no both are people why you gotta delineate between the two your just elevating her and thats not the best thing. She seems like she has had some realization or insight but she is still obviously human we all are, death is a massacre because no one escapes it.
When the me/I/ego/self BRIEFLY & mysteriously dissolved here, what was left here was a kind of impersonal, indescribable me or aliveness in which none of the personal "why/how/what/when/where" questions remained & life was suddenly free, happy, light, fun, easy and BEAUTIFUL beyond words & it was mysteriously seen that there is only happening or happenings - that no one nor no thing is "doing"...just automatic happening! So, I/this went out to ride city busses & see what total freedom feels like in action. This is a long story from the past but the difference between being a separate me/ego and having no me/ego was stark and indescribable except to say the freedom and joy was EXTREME when the ego/me was briefly gone. I'm back to being a troubled Seeker but will never forget the amazing difference that the one time loss of a 'me' produced over here.
Omg I love both of you! ❤ also enjoying the contrast between Laura-Jane's straight hair and angular features and Izzy's curly hair and round face 😍😁 Both lovely!
It seemed to me that Laura-Janes description of the desire for purpose and fulfillment is like a perfect description of the “ego “ or what defines a separate self. Orienting toward a goal/project/purpose, and thinking it’s “someone” doing it. When one project is over, it needs a new project to stay alive. Animals (as far as I know) don’t need projects to feel fillfilled and content. Satisfying hunger and play doesn’t count as a project somehow. Oh, and not saying it’s wrong.. it took 55 years of living following goals and finding there’s no lasting fulfillment and it’s onto “next”. Energy for Next seemed to run out.
Yes...exactly. The need for goals, fulfilment, purpose IS the person, you could say. There is no person who wants fulfilment. The need for fulfilment is the energy of the individual. That's just how that setup works. And yes, as you say, the energy for next, for more, can just seemingly run out. Apparently. There is nothing to attain. Nothing to get. Nothing to realise. This is it.
So why did the individual energy form in the fist place. If “this” is already and whole and complete, why was apparent separation formed in the first place. Maybe to experience something other than perfection.
Nonduality also leads to complacency, sooner or later your gonna have to go back to being an individual if you want to make a living. Being egoless is great if your a monk or if your parents take care of you. But if you have to make a living or go to school, than you don’t really have a choice in contracting back into a individual
@@3william714 absolutely and there is a lot of absolutist sounding language not to police how people talk but to say desire is gone or ego is gone I dont see it that way its more like not being controlled by the ego anymore or nearly as much and its not being controlled as much by desires you can do it if you want but your not doing something compulsively anymore, so saying that there are no compulsions would be better than saying that there are no desires. I have had these awakening tastes not the full thing and yes I am aware of the Non-dual no one gets anything because there inst anyone here shtick... but from where I was sitting during those couple days of this awakening taste, I still noticed a self idea and self contentedness not narcissism but self attention. Two would be that there was way less disappointment or general dissatisfaction but obviously I was happy to see my mom when she came to see me and I was anticipating my happiness, its not like you stop having emotions and you just become a catatonic vegetable where your just lying down while the house burns down XD and yet you can feel at peace and be ok without things going your way. I dont like this common language being used in Non-Dualism I feel like more concrete language would get rid of the miss perceptions that come from a place of not having had these glimpses when it doesn't immortalize you or make you stop existing but hey maybe I am misunderstanding something could be.
Laura-Jane, in a way, phrases what many might think or feel in a very good, very eloquent way. It is very, very understandable - to me at least - where she comes from with her questions and arguments. Many I would propaply ask or say myself in a sitiation / a talk like this. There are differences, of course - one beeing that, in my life, personally, alot of "drive" has fallen away - but I understand it to be different perspectives of the same thing or maybe different steps on a ladder. (Although ladder might be a unprecise analogy, because there is not one step "higher" or "lower" than another.) Izzy, like always, thank you very much. Laura-Jane, thank you very much, also. This was quite entertaining. Much love.
Wonderful conversation, so honest, thank you! It ended with "it's not supposed to make sense..." but question arises: what if it makes sense? Both the no one experience no thing and the resistence energy towards it by being so invested in the story and being the experiencer. They both make perfect sense. What does one do when caught between two polarizing energies, not exactly feeling part of the nothing energy but resonating with it and not being entirely able to let go of an identity which one doesn't believe is real?
Hi Clarence! Well, nothing actually makes sense. What is does not experience or know itself. It just is simply and naturally itself. So there is not a "no-one experience of no-thing". There is no experience at all. That would be part of the dream. That 'I am here' and 'I am experiencing life'. There are no two polarizing energies. You could say there is only one energy. But that is already saying too much. All that appears to be happening is boundless energy appearing as everything. But there is not an actual "thing" called energy which appears as all things. This so-called energy is only apparent. So of course there is no-one who is caught between two polarizing energies. No-one is me-ing and being. This just doesn't happen. All there is, is being...you could say. Nothing makes sense. That...you could say...is the freedom. For no-one. It would be the personal experience that this has to be made sense of. All the best and much love, Izzy 🥰❤
@@thisboundlessfreedom Thank you for your reply, Issy! Clearly, I am still trying to work it out when there is no I nor it nor any working out to be done. The freedom you speak of sounds lovely. What is feeling stuck is all in the head, the apparant head, the appearance of the mind. But what power an appearance of a self gives to it, even if it is apparant power. If there is no me-ing or being, there is no leap to be made. OK! Thank you again. All the best and much love to "you" too! Clarence (the one energy appearing as) PS. Is this what happened to Prince or was it only because of contractual reasons.
@@clarencehui9448 no worries :) nice to connect with you! Yes...no leap to be made. Nothing to be realised. Simply this. Already everything. With regards to Prince...I didn't even know about his apparent awakening...so can't really comment. But of course, there is no separate Prince. Simply this.
@@thisboundlessfreedom Don't worry about Prince, it was half a joke. For a few years he named himself as the Artist formerly known as Prince, I don't think it has anything to do with apparent awakening. I just felt like calling myself "Boundless Energy appearing as Clarence", but that would be stretching it.❤
Reminds me of a dream i had in which i was told, you're just living in a dream, there is no you and there is no one else. I woke up and it was 2A.M. in the morning ... is that what this is?
Well yes, there is no ‘you’ nor anyone else. There is no one. So there is of course no one ‘living in a dream’ either. The apparent person is the dream. The dream that never happens. All the best! ♥️
31:27 What is not easy to notice about death and life is that both are concepts known by THIS (which IS only *me/you*). If "you" were an object, even a living organism like a human being, you could not possibly know you were alive because you would BE that. The reason you can know something called life, or something called death, is because you are something *else* to which those objects/ideas are evident. That "something else" is just you, the one who believes they are traveling through a thing called life/the world in a body called [your name here].
I once had a dream that I was speaking to my friend about... having a dream... they replied ... how do you know your not dreaming now? I said 'of course I know I'm not dreaming'. They said, how do you know that? At this point I got annoyed and replied, 'I know when I'm not dreaming, of course I know that'. When I woke up, I felt I couldn't trust that I was truly now awake.
@@Akash_heard this comment seems dissonant, unless its sarcasm, even if there are no selves completing suicide from where you are standing there is still an obvious reason why it is in fact tragic. That is all don't discard this sense of being a person in a body thats in a world away, just because things are more ineffable than ever, because that would be a mistake, after all you can still taste chocolate right?
39:50 Unlike most of these "THIS" disseminators, IZZY has some genuine knowledge. Hopefully at some point the THIS that she is will realize that saying "I'm not saying this" is said by the "I" that THIS believes is dead 😂. If that happens, it would be cool to see.
Well...in the end all of this is conceptual mumbo jumbo! These words are not actually pointing to anything. But it could be said that all there is, is unconditional love. And that cannot be explained. There is no reason for that. It just is what it is. Everything is whole and complete. Perfect. Nothing needs to be added or taken away.
And unconditional love is the natural reality...so to speak. I have not discovered this other "state" of unconditional love. It is perfectly natural and doesn't need to be created or realised by a separate someone. By seeking it, it appears hidden...lost...unsolved. When really, it is not a mystery at all. It is not hidden. Not lost. Not in the future. And the apparent seeking of it, is also it. Also unconditional love, appearing as seeking.
Just a great intelligent open minded conversation between two mates. Thanks
This is lovely! Thank you David 💝🌸♥️
100% resonant, wonderful, simple, childlike, freedom speaking to itself, lovely
I appreciate how you, Izzy, really tried to answer as best you could. I followed you and appreciate the effort and honesty❤
I really love the format here of 2 friends just talking...
A funny conversation between calm and settled and no one with a searching, frantic, asking, agitation. Between a person and a non person!
❤❤❤
no both are people why you gotta delineate between the two your just elevating her and thats not the best thing. She seems like she has had some realization or insight but she is still obviously human we all are, death is a massacre because no one escapes it.
'This is heaven' hit me in the most wonderful way 🧡
This is it....what will be, will be .... :)
Much love Jim!
When the me/I/ego/self BRIEFLY & mysteriously dissolved here, what was left here was a kind of impersonal, indescribable me or aliveness in which none of the personal "why/how/what/when/where" questions remained & life was suddenly free, happy, light, fun, easy and BEAUTIFUL beyond words & it was mysteriously seen that there is only happening or happenings - that no one nor no thing is "doing"...just automatic happening! So, I/this went out to ride city busses & see what total freedom feels like in action. This is a long story from the past but the difference between being a separate me/ego and having no me/ego was stark and indescribable except to say the freedom and joy was EXTREME when the ego/me was briefly gone. I'm back to being a troubled Seeker but will never forget the amazing difference that the one time loss of a 'me' produced over here.
Omg I love both of you! ❤ also enjoying the contrast between Laura-Jane's straight hair and angular features and Izzy's curly hair and round face 😍😁 Both lovely!
♥️♥️
Really great to listen to the clarity and uncompromising message
🥰❤❤
Verry joyfull , thanks to both of you , thanks to Izzy Cloke that i just discover ! WOW !
❤
😊♥️
It seemed to me that Laura-Janes description of the desire for purpose and fulfillment is like a perfect description of the “ego “ or what defines a separate self. Orienting toward a goal/project/purpose, and thinking it’s “someone” doing it. When one project is over, it needs a new project to stay alive. Animals (as far as I know) don’t need projects to feel fillfilled and content. Satisfying hunger and play doesn’t count as a project somehow. Oh, and not saying it’s wrong.. it took 55 years of living following goals and finding there’s no lasting fulfillment and it’s onto “next”. Energy for Next seemed to run out.
Yes...exactly. The need for goals, fulfilment, purpose IS the person, you could say. There is no person who wants fulfilment. The need for fulfilment is the energy of the individual. That's just how that setup works. And yes, as you say, the energy for next, for more, can just seemingly run out. Apparently. There is nothing to attain. Nothing to get. Nothing to realise. This is it.
@@thisboundlessfreedom 🤗
So why did the individual energy form in the fist place. If “this” is already and whole and complete, why was apparent separation formed in the first place. Maybe to experience something other than perfection.
Nonduality also leads to complacency, sooner or later your gonna have to go back to being an individual if you want to make a living. Being egoless is great if your a monk or if your parents take care of you. But if you have to make a living or go to school, than you don’t really have a choice in contracting back into a individual
@@3william714 absolutely and there is a lot of absolutist sounding language not to police how people talk but to say desire is gone or ego is gone I dont see it that way its more like not being controlled by the ego anymore or nearly as much and its not being controlled as much by desires you can do it if you want but your not doing something compulsively anymore, so saying that there are no compulsions would be better than saying that there are no desires. I have had these awakening tastes not the full thing and yes I am aware of the Non-dual no one gets anything because there inst anyone here shtick... but from where I was sitting during those couple days of this awakening taste, I still noticed a self idea and self contentedness not narcissism but self attention. Two would be that there was way less disappointment or general dissatisfaction but obviously I was happy to see my mom when she came to see me and I was anticipating my happiness, its not like you stop having emotions and you just become a catatonic vegetable where your just lying down while the house burns down XD and yet you can feel at peace and be ok without things going your way. I dont like this common language being used in Non-Dualism I feel like more concrete language would get rid of the miss perceptions that come from a place of not having had these glimpses when it doesn't immortalize you or make you stop existing but hey maybe I am misunderstanding something could be.
I enjoyed your open-minded and candid conversation.
Thank you! 😄♥️
Lovely!
I do hope there will be another one of these!
Me too! 😀
BOOOOOOOOOM 💥 just thisssssssssss 💗
What a beautiful spiritual peptalk this was. 😂 Lovely! ♥️
😂😂 thanks Nieck!! ♥️🥰
Great chat!
❤❤❤
Laura-Jane, in a way, phrases what many might think or feel in a very good, very eloquent way. It is very, very understandable - to me at least - where she comes from with her questions and arguments. Many I would propaply ask or say myself in a sitiation / a talk like this. There are differences, of course - one beeing that, in my life, personally, alot of "drive" has fallen away - but I understand it to be different perspectives of the same thing or maybe different steps on a ladder. (Although ladder might be a unprecise analogy, because there is not one step "higher" or "lower" than another.) Izzy, like always, thank you very much. Laura-Jane, thank you very much, also. This was quite entertaining. Much love.
Much love!
💗
❤❤❤❤❤
❤️❤️
Wonderful conversation, so honest, thank you! It ended with "it's not supposed to make sense..." but question arises: what if it makes sense? Both the no one experience no thing and the resistence energy towards it by being so invested in the story and being the experiencer. They both make perfect sense. What does one do when caught between two polarizing energies, not exactly feeling part of the nothing energy but resonating with it and not being entirely able to let go of an identity which one doesn't believe is real?
Hi Clarence!
Well, nothing actually makes sense. What is does not experience or know itself. It just is simply and naturally itself. So there is not a "no-one experience of no-thing". There is no experience at all. That would be part of the dream. That 'I am here' and 'I am experiencing life'.
There are no two polarizing energies. You could say there is only one energy. But that is already saying too much. All that appears to be happening is boundless energy appearing as everything. But there is not an actual "thing" called energy which appears as all things. This so-called energy is only apparent.
So of course there is no-one who is caught between two polarizing energies. No-one is me-ing and being. This just doesn't happen. All there is, is being...you could say.
Nothing makes sense. That...you could say...is the freedom. For no-one. It would be the personal experience that this has to be made sense of.
All the best and much love,
Izzy 🥰❤
@@thisboundlessfreedom Thank you for your reply, Issy! Clearly, I am still trying to work it out when there is no I nor it nor any working out to be done. The freedom you speak of sounds lovely.
What is feeling stuck is all in the head, the apparant head, the appearance of the mind. But what power an appearance of a self gives to it, even if it is apparant power.
If there is no me-ing or being, there is no leap to be made. OK!
Thank you again. All the best and much love to "you" too!
Clarence (the one energy appearing as)
PS. Is this what happened to Prince or was it only because of contractual reasons.
@@clarencehui9448 no worries :) nice to connect with you! Yes...no leap to be made. Nothing to be realised. Simply this. Already everything. With regards to Prince...I didn't even know about his apparent awakening...so can't really comment. But of course, there is no separate Prince. Simply this.
@@thisboundlessfreedom Don't worry about Prince, it was half a joke. For a few years he named himself as the Artist formerly known as Prince, I don't think it has anything to do with apparent awakening. I just felt like calling myself "Boundless Energy appearing as Clarence", but that would be stretching it.❤
@@clarencehui9448 haha! You can call yourself that if you like! 😂❤
Reminds me of a dream i had in which i was told, you're just living in a dream, there is no you and there is no one else. I woke up and it was 2A.M. in the morning ... is that what this is?
Well yes, there is no ‘you’ nor anyone else. There is no one. So there is of course no one ‘living in a dream’ either. The apparent person is the dream. The dream that never happens. All the best! ♥️
@@thisboundlessfreedom I'm coming to your next zoom call, i have so many questions lol i hope that's okay
31:27 What is not easy to notice about death and life is that both are concepts known by THIS (which IS only *me/you*). If "you" were an object, even a living organism like a human being, you could not possibly know you were alive because you would BE that.
The reason you can know something called life, or something called death, is because you are something *else* to which those objects/ideas are evident.
That "something else" is just you, the one who believes they are traveling through a thing called life/the world in a body called [your name here].
i really don't get it but it's fun to listen
The grain of flour realised it turned into a loaf of bread.
I once had a dream that I was speaking to my friend about... having a dream... they replied ... how do you know your not dreaming now?
I said 'of course I know I'm not dreaming'.
They said, how do you know that?
At this point I got annoyed and replied,
'I know when I'm not dreaming, of course I know that'.
When I woke up, I felt I couldn't trust that I was truly now awake.
Be careful though, when Lisa Cairns started sharing many did commit suicide..
That’s because she’s an android passing for human
Not heard that . I did a quick search and nothing showed up - do you have any more information on these incidents?
There's no one to commit suicide. If it happens, it happens, but nothing happens. Remember that is "simply this"... ❤🙏
@@Akash_heard this comment seems dissonant, unless its sarcasm, even if there are no selves completing suicide from where you are standing there is still an obvious reason why it is in fact tragic. That is all don't discard this sense of being a person in a body thats in a world away, just because things are more ineffable than ever, because that would be a mistake, after all you can still taste chocolate right?
🙊🙉🙈❤
39:50 Unlike most of these "THIS" disseminators, IZZY has some genuine knowledge. Hopefully at some point the THIS that she is will realize that saying "I'm not saying this" is said by the "I" that THIS believes is dead 😂.
If that happens, it would be cool to see.
Is this quite literally just ..... a dream?
At 10:00 you say “this is unconditional love” what do you mean by that? Isn’t love just conceptual mumbo jumbo? Why bring in that word?
Well...in the end all of this is conceptual mumbo jumbo! These words are not actually pointing to anything.
But it could be said that all there is, is unconditional love. And that cannot be explained. There is no reason for that. It just is what it is. Everything is whole and complete. Perfect. Nothing needs to be added or taken away.
And unconditional love is the natural reality...so to speak. I have not discovered this other "state" of unconditional love. It is perfectly natural and doesn't need to be created or realised by a separate someone.
By seeking it, it appears hidden...lost...unsolved. When really, it is not a mystery at all. It is not hidden. Not lost. Not in the future. And the apparent seeking of it, is also it. Also unconditional love, appearing as seeking.
It must be fun talking to a wall.