollywood replaced those magicians with CGI artist, and what do you know, hollywood magic died when they left.
Several things have happened within Hollywood. The new producers are too politically oriented, creativity has died due to the fact 3 corporations now control American entertainment and the current quality of content is dreadful.
People keep blaming the decline of cinema on streaming but it really is down to the quality of production. People are too scared to take their family out for the day and spend $100 plus only for the entertainment to be trashy.
Hollywood used to attract some of the best people in their domain. Writers, composers, actors, directors, fx artists... But it slowly declined as the great studios disappeared. Now it's a bunch of investors who delocalize whatever they can to cut the costs and don't care about long term or quality.
@@IronFreee
It has nothing to do with cost cutting.
@@bighands69 The big companies made their money and fortunes, now they want to pump out propaganda of woke sht and nonsense, caring little if it bombs as the projection of their ideology matters more than losing money (which they can more than spare).
CGI + Miniature that would be amazing....
LOTR
Still prefer models to CGI. Just looks better IMO.
Something's really off with the "stereo" sound this has. I doubt it was ever really stereo to begin with and some weird effect was used to turn mono into stereo. when you force mono sound in Windows it sounds perfectly normal.
It's not stereo. Maybe CZcams has changed something during conversion. Just enjoy the info like everyone else.
@@piercefilm You don't have to take my word for it. type "mono" in the search bar in Windows, that'll lead to the setting "Turn mono audio on or off". Flip that back and forth while you listen to the interview. The difference is massive.
@@forasago It sounded OK here. I don't do Windows though.
👀👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🎬🎥🇧🇷😷
Ive been building models and collecting model trains for a long time...when I was little I wanted to build models for movies....stupid cgi lol...
If there is a rebirth in Hollywood we may see modelling and physical effects returns.
Comment for algorithm + 👍 'd
#OldManPaxus Rating: ☆☆☆☆
I’ve had the pleasure of seeing blade runner three times in the theater. 35 mm, 70 mm, 4K. The work is astounding and it feels real. Like you could reach out and touch the walls of the buildings or the spinner, etc. The problem with CGI today is there is so much of it and you know it’s fake. It’s thrown out there, everywhere, all over the damn wall and it’s just crap.
So basically, Blade Runner was built in a cave with a box of scrap.
Not quite, but like ILM on Empire Strikes Back, they had to start the model shop pretty much from scratch.
Looks like fun except for the unrealistic deadlines. Why can't people plan better?
The film industry is creative chaos. Not a job for everyone...
@@piercefilm with what they've been putting out lately I wish them luck. It seems like an industry off the rails to me anymore.
oh please, stop whining about CGI. Just enjoy the moment here.
wow, Les as a 30-40 something (don't shoot)
lookin' good!!!
who worked? the shadow knows! muhahahahaha!
special effects in firefox are nothing to brag about
They are not bragging. The model they built wasn't used. The job went to Apogee. Apogee did a good job for the time.
Everything looks worse today. Lines were clearly defined giving weight.
All looks cartoonish now.