The Rise And Fall Of Muppet Cinema
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2024
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CAST & CREW
narrative writers
Jake Torpey
Mike Curran / mikel_curran
music by
Brian Metolius www.brianmetolius.com/
featuring
Dave Wiskus / dwiskus
Emma Logsdon / msmegalodon
Jake Torpey
Nobbles designed and built by
Dominic Hure at CameraSauce Productions / camerasauce
co-editor
Ryan Alva / papajohnmisty_
title sequence by
Madeline Metolius www.madelinemetolius.com/
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Over on the second channel I responded to a ton of the comments from this video! More Muppet talk!
czcams.com/video/3uMnQXSek_k/video.html
It requires you to have an account, and... do I understand this properly, it costs money?
33:28 Elaborate puppet character G'morK.
Is this a test? That wrong T sounded too deliberate. What do I win?
@@2nd3rd1st I imagine he misremembered it and/or got it mixed up with the word root 'mort' meaning death.
that said, now i want to watch Gmork and Gmindy.
I duno, Audrey Two looks pretty frigging "realistic" (39:34). I doubt that they could've done any better a job with HER with cgi.
A couple years back, Frank Oz was a guest on Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me. The hosts asked him to do one of his voices, and he got kind of offended, saying something like, “These voices are characters. They’re real. They’re not party tricks. I won’t just do a voice for this show, because it demeans the character.” The audience applauded.
He's absolutely right to. I'd hate to see those voices come from a human mouth, it would kill a very small part of me. They're all separate comedic actors in a troupe and I absolutely will not accept otherwise.
Based
Frank Oz has had a stick up his rear for decades. He acts as if someone is sticking their hand up him, instead of him sticking his hand up the puppet. That's why Disney disowned him, and wants nothing to do with him. You ask Seth MacFarlane to do Stewie, and he has no problem doing the voice. Tom Kenny will do Spongebob if you politely ask him. Nancy Cartwright will do Bart Simpson without you even asking her. That's why all those actors are still working today, and all their shows are still on the air decades later.
@@hagbardceline7118oh please, grow up. I've seen hot dogs get made in the sausage factory, and I still eat them.
@@I_WANT_MY_SLAW But also... Hey, if that's what it takes for him to do good work, then okay.
The reason why you don't see youtubers from the waist down isn't because they are all actually puppets, but because they're not wearing pants.
They could also e secret centaurs
No, we're just overweight 😂
Now here’s a conspiracy theory I can get behind
I know he is a streaming first and foremost but Jerma985 has all but proven this
Sometimes both
We need to bring the Muppets back; The Muppets can host awards shows, they can appear everywhere like *_Muppet Knives Out_*
Muppet Knives Out is a phenomenal idea. I don’t know if they would truly mesh together and compliment each other- the comedy and intrigue/twisty plots- but I would definitely like to see it
Muppets are owned by Disney now. best they stay gone for Henson's legacy sake.
Would be hilarious if Frank Oz's lawyer character returned to interact with one of his Muppet characters.
Er... in case you haven't noticed, they ARE back? Have been for over a decade now? And it's... not good.
The little girl telling Kermit she loves him always breaks my heart
I’ve seen that clip countless times and it’s one of the cutest things to ever have occurred.
The little kiss 😭
Adorable!
I haven't watched yet, but I saw someone on Twitter suggest that a Muppets version of pride and the prejudice should be made starring Adam driver as the only non-muppet and I've never wanted something so badly in my life
adam driver is an islamophobic murderer, so no
There definitely needs to be a Muppet version of The Matrix, with Sam the Eagle as Agent Smith.
Sam: “Morpheus is a weirdo who is not to be trusted.”
Who would he play, Mr. Darcy?
There are simply not enough female muppets to fill that story
@@TheSchaef47I think he'd be a good Mr Collins, but that would be a weird character to have as the only human
That online post about how Michael Caine and Tim Curry were the best Muppet guest actors because one respected them as an actor and the other as a fellow muppet? Yeah, it's still a spot-on assessment.
Which is honestly the point of puppetry. Using the physical presence of the actor and the puppet to create a genuine reaction.
The whole “cookie monster” thing from Sesame Street is the real deal. Time and again, you hear stories about people reacting to Kermit as if Kermit is a real person with indescribable happiness.
Respectively?
VERY MANLY MUPPET
I feel like that person should maybe have watched a Muppet production made while Henson was still alive. Almost every guest star in the first two movies was also there because he or she was a Muppet...
@@josephfisher426 Are you calling Orson Welles a Muppet then?
Not getting a second season of the dark crystal is a travesty, the 1st season was incredible
💯
A TRAVESTY!!!
It got cancelled right after it won its first Emmy! It breaks my heart.
Yea, that broke my heart. I'll be honest, I thought the storytelling was very lacking... But I was into it just because of the unique feeling of actually being in a fantastical world. I'm a 3D artist myself so i know that CG takes a ton of art, blood sweat and tears.. But we really need more physical puppet stuff.
@SgtNicholasAngle, The ratings were awful though. People can still complain about the cancellation three and a half years later, but that doesn't change the fact that if something doesn't get enough viewership, then there's no reason to keep it around. Simple.
People talking about 2023 Doctor Who puppets are forgetting one of the most iconic puppet characters ever created: the Daleks.
Yes, they are puppets, there is a guy inside on a tricycle and he moves the arms and face plunger as well as light the head lights when they talk. Their movements look organic because there IS a creature inside handling the chasis, like it is in universe.
And of course the Kaled mutants themselves are puppets whenever they appear. You could probably even get away with turning Davros into a puppet if you really wanted to.
There's a reason Henson is basically universally considered the greatest puppeteer of all time, exceeding even his best friend and frequent collaborator Frank Oz. He brought robotics into puppetry when robots was still in its infancy. Big Bird relies on streaming video to function... In the 1970s! They broadcast the recording live and had a TV in the costume pick it up so Carrol Spinney could see what was happening despite no vision inside the costume. And Spinney was so talented he could ROLLER SKATE while watching himself in 3rd person view on a tiny bit heavy old CRT television strapped to his chest... WHILE ACTING with a hand over his head and controlling both arms of the bird with one arm and a pulley.
This is so beautiful
Wait... for real?
Yep!@@piratafrustrado
Oh my god. That's an insane level of talent
AND doing it backwards in heels!
Rick Moranis’ performance in Little Shop of Horrors is not talked about enough. Because Audrey II was filmed at half-speed, every shot where Moranis is in frame with the plant, he’s moving at half speed. You can just about see it if your looking for it, but it looks so natural at normal speed you’d never guess if you didn’t know.
Rick Moranis: is there anything he can’t do?
Play a non-comedy role.
Build safety mechanisms into a piece of shrinking tech?
Breathe in this thing?
Reach the top shelf.
@@LilliathiIn fairness, I've never seen him try. But I was dubious about other comedic actors taking serious roles, and I was wrong.
The Muppet Christmas Carol is the greatest A Christmas Carol adaptation and you will never convince me otherwise.
Brian Henson was not as innovative with his puppet work as his father but you can still tell a lot of love and work went into making that film. The opening pan through London with all the characters moving in and out of windows is a classic example of a shot so natural you don't initially stop to think about what all had to go into achieving a shot like that.
And also, Michael Freaking Caine
Guilermoro Del Toro has been vocal about that as well
@@greglbennett I still disagree and here’s my reasoning. A Christmas Carol is a dark story sure but it’s also about warmth and kindness and Christmas. The film itself takes on serious subject matter and I firmly do not believe it sugarcoats that and I’ve read and loved the Dickens story and can state with certainty that the film treats it with more respect than most serious versions. Even that scene uses much of the text and still ends on a dark moment. So what they make a few quips?
Anyway, this has been my defence of a thirty year old movie. Good day, sir
I personally prefer the Scrooge McDuck version but to each their own!
This.
Part of the reason that Jurassic Park holds up so well is that it uses a combination of practical and computer generated effects. The team clearly had an eye for which to tools to use in which contexts.
Also what the recent Star Wars stuff tends to be. I’m surprised that Patrick didn’t mention the real vanguard there, BB-8, which is an animatronic in some scenes and a CGI creation in others. Its been known for a long time, animatronics/puppets and CGI can work great alongside each other, pick the right tool for the right shot.
I feel like not enough praise has gone to M3GAN - the character was a combination of a child actress, puppeteering, and CG, mixed to varying degrees depending on each shot. Not hugely groundbreaking or anything, but an example of a recent movie that DIDN'T fall into the Thing-2011 trap because they knew exactly what blend of tools to use to make their character look convincing.
i always see this type of comment whenever someone talks about cg , but is this true? do we have actual cg artists backing this statement up? since i know even mo-cap anim stuff still requires tons of polishing and refinement , makes sense to me that merging practical and cgi are the same.
Exactly. A blend. If you go too heavy in one area, it becomes a crutch.... just like the use of the Void in Mando and Book of Boba Fett. It unintentionally introduced a recognizable effect that detracted from the end product.@@Wraithfighter
Practical effects always hit differently, especially when expertly done.
I appreciate that once you have practical effects they're a real thing that can adapt to any reshoots that need to happen instead ramping up crunch time for cg artists to scrap and redo scenes
As a kid in the early '80s watching The Empire Strikes Back, not once did I think of Yoda as a puppet despite having grown up with Sesame Street and the Muppet Show. Absolute movie magic.
Yoda is a fully realized character beyond puppetry.
I'd never put my finger on it before this video, but it is 100% absolutely that line between _"realism"..._ and _believability._
I'm glad they brought the puppet (and Oz) back for the new movie, even if people hated it. I mostly liked it and I sure liked that part at least.
I do remember reading articles, back when Episode 2 came out, that they had carefully researched Oz's performance in order to make the CGI Yoda as puppetlike as possible, right down to his head-wiggle... and all I could think was YOU USED A PUPPET LAST MOVIE, KEEP USING IT. you know what looks puppetlike? _a puppet._ then they CG'd him out in episode one later. Madness.
Watching this only because I hope The Dark Crystal reboot will get mentioned and get its well deserved flowers... a crime Netflix cancelled this
Is it worth watching if one hasn’t seen The Dark Crystal movie?
@@JamesLawnerYes. It's a prequel, yes, but it's a little like the story the movie wanted to be. My husband hadn't seen the movie, and he completely connected with it. It is so good.
@@JamesLawner yes 100% please watch, such a labour of love
to be fair its a bit of a miracle they agreed to make it in the first place
It's fantastic! The most amazing fantasy world I've seen this side of Tolkien. It feels so real. There's one particular fight that left me speechless
Stuff like the fnaf movie (which was done by Jim Henson’s creature shop) gives me hope that this era of puppetry isn’t entirely dead .
I'm not interested in fnaf and won't be seeing the movie, but it is very nice to hear they didn't use cgi to depict and animatronic and went with using an animatronic. When I was announced a co worker and I were joking they'd do that.
really? well I will see it now, that looks way cooler than cgi characters
too bad! if was covered up with cgi
The new D&D movie also has some nice full body puppets
It's a big budget movie on something pop culture that wasn't very good to begin with. OFCOURSE it's gonna suck!
Patrick doing a almost hour long video essay on Muppets cinema is something I didn’t know I needed but I’m so glad that I did
Except 20 mins is pointless skits and filler ...
@@peterkominek2681Yeah, I've watched so much less Patrick since his switch to this format. I miss his parents
@@theaddictofgaming9174 I always fast forward through as that shite. I really like his analysis and when he is reading the teleprompter, but the skies are getting egregious. No value add. People aren't watching for his comedy stylings. At least I'm not.
@@peterkominek2681 I thought I was alone in this 😂 I also don't like his skits very much and skip them every time
Probably my favourite memory from working in hospitality was serving Bret McKenzie and the entire cast of the muppets. It was so much fun and full of love.
What was it like seeing all the Muppets lying "dead" on chairs/tables/sets and stuff in between activity? Or were they very careful to never set them down or get them out of character, even off-screen?
@@SomeCZcamsTravelerHe didn’t work on the show. He just met them at work
Patrick, I'm disappointed you didn't mention Dinosaurs. It's one of the greatest sitcoms ever made and it rarely had a human on screen.
those werent muppets tho, it was suitmation, only the heads were animatronic
Also Patrick barely ever talks about TV. I asked him once in a Livestream about it and he said he just doesn't have time to watch enough episodes to talk about any whole series as much as it would deserve
@@LynnHermionetwo words. BIG BIRD.
@@LynnHermioneand he showed clips of Bear in the big blue house which is the same thing. Also Dinosaurs Did have puppet characters along side suit puppets. (TMNT are suit puppets & they got a mention, so Dinosaurs should count!)
One great example of puppet use was the Henson Company’s work on Farscape.
That was a show with multiple characters that blended seamlessly into a live action cast with some early CGI thrown in for things like spaceships.
Well worth a look for its exceptional effects.
My absolute favorite space opera
I was shocked he didn't bring it up. That show lived and died with Muppets.
I was honestly also quite surprised at that ommision.@@ZReviews
THANK YOU. Pilot is the most epic of puppets and I agree, that show absolutely lived and died by its puppets. AND the show was for adults without being just a "tasteless comedy" using puppets for gross gags.
I started watching that show back when it originally aired, but the puppets were what made me tune out. I grew up with Muppets, between Sesame Street, The Muppet Show, and the various films, but I just could not take the puppet characters seriously at the kind of tone the show was going for. It felt like at any moment there should be a cutaway gag with Rowlf playing the piano or something. I didn't have this problem with the more recent Dark Crystal series because everything was a puppet as opposed to trying (and in my opinion failing) to make them seem realistic alongside human actors.
So glad you mentioned The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance. It was by far the best fantasy epic series since the original Avatar: The Last Airbender. They really did find a great sweet spot of how to add to the puppetry with CGI without it getting too distracting, as well as just how to build on the original story without lessening it.
One of the best thing about Doctor Who's soft reboot has been those juicy juicy muppets.
The Meep is an absolutely masterful creation, a perfect mixture of puppetry and CGI
away from the big screen, Doctor Who is doing a lot of great practical effects lately, with characters in the recent specials like The Meep and the Goblin King being a mix of live action puppetry enhanced with CGI features
True, but some of its classic era practical effects were always verging on the bizarre. Bubble wrap monster everyone?
Yeah, the Meep was beautiful, even if that episode was clearly the worst of the 60th specials. Which is a terrible thing for poor Rachel Talalay.
The really interesting thing is that in 2005 they tried to do a lot of the same techniques but didn't have the resources or budget yet. The Slitheen were supposed to be more on par with The Meep as fullbody suit puppets that would have their faces cgi animated but those episodes went so over budget and over schedule that in the end all they could do was add in some blinking effects to the eyes. They also thought that Cassandra would be an easier effect not knowing that, at the time, realistic lip syncing was the most difficult aspect of CGI and that's almost all of what Cassandra consisted of.
@benwasserman8223 you got to remember they were making that classic who was made from 1963-1989 on a small BBC budget. The affects did evolve since 26 years is a long time in terms of tv shows.
The effects were always affected by the small budgets and lack of time. And don't forget the technology available.
@@benwasserman8223have you actually watched the whole show? that monster was a result of strikes and budget issues and it is rembered because it's rare. Go watch The Web Planet
Finally my insomnia pays off
Same here, was just about to sleep after insomnia laundry and Like A Dragon playing. But thar be Muppets!
Same here
Finally me being awake at 3pm pays off!
To a point
This is the greatest CZcams comment section complement for a creator I've ever read.
This year is the 10th anniversary of Muppets Most Wanted(one of my top 3, S tier, god tier Muppet films), and the 45th anniversary of The Muppet Movie.
*45th anniversary
I thought Muppets Most Wanted was one of the worst movies I had ever seen when I watched it, and I am genuinely curious as to why you like it so much. I'm not trying to say you have bad taste or anything, just the fact that you like it so much makes me wonder if there was something important about it that I didn't understand.
@@matthewthayer9316I suggest a rewatch. I remember not liking it in comparison to others when it came out, but watching again years later I really enjoyed it. More than the 2011 movie
@@jasonc.776 I’ve corrected it
Muppets Treasure Island is one of the greatest films of all time. Top 1, don't @ me. Hans Zimmer, Tim Curry, and Jim Henson is a maelstrom of a trio that no one deserves or gives the proper credit to. I'll die on this hill.
"It Just Feels So Weird."
"You Mean That Mr. Arrow's Dead?"
"Yeah, That, And My Pants Are Filled With Starfish."
"You And Your Hobbies."
Jim Henson had been dead for about 5 years before that film came out.
But dead Tom’s always been dead. That’s why he’s called “Dead Tom”
This video made me realize how challenging the 2nd season of the Netflix One Piece live action series could get if Chopper (as well as Caroo and Lashes) becomes a Muppet, but if done so well, it could be immensely satisfying.
I would love Chopper to be a Muppet!
Also, did you know that there's an AI program that was used to detect cancer cells? Like, this is what AI can do and Hollywood wants it to replace artists.
Those Snail Transponder phones are already practical effects! They must keep the trend going!
Since live action One Piece came out, Geoff Thew has been pounding the table saying Chopper should be a Muppet.
I hadn't even considered this and its 1000% the right move
I’m seriously hoping he’ll be portrayed as a muppet!! I still need to finish watching the first season but the episodes I HAVE watched have been incredible, and I hope the next season will be too!!
I'm shocked that you never mentioned Peter Jackson's _Meet the Feebles_ (1989)!
Surely a movie for the more mature adolescent.
"You know my fellow b boys call me Quixote and I'll tell you why, it's because I be devastating on windmills." is such an incredible joke, holy shit.
Except Don Quixote lost to the windmills rather badly.
@@itsaUSBlineexactly
One of the significant reasons for the shift to CGI that Patrick didn't mention is that VFX artists weren't (and sill aren't) unionized, so studios didn't have to pay them as much
I love this episode of Blank Check Podcast
I watched Labyrinth so many times I could virtually recite it word for word. It's crazy how it wasn't a huge hit. It was in our house.
Jurassic Park is used here (and generally by the industry) as an icon of the changeover to CGI. But when you really break it down, it's the practical effects that make the film - some of the most impressive practical effects in history. And the CGI that *is* there (less than most people realise) is as impressive as it is because of in-camera techniques.
For one thing, far from being the end of puppetry in mainstream movies, the CGI dinosaurs were actually controlled by physical puppet armatures, moved by Star Wars / RoboCop's stop-motion guy Phil Tippett. The movements of the puppet were translated to the CG model, and that's why they move in such a believable way, with just the right amount and speed of articulation.
But half of the dinosaur effects in Jurassic Park have no CGI whatsoever. They were full-sized robotic puppets (with some man-in-suit articulation for the raptors). When you see behind-the-scenes footage, the Tyrannosaurus looks every bit as believable on the soundstage as it does in the film, unless you can see the out-of-frame exposed robotics and supports. When it looks into the car and its iris contracts, *that is a 100% practical shot*.
That helped the CGI artists create more plausible rendering, because in many cases they could reference the lighting, colouration and texturing of the physical dinosaur props on set. And the dinosaur designs were produced as miniature physical maquettes, which were then scanned in to create the CG models.
But it was always going to look good, because Spielberg didn't take a "we'll do it in post" approach to CGI. During shooting, they'd rig up the disturbances of the dinosaur moving through the environment: creating splashes in puddles during the Tyrannosaurus' breakout, shaking the tree branch that the Gallimimus stampeded over, wobbling the spoon that the raptor would lick in the kitchen, etc. Those are in-camera effects captured during the main shoot, which the CGI dinosaur would later be dropped into, so that it appears to be interacting with an actual, physical object on the set.
And that's really the secret to why Jurassic Park's dinosaurs are so plausible: they are a tangible physical presence. By mix-and-matching physical effects and CGI, and adding in lots of shots in which the dinosaurs appear to be interacting with something that's definitely physically on-set, you get the best of both worlds. The practical shots allow viewers to buy into the dinosaurs being physically there, so that they still seem real when the CG elements are added.
Terminator 2 is another example of a movie that uses a lot more physical effects than you'd realise, yet also is held up as the standard bearer of CGI changing the industry. Modern filmmakers could learn a lot by really looking into how these films were made, and how it was the blending of physical and digital artistry that made them look so good.
We just saw the original 'Jurassic Park' in the theatre a couple weeks ago and I 100% agree with this. The effects in the original look and feel more plausible than most of what's in the modern sequels - even when you know it's a "puppet" or animatronic, it feels more present and real when the actors are reaching out to touch it. Damn if that movie doesn't hold up, even today.
Where the Wild Things Are was an amazing and heartfelt movie, and a perfect usage of puppetry and CGI. Also, a Q for the Replies show: What are your thoughts on The Muppets 2015 sitcom and The Muppets Mayhem?
While both have downsides to them, I personally liked both Muppets 2015 and Muppets Mayhem. I loved how Muppets 2015 allowed a variety of Muppet characters to get time to shine, and had fun making fun character combinations (Piggy and Uncle Deadly are an awesome duo). Mayhem felt like the classic Muppet content, and the songs were quiet the jam.
The thing is, I think both shows needed more time to come into their own and get better. I feel like lots of shows today get canceled instantly if their 1st season doesn't blow up the viewer numbers. But not every show can hit the ground running. If you look back, most famous shows needed a few seasons to get going. The Muppet Show is a great example of this. The 1st season is great, but you can tell they were figuring things outs, and later seasons only got better. There were hints of something really great in both Muppets 2015 and Mayhem, but they were only given a few episodes to try and show it. Had both shows gotten more time, I think they could have really been awesome. And Where the Wild Things are is great!
I always love when someone mentions this movie because my father worked on the CGI part of it.
I’d like to call out the Five Nights at Freddy’s movie as an example of modern Muppet Cinema that isn’t a nostalgia reboot of a classic Muppet Cinema franchise, nor a tasteless adult comedy. Granted, it is still an adaptation instead of an original concept, but it’s still something.
not saying the puppetry can't be impressive, but I heard the movie itself it pretty bad?
@@MaMastoastto critics maybe but to people who grew playing the games it’s very enjoyable for what it is 😭
@@cjhill4130i grew up enjoying the games since the first one and i hated the movie. It was truly awful. That it was made for fans is a shit excuse, so was Rise of Skywalker and look how that turned out. It made me stop being a fan.
@@Spider-Man_234 thats rough buddy
@@CommanderLexa8541I understood that reference
There's a 2023 French arty horror film called Le Vourdalak which is based on a vampire story that predates the novel Dracula. The combination of 19th century language, shooting on Super 16mm and using a puppets for the vampire give it great atmosphere.
cool, I'm going to check it out
0:25 100% The Great Muppet Caper has some of the best practical effects put to film
It's the *tactility* of puppet, animatronic, miniature, and suitmation work that gives it its charm. It forces a certain economy of filmmaking and design, too. (But then again as an hobbyist suit actor, I'm thoroughly biased.)
It's why Tsuburaya's hybrid productions still have that charm to them...
From everything Ive heard about the production of Dark Crystal, those puppets were endurance tests. The series deserves another season. Not just the technical skill on display, but the visual design and imagination just is like nothing else. I wanted you to bring up the TMNT suits, but I was THRILLED when you touched on Where the Wild Things Are. I loved that movie and it was just screaming in my head when you reached that point.
Pat! As a fellow New Yorker, thank you for all you do for me! I only just started this but I am already crying because my dad and I used to love watching The Muppets -- his catch-phrase was the old guys on the balcony saying "See ya later, alligator!" I love him so much but dementia has taken him from me. I think Imma have a Muppet Marathon with my wife to relive some memories.
Went to a Jim H museum and got to watch a lot of his pilots, old commercials, and see a ton of his original puppets. One of my favorite museum experiences
OMG, I didn't know there was a museum! That's my next holiday sorted 😁😁
@@helenl3193 I think it is a touring exhibit! It was in Baltimore but not sure where it is now or if it is still there?
That touring exhibit was produced by the Museum of the Moving Image in New York. They also have a similar permanent Henson exhibit there. The Center for Puppetry Arts in Atlanta also has a permanent Henson exhibit.
I was already 100 levels of excited for this, as a MASSIVE Jim Henson and Muppet fan. Then you brought up DefunctLands Henson docu-series, one of the best CZcams series from one of my favorite youtuber, and how you didn't want to repeat what that had said. And I knew this was made with PURPOSE
While its a T.V. show and not a Film I'm a little surprised you didn't mention FarScape which the Henson creature shop made for the sci-fi channel in the early 2000s which made some steps forward in puppetry and special effects and is deeply under appreciated show
As an mexican guy, i knew the muppets just for sesame street and muppets baby, but thanks to the @Defunctland series about Jim Henson i learned alot about this beautyfull style of cinema and tv
You should check out Adam Savage's visits to the Jim Henson Creature Shop. Half the time he interviews the muppets instead of the muppeteers LOL
Griffin met Nobbles’ eyeline and matched his energy, put that fool in a Muppet movie immediately
Jim Henson was a genius and having watched Muppets Treasure Island recently, I can honestly say- JIM, JIM JIMMY JIM JIM JIM JIM. And just know that I mean it.
It's TV, not cinema, but it's worth mentioning Farscape. Two of the core characters are animatronics, built by Brian Henson and company. I absolutely love the muppet characters in Farscape - they are so expressive. In the commentary, the actors talk about how they figured out early on that physically interacting with the puppets made them feel real.
I was waiting for Emma to say: "Did you know that Alex Thomson did camera work for the 1997 kilm The Saint?"
Patrick talking about The Dark Crystal, two great things that go great together… also that’s something I really appreciate about modern Star Wars, they are really pushing and appreciate cool puppet characters.
you missed Peter Jackson's entry into muppet cinema, Meet the Feebles
It honestly feels like Disney is just sitting on a goldmine of potential Muppet movies. With all the IPs they own now, they have ammunition for several Muppet movies that would probably kill with good comedy writers. Disney keeps remaking their animated movies into live actions I will never watch, but if they gave me Muppets Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, etc.? I'm there. Imagine a Muppets version of the original Star Wars trilogy. Imagine a Muppets Avengers movie, the Muppets have so much potential from one monopoly that being critically underutilized.
Why no mention of Thunderbirds Are Go (1966), a full length, theatrically released film with puppets? It also had a sequel.
Yup an bear Henson to the post with films entirely made with no human actors. Probably because it's not American or the fact there's no nostalgia for it in the US as there is in the UK, Japan & Australia (where Anderson shows are still quite popular or at least well known. Australia still airs the original tv show and has so for YEARS at an ungodly hour in the morning. 😊)
That Quixote windmills line is pure gold.
the thing that always stuck out to me about the muppets, that a lot of my less beloved modern muppet projects fall short of, is their ability to exist as a studio of muppet artists even within their own narrative. Like, when the muppets are putting on a show, say a rendition of the classic story "A Christmas Carol," it's not just "a movie with muppets", it's a show being put on BY the muppets. They interact with the script, the scenery, and each other in ways that you would expect to see in a blooper real, not the main production. I think their ride at WDW shows this the best, but that element of disfunction is crucial, maybe even central to the charm of the muppets. That obfuscation between the reality they exist in and the cartoon nature they embody brings a certain authenticity to them that I now expect from muppet products before I REALLY sink my teeth into them.
revealing griffin newman like a new avenger,,, man knows his audience
There’s a reason those practical effects 80’s movies and The Muppets are so beloved
Hi Patrick! An interesting story to look at alongside muppetry is Japanese tokusatsu, specifically in the Godzilla series. It started out as a mix of manned puppetry, animatronics and stop-motion. The stop-motion elements were quickly dropped in the series because they were tedious and didn't look as good as the active puppetry. Over time they became a mix of puppetry with CGI special effects, and are now fully CG but with motion capture to evoke the feeling of the iconic rubber suits. The recent American and Japanese Godzilla films are a great example of different approaches. The American films are more over the top and clearly CG, whereas the Japanese films, while CGI, are more within the framework of puppetry.
Back when Stanley Kubrick was making 2001: A Space Odyssey, he recruited the special effects artist Brian Johnson from Century 21 Productions, the creators of various marionette led sci-fi series like Fireball XL-5, Stingray, and Thunderbirds, under the leadership of Gerry Anderson. The puppets themselves in Century 21's productions haven't held up terribly well, but the miniature effects, full of fantastic model vehicles and exploding buildings and realistic landscapes still look fantastic.
Shout out to Farscape. 90's sci-fi TV show with two Henson creatures on the main cast. They really leaned into the physicality of it with the human characters often touching the muppet cast.
It's funny you mentioned that puppets would have no place in the realistic world of LotR since one of its most memorable characters "Treebeard" was an animatronic. When you see Pippin and Merry sitting on the shoulders of Treebeard that is real. They are sitting on a huge animatronic. And his mouth is actually moving. No part of that was CGI.
(Also fun fact: Treebeard is voiced by the same actor who plays Gimli)
That is incorrect: Treebeard's entire face was a CGI replacement on the animatronic. The body moved, but the face did not. czcams.com/video/IbyTI6bXGFg/video.html
I'm quite certain Treebeards face was CGI blended with animatronic for the dialogue. I cannot find any reference online to support your 100% practical claims.
Doctor Who still uses practical effects very often in its episode productions. The best example being everytime a Dalek isn't flying, whether they be full scale props or remote controlled toys, no joke. And most recently, the practice of using a practical puppet with a cgi face was used in the first 60th anniversary special, The Star Beast, where The Meep used said method, and the 2023 Christmas Special, The Church on Ruby Road, used it with the Goblins. Even in the 60th anniversary special, Wild Blue Yonder, there's a robot that's actually one big marionette. Would've been very good examples of modern puppetry still used today.
What I enjoy most from this fascinating video essay is that it is something of a hauntological look at the history of special effects. By recontextualizing the muppets/puppets/animatronics from that technological perspective, it provides an opportunity to see them for how advanced they really are & to see an alternative to the current CGI-dominated sci-fi & fantasy blockbusters we see today.
A new Gremlins movie has been rumored for years and if it happens I hope they can keep it practical with puppets and only use limited CGI.
I remember as a kid seeing all the promotion for "Dark Crystal" but I had NO IDEA that "Labyrinth" even existed until my dad rented the movie for us one weekend when we visited. I had not seen any trailers for it (and this was at a time when I was going to the movies at LEAST once a month because that is what we did most of the times when Dad came and picked us up every other Sunday) and had no clue what it was about. I think that is one of the biggest reasons it failed, it came and went so quietly no one knew about it at the time. Now, ofc, it's a cult classic.
This is my first new Patrick H. Willems video. I've been catching up, and I've loved everything. This was great!
I'm very curious why you chose to omit the SciFi series "Farscape" that aired in the early 2000s. Almost all of the alien effects were done by the Jim Henson company. Its style wasn't born out of nostalgia, but really pushed the boundaries of a TV show's effects.
My jaw dropped when Griffin appeared in the intro. A perfect collaboration!
The lighting on patrick is immaculate!! for a second it reminded me of ryan gosling from the christmas im just ken video
theres a great piece of Muppet cinema from France that not many people know about called Marquis, from the director of Fantastic Planet. Its a surreal French Revolution satire that utilizes actors wearing animal masks , and prominently features a puppet of the main characters talking pp (trying to keep this comment clean for the Patrick Replies video).
I really hope Patrick mentions Farscape, it was made by the Jim Henson Company, it’s like Guardians of the Galaxy meet Star Wars, it’s a great underrated space opera show
I don't actually need, or even particularly want, my science fiction and fantasy characters to be "realistic" and prefer the theatricality of puppetry. Although I adore the Star Trek franchise, one of my favorite science fiction TV series is Farscape. Produced by Brian Henson, it took everything that Jim Henson's company learned on the Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, Yoda, Audrey II, and Dinosaurs and put it together in one of the most epic shows ever put on TV. And it's precisely because it goes for the theatricality of puppetry rather than realism. Even the characters played by actors in makeup are performed in a broadly theatrical way.
Thank you for reminding me to buy the soundtrack from "Little Shop of Horrors".
How this guy doesn’t have ten billion subscribers is beyond me
One possible avenue for a return to puppets is with Five Nights at Freddy’s, the Creature Shop worked on it and it was a massive success. While I could see cheap imitators just using CGI or suits the series is definitely going to continue for the foreseeable future so Muppet Cinema will live on(albeit through FNAF)
I would like to bring to your attention: Thunderbolt Fantasy, a joint Japanese-Chinese produced action-adventure television series featuring elaborate and spectacular martial arts sequences, using mainly hand puppets and practical stages. There's some CG, but it's used almost exclusively for magical martial arts special effects.
I am a big Muppet fan from Taiwan and I got to say this video is awesome, thanks a lot Patrick.
Me 2❤
I was so glad to hear the Where The Wild Things Are mention. Such an important movie to me on so many different levels.
Dude you should check out Jim Henson's The Storyteller!!! It's amazing and Henson's dream project, would love to see a video about that!
Yeah, that is a great series, and people need to talk about it more. Especially since The Witcher doesn't want to acknowledge its fairy tale roots.
I heard about Tale of Sand, which was an unproduced screenplay Henson wrote.
Probably my favourite Henson project, which says a lot!
I simply must disagree that Sarah in Labyrinth has no character arc, she doesn't have a traditional arc perhaps but it wasn't a defining part of some many teenage girls childhoods just because of Bowie.
Talking about puppetry in TV and film and not mentioning The Thunderbirds is a missed opportunity.
I love the acknowledgement of practical effects being just as impressive and valuable as digital effects, though. What is sometimes captured on camera can be truly mind-blowing.
A great example is the whale models used for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. They where so convincing that animal rights groups went to set to check that none of the animals was being harmed or threatened. They left without a fuss when they saw that no real whales were filmed for the making of that movie.
Have you ever seen The Company of Wolves? I always lump that in with Legend, Dark Crystal etc, when talking iconic fantasy films of the 80's, and I love showing it to people :D
I frankly think the critical and commercial disappointments of Dark Crystal and Labyrinth is one of the great crimes of cinema, and an indictment of modern humanity. I was a kid when I saw both on 80s release and knew even then that they were both masterpieces.
Have you known about "31 MINUTOS?"
Can you make a video about it (maybe a side/bonus video at least)
To be little optimistic, I can think of at least one financially successful original film in recent years that utilized puppets: Everything Everywhere All At Once. Racacoonie was an animatronic puppet (and I guess you could argue when the rocks move around that's technically puppetry). That movie used a real blend of effects, which I honestly think is usually the best option when it comes to effective VFX.
Always a good day when you wake up to a new Patrick Willems video essay.
Also go watch Defuntland's series on Jim Hanson's career fair warning the least video will make you cry.
Is Meet the Feebles Muppet cinema?
I’m disappointed you didn’t even mention Five Nights at Freddy’s. Not only is it the most recent Jim Henson production and a pretty good “muppet” film in its own regards, but it also partially sparked an interest in animatronics in the modern day!
I liked FNAF and all and I agree the practical effects were amoung the best aspects of the movie. However, JH didn't really have anything to do with it. He is long gone sadly and while his old company did. It is a project of theirs amongst many many other movies past and present. So it isn't special in that regard or part of the history of puppets or puppets in movies. Auto-animatronics are not really puppets and they were essentially invented by Walt Disney Imgineering. Not sure they have gone out of style since they first came around really and are still widely used today. I don't think FNAF gave them a real popularity a boost as much as the games and later the movie capitalized on their popularity through the ages. In short, neat movie but not relevant IMO to this essay.
As someone who makes a lot of videos about cartoons and Muppets, this was terrific to watch as it breaks down a lot of the reasoning behind why so many people love Jim Henson and the characters he helped to create.
This is probably my favorite video you've ever made. Not just because I love the Muppets, but the writing, jokes, and other gags were all on point and got several good chuckles out of me.
I know you sort of touched on this around puppets giving live actors something to act off of, but I think you missed out on a great example of this. Apparently, quite frequently when a Muppet is on a talk show, whoever is doing tech will auto-pilot and put the lav mic on the actual Muppet, rather than micing the performer, leading to someone spending longer than you'd think trying to figure out why the mic isn't picking up Kermit. Just one more great piece of evidence for the Puppets really being real and feeling like their own characters.
What a fantastic waste of Griffin Newman and his vast wealth of knowledge and opinions on this topic.
still amazed to see how well Little Shop of Horrors holds up to even today.
Have been waiting for someone to talk about Where The Wild Things Are - that movie hit deep when I saw in the theater-to the point that I’ve been hesitant to watch it again. I understand a movie about a child’s internal battle with loneliness and existential crisis isn’t going to be a commercial hit but I’ve had a hard time finding a solid critical analysis of the film that recognizes what it did so well.
Your views on the Labyrinth's story are infuriating😂
Wonderful! Always a breath of fresh air to see your latest video drop.
Thank you for acknowledging the 'Ello Worm like he deserves.
Great video and congrats on the desk! You deserve it! Also, it seems you changed the angle of your rim light. I like it.
Earth to Ned was a sitcom starring an alien puppet on Dinsey+ that was so much fun but got canceled after one season and even worse, was removed from the streaming service last year. Now the only way to watch it is through "ulterior" streaming sites but I can't even imagine the frustration of bringing an alien to life and having your work removed with no DVD release.
Absolutely great video Patrick! Thanks!
The song of Ello the Worm from Labyrinth performed by Jake Torpy and Nobbles was excellent. I loved it!!!
Did you make this just for me? What a perfect thing to have pop up on a sick sunday thx bbg