Tension is tension. If they were pulling with either safe chained to a steel bridge, the tension is the same along the entire cable -- from the bridge -- through the safes -- to the tractor.
Here's my comment. I have a brand new Fort Knox and it is my second one I have purchased. IF a burglar shows up to brake in to my house and safe with an excavator, then I am pretty sure the burglar is going to win. And I know this so called test is to show how strong Champion makes their safe doors and frames. Good for them. I think it is a good thing for the industry as a whole should strive to make ever more secure yet affordable safes. But as to some of the comments below pointing out, Champion's pull tests were skewed in Champion's favor. Odd.......some dishonesty in advertising ??? However I am pretty confident in my Fort Knox. It sure is a beauty.
Fort Knox is a step up in quality and price point. As to this test. Liberty knows about it so why don't *they* repeat the test? Maybe they know they'd fail? But then a champion probably would stand up to a 1000lbs block of concrete from 30 ft so there you go.
Is there a reason in all the videos, you don't seem to put Champion on what looks to be the "pull" side but instead always have it on the static (anchored) side?
ever notice how on all the tests they make, the bottom of the competitors safe is the first to give? Newtons 3rd law states that the vehicle pulling is receiving the same force as the safe that it is pulling, the champion safe is only receiving the force that the other safe is imposing meaning that the safe on the dynamic side is not only receiving force from the vehicle but also from the anchored safe.... It also doesn't help that they are putting the bulk of the stress on the bottom tie point on the dynamic side.... Come on now..
I personally own this triumph 25 safe & I'm personally happy with it hands down!Hope to see champion safe co. Put their triumph 25 on the pull side to show how much it truly with stand! Then hopefully it will put everyone's doubts about their quality with triumph safes! Hey champion safe co. are you up for a 3rd challenge of tests to shut everyone? up?
Here's the the deal. For the amount of money to be made or lost on sales. If there was anything at all to the pull side vs anchored side the competition would be all over it. Not only with videos but possibly lawyers as well. Just a bunch of butt hurt fan boys. And for the record I don't own any of these safes so I have no dog in this fight.
It's all about the steel thickness and grade of steel. My guess Liberty uses a 1008 grade steel or lower carbon steel and Champion uses a higher carbon 1018 sheet steel. The 1018 steel contains more than double the carbon than 1008 contains and is much harder to bend. 1008 is softer and more malleable a property necessary since liberty 12-gauge and 11-gauge safes are formed from one piece of sheet steel using high capacity forming machines which would not be able to form a safe body out of 1018 which is an industry standard. A 1022 type steel would be even better for safe construction with sheet metal but more difficult).1018 can be bent into a box using a brake press but not formed like Liberty boxes are. It's why I believe Liberty had to go to Military style bars. Remember that a system is only as strong as it's weakest link. Based on my observations, the bolts did not fail. It was the steel used to make the safe body and door which buckled. The new military like make more contact against the casement and spread the force across a greater area. In the Champion safes, it's likely that their bolts maybe their weak link since they are using a tougher steel to construct safes and reinforcing their door edge. Champion doors benefited from this test because the bolt used to anchor to bulldozers kept both inner and outer door steel from separating at their welds. Champions achilles heel is their door construction because they use to many welds to join many pieces of steel. So Champion uses better steel and their safe bodies are some of the best constructed. BTW 1018 is much harder to cut with a saw than 1008. One cannot cut 1018 with a simple carbide saw blade. Likewise 1008 steel holds up better in explosions because it gives. It's partly why Liberty likes to explode their safes. If you look at this video closely you could see that the Franklin door bowed and the casement pulled out so there is nowhere for bolts to hold on to and eventually slip out. I own an 2017 11-gauge Franklin Liberty safe which I purchased second hand. When I measured the casement edge it was less than .120 inches which is 11-gauge. It measured .116 with the paint. I first thought that the steel was 20-percent thinner but what I think is happening is, as the steel is bent and rolled by the forming machine the steel experiences some elongation and thinning at a critical area the casement edge; where door bolts lock behind. IMO, Overall Champion is better in their construction methods but usually cost more money. Liberty is about volume if they switched to a 1018 steel they could not form safes using the current roll forming machines. They would have to resort to traditional steel bending techniques and their volumes would drop significantly and prices would be much higher. For the money Liberty is a nice safe as well. I wrote this reply more to educate than critic and to force people to ask better questions about what they buy and for manufacturers to be more upfront about materials and methods used, similar to stating ingredients in boxed foods.
Its no question that the Champion safe line blows the doors off Liberty and I didn't need the video to determine that. I've owned a liberty I now own a champion the difference in quality isn't even close. A close inspection of each and the choice is pretty clear. That said anyone trying to get into my safe probably ain't gonna have a tractor with them and even if they did the anchors in the concrete would break loose before the door ever would. Most thieves know better than to try to get through the door, they are gonna try to cut it open from the side.
Honestly people calling this fake are just people who are fanboys of liberty and any other safe company, yes this test is a little unfair, champion is going to fail under the same circumstances of liberty and so on. I dont have either of these company's safes but I will tell you champions are more well built then liberty's and that's the reality of it at least at least in the $1000 to $2500. I was able to take my knee to a liberty and flex the door because the metal is so thin on the door, they just fold on the corners to make it look like its a thick door but it's not and the majority of it is fire wall insulation inside, with champions in that price range they have a solid 1/4 steel plate as the door (have fun prying that open) liberty only offered that when you get to the $3000 range. I used to think liberty safes were all amazing until I got to reading about them and actually playing with them a bit then I realized they were not worth shit until you spend $3000. Champions really are worth the money and they are a little cheaper in price then liberty and you can get a better fire rating for cheaper also. If you cant afford a graffunder safe then buy a champion, that's just my opinion
Same here. Liberty this liberty that. I got to looking at them in the stores. You mine as well by a Stack-on safe and save the money. Unless you want to spend several $k. And if that's the case you are better off spending a little more for an altogether better brand.
Unfair comparisons.Let me tell you why. If you notice, the point of failure on every safe which was on the "pulling side" was on the bottom. This was because as the backhoe pulled with its arm, the angle slightly changed to an upward pull causing more pressure on the bottom edges and as a result failure. The angles never changed for the anchored Champion safe; they were even across the door. Care the challenge my theory Champion? Put a strain gauge on both sides, and have the Champion on the pulling side then let's look at the results. Also, I believe those Liberty Safes use a locking plate system not round bars, so these must be the old designs.
Lmfao.. again static vs dynamic lol.. 3-1 advantage from the start.. this is high school physics.. all things equal the pulled safe receives a 3-1 deficit vs. the anchor safe.. as these are doors that pivot and they are on the same side but opposing directions.. the anchor or opposing side receives yet another advantage.. the door being pulled fulcrums off it’s hinged side.. which then pulls on its opposite back which then pulls off then opposing pull side.. in short.. if one Safe opened opposite of the other.. (one left hand one right hand) when placed back to back the one being pulled would have a 2-1 advantage. As they are both Rh doors facing opposite that’s a 3-1 advantage of basic fulcrum points. This is before calculating dynamic vs static loads.. end result the safe being pulled (dynamic/liberty) is receiving roughly 10x the physical force of the anchor (static/champion) safe
I think you failed physics. But more generally, yes, the Champion door receives a bit less because it benefits from frictional losses. I.e., if I need a force of 500lbs to move one safe, and 1000 lbs to move two safes, the other safe door receives a force of 1000lbs before the champion door sees anything, but after that it’ll correspond pretty linearly. Doing it in reverse would clearly prove the Champion is stronger as this only proves that the champion = other safe less frictional losses, i.e., proves nothing.
The force applied to the safes will be equal. Based on the video provided, I can't tell if one safe has an inherent advantage over the other based on the angle/direction of the tensile force. It appears to be evenly applied to both safes. Either way, it looks like Champion safes are at least as good as the best safes out there, and probably better. Wish I would have seen these videos earlier. I'll be sure to recommend these to friends though. Thanks for the destructive testing!
Its not equal. The dynamic load side is being pulled up from the bottom edge, hence all of the failures from the bottom first. Just pause the video after the door fails and see how high the chain is in relation to the door anchors.
Test is a sham. Why dont you put two champion safes back to back, run a few tests like that and let me know how many times the static side fails... Better yet, rerun all the tests and give champion the dynamic side. If I were those competitors, I would sue Champion for defamation and false advertisement.
If a thief has to bring a bulldozer to open your safe you're definitely doing something right.
Put the scale on both sides.
Tension is tension. If they were pulling with either safe chained to a steel bridge, the tension is the same along the entire cable -- from the bridge -- through the safes -- to the tractor.
So why is the Champion Safes always on the bulldozer (anchor) side of these tests? Let's see one with the Champion on the crane (pulling) side.
All I have to say is American security BFX or BF2
Here's my comment. I have a brand new Fort Knox and it is my second one I have purchased. IF a burglar shows up to brake in to my house and safe with an excavator, then I am pretty sure the burglar is going to win. And I know this so called test is to show how strong Champion makes their safe doors and frames. Good for them. I think it is a good thing for the industry as a whole should strive to make ever more secure yet affordable safes. But as to some of the comments below pointing out, Champion's pull tests were skewed in Champion's favor. Odd.......some dishonesty in advertising ??? However I am pretty confident in my Fort Knox. It sure is a beauty.
Fort Knox is a step up in quality and price point.
As to this test. Liberty knows about it so why don't *they* repeat the test? Maybe they know they'd fail? But then a champion probably would stand up to a 1000lbs block of concrete from 30 ft so there you go.
Is there a reason in all the videos, you don't seem to put Champion on what looks to be the "pull" side but instead always have it on the static (anchored) side?
I don't think it would make any difference which side either safe was placed. Physics is physics-see Newton's 3rd Law.
ever notice how on all the tests they make, the bottom of the competitors safe is the first to give? Newtons 3rd law states that the vehicle pulling is receiving the same force as the safe that it is pulling, the champion safe is only receiving the force that the other safe is imposing meaning that the safe on the dynamic side is not only receiving force from the vehicle but also from the anchored safe.... It also doesn't help that they are putting the bulk of the stress on the bottom tie point on the dynamic side.... Come on now..
There is no static side. Go back to school.
Bottom line if someone comes for your safe with a cat. You're screwed.
I personally own this triumph 25 safe & I'm personally happy with it hands down!Hope to see champion safe co. Put their triumph 25 on the pull side to show how much it truly with stand! Then hopefully it will put everyone's doubts about their quality with triumph safes!
Hey champion safe co. are you up for a 3rd challenge of tests to shut everyone? up?
Here's the the deal. For the amount of money to be made or lost on sales. If there was anything at all to the pull side vs anchored side the competition would be all over it. Not only with videos but possibly lawyers as well.
Just a bunch of butt hurt fan boys.
And for the record I don't own any of these safes so I have no dog in this fight.
Waiting for the Fort Knox comparison.....
It's all about the steel thickness and grade of steel. My guess Liberty uses a 1008 grade steel or lower carbon steel and Champion uses a higher carbon 1018 sheet steel. The 1018 steel contains more than double the carbon than 1008 contains and is much harder to bend. 1008 is softer and more malleable a property necessary since liberty 12-gauge and 11-gauge safes are formed from one piece of sheet steel using high capacity forming machines which would not be able to form a safe body out of 1018 which is an industry standard. A 1022 type steel would be even better for safe construction with sheet metal but more difficult).1018 can be bent into a box using a brake press but not formed like Liberty boxes are. It's why I believe Liberty had to go to Military style bars. Remember that a system is only as strong as it's weakest link. Based on my observations, the bolts did not fail. It was the steel used to make the safe body and door which buckled. The new military like make more contact against the casement and spread the force across a greater area. In the Champion safes, it's likely that their bolts maybe their weak link since they are using a tougher steel to construct safes and reinforcing their door edge. Champion doors benefited from this test because the bolt used to anchor to bulldozers kept both inner and outer door steel from separating at their welds. Champions achilles heel is their door construction because they use to many welds to join many pieces of steel. So Champion uses better steel and their safe bodies are some of the best constructed.
BTW 1018 is much harder to cut with a saw than 1008. One cannot cut 1018 with a simple carbide saw blade. Likewise 1008 steel holds up better in explosions because it gives. It's partly why Liberty likes to explode their safes. If you look at this video closely you could see that the Franklin door bowed and the casement pulled out so there is nowhere for bolts to hold on to and eventually slip out. I own an 2017 11-gauge Franklin Liberty safe which I purchased second hand. When I measured the casement edge it was less than .120 inches which is 11-gauge. It measured .116 with the paint. I first thought that the steel was 20-percent thinner but what I think is happening is, as the steel is bent and rolled by the forming machine the steel experiences some elongation and thinning at a critical area the casement edge; where door bolts lock behind.
IMO, Overall Champion is better in their construction methods but usually cost more money. Liberty is about volume if they switched to a 1018 steel they could not form safes using the current roll forming machines. They would have to resort to traditional steel bending techniques and their volumes would drop significantly and prices would be much higher.
For the money Liberty is a nice safe as well. I wrote this reply more to educate than critic and to force people to ask better questions about what they buy and for manufacturers to be more upfront about materials and methods used, similar to stating ingredients in boxed foods.
You must work in marketing for champion
@@rustyshakelford9777 It works for me...
Its no question that the Champion safe line blows the doors off Liberty and I didn't need the video to determine that. I've owned a liberty I now own a champion the difference in quality isn't even close. A close inspection of each and the choice is pretty clear. That said anyone trying to get into my safe probably ain't gonna have a tractor with them and even if they did the anchors in the concrete would break loose before the door ever would. Most thieves know better than to try to get through the door, they are gonna try to cut it open from the side.
Yeah I hate it when thieves bring a bulldozer to rob people, just not fair.
I want to see you compare to a rhino metal works safe.
I have a liberty fat boy jr. after watching this video I’m starting to worry that my safe won’t hold up to a dozer.
Honestly people calling this fake are just people who are fanboys of liberty and any other safe company, yes this test is a little unfair, champion is going to fail under the same circumstances of liberty and so on. I dont have either of these company's safes but I will tell you champions are more well built then liberty's and that's the reality of it at least at least in the $1000 to $2500. I was able to take my knee to a liberty and flex the door because the metal is so thin on the door, they just fold on the corners to make it look like its a thick door but it's not and the majority of it is fire wall insulation inside, with champions in that price range they have a solid 1/4 steel plate as the door (have fun prying that open) liberty only offered that when you get to the $3000 range. I used to think liberty safes were all amazing until I got to reading about them and actually playing with them a bit then I realized they were not worth shit until you spend $3000. Champions really are worth the money and they are a little cheaper in price then liberty and you can get a better fire rating for cheaper also. If you cant afford a graffunder safe then buy a champion, that's just my opinion
Same here. Liberty this liberty that. I got to looking at them in the stores. You mine as well by a Stack-on safe and save the money. Unless you want to spend several $k. And if that's the case you are better off spending a little more for an altogether better brand.
Unfair comparisons.Let me tell you why. If you notice, the point of failure on every safe which was on the "pulling side" was on the bottom. This was because as the backhoe pulled with its arm, the angle slightly changed to an upward pull causing more pressure on the bottom edges and as a result failure. The angles never changed for the anchored Champion safe; they were even across the door. Care the challenge my theory Champion? Put a strain gauge on both sides, and have the Champion on the pulling side then let's look at the results. Also, I believe those Liberty Safes use a locking plate system not round bars, so these must be the old designs.
If what you say is true then why haven't the competitors repeated the tests, if for no other reason then to show champions deceptive marketing?
Lmfao.. again static vs dynamic lol.. 3-1 advantage from the start.. this is high school physics.. all things equal the pulled safe receives a 3-1 deficit vs. the anchor safe.. as these are doors that pivot and they are on the same side but opposing directions.. the anchor or opposing side receives yet another advantage.. the door being pulled fulcrums off it’s hinged side.. which then pulls on its opposite back which then pulls off then opposing pull side.. in short.. if one Safe opened opposite of the other.. (one left hand one right hand) when placed back to back the one being pulled would have a 2-1 advantage. As they are both Rh doors facing opposite that’s a 3-1 advantage of basic fulcrum points. This is before calculating dynamic vs static loads.. end result the safe being pulled (dynamic/liberty) is receiving roughly 10x the physical force of the anchor (static/champion) safe
I think you failed physics. But more generally, yes, the Champion door receives a bit less because it benefits from frictional losses. I.e., if I need a force of 500lbs to move one safe, and 1000 lbs to move two safes, the other safe door receives a force of 1000lbs before the champion door sees anything, but after that it’ll correspond pretty linearly. Doing it in reverse would clearly prove the Champion is stronger as this only proves that the champion = other safe less frictional losses, i.e., proves nothing.
Notice that the chain is pulling the bottom out first on every test. Putting more force on lower bolts
The force applied to the safes will be equal. Based on the video provided, I can't tell if one safe has an inherent advantage over the other based on the angle/direction of the tensile force. It appears to be evenly applied to both safes. Either way, it looks like Champion safes are at least as good as the best safes out there, and probably better. Wish I would have seen these videos earlier. I'll be sure to recommend these to friends though. Thanks for the destructive testing!
Yes. Just in case they bring a loader & hi hoe into your house.
Its not equal. The dynamic load side is being pulled up from the bottom edge, hence all of the failures from the bottom first. Just pause the video after the door fails and see how high the chain is in relation to the door anchors.
Test is a sham. Why dont you put two champion safes back to back, run a few tests like that and let me know how many times the static side fails... Better yet, rerun all the tests and give champion the dynamic side.
If I were those competitors, I would sue Champion for defamation and false advertisement.
but they don't? i'm sure liberty is aware of these videos.....
@@kdcustoms1272 The Liberty fan boys are making something out of nothing.
Bottom if someone comes to your house with a cat. Your safe is screwed.
Be sure to do other test. Great demonstration!