Does eco truss work? (loft conversion)
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- How does eco truss work? As a structural engineer I give my view on the Eco Trus loft conversion system and explain how the eco truss works. The Eco Trus system is designed to be a rapid way to convert your loft using lightweight steel profiles that are manufactured in the workshop prior to installation. There are a lot of popular videos on the channel "build it with Rob" showing the system being installed, and since several of you asked for my view on it, I decided to make this video explaining the system and how it works.
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I have no affiliation with EcoTrus or EcoLoft. This video is for infotainment purposes only, and no liability can be accepted for the accuracy of the content.
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I'm a chartered civil engineer with a specialism in structural engineering. None of the things I say or teach in my videos should be construed as 'advice', and you should always have your designs checked by a competent, experienced, registered or chartered engineer. - Věda a technologie
Thats a great insight and personal view, im sure will be helpful for many people (like myself) deciding from this system to the mote traditional way. Top work!
Glad it was helpful!
Did you pick a system?
I've absolutely no interest in doing a loft conversion, yet I found myself mesmerised by this video!
This is a generous gift to all of us CZcams information seekers Robin.
As a tradesman my past education is limited so to listen and view your knowledge is very much appreciated.
Thank you
Thanks Darrin, that's very kind!
Thanks for the great insight from an engineer's perspective. I am considering a loft, have seen Rob's videos and I find proper measurement and pre-manufacture appealing. Will be on my shortlist.
It's very generous of you to post this video, very helpful.
Glad to hear that!
I love watching the ecotrus lads work, so this is very interesting. Thanks.
Hey Robin. My roofing contractor put me on to EcoTruss. I [was] a civil-structural engineer and had just put together an outline for a dog-kennel dormer to go into our bungalow hip roof, but it needs to be done without disturbing the upstairs en-suite shower room.
I had dreamed up a structural framework to allow this "all by myself", and now discover that Eco Truss have done it already! My vision was of hot-rolled sections bolted together, but this is of course far better - and lighter. I also like the idea of pre-formed holes, which in our case can be used to re-route existing drainage pipes.
I note your warning about 'cold bridging' - will need to check our contractor sorts this out in design/construction.
Absolutely brilliant video. Thanks.
Thanks Neil. Hope you get it sorted!
Excellent and very helpful as I consider this approach for my loft conversion (60 yrs I failed my bending moments course). Like to understand this in a conventional 1960s purlin roof
Hi Robin, great detailed review, nice to get a professional opinion from someone with knowledge and experience in this type of thing.
I'm a carpenter myself and I'm wanting to open up the space in top of my double garage, I think the steel construction would be the easiest way to go but from a price point it would be expensive as I would do the labour myself if I went down the traditional route 👍
Thanks Danny. There's also the timber box beam / timber truss option if you prefer to stick with the material you know best.
Fantastic explanation of this system. I am considering this system for my loft.
Glad it was helpful!
Just having mine finished tomorrow solid system all locked together ( boys work hard ) 👍
That's great to hear, Kevin! 👍
Another great video! Could you do a video showing the calculations that would be needed for this system? Particularly the Dormer version as it looses the triangulation. Would be very interesting!
Thanks a lot for taking time to share your views. I’m still 50/50 on timber or c section at the moment
Check this out.
czcams.com/video/KwDB1B0qVyY/video.html
How did you proceed?
@@lawolsten timber box beam
@@rognevs5695 what was the deciding factor?
Did you document the conversion?
@@lawolsten cold bridging and cost
Interesting informative surveyor/engineer view. Actual jobs shown very fast with Rob & gang doing the job experts fit fast skillful good teamwork, sheer speed very persausive. I like the traditional framed roof with dormer one side roof windows the other. On old roofs while converting best recover with lighweight solution insulating the same time. Installing solar panels on duff roofs bit silly. I have a cornish unit awkward roof not well constructed would like to convert hip to gable if practical for extra space 20' internal x 14' between current purlin lines likely get 18' + width decent ensuite room/attic pad with fantastic views! Staircase installation space/access looks very difficult anyone done one? Advice gratefully received!
Funny just asked Rob how do you get the strengh then this popped up thanks great video
Really interesting stuff!
Perfect! I just stumbled on the Build it with Rob channel and saw this Ecotruss system.
This looks like it will work well with a dormer that im planning for my Loft conversion.
Brilliant stuff!
Thanks - glad you found it useful!
Thanks for your very instructive videos Robin - especially, for me, that on "ecotrus" loft conversion. There might be quite a number of folk who would be interested in a similar analysis of the "telebeam" option in which 3-part telescopic aluminium bearers are slid in at right angle to the eaves. That too uses metal beams alongside the horizontal joists but excludes them from the pitched rafters - presumably relying on horizontal timber collars at ceiling height to provide support for the upper roof. It strikes me, as an amateur, that this might avoid both the additional cost and weight required to be borne by lower levels and also thermal bridging of metal under adjacent to roof tiles. Although such bridging at eaves and the installation and maintenance of services through metal box and I-sections are questions in my mind.
I hope to tackle a telebeam video one day 👍
Great video Robin. One thing to consider for any loft conversion is the supporting walls. For Ecotruss solution some of the floor C sections may be above window lintels so extra load added which could be bad. For loft conversion with steels between the gables (new loft joists on hangers) that will put extra load on the gables. If made of blockwork are 3.5kN blocks acceptable at 1st floor level, and how much will padstones help. So another video on the supporting walls would be good. E.g. do BCO need all lintels exposing i.e. dry lining removing, also do the building foundations need exposing? Thanks again.
Thanks for the advice.
Very useful informative explanation
Would appreciate similar xplanation on dormer roof .
As we carry out traditional loft builds
Few of our clients prefer not to have eve space , you loose from at least front section approx 2/3 mtres of usefull floor space .
So we use rafters 175 mm & strap & bolt in.
Im assuming to do that with sheet metal £ would not be possible unless you use steel beams.
I am really enjoying this series. Can you cover how converting from a hip roof to Gable style roof?
One of the benefits I see is that the reinforcement is slid in front to rear, so doesn't require side access through gable ends or into party wall. Especially a benefit for a mid-terrace house.
You mention cost as a negative, but on their website you can enter your dimensions for an instant estimate and it's actually quite cheap. I imagine the reduced on-site time is the benefit. Less man hours. Try it yourself.
Finally, one negative that unfortunately makes it incompatible with my house. It has to sit on the external brick walls. My house has a low roof, so the soffets are lower than the ceilings. You can effectively see the inside of some of the roof on all the external walls. So when I enquired about it, they said it couldn't be done.
Great analysis, thanks :-)
6:30 I’d say they are load bearing. Any truss would drop even with the extra steels. I’ve build steel houses in NZ. That gauge and type of steel is flexible.
Thing I’ve noticed in the video of builders using this system is they never vacuum up the drilling shards. This is the start of those steels rusting. Clean up before covering over. And spray any drilled or newly cut areas with zinc rust proofer.
Hi Alastair. It's possible the studwork is loadbearing, or at least will transfer some of the deflection from the rafters to the floor joists. It's also possible that the whole system is designed as an "attic truss" and is triangulated. Thanks for your points also about the drilling.
Excellent analysis and overview by an engineer. Your independent assessment is greater value than to get to know the system by working with Eco Trus closely, as you'd become a sales agent for them.
What about putting solar panels on the new roofs? Can they handle the added loading? What about solar water heaters which are substantially heavier? What about adding substantial hot water storage inside the new room to use as energy dump when electricity from solar panels not needed?
There may well be extra capacity in the Ecotrus system to allow for solar panels and water storage, but you would need to ask them.
@@RobindeJongh Yes, I'll ask them in the form of architect's drawings and specifications. They can then look and see the stress load envelope of their system will cover my roof loading with suffiecient safety margins.
I asked your opinion as you invited questions....
Hi Robin. Like this video very much. Can you make another video to explain the durabase modular extension base system and compare with traditional construction? Thank you
This is basically a flitch technique with lighter cold rolled sections. The timber sandwiched at the wall plate provides the rigidity for the joist ends and the c-section on the rafters prevents deflection. Also the rock wool insulation laid within the joists would prevent cold bridging as it’s pushed to the end?
I have been considering a system like this since my home as a load bearing spine wall parallel to the loft joists. Just over 30% of the spine wall is built from the ground right up to the loft, the rest is sat 400mm in on 1st floor joists so I don't think I can put a UB or any extra weight to split the floor in the loft otherwise it could cause cracking to ceiling.
Good job, when they walk on the steel floor sections they do seem a bit flexible actually. If I was looking to do this then I would try to reduce the floor section depth to get more head height. I do realise the bending strength/stiffness comes from the depth Ixx however. Maybe look to maximise this shape. It looks like the holes are also for weight reduction as the material in the middle is doing next to nothing. Not sure I like the self tapping screws they use when the steel is so thin. Thanks for the review.
Very informative...thanks.
Hi Robin.
Thanks for the detailed explanation on the workings of eco truss. Nothing I can’t wrap my head around is that how does their dormer version work without a ridge beam. Please shed light on how structural strength is achieved with half the roof replaced with flat dormer that too without a ridge beam
Thanks
Very good question! They use a moment frame which they have especially designed for this. You can see it in some of Build it with Rob's videos.
The stud walls add strength, the cut out holes have the rafters that continues to the end bolted more than once, the transat at the ridge will hold. No bounce on the floor as the floor panels are the strengthening skin. The thermic barrier can be maintained with insulation. Because you remove the rive tiles for access you can insulate easily.
Thanks for your feedback Julian.
Does this work on a timber frame house?
Would you recommend ecotrus over traditional methods? I'm not too fussed about price if the end product is of a higher quality.
Hi , In the videos they do say that all habitable loft conversions ,that it is to building regs . I have spent 50 years in the construction industry and I think the system and the ease of building and the inconvenience to the living part of the property is first class . Even if timber is cheaper ,there is a lot more labour hours on site on site , so it is horses for courses .NO crane needed and no heavy steel work and very little scaffold hire .
Thanks. I agree, and it's great to get your experienced view on it.
I’ve watched their videos and I like the whole process. I am concerned about thermal bridging, especially on a dormer. They haven’t shown how they eliminate cold bridging on their dormer construction yet.
@@JohnnyMotel99 I think the best ,is to ask ROB VIA ONE OF HIS VIDEOS , as if a vented cold space or a fully insulated space .I did see him drill some large holes for venting air circulation on the video with the building inspector . Then if it was living space or storage space only .
The ends cuts are im assuming sprayed with cold galv it’s common in manufacturing steel products, like your vids you do go in good depth
Interesting video
I love experts....
This is so helpful Robin. I wonder how this system performs when we have a dormer roof.
Hi Asif. With a dormer roof they put in a specialised frame which I didn't cover in this review.
Check this out. Same system with a dormer. Thinking about doing this myself 👍🏽
czcams.com/video/KwDB1B0qVyY/video.html
So essentially the steel C section beams are doubling up each original timber triangular truss.
Could the same result be obtained by using , say, laminated OSB cut into lengths and bolted through both sides ?
Well done jop how much like this loft convention
Thanks Huseyin
How are you making a structural connection between the steel joist and steel sister rafter?
Hi Rob, Another company I was looking at for a loft floor is called Telebeam. The beams are telescopic so can be adjusted if needed. I don't know if you are aware of them but I would interested in your thoughts if you do a video on that product as well
Thanks for letting me know about telebeam - looks like an interesting solution.
Mine is getting fitted next week. The amount of extra room (length and height) I’m getting from this system compared to the “traditional way” is unbelievable.
Great feedback, Chris. Have you gone for the dormer version?
@@RobindeJongh no, just the Velux conversion
Do you mind sharing. How much it cost. I am currently trying g to get quotes
Hi Chris would you mind providing a rough idea of cost. Cheers mate.
@@glenreid69 hi. It’s was £12,900 for roughly 40mts squared to be supplied and fitted
A lot of their videos seem to be creating additional usable space, and not extra 'rooms' as such. I've seen one or two that are full habitable loft conversions. I think the mention of 'bolts' is interesting as I think it's all done with TEK screws, so it's more open to the DIY/jobbing builder market. The air gap below the felt should be 50mm (assuming it's using the original [non-breathable] felt). Planning permission should also be in your mind when you're looking at converting these loft spaces. You will need planning permission once it is above a certain (volumetric) size.
There are other systems like 'Telebeam' too that are worth looking into.
Thanks for your extremely useful comments!
Great video , been looking at Robs videos also. Do you have any videos on lifting beams and spreader beam for the lifting industry?
I've done quite a few of these in my career but no video as yet. I'll keep it in mind!
HI, in the Pro box you can add less cost with skips: with the cold rolled prefabricated steel joists there are no off cuts that need to be discarded at aprox 500£ per skip
Hi Robin
Thanks, very informative video. Do you think the cold bridging would be an issue, if the insulation is “tucked in well” with ventilation provision would minimise the issue and any condensation.
Thanks
There's a brilliant video here czcams.com/video/RthYYgzhMWU/video.html by Steve Roofer
Hi would you consider this as a non-standard construction and would cause any insurance or future sales issue?
In addition, if the rear wall is to be opened up on the ground for a single-storey rear extension, what would be the implication compared with a traditional loft conversion (in which side walls are used for supporting the loft)?
It is possible that this would be considered as "non standard" in terms of insurance, though this is not my area of expertise and you should check this with insurers. If you open up the rear wall the load of the roof and 2nd floor will need to be considered in the design of steel beams and masonry support, so you may end up with slightly larger steels and larger piers.
another option worth talking about if possible? Ply box type of conversion using hangers off the box, party wall agreement may be needed as with gable to gable steels
Thanks Rog. Yes, I like the ply box option myself and hope to give it a video at some point.
@@RobindeJongh if I got some plans drawn up of what I’m proposing to do using a ply box system with dimensions could you do me some calculations for building notice? Obviously charge me for your services?
@@rognevs5695 You can send me consulting requests here: forms.gle/2ZsCXZWifnZu3WXt6
Interesting system, trusses are at 600mm centre's. I've done loads of loft conversions, always been 150mm x 47mm rafters and 254 or 303 steel , spliced twice, nightmare to physically get it into the lofts, although mansard roofs are much easier, looks like an easy system to use on new builds with trada trusses,
One last point, a normal truss roof (assuming no sarking boards) will have longitudinal and diagonal bracing, and restraint strapping into the gable at rafter and possibly also ceiling level for tall gables. For the former Ecoloft will remove, and is the diagonal element provided by the plasterboard? Stud ladders would also help a bit if securely fixed. For restraint strapping not clear yet how Ecotruss cut and fix to the new steels. Any helpful thoughts? . . . and what would you guess BCO would want to see for these aspects. Final thought is ridge ventilation prob had to be added to comply with latest standards? also what about vent at top of the new eaves spaces?
Thanks John. Good points, though I can't comment on these aspects without having seen the design documentation.
@@RobindeJongh Thanks Robin. I'm thinking I'm wrong about the eaves top vent as long as the ventilation space continues to the top of the ridge. Interesting that recent loft conversions (prob not Ecoloft) on my estate don't seem to have added ridge vents, and I don't think they have converted to breathable felt.
Gussets at the top
Hello what design program are you using
4:50 That hole actually increases the strength because it's pressed out and has a lip all around it. You'll find the same thing in aircraft bulkheads
Spot on it forms a lightening hole the lip is very important structurally.
We are wanting to turn our trus loft into a room for our son and not sure what route to take and which would be most cost effective especially in the current covid climate. Would be interesting to get your views on way forward for a loft conversion?
Sure, you can get me for consultancy at forms.gle/aNKTA3ViycrNHv1L7
I’m curious as to how they deal with the various cold bridging issues that this creates.
I cant see how can deal with it without an integrated thermal break which there is not.
great video rob, but all the weight of the steelwork, would it effect the integrity of the house foundations?
Hi George. The steel is lightweight, so unlikely on an existing two storey house.
In this you say its only the centre section of the floor that gets strengthened joists in a traditional conversion? But that must mean the rafters need to be much more strengthened than with the eco truss? I know the structure works together but you can’t just have a strong floor as an island in the middle of the span? Something has to actually bridge the load out to the walls?
....watched your other videos and it all makes sense now
Seems to me that a simple triangle shaped flat steel gusset at each end and the peak would provide adequate strength and eliminate the need to cut off that bit they are currently.
Great explanation. Could you do a similar video showing Telebeams? It seems a much simpler solution. Aside from the weight and handling it I can’t see why you couldn’t use timber in the same way as the telebeam solution for limited spans especially seeing as the cost £450 each!
Hi. I contacted Telebeam and they didn't want to know, even though it would be unbelievably good advertising for them. By all means get in touch with them and ask them to get back to me. Timber wouldn't usually work because it can only span about 5m maximum as a rule of thumb.
Great video! I was wondering if you've seen a Telebeam system - a similar technique to Eco trus but aluminium is used instead. The ends are telescopic (so no need to get it manufactured to measure) and it does not requires the upper chord. Looks much weaker than this - but I was wondering if it is?
Hi Leszek. Telebeam looks like it has various UK approvals so probably will be a good system to go for. Aluminium also doesn't rust.
My nightmare would be the steel arrives and is 1" too long or some other measurement error, so the telescopic feature of Al ones is attractive and I would think it is worth paying extra for in order to avoid the worry and stress of the measurements being out.
Hi both. I was having a look at Telebeam too but they appear to need larger beams (depthwise) than Ecotrus to cover the same span. Looks like they are comparable depths to a conventional conversion but the Ecotrus system appears to allow the floor to be slightly lower than the conventional approach so may be an attractive option in cases where head height is hitting the limits.
Does anyone know the max length ecotrus will go too ?
you mention that the stud wall frames were likely not supporting the rafters, i was wondering why there seemed to be no fastening between the wall and the rafters but it makes sense if they’re not taking load. If it was all timber would you expect the stud wall to provide support for the rafters?
Hi John. There looks to be a connection between the top of the studwork and rafter probably just to hold it in place. If you check out my other video "how a loft conversion works" this shows how a stud wall would be used to support the roof.
@@RobindeJongh Hi Robin, thanks for the info, we’ve had a couple of loft conversions over the years, our current roof is hipped (1950’s semi) with a dormer over the hip to accommodate the stair well and ensuite, the steel has been angled at the gable where it sits on a lintel/padstone to avoid protruding through the roof and i was wondering if it had been cut back too far tbh but it’s been up for over 14 years without any major hitches (touch wood ;)
How do you run your plumbing pipework and power cables through these steel joists? I'm assuming you can't cut a hole through like you can with timber?
Hi Liam. I think that's what the holes at the eaves are designed for.
I'm having a new loft conversion this year which will involve the old roof and new roof space of a new extension. I'm still wondering about using ecoTruss for the enture roof structure but can't make my mind up. There is speed of construction as you said but there is also cost. And you have now highlighted some other issues, I wonder if ecoTruss can respond to these issues. I think the idea is good. I also wonder if their design does come with full approved design calculations that Building inspector will accept. Still watching this space 👍
Is it nonstandard construction, can you get a mortgage on it?
Speak to Ecotruss, they're very helpful. I found the price they quoted very reasonable. They would also produce all drawings and deal with building control. Sadly I couldn't use them for my project as it's not compatible with my low soffets.
If the circular holes are positioned properly that end joint could be positioned in such a way as to avoid the circular holes. The steel floor joists or beams it seems to me could be installed in two parts along their length and joined in the centre with a fish plate. This could be then done by the average competent person without removing any tile sections.
Having owned home (our first home in Aust) which was an all steel frame construction, I cannot see the necessity of creating i beams sandwiching the ceiling joist ... certainly the construction of our home used only C beams as floor joists and ceiling joists. The proper fixing of sheet flooring would avoid any flexing of the beams once installed. The end sections could be sprayed with a little polyurethane foam on the ends... I like the idea of truncating the steel before the edges of the roof to avoid cold bridging... Buying commercial 150 mm (or 200mm) x 50mm C section without the holes would be easy enough.... there are enough tools available to cut circular holes of appropriate size where needed on site rather than in a factory.... further cost savings could be achieved in this way.
The galv framed house we bought (new) in the late 70s is still standing as fresh looking as ever...and hey...in South Aust remains termite free. The only downside was floor bounce (like most Aust homes it was single storey). The house was essentially constructed like a ship and designed to flex in the floors...it was supported only by perimeter foundations played havoc with my hi-fi turntable... We insisted the builders came back and put appropriate concrete slab plates on the ground underneath the floor and their own proprietory floor jacks (which were part of the system) at appropriate places under the house. That same construction system utilising footings and floor done in a single pour (as is common in many Aust homes) and helicoptered off to make the house floor smooth and flat would perfect the system. All intrernal and external walls and ceiling were insulated with rockwool (I think that was a heated ans spun form of gypsum... could be totally wrong...it was not asbestos I know that).
I don't know why perimeter foundations with concrete infill beams are used in Britain... Footings dug, appropriate continuous (taped) membrane laid in all trenches and across floor space with polystyrene waffle pods places to cut down the volume of concrete and insulate... with rebar in footings and reinforcing mesh across the floor area could be used....and seems to me to make sense.
Is there a similar system in the United States available?
Hi Robin.
Being in the sheet metal trade I would think that the frames would all be cut/mitred before being galvanized
Thanks Matt. This depends if they are using pre-galvanised sheet steel, which I assume to be the case, but I may be wrong.
In NZ we would spray anything we cut with zinc spray paint to stop it rusting after cutting. Plus clean out metal shavings that start to rust in channels.
Ok for hot dry climates like parts of Australia but not really suited to wet climates. Condensation can be an issue. It’s got to be done with careful thought or it will start to rust. This might be a new industry in decades to come. Repairing stuff that’s lost it’s structural integrity.
@@muirallie Good points. In the UK there are many homes built after the 2nd world war that used non-standard systems, that now cannot be mortgaged unless repair work is carried out.
With your knowledge do you think this works on a new style build that is a timber frame with no work needed to strengthen the house?
Hi Andy. A timber frame may need assessment of the walls to check if it can take the additional load.
i did get a quote for ecotrus. They don't laser scan anymore,that's disappointing as possibly one of the time saving contributions. Stairs are extra, as are window openings, also the price is not for a weather proof structure externally. The waiting list is months. I was really keen however I am now considering conventional build as I can save 50% on the quote provided. More if I do some of the work myself.
The foundations of the house have not been designed to carry the self weight of the additional steel or the imposed load from the loft conversion , so how do you deal with this?
Sometimes by calculating loads and checking foundations, sometimes by load substitution, or sometimes the additional is only a small percentage of the existing.
Does it not gain headroom when compared to I beams over the top of the existing lower wooden beam.
Hi Christopher. Not really, as the new joists sit next to the existing ones. The I beam would sit within the stud wall space so no loss there.
I don't recall seeing any longitudinal bracing, when I've fitted timber trussed rafters for compliance there's been timber everywhere. Can't imagine calcs for the BCO would be an issue, they'd come out of the computer that does the design just like for timber trusses, when they've been required and I've sent them in, I doubt the computer calculations are checked on domestics, you just know it's big enough from experience.
Hi Alan. Timber truss manufacturers are well established and so is the software. Also timber truss design is described in detail in BS and EC codes. In contrast, this system is recent and bespoke, and checkers may well ask for more in the way of calculations as a result.
Have you a rough idea of the span limit using ecotruss also would a benefit of these truss mean potentially a thinner floor is possible?
I wouldn't know without calculating it. It's not necessarly a thinner floor, as timber floor would not be spanning the whole length of the property front to back.
9.5m is the max span on these
What happened to the original fink roof binders? They would clash with the cold rolled channels.
Yes, I assume the took them out at the beginning.
I like the ecotruss systemic . Robs makes it look very stress free for the owners. Our loft is a bit tight for a conversion , I was hoping this system would yield a larger overall internal loft height ?
Hi Andrew. Any system that places new floor joists next to original ceiling joists will yield a similar ceiling height.
I would say you will need min 2.8m clear from top of joist to underside of ridge beam to achieve 2.3m when complete. I don’t know the system but when I have designed loft conversions to the current conventional system 2.6m is the very min height you need as existing to hopefully achieve 2.3m.
@@craigalexander2037 Thanks Craig, that's an excellent rule of thumb.
@@RobindeJongh no problem, really appreciate your analysis of this system. I have wanted to recommend this on my future Architectural projects. feel free to connect with me on linkedin. Alexander Laird is my company.
Would using a system like this for just storage require building control ? The hight of my loft is 2m. The reason I like these systems is that the beams can span the hole length from back to front allowing air flow to pass over the insulation without any cross sections. No point loads using steel. The other is my semi detached home has a hip roof, it only has a short section of load bearing wall internally. The rest sits on 1st floor joists which rules out steel beams.
Your comment at 5m in about it being weak due to the hole, surely there is still a significant strength from the existing rafter structure, as these are still in place?
Hi Derek. True, and I believe Ecotrus also have calculations to show that the hole is ok.
Just another point on services and specifically electrics. Most lofts have cables for 1st floor lighting, fans etc here there and everywhere possibly routed as the crow flies and over trusses. Assume with Ecotruss it would be better before fitting trusses to rewire and run all cables off to the eaves, and connect there using cage clamp terminal JB to a highway running through the Ecotruss service holes (hole edges protected with push on plastic edging) i.e. no junction boxes under the new loft floor. Only thought on plumbing, keep it on the opposite side if possible. My only electric worry then is how to insulate from any damp/condensation at the eaves. I think Ecotruss do normally board the eaves space.
I had the same considerations too. Having recently rewired first floor, and now discovering eco trus for a potential dormer conversion, I'm guessing it'll need another rewire to pass everything through the service holes in the eaves. Also now thinking that any downlights fitted close to the existing joists will need to be drilled through the new steels - hoping that's not a problem?
Good point re: pipework on the other side. I'm a novice to all this, but logically wouldn't these considerations still be present for any type of conversion including timber? Except you could perhaps thread cables through at any point rather than in specified service holes in the eaves?
@@andyankrah6880 Hi Andy. Think I'd move my downlighters rather than dream of drilling the steel truss. Perhaps consider changing to LED strip lights if that would work for you. On the eaves not sure how many people do board them (which will create cupboard storage space). If not boarded then that makes the services easier. Or perhaps compromise and just board where you need cupboards. There are lots of rules to understand on drilling wooden joists if you go that route, so again personally I'd try to do a design to avoid that. I think Ecotruss intend you don't put any more holes in their C section joists (than the ones they provide at the ends) but best ask them direct so they can comment from their design calcs.
@@johncoppock3823 Makes sense, thanks John. Looks like more work to plan in before the loft then, but I agree that would be the better solution. I'd be boarding the eaves ready for fitted cupboards, so no shortcuts here! Best to just save up more and get it done right
I don’t even own a house but still watched
I imagine the reason the hole is there at the end is something to do with keeping the costs down during the manufacturing process. ie The holes are continued across the entire truss, and the truss is just cut down to length when the dimensions of the loft are specified- so it can just be cut down to size to suit the application?
Hi Tom. I thought the holes were just at the eaves, for services? I will have to look again.
Robin, I imagine the holes would repeat along the entire distance of the truss? This is done to decrease weight, and of course the extracted metal can be also be recycled (the technical term used for getting a bit of money back!) Circular holes of course being stronger than rectangles, because of SCF's (stress concentration factors). A good example of this is why aeroplanes now have windows that are rounded, as earlier flight experiments cause aeroplanes to break up mid-flight because of the creation of cracks in the corners of the then square windows.
The truss mbrv duznt need to go to the end as it can be supported off the horizontal steel. No load on that triangle
Looking some of the newer videos they have done, the hole you mention has been moved back and there is a bolt hole for it to stop rusting :)
Interesting video as this is something I’m looking at
Thanks - do you have the link to the video please?
@@RobindeJongh is the latest one czcams.com/video/-3sVkug1Peg/video.html
Seems over kill to me, should be enough to have 1 lightweight steel truss per joist ( could also be a seam welded full box section) and throughbolt the steel and joist , then retriangulate and reinforce the rafter structure in timber as normal. The method of inserting all the additional reinforcing through lifted sections of roof can be applied to any method of reinforcement/construction. You'll definitely get a lot of condensation forming on the cold ends in the eaves and it will keep the loft floor colder than it would be unless the eave space is fully insulated.
I do not rate the Eco Truss videos very highly as although the product is good they skip over some important bits eg fastening the steel to the wood, and the cost of each beam I never heard mentioned. Also, you have the extra cost of scaffolding and crane or a team of men to lift the heavy beams. Then there is putting the lower removed roof tiles back on which is harder with an old roof - tiles crack etc. With wood you can cut it more easily eg if there is a pipe or something to go over or you need a hole cutting - wood is easier to cut/modify than steel - easier to work with. It is hard to get measurements spot on - with wood this error is less likely as you can cut on the spot, & even extend a piece a few inches. I think their steel system is for the 50k + projects. I like it though.
Sorry totally disagree steel can be cut just as easy as timber and can be modified or added on timber this steel structure can extra cost for a crane no crane needed and scaffold is need either a timber conversion or ecotrus I’m a installer of the structures and over the conventional timber system cost space and time is a huge saving than timber structure iv been in structural steel as a welder fabricator for 20yrs the system design construction is honestly quite amazing to erect and see the finished product from first steps to completion and overall product is solid when it’s finished
I've watched videos where they do bolt through the wood.
How would you build the loft and how many steel you would have used ?
Hi Michael. I would probably go for steel beams (or timber box beams) as in my video here: czcams.com/video/yYLE7yZqAuU/video.html
Actually how this works is its bolted at many points in between, this makes it important for the bottom beam to bend, secondly the beam is still carrying most of floors weight at the ends the u beam is just there for it not to bend so the holes dont matter
They not for reinforcement as much as they are there to stop bending, that is why they are much higher than the wooden beam itself, the U shape in the middle between the eco trusses is what's stopping the wood from bending the floor keeps the metal trusses from bending in turn
Does this roof need purlins just to take any bowing
Hi Mark. It shouldn't need any purlins, however, I have no detailed knowledge of the design parameters used as EcoTrus are unwilling to share their design documentation.
Robin de Jongh thank you for that cheers
You missed out the fact that the bottom of the 'steels' are fifty millimetres above the bottom of the truss cord.
I think the hole is to deduct the weight
Is there a need to get your own architect drawings first ?
I think EcoTrus do the drawings - but probably not the room layout.
But..have they checked the torsion?
Wow that is a lot of steel work being inroduced
Why the holes in the section?
Hi Jane. They are for electrical, plumbing and heating.
Hi great video. I was wondering if you would be prepared to send me this drawing file via email?
I assume this product cannot be used on a normal cut roof i.e. rafters sat on wall plate then joists which run across (not a truss roof)?
Possibly. I would get in touch with them.
@@RobindeJongh I;m designing a cut roof where the rafters sit on the wall plate but the floor joists are about 900 below the wall plate so they are not connected to the rafters , any ideas? we are looking at supporting posts and purlins and maybe a supporting bracket just below the ridge,
it's a steel truss...what's "eco" got to do with it?
@@robertlavington2332 and what do you need to recycle steel ?
Flat roof, never a good idea.