Ep 62 | When Your Pastor Hurts You | Redeeming Truth
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2021
- Redeeming Truth Podcast Episode 62 | When Your Pastor Hurts You
Pastors Jon, Kyle, and Tim discuss what to do when your pastor hurts you.
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Amen, i was embarrassed Infront of the church members. God help us.
Thank you so much for these videos. This one was needed after 5 years of sitting under pastoral abuse (I do not say this lightly) and 3 years of battling if we were wrong for leaving. Thank you for this ministry!
Man, I was struggling with the samething until God led me to Scriptures that strengthened me. 1 Pet 5:1-5, 1 Tim 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9, Mat 20: 20-28, 3rd john, Ezekiel 34th chapter, 1 john 4th chapter, and many more. That's when I knew I made the right decision. It took my wife longer to come out , but the Lord through Scripture cause her to walk away also. Praise God for faithful pastors who have been infused with the power of the Holy Spirit to do his work.
❤
Man church hurt is real. I remember when I was hirt. It took about 10 years to recover and I only talked to the pastor about it. And he just gave me this blank look like you can leave. Sad thing is many of these pastors don’t hold no accountability for there actions.
What happens when you go to the pastor and gaslight you and dont feel they are in the wrong for what they said or did to you and tell you that you are indeed the one in the wrong because if what they said or did hurt you, "then you have other convictions or other problems you need to lay at the Lords feet"? What happens when the pastor never acknowledges that they messed up or should have handled a situation differently and makes you out to be the wrong one. They always blame everyone else. If you ask them why so many people in leadership are stepping down and/or leaving the church its always because THEY have a different vision for the church or disagreed with what pastor wants for the church
Yes this is what happened to my family. He gaslights people and no one is above anyone for accountability. It’s an important part of growth.
He sounds like a covert demonic narcissist and may not even saved, considering accountability is necessary for salvation. You will know them by their fruits.
Omg I'm literally going through the exact same thing verbatim. Please pray for me
Still healing from abuse from IFB and a pastor that used and abused many who had resources he wanted. People, land, vehicles, homes, relationships, time we will never get back wasted listening to a false teacher, with no education. He had an out of control family, wife children and the rampant years of lies and sin covered up and excused should remove him from the church. Praise God he saved us from them and has shown us truth, hope and righteousness 🙏
To be honest I don't want to go through the pain of going through the hurt again in Church. So I try to not get close again.
When ya get burned bad enough you'll learn not to allow your hand to stay on the stove eye.
Excellent, teaching as usual. You guys are such a blessing.
Having left an abusive pastor (behind the scenes, behind your back), it took me ages to step out and trust that God had another home for me to go to, where I could be taught His word - not just 'Jesus loves you', 'you're amazing', etc.
Between my new church home and you gentle men, I'm now back on track and wanting to serve again. Also, I think I need to clarify that I never gave up on God, I just couldn't trust a human pastor. I hope this makes sense.
May God continue to bless the leadership of Redeemer Bible Church.
Unfortunately, there are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Run from them. ✝️🇺🇸
Pastors hurting pastors is also a big heartache. Experienced harsh treatment for no reason at all. As a pastor of 25 years, harsh words can up and bite even me. Healing takes time.
RBC, all three of you just wowed me. On this very serious matter, when Pastor said, Say something Wildy Heretical!... I giggled my pain away. I've huge church hurt, so much so I walked into WOF NAR teachers. Yuck. I need to forgive, and lay burden to Jesus. Phenomenal teaching, as ever. More life changing sermons... bravo Sirs 👏 🇬🇧✝️🇬🇧
When one hurts, we all hurt. I love Pastor Jon because he stands up, defends, and owns it. He has passion, yet also compassion. In this church, you are loved, you are cared for, prayed for, and held accountable, which is a good thing!
So many key points here by Jon: the pastor may have hurt you, but Jesus didn't. Healing and Hope are found in Christ, the real Answer. a blow-up is usually a confirmation of guilt. We can lip say all we want and deny but the sub-conscious, the emotion, the soul, it knows what the score is, and our reactions is an evident mirror sometimes that we may be out of alignment the stronger the reaction. What part of that emotion or energy is true? Well said Kyle = the church does not belong to your pastor, for man will always ruin perfection, a lot like a 5 yr old running thru the kitchen sees mother's iced cake on the table runs by and gets a gob of it w a cherry on their finger, not ruined but marred. There are also instances when one becomes too old to lead, like one becomes too old to drive.
We are only as sick as the secrets we keep
This was a very good teaching. Just finished dealing with an abusive pastor.
1- Spoke with him privately first. He didn't listen and basically said it was a personal attack on him.
2- We took it to the elders. We explained the issue. We explained how it conflicted with the scriptures. They attempted to address it with him. He scolded them harshly.
3- Then he went to our Apostle an said we were trying to steal his ministry and turn his people against him. Our Apostle said that it was not in our character to behave in that matter.
4- Finally we addressed the Pastor in front of the congregation.... Each time we have do so according to the word.
Most of the members know that this is how he operates. Many of them have been hurt and now are not fully committed. The come occasionally.
Meanwhile, The Pastor has refused the advice if his Bishop that he should step down for a while. He has also dismantled his Board if Directors. So he is acting without any accountability to anyone, Bishop, Board, or Congregation.
After we confronted him, we left. He is about to do a lot of damage to those people
What do you do when you do tell the pastor that he sinned but he does not repent? Do you leave the church or bringing it to the leadership?
My pastor is guilty of just brushing me off when I had biblical questions or wanted to share something with him. I am not the type to inundate people with texts or mails, so don’t get the idea that I was being too bothersome. I texted the guy maybe 4 times, and just felt so unimportant and bothersome to him. That hurts. You put your trust into a pastor because it is an important position. I know that people are sinful and imperfect, but pastors need to at least try harder to maintain the trust that they get from their sheep.
💯🎯
Well it's 1:30 am ~ yet well worth it, another solid word and teaching, thank you pastors for your faithfulness, willingness to tackle not so easy topics, and to teach us, rightly dividing the word of God, so we can apply it to our lives, as we share with others.
One last thing * famous last words to preachers and teachers ending a class or a sermon that oftentimes is not quite true, so much to unpack, share and learn together, right? So while it is dark and cold out, I take my wife to her part-time job - one eye open, PJ's and bathrobe, coffee mug, giving thanks as the sun is dawning and about to rise over the mountain view, praying that we do and be in God's will, and blessing upon her day to go well, which is a good thing for any husband to do daily. As I was driving I heard this story on the radio about 2 pastors, how one fell away and his marriage fell apart, yet the one kept in touch w him. The one asked him what possibly could have happened, he felt he knew him well for 15 yrs. This also brought me back to my CPLC (Chicanos Por La Causa) days when I headed a court-ordered 12 step meeting for DUI offenders in my social work/counseling days. He told his friend, I lost my wife, and my walk because I was an alcoholic. He was taken back, telling his friend, I never saw you ever w a drink in your hand. He said addicts hide things well. In telling him how he recovered and now has been sober for 15 years, he said he found something in the church basement, that he did not find in the Sunday morning meetings above. He said there he was accepted. I remember when we did meetings even when I taught in school (after the pledge of allegiance) we started the sessions in a moment of prayer or silent for those who did not wish to participate. That was radically against the rules of the day a decade or two back, wasn't politically correct, could have been fired at any point. I remember people would come up to me there in those CPLC days and say thank you for making me well and giving me hope, which I also similarly experienced from students later as a professor teaching Zumba, thank you my diabetes is in remission. Here you made me feel welcome, wanted, a part of the group, and I said, I cannot take credit for what God has done in your life. That is God loving you, giving you a 2nd chance, wanting you to be well, not robbed of what life could and should be the way He planned for you. That was the work of the Holy Spirit. You see when you apply discipline and godly principles hard work - the Holy Spirit may have brought me into your life to help you, but it is He that made you well. Always give God thanks and praise when He turns your course around anew from hurt and loss, even abuse, to good, for that is what God is, good, loving and merciful. The sad part here is so many feel "unworthy" or hide away from friends and go to a basement seeking to be accepted among strangers, as the fear of peer rejection is great. That makes John 3:16 ever more so powerful, whosoever will. God uses people, elders, pastors whatever your walk in life is to work out His will to work thru. So I will close with this, if you are hurting, if you are in need, if you suffered abuse, you are not alone. CALL UPON THE MEN OF THIS CHURCH, I WILL VOUCH FOR THEM - none is perfect, but they will do their best for your good with God helping them. A good church is not - "hey look at us, or look at me, or look at what I can do" but rather looking to the CROSS and saying LOOK @ HIM, JESUS, look what He can do!!!
"Good" biblically sound churches are very hard to find. You may have a church in mind that you would recommend but you can't stand behind all men in churches. There are many wolves. Many who want positions of power. Every word out of the mouth of a church leader must be weighed against Scripture. Many are corrupting the Church. I spent 3 decades in a church never expecting to experience what I eventually did...by men I thought I could trust. I took over three years to acknowledge the wrong...being in denial, blaming myself and hoping to help things change. Church hurt and abuse is real. Only problem is those experiencing it are more often not believed, silenced and simply must leave. Being in this position I can attest that it is extremely difficult to reenter another church and especially to start actively serving again. People in ministry who abuse are very good at hiding it and making those around them think they are godly and awesome. No one believes a lowly, stupid female sheep. I have come to recognize there are a whole lot of wounded, unprotected sheep that have no choice but to leave the church. Jesus searches for the one sheep but church leaders don't...they say good riddance.
@@shannonsundby5725
Well said. 💜
Thank you so much for this thoughtful discussion.
Great episode!
Some years ago my then minister called me some names that in essence were true but by his intentions were meant to be harmful. Very uncalled for. I did have to go for help because it was not just that situation, but how he was leading the church was in a sinful manner against God's word in a legal skism our church was dealing with.
Our church did hold him on a pedestal, God graciously removed that pedestal and when we were geared with another minister, the church had grown spiritually in God's word and I pray they put God first and not the man first.
In my opinion, when you are dealing with a minister who has wronged you, it is wise to seek council with alike minded believers. Not to gossip, but to pray on it, to seek council and advice on it and to how to deal with it.
Firstly, in my experience, ministers in defense try and back their actions upon theology and some even have twisted it to fit. The congregation is most cases are still learning theologically and can get caught up in debating with the pastor. I can't remember the verse or scripture, but are we not to seek council but first going to God in prayer? Not in a gossiping manner, but for help and guidance when seeking council? I believe so. We are all human regardless the title. My minister that I recently dealt with that may have twisted a meaning to fit his debate, he's a good minister, praying and then seeking council helped our relationship grow extremely.
I guess what I'm saying is it seems the seeking council should be the manner and not seeking approval.
I need this kind of pastor
Pastors and elders are still sinners saved by grace and have authority only under God in their own strength. When they will not measure by the Word of God but demean anyone who stands on the Word of God this is leadership abuse. As you said humility is an important quality for both pastors and the flock.
My family went through an abusive Pastoral leadership. We later learned his wife had a stroke 😢. We’re all human, show compassion for them, too!
Thank you so much for this. I appreciate you all.
This one should get some good airplay and many more reviews. Well, a good night's rest does wonders. One thing I have noticed is from the time I began going to sleep to waking up there have been 200 to 300 new views, praise the Lord, may this session help many.
Thank you for this video.
Thank you and God bless ,I had to make a difficult decision and leave a church I was in for 2 years , the pastor was manipulative and would use his pastoral powers to control others ,acting like a ladies man rather than a shepherd :/ very disturbing
Such great insight. Thank you!
In all fairness to the pastors (the real ones, not the wolves), they'd always only do what is right according to the Godly wisdom they have acquired over the years through study of God's word, continuous trainings and experiences. They may not be perfect but it's not an easy thing to pastor a church full of different people with different background and spirituality level, in addition to their own families. Let us just pray for them as they fight in the spiritual warfare as well. 🙏
In my experience we probably should lower our expectations of the role that a Pastor should have in our lives. They can never replace Jesus and they will make mistakes and sin just as much as the next person. You are the master of your destiny and your Pastor can only ever have a minimal role in your life - don't expect too much from them and you wont be disappopinted
VERY HELPFUL THANK YOU, BIBLE BELIEVERS IN NORTH DEVON UK GOD BLESS.
Kyle nails it when he says rightly - none of us are above accountability. As does Tim, this is not Monopoly where you start with $1,500 in the bank and get $200 each time you pass go. Jon also rightly says, when you put a man in the place of Jesus, you can expect nothing good to come from that. We are so accustomed to religion vs. relationship, where this error is very common. No man good as he intends to be will ever move the needle on the thermometer to show any measurable significance at all vs. Jesus. In fact, Pastor Darryl did say, when we compare that is breaking the 10th commandment, do not covet - when you do - you envy - the grass looks greener elsewhere, so a rule of thumb especially w each other, do not compare, we each have our calling, our gifts, our race to compete and complete. Yes, Jon is correct, there are 2 sides to every story, and we should always go directly to the person to settle any differences. There has never been healing in gossip, only division.
That is true (celebrity pastor) - for if we are constantly fed a diet of (no negative - only positive affirmation) and sweets it will show up, and as most visits to the drilling dentists, that's not a pretty visit. It is easy to allow oneself to get sucked into what seems right (Proverbs 14.12) only to find out in the end, it is a dead-end, and the Pac-Man is about ready to gobble you up. Jon brings it up rightly PASTORS need CHRIST, there is no higher plain. Yes, well said Pastor Tim, ask our wives, lol. That will be a long list of shortcomings of saved dissatisfactions.
So much truth in their comments.
So what can we do? Know somedays (we all may have a bad or off day). Think if pastors are hurting others, they are hurt themselves. Who heals the wounded who may have been hurt healing. Fortunately, the stewardship of the strong chords of leadership here does lift one another up, yet YOU CAN PRAY for your PASTORS. You can PRAY that God blesses and anoints the services and brings as many to whoever will. You can PRAY that ears would be opened and eyes would see. We all play a part in a winning team. We all may need to learn different roles and positions, yet all can participate, not just spectate, sign up to serve.
Scapegoating is real - passive aggression, and triangulation. Not enough edified pastors who must have education on many issues, and then also those who are not pastors who are put in leadership positions, and then the "ministry leader" has no oversight, and really is about voids in their lives, and control issues they are compensating for, then are abusive via control issues. Our church, people are appointed pastors, and have no requirement of being edified through actual coursework, but only Bible "knowledge"...and then that is abused to fit their own needs.
Ez. 34 is spot on..."I'm the leader," and it ends there...no team work, no unity, unbiblical paths followed - no confrontation allowed. Saying something is not Biblical, and then getting in trouble for it, that is a toxic mindset, none of us are above accountability, indeed. We can confront firmly, and lovingly, and do it to elevate the church, and congregants, not to hurt the leader or pastor, but thinking of the literal Body of Christ.
Have seen this in male and female pastors. Also the, "I have 40 years experience in said field," [not pastoral related, sometimes it is], yet no pastoral characteristic attributes. Broken trust for sure, especially if a leader has asked for input on something, then you get slammed for it...
Ive been on my church’s worship team for 5 years and we have a new worship leader now. Over the past year she’s hurt me over and over, I’ve finally confronted her and left the team. I spoke w the church leaders after they asked why I stepped down. I love my church so much but I am struggling staying bc she remains the worship leader and I’m trying to forgive her
Amen ~ (2-3 minutes in) God has given us a Bible, and (we should actually read it) >>> and this is what a pastor should look like young Timothy (I & II Tim.) >>> I do remember when chatting w one pastor who told it to me straight, Joe, I never would have signed up for that ... Hindsight is always 20-20 looking back, yet God wastes not even a painful learning experience to teach us a good lesson that may and can help others. (Well the day is moving on - and I will have to pick this up later on probably late night, but I wouldn't ever want to miss another exciting chapter, it's kind of ingrained in us kids of the 60s, tune in next week - same Bat-time, same Bat-channel, to find out what will become of ... in the conclusion of insert Super Hero here.) God bless your day fellas, and thanks for being faithful good stewards of the Word, we are blessed that you love Jesus, and in that love for us, we also learn to love others. Not a natural bend of the human ego.
Amen
When I hear sessions like these of people we are willing to trust be vulnerable, honest, integral, and genuine >>> it is very encouraging ~ in fact a therapeutic catharsis to hear and let sink in more than once often. As a Catholic boy in a Catholic school (very young) abuse, fear and domination are what they were good at. It wouldn't surprise me now if some of those crazy nuns or their relatives are members of congress or the senate. And we all know the aspirations of altar boys wanting to follow priests who were not allowed to wed, that led to well a wickedness that was far from holy, and often covered up by the higher-ups in that circle. That was BC days, before Christ.
My pastor abused Me in the pulpit under the guise of scripture for sayin prophecy is important and could we learn it. It was like he was throwing stones at me. People knewwhat he was doing and did nothing. I'm still in shock. Can't think what I said wrong. He's so charming and charismatic. I mistook it for love. He's arrogant and doesn't like different views or questions. I'm upset more because no one helped more put him right. It's a baptist church so I assumed it was a good one although my views are not amillennial and I believe Israel is god's chosen people. But I'm still Christian as they are
Beautiful message To God Be The Glory Hallelujah Amen 🙏
What do we do when going to the pastor and the elder board results in covering for the pastor who is abusing his position?
I assisted a pastor for many years, but then he said some hurtful things to me, causing me to resign.He apologized. However, trust was broken and he has done nothing further to mend the fences. We avoid each other, he doesn't respond to communications, acts like nothing is wrong and he's "all good", but his behaviour totally says otherwise. I don't know how to fix things. I don't know who to turn to for help. I feel like all the staff look at me with disdain so I don't know what has been said about me. I pray so much but don't know what to do and I feel so bad all the time and so rejected and fearful. I can't just leave because all my family are so involved there. Feeling stuck and hurt.
GREAT TOPIC this should get a lot of people with charged energy ~ a good opening point there is pruning (Iron sharpens Iron) and there are Abuse and Dismay to go along w Hurt for those who have suffered at the hands of men behind the robe or cloth. I pray this reaches many and brings healing to those who maybe gave up hope and harbored bitterness in their heart for a long time. It's not easy to come back sometimes, but our Master Jesus never does let us down. Jesus is merciful, and Jesus goes way beyond the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 70x7 chances for those who have suffered ills, He is the Great Physician. Nothing is too messed up or destroyed that He cannot fix and bring to new life. God has a plan a GREAT one for your life, that only you can accomplish.
I love Tim's answer - I talked more guys out of ministry, and may have to answer for that one ... yes, God's call is a heavy call on one's life, but we are not alone. He is always with us, and He never tells us to go do something they cannot do. So even if they look like, (no way Jose'sville in our judgment or estimate) God may confound what we pick to be the very one He would pick, grow and use. If God begins a good work, will He not complete it? If God plants a seed in one's heart, one's mind, one's soul, will that seed not grow and flourish? We cannot be the arbiters of who's who, we all have flaws, we all have sinned, we all have (and continue to) fall short ... of the glory of God.
What about when pastors first address you/your shortcomings/sins via sermons not coming to you directly??
This is called "fighting from the pulpit" and it is an abuse of authority. Private matters should be addressed privately. This creates an environment of gossip, negatively influencing other members. Shame on this lesder, God disapproves spiritual abuse!
Gotta love those passive-aggressive sermons 😂
This has happened to me and my family. We left our church 6 months ago because of the Preacher (I just can't call him a Pastor when he doesn't act like one). Church hurt is very real. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
The pastor is to be making disciples who make disciples according to 2 Timothy 2:2. Christian leaders must be people of character first. They must be people of character who make disciples who make disciples. Those who make disciples bear fruit that empowers others to make disciples which means they give away their power and control. Whenever a godly man does not know he will admit he doesn't know.
Tim brought up a good point w a broad range not often looked at. You can be self-assigned, self-appointed, not vetted, no fact check (lol), no screening, and the ignorance are in a way much like a husband saying see right here it says submit woman. That will go over real well now, won't it. I think it is safe to say there was good teaching back in the day, but also there was crazy teaching, and it was not stopped and the result of the church leadership then asleep at the wheel has mushroomed into the problems of today. In our grandparent's day 56% went regularly to church, today (and it is dwindling quickly among youths) only 11% attend in the USA - regularly, and 7% in Great Britain. So we go from the strict monastery like mausoleum churches that once knew the sacredness they held to without statues to instead of a Nicene Creed doctrine, it was well how do you feel about that, a Nike gospel. Kyle also brings a good point, the character must be qualified. Not the other way around, hire a character. Most of these who were then gifted churches w long-distance support, why would they leave that comfort, being not vetted or checked on much. How does an MLB player do it? Do they take the QO - qualifying offer or do they test their metal and see what experiences it may lead to. So most never do venture out, dare to grow, learn (often from mistakes) yet mistakes do not define you (as long as you get up) - these being comfortably unaccountable and unchallenged tend to skip the list, dismiss the list, and forget the list of character qualifications and often do their own thing, which is far from God's thing for them to do. Tim's thought brings up a varying topic, what is it a pastor does. Now some are diligent and they study to show themselves approved. While others are into meetings and programs but not the word, and when you need to find them, look at the nearest Burger King, Starbucks, or Krispy Kreme and the critics' corner will be satisfied. It goes back to the point that IF YOU PUT A MAN on A PEDESTAL or in an IVORY TOWER as we used to say, you are distancing them and their "holiness" or just "holes" in that you have them the head of a RELIGION or an INSTITUTION. Whereas as you say, they rule harshly, keep more than their share, get fat, become selfish, and eventually sooner than later, fall. That would be bad teaching and a bad understanding of the way things should be. Jesus came to earth to have a relationship with us. He cared for his family, he cared for his friends, he cared for his disciples, he had compassion for the crowds, he healed, he loved. These men too are real, they genuinely care for each one of us. They are real, they are accessible, approachable, real, and can be engaged in a meaningful relationship. Again no one is perfect, and we all will fail, yet this team here keeps all well managed in the barn and accountable, and if needed Iron does sharpen iron. Tim is right though when hurt, many like SLINKY's do shy away, and few come back. It is easy to nurture pain, one gets stuck in it, like flies on dung, and like glue stuck in the past, a depressing prison. The only hope is one day realizing the words of John referring to Jesus - You shall know the Truth, and when you do, He will set you free. The only one hurting in anger, pain, and unforgiveness or bitterness is ourselves. Once we see that, we can trade in that trash, and let Jesus mold and make a masterpiece.
Upon being saved as a young man of not quite 17 yet an "on-fire" new convert totally committed (and some in HS thought I should have been) and totally immersed even wearing a 5-inch wooden cross chained around my neck (a bit like Andrew Womack) but since were at the same time, not really copying him - every place I went. In youth ministry I signed up to volunteer for every office possible until I was picked for one to serve in. Indexing tabs and multi-color to my 1st Thompson Chain KJV, it was a joy to mark up the Word, as it also marked up and was changing/transforming me as I learned. Attending HS/College coffee meet and greet before church on Sunday morning, I was befriended by a young 23 yr old who's Mom was from the outback country of Australia, and he worked as a Kirby vacuum salesman in the day, and at the funeral home embalming at night, he took a liking to me and put me under his wing as an older brother, so much so the next year, we both were college dorm-mates going to Los Angeles and Bible college sensing the call. He would give me rides to church since it was a 7-mile walk when he did not pick me up. We would attend Sun morning, Sun night, Wed night, and be there for Sat. night Men's Prayer Mtg. Not to mention being hooked up to coffee house fish net nights, and pretty much something every single night. And then came in this young charismatic 28 yr old pastor who was to be youth pastor from San Angelo w a pretty wife whose parents were missionaries, and taught her to play the piano beautifully. A young kid never knows better especially when he was trained to honor and respect those who represented God. Within time this Texan would influence the church away from a good pastor, divide many and do things that were downright not right. In prayer time he would tell what position he liked w his wife, and that was not appropriate especially with young men who had a hard enough time focusing on the Lord, and not girls. While away at Bible school, he would promise me positions - you will be youth pastor, then director of education, and we built a pioneer church from the ground up one summer with much help to the people who liked his style of preaching. His parents were stern and strict missionaries so later studying psychology I understood this better, but not as a young man. So I went to LIFE Bible College, the Foursquare church that was founded by another controversial figure Aimee Semple McPherson, yet there were great teachers, and great people who once attended and later taught there, like Andrae Crouch, Chuck Smith (Calvary Chapel), Jack and Jim Hayford (Church on the Way, down the road in Van Nuys - Panorama City from John McArthur), Jerry Cook, Chuck Shoemake, Paul Hackett, Norman Van Cleave, Charles Walkem, Guy Duffield, Leslie Eno, John Amstutz, amazing teachers). Mid-way thru my bible college experience and development this pastor knew I was to receive an inheritance when I turned 21. My mother was long dead. My father could not speak to me for the past decade due to strokes and heart attacks. My step-mother was more interested in her own kids my father adopted and brought from San Salvador to America, and so I was left to the advice of this pastor who did teach me how to ride a motorcycle and drive somewhat, play tennis games in the heat, but mainly for ulterior interests. I worked one year as a youth pastor, returned to school, and was promised to be Christian Education director and Associate Pastor when I came back. By the way, that summer a graduate and myself split expenses of an apartment, worked side jobs, and had nothing but flake potatoes and sweetened condensed milk, while working free without pay, which I would do again and again, because I believed it was God calling me - and for the good, we did at the time, it was fruitful, and He did. I don't think he pulled me aside to be youth pastor, but rather to contact my dad's family lawyer to have jurisdiction over the incoming inheritance, that he had to show me how to budget and spend money correctly, what do they call it, like an old person who has lost their ability, power of attorney? So one day after I traded in my 79 Pinto that I had to pay him a $900 typewriter and $40 a week til paid off, he said I really need to tithe over and above for the good and ministry of the church. He asked for a White Toyota SR-5 pick up, of which I handed him 34 - 100 dollar bills in the parking lot, to pay cash, which he promised but never did payback. He then asked for money for his house - and that deposit was never paid back. He then asked for church money, which was gladly given. Never trust a man, no matter what he says he is, feet of clay will show up. I soon learned a painful lesson. So while at Bible college and graduating a 2nd time, being ordained and sent off, only to hear if I came back there would be no church to come to. For he had many sexual relations with other women and swindled them also out of their money. Now the Foursquare church was not much better than the Catholics when sweeping it under the rug. I was approached by the District Supervisor, the Regional Director, and told instead of holding him accountable, to forgive him or never ever be allowed to be in ministry again at least under Foursquare. It was not like they ever set me up with a church and a parsonage and gifts like I later saw some pastors making what seemed to be huge money for serving the Lord, $60,000 then $100+K, when I saw these, I was also a bit taken back. I was disillusioned and could not fathom all the hurt, but it was a good lesson for me. I could quote Scripture and tell many who came up to me with Bible chapter and verse, but I had no life experience, so with no real compassion, the heart of the experience, or knowledge to be a leader yet, I realized I had a lot more growing up to do. Many years later I never forgot what he did, but I did make peace with him, his children who I used to tell bedtime stories to, and his ex-wife who left him for obvious reasons. I remember what Jack Hayford later told us, never trust in a man to be an institution, for if you do when the man dies or is unable to keep it up, so then will the church if it is not built upon Jesus. So that was hurt 1 - and it was a good one. You could say I probably should have helped Henri Nouwen write his book, The Wounded Healer. It left me maimed and injured spiritually with the thought of ministering and serving, but for another 6 yrs, I kept at it.
What if the pastor is hard to deal with?
What happens when the pastor is not approachable? When they get angry easily?
Key points (in minutes 24-25) * PEOPLE ARE WATCHING US * and that said, if we fight among ourselves, are we not just giving others more a reason to point the finger? Are we then MISSING WINNING THE LOST to UNITE and KNOW CHRIST? When we divide and excommunicate followers without grace or steward governance, we have more hurting unresolved issues which is what a church is set up for, to bring healing, wholeness and restoration after introducing these to Jesus for Salvation. It is a solemn responsibility to teach and guide and shepherd.
I need an answer like yesterday please, 🙏. 2 days from now I will or not be speaking to our pastor, in 2013 I spoke to people who live on the streets one on one about YESHUA, in 2021 my wife started feeding street children have ( photos )but we run in to some problems and I stopped it for the safety of my wife and girl and boy, till we get an other premises, which we did... In 2023 February, where my pastor said my gift is evangelize which I did and now have a open air church and feeding people... Now on our church group they say we are there volunteers and look to me like they want to take our ministry from us but aren't even there and comment like us... What should I do???
Forgot to add, we only started to attend that church in 2023 February...
I going to a church for 4 years and the pastor told me that in order to become a member he needed to speak to my ex pastor. I was baptized once under a wrong believe and I told him I wanted to be baptized and he told me that we needed to talk about that. then I've been wanting to sing in the choir and they never allows me. I know Im saved by faith in the blood of Christ because of His love for me and the Power of His Christ Woed He made me born again so I really dont understand
Sounds like you need a new church.
🎯💯
That sounds like a dictator pastor. Get away from him.
Endured so much spiritual abuse mainly from pentecostal church
How are you now
I feel i asked to many questions ( 3 questions in different situations) i annoyed him i feel so uncomfortable, he actually looked annoyed i asked . He went to my friend in the church asked her to talk to me and answer my questions. Please help xx
I did and the elder just sat there and the pastor just denied everything and was believed.
Yes like Kyle said sheep had to be gently prodded back to keep following. We can never expect godly results from the tv teachings and shows of the ungodly. And yes many of the prosperity TBN shows and ministers are just that a show moving herds and droves far away in distractions and temporal worthless idols of want. Pastor Darryl's 1.11.21 sermon on Ps. 23 says it well, The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want, nor need more. He cares for me. He protects me. He guides me. He loves me even to lay his life down for my well-being. But I do like Pastor Kyle's technique - hey you dude >>> much like Pastor Darryl using a Brooklyn NY accent where I was born about how the shepherd says - hey You, w Me!!! So when one comes up to express a preference, we fall back into the Bill Hybels like (let's please and entertain the visitor, and that is not what church is all about) - the Word isn't just a suggestion it is a command. We either obey or go astray. The emphasis should not be "accept the word" or "accept Jesus" - there are a lot of things I accept in life, that I may not personally like or endorse or subscribe to. Rather it should be "follow the Word" and/or "Follow Jesus, as He said, Follow Me" that requires a decision to act, and commit and move with energy. The other is just a brain assent, ok yes mom, I did my homework, or I cleaned my room, or I know I have to do it, I will get to it later. There is no urgency in acceptance.
Lol moment around 15:30 - so Kyle/Jon when people gather at the door - pushing back on the sermon preached, would you kindly refer them for counseling to Pastor Tim's office so he can explain what you meant ... lol, only kidding. So many times I had people come up to me and say God spoke to me when you said, and I didn't say, but obviously, God did speak to them. For which God gets all the glory when one changes course and goes His way. I know the entire pastoral staff is not intimidated and does own their own feedback.
Interesting fact is that literally anyone can become a pastor and start their own church. It's one of the only professions that puts someone in leadership who doesn't have to be qualified to be there. Especially in the charismatic movement. I believe that's why there are so many people who are being hurt in the church today. If your pastor has not been called by God and has that calling, get out and leave.
Jeremiah 23:1-40, beware of pastors who twist and sweeten the word of God, I have always said, if a person is hurt by the word of God, they are being healed by the word of God, don't pay evil with evil, 1 Peter 3: 9-14, Isaiah 53 :7, we should learn from Jesus
Tim is right, when your trust is broken, you are befuddled and bewildered, a little so to speak, lost. GPS will not help in G-20 or vertigo moments. When you are knocked off-kilter or out of balance, it is like those old pinball games, TILT. Most do not know better (teaching was weak, as a result, commitment may also have been weak). Most do not know what to do, where to turn, how to go on to the next place. One thing is for sure when you get away from the church and regular teaching, you become more and more backslidden, complacent, justifying what was once a no-no like chocolate ice cream late at night and keeping a fit diet and exercise regiment. You become carnal and apostate, you fall away. It should not be a surprise, so many have, and now are hungry for any hope, any good word, anything that will REVIVE and REFRESH the soul, hence lately you see the growth at RBC.
I have a question. I recently joined a church. My pastor/bishop calls people out on their stuff which is ok. I feel like he prefers members that don't question him I feel and believe. I'm seeking God on this. He spoke on spiritual laziness. He directed a specific thing to me. Before he mentioned it, he said something about people being too sensitive and not being able to be real. More transpired is this ok?
Jon says it well because if you elevate a man, endorse a man, and he falls, those watching saved and the world can point and wag their fingers, see I told you so, and that's embarrassing. Following Jesus and leading is not an easy task. Kyle adds - these who God then denounces and goes against were only self-serving. They weren't about to grab a basin and wash feet, these wanted the peon people to pay homage and great respect and honor to them. No matter whether you are President or great, in Heaven, no one will be jockeying for position as so many do when it comes to power and authority - really mostly out of insecurity and immaturity.
Just a thought. Your last statement seemed to suggest that if your pastor hurts you, then find a church with humble leadership that won't hurt you? But that's after you have the Matthew 18 sessions where you seek repentance, right? And to find a church with leadership that won't hurt you is a tall order. My family and I are in the middle of this with our current pastor. Humbleness and meekness are attributes he strives for but can miss a lot. A statement one of you made suggests since he is not humble and meek that we should flee from the church? Without Matthew 18?
Please, references from the Bible 🥹
The chu4ch I left 2 months ago, i emailed the pastor but I also blocked him. There were no elders. I have agoraphobia and I havecbeen criticized because I have unbelief, when I have difficul5y. Jts dangerous for pastors to think everything mental is spiritual or sin.
If you know others have already talked to the pastor about the same issues you're experiencing and they've been shown the door, am I justified in skipping the step of talking to the pastor and showing myself the door and move on?
Run and don't look back! You are dealing with a proud leader who takes no accountability for his actions!
This the one ☝️ great question I have to run.
Kyle is right - talent doesn't equal certification. If a person is not lined up like a plumb line aligned to God, His Word, His Will, and willing to serve as Jesus did little else matters - no B.A., M.A., MBA, Ph.D., etc. God looks at the heart, not the nerdy textbook. He looks at those currently living out their faith, not those who will philosophize theoretically about it.
I know that it was sin cause 4 different times from 4 different people said the same thing about the church to the point that Iam looking into comments for negative reviews to see if someone has similar situations that we all experienced. I don’t like talking behind people back or even talk bad bout the house hold of faith but something is really wrong with the church and it’s scary frfr😔they are cool with people going to hell with gasoline underwear on
1:50 Why are you blaming the victims? If the person is abused as a child and assaulted by a pastor, how are they supposed to know? Will you blame the parents for the abuse the pastor has done?
I noticed your use of the road qualified. Where does qualifications come from. Who qualifies? And how long does it take? I know people 20 to 40 years in church still waiting to be qualified. This qualified word isn't biblical. Qualified pastors destroy people all the time.
Instead helping you clean your wool its taken .... Smh...
What about when Churches and self righteous, self seeking hypocrites, hurt their Pastor. Can't get their way, He preaches truth they don't like because it calls out their sin. They don't like his wife, or his family, so they accuse, gossip, find fault, won't listen, wont speak, leave, and basically do al they can to run him off. and then have Pastor stew for breakfast lunch and dinner. Why not grow up, shut up and get in and help instead of being part of the problem. So sick of seeing the "when Pastors hurt you" videos and that so often by people who call themselves Pastor's, Teachers, or Self appointed prophets sent by GHHOOD to correct the Pastors, but can't even correct their own house! Please!!!!!!!
True, another problem in churches. These are the type whom the enemy sent to be a thorn in the pastor's side with the evil intent to destroy the ministry. God will deal with these wayward "church members". They are certainly not sincere christians.