Wow. No offense intended, but you missed the boat on this one. Like you said, it's your first time doing it. First, locate the queen in the bottom box. 2. Make sure the upper box has food stores, capped brood, and day old eggs. 3. Divide the boxes with the double screen divider board with it's entrance of the upper box facing opposite of the lower hive body. Just be sure that the lower box has enough room to accommodate all the returning field bees that will come back to their known entrance. Check back in a couple days to see that the upper box is producing a queen cell. If so, your done. Come back when your figure she should have returned from her mating flight and should be laying. If she is laying, you can leave it as a double queen colony or move that newly created top colony to a new location. Simply put, you divide them and that's basically it. If the new queen somehow fails to return in the upper box, you simply remove the divider board and do a newspaper combine. There is no need for all that 3 day doing this or that or switching entrance openings. All unnecessary time and effort. AND, there is no queen excluder in the picture with this method. Using that queen excluder for the three days prior to putting on the Snelgrove board/double screen divider board is an instant disaster. That upper box needs to have day old eggs to make a queen. Putting a queen excluder in for three days prior to the divider board, the original queen of didn't lay new eggs in that box. Now that split has only eggs that are three days or older to attempt to make a queen from. You also forgot to mention that using this Snelgrove board, the bees in the upper box will have no physical contact with the original colony in the lower box. They will know their queenless and in no time start work on creating a queen. With this method, the upper box benefits by having the heat of the larger number of bees in the lower box rise up to them. Bottom line, it's a simple method to produce another hive. It's damn close to simply dividing the hive in half. It's not complicated at all. Your video portrayed this method as something complicated when in reality it's a simple way to create a new colony.
" No offense intended, but you missed the boat on this one"..No offense taken, thanks for your view on this. No offense intended, but you missed the boat on what I am trying to achieve here. With your method all you are doing is producing a new queen. If that was all I wanted to do I would just graft and call it a day. With Mr.Snelgrove's method we are producing a queen but also removing the nurse bees from the main hive, which will reduce the likelihood it wanting to swarm and the upper box has no flight bees reducing the likelihood of it wanting to swarm. The bottom box continues to get boosted with the older flight bees from the upper box over the course of two weeks but still no nurse bees which will help them to make a good honey crop and still prevent them making cells. The upper box does have fresh eggs to produce a good queen as I removed all the brood/eggs from the bottom box except the frame the queen was on. I am sorry if you found the video complicated, I thought the same thing the first time I read Mr. Snelgrove book but after reading it a second time I found it very simple. Now I did this on four hives last summer two worked as Mr. Snelgove said, But two were not perfect, and I feel that was 100% my fault, I did not give them enough honey boxes to keep up with the crazy honey flow last year. Again thank you for you view on this, but as I said I don't think you realized that my goal with this was not to simple produce a new queen/hive it was to produce a queen and make a good honey crop AND to TRY and prevent a swarm Thank you. Scott
If you move the bulk of the brood into the upper box, to sustain that split, you'll also be automatically transferring the nurse bees that are tending them. With that neither box would be inclined to swarm. The upper box would have virtually no field bees and the lower box would have its numbers decreased. On both ends, the impulse to swarm is decreased. Using the queen excluder, you eliminated the possibility of fresh eggs. What was fresh day old eggs would now be three days old by having the queen separated for that length of time before placing the Snelgrove board in place. So "fresh" eggs are non-existent at that point. Any eggs in that top box are days or more old. This is not just a method of producing a queen as you state. That top box would have emerging bees. Food stores. Nurse bees that graduated to field bees and a new laying queen. That's a colony in my book. Like you said, if you simply wanted to produce a queen you'd graft one. No doubt or use queen castles for that purpose. But the Snelgrove method gives you an up and running working colony. As you say you used the original Snelgrove method and had a 50% success rate. As Dr Snelgrove hit upon a brilliant idea with creating that concept and the genius of the dividing board that bears his name. His concept was from 1934. What I'm presenting to you is that the original, 90 year old concept/ procedure can be streamlined. That's what I'm trying get out there. Eliminate the three days of the queen excluder. That's part of the 90 year old concept. You'll see an increase in the success rate.
@@michaelpeterson4995 By moving all the brood above the queen excluder you get ALL the nurse bees in the upper box as they want to be with the brood. They move up through the excluder to rejoin the brood. "Using the queen excluder, you eliminated the possibility of fresh eggs." ...No, I am using the excluder to separate the nurse bees from the queen, there are enough eggs already in the upper box for the bees to make a new queen. This also lets you know that there is not a second queen in the hive ( if you go in and catch them in the middle of a supersedure ) I was in Hive 13 an hour before I did this hive (15) but I saw that that was what they were doing so didn't try the Snelgrove system. If you have a queen in both boxes they make no cells There were fresh eggs on the day of this video in the upper box and they began cells immediately, the queen excluder and the one honey box is enough to get them to start a cells (will see this in the next video) The Snelgrove board is added later only for the doors so that the emerging fight bees over the following weeks can be siphoned off and added to the bottom box. "method and had a 50% success rate."...My mistake, not the method, I should have added more space. " But the Snelgrove method gives you an up and running working colony."...I am not trying to get an up and running colony I am trying to produce a honey crop, slow swarming and make a queen (although that is only secondary) and this hive is very much an up and running hive. "His concept was from 1934." I have the book (second edition March 1935)
@@BeekeepinginNorthernOntario The bees in the upper box didn't start making queen cells virtually instantly because they were above the queen excluder. Just like if a queen starts laying in a honey super. You put a queen excluder in place to keep her out of the honey super and prevent her from getting in there again. The workers don't start building queen cells up in the honey super because the eggs are above the excluder. They know they have a queen. The eggs in the honey super simply go the course and it's done with. Your bees were able to travel back and forth and have personal contact in both boxes and exchange pheromones. They would still be queen rite in their world. They built queen cells in the upper box out of coincidence for swarming or a supercedure just like the other hive you opened prior to doing this Snelgrove procedure. They didn't build cells simply because the eggs were above the excluder. The nurse bees didn't need to rejoin the brood that was moved up into the top box . The nurse bees required to care for the brood were already on the frames of brood when the frame was relocated. There's need for the queen excluder process. And yes you moved "fresh eggs" into the top box at that moment and put the queen excluder in place. Other than them having swarming or queen replacement in mind, there is no need for them to build queen cells up there. They still believe their queen rite. Now three days later, you switch out the queen excluder and put the Snelgrove board in place. Very quickly the bees in the upper box realize their queenless. For three days the queen wasn't permitted to lay in that upper box. They'll now attempt to make a queen out of whatever is available.... The eggs that have been there a minimum of three days is their option.
@@michaelpeterson4995 "The bees in the upper box didn't start making queen cells virtually instantly because they were above the queen excluder." I did this operation on four hives last summer and at the time I put in the queen excluder there were no queen cells on any of the frames I put in the upper box with the (exception of hive eight I missed that one) But the other three had no cells. When I returned three days later to put in the Snelgrove board all of them had cells stated and in the end all four hives had laying queens in the upper boxes. No swarm "They'll now attempt to make a queen out of whatever is available" no the cells were already started. Next video I installed the board and the hive had open cells nicely starred as did the other three hives.
I was yelling Scott, wait!! LOL Looking forward to how this went. I tried this last year in hopes of making some queen cells and it was a failure and I got no cells.
I have been enjoying your videos and info. I noticed that there are holes in the middle of brood box frames. I have thought about those through-holes myself. Could you do a video on your description of the holes and what benefits you see from them? Thanks. 🐝
"Could you do a video on your description of the holes and what benefits you see from them?"...Sure, I will try to do that, but I think the short answer is if you live in a colder climate like me and you have long winters then I think they will help. Many times the bees close these holes but many times they do not. I often see in the spring the cluster has shrunk to the size of a softball and they are moving from one side a frame to the other through these holes so for me I will keep putting them in. Thanks Scott
Wow. No offense intended, but you missed the boat on this one. Like you said, it's your first time doing it. First, locate the queen in the bottom box. 2. Make sure the upper box has food stores, capped brood, and day old eggs. 3. Divide the boxes with the double screen divider board with it's entrance of the upper box facing opposite of the lower hive body. Just be sure that the lower box has enough room to accommodate all the returning field bees that will come back to their known entrance. Check back in a couple days to see that the upper box is producing a queen cell. If so, your done. Come back when your figure she should have returned from her mating flight and should be laying. If she is laying, you can leave it as a double queen colony or move that newly created top colony to a new location. Simply put, you divide them and that's basically it. If the new queen somehow fails to return in the upper box, you simply remove the divider board and do a newspaper combine.
There is no need for all that 3 day doing this or that or switching entrance openings. All unnecessary time and effort. AND, there is no queen excluder in the picture with this method. Using that queen excluder for the three days prior to putting on the Snelgrove board/double screen divider board is an instant disaster. That upper box needs to have day old eggs to make a queen. Putting a queen excluder in for three days prior to the divider board, the original queen of didn't lay new eggs in that box. Now that split has only eggs that are three days or older to attempt to make a queen from.
You also forgot to mention that using this Snelgrove board, the bees in the upper box will have no physical contact with the original colony in the lower box. They will know their queenless and in no time start work on creating a queen. With this method, the upper box benefits by having the heat of the larger number of bees in the lower box rise up to them.
Bottom line, it's a simple method to produce another hive. It's damn close to simply dividing the hive in half. It's not complicated at all. Your video portrayed this method as something complicated when in reality it's a simple way to create a new colony.
" No offense intended, but you missed the boat on this one"..No offense taken, thanks for your view on this.
No offense intended, but you missed the boat on what I am trying to achieve here.
With your method all you are doing is producing a new queen. If that was all I wanted to do I would just graft and call it a day.
With Mr.Snelgrove's method we are producing a queen but also removing the nurse bees from the main hive, which will reduce the likelihood it wanting to swarm and the upper box has no flight bees reducing the likelihood of it wanting to swarm.
The bottom box continues to get boosted with the older flight bees from the upper box over the course of two weeks but still no nurse bees which will help them to make a good honey crop and still prevent them making cells.
The upper box does have fresh eggs to produce a good queen as I removed all the brood/eggs from the bottom box except the frame the queen was on.
I am sorry if you found the video complicated, I thought the same thing the first time I read Mr. Snelgrove book but after reading it a second time I found it very simple.
Now I did this on four hives last summer two worked as Mr. Snelgove said, But two were not perfect, and I feel that was 100% my fault, I did not give them enough honey boxes to keep up with the crazy honey flow last year.
Again thank you for you view on this, but as I said I don't think you realized that my goal with this was not to simple produce a new queen/hive it was to produce a queen and make a good honey crop AND to TRY and prevent a swarm
Thank you.
Scott
If you move the bulk of the brood into the upper box, to sustain that split, you'll also be automatically transferring the nurse bees that are tending them. With that neither box would be inclined to swarm. The upper box would have virtually no field bees and the lower box would have its numbers decreased. On both ends, the impulse to swarm is decreased.
Using the queen excluder, you eliminated the possibility of fresh eggs. What was fresh day old eggs would now be three days old by having the queen separated for that length of time before placing the Snelgrove board in place. So "fresh" eggs are non-existent at that point. Any eggs in that top box are days or more old.
This is not just a method of producing a queen as you state. That top box would have emerging bees. Food stores. Nurse bees that graduated to field bees and a new laying queen. That's a colony in my book.
Like you said, if you simply wanted to produce a queen you'd graft one. No doubt or use queen castles for that purpose. But the Snelgrove method gives you an up and running working colony.
As you say you used the original Snelgrove method and had a 50% success rate. As Dr Snelgrove hit upon a brilliant idea with creating that concept and the genius of the dividing board that bears his name. His concept was from 1934. What I'm presenting to you is that the original, 90 year old concept/ procedure can be streamlined. That's what I'm trying get out there. Eliminate the three days of the queen excluder. That's part of the 90 year old concept. You'll see an increase in the success rate.
@@michaelpeterson4995 By moving all the brood above the queen excluder you get ALL the nurse bees in the upper box as they want to be with the brood. They move up through the excluder to rejoin the brood.
"Using the queen excluder, you eliminated the possibility of fresh eggs." ...No, I am using the excluder to separate the nurse bees from the queen, there are enough eggs already in the upper box for the bees to make a new queen.
This also lets you know that there is not a second queen in the hive ( if you go in and catch them in the middle of a supersedure ) I was in Hive 13 an hour before I did this hive (15) but I saw that that was what they were doing so didn't try the Snelgrove system.
If you have a queen in both boxes they make no cells
There were fresh eggs on the day of this video in the upper box and they began cells immediately, the queen excluder and the one honey box is enough to get them to start a cells (will see this in the next video)
The Snelgrove board is added later only for the doors so that the emerging fight bees over the following weeks can be siphoned off and added to the bottom box.
"method and had a 50% success rate."...My mistake, not the method, I should have added more space.
" But the Snelgrove method gives you an up and running working colony."...I am not trying to get an up and running colony I am trying to produce a honey crop, slow swarming and make a queen (although that is only secondary) and this hive is very much an up and running hive.
"His concept was from 1934." I have the book (second edition March 1935)
@@BeekeepinginNorthernOntario The bees in the upper box didn't start making queen cells virtually instantly because they were above the queen excluder. Just like if a queen starts laying in a honey super. You put a queen excluder in place to keep her out of the honey super and prevent her from getting in there again. The workers don't start building queen cells up in the honey super because the eggs are above the excluder. They know they have a queen. The eggs in the honey super simply go the course and it's done with. Your bees were able to travel back and forth and have personal contact in both boxes and exchange pheromones. They would still be queen rite in their world. They built queen cells in the upper box out of coincidence for swarming or a supercedure just like the other hive you opened prior to doing this Snelgrove procedure. They didn't build cells simply because the eggs were above the excluder.
The nurse bees didn't need to rejoin the brood that was moved up into the top box . The nurse bees required to care for the brood were already on the frames of brood when the frame was relocated. There's need for the queen excluder process.
And yes you moved "fresh eggs" into the top box at that moment and put the queen excluder in place. Other than them having swarming or queen replacement in mind, there is no need for them to build queen cells up there. They still believe their queen rite. Now three days later, you switch out the queen excluder and put the Snelgrove board in place. Very quickly the bees in the upper box realize their queenless. For three days the queen wasn't permitted to lay in that upper box. They'll now attempt to make a queen out of whatever is available.... The eggs that have been there a minimum of three days is their option.
@@michaelpeterson4995 "The bees in the upper box didn't start making queen cells virtually instantly because they were above the queen excluder."
I did this operation on four hives last summer and at the time I put in the queen excluder there were no queen cells on any of the frames I put in the upper box with the (exception of hive eight I missed that one) But the other three had no cells. When I returned three days later to put in the Snelgrove board all of them had cells stated and in the end all four hives had laying queens in the upper boxes. No swarm
"They'll now attempt to make a queen out of whatever is available" no the cells were already started. Next video I installed the board and the hive had open cells nicely starred as did the other three hives.
I was yelling Scott, wait!! LOL Looking forward to how this went. I tried this last year in hopes of making some queen cells and it was a failure and I got no cells.
I did four hives last year, two worked as the book described and two gave me more cells than I wanted....LOL
Thanks for Watching
Thanks for the video. Good luck with all your bees this year. Almost spring now in the UK !
Sunny and chilly here today, about -3C, we got a little snow last night, about 1 inch, first snow in weeks...I am loving this global warming stuff...
I have been enjoying your videos and info.
I noticed that there are holes in the middle of brood box frames. I have thought about those through-holes myself.
Could you do a video on your description of the holes and what benefits you see from them?
Thanks. 🐝
"Could you do a video on your description of the holes and what benefits you see from them?"...Sure, I will try to do that, but I think the short answer is if you live in a colder climate like me and you have long winters then I think they will help. Many times the bees close these holes but many times they do not. I often see in the spring the cluster has shrunk to the size of a softball and they are moving from one side a frame to the other through these holes so for me I will keep putting them in.
Thanks
Scott
I have shot a little update video on the communication holes
czcams.com/video/YbTY0OOAbDg/video.html
is this video recorded infeb 2024 in northern Ontario? Looks awfully warm... Great content. thanks!
In the first few seconds of the Video "Filmed on June 19th 2023"...But it is very warm here this year..just not that warm