Jesus. first time viewing your channel. This was one of the best videos I have ever seen. It was short, not useless chatter. It stayed on topic to the point of razor-sharp accuracy. I am blown away. Pretalk with set goals, A quick "behind the curtain" viewing of construction. Then detailed results. I am simply blown away. Thank you so very much. Wish you the best...
Easy to understand explanation, with a visual demonstration. As a 64 year old neophyte to speaker building and design this has been very helpful. Thank you!
The added benefit to isobaric clamshell coupling was to reduce deep bass distortion under higher power, aside from the supposed space savings. When a woofer reaches it's mechanical limits, assuming it's not catastrophic, the voice coil is further away from the magnetic field. When coupled, as one woofer is pulled in, the other is pushed forward. These speaker cones then worked in an acoustical coupling to control the physical extremes of voice coil travel. I've not tested that theory. I recall reading it in a speaker design book. M&K Speakers used this idea in their subwoofers from the 1970's. There was a period of time when they were out of the market, but are now back into production. The woofers are arranged in a push-pull driver configuration in order to cancel harmonic distortion, according to the company. I claim no special knowledge, merely reading what other designers claimed.
Wow, great video! I already had an intro to the topic, but this was still very helpful. Fun build sequences as well. As others have said, I liked that it was straight to the point with no filler. Good stuff!
Awesome, really awesome! I would love to see you design a small Bluetooth or similar speaker modeling and testing effect of passive radiators . I have been playing around with designing a 3D printed enclosure from old JBL flip parts and I must say that your sound card T/S parameter how to video has helped a lot! Thank you very much!
I love this guy! Your videos are absolutely brilliant and very helpful for us common idiots in the audio world trying to get an understanding of it.. You have got to be the most underrated youtuber channel I've come across in my years of watching. You deserve way more credit, subscribers and recognition than you have now. Very helpful and I just wanted to say thanks for what you do for people like me coming here trying to learn.
very nice and inspiring - found your channel when had to measure TSP (which I already did several times but forgot how to do it) and now I see you have plenty of nice videos and experiments - keep going ;)
Hello. Thanks for the video. This is exactly my case, as I happen to have a couple of 6.5" woofers laying around, and I would love to embrace an audio 'engineering' adventure, in a near future. My goal, would be to build two enclosures for them and use them in my home audio system, for movies and music. Obviously, i will have to cross them with a couple of mids or tweeters. I don't want them to be extremely loud (definitely not for SPL), rather I would love to take the most out of them, in terms of quality performance, and preferably that they would be able to play as low as 28/30Hz. I've been reading a lot about designing audio enclosures, but I am having a hard time chosing the "best" model that fits my needs. Between sealed, ported, transmission lines or tappered lines, 2nd to 8th order bandpass, I am just afraid of building something that won't make sense. I don't even have the TS parameters yet, and I am seriously thinking of order something like the dayton audio dats to get them, just for this project. This is how serious I am :) Anyway, I would love to hear peoples' opinion on their own experience and how their own projects came out. Thanks.
i like the idea of the Pioneer TS-WX70DA do you have any idea how to redesign this inclosure for better drivers?with one big woofer to get lower fq. greetings
In this comparison video, it would've been best to also put both speakers in the 50L box, in the clam-shell configuration, and then measure it to show the big increase in dB that is achieved at the 20Hz-60Hz range.
They way it was explained to me back in the late 80s early 90s by the car audio rep for crunch which made an isobaric tube he said that the two speakers actually can handle more power not necessarily less space and true efficiency of a 10” crunch sub back then require a 6” gap in the clam shell between speakers never put the cone to cone with out having at least a 2” gap between them you don’t want them to touch but they didn’t ever really sound better so they only made the iso tubes a short time but great video
1. I have been leaving comments last few days as I have been practically binge watching your videos. 2. I have been viewing audio stuff on yt fro the last 4 years and the stupid algorithm never recommended your work. 3. Awesome work, keep it up 4. Most 'audiophile' yt channels would dedicate 3 episodes to building 1 sub, showing off glossy finishes they are trying to achieve, but you explain the concept in half of the video and then quickly make 4 boxes in other half, not just in this video but also the one in which you measured 4 subs in your bmw trunk. 5. Does your dad have a wood/mdf shop? 😉
I'm using some space at my dads factory but the tools are my own. While he is in the woodworking business, none of the equipment he uses is useful for me. Except for an air compressor :)
That is not an isobaric design. You can use that in sealed or bass reflex box for example. Where you basically have a dual woofer setup but they are placed on opposite panels. And when the front one moves forward, the back one moves forward as well, but since it's on the opposite panel it moves into the other direction. In this case it cancels the vibration induced to the box. And no matter how violently the woofers move, the box will remain perfectly still. In an isobaric design, when you place the woofers magnet to magnet, you have to wire one speaker out of phase, so they move in the same direction, so the "force cancelling" doesn't happen.
Have you or can you make a comparison between an Isobarik and a Bandpass speaker? If I am not wrong you said at the end that it was more interesting the BP over the Isobarik. So I'd like to check speaker response and other parameters, if it's possible.
Bro, great article. I am thinking of building a small speaker for my workplace...it's what we do, ha. So being small, isobaric is a mode I am considering. As a future project??? The Decware modified Jensen Imperial. I built two of them, utilising the cheapest of ingredients and I have never heard anything come close. I am looking forward to building a pair using decent gear. I better hurry up, I'm 58 this year and Covid has put a blocker on so much.
Slightly off topic question, what if the speaker inside the enclosure is not connected to the amp? Does that help with the dip in response around the speaker resonant frequency? Is that better for bass response?
What happens In cases like M&K and Perlisten subwoofers where the rear sub is basically infinite baffle or ported is it still isobaric? And how does it affect the response or parameters?
What about facing a subwoofer in to the trunk and blocking it off and putting a hole on the backside which is facing in to the car will it still push the bass?
When I set up a pair of isobarik drivers in WinISD it cuts the efficiency in half. Why is that? Does WinISD automatically assume you're connecting the drivers in series? How do I fix that?
I found that the sound quality in a linear (cone to magnet) to be superior to a single woofer, especially when you add sound absorbing materials to the lower portion of the box. This helps to get closer to an infinite baffle adding to the quality, just my experience. I used a 1 cu/ft for a 10" woofer and about .5 cu/ft for the upper. Good explanation.
It would have been very useful to expand on the earlier part about the voltage being across both voicecoils, when wired in parallel. Since this means that you are dissipating the same power in BOTH drivers the sensitivity of an isobarik is 3dB lower than the single driver design. There is no free lunch in this case and it’s important to understand this issue with this design method. You halve the box size but, you halve the efficiency.
In-ceiling speakers don't need an enclosure. You just cut a hole in the dry-wall and mount the speaker there. They are designed to work in free air / large enclosures.
Hi, this is very cool! But do I understand it right - you gain a smaller Box but have to drive it with the double ammount of power to get the same sound pressure out of it?
Nice shop. Why does it look like there are stickers on each panel of the cabinet? Also, clamshell isobarik has the added benefit of canceling any response nonlinearities the speakers may have along the x axis.
The company which provides me with MDF has cutting services as well. So I calculate the boxes beforehand and order the panels to the exact size. The sticker contains the dimensions and panel name.
I thing u should make open baffle speakers......Danny Richie from GR research is designing some ....seems to know what he is doing......u should try as well
W hat if one cone from a sub is removed and the coil is directly connected to drive the Cone of the other sub? What would be the difference? Essentially one cone being driven on both sides by two motors
Nice video! Question: on the Isobaric Clamshell, are the speakers wired in parallel and are the wires between the two speakers crossed so that one is pushing and the other is pulling?
I have an older pair of Rockford Fosgate 18 inch subwoofers I was contemplating on building the clamshell for these considering for good response they seem to need 8 ft.³ ported it at 31.5hz I believe the spec sheet calls for 4 ft.³ sealed so in theory if I was using two of these in a clam shell configuration when I knock that down to 2 ft.³ per subwoofer or make it a little larger and go with 3 ft.³ if you actually answer this I can get you the model number of the sub woofers
If you did a clam configuration and each woofer should get a 4 cubic foot enclosure you should put the one woofer inside a 2 cubic foot box. Make sure you use a thick separating ring so they have some air to share. The clam shell configuration is actually preferred due to the woofers working in tandem 180 degrees phase shifted. This will eliminate any distortion introduced by the driver itself by cancelation. I'm actually doing the same thing with 2 Kicker Comp C18A's. Kicker never made a solobaric round back then so I'm making my own. I might use 4 if sounds good or use all 4 in a normal configuration if the isobaric box doesn't impress.
Excuse me but I need advice : I'm currently designing a subwoofer using winISD. I chose to use isobaric configuration, and a vented enclosure. I have some nice simulation using a volume of 187,34 L, a resonant frequency of 23,22. But I don't know where the vent actually goes in the box. I'm having trouble understanding what winISD tells me here. With those parameters, is it like the 50L box like at 1:43 in clamshell in your video, with a vent inside the box, like a normal bookshelf speaker would have ? Thanks in advance, fantastic video you did there.
In a German hifi forum some people claimed that the magnet to magnet compound would be the best, because of the combined magnet forces. Not sure if that really makes sense.
How did you wire up the speakers when they were facing each other.. Because if you wire them both positive positive negative negative and they get the same signal and move in the same direction facing each other wouldn't they cancel each other out
Not really. If you have 2 speakers and looking for loudness, you would place them normally and make them share the same enclosure. Placing them in isobaric configuration, you just make the box size requirements smaller, and only one speaker radiates sound on the outside, which is just a waste in this case.
Awsome demonstration on the topic but I am a little bit sad sad you did not coat the outside of the MDF. Because you do know MDF leaks air? First time i bought MDF as a kid on the country side I had to go to this furnitur manufaturing place. They had this vacum table where you just line up som rubber in threads on the metal table, and it got a lot of holes to make vacume to keep plates in place while they cut them. So this guy showed me; He took a pice of MDF 50X 50cm lined up the rubber for suction in that square. Then he turn on the vacum, Took a new pice of MDF ca 20X 30cm and thow it on top and said try to move it. It was totaly impossible for me to move or push any way. It was sucked thorugh the other pice. So a quick layer of lack or any coating would help and then the rest of the MDF give a nice damping in the enclosure. So your measurments will be off in reagard to cabinet leak.
That is very interesting. MDF is a porous material and will have some leakage associated with it. But not something to factor in. I mean, even the speaker driver itself will leak air through the cone, but nobody accounts for that. Anyway, I still find it hard to believe what you are describing, even if they were very thin sheets (3-4 mm). I'm guessing some other phenomenon is going on which is not evident right away. If I were to make a guess ... MDF has a very smooth surface, and when you stack 2 pieces, they naturally form some sort of void between them anyway. And since the sheets are pretty heavy, it's not an easy job to separate them, even without the suction machine. So, if that machine would manage to suck out the little air that is left between the sheets, it would explain why you couldn't move them. On another note, MDF is perfectly fine for speaker boxes without any treatment. It's one of the top materials of choice.
Your bass is faster and more accurate. Clamkshell are to be wired out of phase as to help each other push pull. In my clamshell, My 12’s are as fast as an 8 and hit low like a 15. Also I suspect that you can push it a bit harder and use a bit more amp power.After all what we are trying to do is move air without distortion. I may be being fooled, but clamshell seems to have less distortion. These to me are improvements that make it well worth doing.
@@whodat90 good question, I'm no expert but as he hasn't replied I'll try to answer. Speakers take time between movement of the driver for the sound to reach our ears, a problem that you can run into when tuning a speaker box is that even though a speaker may hit very low frequencies, it can start to take considerable time from the speaker moving to the sound reaching you, this usually is a problem with longer speaker ports, becuase the air takes time to travel the port. This also means that the speaker risks cancelling out its own produced frequencies. This is to do with something called speaker phase, have a look online at speaker phase if you want more info.
Bass reflex, 4th order bandpass, 6th order bandpass are all good candidates. Depends how you design them, because each box is a compromise between size, efficiency and bass extension.
This video is excellent but puzzling because it seems to contradict the fact that isobaric bass guitar speakers (orange smart power OBC212) and isobaric hi-fi speakers sound BIGGER than single speakers in a box.
You forgot to mention the only and to say the biggest advantage of isobaric boxes and drivers connected by opposite polarity and that is the cancellation of harmonic distortions
Could the difference be because the smaller box has more of its volume subtracted as a percentage. Say the driver displaces 5 liters, that would only be 10% of the big box but 20% of the small box. EDIT: actually, that would not explain why the other two ISO boxes matched the 50L box, so yeah, could well be due to mic placement difference.
Unfortunately, you do not take into account that the air in the coupling chamber also has a weight. This is the reason for the shift of the resonance frequency with larger volumes.
what happens when you build a box with 2 4 ohm woofers mounted with their magnets facing together but one out of face and both wired on a 2 ohm load (a sort of push pull)
You are not very specific about how you arrange the woofers. If it's an isobaric config, it will work like any other isobaric configurations mentioned in this video. If you just have 2 woofers sharing a box (as in, you can see both cones of the woofers from the outside (on the isobaric config only one woofer radiates sound to the exterior)), the fact that they are push pull, they will cancel each other out and you have a terrible subwoofer box.
@@AudioJudgement one 4 ohm woofer in the front of the box and one 4 ohm in the back of the box so the magnets are towards each other and than wire it at 2 ohm and wire one of the woofer out of face
Clamshell works best with a ported enclosure due to them being larger than sealed. Halving a large enclosure is great, but halving a smaller enclosure is a waste of time, as demonstrated in this video.
You just play a test tone which is the resonant frequency of your driver. Then set the volume so the speaker moves with decent excursion. But not too much, that you feel uncomfortable that you might damage the driver.
@@AudioJudgement So how does motor force factor into spl? If you have twice the power and twice the motor force. You could also build a large enclosure and effectively double the size. So basically If you have motor motors with twice the power and an enclosure that is twice the size would it be louder?
@@MrHannible Actually BL is the same for a parallel connection. Bl^2/Re is indeed doubled. But you can't take just portions of the equation. You have to take into consideration all the factors : the speaker is twice as rigid, it has twice the moving mass etc.In the end, the isobaric configuration is more inefficient. If you give it the same power as one single speaker you will have -3 dB SPL. Only when you give it twice the power it will have the same output as one single speaker. What concerns the enclosure size : If you have 2 enclosures of the same size, one is with one speaker in normal config and the other with 2 speakers in isobaric config. Yes, the isobaric config will be louder, as long as it receives twice the power.
@@AudioJudgement Ok great now is there a way to approximate how much louder it would be in the example 1 woofer vs 2 in the same size enclosure with twice the amount of power thanks for the input.
Acoustic measurements are never made directly at the cone . You need to pull the microphone back to 1 meter on axis and try various off-axis measurments.
That is nearfield measurement which is very accurate for subwoofer anechoic measurements. If you want to measure a subwoofer far-field (at 1 meter) you need an anechoic chamber. And good luck with finding one that is reflection-free down to 20 Hz :)
@@AudioJudgement That's not the point , if you want to know what it's doing in the room , near field measurements are useless. Not to mention it doesn't tell you what it's doing when you start putting a bunch of power into it. Also depending on what program your using , most have impulse response which should look a lot like the super close mikeing your using.
If im going to make a cone to magnet design i would make the inner speaker move way to the back and put a port going to the front that way it would be heard loudly. like the box looks like an L Port but theres a secret speaker at the back. I will not tell anyone there's a secret speaker at the back 😆 Or it'll look like a hog scoop box with a secret speaker in the back 😁
Jesus. first time viewing your channel. This was one of the best videos I have ever seen. It was short, not useless chatter. It stayed on topic to the point of razor-sharp accuracy. I am blown away. Pretalk with set goals, A quick "behind the curtain" viewing of construction. Then detailed results. I am simply blown away. Thank you so very much. Wish you the best...
Easy to understand explanation, with a visual demonstration. As a 64 year old neophyte to speaker building and design this has been very helpful. Thank you!
The added benefit to isobaric clamshell coupling was to reduce deep bass distortion under higher power, aside from the supposed space savings. When a woofer reaches it's mechanical limits, assuming it's not catastrophic, the voice coil is further away from the magnetic field. When coupled, as one woofer is pulled in, the other is pushed forward. These speaker cones then worked in an acoustical coupling to control the physical extremes of voice coil travel. I've not tested that theory. I recall reading it in a speaker design book.
M&K Speakers used this idea in their subwoofers from the 1970's. There was a period of time when they were out of the market, but are now back into production. The woofers are arranged in a push-pull driver configuration in order to cancel harmonic distortion, according to the company.
I claim no special knowledge, merely reading what other designers claimed.
excatly! not only reduce distortion, and cabinetsize, but also easier to damp mid and low frequencies, since the box is so small.
Wow, great video! I already had an intro to the topic, but this was still very helpful. Fun build sequences as well. As others have said, I liked that it was straight to the point with no filler. Good stuff!
Awesome, really awesome!
I would love to see you design a small Bluetooth or similar speaker modeling and testing effect of passive radiators .
I have been playing around with designing a 3D printed enclosure from old JBL flip parts and I must say that your sound card T/S parameter how to video has helped a lot!
Thank you very much!
I love this guy! Your videos are absolutely brilliant and very helpful for us common idiots in the audio world trying to get an understanding of it.. You have got to be the most underrated youtuber channel I've come across in my years of watching. You deserve way more credit, subscribers and recognition than you have now. Very helpful and I just wanted to say thanks for what you do for people like me coming here trying to learn.
Got that zhieeeet rite bro
Super informative video! I was just thinking to make an isobaric with 4 6.5" speakers
very nice and inspiring - found your channel when had to measure TSP (which I already did several times but forgot how to do it)
and now I see you have plenty of nice videos and experiments - keep going ;)
I’d like to see you make a 6th order isobarik band pass with as small a box as possible.
Sounds like a puzzle
Problem is the port size will make it large
Ok I'll build it been my idea for ever
Excellent educational video with both theory and real world results demonstrated!
Direct and to the point, you just got yourself a subscriber
Excellent video. Thanks for all the hard work.
Great informative video! Looking forward to the next one!
I just found your channel
It's so informative
Expecting more videos from u , I am following ur website from years ago
Hello. Thanks for the video. This is exactly my case, as I happen to have a couple of 6.5" woofers laying around, and I would love to embrace an audio 'engineering' adventure, in a near future. My goal, would be to build two enclosures for them and use them in my home audio system, for movies and music. Obviously, i will have to cross them with a couple of mids or tweeters. I don't want them to be extremely loud (definitely not for SPL), rather I would love to take the most out of them, in terms of quality performance, and preferably that they would be able to play as low as 28/30Hz. I've been reading a lot about designing audio enclosures, but I am having a hard time chosing the "best" model that fits my needs. Between sealed, ported, transmission lines or tappered lines, 2nd to 8th order bandpass, I am just afraid of building something that won't make sense. I don't even have the TS parameters yet, and I am seriously thinking of order something like the dayton audio dats to get them, just for this project. This is how serious I am :)
Anyway, I would love to hear peoples' opinion on their own experience and how their own projects came out. Thanks.
I had this system in a pair of Jamo speakers in 1984! Worked well.
Yes your explanation is very clear
You are always ma number 1 teacher. 🥰
Awesome channel. Thanks everything 👌👌
Subbed and i'm going to watch all your videos 🤩
Thanks. Nicely done.
Great video!
Использую изобаром в валящем проекте 150+ db
Тема хорошая. Знаю о ней лет как 8мь уже. Только год назад решил опробовать😁
i like the idea of the Pioneer TS-WX70DA do you have any idea how to redesign this inclosure for better drivers?with one big woofer to get lower fq. greetings
Very good made Video. Correct info and empiric measurement. Well done - Subscribed ;-)
Hi Marius! Thanks for the good videos and useful information! What about coaxial pro audio drivers? It Would be an interesting project
In this comparison video, it would've been best to also put both speakers in the 50L box, in the clam-shell configuration, and then measure it to show the big increase in dB that is achieved at the 20Hz-60Hz range.
Hmmm... great video!
They way it was explained to me back in the late 80s early 90s by the car audio rep for crunch which made an isobaric tube he said that the two speakers actually can handle more power not necessarily less space and true efficiency of a 10” crunch sub back then require a 6” gap in the clam shell between speakers never put the cone to cone with out having at least a 2” gap between them you don’t want them to touch but they didn’t ever really sound better so they only made the iso tubes a short time but great video
How about a coaxial horn with acoustic lenses? Digital crossover using fir filter for linear phase alignement...
Thanks!
1. I have been leaving comments last few days as I have been practically binge watching your videos.
2. I have been viewing audio stuff on yt fro the last 4 years and the stupid algorithm never recommended your work.
3. Awesome work, keep it up
4. Most 'audiophile' yt channels would dedicate 3 episodes to building 1 sub, showing off glossy finishes they are trying to achieve, but you explain the concept in half of the video and then quickly make 4 boxes in other half, not just in this video but also the one in which you measured 4 subs in your bmw trunk.
5. Does your dad have a wood/mdf shop? 😉
I'm using some space at my dads factory but the tools are my own. While he is in the woodworking business, none of the equipment he uses is useful for me. Except for an air compressor :)
great video ! lots of work put in it. how about the "force cancelling" features of the push push (magnet to magnet) design ?
That is not an isobaric design. You can use that in sealed or bass reflex box for example. Where you basically have a dual woofer setup but they are placed on opposite panels. And when the front one moves forward, the back one moves forward as well, but since it's on the opposite panel it moves into the other direction. In this case it cancels the vibration induced to the box. And no matter how violently the woofers move, the box will remain perfectly still.
In an isobaric design, when you place the woofers magnet to magnet, you have to wire one speaker out of phase, so they move in the same direction, so the "force cancelling" doesn't happen.
This is what i am gona do.....I will subscribe ...and thums up
Have you or can you make a comparison between an Isobarik and a Bandpass speaker? If I am not wrong you said at the end that it was more interesting the BP over the Isobarik. So I'd like to check speaker response and other parameters, if it's possible.
Bro, great article. I am thinking of building a small speaker for my workplace...it's what we do, ha. So being small, isobaric is a mode I am considering.
As a future project??? The Decware modified Jensen Imperial. I built two of them, utilising the cheapest of ingredients and I have never heard anything come close. I am looking forward to building a pair using decent gear. I better hurry up, I'm 58 this year and Covid has put a blocker on so much.
Slightly off topic question, what if the speaker inside the enclosure is not connected to the amp? Does that help with the dip in response around the speaker resonant frequency? Is that better for bass response?
What happens In cases like M&K and Perlisten subwoofers where the rear sub is basically infinite baffle or ported is it still isobaric? And how does it affect the response or parameters?
What about facing a subwoofer in to the trunk and blocking it off and putting a hole on the backside which is facing in to the car will it still push the bass?
When I set up a pair of isobarik drivers in WinISD it cuts the efficiency in half. Why is that? Does WinISD automatically assume you're connecting the drivers in series? How do I fix that?
It would have been cool to see in a huge home theater box of 25 to 35 ft3, where halfling the enclosure size is YUGE difference.
You are goood man
I found that the sound quality in a linear (cone to magnet) to be superior to a single woofer, especially when you add sound absorbing materials to the lower portion of the box. This helps to get closer to an infinite baffle adding to the quality, just my experience. I used a 1 cu/ft for a 10" woofer and about .5 cu/ft for the upper. Good explanation.
Nice
It would have been very useful to expand on the earlier part about the voltage being across both voicecoils, when wired in parallel. Since this means that you are dissipating the same power in BOTH drivers the sensitivity of an isobarik is 3dB lower than the single driver design. There is no free lunch in this case and it’s important to understand this issue with this design method. You halve the box size but, you halve the efficiency.
Great video.
For a 6 1/2 inches in-ceiling home speakers, what would the dimensions be for the speaker enclosure ?
Thank you !
In-ceiling speakers don't need an enclosure. You just cut a hole in the dry-wall and mount the speaker there. They are designed to work in free air / large enclosures.
tanks bro
The “k” Komes from LINN Produkts. I’ve had the LINN Isobarik Sara’s, the Isobarik DMS / PMS. (Active) and now have the Keltiks (active)
Hey! Have you talked about Transmission Lines? I do have a small sub here and I want to try it on a TL
I made a video about transmission lines. Check it out. Maybe it will change your mind for something else :)
Thank guy🎉
Hi, this is very cool! But do I understand it right - you gain a smaller Box but have to drive it with the double ammount of power to get the same sound pressure out of it?
Exactly
Nice shop. Why does it look like there are stickers on each panel of the cabinet?
Also, clamshell isobarik has the added benefit of canceling any response nonlinearities the speakers may have along the x axis.
The company which provides me with MDF has cutting services as well. So I calculate the boxes beforehand and order the panels to the exact size. The sticker contains the dimensions and panel name.
I thing u should make open baffle speakers......Danny Richie from GR research is designing some ....seems to know what he is doing......u should try as well
Series - BL doubles, Re doubles - (BL)^2/Re doubles (that of one driver)
Parallel - BL the same, Re halves - (BL)^2/Re doubles
Sd the same
Rms doubles
Can you help me to make a 8" 4th order bandpass subwoofer.pls give me a plan pls
W hat if one cone from a sub is removed and the coil is directly connected to drive the Cone of the other sub?
What would be the difference?
Essentially one cone being driven on both sides by two motors
Nice video! Question: on the Isobaric Clamshell, are the speakers wired in parallel and are the wires between the two speakers crossed so that one is pushing and the other is pulling?
Yes
Yes, one is wired in reversed polarity.
I have an older pair of Rockford Fosgate 18 inch subwoofers I was contemplating on building the clamshell for these considering for good response they seem to need 8 ft.³ ported it at 31.5hz I believe the spec sheet calls for 4 ft.³ sealed so in theory if I was using two of these in a clam shell configuration when I knock that down to 2 ft.³ per subwoofer or make it a little larger and go with 3 ft.³ if you actually answer this I can get you the model number of the sub woofers
If you did a clam configuration and each woofer should get a 4 cubic foot enclosure you should put the one woofer inside a 2 cubic foot box. Make sure you use a thick separating ring so they have some air to share. The clam shell configuration is actually preferred due to the woofers working in tandem 180 degrees phase shifted. This will eliminate any distortion introduced by the driver itself by cancelation. I'm actually doing the same thing with 2 Kicker Comp C18A's. Kicker never made a solobaric round back then so I'm making my own. I might use 4 if sounds good or use all 4 in a normal configuration if the isobaric box doesn't impress.
Love this video, maybe a stupid question but, can this be applied to low mid's as well!
You can, but usually they work in small (usually sealed) enclosures. As a result the benefit in negligible and the cost is an extra driver.
Super
Are there any speaker characteristics that would make them not-ideal for isobaric mounting?
Nope. Any speaker can be mounted in isobaric configuration.
Excuse me but I need advice :
I'm currently designing a subwoofer using winISD.
I chose to use isobaric configuration, and a vented enclosure.
I have some nice simulation using a volume of 187,34 L, a resonant frequency of 23,22.
But I don't know where the vent actually goes in the box.
I'm having trouble understanding what winISD tells me here.
With those parameters, is it like the 50L box like at 1:43 in clamshell in your video, with a vent inside the box, like a normal bookshelf speaker would have ?
Thanks in advance, fantastic video you did there.
You can mount it anywhere. I would go for a side panel or the rear panel.
@@AudioJudgement okay thank you
I like it but not convinced me. So, I need the "I don't know" button...
Great job. Serious.
In a German hifi forum some people claimed that the magnet to magnet compound would be the best, because of the combined magnet forces. Not sure if that really makes sense.
I think should explore the transmission loudspeaker
How did you wire up the speakers when they were facing each other.. Because if you wire them both positive positive negative negative and they get the same signal and move in the same direction facing each other wouldn't they cancel each other out
In clamshell configuration, one is wired in reverse polarity.
What design is M&k push and pull subwoofer?
Hey! I have a question: what would happen if you kept the box 100 l but added another speaker in clamshell configuration?
It will act like one speaker in a 200 liter box.
@@AudioJudgement Thank you for the reply! How would that affect the loudness? I.e. would that setup be louder than a single speaker or the same?
Not really. If you have 2 speakers and looking for loudness, you would place them normally and make them share the same enclosure. Placing them in isobaric configuration, you just make the box size requirements smaller, and only one speaker radiates sound on the outside, which is just a waste in this case.
I have a pair of ripole subs with 4x12" drivers in each
could i test this out with two 13.5 inch speakers?
Yeah, isobaric works with any speaker size.
Awsome demonstration on the topic but I am a little bit sad sad you did not coat the outside of the MDF.
Because you do know MDF leaks air? First time i bought MDF as a kid on the country side I had to go to this furnitur manufaturing place.
They had this vacum table where you just line up som rubber in threads on the metal table, and it got a lot of holes to make vacume to keep plates in place while they cut them.
So this guy showed me; He took a pice of MDF 50X 50cm lined up the rubber for suction in that square. Then he turn on the vacum, Took a new pice of MDF ca 20X 30cm and thow it on top and said try to move it.
It was totaly impossible for me to move or push any way. It was sucked thorugh the other pice.
So a quick layer of lack or any coating would help and then the rest of the MDF give a nice damping in the enclosure.
So your measurments will be off in reagard to cabinet leak.
That is very interesting. MDF is a porous material and will have some leakage associated with it. But not something to factor in. I mean, even the speaker driver itself will leak air through the cone, but nobody accounts for that. Anyway, I still find it hard to believe what you are describing, even if they were very thin sheets (3-4 mm). I'm guessing some other phenomenon is going on which is not evident right away. If I were to make a guess ... MDF has a very smooth surface, and when you stack 2 pieces, they naturally form some sort of void between them anyway. And since the sheets are pretty heavy, it's not an easy job to separate them, even without the suction machine. So, if that machine would manage to suck out the little air that is left between the sheets, it would explain why you couldn't move them. On another note, MDF is perfectly fine for speaker boxes without any treatment. It's one of the top materials of choice.
Your bass is faster and more accurate. Clamkshell are to be wired out of phase as to help each other push pull. In my clamshell, My 12’s are as fast as an 8 and hit low like a 15. Also I suspect that you can push it a bit harder and use a bit more amp power.After all what we are trying to do is move air without distortion. I may be being fooled, but clamshell seems to have less distortion. These to me are improvements that make it well worth doing.
Please explain the term ‘faster’ as pertains to reproducing bass frequencies.
@@whodat90 good question, I'm no expert but as he hasn't replied I'll try to answer. Speakers take time between movement of the driver for the sound to reach our ears, a problem that you can run into when tuning a speaker box is that even though a speaker may hit very low frequencies, it can start to take considerable time from the speaker moving to the sound reaching you, this usually is a problem with longer speaker ports, becuase the air takes time to travel the port. This also means that the speaker risks cancelling out its own produced frequencies. This is to do with something called speaker phase, have a look online at speaker phase if you want more info.
Does this mean that if you keep the same sized box you can have a lower frequency using the same box?
Depends on the exact situation (speaker specs, box size), but most of the time, yes.
In which kind of boxes we can get maximum bass
Bass reflex, 4th order bandpass, 6th order bandpass are all good candidates. Depends how you design them, because each box is a compromise between size, efficiency and bass extension.
This video is excellent but puzzling because it seems to contradict the fact that isobaric bass guitar speakers (orange smart power OBC212) and isobaric hi-fi speakers sound BIGGER than single speakers in a box.
I feel another build coming on.
I have this type bass in last 6 year
You forgot to mention the only and to say the biggest advantage of isobaric boxes and drivers connected by opposite polarity and that is the cancellation of harmonic distortions
Что важно в изобарическом исполнении ещё снижаются искажения, звук становиться точнее.
Not to judge but you look really tired. Im not sure if you are but, i hope you get sleep👍
Great videos man keep up the god work😀
what if cone to cone with double space? i mean , instead of 25L space what will happen with 50/100L space ? please explain
Well, it's exactly like having one single speaker in 100/200L box
@@AudioJudgement thanks
Could the difference be because the smaller box has more of its volume subtracted as a percentage. Say the driver displaces 5 liters, that would only be 10% of the big box but 20% of the small box. EDIT: actually, that would not explain why the other two ISO boxes matched the 50L box, so yeah, could well be due to mic placement difference.
Unfortunately, you do not take into account that the air in the coupling chamber also has a weight. This is the reason for the shift of the resonance frequency with larger volumes.
You seemed to gloss over that the brown curve (25 liter flush baffle) exibits some nasty waves blow 35 Hz. Might be worth investigating.
what happens when you build a box with 2 4 ohm woofers mounted with their magnets facing together but one out of face and both wired on a 2 ohm load (a sort of push pull)
You are not very specific about how you arrange the woofers. If it's an isobaric config, it will work like any other isobaric configurations mentioned in this video. If you just have 2 woofers sharing a box (as in, you can see both cones of the woofers from the outside (on the isobaric config only one woofer radiates sound to the exterior)), the fact that they are push pull, they will cancel each other out and you have a terrible subwoofer box.
@@AudioJudgement
one 4 ohm woofer in the front of the box and one 4 ohm in the back of the box so the magnets are towards each other and than wire it at 2 ohm and wire one of the woofer out of face
Isobaric 4th order plz
what about sound quality?
I have an interesting idea. How about I merry you you beautiful speaker freak!
😂
Why didn't you explain the connection of the speakers for clamshell?
I didn't? I think I did, but I'm not going to watch the clip again to confirm. You wire one speaker in reverse polarity.
Clamshell works best with a ported enclosure due to them being larger than sealed. Halving a large enclosure is great, but halving a smaller enclosure is a waste of time, as demonstrated in this video.
Isobaric. To be in isobar. Isobar- to have continual pressure, to maintain a static barrometric pressure
if its good for my ears ,i buy it
no worry if it is isobaric or barbaric
Basically twice the money for a smaller box
BEST PART IS 1:02
🤣🤣🤣
You might have som losses as reason for differenses in measurements.
What speaker burn in program do you use
You just play a test tone which is the resonant frequency of your driver. Then set the volume so the speaker moves with decent excursion. But not too much, that you feel uncomfortable that you might damage the driver.
Isobaric also doubles power handling which can in theory gain you an extra 3 db if you double the power.
Please bear in mind that half of that power goes to a speaker which doesn't radiate sound to the exterior. Therefore you don't get any output boost.
@@AudioJudgement So how does motor force factor into spl? If you have twice the power and twice the motor force. You could also build a large enclosure and effectively double the size. So basically If you have motor motors with twice the power and an enclosure that is twice the size would it be louder?
@@MrHannible Actually BL is the same for a parallel connection. Bl^2/Re is indeed doubled. But you can't take just portions of the equation. You have to take into consideration all the factors : the speaker is twice as rigid, it has twice the moving mass etc.In the end, the isobaric configuration is more inefficient. If you give it the same power as one single speaker you will have -3 dB SPL. Only when you give it twice the power it will have the same output as one single speaker. What concerns the enclosure size : If you have 2 enclosures of the same size, one is with one speaker in normal config and the other with 2 speakers in isobaric config. Yes, the isobaric config will be louder, as long as it receives twice the power.
@@AudioJudgement Ok great now is there a way to approximate how much louder it would be in the example 1 woofer vs 2 in the same size enclosure with twice the amount of power thanks for the input.
Yeah. You can use any modeling software (like WinISD), model the response curve of each box, and compare them.
Acoustic measurements are never made directly at the cone . You need to pull the microphone back to 1 meter on axis and try various off-axis measurments.
That is nearfield measurement which is very accurate for subwoofer anechoic measurements. If you want to measure a subwoofer far-field (at 1 meter) you need an anechoic chamber. And good luck with finding one that is reflection-free down to 20 Hz :)
@@AudioJudgement That's not the point , if you want to know what it's doing in the room , near field measurements are useless. Not to mention it doesn't tell you what it's doing when you start putting a bunch of power into it. Also depending on what program your using , most have impulse response which should look a lot like the super close mikeing your using.
🤔
If im going to make a cone to magnet design i would make the inner speaker move way to the back and put a port going to the front that way it would be heard loudly. like the box looks like an L Port but theres a secret speaker at the back. I will not tell anyone there's a secret speaker at the back 😆
Or it'll look like a hog scoop box with a secret speaker in the back 😁