Why Roland re-released their 2019 flagship - VIRAL BEATS
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2024
- In this video, we explain the reason Roland needed to re-release their 2019 flagship keyboard.
Special thanks to Ed Diaz, who catches way more heat than he deserves, on behalf of Roland. He's a good dude, and his tutorials are invaluable.
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Roland FANTOM EX Upgrade Install Guide
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Exploring the Fantom EX (No Talking) - VIRAL BEATS
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Montage M8x is too difficult to use for me … The UI of the Roland Fantom is a dream, and this dream come true ! 🎹
What is a dream come true, the release of the EX keyboards? People hate the Fantom's UI, but I am ok with it. As a synthesizer, it is great! As a workstation, it needs work, and it doesn't appear that Roland wants to do the actual work to make it right.
The Fantom is for me the best synth / workstation todays. I have the Fantom 8 since 2 years, upgraded to EX and it’s a very very very good machine !!!! 🎹🌈
I think that is one of reasons for them being ok with a move like this; workstations are becoming a thing of the past, so competition is pretty non-existent. Don't get me wrong, the hardware is great, they just need to tighten up on some of the basics, like time stretching in the sampler, polyphony, etc. Releasing the EX Upgrade for $200 then repackaging their 2019 hardware is a bold move, but the Fantom has been problematic for Roland. It was either go all in or back to formula with a new one. They made their choice, it seems.
I liked my Fantom when it first came out. Liked all the updates. And I like my Fantom today. On rare occasions, if I have a polyphony problem, I can just create a reduced-polyphony instrument via resampling. Inconvenient, but it solves the problem. There are automated ways to easily resample.
I loved the Fantom after getting it, which was a year after its release. After running into so many polyphony issues last year, using the Fantom as an outboard synthesizer works a lot better than using it as a workstation. It's not as bad as it once was, but I am also not using it the same. The updates have been great, but the lack of time stretching still haunts this keyboard. There are definitely workarounds. I chose to just record the keyboard into a DAW, when it gets too crazy.
I love my 2019 Fantom.. me personally i don't care about the ex upgrades. All the sounds it has already get the job done for me
That's good. It definitely has all that you need to get the job done, just limited on any new sounds, minus the n/zyme. Personally, I don't mind it being left up to the user, but it was pretty bare bones, in the beginning. While I feel the EX is closer to what it should have been, the n/zyme is more than enough to pull the Fantom's weight, as a flagship. I was pretty surprised when Roland reintroduced it, after 2 years, with no update.
The Fantom would get the job done for me, if only the sampling and polyphony were stable enough to get through, without issue. I could look past the outdated pads, but time stretching is an essential component to sampling. Without it, it eliminates an entire type of production that existed, with previous Fantom models.
how do i delete the backing tracks off the pad i deleted 16 mp3 track and it saying internal memory is full please need help
@@flameversace8888 Every time you Sample to Pad, it will automatically overwrite the existing sample. After you confirm to overwrite the existing file, don't sample anything new into it, and repeat the process for every pad. I have never deleted them off the back end, though. That said, I had no idea there was a secondary storage spot for pad samples. It wouldn't surprise me, but the pads have gotten the least attention, considering they are not performance pads. I still haven't tried pad mode, for example. Point being, there are elements in the features that haven't been explored by me, personally. I hope this helps, though
ooo yess
...интересно а как будет с обновлениями и их покупкой,если человек купил фантом с рук и там установлена ех (как он установит что то с своего аккаунта там ведь другая лицензия???
From what I hear, the EX doesn't transfer over if you wipe the machine. I haven't tested it yet, but I guess that would mean no expansions for used owners. Now I am curious, because the EX Upgrade links to your account, but also stays on the Fantom, if you were to leave it, in the keyboard.
I got the Fantom 8 brand new two months ago and i just heard the news about the EX update last week and the 1st thing I thought they were gonna fix was with the polyphony issue, but i guess i was wrong......I might add a MCP as a 2nd board soon
That's a winning combination, for sure. As far as the EX Upgrade, Roland needs to make it a free upgrade now, especially for people in your situation. The EX is something else, especially if you don't already have the n/zyme. It's like holding your Fantom hostage and demanding a ransom. Hopefully they work it out. Good luck with your setup
Coming from an RD-2000 with a bunch of software synths, I was deciding between the Fantom 8 and the Montage M8x. The M8x won. Your mileage may vary but hey, I almost went a completely different way with the Nord Stage 4 which I still have yet to play.
That's cool. Definitely different types, between the brands. The Fantom has always been historically known as a workstation, but the current version was first classified as a synthesizer. Roland finally decided on both, but there was this huge back and forth, in the beginning. The Montage M8x is a solid choice. I've been seeing it around a bit, lately.
IMHO, they should have kept the linear sequencer from the FA and time stretching of the audio on the pads. I mean, look how old the Fantom G6 is and what it could do.
That was my reference for time stretching, which I still cannot believe is not included in this Fantom, after all these years. I know pads weren't much back then, but Roland also knows how to do performance pads, or at least modern trigger pads. Linear sequencing would be nice. The whole grouping thing is weird.
The aftertouch is my biggest disappointment with the Fantom. After owning a D50 for many years I expected it to be at least as good on the Fantom and didn’t think about testing it in the shop before purchase. I can’t believe how unusable it is even after adjusting the sensitivity to full; as I don’t want to strain my fingers or ruin my joints I don’t use it at all. I would happily pay for an upgrade to fix it.
That is what gets me about all of this; the Fantom would be nearly perfect if they would just take care of some of the basics. It is completely insane to re-release the hardware, with all of these problems, just to avoid dealing with the updating procedure. The Fantom still struggles with polyphony, and the After Touch update only seemed to make a difference to some of the patches. There is a reason why so many professionals decided against this version of the Fantom. This move by Roland will just have more professionals disregard their flagship, in the future. It is kind of sad to witness this, out of a legacy brand like Roland.
I had the D50 when it came out. I sold it and bought another two in the next decades, all the same bad aftertouch. I had JV, XP, JX, JD all with bad aftertouch. Hammer it and if you're lucky you get a 100 midi cc, not more. With the D50, only with Cubase or with an expression pedal assigned I first realized the full magnificence of Persing's and Scott's factory presets.
was disappointed when Korg Kronos was "replaced" with Nautilus, I was waiting for the real replacement, and we got Nautilus AT. So I started to look around again at hardware workstations and arrangers;
Recently purchased a Korg Pa5X-76 (over the Genos2), then heard about the Fantom EX release, and considered getting a Fantom-6 with $400 price drop + EX upgrade, but was only finding floor models...
got a great deal on a new Fantom EX-6, and it's working great. By the time the Fantom EX is over and done, I'm hoping the next Korg flagship workstation is released...it never ends!
That is definitely true. Of course, the Genos is in another class, altogether. I think that is one of the considerations of Roland: the so called "death of the workstation." With limited competition, it gives them a little bit of flexibility. It may not be perfect, but the Fantom is still among the best, out of only a few workstations. Like it or not, this is what we have, right now. It's a shame that with today's technology and demand for sonics, Roland doesn't do better. Then again, there is a fan noise in the Montage M, so they all have their issues.
@@VIRALBEATS360 agreed about Genos 2, but the Korg Pa5X with the Player 1, Player 2 blend and fade, among other things, made it my choice for an Arranger.
Workstations, I was really hoping for a Kronos2 replacement, and was very disappointed with the Nautilus/Nautilus AT.
Hopefully, I can get my money's worth from the Fantom EX for the next few years while waiting for the next Korg flagship workstation.
I was always a Roland first, then Korg, then Yamaha synth user.
The Fantom has a lot of Roland vintage synth goodness, and n/zyme which will provide new sounds; it integrates with the AIRA system, which I have, via the MX-1; I also have a System-8.
Haven't found anything perfect, that does everything I want but I keep looking; also got the new Arturia AstroLab - great not having to bring a computer out, and I've owned V Collection for many years, and Pigments since it was released. I'd like to see Spectrasonics do something similar in hardware for Omnisphere.
Also recently got the free Behringer vintage vst; the hardware looks promising, with a huge touchscreen though doesn't appear to be color...
Unfortunately, my vision of the ideal future workstation isn't going to become a reality any time soon, as it would destroy the profits of current hardware workstation makers with all their proprietary "engines" - it should be possible to do the same thing in standard computer plugins such as VST, AU...
Cheers!
@@zoomzoom3950 Well said. I am finally digging into Arturia again, myself. You should definitely get your money's worth in sounds, with everything you have combined. That n/zyme goes a long way, so does the rest of the EX. The drums, sampler, and sonics however...that's another story. I loaded the Fantom up, but it does take a combination of items to get it going. That said, I am much happier using the Fantom as a synthesizer for sound design. While it may have some cool tricks as a workstation, it does best at creating custom tones.
@@VIRALBEATS360 Thanks! I agree, the Fantom really shines as a synth sound creation machine + all the vintage Roland sounds. I haven't dug deep into the sequencing, sampling, part programming and song creation aspects, I've just been exploring the sounds and factory presets to see how they made them...
One thing Roland can do better is documentation, and more in-depth intermediate tutorials, the tutorials are either so basic or so advanced, little in between...teach me to fish, not what fishing means (basic) or how to run a fishing fleet business (advanced), tech me to be a fishing pro (intermediate), and I'll take it from there.
Cheers!
3200.00 opposed to 2999.00, they charged 200.00 anyway to a load the ex and put a sticker on it!😮
Completely insane...like we wouldn't notice
Isn't the Fantom + $200 EX Update about $500 cheaper than the Fantom EX? Sure the install is a pain and a sign of Roland's laziness, but after completing it the only difference is the "EX" branding on the newer board. Nobody sees the top of my board when I play out, except me and the bassist next to me. But yeah, a $200 tax for taking a gamble on this thing back in 2020 👀
Yeah, it's a crazy move, but what I've noticed is that more professionals began taking an interest in the Fantom, as of recent. Maybe it was the release of the EX Upgrade, or the n/zyme finally making its rounds because of the marketing. Whichever the case, it is like someone here in the comments mentioned, anyone who understands simple directions could figure it out. As a matter of fact, the first time I completed an update was within a few months of getting the Fantom. It wasn't really that big of a deal to me, but if Roland is attempting a new demographic, I could see how people would quickly turn away from the Fantom, without the update. While the EX didn't add much, half of it is the n/n/zyme, which really makes the Fantom.
The price is good for the buyer, terrible for the resale. If you are talking about the European market, the "new" Fantom EX is much more expensive, so it would be even better to buy a used one and simply update it, yourself. Speaking of which, I just wiped mine and it kept the EX Upgrade, so buying used without needing to purchase the EX is also possible. Don't know how that would affect future updates (if any) but there you have it.
Not sure what the beef is. Right now I can purchase a new Fantom and upgrade it for less money than a new Fantom EX, and all I lose is the EX logo. It’s like when Korg released their M3 and then the M3 xpanded - same hardware, just convenience and a new badge. As a potential new buyer myself, this works for me.
Saying it’s as it should have been at launch is ridiculous in this day and age. Very few things these days release and stay unchanged for the next 4 or 5 years. Early adopters or those who just bought the older model…that’s how life goes.
I get that, but the Fantom was bare bones when it was released, in 2019. Even now, there is hardly anything new in the way of sound. This is the flagship keyboard of a legacy brand, with polyphony issues and inadequate sampling (no time stretching) that were never resolved. Instead, they re-released the same exact 2019 hardware in 2024... 2017 trigger pads and all. However, the real beef is that while this may work for potential new buyers, Fantom owners like myself had to pay for all the upgrades, and now have a piece of hardware that is devalued by nearly $1,000.
The updating process may be a convoluted mess by today's standard, but simply front loading the EX in the old hardware doesn't resolve any of the issues we have been dealing with, as Fantom owners. These are very basic issues that Roland has the ability to fix, but instead hide behind what they have already released.
It is one thing to re-release updated hardware, but it is something else entirely to re-package and sell the exact same product to your customers. The EX Upgrade is 6 only months old, the n/zyme is 2 years old, and the hardware is almost 5 years old. Roland already had a problem with having no new sounds in their flagship keyboard. Now it has the EX, which is 50% n/zyme, 25% ACB, and 25% Vpiano. While these are welcome additions to the Fantom, they are limited patches with the same technology...still no new sounds beyond the n/zyme.
While it may be useful for the tool that it is, the Fantom lacks sounds, leaving it mostly up to the user to develop. This is entirely acceptable, but the way Roland is marketing the Fantom EX as some new revolution in sound, is shameful... especially when they already hit us with the sales pitch for the n/zyme that we all paid for, 2 years ago. They already developed the ACB technology, we are all familiar with the Jupiter 8, SH101, etc. I'm not saying that they sound bad or anything, just nothing new...
Meanwhile, Roland is marketing this old machine and technology as something new and revolutionary. Instead of listening to their flagship customers, they are simply bypassing the investment we made and marketing to new ones. The problem is that they are marketing to professionals who don't appreciate companies who move like this. It will hurt their brand, as the Fantom has already been problematic for Roland. This is simply a byproduct of them falling behind.
@@VIRALBEATS360 I think accounting dept. called R&D and told them they got to stretch the 2019 model into the next decade since RolandCloud devs burn all the cash.
Wasn't there a issue with the polyphony of the original Fantom-7? Quite a few keyboardists sold their Fantom because of this issue.
I completed the updating and loading process twice without issues. I mean any sane individual shouldn't have a single problem following basic instructions.
While I agree that the update process is simple enough when you follow the instructions, Roland's update process is antiquated like those old trigger pads, and most of us are familiar with the capabilities of today's technology. Re-releasing the same 2019 hardware in 2024 for a flagship is a reflection of how far behind Roland is, and why other companies are doing so much better, technologically and sonically speaking.
I reckon the Montage M sales will be outstripping the Fantom in due course, if not already, because the hardware is much more powerful (usability concerns aside). A lot of buyers won't want to invest in a platform that's nearly 5 years old at this point. So marketing the EX as a new model is an attempt to at least give the appearance of being more modern to the less well informed, and thus hold onto some of the market share. I suspect they'll have a new model with better hardware in about 2 years time. That would mean a window of about 7 years between major models, similar to how long it took for Montage to Montage M. Of course, Korg may have something up their sleeves...
That is one of the motivating factors for putting this video together. People have been asking why, especially when there is no change to the hardware. Being a Fantom owner, I felt it was my duty to inform everyone. What I have also noticed is that some of these professionals have recently acquired the Fantom, needing to go through this updating headache, at the outset. I'm certain Roland got tired of dealing with it, considering their attitude towards flagship customers. They are so proud of what they developed, we should just accept everything that comes our way... The time stretching thing is crazy to me, especially considering other equipment Roland has developed. They could have at least updated the pads on the EX keyboards. Either way, this move just forces more people to deal with Roland's flagship problems. I think you are correct about the timeline, and this is just to kick the can, until then.
No need to buy a complex Montage… if i had to make a choice todays, this would be without hesitate a Roland Fantom EX 8. A want a synth with a sampler. And the GH50 is the most realistic piano keyboard I have ever tested … same as RD-2000. 🤪😇
@@ericvillain3314 I wanted a synth with a sampler, too. While the Fantom does sample, it lacks some of the basics that even Roland samplers have. The very first thing I was interested in was the sampler, so it was the first thing I explored...what a disappointment, that was
@@VIRALBEATS360 the strengh of the ROLAND FANTOM is that it continues to evolve, I won't be surprised if it continues to evolve in the coming months as are the rest of the little things to improve. So far, we keep having Pleasant surprises.
@@ericvillain3314 I Would have to agree with you, there. Shortcomings aside, the n/zyme and EX expansions really make the Fantom. I always saw the hardware as Roland's 10 year plan, which makes sense. However, they don't seem interested in resolving some of the basics, and would just assume repackage the same hardware, instead. Either they have a plan in place for a newer model, or they are scrambling to figure it out. Regardless, this move seems desperate, which is not good for any brand, especially a legacy company like Roland.
This video is inaccurate, because it’s cheaper to get an original phantom and upgrade it, Bennett is to buy a phantom EX which is exactly exactly the same thing
My Fantom was about $3,500 new, and now it goes for as low as $2,600, while the EX is around $3,200. This isn't about how much cheaper you could get the upgrade, it's about why Roland re-released their 2019 flagship, with no change to the hardware. What exactly is inaccurate?
Roland didn’t devalue the keyboard. If you can find an OG Fantom in a store you will save like 1000 bucks at least in Europa, compared to the EX. With the price of the upgrade included…
The EX keyboards are selling for $400 less, and the value of the 2019 Fantom dropped by nearly $1,000. With no new features to the hardware, they are the exact, same, keyboard. That literally devalues their product, and this move by Roland creates less interest in their flagship. Less interest in their product devalues both their product and brand. That is the very essence of losing its value...
@@VIRALBEATS360 ok but I checked price comparison sites and price drop of the Fantom over the last year wasn’t that much. The bigger issue for me with the Roland model is that stuff you buy is connected to your Roland account and not the device.
I got an MC-707 for 600€. All the Zencore I need.
I have really considered doing that, as well... especially after releasing the sound pack.
@@VIRALBEATS360 FYI to update the MC707 you need a SD card and a computer with SD card reader ---while this thing has USB lol
@@wreckage-vs5jv Oh, wow!
I assume you lived through the heyday of synthesizers when every year was a huge milestone in technology. We are not in that tike anymore. New synth releases, especially workstations tend to be evolutionary not revolutionary and build upon the sound content from earlier models. I have 10,000 tones in my Fantom. Most if it was free. How many patches does a Nautilus hold, 2100? And how many extra sound banks Korg/Yanaha offer you? Fantom expansions create their own locations, don’t even rob from the user bank.
I get it, but re-releasing the same hardware after nearly five years, simply to avoid the need to update your keyboard, tells you everything about the process. It also tells you about Roland's inability to resolve some of these issues. They could have spared themselves the embarrassment, but it is clear they have nothing on the table, moving forward with the hardware.
What difference does history, legacy, or competition make if you can't get a handle on some of the basics? This move will hurt Roland's brand, moving forward. I don't care how good of a keyboard they make in comparison to the others, it's not a good look, especially for a legacy company. They completely avoided the Fantom on their 50th Anniversary, without so much as an update...what does that tell you?
@@VIRALBEATS360 - Korg hasn’t improved their workstation hardware since 2011.
@@xp50player Yikes. Korg used to dominate the workstation market, too. Roland is definitely closer to Yamaha, as a company
The Fantom is not a good keyboard... for those who don`t own one hahahaha
It`s a great keyboard. Each company has it`s way of viewing things and putting it together in a workstation.
If it were that great of a keyboard, Roland wouldn't need to re-release it, in the first place... especially after fumbling around with polyphony issues, inadequate sampling, and a terrible update procedure. There is no excuse for these issues in a flagship.
You know, updating a flagship synth which is 3-4 grands with the risk of bricking the device.... It was a silly idea from the start. Synths should be standalone standalone so to speak. Hell, old JP-8080 didn't have internets back then at all and even my volca FM don't require me to download anything.
Also when it's a problem with update installation the company usually blames YOU for doing something wrong. That's why i prefer hardware only solutions. If it's not working you simply send it to the warranty center.
Roland are the worst offenders of that "user error" mentality. I guess that is what eventually happens with legacy brands. We have lost our way, in that regard, for sure. Imagine the laziness, of instead of developing a proper updating system, they simply pre-installed everything on the older hardware. Then what? Eventually they will need to actually take care of it, likely not until their next Fantom, it seems. I get that these companies are struggling, but to take that struggle out of your customers is a huge step in the wrong direction.
@@VIRALBEATS360 wise words, taking the struggle to the customer is a real thing
Roland added a lot of features and content via updates. Most of it was free, and none of it was promised at the outset. They didn’t owe us anything. They added a lot more along the way than Korg or Yamaha. Kronos might have seemed more complete, but it was mostly a scaled down OASYS. Roland started from scratch with the hardware platform and the Zenology architecture. At least we can make all our 2019 Fantoms totally current with the new model. Korg doesn’t even make a flagship anymore. You compare Fantom to Genos?? Not even the same line of business.
I am certainly not comparing the Fantom to the Genos, just simply pointing out that there is nothing to compare to it, on Roland's end. Roland added all of that content because there were no sounds in their flagship, when it came out. Even after the n/zyme was introduced, most of what is being added are older synthesizers, which is fine...just nothing new. Sure, they don't "owe" us anything, but when you pay a premium for a flagship keyboard, there needs to be something that stands out to make it worth the expense. When it comes to new sounds, the Fantom leaves most of it up to the user, which is fine for sound design. However, for producers and players, we require other items, like the standard of time stretching in the sampler, or polyphony that doesn't ruin a live performance.
I don't fault Roland for doing what companies do... I fault them for adopting a lazy standard that makes their brand look weak and sound cheap. Roland only needed to release the Fantom EX keyboards because of issues that should have been resolved years ago. Sure, they are finally getting there, but it is at the expense of their flagship customers.
Scouring through zip folders and copy-pasting random files like you’re trying to install a cracked game, when you’ve actually just paid several hundred dollars for something the product should’ve shipped with at launch…
And now people’ll have to wait for this version to exist for a few years to justify it’s existense, otherwise the people who buy it now will get angry when Roland release something that’s actually new.
Exactly. The old customers would then purchase a new Fantom because by then, it would have been 7 or so years and time for new hardware. It was either this or have every new customer suffer through their process. Seeing how with the release of the EX, people are just beginning to notice the Fantom, Roland needed to do something. It's just a shame that something wasn't improving on what was developed nearly five years ago.
I don't care how revolutionary the technology was, especially with those prehistoric pads... disregarding some of the basics is what got Roland into this mess, to begin with. The update procedure, the polyphony, the sampler...they could have just tightened up these issues, instead. Now Roland looks like a less serious company who takes advantage of their customers.
@@VIRALBEATS360 EXXXXXXXACTLY.
facts bro , roland falling off , they dont even make full feat samplers anymore....just phrase samplers wtf ,,,what they should do is make a full workstation keyboard with the same sampling feats as the mv 8800 series sampler with the high end synth that they have in the Fantom ex ...with hdmi connection and mouse support with a top of the line seq / piano roll .... we need mike acosta back roland yaw fuckin up fr
That's what really bugs me out; the SP, the MV, even the previous Fantom...Roland created these expectations with what they have already released. It's crazy how they are treating their flagship. This move is going to be a real problem for them, in the future. Not a good look for a legacy company
@@VIRALBEATS360 yea Roland movin backwards , but charging folks up for half ass synths / samplers ....Fanton x6 and g6 are the best work station keyboards other then the flagship Mv 8800 sampler synth ...they are amazin gear .....everything else has just been disappointing
@@TStarbeatzI guess that's what happens when you begin to prioritize the software over the hardware. In contrast, Arturia started with software and is doing great with their hardware... developing a Moog-like reputation. That said, not nearly as big of a company, and 25 years younger. Definitely a teachable moment for everyone
But why 1000 euros more than previous non ex models ? Why on earth ???? 1000 euros ? Are you crazy Roland ? Here in Europe Fantom EX is now more expensive than MONTAGE M !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY!!?????????? Roland will sell ZERO units ! ZERO. I always loved Roland.....but now......pfffffffffffffffffffffff
Wow, it's actually more in Europe? Talk about an insult to injury. I know there are different standards in different countries, but that is ridiculous. You wouldn't know it by looking at the rest of their brand, but Roland appears to be slipping. They are definitely struggling when it comes to their flagship
@@VIRALBEATS360 3999 / 4199 and 4699 euros. Even at Th....an..(they normally have great prices.....but not here). What's this ????
@@ursullavandenbord2322 That is insane! Maybe it is because they have been selling less units, in the states. I know a few professionals here, and nobody has a Fantom. When you look around online, most Fantom owners seem to be in Europe and South America. Roland has been struggling in the US market. Most of the Fantoms here sit in Guitar Centers
A 1000 euros more for a 3000 euro synth with a 200 euro firmware update. I'd really like to see the logic behind this price hike. On the other hand the silly Yamaha distribution model in Europe more or less guarantees that you can't get your hands on an M for who knows how long. It seems the 'traditional' synth companies are going astray.
ROLAND IS REALLY REALLY GREAT,,, GREAT AT CHARGING YOU MORE MONEY AFTER YOU MAKE THE PURCHASE... I AM REALLY NOT A FAN OF THE DIRTY SALES/ PRODUCT ETHICS... GOTTA PASS ON THIS ROLAND PRODUCT TOO...
Yeah, it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth... especially when we are talking about a legacy company with their flagship customers. It's just such an A-hole thing to do