Cheap Guitar Neck Transformation Part 3 - Stainless Steel Refret, Level, Crown & Polish
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- Chapters
0:00 Slot Preparation
0:50 Fret Preparation
1:44 Fret installation with Hot Hide Glue!
3:40 Clip the Ends
4:08 Edge the Ends (Part 1)
4:32 Test the Neck for Straightness + Start Leveling!
5:19 Fix Low Spots the Pro Way!
6:00 Understring Leveling
6:35 Edge + Round the Fret Ends (Part 2)
8:06 Recrown + Polish
10:07 Part 4 Intro - See You There!
Welcome to Part 3 of this 6 part video series. This one's a big one: refretting. I'm using Jescar .110" x .057" stainless steel fretwire, and using fresh hot hide glue before pressing them in.
I'm going over fret slot preparation, fret preparation, clipping the ends, leveling and recrowning -- the whole nine. - Hudba
![How To Refret A Guitar [EASY and MINIMAL TOOLS TUTORIAL]](/img/n.gif)
Hey dude it's JH thanks for putting up this vid, you should be charging for this info, it's gold!
Absolutely dude. Also down with the Night Panda. Night Pandas FOR LIFE!
@@guitar_md hahaha yeah buddy!
Thanks
Thank you so much. Made my morning!
Let me just start by telling you how much I enjoyed this series and how good/clear your videos are (and I watched too many!) I've always wondered how does one not destroy the wood/finish when going as hard with a beveling file if you want the edge of the frets to be completely flush with the wood though?
Good question I still don't have an answer to. My friend does it by hand with a Nicholson file, close to the way I showed, and doesn't seem to go through the finish.
When I do it, I usually do. It seems all but inevitable. Generally you'll only graze it though, and if you want to wet sand and buff it out, that's an option. Or touch up with shellac.
If you angle the file enough, you can avoid this. But then you might risk beveling the frets too far in. Fret ends are actually one of the last frontiers for me with all this stuff. Been doing refrets for over 10 years but I still have yet to fully master the edging and rounding. Not sure why I've struggled so much with it.
The edging is tricky for the reason you describe. And then also, it's not quite obvious when the frets are truly flush. I've had times the file was clearly filing away the wood/finish, but the fret ends still felt sharp, and rounding them didn't help much either.
We all have our struggles and weak spots. The methods I used here are my most up to date (for the most part), but I'm still trying to find better ways to do some of these things. Nothing more frustrating than spending a couple hours edging, rounding, and burnishing the fret ends, only for them to still feel like they're sticking out and uncomfortable to play. It can be very tricky to get this, though ironically most people struggle with the rest of the aspects of a refret, which are easy for me.
Funny how that works!
@@guitar_md thanks so much for such a detailed answer!
the information in this series is just what I needed. I got a roasted maple neck from china and the woodwork looks great but the frets are terrible. I thought of just leveling and dressing them but it seems they're also not seated properly. if I bounce a steel ruler on some of the frets it makes a kind of dead sound so i think i need to bite the bullet and go for a re-fret. might be a good opportunity to try stainless frets. the hide glue is a good tip too. when i tried to fix the dead frets with thin CA glue the glue didn't get on the fingerboard as i waxed it first, but it wicked from inside the fret slot and was visible on the surface for quite some distance from the fret.
These days I'm using Titebond as it's even easier! Or the Titebond Hide Glue, or Old Brown Glue. The longer open time is definitely nice. I like hide glue for the crystalline structure it dries to, like rock candy -- can only be good for the tone. Maybe makes no difference at all. Many people use plain old Titebond wood glue with great results. But I have a soft spot for hide glue.
Another thing I want to delve more into in my videos is the Rectify Master Katana, and specific leveling techniques I use. Here's one concept I drew up:
imgur.com/gallery/BJ90JWe
I use leveling like that *all* the time. It's important it's done under string tension as you can actually play and bend the strings right after to check your work. The idea is you don't want to level under the High E string, as this will necessitate lowering the saddle to keep the same action, defeating the whole purpose. To flatten the radius you want to focus on the ADGB area. You get the frets lower where the E will be bent, and the E saddle stays the same height.
Also keeping in mind that the string rides along the fret as you bend. So if the fret gets *lower* towards the middle, it's similar to making the saddle *higher* as you bend, which gives you additional clearance.
Of course, you level under the ADGB strings, so those saddles will have to come down a bit, particularly the D and G.
I use the Katana for most of my understring leveling and *also* use it to carve relief into the frets on the Low E and A strings. I set it to a couple thousandths of relief, put scotch magic tape over the sandpaper on the bottom of the tool to cover the first 3-4 frets, then level in an X pattern under the E and A strings.
With the neck dead straight. What this does is it carves both a little relief *and* fallaway into the frets themselves under the Low E and A. So your neck can be dead straight, for nice low, easy to play action on the rest of the strings, while the Low E and A have more breathing room for less buzzing.
This technique can also be used *before* putting the frets in. But with stainless it's trickier as they don't conform to irregularities in the surface like nickel silver might.
That's one reason I'm considering a J. Edwards Fractal Fret Press. About 300 bucks. But I've done a lot of fretwork and for compound radius boards, it would be a godsend. Check it out, if only to ogle it! Very neat tool, to say the least.
Let me know how it goes if you decide to go ahead with a stainless refret. I do hope this video can help you. I also recommend referring to my Compound Radius video, where I explain a lot more in much greater detail.
it's an update to my Video 2 in this series. I think Video 2 in this series was incorrect and I've learned more since then. So check this one out if you get a chance:
czcams.com/video/JFj_SmpBCuo/video.htmlsi=wm0If9QzT47gHaBI
Feel free to keep in touch with me here and let me know if you need any assistance. Thanks again so much for the support!
@@guitar_md wow. what a great and detailed response. so nice to see someone so enthusiastic to share their knowledge and experience . i'll definitely check out all your videos. with such skills i imagine you can turn most average or even unplayable guitars into something on par with the playability of a custom shop with some care and patience and without breaking the bank. I don't mind paying a skilled luthier for their services but I'd like to do as much as I'm capable of myself. thanks for sharing
@@larrysteinke1839 One of my goals with my channel is to empower people to do their own work. I have so much more planned, particularly in terms of making tutorials on setups.
My go-to method is setting the neck dead straight first. I prefer using a digital neck relief gauge or a digital action gauge. For the digital action gauge, I capo the 1st fret, then use a popsicle stick or dowel threaded over the strings to depress one of the strings at the last fret. Then I test for the distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the 7th fret using the digital action gauge.
it's best to check relief on Bass / Middle / Treble sides instead of just at one location, for a more complete picture.
With the neck straight, I either put a capo on the 1st fret or leave it there if it was already there. Then set the action at the 12th fret. I use the digital action gauge with the guitar in the playing position, and set each string height individually. Radius doesn't matter. I always go by individual string heights.
I like to set things to what I call the "lowest reasonable action." Which is around .030" GBE, then around .035" D, .040"-.045 A, and .046-.060" on the Low E.
This is *super* low, but that's the point. Next step is to set the action at the 1st fret by filing the nut slots down. Again, I use a digital action gauge to check action at the 1st fret.
Generally, the lowest you want to go is .018" EAD, and .010" GBE at the 1st fret.
So now you have the neck dead straight with no relief, .018" EAD and .010" GBE at the 1st fret, and around .050" E, .040" A, .035" D, .030" GBE at the 12th fret.
This is super low action, but with good fretwork, it should play well *with a light pick attack* without buzzing if the frets are in good shape.
Any buzzes/choking out are *now* addressed via understring leveling. Doing understring leveling with the neck dead straight allows you to use a straight, flat leveling beam. I prefer either the Rectify Master Lite, or Rectify Master Katana. The Stewmac Fretbars are too bulky in my opinion. They will work, but are so thick you need to jack the strings up a *lot* to fit it under there.
Another option is 1" carbon fiber i-beam from Dragonplate in New York. I used to make carbon fiber leveling beams out of that material by cutting hardwood handles for them on the table saw. You don't need the handles but they do stabilize it and make it nicer to hold.
Either way, whatever tool you choose (Rectify Master is the best readily available commercial option IMO -- you can reach him via Davide Bissoli on Facebook, very, very nice guy) --
-- then you level under string tension. Very simple process. Jack the strings up using Davide's "magic string jack," load the tool with 320 or 220 grit sandpaper, slip it under a pair of strings, and level along the string paths.
Where the Rectify Master Katana shines is adding that relief to the frets themselves, as I mentioned earlier. I don't know anyone else that does this, aside from Dave Collins up in Michigan. I found out years after I started doing this that he does something similar.
I originally got the idea for it from Big John at Big John's Guitars in Denton, Texas. But anyway.
That's the routine. Neck relief first. Then capo at 1st, set action at 12th. Then set the action at the 1st. The reason I get the neck dead straight and set the action so low is I believe a guitar *should* perform at the "lowest reasonable action," regardless of where the final desired action really is.
And setting it to that "lowest reasonable action" will expose all issues with the frets that need to be addressed. You address that with understring leveling in real time, test your work immediately after leveling -- and you can't miss.
You'll know when it's done because you'll play it and it'll sound perfect, and after you take the strings off, crown and polish, there won't be any surprises when you string it up again.
Anyway, hope that helps for now. I am slowly drafting out ideas for a video explaining this very concept. But this is my approach for doing setups and it works 100% of the time with great results.
I don't know anyone else doing setups this way but to me it's the most streamlined and most accurate approach that guarantees the best results. It takes all the guesswork out of everything. The guitars can be adjusted to personal preference *after* all that's been done. The only way to really test how well the frets are working is to get that action low with a straight neck -- that's the real litmus test.
Anyway, again, hope that helps for now! Would love to get a video up going over all this. I really would. Getting closer!
@@guitar_md much appreciate the detailed information.
when you think about the geometry of a vibrating string against the imperfect curve of a neck under tension and flattening beyond around the 14th fret then the Rectify Master makes perfect sense. one thing i didn't quite get though is in your first step of setting the neck dead straight. i assume you mean adjust the truss rod so the neck is perfectly flat, at which point there would be no gap at the 7th string, so then why the digital gauge? if you get around to making that video i'll definitely be looking forward to that.
@larrysteinke1839 the digital gauge is to ensure that the neck doesn't go into a back bow.
It's very easy to go to -.001" or -.002" inadvertently, and testing with a straightedge, it will still look like the neck is dead straight unless you have very good lighting and look very closely.
I do this with the digital neck relief gauge. Haven't tested whether this would also work using the string as a straightedge and a normal digital action gauge. Unfortunately nobody makes a digital neck relief gauge for bass, so a straightedge is still the best option there if the digital action gauge doesn't work. Which I don't think it will, as it can only check the distance between the bottom of the string and top of the 7th fret.
The digital neck relief gauge that spans frets 1 and 17 and checks the 7th will tell you immediately if you're dead straight or in a slight backbow. Even -.001" will throw things off compared to being right at .000". I emphasize getting the neck "as straight as possible" as even these precision tools only have a tolerance of plus or minus .001" anyway.
Another trick is to use a straightedge and a .001" feeler gauge. Check each fret with the straightedge in place. Ideally it won't be able to slip under the straightedge anywhere. With a backbow it'll slip under the first couple frets, with a forward bow, under the middle frets.
I mostly only use straightedges these days when planing fingerboards to make sure they're level. But it does have its uses outside of that. I just prefer digital whenever possible as it's so much faster and easier to get accurate measurements
I am totally refinishing a Maple neck can I also use shellac of the fretboard I am wanting to use Zinnser Amber.. , Would I put the frets in first or use the Stewmac teflon fret dam in the slots. I have to redo the slots anyway I had to sand off the finish with a radius block that was on the fret board there before.
You can use Zinsser, but I'd highly recommend mixing your own shellac fresh from flakes. Garnet or orange shellac should suit your needs well, or a mix of garnet / orange and super blonde.
I don't have any experience with Zinsser outside of the Bullseye shellac primer. I've heard some people say the Zinsser never hardened, or went gummy over time -- shellac doesn't have a great shelf life. I've never had that issue with fresh mixed shellac and can only attest to that. But you may get great results with Zinsser.
Just had to get that out of the way as a heads up.
As for frets first or fret damn in the slots: on this neck, I did the shellac finish before fretting, and I didn't use any fret dams. Just went right over them. If you apply it with a paper towel or tack free cloth in thin layers like I advise, you'll be OK without dams in the fret slots. The shellac dries almost instantly and the coats are so thin, I don't think there's any risk of it gumming up the fret slots.
The benefit of applying shellac *before* adding the frets, aside from ease of application, is you also maximize your fret height that way. The shellac finish is so ridiculously thin it probably doesn't matter at all either way. But finishing *before* fretting means the frets sit on top of the finish, and the finish won't pool up around the frets.
Really though, for shellac, it's more about ease of application. And doing it before the frets go in wins, hands down.
However, I *have* gone over this finish with shellac again *after* the frets were in. I used shellac on a Q-tip. You could probably do the same with a small piece of cloth. I've avoided getting shellac on the frets but it probably comes off pretty easily if it does.
My personal method is just to shellac over the board after pulling the frets, and before the new frets go in. I also do this *before* preparing the fret slots, just in case. I don't think shellac buildup in the slots would be a huge risk but it does help to clean the slots *after* applying the shellac.
A fret cleaning or fret slotting saw will quickly remove any dried shellac if any happened to make it into the slot. I haven't had any issues with chipping from that either.
So -- shellac, then clean / prep the fret slots, then the frets go in, would be how I'd do it.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions, don't hesitate to update me!
You are very meticulous and precise with your work....one question though after the preliminary levelling you say you string it up and continue the process......doesnt the neck goes into a small relief when the strings are introduced or you use the truss rod to counter that and bring the neck to total straightness to continue the levelling?Maybe its a dumb question....
Good question. I do bring the neck straight under tension, *or* I use the Rectify Master Katana to match the relief of the neck.
I'm swamped with work but I've been in the process of redoing this video series as Separate videos with updated information. I'd love to do one on the Katana specifically and mention its importance for fretwork, even on refrets like this.
The options for understring leveling are either to get the neck straight under tension, or use the Katana, which can curve, and match the relief of the neck under string tension.
@@guitar_md Mmm nice thx a lot...i assumed straightness under string tension too,as far as katana goes i have only heard about it but never tried.My process is to level the frets with one big beam that covers all frets and then put a fallaway in the last 6 or 7 of them but i think adding the..under tension levelling can potentially reveal some issues that you cant see otherwise so i think ill add it to my routine.Thx for the quick reply.
if the frets are all level, then what is the benefit of the compound radius? Or...there is something that I am not understanding about this...I think. Or how could all frets be level when you have a compound radius? It seems illogical...but I'm sure I am just not grasping something about it.
Excellent question. This video covers this perfectly:
czcams.com/video/EeXkvwmH0ts/video.html
I'm also working on a new video that's going to be called something like How to Get Crazy Low Action, where I'm going to cover the compound radius in much more depth, including some mathematical formulas, and after reading your question, I think I'll include a brief explanation about why you need it. This is something I'm actually going to have to put a lot of time into, because right now I can't explain it simply.
But the long story short is this: you want to level along the string paths, NOT parallel with the center of the neck. We want the surfaces underneath the strings leveled, because that's what we play on. And if you level along the string paths, you *automatically* will create a compound radius by the time everything is leveled.
This video I'm working on is going to be huge, and it's not going to be ready for quite a while. I keep modifying things. But I'm also experimenting with a brand new fret leveling technique that I have not seen anywhere else. Still in the 'prototype' phase, and am in the process of shooting the videos for it, writing the script, and editing everything together. But that will be an excellent companion video to this series. And the first part is about how to do a compound radius, and why. The second part is my new fret leveling technique to deal with string bends on the G, B, and high E strings.
Very excited! And thanks so much for this comment. It actually made me realize that for this Crazy Low Action video, I'm going to need to explain *why* you need to do a compound radius, because the reasons are certainly not obvious, and it's something most people don't understand. I myself have had to do a lot of research, and continue to do research, so I can understand and then explain these things as concisely as possible.
I'll leave you with one more thing: the neck is narrower at the top, and wider at the bottom. It's a section of a cone. There is a mathematical formula to determine what one end of the radius has to be, when the other radius is provided. But that Auburn Amps video explains it very well, so check that out if you get a chance.
Thanks for the wonderful video. Could you please tell me, did you prefer Fretbar over Katana or vice versa, which one is dead straight?
I don't have the tools to test either, unfortunately. I have a Stewmac leveling beam but I think something like a jointer table might be more accurate.
The Katana is indispensable for its ability to curve. I use that a lot to carve relief into the frets on the bass side. With the Fretbar you have to put the neck into a backbow before leveling to accomplish this.
Another option is 1" carbon fiber ibeam from Dragonplate Carbon Fiber. I've made beams out of that before and epoxied on a hardwood handle. You can coat carbon fiber with epoxy and then mill it dead flat if you have the ability to do so. I think a large surface plate would be best.
However-- I've had great results with the Katana. It's thinner and lighter than the Fretbar and I think more accurate when used in the playing position for that reason. But also works with the guitar on its back.
Davide Bissoli is a real class act and is really struggling. Did you know Sadowsky of Warwick basses was the original sponsor of the Katana? If it's good enough for him...
I own a Nano Katana, Katana, and Bass Katana. I got the RSBB version for good measure -- they have two way truss rods so if you drop it or it goes out of spec you can re-straighten it.
The Fretbars are also fine but I think too thick for comfortable understring leveling. I own all of them and have used them successfully but I always come back to the Katana.
Davide might not be making them forever either and I'd get one while it's still possible. I've been meaning to promote his tools more just out of good will and a true love for them - he's gotten screwed over a lot of times by bigger manufacturers and nobody respects his multiple patents on understring leveling tools, including Stewmac.
But...whatever works, works. I love the Katana. I did used to make carbon fiber levelers inspired by his Rectify Master Lite line. Carbon fiber is super expensive but if you know someone with a big surface plate -- you can always recoat the carbon fiber with epoxy and re-level an infinite amount of times. I think it may be the ultimate material for this application.
However, it can't flex. Only the Katana can. Being able to easily carve an exact amount of relief into the frets is indispensable. Sometimes I even combine that with fallaway by using Scotch tape over the first 4 inches or so of the sandpaper on the Katana and level from the 1st fret to last at the same time. That can provide more room for those Low E and A strings to ring out.
The Katana for me is essential..and also can be used as a flat leveling beam. If I could only have one fret leveling beam that would be the one
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Recently, in this video, I saw understring leveling with Martin truss rod.
czcams.com/video/VXvh_xyYRkc/video.html&ab_channel=SamDeeks
That was also one of the reasons I searched the net for the original method, that's how I got to Fertbar, Katana and your video ;)@@guitar_md