Fire Emblem Pitfalls - Part 1
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
- Part 1 of my Fire Emblem Pitfalls Series, where I go through some common advice given within the Fire Emblem community that might not be as good as it sounds.
Please leave a comment here or on Reddit. :)
Credits:
Map Images from:
Fire Emblem Wars of Dragons
www.fireemblemwod.com
Title Card Art by:
Dragon Lore Studios on DeviantArt:
dragonlorestudios.deviantart.c...
and
Reddit users DragonOfDream and Fullbody
Comics from:
Brawl in the Family - brawlinthefamily.keenspot.com/
Awkward Zombie - www.awkwardzombie.com/
Other various images and stats from:
LPArchive - lparchive.org/
Serenes Forest - serenesforest.net/
Fire Emblem Wiki - fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Fire...
Some channels of good players:
dondon151 - / dd151
vykan12 - / fireemblemvids
Irysa - / irysan
Espinosa - / moogleboss
Chiki - / loputousu
ruadath - / @ruadath
Lapogne - / lapogne36
Music used:
1. FE4 - Birth of a Holy Knight (Prologue)
2. Awakening - Conquest (Challenges)
3. Fates - Resolve Light/Dark - Hry
1:33 Hoarding
3:13 Not Using Prepromotes
6:23 Promoting at Level 20
There was a short time I used to avoid the starting pre-promotes like the plague (looking at you, Marcus, Seth), until I figured out the perfect use for them in my playstyle.
I basically sent them into battle armed with only a *vulnerary* and a *menacing glare.*
Nothing was more satisfying than seeing brigands attack an unarmed Paladin and get barely any attention before dying to the rest of my units.
You'd still get more out of them by giving them a weapon!
Sorry, I can't fully get it out of my system anymore.
I steamrolled the first half of Path of Radiance with Cr-itania before getting screwed over in the next chapters. Everybody who wasn't a Paladin or blue-haired just couldn't keep up. It doesn't help that that was the second FE game I tried my hand at T_T
Now, I split my selections between designated meatshields and intended late-game murder-machines.
I'm not advocating a Titania solo or Titania/Ike duo. Just that you use Titania about as often as you would any other unit. She'll be better than everyone else for the longest time, and then still on par for the second half of the game.
No, you both have good points. I get them, it's just something like a habit that I rarely see the need to break.
I mean, the _real_ negative about the way I play is that simple maps turn into *40-turn battles of attrition* because I'm deliberately forcing my ostensibly weaker units to kill squads for those exp gains.
I could just steamroll those maps if it weren't for my absurd handling of army logistics, and I don't even want to remember all my _weapon hoarding_ and _arena abuse._ Good thing I'm not a speed runner, hahaha.
@LordAlex: Arena abuse is relatively safe, at least if you only bet for 700 or less coins (maximally 750 if you like risks), use unpromoted units (due to the risk of getting a berserkers, swordmasters and snipers, critical hit classes) and your characters have got a high luck (you know, for crits). In fact, on one of my runs. I had trained most of my team in FE7 to level 20 and the only deaths were only caused by forgetting to heal the characters i.e. nothing with the arena itself as they could have survived them if fully healed.
I played this on the virtual console so I had access to savestates but these were the *only* times I used savestates. If one of my characters died because of the arena, I simply wouldn't have used them.
I would have added in (a nitpick) how your early game healers would benifit from an early promotion due to gaining the ability to fight back. Nice video o/
To summarize:
- Don't be ashamed to use Items if you feel they'll help now--you'll probably get plenty more of them later.
- Some Pre-Promotes can actually prove to be INCREDIBLY useful, so actually try using them some times--they just might surprise you.
- If your Unit is in Promoting range, you don't HAVE to wait till Lvl 20 to promote them. You can promote them whenever you want, assuming their Stats are at least decent (pay attention to Speed, especially--you don't want to promote them without good Speed).
FE6 Marcus isn't even terrible. Gunter is arguably worse than him but at least he can be a pair up bot
@@ieatpeople7055 FE6 Marcus is great, honestly. And if you disagree, try playing Hard Mode sometime without using him. The early enemies are just so insanely beefy that Marcus is the only one who can one-round them; everyone else needs to work together to handle them one at a time. Sure, the enemies actually are strong enough lategame that he becomes hard to justify using, but that doesn't erase how essential he is in the first five or six chapters.
@@misterbadguy7325 Marcus in FE6 HM is good because he is the only one who can deal with the enemies, although the enemies are so bulky that it seems they are designed to Marcus to be 1 or 2 damage off to kill them, which is good because that means safe EXP for your other guys
Still, I don't consider a level 10 promotion to always be a good Idea either. The question is how much the unit benefits from promotion. Usually I like to promote around level 15 in order to equalize short-term and long-term benefits but it really depends on unit and game.
IschmarVI Mashups For me it depends on the game. In something like Thracia,where the caps are so low,you can get away with a 10 level promotion. Or if it's a unit that can't properly attack until promoted.
promote around 10-15 lvl and you should be fine
Did you even watch the video? The game is always beatable with the resources you are given regardless of when you decide to promote your damn characters. 0% growth runs are perfect proofs of this. It doesn't matter when you promote
@@powerfulberry237 even tho it's true. If you are a new player I think it's always better to promote after 15. I remember my first fire emblem was Sacred Stones and I promoted every one of my characters at 10 and had a lot of problems on the final maps because they weren't doing enough damage nor tanking (Naga bless Seth and Lute for carrying me) AND IT WAS F* FIRE EMBLEM 8 the easiest!
@@gilbertosandoval3614 I think you just got unlucky.
Is that Setsuna in the pit? LMFAO
+1 yep setsuna in pitfall already
Its funny how people consider Gunter a Jagen. He starts off with less stats than revelations odin. Revelations Odin!
Edit: I hadn't played Conquest as of writing this, he's a Jagen in conquest only, in the other 2 he just had Jagen energy.
Of couse, a unit that comes late has better bases than a unit that comes early
Yeah but at the point you get gunter in any path either corrin is way better or you have a ton of good units, either way his only use is a potential corrin pair up bot.
Well, no matter how bad he is, Jagens are usually inferior all around, with the exception of the Silver Lance, which Gunter doesn't even have. Mind you, he's a proper Jagen, but easily the worst at that.
Diogo Jorge "Jagens are usually inferior all around"
You do realise you're watching an episode of fire emblem pitfalls, right?
Yes? And? In case you haven't noticed, I disagree with some of them, Jagens being one of those. And what I said is true, "usually" being the key word, Titania and Seth are good and remain good.
Once did a playthrough with the characters with worst growths in Fe7. Had 4 Cavaliers to work with and I think it was the fastest I've completed the game...
But sain isn't bad though....
I have this stupidly overcomplicated Excel file with all the stats & growth rates for every level of every character in the GBA FE games. I can't remember what calculations I did but I ended up having to use Marcus, Isadora, Sain and Kent. Lowen has the overall best stats of all the cavaliers in FE7, if you can believe it, mostly because of his ridiculous HP and Def.
Snyde Yes, he may have good stats in those areas, but Sain is better than him because sain usually has capped strength, and good speed - the important stats. When you are going up against the final chapter enemies, high defense and HP can only get you so far, when your other stats are lack luster comparatively.
He's a good meatshield. I'd rather use him than Marcus xD But yes, Sain is quite good, provided his speed doesn't get screwed up due to RNG. Problem with him and the other cavs is the stat caps.
Snyde I can see that. Karel FTW.
I always do this, specially leveling up characters at lvl 20 and Hoarding.
I do Hoarding on every game, in FE I always use iron weapons, even if it makes the game harder. In games like Pokemon I rather take a 5 minute trip to the Pokecenter than using an antidote.
I have never use a single Stimpak or Jet in Fallout 4.
I think that I have a problem.
Ulises Weroleytor same here man even in fallout 4 or Pokemon too.
Ulises Weroleytor
I always have iron steel and ranged weapon and USUALLY use those. I only use silver or brave if I'm a few points off killing
I have the same problem. I think we both suffer from the "Too Awesome To Use" syndrome.
I mean, I hoard, but if I need to, then sure. Caeda's Wing Spear (s) is something I bring out all the time. I hate Steel weapons though. Too much weight.
I've been trying to get better with using my more expensive weapons, but still have trouble holding onto staves. when it comes to promoting I think a good rule is to do it when a stat or two caps
One correction, while you can level above 20 in fates as a promoted unit, it costs so much gold that it's generally not worth it for the 5 extra levels you get
Pikmin 1211
unless youre goal is to make a very powerful postgame team, in which case gold is easy enough to farm and those are necessary for stat maxing
Alexander Jones
and its not about stats. its mire about getting the skils you want.
I used to have this weird tendency - I always prioritzed using the weapon that had an odd durability count to get even numbers (or multiples of five). I would even sell the ones that had an odd number if they were even half way to breaking...
I remember when i first played FE back when i was a kid I got FE8 and I used ONLY seth i boosted him to 20 in chapter 5 with the arena and beat the whole game with just Seth. Good times :D
That's just bad game design
@@zenmastakilla He was probably playing on lower difficulties, capped units are basically unstoppable in a lot FE's on the easier difficulties, what I'm wondering is if they ever had a problem with effective weaponry like horse slayers
I'm more impressed Seth didn't get rekt by a Swordmaster crit
@@yeyo1019 Oswin is god-like when you give him horseslayer
@@kimitohanahala8674 The Cavaliers are cars and Oswin is an electrified wall of titanium
You're not wrong, but it feels like it's only a pitfall if taken to the extreme. For example, I usually promote most characters between lv. 15-18 cause I'm impatient, but I wait for lords (even if it isn't tied to the plot) and est characters (I love using them). As for pre-promotes, If their personality is awesome then I definitely use them (like Viada).
It's completely fine to promote a lvl 15+ unit imo, but mostly when their stats wouldn't benefit from more levels. If a units main stats are Skill and Speed, and that unit capped these stats, it would be a waste to not promote, because the stat caps get raised, allowing you to make that unit even better
FullVault Inc accurate.
I disagree with Est-characters. They're at a such low level in the end game, they simply aren't worth to promote them at level 20 (I have done that with Nino on my last playthrough). In fact, as Mekkkah said it, it's difficult to have a character at level 20/20 unless you do some arena grinding (if there are chapters with arenas to grind at all) and on quite regular playthroughs it can take at least two chapters to have your Est at level 20 unpromoted.
That being said, I agree with your point about lords as they usually promote very late in the game (sometimes only a couple chapters before the finale) but even other characters like the thieves in FE7 (due to getting the Fell Contract at roughly the same time as Nino) can only promote until very late in the games and should be naturally at level 20 unpromoted by the time they can.
MarioFanGamer He didn't say Est characters were good, he just said he liked using them.
Great series thank you Mekkah :) loving Fe12 & 7 right now and these tips help flesh out my experiences so far. Cheers!
I think the 'not using prepremotes' pitfall is a good suggestion. I used to ignore them, but now I tend to use them as a sort-of special striker. If I really need something out of the way, and know I can probably make up the exp later, I'll use the prepromote instead
Stephen McDonald Yeah, I generally like to use my early-game pre-promotes as "delete buttons". Say another unit misses a crucial hit and that will leave a weaker unit exposed to where they will likely die on enemy phase -- time to deploy the ICBM (Inter-Continental Ballistic Marcus). And it's especially easy to position thems to be able to do so, since you can toss them pretty much wherever is most convenient (or will cover more of the potential places you might need to use them), since enemies will generally ignore them being that they are so strong.
I mean in fe6 and 7 some of the best units are pre promotes. Pent and Percival particularly stand out.
@@geenobe9941 Pent is ridic lol i always use him, I honestly like Hawkeye too
@@magicnubs Old comment I know, but hard agree. I always move my pre-promote last in case anything needs dealt with.
I'm pretty guilty of hoarding valuable items in Fire Emblem and many other games too. For whatever reason I never used Pure Waters too much before but it really helped when I recently went through Shadow Dragon when I needed to get the Falchion from Gharnef.
I feel like promoting at lv20 is always the best possible option but it's something that should be considered on a case by a case basis. If a unit is doing a good job at fighting, surviving things and has good stats all around while still unpromoted then I say there's no reason to rush to make them promoted early. If they're doing not so good but the promotion bonus would really help them out in general then I guess I dont see why not. But personally I wouldn't a unit regardless of class earlier than level 15
I don't hate pre-promotes but I'm always cautious about using them so they don't go overboard when it comes to killing enemy units. By means though I like using them to weaken units so weaker ones get exp. In general though I find myself not using them after the first few chapters. But in hindsight having one around would've made some chapters easier.
MrRaui
I would only early promote healers (in awakening cause looping), echoes (cause 3 tiers), and villager classes.
I literally fall to every pitfall lol.
But I'm fine with that.
I think the most important thing is to play how you wanna play but these kinds of guidance make you play more effectively.
Good thing you point out.
Such a legendary video
Excellent Video! I'm slowly but surely avoiding these pitfalls as I play more FE, but this video is a great resource, especially for newer players!
I thought this was really interesting! I have been playing Fire Emblem since the GBA, so I have grown out of a lot of these tendencies, but it really easy to fall back into old habits. It's cool to have such reasonable explanations of why players should avoid these pitfalls.
Thanks man. Always good to hear appreciation for the GBA emblems. I do think they instill better habits in players than the 3DS series.
Garo Briggs
For me, because i started so young, i haven't really taken the time to question any of the habits i developed on my own or from what my older brother told me about. ive even seen guides online saying you should always promote non healers at 20. it's nice to see some justification for promoting earlier.
Very informative, I think this should be viewed by all FE players alike.
If you want to take 50 turns per chapter.
Bad units=long runs
Good units=short runs
Guess what kind of units Mekkah uses.
the ones he likes.
I'm not saying what characters anyone should like or not, but don't try to give advice based on your opinion of using bad units. Those are bad advices.
Also the answer is : the shitty ones.
I too slowplay my Rutger on the mainland.
nice meaty meme
3:45 Shoutout Marcus literally telling the tactitian put him out front in that chapter(at least on Eliwood Hard mode). I think he said "Put me in the lead and I will show these Laus dogs a real Knight" or something.
Happened on normal too.
why wouldnt you want to use seth in sacred stones? im almost positive the game was designed around throwing seth into the horde of enemies as a one man blender especially early on before you have anyone of power with decent movement
Fates is my first FE game and I feel so lost when it comes to mechanics and the games' systems. Would appreciate a part 2! :)
It's coming up soon!
Tetos I don't know how much you've learned since seeing this video, but Fire Emblem for the GBA has a great tutorial story. It takes it's time and goes in-depth on many of the mechanics. Said tutorial gets annoying on later playthroughs once you know how to play, but it's perfect for beginners.
*cough* *cough* Awakening baby :P
How is he an Awakening baby? He literally said Fates was his first game. Also, even if Awakening was his first game you have no right to bash him.
id recommend sacred stones just because it explains everything and its much easier to get into than fates
Thank you for the captions!!
Yeah, hoarding is definitely a thing I do. I will use the special weapons, but I save them for powerful enemies. Oftentimes I'll get through the entire game with an unbroken killing edge, though it will have lost about half it's durability.
I do use prepremotes, though I often replace them by the 10th chapter as my other units catch up.
Kind of a personal story, but it fits this video.
So a long time ago I played my first Fire Emblem game, Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon for the DS. Didn't searched for any guides and could only half-assed-ly read English.
I sacrificed Jagen on the prologue, not knowing there was perma-death, nor that Jagen was useful. Tried to level up as many units as possible, preserving as many good weapons as possible, and eventually got stuck early-to-mid-game.
Weeks later I tried again, but this time I sacrificed Gordin and started using Jagen a lot. I focused my EXP gains on Jagen, Marth, Ogma, Caeda and eventually Minerva, using any other usefull unit when fit and always keeping a couple of priests around. Used a shitton of strong weapons. Managed to get Tiki by guessing I should use Bantu since he also was a Manakete. Got Falchion for being greedy and getting all the treasures. Got Marth to max level by abusing the arena and trampled most of the later chapters by warping Marth to the boss and 1-rounding it. Finished the game with relative ease.
On a later year I tried Awakening, and the support system made me start doing the same mistakes that got me stuck on FE:SD. And that continued on every FE game I've played that had a support system. I always am inclined to level up a big number of units just so I could see their supports.
This week I decided to replay Echoes. I was stuck on early Act 3 for, guess what?, leveling too many units. I could theorically grind, but I was stuck on a loop where there always was an enemy troop attacking me on each side and I couldn't defeat them. On my replay I focused my exp on 3-4 characters on each army, with a couple extras to help. On Alm side there's Alm, Luka, Effie (Faye), Clair and eventually Mathilda. And on Celica side there's Celica, Saber, Mae and eventually Jesse. Now I find myself at the start of Act 4. Saber and Mae facerolled the entirety of Celica's Act 3, and Effie as a Falcon Knight is tanking and killing archers with ease, and it's fun abuse Invoke and Warp.
I’m low on health
Then use an elixir!
But they’re a limited resource
IT’S THE FINAL BATTLE?!
But I only have 89 uses left
I love playlists like this. I'm always curious if they are more helpful for views since it's a series as well
My favorite thing to do with the pre promotes is to as often as I can have them take out the majority of a units Health to line up easy kills for other units.
As a person who just got into the series a month ago I can say that all these points are completely true and I'm guilty of all of them. I'm in the last 3 chapters of the Blazing Blade and have stockpiles of awesome weapons that I hoarded for no reason, instead, I used only iron or steel weapons. I also waited until 20 to promote everyone and avoided the pre-promotes but after comparing some of their stats I realized the pre-promotes were stronger than my level 20 promoted characters even though I'd already surpassed them in levels AFTER they promoted (Pent was much better than Erk despite being 3 levels lower and he came with a high rank in staves.) The only real downside to playing the way I did was that I wasted time unnecessarily with characters that I could have replaced with pre-promotes and I had less fun by hoarding powerful weapons and avoiding these awesome pre-promoted characters. In the next few chapters, I'm going all out and destroying everything with all this stuff I've saved up.
I always promote my Jagen early and give him all my stat boosters right away!
Very insightful. I wish I would have watched sooner though.(already learned the hard way)
Hmm... this was interesting... keep up the good work!
3:15 the only exception is, of course, Gunter from FE14
Florfy5 Depends on which Gunter. Conquest Gunter is great and buffs Corrin a ton. Too bad we can't see Young Gunter. That guy was basically the first Prince from Shadow Dragon. Anri was it?
"Conquest Gunter is great"
- When Xander outclasses max. Level Gunter at base.
Gunter is great in the chapter he join. After, he go to the bench
You act like Gunter being outclassed by Xander is a major flaw with Gunter. LITERALLY EVERY UNIT IN THE GAME IS OUTCLASSED BY XANDER. Also, Xander only has one player phase action (2 if you're using Azura). Having another strong prepromote is a massive boon. Conquest Gunter has great base stats, weapon ranks, and a mount. Just because he gets outclassed by the best unit in the game doesn't mean he isn't useful.
i never managed to get beyond takumi in conquest,so i only really play birthright if anything.so gunter is a 2-map only char for me xD and he is pretty useful at that i have to say
Lately ive found myself promoting based on if it would be beneficial to have a promoted unit for that map, such as if i need a strong unit to choke a reinforcement/ambush point while the rest of my party moves forward, or if the enemy outnumbers me to the point that a team of unpromoted units cant survive without insane RNG luck. I also usually early promote a unit im dead-set on using but they keep underperforming/dying too easily/get screwed on their level ups.
Good video; I enjoyed it very much! I think better sound quality/mic would do worlds for the overall quality of your videos.
Thanks! I actually bought a new mic a while ago and tried it out in my newest vid. I've also figured out some other ways to improve quality.
3:13 That kills it. I'm calling the next rapier I get the "Scrapyard".
My thoughts about promoting depend on wheter you want to do the post game. For example, Sacred Stones does have a post game by doing dungeons like Lagdou Ruins, which btw can actually get quite challenging as opposed to the rest of the game. If you think you will get the most enjoyment out of the post game and you want to have the most powerful units by your side when doing it, I recommend waiting until level 20. Otherwise, do it around 10-15 if you only want to beat the main story.
Great video, I use the Jagen archetype to kill divisions of the enemy army say if I start somewhere and there's 3 main clumps of enemies (Like the battle at Laus in FE6 and FE7) I will use my Jagen to attract 1-5 enemies and kill them so then when the enemy tries to charge at me there's less of them and I have an easier time.
The point about promoting units earlier than level 20 mostly applies mostly for the Est-characters. They appear so late in the game at a such low level, one of the biggest difficulties is to get them even to level 20/20. Nino in my last playthrough, for example, was promoted at level 16 or 17 at my last play through in contrast to the one where I trained her to 20 to promote.
Of course, nothing stops you to promote your units at level 20. In fact, most units you get early in the game are unpromoted so it won't hurt you that much if you promote them at level 20 (unless, of course, every turn matters like playing GBA games ranked). And if the promotion (item) comes only at the very end of the game (like the lords in most games), simply train them to level 20 as by the time you get the item or event appears, they already are at level 20 naturally (unless, of course, you simply refuse to train them).
Not using rare weapons is mostly a thing that most of them break relatively quickly and people are aware of that and fear if they use them too often, they have wasted them. The thing is: Fire Emblem is a linear game, meaning that once you had finished the game, it's already lost anyway but most forget this fact. As such, what's the point of the fear to waste rare weapons if you won't use them anyway? Of course, if you play the GBA games ranked (where valuable items counts toward to the total money value), you simply can't use them that often as using them lose their value and thus lower your rank.
More over, the games also reminds you that if you simply refuse to use such weapons (and boosters), they still are wasted in the long term.
Still such a banger video
I am guilty of all of these, but I seriously doubt I'll change how I play.
1. I stick to Iron and Steel weapons (depending on my unit's CON), and only use Killer or Silver weapons for any units I've already promoted. I'm a little more haphazard with stat boosters though, since I always use them during preparations and give it to whoever has the lowest stat of the people I'm deploying (barring a few exceptions).
2. I only use pre-promotes if my units are having trouble. Otherwise, I avoid using them at all costs, because I bank on unpromoted units eventually leveling up and having their stats eventually surpass the base stats of whatever pre-promoted units I get.
3. I'm kind of partial to growths more than base stats, because I like to squeeze out as many stat gains as I can per level, so I'll never promote until every last level is gained for my units.
I like this video. It makes me think I shouldn’t make my prepromotes run away from the enemy or hoard my good items as much. Thanks! I do however still believe in waiting till level 20 to promote. It suits my play style cause I like arena abusing and general grinding to see my units become the best they can be.
I gradually tone down the level at which i promote characters as the game goes on. I usually balance it around if i think they will reach around promoted lv 10 by endgame, and am good enough at judging it by this point that i could do it on my blind fates runs just fine.
Jespoke I agree with you, but instead of judging it unit-by-unit I judge it game by game. For instance, in FE Fates Birthright, the only thing you gain by promoting earlier than level 20 is the time needed to grind out experience in skirmishes, and I always wait till level 20 because of that. On the other end of the spectrum, you should always promote as soon as you can in Fire Emblem Gaiden, because the stat growths are so bad that the gain from promoting almost always outshines what you could have gained by grinding.
I personally find satisfying reaching level 20 and promote there, It gave me the feeling that i get the best i could get of a character, for me even bad levels count
I agree 100% with this video. I'll share it.
This was the the start of something beautiful
In regards to promotion, I think a good example is FE1. In that game, promoting only brings a unit up to the next class's bases, meaning there is absolutely no reason not to promote at Level 10. Or in a game like FE8, which is not only relatively short, but super easy as well. If you wait till 20 to promote in that game most of your army will likely only be 20/5 or so, considering the rate that promoted units gain xp in that game.
I agree with all these things and ive been telling my friends about these specific topics for awhile but we argue about them. however, i do find myself using them somewhat. in certain instances i will try to save the durability on a strong weapon, and i wont use a pre promote thats especially bad, and ill typically promote my units at level 17-20,or earlier if i reallyneed a strong unit.
So this is where it all began...
lol this video made me think about how much my play style changed over the years, in FE7 and FE8 I would usually wait for one or two stat caps (~14-15 usually) before I would promote, but because Awakening and Fates added a "Post game" in those game I typically go for 20/20 promotes when possible, or in the case of Awakening 10->re-class to Pegasus knight->10-> Dark-flyer 15 for most of the gale force parents.
Da Ravin Tree I've done that before, and good lord does it make overpowered child units. Not that they weren't already overpowered... I'm attempting to complete Awakening without Second Seals, though, so no Galeforce for Inigo this time.
I only hoard elixirs then use them like hell in the last chapter because "oh crap I forgot about these"
I concur with all of this, I personally wait until 20 to promote just because of my own OCD reasons, but I do actually agree it's unneeded, especially in FE1, FE3, and FE5
early promotion really depends on the game
in terms of promoting, I promote battle units at 20, and healers at about 15.
As for hoarding, I've grown out of hoarding everything. Now I hoard special weapons(Heck, even shit like steels) but I've grown to use stat boosters.
Hoarding is surprisingly the one issue I don't have.
Why keep the Sword of the Creator when I have the blacksmith?
Titania's also a really useful prepromote since Boyd is the only other Axe wielder for quite a while.
You want a "pre-promote" with very high growths in FE7? Early promote either Sain or Kent in LHM
Interesting, I actually agree 100% with what you said. I'm working my way to avoid those pitfalls bit by bit. The one I currently have the most issue avoiding is the level 20 promotions, because I like to play very slowly, in order to get my characters as strong as I can, so I have way more than enough time to get everyone to 20/20, but I can see that if you are trying to go fast, level 13 or 14 is good enough for a promotion, heck, depending of how well your character is going, you may even promote him/her earlier.
In the early games, you don't even have time to get 20/20 so you're effectively wasting your time waiting for level 20. Sacred Stones comes to mind since the game is soo short.
Yup. I usually promote at level 12-13.
Mylaur
but also in SS you can grind up to 2020 if you like.
Aside from Jeigen units, I agreed with your points in this video; however, I don't think I'll stop leveling up units at level 20. I used to hoard stat boosters and the like when I first got into Fire Emblem, but after beating a few games without using them I've broken the habit and use them when I want to. I still tend to want as much experience as possible though, promoting before level 20 just feels wasteful to me. That's definitely more my opinion than my experience in-game however, I'm pretty sure that you can afford to promote anywhere between 15-20 in any of the games released in English.
I watched the Fire Emblem anime adaptation (which isn't good) a few days ago and realized they fell for the pitfall of not using their Jeigan. He legit did not see a second of screentime where he was fighting. Gordin and Doga fought more than he did. The warp staff does more work than he does.
he fights early on! it lasts like 3 frames
I have legitimately only ever promoted before lv20 in revelations because of the metric fuck ton of units+barely any master seals so I needed something to hold out before I got kids with seals included
What about promoting in Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn? Where if you level them up past lvl20 it counts as a free promotion without having to use a promotion item, which do come in fewer quantities compared to other games.
I've been promoting my units when they reach level 20 since 2003. I can't break that habit 😅
Rutger and Melady in FE6 (hard mode especially), and Priscilla, Canas, and Raven in FE7 really benifit from early promotions given what they get from the promotion. For most characters, I wait until they aren't as useful in combat or movement, but would be much better after promotion even with gaining less exp per battle.
there are a bunch situations where you need to just yolo marcus into dangerous situations in order to accomplish certain side goals. i.e. reaching the gold village on the merlinus gaiden chapter, getting matthew close to the boss on the pirate ship chapter, killing the torch staff thief on the first dread isle mission, rushing him down to priscilla's village, getting to legault/member card in time etc. i dont feel guilty about him stealing all the xp he does along the way because marcus is usually the best candidate for the job. on my first hector mode run i tried foolishly not to let him get kill xp and it just made life hell. plus when i wanted to actually use him for those yolo side quests it was that much harder because he hadnt been gaining any levels.
for the most part i normally Avoid pre-promtes unless i need to just cause i know they don't generally do anything after chapter 10 though im not above using them if needed so i keep them close untill roughly then
Alexis The Transgender Duelist I use pre-promotes excessively, and most of the time they hold up to the endgame. Even if you don't bring them endgame, it's not like you were feeding kills to them anyway, so you don't lose out on much by just benching them
I use prepromotes if they're the good ones. Such as Wolf and Sedgar in fe shadow dragon since thier growth rates are so fricken amazing in that version they will be guarenteed to have great stats despite thier shit bases.
I honestly like to promote at level 15 or 20, due to slight OCD. It does change due to the game, like Echoes promoting promoting ASAP due to much lower growth rates than Awakening, where I'll almost always wait until 20 to promote. Some like healers I'm much more likely to promote early due to their limited limited ability to gain exp.
Jeremiah Blough in echoes, it’s not even the lower growth rates that make promoting early more viable- unlike in awakening and fates, promotion bonuses only bring each stat up to a certain number (dependent on class), as opposed to the flat bonuses gained in the other games
Hoarding is something I never do and unfortunately I should’ve done it with Conquest because trying endgame with only 1 rescue wasn’t fun
I just finished FE7 and realized I did all of these
Im a hoarder on any game (halo.CoD.WoW.Risen) i never use the best weapon or items in fear of needing them later but also like in FE i do the same but thats because i wanna keep the unique weapons to the end
I didn't realize until today that people waited until level 20 to promote their units, it's super unlikely any of my units make it to level 20 (Though my Path of Radiance playthrough might be a change of pace) so I always promoted my units fist chance I got.
There isn't that many promotion items as I would like, so to promoted everyone I would get them to level 21 which is a auto promote, from there I level them up to 5 and then move onto another unit, also calculating odds of what I would get in a level up, if I get a bunch of good stat ups, like more than 3 a few levels in a row, odds are the next couple will suck so I use the bonus exp level up system to get a guaranteed 3 stat up per level up and that always seems to reset my luck leaving me with stronger units going forward, idk, I love Path of Radiance as it was the 1st FE game I ever owned so I played it way more than I should, thinking of playing it again soon, I even managed to turn Elincia into a monster and made Sothe OP af for a file transfer to Radiant Dawn
lol @ sothe in the jagen lineup. Seriousness though, loved the vid, I'm just teasing.
However, I hope you mind me saying: I can't say I entirely agree on the hoarding aspect. Unless you are very familiar with the game and have played through a few times, holding onto certain items or weapons if you don't really need them early on can really help later when you're closer to knowing who you'll be using in endgame. I suppose this plays into the abundance vs scarcity mindset, and finding a balance.
Somehow I feel you kinda missed the point with regards to jagen characters. I doubt many good players would argue they should never be used, but the problem comes when new players start relying too much on their crutch character, which is an easy trap to fall into as they're strong enough to solo at least the entire early-game. For what it's worth, trying to avoid using Marcus has taught me to be a better player. As such, I still think it is good advice to not use him if you can manage without.
As you said, the best way to use Jagen characters is the middle road: don't use them for every single thing, but definitely use them to an extent. The FE community at large currently underutilizes them, with several people recommending not to use them at all. I feel like this video provides a reasonable counterweight to that advice. As you can tell by the comment section on here or across CZcams, there are actually many people who think they are actually _bad_.
And if you know what you're doing, you can (and actually should) rely on your Jagen characters to do the bulk of the fighting when it comes to LTCs, speedruns, etc.
My word, that was a really fast response! Thanks for the reply ^_^
It's all a matter of balance, I guess we are in agreement in that regard. It's just that I found the balance to be hard to pinpoint for a long time, so I deemed it wise to refrain from relying on them beyond being a bodyshield and the occassional emergency. I have some fond memories of Titania being my MVP simply by virtue of being the perfect bait. :p
In terms of LTCs and the like, you get no argument from me there. Those runs add an additional challenge that simply cannot be overcome without those early powerhouses.
1. Hoarding good weapons,stats and promo items is generally a bad idea.
Use them if it helps you you can switch them to reguar weapons through trade from another unit, stat boosts can make your game easy on the right unit and promo items pretty much use both them freely unless you are playing FE 7 for S rank run.
2. Prepromotes are pretty good to use early on, generally you can make up for exp later on,Midgame or late game prepromotes are damn good in general. Using prepromotes early on can make your game easier and quicker.
3. Promoting at 20
Depends on the game but imo unless a unit has great bases promoting later is better, since your units will have better stats later on and also you have your prepromotes early game or midgame to take care of difficult enemies, the enemies are pretty weak in general except for bosses or if you are playing in hard mode. Sure you miss on weapon ranks, but you have prepromotes and generally a diverse enough team who can use most weapon types.
For example Rath promoting at 10 has 14 speed on average if you wait a few levels and let him promote when he has 16 speed before promotion he will double every non promoted unit.
The thing is if you are promoting early make sure your unit has the right base stats before promoting them.
Good job on doing this though Mekkkah.
In 0 percent growth runs promoting at level 20 is the worst idea ever.
I'd like to ask for a bit of advice: So, I'm playing FE6, and I'm using Fir (first time playing the game, so I'm being a bit experimental) she's having a hard time killing enemies, usually leaving them at like, 2-4 hp remaining or so. While she is only level 13, I was still considering giving her the promotion with a hero crest I have since she hasn't seemed to really be leveling strength at all... is this wise, or should I wait a few more levels first?
Promoting Fir now is fine. Her strength growth is bad so even if you level her up more chances are she won't get more than one point out of it. The way she usually kills enemies is with crits.
Mekkkah ah! Thanks! :)
She is still getting HP, LUK and RES if you level her. Promoting early is usually a mistake. You want more LUK to dodgetank propely and you want to improve her durability further as well.
I changed my mind about not using prepromotes when I realized how Jagen was NEEDED if I wanted to beat the first few chapters of FE1 remake on the DS... but more importantly when they gave us a MILF Jagen in FE9
I think most of use fall to all of these pitfalls on our first playthrough.
Hoarding is exactly what I did in Fates Conquest...until I realized the Tonics were a thing in that game, being exactly the same boosts, but outrageously cheap and for just one map. Instead of worrying about stat buffs later on, I can just spend a marginal amount of gold to give half my team the same benefit for a map.
And for Lv20...course I wanna do that to maximize base levels, but it's also cause the games encourage it in the first place by not swamping you with lots of promoted units until around the time your entire team should be promoted.
Shit mangs roast was spot on
I usually promote around lv15 in the GBA games
A growth unit that needs a lot of spoon feeding to be good. Looking at you Sophia
what about the tellius games where there is an annoying lack of master seals/crowns
i promote late when i play fe8, since the game is too easy and promoting them late is just my way of making the difficulty higher.
oh yeah i always use my good old seth, he's the man.
1:40 while people hoard items in FE GBA, you have to scrap around for everything in FE5, Capture go brrrrr
Lmao my first playthrough of HHM, I promoted Sain at lv16 in Lyn mode and benched him until I promoted someone else in Hector mode
Thanks for the advice but I'm still probably going to horde
Same, this is a bad habit I have with videogames in general that I can't stop doing lol
@@TheDiego908 to be honest the move of hoarding is specially idiotic in Fire Emblem since it's a linear game, once you finish it it's done, end of the run, that sacred weapon you used like 2 times at the final chapter is gone, those vulnaries that could have saved a unit from death, gone
but when it comes to arenas, would promotion time change? like in fe7, you get an arena at chap 20, so you can arena abuse to get to lvl 20 and then promote
Arena abuse are an inconvenient tactic but satisfying for min maxers. I personally hate Arena abuse and Avoid Arenas at all cost, but it's an option for people that want to max
To arena abuse you requiere save states which is pretty much cheating, the idea of the arena is actually to get money by gambling the life of your characters, the exp is just a bonus
4:20 Honest Q, If I have an un-promoted lv.1 and a pre-promote lv.1. the minimum promotion lv is 10, so at it's lowest that pre-promote is already 11 levels ahead and at it's highest 21. why would I want to give a unit that is 10 to 20 levels ahead of an un-promoted unit even more exp? that makes no sense to me. To me characters like Marcus are only there to have a safety net in the early game to help complete the levels.
Well, honestly the game gets easier and you start playing much more efficient when you start viewing EXP and levels as second prio (or lower) compared to usefulness. Instead of asking yourself which units needs the experience more right now, ask yourself which units will pull their own weights. Which units will be able to handle combat without worry. Only when you really run short of units here should you consider babying other units that will have good potential to soon get up to speed (most likely in the beginning of the game). And then, when you have your team with units who can all pull their own weights without worry, then you can consider EXP distribution among them, but if you focus on just making use of all units you have and being somewhat efficient (like not turtling unnecessarily) then the amounts of times that you will actually have to decide which units get the EXP rarer that you think as all your units will naturally see enough combat.
Every round that a unit is alive is a round that it could potentially move closer to your fragile healers, and in worst case attack them. Better to take them out from an advantegous position in the enemy territory than to hope they won't reach you. And the enemy generally outnumbers you, so just picking off certain units due to wanting that perfect EXP distribution just leaves more enemies alive that could potentially outmanouver you. Or gang up on a weakened unit and kill it.
The problem is, is that you're viewing it under the pretense that the unpromoted growth units are better than the pre-promoted units with potentially bad growth rates, because you think the growth units will turn out better on average in the long term.
The reality of Fire Emblem is that, on the hardest difficulty in the majority of games, the player units have a severe experience decay imposed on them when they begin to surpass the level of the enemy units. What ends up happening is that it becomes an extremely inefficient use of the limited available experience, to try and squeeze out as many levels as possible on a character, because it just begins to take far too long to gain experience at a certain point and the added stats you might get from reaching 20/20 are never necessary to actually beat any of the games.
Besides that, the enemies also just scale down the further you go into the games in a lot of them. Heavier weaponry generally becomes the norm, so even though the enemies should be a lot faster, they end up slower due to the increased AS penalty. You used Marcus as an example, so I will also use him as one. Take FE7 HHM for instance. Lv1 Marcus is fast enough to double most enemies all the way until chapter 32, the penultimate chapter, and if he gains a single point of Speed and you give him a Speedwings, he doubles basically everything except for the absolute fastest enemies that almost nobody else is doubling either.
Mekkah already gave the example regarding experience distribution, but Fire Emblem is fundamentally a game that rewards low-man juggernauting. The fewer units you need to dedicate resources to, the better off you are in most cases.
Yeaaaah, my hoarding isn't going to stop anytime soon, its WAY too built into me at this point to save up things for units that may need it later on and to save weapons like Killer weapons and unique weapons for me to stop now
As for prepromotes, there are still very few who I will use and even less I will feed kills to
And promoting at level 20 in most fire emblem games sounds like a good idea to me, so that's what I'm going to do
this is all just me though, I've been doing these things too long to just stop now
#1 is me in basically every game I play.
People actually don't use Frederick at the start of Awakening? The game's got infinite EXP what does it matter?
I always thought hitting max level was a requirement to promote.
I almost never use prepromotes!
Should I promote Guy and Raven at around level 13-15?
Guy probably wants the crit bonus he gets from Swordmaster immediately, so I guess promote him asap. Raven desperately needs hand axes for two range combat, so I usually promote him at level 10.
when I was younger I was a hoarder . hoarding vunularys are pointless unless it's fe 5 . they arnt that good late game and in some cases mid game so use them in the early game while thier still use full .
but I still will promote at 20 you don’t sway me begone
It's a good perspective to hear. Growing up, I did all of these things, and still enjoyed the game greatly. However, in retrospective, and after playing more difficult games in the series, I really appreciate the advice.
One thing I've noticed about my earlier runs was that the early game tended to be much harder than the late game, which feels backwards.
Taking the advice of this video will actually help correct that. By using the Jaigen characters and all of the resources available earlier in the game, that portion of the game becomes easier, even if it does have a downside later in the game. Ultimately though, that makes it so the games peak difficulty decreases, which seems like a good goal for a skilled player, and would allow a successful run through higher difficulties than one could otherwise manage.
I had no idea so many people wait till 20 to promote, a lot of times units will have max or close to it early enough that there's no reason to spend extra time hunting down that last archer or whatever you're murdering. lol
You got it right!
I do arena abuse, then I can up to 20 and so I get tons of money
You can do that, but then the rest of the game is going to be really easy since it's balanced around not using the arena.
You're right, Linus just got blew by Fiora's silver lance
Since ive already finish the game, with arena abuse its funny to play reckless, since even Eliwood (who I consider to be the weakest lord in rekka no ren) its just demolishing enemies