Guitarists CAN'T read music! Here's how to fix it... | Ben Eunson
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Why guitarists can't read music, and how you can fix it!
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Reading
01:43 Sight Reading Problem 1
02:40 Sight Reading Problem 2
04:01 Sight Reading Problem 3
05:20 Sight Reading Solution 1
06:29 Sight Reading Solution 2
08:02 Sight Reading Solution 3
08:41 Do Guitarists Need To Read Music At All?
09:53 Final Thoughts - Hudba
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#2 is it. I learned to read on sax a as kid you're constantly reminded of 1 thing to do when you see a note. on a guitar its insane, you can play stuff anywhere. and the notes are all over the place. I can read really well on sax. on my guitar it takes forever.
Absolutely, I completely understand!
I hate guitar because of that... but I still love it... You can't do everything.
Boy do I have something for you... ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/11217113
For that, tab is highly superior
Yes. Since a note or triad can be played almost anywhere, the "problem" is, where to play so you can get there in time, AND get to the next note or triad in time. I took classical guitar lessons, and much of it was "how to get there and back" - preparation. A mix of musical notation, tab, hand written info/pics quickly turned my music sheets into a freakin' mess.
Classical guitarists entered the chat...
The guitar is an instrument that when you confront it with musical notation, what it returns to you instantly is not precise information as in the case of the piano, but rather it presents you with a paradox of choice and that can reach the human mind to be really uncomfortable when what you expect clarity.
The big question to ask before tackling reading is why you want to be able to do it. If you want to play classical it’s absolutely necessary and also as a tool for helping understand theory and the guitar in general or when playing high level jazz it can be very helpful. But outside of absolute necessity I wouldn’t recommend it for most. It can be extremely frusstrating and that time could be better spent on skills more tied directly to ones goals. Classical guitarist here - can read pretty much anything put in front of me, but when learning music in the popular vein i very rarely ever use it. So to summarize it’s definitely a helpful skill but it will take pretty considerable commitment so not recommended unless necessary for your goals.
you dont need to be able to read for high level jazz play, only shit ton of theory and a good ear
@@DangleSan this is true but the further you get along in theory the harder it becomes to understand/ explain without notation. Being able to read made jazz theory considerably easier for me and I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in it.
There's no question that BASIC theory is a must, or at least a big help, but there's such a thing as taking it way farther that any level that will actually do you any good!
@@JillandKevin I think Berkeley musicians are a great example of that, Even Tosin Abasi(who I think over does it on theory) made a joke on a Rick beatos podcast where someone brought up Berkely and Abasi chimed in "ahhh yes where creativity goes to die" I think a lot of guitar players are thinking through the music instead of flowing through it, even the ones who say that they're playing from feeling if your music sounds like a bunch of robot aliens arguimg in space you're thinking too much theory don't care what you say
@@DangleSan That sums it up pretty well. I was, however, mindblown at a jam session years ago. A gal spread out sheet music, and proceeded to READ an entire complicated fiddle solo. Turns out she was second chair violin with the San Francisco Symphony! HOWEVER, it was not HER solo!
Had I heard it without seeing the sheet on front of her, I would not have guessed though, but again, it was someone else's improvisation!
Sight reading divides into two challenges - reading rhythms and reading pitches. Both rhythms and pitches come in constantly changing sequences, so just like when you read words in a book, you read measure by measure, not note by note. Both rhythm and pitch comes in phrases, so you need to be able to see a measure's worth of notes and play them as a group, just like you read a few words at a time on a page. You can always sing rhythms on one note, so you don't need your guiltar for that.
one thing not mentioned here is how there's many thing you can do on guitar that don't really fit well on a staff, like bends and micro tonality, pick scrapes and muted notes , issues of phrasing like hammer ons pulloffs and upstroke downstroke stuff. I think the way the notation system has evolved (ie western classical) is great for communicating that style, but not blues (which a lot of electric guitar is rooted in) . TAB has been around for hundreds of years and was used for lute music back in the day, but it is very counterintuitive , its very hard to sight sing a melody written in TAB! So its no better really. Other musicians just have to be a little patient with guitarists thats all. On the other hand give a guitar player a chord sheet and most will strum through it fine, while a lot of classical players will struggle to name the notes of an Ab7#11😁
I think there are a few misconceptions here. The first one is the idea you are saying that you cannot communicate aspects that say, tablature might be able to, like bends, muted notes etc. This actually isn't true at all, you can absolutely show these things with ease with traditional notation. The difference is that many find tablature far easier since they don't have to think about the note they are playing, it's just a number they have to play and mostly without any indication as to its rhythmic value so the guitarist is forced to rely more on their ear and gut instinct.
Historically since around the Renaissance era, a form of tab did in fact exist for the lute, but the lutist was expected to actually understand what the numbers represented, and rhythmic durations were indicated. Early Music Sources, a brilliant CZcams channel, goes far more indepth about this.
The other issue with what you're saying is about pianists. Many shapes for chord types on the guitar are incredibly transferable. The same is not true for the piano. On the piano, many chords, especially 7ths and their extensions, require very specific fingerings, and some chords are far easier to play than others. Most pianists tend to be classically trained so they deal with fairly simple diatonic triads and 7th chords, and rarely do extensions come into play. In classical music, having a 9th is typically considered a non chord tone that has a tendency and is in the process of resolving to the tonic, and is rarely used for colour sake until the Romantic era. So for many pianists, there might not be much point in learning extensions that a jazz pianist might learn since they will be irrelevant to the type of music they are playing.
Is my last point a good one? I think every pianist should be able to play in multiple styles and being able to improvise should be something every musician can do. However, the reality for a classical player is that a) they have to be able to sight read a shit ton of music so sight reading takes precedence over improv, b) they have to be very technically brilliant to play harder repertoire, so technique drills take up a lot of time since they are expected to not make mistakes, c) they have to memorise a shit ton of repertoire, so tons of time goes into memorising very long pieces of music like piano sonatas and concertos, many lasting anywhere between 10-40 minutes a piece.
Hope that clarifies some things.
Pick scrapes can be notated, lots of scores, even older more traditional ones, will literally have a piece of text saying what to do if it can't be notated traditionally. Sometimes they may make an additional symbol and put before the start of the piece what it means.Muted notes can be expressed by using an X instead of a dot but keeping everything else the same, it's common in fact. Microtones exist on standard notation too, and you can notate bends and quater bends, this has been extremely common since it was first used for brass players in Jazz. For hammerons and pulloffs you can just use a legato line as guitarists generally call playing with one hand as guitar.
Upstrokes and downstrokes can't really be notated, but if it's a really fast line, you can use where the accents are and your best judgement to determine where they should be. For instance, an accent would most likely be played with a downpick and the others don't really matter as much, just alternate pick as much as you'd like.
@@Meatball996I have seen upstrokes and downstrokes notated. It's an arrow pointing up or down situated right next to the chord or note played.
@@scottwalthour558 thanks. So I guess everything can be notated then
Writing down music is for people who can't really play well. They only mimic other's music. MUSIC comes from the heart, not notes. Also, notes are mildly useful for piano players... guitar is WAY MORE expressive and written music can never capture this...
Great tip about constraining to one position.
Will definitely try that.
Thanks 𝄢
I think the big underlying reason is that it's just not how guitarists are usually taught to play in the beginning, unless you are specifically learning classical. A lot of us find ourselves wanting to work on reading when we get to music school after already having played (and learned) a certain way for many years. So we end up starting a new skill from scratch, in addition to also having to balance it with our other practice topics.
It's rare that I need to sight read something on the spot, but is very often beneficial to have at least some ability in this area so you can understand what is happening on the page. I still have a lot of improvement to do on my reading though!
I think you're absolutely right, Mats - it's not typically included in the earliest stages of guitar education. When I learned piano as a child, the way notes on the piano keyboard correspond with music notation was taught on day one!
Good descriptions, Ben. I meet with a friend each week and read classical guitar duets. That has helped my reading immensely. It's also gotten me out of the first position reading issue which is taking lessons, and reading from the first two Mel Bay books and then stopping without reading in the upper positions. Learning the fingerings from the five CAGED positions also helped a lot as I find many guitarists really don't know the entire fingerboard.
That's fantastic you get together with another guitarist to read! The 5 caged positions can help too, thanks for watching!
You can use the CAGED positions to more quickly identify where on the neck to play the written notes. Good for you! I'm not there myself. Good for you.
Great advices! Thanks for that! Another thing to mention: As a guitarist -> simply learn to play songs!!! Instead of noodling around all the time and focussing on techniques only!!! Why do we play an instrument? Because we should have the drive and wish to perform live infront of an audience and not in the basement only! However, people don't like to listen to technical excercises, they want to hear songs they know or at least they can remember after a concert. I think it is highly important to build up your repertoire rather than becoming the fastest and trickiest guitarist of all time. Anyway, I really love your content. You are for sure a great tutor and there are many things we guitarists can learn from you! Thanks for sharing! Cheers DimiZ
As a teen I studied classic from the guitar instructor at a University here on the west coast after his day he taught private lessons..I studied under him for 3 years in that time I became almost fluent in sight reading.. I was dedicated to that more than anything in my life.
It is the one skill that I lost after life took me a different direction that I have always regretted the most. It takes a lot of work to be able to sit down and sight read and play it as it's written like you have played it before, at least on classical guitar.
sight reading classical guitar in my expierience has been harder than reading just the single not melodies that you would find in like a parker omni book for example
#2 is tricky. Also, not only can we play in position across different strings, but we can also play the same line up a single string.
Also, the inconsistency in tuning does make the logic of the fretboard (and building ones relationship with seeing intervals) difficult to master.
Hi Ben, thanks for the beautiful video on sight reading. I made a new years resolution in 2023 to work on my reading every day again. For this i like to use the Charlie Parker Omni book. Thanks again, be well and happy reading!
Great discussion! I have often found tab to be harder for me to read than regular notation!
I have heard a few people say the same thing!
I much prefer written notes. It does help some when tab is available to check fingering on difficult parts.
Same here
Said no one. Never.
@@tweed0929😂 I find this easier to believe
I was recently recruited to play in the pit for a school production. The music required me to play parts that were either unison or harmonies to string parts. it took some real work on my part to transfer my reading which is "ok" to the fretboard. I plan on spending a lot more time working on this.
Most of the best and most revered guitarists in rock, blues and metal can’t read sheet music. I would bet that 99% of non classical guitarists don’t bother with sheet music. I teach guitar for a living and if I made my students learn the Hal Leonard method on day one, half would quit out of boredom. I save sight reading for much later in their guitar education.
That’s what happened to me when I started at 11 yrs old. I immediately tried to avoid my teacher who would come to our house to teach us 4 kids. Eventually I asked my brothers to teach me Jimi Hendrix and Metallica and what not. I can play my classical pieces no problem with form and stuff,but with sight reading, now I wish I paid more attention. Although I have to say at 11 sheet music IS incredibly boring.
I've been wanting to learn how to read music! That's a really cool guitar you're playing btw!
I play by ear, and am essentially self-taught. I read the fretboard, visualising shapes and patterns. While this is great for being able to jam in virtually any musical situation, my inability to read either sheet music or tab means that I could never work with a band where these were required. My usual method of learning and playing songs is to have lyric and chord sheets in front of me, reading them as I go. In a live situation, this can look quite convincing, so some people might think I'm actually reading sheet music! If I could have my time again, I'd learn to read music, because I'm pretty sure this would have made me a better player, and opened up more opportunities.
Thanks so much for sharing!
Learning to read tab takes all of ten minutes
@@Dawg93 Yes, but being bothered to learn tab (which I'm not) is the first part of the journey. It might have been more accurate to say that I can't read music, and I can't be bothered to read tab, even though I do understand it at a basic level. Another point about tab: when I _have_ used it to help learn songs, the tabs have usually been wrong, because they're written by well-meaning amateurs who've guessed when they couldn't understand a chord or phrase.
The chances of you joining a rock band that requires sight reading are zero. Almost all rock musicians learn by ear and can’t read music.
@@hankevans7890 Well, yes, that's in line with what I said in my original post; albeit using fewer words and going into less detail.
If you play classical you really need to know how to read. There's no way around it.
I agree!
If you are a working guitarist who plays all the time and makes your living playing music you need to be able read! Read well; Hear well!
If you're playing something you've never played before or not that good at live, ya. If you're just learning a song, memorizing one, or just playing along at home, tablature is fine. As long as you have the recording and use your ears along with looking at the tab.
Or jazz
Force yourself to go through the Mel Bay Modern Guitar Course. After mastering levels 1 to 7, your reading will be perfect.
Thanks for your suggestion, and thanks for watching!
Having been classically trained but working as a session guitarist for jazz and R&B artists, the best thing that came out of that was being able to sight read, being able to finger pick, and developing a good ear. Being able to sight read opens you up to a lot of work that would have been closed had I not been able to read.
Exactly the experience I had as well. Thanks so much for sharing!
Most interesting and inspiring ! Thank you!
Thanks so much for watching!
It’s Sisyphean. I work at it daily and the #1 thing that makes it hard is that honestly, it doesn’t really matter if I ever learn to read music or not! I’m a working. musician, but in the style of jazz that I play there is almost never a need for me to read. There’s ALWAYS a horn player there to play the written melody. (Honestly, I could probably fake my way through life not even knowing any melodies, but that would be lame). On the rare occasion when some little part does require me to read comes along, people present it to me apologetically, as if they know it’s going to be hard since I’m a guitarist. They are ready to give me all the time I need to work out a bar and a half of 8th notes. I’m like guys, I practice cold sight reading for 30 minutes a day! I might not read as well as you guys with valves and reeds, but I’m not helpless.
So here are a few observations from my journey.
1) it’s a discipline thing. It only develops from consistent repetition over long periods of time. Luckily, small chunks of time are enough. 20 minutes, even just once a day, if you can give total concentration that long. When your mind starts to wander, stop practicing sight reading because you are wasting time. You’ll know when you are getting stronger when it becomes no problem to practice sight reading for 30 minutes, etc. Eventually it will become pleasant and you will look forward to it, believe it or not! You’ll find it easy enough that you’ll want to do it more than you want to do more boring technique things you might be working on.
2) You will be well served by having a very clear understanding of the number of sharps and flats in each key, and knowing EXACTLY which position you choose for that particular key, and why.
3) Being able to read 8va is invaluable. It’s what you will wind up doing all the time in real world situations. So work it in to the routine.
4) Don’t worry about sight reading chord voicings. I’m sure there are some classical players out there who can do it, but remind yourself that that’s maybe one millionth of 1% of the world’s population. A good pianist will quickly handle a big gnarly poly chord in standard notation, because it lays out on the piano cleanly from left to right, with only one place to finger each note. But a guitar is not a piano, the complexities of choosing the right fret become even more intense when you are looking at a stack of intervals. Just leave this for people who want to devote their lives to renaissance lute music or something, and realize that even they are going to be stopping and working out where to finger certain chords and clusters. Lucky for us, jazz chord notation with letter names and dashes and symbols has become the defacto way for composers and bandleaders to communicate harmony to guitarists. Embrace this, and practice doing it. It’s easy and gives you the creative freedom to choose voicings.
5) Ben, what you say about confidence in your first point of this vid is so true. It’s a head game, and its all about trusting yourself (& knowing you will survive the gig even if you fumble a bit). “Nobody ever got hurt by an F major 7 chord” is an expression that helps me. But just like a basketball player on the free throw line at a high pressure moment, if you have practiced this skill enough times that it’s completely automatic you will be able to to relax and disengage from the internal monologue and just execute.
Cool lesson. Nobody talks about this stuff much! Thanks.
About number 4) Originally a lot of classical music was written with chord notation and a melody line and the musician was expected to fill in the gaps.
I've never got past simple etudes but I still practice reading for the challenge and satisfaction, persistence pays off...
Great discussion! - now I actually feel like I want to learn to read music!
So glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!
I've been trying to learn to read music for four decades. I've had piano lessons, guitar lessons, bass lessons. I never developed any speed in reading music. Tab is different. I can play something almost straight away. As you say I just need to work out the finger positions and I've got it. Having a good music ear helps. I think I may have a dyslexic eye problem with sight reading sheet music. I'm never going to get it and I've tried for so many years. Tab is the only answer for me.
Your video hits a sore spot with me. I’ve been playing the guitar since 1975 and in the 80s studied classical guitar to grade VIII. Right from the beginning I recognised the value of sight-reading. I think it’s a vital skill. Once you have a piece ‘as written’ you can then improvise on it if that's your thing and you can do it in real time. I also play keyboard but not as well as the guitar. Improvisation I find trivially easy.
Frustratingly, despite going on to gain a diploma in music theory, which I have no trouble in understanding, I still cannot read notation fluently, so it takes me months to learn anything. There seems to be some kind of cognitive deficit which stops any meaningful progress. Someone else has commented below about a similarity to the difficulty in performing basic arithmetic for some which I’m also troubled with. I’m inclined to agree,
I’ve asked a few highly competent musicians exactly ‘what’ they are doing when sight reading, but it seems immune to any kind of introspection in the same way as asking someone what they are doing when reading standard text, so they can never give a sensible answer. Once you can do it, it’s almost impossible to say ‘how’.
It could be something I’ll just never be able to do, but find most of the proposed solutions on CZcams or elsewhere to be pretty unhelpful even if well-intentioned. With respect, suggesting whizzing through Bach partitas illustrates the gap in understanding.
I learn by ear, the best way I can describe my attempts a sight reading years ago is that my ears shut my eyes off when the music starts. I even gave up on tab because after baby stepping a tune into my fingers I often found that I needed to unlearn mistakes in the tab which I could only here properly after I'd gotten up to speed. It should also be remembered that many sight readers would give their eye teeth to be able learn a tune by ear.
Have you tried working through a method like Hal Leonard or Bill Leavitt?
My biggest issue with learning sight reading is that I question myself so much (whether I played the right note). Thanks for the violin notation tips, I'll consider buying violin sheet music.
It’s also that you can mix and match different places to play the same note in a line. So you could play a line starting on your pinky and playing “below the root” or start on the same fret but with your index and play “above the root”
But it’s worse. A simple 1 2 3, can be played on 1 string with your index middle and pinky, or…
On three different strings using your fingers pinky then middle then index. So you have to figure out, in real time, where and how and which fingering will match your picking style etc.
I had the idea of sight reading Classical guitar live for 10-15 years, mostly trying to get past the fact that once I had mastered a piece I became tired of it. How nice I thought, to be able to open a book of sheet music and play my way through it. After many years of hard practice I just couldn't get past the fact that only the memorised pieces had any real expression, since the sight read pieces couldn't make it, for the simple reason I wasn't fast enough at reading, or at least the technicality was getting in the way. Fast forward to learning to read music on the piano for retirement - no such problem, the dream is coming true. The simplicity of reading the piano compared to the guitar has made everything so much easier. After all the piano really only has one simple pattern of keys which repeats all the way down the keyboard like you were playing just one guitar string! Those repeated notes on the guitar were a killer for me. NB I could read single line melodies with expression on a guitar, and still can, eg to a backing or simple duets - highly recommended and great fun. But reading the majority of classical pieces where the guitar plays chords and melody, for me, Guitar no, piano yes.
Thanks for sharing!
I've been recently reading through Pat Metheny's Warmup Exercises For Guitar and I find it excellent for developing switching positions on the fly, as he tends to play all over the fretboard and thus forcing you to adapt ASAP. Great stuff!
Great! Maybe if you keep practising, you'll sound like someone mimicking Pat's playing in about ten years... we can't wait.
That's a great book! I have it as well
That's not the point of practising nor the scope of the book @@kwimms
having studied classical guitar if I see middle C on the staff I usually go to the C on the 3rd fret of the A string not on the B string as you illustrated even though that may be the correct pitch. As far as tab goes, I use it as a supplement to standard notation as you suggest. I really should put effort into it, ty for the tips.
I remember a discussion about reading music, and there was a point that you encounter written language Everywhere and subconsciously your reading is trained all the time, however with music you have to take out your sheet music to train your reading. If written music was to be found everywhere our reading would be much better. Just a thought.
The whole issue of middle C being in five places on the guitar neck is something I usually point out when people think guitar is an easy instrument, not to mention the issue with sight reading.
Also, since guitar is such a malleable instrument, capable of being tuned in several different ways, that’s another reason why tab is useful.
When I was buying Guitar World on the regular, I used to take their guitar tabs and re-transcribe them because I was used to seeing the standard notation above the tab in my other tab books. I’m not the greatest sight reader at all, but I’m used to seeing standard notation. But growing up in the early punk rock 80s, I found myself having to learn certain bands’ songs by ear because there was no sheet music for Black Flag or Dead Kennedys, and later found myself having to learn songs for cover bands completely by ear (well, writing out chord sheets) for a combination of reasons.
If a guitarist doesn’t sight read, that’s not a dealbreaker for me. A deal breaker is when a musician doesn’t even know the names of the fucking chords he’s playing. I’ve seen this more often than not in recent years.
Great points here, thanks for sharing!
Great video, and it touches on many important subjects, but I think as a prerequisite to the things mentioned is knowing all the notes on the fretboard reasonably well. You don't need to be a virtuoso spelling out arpeggios on the spot, but you shouldn't be hunting and looking for notes either.
You can make your own method, or you can use an app. I like Fretboard Forever as it takes like 5 minutes a day to go through everything after the first week or so. But the first week is definitely slow and painful lol
In my boomer guitar world of the 1960s, the primary role models I heard about were Eric Clapton, Joe Walsh, Paul McCartney, and Phil Keaggy. They were all crystal clear that they Did Not Read. So it was not just a legend. It was a fact of “how the big kids in school” actually did what we wanted to do.
Of course, it can also be applied to other things to a certain extent.
From driving a car to skiing to more complex processes.
For me there is an essential question.
And I ask experienced notists because the others can't answer them.
So when a notist who can sight-read finally plays completely “freely” in a band context and has to react improvisingly to the smallest deviations of his musicians (also a form of perfection)
Is he still thinking about notation or not? Or does he then visualize the notation for the sound or chord in his mind's eye.
Or does he only have an overview of the key points?
Another question is the topic of pulling the tones, distorting the tones and general acrobatics that can still be expressed in notation. Because then he would have to think of a distorted notation image in his head at the same time in order not to say paint along.
That doesn't happen on the piano.
I learned to play classical guitar in college. We didn’t use tabs. Notation included fingerings and strings so you knew where to play the notes. It seems now most guitar music is tabbed, but with programs like Guitar Pro. You have a choice to have tablature, notation or both. I prefer notation because tabs don’t always have a defined rhythm. I like to learn by ear, but I need help with the more complex music.
The hardest part for me is reading music not arranged for guitar. Some voicings are impossible or not practical. Even complex music arranged for guitar can be hard to play in the correct positions when sight reading. I love tab, charts and using my ear! 🎸 you are a beast player btw. I think you’re one of the best players alive. I wish you continued success!
Great video to inspire me Ben. Beat subdivision is my kryptonite. What helps me is to listen to a recording and then transcribe it. I’ve found Musescore to be a great tool for notation and learning. Hopefully if I can discipline myself to transcribe a bit every day, it’ll rub off on me and help with my sight reading.
Beat subdivision is a great thing to be aware of when reading! Transcribing every day is a great idea!
Am a guitar player but just started learning sight reading on bass guitar. So bass clef. Hahah. The book is by Jeff Berlin. Thanks for this video. On point.
Great video, I am slowly learning to read after 33 years of playing guitar. My first real attempt to to read any kind of "non-tab" was when I studied Indian classical music (Sitar/Esraj) with Ali Akbar Khan. In North Indian Classical music, notation is slightly frowned upon, especially while performing, but slowly the tradition is changing.
I would say the number 1 reason that guitarists can't read is because it is rarely part of the learning process on guitar. Most guitar players commit songs to memory and learn primarily by ear or have it shown to them.
I only realize pretty late in my music career that sight reading is super important and actually quite a powerful creative tool.
Great observations, and that must have been an incredible experience studying Indian classical music!
As a pianist who plays some guitar, I think the biggest hurdle for guitarists is just lack of exposure to new sheet music.
I was once a subpar sight reader. Even though I spent hours every day staring at music, I was rarely reading something that I hadn't seen before.
This ties in with your 3rd point, because a lot of the reason I didn't read new music was how it reminded me of the shame of not being good at it.
It's easy to learn to read music, but sight reading even simple music skill takes years of practice, so it's okay to not be good at it.
Bach partitas might not be a the best option for beginning readers though. There's plenty of other free music on IMSLP to explore.
I'd sooner recommend reading 1 or 2 lines at a time from Bach's chorales, or maybe reading the melody line of Mozart's piano sonatas.
Great insight, and great suggestions! IMSLP is a great resource!
How long did it take you to learn how to walk? Maybe if you start now, you can learn to read music before your brain stops working entirely.
Accurate insights,superb English accent..not utterly American,neither British..couldn't pinpoint ur origins
Sounds like an american,RP ,highly educated scholar..kudos maestro!
Greetings from Havana.
Thanks so much for watching!
Thanks Ben!
Thanks so much for watching!
I really love that guitar!!
As a keyboard player I sometimes watch guitar tutorials on particular songs and find a lot of them where the guy plays slowly and says things like: "put your finger here" so I have to figure out the note by ear and counting half steps down the string hes on. Painful if you're not a guitar player, but a useful skill for keyboardists.
The difficulty is that with a given chord, there are both different locations on the neck and different fingerings for each note. As 5 or 6 note chords are common in scores and you only have 4 digits (unless you're a thumb over the top guy) so you don't have spare fingers. Which of these formations is the best depends on what comes after. The right fingering is critical since if you make the wrong choice it might stop your flow altogether. So thats a lot of processing. A piano is easier because there is no note position choice and with 10 digits, you have some redundacy to play with so suboptimal fingerings are not so critical. However this advantage on the piano allows music written for it to be more complex. So piano ends up being super challenging at advanced levels.
I was introduced to music notation at a young age, around 4-5 years old. Regardless of the instrument I was learning, I absolutely hated sight-reading. To avoid reading sheet music, I would aim to memorize as much of the piece as possible by ear, while my teacher played it for me.
I never understood the argument that sight-reading opens doors to music I wouldn't otherwise access. After all, we live in an era where virtually every piece of music, even the most obscure scores, are recorded.(Perhaps some musicologists might not agree on that😅). So, I entertained myself by transcribing increasingly complex music that interested me - jazz, classical, atonal, you name it.
Fast forward 50 years, and I found myself making a living by professionally transcribing music and crafting arrangements for all types of combos, bands and orchestras. I have a passion for transcribing music into standard notation, making it as accurate and beautifully readable as possible for every given style/genre. I also enjoy analyzing music scores. However, I still have a profound dislike for sight-reading. My brain just rebels when I'm faced with music to sight-read.
I ended up primarily doing MD for several projects, and the best part was that I didn't have to read anything. By writing everything, I knew every bit of music by heart. Am I the only one here with such a strange relation to this music reading issue?
Fantastic experience that you've shared here, thanks so much for taking the time to discuss this!
At one time, I was very good at sightreading on guitar, and no one else was at my University. I had to do a lot of work to achieve that skill, and it required constant practice. It did pay off, and opened up many opportunities, including teaching guitar at that University.
As with you, I love sightreading Bach, as it is not visually challenging, but is technically challenging, and musically very rewarding. The violin Partitas and Sonatas are perhaps the most useful. The Lute, and Cello Suites are also good.
I can read also read Lute tablature, but my guitar tablature reading sucks, as I don't do it very often. I think reading tablature is very helpful, particularly when starting off learning the guitar, as it removes the confusion of where on the neck to play the music.
It does take a lot work! I've never spent time with Lute tablature, I would like to.
@@beneunson One of the best Collections of Renaissance Lute Music, in tablature, is available online as a free downloadable PDF. Just do a search for "imslp dowland variety of lute lessons". The beginning of the book includes a Method on how to play the Lute that is absolutely brilliant, and can easily apply to the guitar.
I'm a pianist. Not sure how I ended up here, but this is solid musical advice, especially for orchestration.
Thanks for watching!
Quite a few years back,I went for a Job with a in house Band ( Holiday Camp) in the audition I did quite well on all Chord Chart sections but there were a few noted runs/licks which through me, after 3 or 4 songs, the MD ( Keyboard /Piano player) you're a good Guitarist but like so many Guitarists you don't read very well, I was mortified, not only because I wasn't going to get the regular Job income( good money) but felt I was half a musician, I can't say that I can still sight read that well after some years, but it spurred me on to do lots of reading and studying 🎶
Thanks for sharing!
For me it's rhythms, I struggle quite a bit to count rhythms in the moment. Just "feeling it" and practicing scales with a metronome got me to an intermediate stage on guitar. So Rhythm is something I'd never really had to think about, seeing as I naturally had good rhythm, until I decided I wanted to learn Jazz and would probably need to start sight-reading.
Absolute gold 🎉👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Thanks for watching!
I have the same level as you, as long it's a regular time measure, quarter and eighth notes are no problem. Maybe I'm good at swing because it's easily recognizable on a music sheet, if written deliberately. Another way to improve your reading is to transcribe and write! I cover songs and transcribe every song I learn myself. In 30 minutes, you'll have staff memorized.
Thanks a lot for your videos.
I like to work with the Barry Galbraith Study’s, playing each staff line in all five positions from the CAGED, normally in the higher position you have to transpose the line one octave up.
Talking about books the one I discover with a very special approach to sight reading, is from the book by Tommy Tedesco. There are some exercises to read only in several pairs of strings, and I think this is a very clever idea.
Thanks Ben
Thanks Mário, I used a Barry Galbraith book for practicing reading chord voicings at one point - it was quite useful. I will have to check out the Tommy Tedesco book, thanks again!
An excellent video Ben.
In my teaching (mostly of beginners), I’ve started combining tab with note values, rests etc. I put in the number and add the tails, dots etc, beneath or above. It works rather well and I don’t understand why it isn’t done more often. Introducing standard notation risks putting off all but the most dedicated.
I played for several years before attempting to read/sight read. When eventually I started trying, it took a long time and a lot of effort. It was worth it for me.
Some personal and experiential observations:
Reading classical guitar style material is easier than rock, jazz and single note stuff.
Reading on other instruments (piano, violin) is far more straightforward.
Playing from notation (even of humdrum music) can be a relaxing, meditative activity.
One can achieve a certain competence in some aspects of reading, whilst still really struggling with others.
Accepting one’s overall academic ability, or lack of, is part of the process.
Reading at any level is better than not trying at all.
Music theory is a different aspect altogether.
Thanks so much for sharing your insight!
Its funny that you mentioned Violin pieces for reading cause when growing up my local library only had violin sheet music so thats what I used to learn to read
For musicians that learn to play an instrument in a school band, they read every note they play from day one. For guitarists, if they learn to read at all, it's something they learn in addition to their regular guitar playing. It's like speaking your native language verses speaking a foreign language.
Great point!
great video
Thanks for watching!
I believe is a matter of constant use. When in back in college I learned to sight read in months. 3 to 6. However I cannot do it now because I dont use it. A flutist and a violinist use it every time because they mostly play in symphonic orchestras. Also composers uses it too.
@0:03-0:06 was one of the most beautiful licks I've ever heard 💖
So glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!
#2 is probably the most crucial. As a classical guitarist, I’m constantly reading new music. Because lots of musical patterns come up all the time, sight reading a lot of music reinforces how the left hand fingering goes. So, even though there’s lots of ‘possible’ solutions, I’ve engrained what the most probable solution is.
It doesn’t fix the problem, and really complicated counterpoint throws a wrench in it a bit, but I can sight read most classical pieces at sight now - even pretty hard stuff.
Thanks so much for sharing your insight!
if i could read music as quickly as i read words, what a miracle that would be for my literacy; if i could play the piano keyboard as quickly as i can touch type on a computer keyboard, what a load off that would be, and ditto for guitar; i agree with all your comments and advices; thanks so much for taking the time to read the mind of the guitarist wanting to grow in musical literacy; if you happen to know of a software program on line that can integrate sight reading to the fretboard and or piano keyboard i would be sooo grateful if you would pass it on
I need bigger goals, not only to be able to read. Sadly i dont have one, my dream to be a professional musician also pretty much impossible, i have to realize as im getting older im just playing guitar for fun. Even though i want to be able to read. There are many factors, including how to mixed guitar technique like using tremolo, bending, legato, and many more. Just too complex. And also having adhd made it more difficult for me. Good explained by your video, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching, and best of luck on your musical journey!
I can read the treble staff for singing or piano, but I'm learning to play the violin and that is a whole other story. Learning where the notes are on the fingerboard of a violin is different.
First time I have watched one of your videos.
Thanks for watching!
Maravilloso video, un truco que uso para leer solfeo sería detectar la nota más alta y basarme en eso para buscar la posición más adecuada en el mástil de la guitarra 🎸 un saludo desde España
Yes, for guitarist scores don't have a one way to playing; hence this one the the same scores writing can be play on guitar neck on harder / easier manner , can be playing in differnt sound's color etc... Using scores on guitar is more challange compare to many others instruments. But the most challange issue in this subject is rythm interpretation... We must remember that in the scores there is not only sound's writing, but also the rythm... Try to play any piece of music without heard it before - you will know what I'm talking about.
I want to learn a violin next so Ill have to learn sheet music. This video is helpful
Thanks for watching!
I play more bass but I think this applies to guitar just as well: see where the music is going, you know that if the music calls for a scale run to the upper register, that you wouldn't play the beginning of it in say open position only to then skip 12 frets to the rest of the neck. On bass it's easier to make that call but I think it applies
Thanks for sharing this!
I recommend thinking numbers: Key C: Ab=b6, F#=#4, etc..
Great suggestion!
Quick tip: if you are familiar with the fingerings of the major scale it will be no problem to read parts with many accidentals: if you know the key it is in it's just as easy to play in C# (7 sharps) as it is to read in C (no accidentals). That's the BIG advantage of the guitar as opposed to piano! All normal western music is based on scales, so know your scale fingerings in and out and you're already half way there. What about minor scales then? They are just modes of the major scale so all fingering patterns will be the same, only the root will change (for example: a minor = Cmajor).
Thanks for sharing!
When one learns to read and use their instrument well, one can read sheet music and mentally play before actually touching the guitar. When I took up classical guitar I immediately learnt with theory and sight reading. Never regretted it. One must also realize there is a difference between reading music and sight reading. Those who read music and play can memorize pieces and have the sheet music in front for security or to reduce memory block. But most of the time after memorization one is not looking anymore at every note but just the visual patterns and muscle memory jumps in.
I used tab for classical to start but switched to reading music. Standard notation has more information and tells you where to play on fretboard frequently. I’m not a sight reader, but I’ve gotten better at reading through and getting fingering fairly quickly. It’s like any skill-you have to work at it. My limitations technically slow me down more than reading.
Thanks so much for sharing!
Back when I was a kid learned by site reading. As I branched away and played on my own and in garage bands broke away and started playing chords. Found sheet music was inadequate in terms of guitar leads and stopped reading. Pay bu ear know
Been playing over 50 years.
I never took the time to learn to read well. My reading was pretty basic, then I joined a local community jazz big band. Boy did I have to learn to read! The main difficulty I had was not with note value and where to play but with reading time, big band swing has some challenging phrases time wise.
I learned a lot about reading playing in big bands as well!
I play in the pit for community theaters. Lots of gigs over the years. It opened doors for me and introduced me to some of my best friends. Entirely due to being able to read. Not even sight-read. You get to study the score before ever showing up.
That's fantastic! Thanks for sharing
The biggest reason is: guitarists usually don't have to be able to read music. For the most part, a musician in a pop-rock band can get away with being able to follow a chord chart, and many don't even need that. Session musicians may need to read music, but a more valuable skill is being able to come up with a part on your own (as well as developing a good tone). Jazz and classical musicians on any instrument need to be able to read music, of course. But for your general folk, pop, or rock musician, reading music is mostly unnecessary.
That Tone!
I can sight read up to a point. There are things that slow me down: a lot of accidentals in a line, written chords(especially if they’re in a different key like I’m playing in an easy key say Bb and suddenly there’s a written F# maj7 add #13 or something weird like that), difficult rhythms, 32nd notes.
Fingerings on guitar can make sight reading difficult, too, especially at any medium to fast tempo. That was a bit of a problem when I was studying piano, also. I had Bach’s Well Tempered Clavier with fingerings. My teacher didn’t like that copy and had me get a copy that was more highly regarded. There were no fingerings. Trying to read a 3 or 4 part fugue with no fingerings was actually harder than anything I’ve run into on guitar.
I bet that would be difficult! Thanks so much for sharing your insight!
I started out on a coronet in the fourth grade. Within a week of learning how to blow through the mouthpiece and play with the valves I learned what the cornet could do. I went to lessons at the elementary school where several of us were learning to play the cornet at the same time. My problem was that, the moment I heard the music piece played correctly, I already knew how to play it. And so the sheet music meant nothing to me. I played the coronet for 2 years in the school band. I played in the school concerts and knew my parts, I even performed solos at assemblies with the sheet music in front of me which I actually ignored. There were times when my music teacher suspected what I was doing, but he never knew for sure and I never confessed.
In high school I switched to the saxophone. The same thing happened. As soon as I became familiar with the saxophone and knew what I was supposed to play, I could simply play it by ear. I played the saxophone for another year in the high school concert band but never learned how to read music. The best I could do was every good boy does fine and FACE and wait until I heard someone else play it correctly. That was when I switched to the guitar. Everything I played on guitar I played by ear.
When I was in high school, my sister started taking piano lessons. My parents bought a piano, and I could hear my sister with her teacher struggling with her lessons. I got into the bad habit of after my sister was done practicing her lessons, I would then go to the piano and play her music lessons without any of the sheet music, all without practicing. It’s so discouraged my sister that my parents forbad me to touch the piano. After a few years, my sister quit the piano, and my parents allowed me to play the piano. So the first thing I taught myself to play was Bridge over Troubled Waters.
I am now 72 and retired. I’ve worked as a recording session musician and a producer. I also taught sound engineering at a local college for 15 years. There were several times when I had to write out the music I was producing for various other musicians. So I bought Finale and kept it up to date. At first I was doing a lot of the every good boy does fine thing. I also had to tap a pencil on the table to decide what value of note I needed. It took me quite a while to write out the music. But I finally got to where I could write out the sheet music and other musicians could read it and play exactly what I intended. With MIDI it was even easier for me to play my MIDI controller to the click track and then just print the resulting staff view. Today I can write the sheet music I need to, but I still cannot read it and play guitar without all kinds of stoping and thinking. I bought a few scores for classical guitar. And it was still the same problem. As soon as I knew what I was supposed to play, I just played it. So at 72, I have decided it is not worth trying to learn to read sheet music. And in case you were wondering I am no faster trying to read TAB either. I use it just to help with difficult passages like learning Cliffs of Dover, but once I learn the piece, I just play it from memory. Seeing the sheet music can help me with the rhythm, but I just ignore where the notes are on the staff.
Fantastic insight, thanks for sharing!
The problem with guitar is not only that it has 6 strings (each being able to produce 20-24 pitches, with lots of overlap), but also the fact that guitar is a polyphonic instrument, played polyphonically a lot of the time. Figuring out single note lines from sheet music on guitar might not be too difficult, but doing that for 6 strings at the same time (playing polyphonic lines, that is) is what turns into a nightmare.
Many instruments don’t have this issue. If we take something like the clarinet or the human voice, for example, it can only play monophonically, one note at a time. That makes it fairly easy to sight read if you’re practiced enough. I believe orchestral strings don’t have this issue either. They can play chords but most of the time they don’t. And on instruments like piano/keyboards or harp, they are played polyphonically a lot of the time, but unlike the guitar, every pitch can br played in exactly one place.
Also, there’s the whole world of alternative guitar tunings. Where basically all of your sheet music knowledge goes out the window. The instruments i mentioned above obviously don’t have this issue
Great points! Thanks for watching
I got flashbacks to college when you said “Bach’s double in Bm” i had that one for a jury
I've been playing guitar much longer than piano but I read much better on piano anyway. However, just reading more music at all has still improved my reading on guitar. What helped me was isolating each step involved in reading, namely, identifying the pitch, interpreting the rhythm, understanding the note in context of the key/harmony, and finally locating the note on the instrument. The first three applies to all music, so focus on each of those individually to the point where it is near instantaneous, then let your brain fit it all together. It will feel far less confusing that way.
Also interval shapes, as well as seeing the silhouette of the highest and lowest notes of a passage, which will give you a rough idea of where to position your playing for a given passage. I also noticed that very good readers are already reading the next measure before they are done playing the preceding measure.
Thanks so much for sharing!
While i share your logic about this as a guitarist myself, i've often wondered why it is string players(violin, cello, etc.) don't seem to share our anxieties and frustrations about this? Are we just inferior as musicians?? I think some of it can be attributed to how we learn the intrument from the time we first pick it up to study. That "rock star" mentallity i think contributes to this to some extent. Also, the guitar typically is made to "look" so easy to play. When we all know it simply isn't. Perhaps a lack of a work ethic to be committed to mastering reading notation contributes as well. And while i can "read" big band charts, my site reading pales by comparison to that of any good horn players. Just some random thoughts here. Thanks for listening.
Good question! I'll have to ask some violinists/cellists... would be interesting to know
@@beneunson Yes! I would be very interested to hear their take on this as well. Thanks !!
I think it's just practice and habits. I'm a cellist and from the day I've started to learn the instrument I also learned to read sheet music. Of course it began with empty strings, but I had the sheet music in front of me. For cello there simply isn't any alternative. For guitar you can either use tabs, or chord symbols if you just want to sing some songs. I've never seen a beginner on the guitar who uses classical notation. Also: Classical string instruments only have 4 strings. I think this helps a lot (although there surely are a lot of gambists out there who seem to manage it).
As a pianist as saxophonist I feel bad for making fun of guitarists for being bad readers. The different tambre of one line in different places on the neck is amazing
The requirement to transpose most music from the treble clef to the guitar which covers the bass and treble clefs is something I find frustrating. I use the guitar to learn the notes for the tenor part in church choir and found that a note mapping for a bass guitar, which is written one octave high, was useful to learn the notes on the fret board. The sliding guitar ruler also helped to find the best “neighborhood” to play the tenor part.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your support!
I noticed when playing guitar with a friend that when he and I were reading, he played an octave higher than what was written. (Similar to your point Problem #2 but also involving the ear) The thing about Problem#3 (tab) is that it can often be helpful to encode which neck position to use (fingering), but sometimes (often) I find transcriptions have crazy fingerings that are unlikely the original artist used. So it's no bible.
Unless they're graduates from music school. In music school you HAVE TO learn to read, no matter your instrument. And that is one edge that schooled musicians have over self taught.
If you went to music school and didn't learn to read, they failed you.
you have to know all the notes on the fretboard which is way harder than on other instruments. and then the same note at the same pitch can be played in many positions
also, before you say but its hard to know all the notes on the violin or trumpet etc, but those instruments are traditionally taught with sheet music so you grow up learning that, but guitar is taught more casually. also when u learn scales and chord, you only learn one shape and move it up and down so u don't actually learn the names of notes, just the root, but for piano example, you have to know which notes you are required to play and where they are
When I did my classical guitar grades, hated the reading. Then switched to lutes, which were ORIGINALLY published in different styles of tab. LOVED it. Not just easier, but you could read off how Dowland and Weiss FINGERED their own stuff - so unlike Grade exam. pieces
G'day Ben,
The answer to your question is yes, guitarists should read sheet music. The main problem with guitar tablature is that it doesn't include timing or rests, which is what changes notes into a melody. I learned to read sheet music at guitar lessons that I took in 1985. I had to stop taking those lessons in 1988, and have lost the skill of reading notation. Now, I want to take music lessons again, and regain that skill.
I think that you failed to mention that whilst a note might be played in many different positions on a guitar, the tone of that note changes with those positions.
Another example of note positions on guitars arises due to the guitar's tuning. My music teacher transcribed Romeo & Juliet (by Dire Straits) for 1 of my lessons, but he transcribed it in Standard C tuning. I only learned last year that Mark Knopfler wrote the song in Open E tuning, with a capo at the 3rd fret. I've been relearning the song recently, & have had to translate my initial transcription to different positions, as well as new chord positions.
Finally, when I learned music, my teacher spent the 1st part of my lesson writing out the notation. At that time, the programs and printers to do that job were prohibitively expensive. You can get programs to write sheet music today, but they are still expensive, with an average cost of about $200. For a beginner, that's the cost of a new guitar. That makes tablature popular, because it's free, and easy to use.
Thanks for an interesting video.
Andrew
Thanks Andrew, some great points here. You're absolutely right - the location of where you play a certain note changes the tone completely, and will certainly influence where you play (or read) on the guitar neck. Thanks for sharing your insight, and thanks for watching!
One thing I see a lot is when a capo is involved. Where it can get extremely tricky. For example they'll say capo at the 2nd fret. But all the notes are written still written as if we have not added the capo. So the note B will be written but they want the pitch C#. Its written as how many frets you should move up from the nut.
Great point! Thanks for watching!
This is absolutely true. I started watching this video, and as soon as I looked to the tab with musical notation, a fear crawled up my spine and I stopped to change to your "unlock the fretboard forever" video.
Just curious.. if the guitar sounds one octave lower than the notated pitches, why not use the bass clef and show the notes as the correct pitches? I’ve heard about the grand staff, why not use that and not deal with as many upper ledger lines?
Hey Ben this was a cool video, your third point was a valid one that I agree with but I don't actually use tabs myself, I feel I have because to reliant on my ears, though I can really music just fine I just can't sight read I real time nearly at all unless my colleagues at school. I don't know if this is more of a unique but I don't think it is.
I also have dyslexia which I've discovered definitely could contribute to my inability to sight read in real time. I get confused very easily as to where I am and because it's all dots on a page.
Thank you so much for sharing!
Yes I have had the issue on my gig last night
Thanks for sharing! It happens to all of us at some point 😀