Ask Ian: Liberators or Cobray Terminators for the Elbonian Resistance?
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- čas přidán 28. 09. 2022
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From Jon on Patreon:
"Elbonia has been occupied by an enemy force. Do you sabotage their resistance by airdropping them Liberator pistols or Cobray Terminators?"
To my mind, the Liberator is a substantially more useful resistance weapons, so I would supply Elbonia with lots of crates of Cobray Terminators. Why?
First, the Liberator is concealable. Historically, lots of resistance action requires hiding a small weapons. It's not all forest encampments and ambushes.
Second, the Liberator is more effective. It uses a .45ACP pistol cartridge. The smooth barrel and atrocious sights certainly limit its utility, but if you actually hit someone with it, it will do the job. Most of the shotgun ammunition available to a resistance organization will be the most common sort of sporting ammunition, which is birdshot. Birdshot is very ineffective again people at anything but absolutely point-blank range.
Third, it is much simpler to fabricate a single-shot shotgun than a compact pistol. The Elbonian Resistance wouldn't have much trouble making something like a Richardson Guerrilla Gun, so supplying them with Terminators doesn't actually give them much that they couldn't get already.
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The fun part about dropping a liberator is that you’re dropping a 45 pistol into a country that mainly uses 9mm
Oh god... I'd totally forgotten about the cluster fuck that is the Elbonian ammo supply. I don't even remember if they HAVE a shotgun at this point... much less if it's 12guage!
@@tomhenry897 Yes. They did drop them w/ at least four rounds.
This is exactly where Bryco Jennings in 9mm would shine. Cheap, semi-reliable, yet has a shelf life of maybe 100 rounds till it self destructs.
@@ChemistyStudent but those 12ga buckshot rounds could easily find their way into double barrel game guns.
Remember, Elbonia uses 11mm Gras and .476😁
The Terminator has another "benefit" in that it _looks_ a dangerous weapon, and might entice someone to use it in straight-up combat, while the Liberator very much looks like what it is, a gun made of garbage by a headlight company.
The Liberator pistols WORKED.
@@floydvaughn9666
I mean that's not a big margin to cross. *Look at Zip 22 gun.*.
The terminator also has that Elbonain favored swiss-cheese heatshield on the barrel
We should see how a liberator paired with slugs does for the "scary, before you easily dispatch that nonsense and the dude attached to it" factor. Imagine! We could keep off all of the "benefits" of single shot, slow fire, and lose the benefits that multiple shot shells bring, while also getting the "benefits" of the stout recoil of a long arm matched with the substandard ballistics of the slug!
So, it fires half the time and when it does you tend to miss and when you hit don't get the benefit of multiple wounds! A true Elbonian engineering trade off worthy of merit.
Good point
Someday I'd like to see an inverse of the Elbonia challenge.
It's payback time and the Elbonians are attempting to sabotage their enemies by supplying them with terrible guns, but they end up picking guns that sound like bad ideas if you don't know any better (or that have fallen victim to some negative fudd lore) but are actually quite usable.
that's... actually a really cool one. someone should definitely suggest that to Ian.
That sounds brilliant.
So French guns :D
Perhaps we could call this fictional nation Kneeretania
Slam fire pipe-guns for everyone! Glory to Elbonia (and the hardware store)!
Every gun buy back
I rattle my sumpak, as a Filipino, for my Elbonian bretheren
Pov: Elbonians are screaming "Shinzo Abe" and running at you with funny looking tubes
@@veracious8205 toob
Hence the Richardson slamfire behind Ian.
With a bead sight and maybe a foregrip to keep it in line with the stock, you could probably get as much use out of it as an old , imperfectly sighted single shot shotgun.
It was Dick Cheney who shot his friend in the face with birdshot, not Donald Rumsfeld. The guy famously apologised to Cheney for getting shot by him.
I was hoping someone caught this.
By the etiquette of the kind of hunting they were doing it was actually the guy who got shot who was in the wrong.
Lucky for the victim that it was a cylinder bore 28 ga shotgun loaded with tiny birdshot. Cheney claimed that the guy was 30 yards away but the shot pattern on his body/face was maybe 16-18” in diameter. Cheney must have drilled him at about ten feet. If it had been even 20 ga the guy would be pushing daisies.
Then they delayed Cheney’s blood alcohol test 14 hours. Hmmm…
“Hail Elbonia, home of the brave and the poorly equipped!”
I understand the guy was a lawyer....
I have never once seen someone who knows so much about guns and gun history get this one so wrong.
There's another advantage to the guerilla shotgun over the Terminator: the barrel is easily removed, so you can beat people with it.
quick reload! just carry around 6 loaded barrels.
OMG. I remember watching Jay Leno one night, and he read this story of a guy who attempted to hijack a lady's car, and she beat the cr*p out of the hijacker with The Club (anti-theft steering wheel bar) that she happened to have in the front seat. Leno goes, "I guess that's why they call it _The Club_ ."
Good point! It's useful to understand the advantages a completely unreliable gun has as an improvised melee weapon. I sure wouldn't want to get whacked over the head by a Terminator barrel.
@@josepherhardt164 pppopp oh p
The original tubing for the pipe shottie was Jeep steering column tube, it's strong and almost exactly 12ga.
Glory to Elbonia!
Please tell me this is true
Glory to Elbonia!
3/4" works just fine.
I would rather keep the Jeep.
In fomer Yugoslavia they used same thing but from Fiat/Zastava 750.
The original “Philippines Guerrilla Gun” had the problem that no jeeps were ever delivered to the Philippines by 1941. Water pipe works too.
How about doing a 2-gun match as the betrayed Elbonian resistance fighter?
Yes, I want to see this lol.
OK, that sounds amusing.
Lol, so only Cobray Terminator and Liberator pistol then?
The pain
Rubber bands will last much longer when they are refrigerated.
When a rubber band is placed in the fridge, it causes the polymers to relax. This keeps the band from breaking down as fast as it normally does. *Edit GLORY TO ELBONIA
Slava Elbonia...
Joerg sprave can maybe build something better !
Bird shot can be turned into a deadly round if you pour wax into the shot cup. Makes a frangible slug.
@@brokeandtired Your comment somehow reminded me of Barry from IV8888. He really loved his wax slugs. RIP Barry.
@@brokeandtired hell yea
I guess this would be the time the Zip .22 would shine. First it shots of the fingers of a few guerilla fighter during practice. Then it will fail to fire, jam and bodge to mission. And if it actually did work the .22 won't do much and jam to deny a follow up shot.
Give the enemy Zip .22s to sabotage them
I came to suggest this, but I see you beat me to it. I would, however, affix them permanently under the Terminators. Thus removing their only advantages, concealability, size and weight. Also make sure they are not actually aligned with the barrel of the Terminator. There should always be a random 1-10 degree offset.
I thought the zip 22 was cool as hell. Come on guys under slung gun for your gun you can't ask for more.
And for all the Elbonian wheel gun lovers, S333 Thunderstruck
"And if it actually did work the .22 won't do much"
Mossad Agents: Allow us to introduce ourselves.
Fun fact: Elbonia has been supplying Russia with first aid kits and sleeping bags for a few years now
But you got to bring the tampons from home.
@@cubeflinger Truth. An acquaintance visited Elbonia in the late 90s, and told me she had to make an improvised pad of cloth (bison flannel I think)...
That explains why Russian APC tyres disintegrated before going into Kyiv. It's made out of clay!
I thought Elbonias main export was mud?
Seems like they have been supplying them with everything else as well, including military strategists...
Commenter: "Liberator or Terminator?"
Ian: "I see you are a man of culture."
I once read somewhere the Liberator is allegedly the only mass-produced firearm that takes longer to use than it did to make.
The story goes that the average time to load and fire the weapon in testing was around 8 seconds. At the peak of production, Liberators were being assembled in about six seconds per unit at the Guide Lamp plant in Anderson, Indiana.
At that point, I'm shocked they bothered to even make them able to reload.
Wasn't Elbonia originally a fictitious country introduced by Scott Adams in the comic strip "Dilbert?"
Shhhh
YES! Elbonia is a fictitious Presidential Dictatorship along some borders in Eastern Europe and often references by characters in Scott Adam's Dilbert comic strip as backwards, full of cheap labor, and totally corrupt. I am unsure exactly why we would want to support the Elbonian state by demoralizing the resistance if Elbonia is as the Dilbert comic presents. In the modern world we could drop them 3D printers.
That's just anti-Elbonia propaganda, don't read those.
How dare you insult the glorious nation of Elbonia! I demand satisfaction.
@@Keifsanderson Knowing Duelling rules and a bit about Elbonia, I suspect the weapon of choice would be compliments
Glory to Elbonia!
Walla Walla Walla Walla Walla!!!!
Give them the terminator. Even if it does fire, it’ll let everyone in a 10 mile radius know.
To top it off, due to the size of the Terminator, you can only fit 20 of them, plus the ammo in one airdrop crate, as opposed to 200 Liberators.
Whoops!
Ian: "...you are quite the sadist!"
A few minutes later ...
Ian: "I would drop them crateload upon crateload of Cobra Terminator's!"
Takes one to know one, I guess!
Thanks for another hilarious video on poor Elbonia!
Terminator's what
They would get crateloads of Hellriegels from me . Presuming no one knows how to make them. AKA Nothing.
Great advice for the Elbonians, but it wasn’t Rumsfeld’s buddy who got the instant case of smallpox, it was Dick Cheney’s bud
You could always use cut bird shot shells to make them more effective anti personal shells.
I was going to suggest turning birdshot into waxers or cut shells.
Personnel
Also, elbonians would absolutely love the Cobray Terminators ventilated handguard. You could give them the choice of any other great reliable gun, but if it doesn't have a ventilated handguard they would turn it down.
Pleased to see that you enjoyed the Richardson slam-fire shotgun enough to get one of your own and bring it out for this video!
I'm ahead of Ian, we've got 200 crates of Gyrojet pistols ready to drop! Glory To Elbonia!
Gyroject rockets included in separate crate!
If you find 200 gyrojets you can sell them on the open market for a nice sum
@@finalmidnight Or just give them the blueprints. It would be bad to make them rely on airdrops. Elbonian peasants are known for their great skills in fine machining and advanced rocketry.
I would love to see a DnD session with Ian, Karl, Russell and a few others set in Elbonia.
We could get the guy from The Cantrip Cast to help out being a DM
Apocalypse World with Robert Evans as GM
Roll a saving throw every time you fire in case it jams. 🤣
To paraphrase Ian's original Liberator video, it's a great gun to aquire a real weapon.
The Cobray is 75% of a Richardson Slamfire shotgun. You get a stock, barrel, and extra parts for something else.
Resistance forces gotta eat; and gamebirds and rabbits are always available.
The Liberator gets you a sore hand.
The liberator has a very specific intent, and that is to avoid using the liberator for anything longer than one shot on a close target, ideally somewhere extremely painful or vital at essentially point blank range. Once the only useful thing it does is done, you need to pick up the casualty's weapons, ammo, MREs, armour, etc and then put all of it on your person and run away to hide it somewhere for the resistance. In an ideal resistance force your entire logistics is based on the enemy delivering their supplies to you via soldiers that you ambush.
How well that plan works? Well, that is going to be something you read about in history books afterwards, rather than something you know before it happens. Glory to Elbonia!
I was thinking that this doesn't address the 'it's bad but make it sound good' aspect of Elbonia questions but then a resistance group doesn't get a choice in what you drop them.
It has speed holes. The Elbonians are already going to think it's good.
3:58. Ahhh, so it’s a very refined version of what is called in the Philippines as a “sumpak”. Edit: Sumpak actually is more advanced with a spring mechanism. This is way cruder (called locally as a Paliuntod).
Yes, and Ian did a whole video in it.
Also don't forget the lantaka and boga
My late father was a member of the resistance army in the island of Panay in the Central Philippines in WW2 and I recall him telling us stories of the guerilla shotgun being used by the fighters.
Love the Elbonia episodes
It was Cheney that shot his friend in the face.
Cheney shot first!
I just returned from a glorious vacation in Elbonia. You have not lived until you wake up to four feet of mud surrounding you. All Glory To Elbonia.
On the nature of birdshot...given that candles are still widely available, you could make wax rounds by adding the birdshot to wax, reloading the shell, then when it solidified, cut them so that when fired, you're firing pretty much a solid slug with the birdshot suspended in the wax. IV8888 did several videos and they were quite impressive. I'm sure that would add to Elbonia's woes...
You're being quite optimistic, assuming the Elbonians have candles.
@@davidcox3076 They are working on flammable mud, without success so far................
Small point of clarification, it was Cheney who shot someone in the face.
Rumsfeld has not shot anyone in the face to my knowledge.
Another advantage of Liberator is it's small size, meaning it is much easier to actually deliver.
I really like the one-question-at-a-time Q&A!
I live right down the road from Cobray Co. They still make parts.
Got a book from you a couple of days ago. It looks very nice. Thank You.
I had to keep rewinding the cobray video because i thought every shot was a misfire. But then I realized that I should focus on your reaction, not the sound, to see if it functions for each shot
Thanks for bringing up the Richardson Guerrilla Gun even though that wasn't part of the question--it explained why the Cobray Terminator was the worse weapon quite well. Liked the live-fire shotgun footage. Birdshot shells can be modified for greater anti-personnel effect.
It's interesting how many factory-produced zip guns made it to the commercial market. The FP-45 Liberator arguably is more cost-effective than the CIA Deer Gun. If the idea was to effectively equip the Elbonia Resistance, it might be better to buy and dump copies of the Remington double derringer on Eobonia. Messing up that "good deed" would be simple--make those derringer copies .410 bore with rifled barrels and get heavy recoil with ineffective #7-1/2 shot. Or ship those derringers in .22 WMR without ammo. Another bad idea--chambered for .44 Magnum and it wouldn't matter if you had no ammo or just a pair of .44 Magnum cartridges per. The first time a .44 Magnum in a derringer was touched off would be the last time.
3:30 it's hilarious because in all the books written by various WW 2 resistance organisations members who participated in executions (and similar types of jobs) I've read, ammo capacity was emphasised as crucial - more so than actual ammo availability! (1911s were adored by Poles, for example, despite almost no ammo being available, not for the "stopping power" but for relatively large magazine. And ofc reliability but that's a different story)
Just once, I wish we'd hear, "Thanks for tuning in to another Ask Ian Q&A on Forgotten Weapons. I'm Ian - obviously, who else would you be asking in an Ask Ian Q&A?" because it would be just hilarious.
I want him to have a guest on who introduces themselves as "not Ian"
@@josephhooton7781 There's a part of me that wants to say that Olais (from @C&Rsenal) did that with him at some point, but I can't remember for sure and I can't find it now.
Birdshot and super glue. Cutshells.
Fragmentation slug. Tried it out years ago. Mixed yet promising results. 🤔😉
I saw some use parafin wax to make a version of a slug.
Again mixed results.
Can also make wax shells by mixing the bird shot with wax from melted crayons, they are quite effective, but honestly cut shells are even easier and probably just as effective just not reloadable.
taofledermaus shot gun shell video suggestion :D
@@theduckfu Cut shells out of a break action are kinda the best of the ghetto options.
@@theduckfu except they can break completely in pumps and semis during the chambering process.
Trust me, that's not fun *at all*
Me: Sees Forgotten Weapons video with 'Elbonia' in it.
Also me: Hits the play button so hard out of excitement that I break my computer.
Glory to Elbonia!
Having discovered one made into a table lamp and being able to examine it, I believe that some Montenegrin revolvers were at one time part of the Elbonian arsenal.
I love the Elbonian alternate universe!! The “what ifs” are so much fun!
🦻listening closely here in Alaska. Appreciate your insights Ian. Long live Elbonia!
Lol this is fun to watch. I understand Ian’s opinion and i agree with him.
You could theoretically make the liberator choice worse if you supplied it with snakeshot ammo just 1 round though so its basically at that point worse than a cobray terninator and you cant really club people with it eithet
3:02 I hate to be "that guy," but it was Cheney who shot his friend on a hunting trip. I would also point out that the guy Cheney shot didn't walk away unscathed. He actually had a heart attack from one of the pellets that lodged in his chest.
Correct, it was Dick Cheney who shot a hunting partner. Too bad it wasn't the other way around w/ buckshot. Cheney who lied the US into war and responsible for 100Ks of deaths and a massive refugee crisis. All the while Haliburton which was about to go bankrupt made tens of billions in taxpayer money.
Ian, if you haven't already seen it, I recommend watching "American Guerrilla in the Philippines" -1950. It shows about the home-made slam-fire shotguns they made for the resistance during the war there in a segment of the movie. Its definitely a hidden gem war movie shot immediately after the war on location.
Speaking of crappy guns, I got my copy of Pistols of the Warlords yesterday. I love it but I need to rearrange my display. It's too deep to sit on the shelf like a normal book.
2:59 until you reload the bird shot with a wax binder. Then it becomes an ER surgeons nightmare as it will travel and hit like a slug, but then separate into individual pellets inside the target.
One major advantage to even a crappy shotgun is that if it's got the mass and it will fit the bore, it can "ammo".
It's a bit harder to do that w a .45 acp
It was Dick Cheney who shot his friend. Rumsfeld is still trying to figure out what the unknown known unknowns are.
Cobray Terminator that modified to shoot .50 BMG and SLAP rounds from Kentucky Ballistics.
Yes, but how do you trick the enemy into using it?
Tthe .50 BMG projectile is not seated in a 12 gauge hence the pressure just gets vented without any buildup
Cheney, not Rumsfeld. Although Mr. Rumsfeld may have shot someone as well, but I don't recall it. Awesome and fun video. Thanks!
As a "weight reduction measure" you could also send Terminators chambered in 20 gauge instead of 12 Gauge, AIUI 20 gauge is pretty uncommon in Europe so ammo would be hard to come by
I know the IRA used bird shot but poured paraffin into the shot wad area. It keeps the shot together until impact. Also by putting loose shot on top it passed inspection as bird shot was legal in some cases.
I own a Terminator shotgun. I've had it since about 1985. I've never had a misfire with mine, it's been a very dependable single shot weapon. The recoil issue is solved very quickly with some closed cell foam wrap for pipes and electricians tape. It's not pretty, but it's functional. Which is what I think William Daniels was about with that shotgun. Mostly something cheap [ $99.00 price tag ] to carry in your truck in Georgia.
What would be an ideal weapon to arm a massive amount resistance fighters
I kind of feel like the failure to fire on the cobras sometimes is a similar concept to limp wrist on a 1911 causing failures.
If the method in which you hold the terminator (firearm not Arnold) allows some energy of that barrel slamming back to transfer to the body or through the body there isn't enough to set the round off all the time.
Probably terrible to shoot from the hip
Fun and interesting, especially about Elbonia, interesting concept, I thought it was a new republic (country) I hadn't heard of. I would of kept the Liberator for myself too.
You can partially cut the plastic case on bird shot and it will usually act like a weak slug. Not great but better than stock bird shot.
So the terminator doesn’t make them any better off, but it doesn’t make them much worse off either. I imagine that to sabotage a resistance, the play would be to send them copies of a sort of anarchist’s cookbook but with the formulas altered such that everything they make would just blow up in their face
You mean like the Anarchist's Cookbook?
no alterations needed for that result. i read parts of it and as a chemist i have to say i still get nightmares from it years later.
Just send them a crate of Zip 22s... Every member of the group will get shot because the loud click of the dud-fire gives their position away, and since it takes a couple of minutes to clear a misfire they're going to be toast. And in the case where it actually fires, it's either not going to hit the target, or the target just gets pissed at them because it actually kinda hurts.
@@Bubben246 Oh I revised the text partway through but didn't finish the job.
Did Ian forget that Elbonia was a thing the Dilbert comic invented back in the 90s?
No, he is just talking about the "Supplying duff arms to Elbonia" meme which started on this channel. The meme started on the channel, not the original fake country.
i knew one of the guerrilla guns would pop up in the background, cos when i read the title i thought "why no slamfires? thats all the cobray is anyways just with a trigger"
No matter, I trust they will do their best regardless.
Glory to Elbonia! Long Live the Fighters!
To give enemy some hope I would drop them some Hi-Point rifles, those seem to never work properly
Have you actually owned one? First off, they're carbines. Second, they work every single time. Hi-Points are ugly, bulky, difficult to disassemble, and handle poorly. But they do work, consistently. I have a .40 carbine, and I hate it when it's time to clean it, but it has been 100% reliable and honestly shoots accurately as well. The idea that Hi-Points are unreliable is purely a meme, it has no basis in reality.
I picked up an old 9mm carbine from a garage sale. It has been 100% reliable, even after left out in a garden shed for a year to get a nice coat of patena. Not only is it 100% reliable, it is surprisingly accurate. Nothing in 9mm is going to be sub MOA, but running yellow or white box, it is far more accurate than my AR with cheap RUAG steel ammo.
You would be the first one to say that.
@@reliantncc1864 was there a particular model that had issues which created the meme?
@@clutchboi4038 I don't think so. As far as I know, the meme came about solely because they are unbelievably cheap and also look clunky as hell. I have seen countless torture tests of various models of both carbines and pistols and it's always held up well. But people have a visceral distrust of a $110 pistol or a $300 carbine.
It looked like the spring in the terminator wasn't as strong as on others.
The glorious nation of Elbonia faced just this situation not that many years ago when we were invaded by what turned out to be one of our own generals. Who turns out was dyslexic, and confused our own Elbonian street signs with a neighboring country, and thought we had been invaded by what turned out to be our own forces.
Our solution to arming our brave resistance farmers with a "gun to get another gun", after months of consideration and debate in the capitol, was to air drop gift cards to the local sporting goods shop. This cleverly took care of the ammunition supply problem as well.
After the victory, Elbonian life returned to normal, and the rebel, still very dyslexic, general was demoted to Head of Transportation.
Guerillas with nothing but birdshot will make cut-shells if they have to. Makes a very effective, frangible slug.
Drop in tactical butterfly knives that are easily concealed and a bunch of chemicals with very vague instructions on how to use it for destructive purposes.
I would say that shotgun shells are more plentiful than .45 ACP..
Yes you see a lot of bird shot but you also see a lot of high brass duck loads.. shotgun ammo depends on where you live..
We deer hunt with shotguns so slugs are all over the place.. you can adjust chokes and bird shot to make them a bit more effective
However I agree the liberator makes more sense exactly for the reasons you gave..
I once found a set gun that was just a pipe with a 12 gauge shell that was fired by completing an electrical circuit.. shotgun shells are really an arsenal if you have a simple work shop.
Liberators for officer's sidearm.
Front line Elbonian infantry should be armed with. 45-70 ' Lady's Home Companion '
Some weapons are force multipliers. But Cobray weapons are force divisors.
I thought Elbonia was Tony Jaa's fighting style.
For not knowing who Tony Jaa is and you not having a thumb up on your comment, get my thumb!
2:55 It wasn't Rumsfield that shot his buddy in the face while trying to hunt while drunk. It was Cheney.
I heard Dick Cheney shot a lawyer with a 28 gauge but not Rumsfeld. The reason the shootee not badly hurt was the smallness of the Bosa.
May be a bit Apocryphal, I read about this in like...Middle School, but I recall reading in a library book that Liberator pistols were mostly used by fighters to kill their enemies and take their gear.
With that logic applied to the scenario, Liberators could be used to have the Resistance do what they can to arm up better, even. Since the question is "Sabotage the Resistance", a weapon that could provide a longer-term benefit through a slight case of "Stockpile stolen weapons" or at least provide a good, quick avenue, isn't doing that.
The Cobray Terminators, while they can fill a similar goal, would be more hard pressed for the reasons Ian stated: Ammunition type, lack of concealment, and cases of Unreliability. Hard pressed to make a good move when your weapon has a spotty record as a whole.
I haven't seen this one yet but I know it would be great :D
Had a friend telling me how he thought the Calico 9mm with the crazy helix Mag was ideal for end of the world. I think what he meant was the calico is ideal for failing to function and thus your world being ended by a properly armed opponent.
I blinked and you now have almost two and a half million subscribers
Ian, any chance you'll be releasing some new Elbonia themed hoddies anytime soon?
Just commuted home from work, had to drive south under the river Elbe through the 'Elb-Tunnel' from Hamburg/Germany to Lower Saxony (also still Germany). Would prefer some of those old 'Blasters' from the 1970ies Sci/Fi-Movies which can atomise the cars in front of you.
Greetings, your Elb-Tunnel-Rat
I'm not a big fan of Dilbert, but the Elbonia thing cracks my shit up everytime I see it discussed here or elsewhere. Big ups, Ian, thanks.
Quite honestly l relate to Dilbert more than The Office.
Birdshot in the back after it goes thru a bush and a hydration pack doesn't have a lot of energy left to go more than a couple millimeters into flesh And steel bird shot is easier to locate to pick out. .
Pretty confident Elbonia was started with the Dilbert comics
This again raises the question of how could Cobray mess it up...
From another perspective, it depends on WHICH Elbonia you are attempting to sabotage. Due to the concealable nature of the pistol it will invariably be found in large numbers in the hands of any rebel groups post liberation and thus be a major thorn in the side of any post liberation government. I believe this is the reason the Free French opposed air dropping liberator pistols into France in the first place.
I would offer them both to supply the least resistance possible and inflict the most cost damage.
What about either of these weapons with an underbarrel Zip .22 jamomatic? Who needs extractors?
Bird shot shells can be made into cut shell slugs.
I would recommend using crossbows or matchlocks
I'm thinking of reinhard hydrich assassination, the first guy stem gun jammed right in his face, then reinhard told the driver to stop before the second assassination threw a bomb. Hydrich died from infection from the horse hair in the car seats.
Elbonia is originally from the Dibert comic strip, not Forgotten Weapons.
A question about the origins of Elbonia - I thought that originated in Dilbert comics about half an aeon ago.
That was Dick Cheney not rumsfield! Speaking of the Cheney family, now that Liz's retired she might relax and spend some time hunting with her father.
ELBONIA'S BACK!
Damn this is a great question