My girls both coach and ski race for their high school. I’ve always maintained their edges since our snow tends to be icy often, and I’m an aerospace engineer and metal worker by trade. This is probably the best video I’ve seen on this. Watched this as a refresher. Thank you.
Thanks for putting this video together! Im a mechanical engineer, so not a materials expert, but I dabble. In the video you said that when you hit a rock it creates heat, and that hardens the edge. I believe that when you hit a rock, it "cold works" (or strain hardens) the steel edge, which means that by deforming it, it disrupts the crystal structure which makes it more stiff. This is because the defects in the crystal structure make it more difficult for the crystal planes flex and slip past each other, so it takes more force to deform (or in this case cut) the metal.
Ha this came to mind as I watched the video and then this is the first comment I saw. The steel is work hardened. Not that it matters at all in this context!
Thank you! I realy like the theoretical models/scetches as intermezzo's in the video. Especially the fact that the a). base and b). side edges add up for the edge cut!! Finally understand edge tuning after watchting this. Thnx.
Personally, as someone skiing on wc skis I always like detuned tips and tails. If the tips and tails are too sharp in my experience, the skis can hook too much and be really tough to transition out of a turn. I would say always keep a gummy stone in your bag and detune when necessary
I'm confused by the diagram showing the bevel/ sidewall grinding. The cut is showing a bevel that is an acute angle, Wouldn't we want a cut that is obtuse? Or are there situations where we might want one or the other? Or am I reading the diagram wrong? *disregard. After watching more, your explanation of the difference between a side bevel and a base bevel answered my question. Great video! It would help to have top and bottom of the ski labelled. Otherwise, very informative!
Honestly I wouldn't advise to use only a diamond file, if you ski on ice, or hard pack, or slushy snow can also make the edge really dull, so I would use a normal file every day, if the snow was hard packed, or icy, but I'm a racer, and it is really time consuming(with waxing, it could be more than an hour),so if you are not so concerned about the conditions the next day, you sholdn't worry that much, and sharpening dayly nakes skies last one season or less
I bought some used skis from a shop in Salt Lake City. They told me they had tuned the skis to 1-1, their standard practice. I found out, however, that the factory setting for the skis in question is 1-2. Should I pay a shop to have the edges retuned, or won’t it make much difference.
Garth, you may want to wait until your next tune to make the change. The current tune will be great, but then you can see if you can feel the difference.
what are you saying? hitting the rock -> harden the steel edge more than that of a file? you know how file is harden? quench in water/oil after glowing red hot. The quality file is pretty hard. Just saying. Anyways, great video and info. Thanks
@ GenuineGuideGear - i've tuned my snowboard edges... while doing the bottom part - it got those black ultrasmall shavings somehow encorporated with the base... how can i remove that (the base is white)
IF the base bevel is only on the metal edge and the side bevel is referenced off the plastic base then the base bevel subtracts from the side wall bevel. Personally I always keep my base bevel at 0° and set my inside sidewall bevels to 88° and outside sidewall bevels to 90°. Occasionally I put my skis on the wrong way round and boy do I notice! My engineering head says a wobbly human wouldn’t notice the difference of 2° but I’d be very wrong! Give it a try. After 30 years skiing at 88° I am going to try 87° this year.
@@leifer20 So the base bevel makes the inclusive angle more obtuse. The side bevel makes the inclusive angle more acute. The side bevel removes material at the heel and the base bevel removes material at the edge. If you were to use an 88 degree side bevel and a 2 degree base bevel then they cancel each other and give an inclusive (final) angle of 90 degrees. Therefore you lose the advantage of a more acute angle that will cut into hard snow.
@@leifer20 Yes every time I hear it, even from expert ski tuners, they get it wrong and I struggle to explain the correct way it works. Or rather they fail to listen? I have spent a lot of time sharpening woodworking planes which are slightly more complicated. They have a primary bevel, a micro bevel and sometime a back bevel. The primary bevel gives a fairly acute angle, usually 25 degrees, but the micro and back bevel make the tip more obtuse. This means it stays sharper longer and is less likely to chip. It is a compromise though. I have different blades for softwood, hardwood and awkward grained hardwoods. I have now tried out my 87 degree inside edge ski setup at the indoor ski slope and it really suits me. I also haven’t detuned the tips as suggested. Hoping this suits me in La Grave, France, in 3 days time.
Every video that I've watched about tuning skis at home starts off with the base edge. DON'T do it. Let your local shop set the base edge. Once the base edge is set don't mess with it work on the side edge. I've been fixing these mistakes for 20 years.
Unfortunately you can't ever get rid of those bottom hits. The best and only thing you can do is take a diamond stone to the hardend edge. Make sure the stone is wet and work it until you "feel" the edge is consistent. I've been running a shop for a little longer than I'd like to say.
My girls both coach and ski race for their high school. I’ve always maintained their edges since our snow tends to be icy often, and I’m an aerospace engineer and metal worker by trade. This is probably the best video I’ve seen on this. Watched this as a refresher. Thank you.
Thanks for putting this video together! Im a mechanical engineer, so not a materials expert, but I dabble. In the video you said that when you hit a rock it creates heat, and that hardens the edge. I believe that when you hit a rock, it "cold works" (or strain hardens) the steel edge, which means that by deforming it, it disrupts the crystal structure which makes it more stiff. This is because the defects in the crystal structure make it more difficult for the crystal planes flex and slip past each other, so it takes more force to deform (or in this case cut) the metal.
Ha this came to mind as I watched the video and then this is the first comment I saw. The steel is work hardened. Not that it matters at all in this context!
Nice to some see smart people on youtube 👍🏻
Yep, the steel is work hardened, not hardened by the heating (and subsequent cooling in ice)
great video. the best information I have seen in any video ever. but, buy a microphone
one of the better ski tune videos on youtube😊 thankyou
Very descriptive and thorough . Thanks !
Thank you! I realy like the theoretical models/scetches as intermezzo's in the video. Especially the fact that the a). base and b). side edges add up for the edge cut!! Finally understand edge tuning after watchting this. Thnx.
Yea, thanks Jon. I watched a few and yours will be saved and serve as my reference. Next, it's off to the hardware store :)
Wow! What a lesson!
Great tips. Thanks 😁
Excellent guide!
Awesome video, thanks for the help!! :)
Love it. Thank you!
Awesome vid! Very informative. Thank you!
Great tutorial.
Very helpful
Wow, very good video!!
well done thanks
Thank You!!!
Personally, as someone skiing on wc skis I always like detuned tips and tails. If the tips and tails are too sharp in my experience, the skis can hook too much and be really tough to transition out of a turn. I would say always keep a gummy stone in your bag and detune when necessary
snowboarding, love my gummi stones for tuning and deburring on the mtn. gummi stones dont take off as much as a diamond file and easily removes rust.
Any chance on going over the base level process without a tuner?
Hi, thanks for this video! You don't talk about removing bur from edge tuning. How do you do it and is it necessary?
I'm confused by the diagram showing the bevel/ sidewall grinding. The cut is showing a bevel that is an acute angle, Wouldn't we want a cut that is obtuse? Or are there situations where we might want one or the other? Or am I reading the diagram wrong?
*disregard. After watching more, your explanation of the difference between a side bevel and a base bevel answered my question. Great video!
It would help to have top and bottom of the ski labelled. Otherwise, very informative!
I have always detuned out of habit, probably will continue to do so.
Hello... thank u because u show how To control if the base is flat.... not every vidéo. ... ciao
Honestly I wouldn't advise to use only a diamond file, if you ski on ice, or hard pack, or slushy snow can also make the edge really dull, so I would use a normal file every day, if the snow was hard packed, or icy, but I'm a racer, and it is really time consuming(with waxing, it could be more than an hour),so if you are not so concerned about the conditions the next day, you sholdn't worry that much, and sharpening dayly nakes skies last one season or less
what is the one circumstance for the 85" edge tuning guide? sidewall removal?
I bought some used skis from a shop in Salt Lake City. They told me they had tuned the skis to 1-1, their standard practice. I found out, however, that the factory setting for the skis in question is 1-2. Should I pay a shop to have the edges retuned, or won’t it make much difference.
Garth, you may want to wait until your next tune to make the change. The current tune will be great, but then you can see if you can feel the difference.
10:48 Detune tips and tails
arkansas stone for polishing instead of sand paper?
What about removing the edge burr after tuning the side edges?
The polish should get that
swix and toko say you should pull your files not push.
what are you saying? hitting the rock -> harden the steel edge more than that of a file? you know how file is harden? quench in water/oil after glowing red hot. The quality file is pretty hard. Just saying. Anyways, great video and info. Thanks
@
GenuineGuideGear - i've tuned my snowboard edges... while doing the bottom part - it got those black ultrasmall shavings somehow encorporated with the base... how can i remove that (the base is white)
Citrus cleaner
I suppose free handing with a honing stone is frowned upon?
IF the base bevel is only on the metal edge and the side bevel is referenced off the plastic base then the base bevel subtracts from the side wall bevel. Personally I always keep my base bevel at 0° and set my inside sidewall bevels to 88° and outside sidewall bevels to 90°. Occasionally I put my skis on the wrong way round and boy do I notice! My engineering head says a wobbly human wouldn’t notice the difference of 2° but I’d be very wrong! Give it a try. After 30 years skiing at 88° I am going to try 87° this year.
The base bevel is reference to the base. it's 1 degree from flat base.
@@leifer20 So the base bevel makes the inclusive angle more obtuse. The side bevel makes the inclusive angle more acute. The side bevel removes material at the heel and the base bevel removes material at the edge. If you were to use an 88 degree side bevel and a 2 degree base bevel then they cancel each other and give an inclusive (final) angle of 90 degrees. Therefore you lose the advantage of a more acute angle that will cut into hard snow.
@@mikeboyd1961 That's fair, I understand now. I'm surprised that I have never read this anywhere.
@@leifer20 Yes every time I hear it, even from expert ski tuners, they get it wrong and I struggle to explain the correct way it works. Or rather they fail to listen? I have spent a lot of time sharpening woodworking planes which are slightly more complicated. They have a primary bevel, a micro bevel and sometime a back bevel. The primary bevel gives a fairly acute angle, usually 25 degrees, but the micro and back bevel make the tip more obtuse. This means it stays sharper longer and is less likely to chip. It is a compromise though. I have different blades for softwood, hardwood and awkward grained hardwoods. I have now tried out my 87 degree inside edge ski setup at the indoor ski slope and it really suits me. I also haven’t detuned the tips as suggested. Hoping this suits me in La Grave, France, in 3 days time.
Every video that I've watched about tuning skis at home starts off with the base edge. DON'T do it. Let your local shop set the base edge. Once the base edge is set don't mess with it work on the side edge. I've been fixing these mistakes for 20 years.
Can you elaborate. How are you supposed to get all those jagged bottom edges from dragging mid-season? Do you work in a shop? Thanks!
Unfortunately you can't ever get rid of those bottom hits. The best and only thing you can do is take a diamond stone to the hardend edge. Make sure the stone is wet and work it until you "feel" the edge is consistent. I've been running a shop for a little longer than I'd like to say.
@@grujenkins
thanks