First World War - Messines Craters Part 3
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- Last episode in a three part series of short films of the mine craters made on the 7th June 1917. Detonated at the start of the attack to capture the Messines ridge during the First World War.
I am a history teacher and CZcams creator. I am extremely jealous of your proximity to the battlefields of WWI. Extremely envious of your work. Thanks for what you do.
Thank you for watching and your feedback. More to come in December - Hill 70 near Loos.
As an Aussie who has visited hill 60 that compliment at the end was much appreciated. Thank you
Thank you for watching.
Well done Steven,your films will capture forever these landscapes and history ,which may be lost in the future through development.
Thank you for watching and your encouragement.
Dear Steven Thank you very much for these very concise videos. Oliver Woodward was a relative of mine who fired the Hill 60 and Caterpillar system off. He was was also responsible for taking care of the Hill 60 system after the Canadians did most of the preparations. It was difficult in that for many months prior to the firing they had to dig diversionary tunnels to try to keep the German tunnelers from discovering the main explosive caches and they did the final linking of all the detonators to one point. Out of interest his cousin was a major who led a charge from Popes Hill into the Turkish chessboard trenches in Gallipoli on 7th August 915 and was killed. Oliver enlisted after hearing of the death of James Reid his cousin.
Thank you for watching and sharing your family's story. My great uncle was at Gallipoli, wounded twice and only 16 years old. He lived to a good age and I have memories of him.
Thank you very much for all the work and effort to preserve our so important history and legacy of WWI!
Thank you for watching.
Fascinating , brilliant research and knowledge you have done on all these videos of WW1 ,…one can only imagine the suffering ,fear and horror they endured…..thank you for your respect in every way.
Thank you for watching.
These are brilliant, so concise and well presented, filmed and narrated. Well done.
Thank you for watching.
Educational. Thought provoking. Interesting. Sad. Thank you for sharing with us all.
Thank you for watching.
This three-part series is good enough for TV. Impressive footage and commentary. I thought I knew the area but now educated and have more places to visit later this year. Thanks for posting.
Thank you for watching. I will be back there tomorrow, 7 Jan. for more filming.
These videos are excellent! Thank you so much for doing this!
Thank you for watching.
Thank you Steven for this follow on video. Your aerial views help immensely to gain a better understanding of the closeness of theses villages whose names are so well known due to the battles that raged there in WW1. Simply viewing a map doesn't give a clear perspective.
I am taken aback by just how small an area could become so historically important and the shear number of fighting men actually died there.
Thank you for watching. I agree, maps just do not give you the perspective these aerial views do. Particularly the lie of the land.
Absolutely brilliant photography, Steven. Can't praise you enough for your great work. When the 1916 St Eloi crater was blown this really rattled the Germans and they started constantly harassing the British front line trenches in the shallow valley opposite Wytschaete ridge. I'm going out to France 16-22 September visiting the sites of the first three Spring Offences of 1918. These would be worth videoing from the air, especially 50th Division's sector on the Chemin des Dames between Craonne and Pontavert.
Thank you for watching. I have visited the C des D several times and I am drawn to the British involvement there in 1914. Not actually done any filming there yet. The disastrous Nivelle offensive of 1917 there, broke the spirit of the French army.
A fabulous video and supporting commentary, as always Stephen. Many thanks for posting
Thank you for watching.
I very much admire your efforts in producing these videos, not just for the education value in showing the terraine and explaining what took place there, but in the broader sense of a tribute to the men who went through that appalling war. Truly, inspiring and evocative, so well done you. I must, however, mention that not all your information is accurate, and in this video you even left out the largest crater on the Messines Ridge - Spanbroekmolen - within a stone's throw of St Eloi. On an even less admiring note, I have to say that your pronunciation of the towns and cities - on the Somme, Vimy Ridge and The Salient - is far worse than the 1914-18 Tommies who had less education than we have today! Sorry, but it had to be said! Nevertheless, you have done a pretty marvellous job, with the drone giving great views.
I've visited and run motorcycle & coach tours since 1982, along the "Old Front Lines" - from Etaples to St Quentin, and Amiens all the up to Ypres, and it never fails to impress and immerse me. I have a great Uncle buried at Mailly Maillet Brit Cem., and my interest in the Great War goes a long way back to around 1962!! Before I get much older and more senile, I'm hoping to produce a new type of presentation for CZcams re The Somme. Anyway, I congratulate you on your efforts in your productions. Keep them up..
Thank you for watching. I decided to cover the Messines mines in three separate films. Spanbroekmolen is in a separate film.
Further to my last comment - any historical inaccuracies are entirely my own and I am always open to correction. Thank you.
Mount Sorrel which is near Hill 60 further to the east is as you state - a mere gentle rolling hill - to call it high-ground seems hard to imagine but of course during the war the ravaged landscape must have made those "hills" seem like mountains - the view of approaching soldiers and trench movements was premium and of course all the water ran down hill and swamped the allied trenches which were already water-logged - the Germans used to deliberately empty their trench water in that direction - Hill 60 means 60m above sea level - 180 feet! - not much of a hill at all but very advantageous in battle - the Germans built trenches for attrition - the allies for a brief period because they were usually always on the offensive and did not expect to be in their trenches for long - they were of course - the memorial is like the film made by and for the 1st Australian Tunnelling Company - the Canadians were here in the Ypres Salient from May-August 1916 and then switched en bloc all Divisions with the Australian Divisions - the largest complete Divisional swap at the time - they who had been in the Somme near The Windmill near Pozieres outside of Albert and were getting badly mauled so they came to the Ypres salient ... for some REST !
Thank you for watching. The view towards Ypres, partuculary when all the trees are blown away, was priceless for the Germans.
Hello, there is some point of interest to note that Lovecraft novel's, Herbert West reanimator, takes place at St-Eloi crossroads which is depicted here. The all land is so flat that the Mount Kemmel, which is on ly 154 meters high, is a landmark. Ieper-Ypres-"Wypers" is something 16 meter above sea level and the so called high grounds around are between 10 to 20 meters higher. Anyway sufficient to give clear view of what was doing the ennemy and essential to control. Thats why there where so many fight around Ypres which is, in my opinion, quite the same as Verdun for the French, in British remembrance.
Thank you for watching.
My grandfather John Farnell was at the battle of Messines with the Australian 3rd division salvage co.
Thank you for watching.
Great shots Steve, seeing Ypres and full landscape is superb. Thank you
Thank you for watching.
Thanks for yet another great video
Terry&thepirates
Thank you for watching.
Thanks for another great series of videos on the Messines Ridge mines.
I became aware of them from the wonderful film "Beneath Hill 60" and my understanding was that an Australian tunneling engineer company took charge of the Caterpillar and Hill 60 mines from the Canadian tunnellers before they were finally detonated.
But I believe that the actual tunnelling work was done by the Canadian engineers.
I hope one day to visit this area.
Thank you for watching. I hope you get the chance to visit.
Once again Steven many thanks for your great quality posts and as a follower of the Great War for some 30 years, I commend your knowledge of the topic.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you Steve, Been waiting to hear about Hill 60, great video -- as always.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you for your efforts in videoing World War 1 sites on the Western Front. The memorial at Hill 60 shown in this video is, I believe, the Australian Tunnelling Company memorial. I don't think the Canadians were here for the 1917 June offensive. I have been to Hill 60 and it is a solemn place and as you say the elevation of the drone does not properly depict the depth of the crater even significant after all these years.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you Steven that was an awesome piece of work. Man, I really enjoyed that video just like I enjoy your other videos. Just Awesome!!! Please keep your work coming to myself and all the others that enjoy them. Just Awesome!!
Thank you for watching, and your encouraging feedback.
Excellent footage! Greetings from the Netherlands.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you for uploading very good.
Thank you for watching.
I think there are still (5) Messines Mines including (3) at Birdcage as you mentioned that are still buried and "active" - they have struggled to relocate some of them and/or have chosen not to disturb them - it is still very possible that yet another mishap natural or man made could trigger them to go off - or - with the deterioration of time could make them more volatile like many of the millions of unexploded ordnance scattered all over the fields you panned - it is quite possible the day will come when more deaths due to the Messines Mines exploding occurs - I recommend people visit the less travelled Caterpillar Crater - it has several German machine gun bunkers on the path there and is rarely visited - cutting the railway lines was a daily chore for the trench mortar batteries as having a direct line into Ypres was never something that could be allowed to be viable hence the name of the cemetery
I ma back in the area in June and intend visiting the Caterpillar along with the Bluff.
@@StevenUpton14-18 close to there - if you can locate Armagh Wood next to Mount Sorrell - you will have the location of the large German Offensive there in June 1916 - The Battle of Mount Sorrell - that pummelled the newbie Canadians who had recently arrived and broke the line in several places - this was their savage baptism by fire and gas - there was at one stage of the Battle a breach of some 1.3 km or so and a clear path lay open to Ypres unknown to the Germans - I think this was when gas was used for the first time - the Germans however followed orders and did not pursue the retreating Canadians who were staggered and reeling - a green Arthur Currie came in and ordered the counter-attack and pushed the Germans back - the Canadian monument you see in Sanctuary Wood is there for that reason ... if interested go to the 15th Battalion Canadian Infantry Memorial near Maple Copse Cemetery ( google map it )
@@9090Glenn Could you be mixing the Canadian memorial at Hill 62 (near Sanctuary wood) with the Canadian one at Gravenstaffel?
@@StevenUpton14-18 there is an Australian Tunnellers Memorial at Hill 60 and possibly others as well - likely a Canadian one but the large one is Australian - there is the large Canadian Memorial at Hill 62 that you mention - the 15th Battalion Canadian Infantry Memorial near Maple Copse Cemetery is a plaque beside the road that describes the Battle of Mount Sorrel - it is on Zandvoordestraat - opposite Maple Copse Cemetery - as you are reading the plaque - look straight ahead and you will see Mount Sorrel - to your right is Armagh Wood - to your far left is Sanctuary Wood and Hooge - the German trench closely followed the road on top of the Mount - Pappoptstraat - the Germans rarely went on the Offensive once the Front Line was established in 1914/15 - mostly they defended and counter-attacked strongly - Mount Sorrell was a rare German Offensive - the Allies were almost always on the Offensive - when I say rare I mean in relation to the Allies - the Germans were not so interested to gain ground by then as they were to fight a war of attrition - obviously if they could gain ground they did and tried to but their trenches were far superior to the Allied trenches so to capture and hold an Allied trench against counter-attacks was usually not deemed worth it to German high command - the German Spring Offensive of 1918 of course was entirely different matter - during the Battle of Mount Sorrel the Germans also attacked Hooge and Sanctuary Wood - they gained large territory and threatened Ypres - hence Hill 62 Memorial to Canadians who held them off - but were eventually - slowly - pushed back to original Front Line - Ypres is an interesting historical sight - for me Passachendaele in 1917 was the worst conflict of the Great War - the French would likely argue Verdun - good for you to visit all of these sites and post your intriguing aerial videos - it is a new perspective for myself who has visited several of them - if you have not visited the recently opened Albert Museum I highly recommend it - they have done a very good job - the Great War will remain for myself one of the greatest / worst tragedy in the history of man - it was such a vastly different conflict than any before it and since - not at all a prelude to WWII - it stood on its own - in time history will likely be merged into the WWII as the World Wars rather than designating them as separate - but I will always consider it as unique and for me far more interesting the WWII
@@9090Glenn Thank you for posting this.
Incredible film. Thank you.
Thank you for watching.
Superb again, Steven. A poignant reminder of my own visits to this area a long time ago. Many thanks.
Thank you for watching.
Great work as always! Lest we forget.
Thank you for watching.
Steve - good footage overall and appreciate your dedication to take time to do this - I have done quite a bit of research on this area - I think the account you are discussing about the Canadian soldier at 3:54 actually relates to the St Eloi craters set off in 1916 - I have read similar War Record accounts - what occurred was after the detonations of the (5) craters - the resulting landscape became so unsettled that it was difficult to orient yourself - several of the Canadian units sent in to hold the craters become so confused that they believed they were holding the critical craters 1,2 and 3 but in fact were only holding the minor craters 4 and 5 - the Germans had already rushed in to capture the major craters - sure a similar occurrence could have occurred in 1917 but I think the overall scale of the Messines mines left the German soldiers either annihilated or so damaged as units that they simply retreated from the ridge en bloc - I do not have as much information on the Messines mines to hold that statement though but the scale and destruction of the Messines mines compared to the St Eloi mines was far greater - there is of course an excellent Australian film Beneath Hill 60 - that gives a very good account of the Messines mines tunnelling n explosion - I recommend it - at that time they were the largest man-made explosion in history
Thank you for watching. I have seen the Hill 60 film. In another film I do fly over St. Eloi. You could very well be correct about in being St. Eloi. I have read an account by an American serving with the Canadians who was in the attack that captured an Eloi crater and they fought for several days to keep hold of it.
@@StevenUpton14-18 yes the craters were bitterly fought over for more than 2-3 weeks if I recall ! - they were taken and re-taken and in the end - the Germans captured them ! - so a big loss and a few brass heads rolled over the "blunder" - but how could you blame them ? - it was a nightmare landscape - also - I think the total tonnage for the 1916 St Eloi Mines was 95,000 divided amongst all of the (5) mines - not any one mine - Messines Mines were more spectacular in 1917 when they were better skilled at doing it - also - the Germans were counter-tunnelling too -
@@StevenUpton14-18 Steve - if you have not yet been and you get back out there - I recommend you visit the Ulster Division memorial near Theipval - talk to the museum curator and ask him about the trench recovery project across the road and ask him if he will show it to you - he gives Tours but only on specific dates and times but they have done a marvellous job of recreating the buried trenches in that wood nearby - the museum is packed with goodies too
@@9090Glenn Already done that. But as its private property did not get to walk it.
@@StevenUpton14-18 Steve - you might want to send the curator Teddy an email beforehand and inquiry as to when he conducts tours - I think it is several times a week and he allows photography - aerial might not work as the forest is overgrown now but you still might try - your call - teddy.ulstertower at orange.fr - its just an idea for your series
Thank you Steven, your work is remarkable. A great combination of excellent footage and informative narration. I have watched all your content, some several times. looking forward to any new material. Thanks for your great work.
Thank you for watching. I do have more raw film, just not got round to working on it.
Thank you Steven for another beautiful video. I have been to Hill 60 many times. It’s also interesting to note that there are some bullet holes, from WW2 in the the Australian Tunnellers memorial plaque. I have always wondered why it’s never filled up with water like the rest .
Thank you for watching. I think it has remained dry due to the level of the water table.
Wow ! Your videos and amazing maps bring life to history. I must be a visual learner, because after reading the most significant texts on the CEF 26th New Brunswick Battalion, 2nd Division, 5th Brigade, I still have difficulty understanding all the locations and troop movements of that time period. One short Upton Production and my understanding is ramped up tenfold (or much more) Total appreciation and respect your way. John Alan
Thank you for your feedback. I will be flying to Canada in the morning.
The Caterpillar looks small from the Drone footage and only shallow. But up close is a totally different story. Great set of vids enjoyed them all. Your filming and research it top notch.
Thank you for watching.
Wonderful videos. Well done to you!
Thank you for watching.
Your videos are amazing
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Well done again..............thanks !
Thank you for watching.
Sadly, I'm a typical American in virtual ignorance of why those who sacrificed so much called it the Great War. My Dad had an idea as a G.I. in the Second War. In viewing his pictures of the Ossuary at Duoaumont, and knowing little of any history surrounding it, I found your videos a few months back. He took hundreds of pictures all over Europe, no scene was repeated in as many pics as the area around Verdun, especially the Ossuary. He did include a few of mine craters and Ypres, which was partially reconstructed, far less than today. Thanks so much, your interest and passion are easily discerned, your videos are a great help for those trying to figure out Whitesheets from Hawthorn Ridge from afar. Keeping your word to the owner of the Gold Wing didn't go unnoticed, something few seek to accomplish today. I have got to see Ypres, the Somme, and Verdun for myself.
Russ Harbaugh - thank you for watching, if you can go you should.
Superbly done.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you
Thank you for watching.
Thanks so much again Steven: on Monday 17 Sept, two of my sons and I are travelling to Verdun for two days then back to Arras for two days, hoping to find time to show them the Blochaus and La Coupole on the way back to Calais.
Thank you for watching. I keep passing the signs on the motorway for the Couple, but I have never been to see it.
Steven Upton Do yourself a favour and visit it Steven, better still, treat us followers to a drone video. I'll say no more than you will be impressed!!!!
Jack bassman - Thank you when I can, I will.
@@StevenUpton14-18 what is it?
@@BillSikes. The Couple is the German V1 launch site not far from Calais. Its a massive concrete dome.
Thank you for these incredible videos.
There are many other smaller round lakes visible in the videos and on maps, could some of them be from artillery craters? As you said the area was completely covered in craters, could it be that some of them were not filled and left as ponds?
It’s quite likely that they are. The whole area was turned into a crater field, as far as you could see was overlapping shell holes.
I find your drone series and comments fascinating Steve. Please consider doing some drone/commentary on Mouquet Farm across to the Windmill. The memorial opposite the Windmill still bears damage to a model tank that was hit while a P51 strafed German soldiers during WW2. I found this a most interesting area. Where do you source the trench maps?
Thank you for watching. I am very familiar with the area you mention. Next time I visit the Somme I will do it. My GF was in that place in September 1916.
Hi Steven , thanks your films are so informative, I have been to the western front 17 times since 2005, been all over but still have not seen it all, your films give me some sort of direction when I go, kind of lets me know where I am . my family lost ten men in ww1 6 I have found . thanks again and keep up the great work you do .
Thank you for watching.
Thanks for these videos, ive been to the Thiepval Memorial and Ypres ive seen lots of British War Cemeteries, but didnt know about these craters and the Trench system at Massiges or Vimy, il definitely be visiting these places next time i visit the Western Front.. Cheers bro
Thank you for watching. In the British sector its mainly cemeteries. But go to the French part and there is far more to see.
thank you
Thank you for watching.
Re: The Australians buried beneath Hill 60. Has there been a suggestion that the sight be excavated? Not only would the deceased receive a proper burial, but a archaeological dig would uncover interesting information.
I am not aware of any such proposal. The site is a war grave and I think it should be left as such.
@@StevenUpton14-18 Sounds reasonable.
What was the type of explosive that the mines were composed of?
I believe they used ammonal. Mostly ammonium nitrate and aluminium powder, with some TNT and charcoal added for good measure.
Thank you for watching. I think it was Ammonal.
It was ammonal- which is a low explosive - not a high explosive as Steven describes. It's efficiency is improved by putting it under pressure, as in a naval depth charge, by being underground and having the galleries thoroughly tamped by metres of sandbags to contain and focus the explosion, forcing it upwards.
I was at hill 60 ; 10 November 2018 very moving
Thank you for watching.
Although a number of mines failed to explode, when a detonation was initiated, did any mines explode prematurely or accidentally?
Thank you for watching. I cannot think of any mines that went off prematurely, but suspect it may have happened. There was one mine that was intended for the 7th June 1917 attack on Messines ridge that went off in 1951! Also, there are many still in the round today.
The house is built directly over the German trenches. Tell me that place ain't haunted !
Thank you for watching.
steve im looking into family history and where is irish house cemetary located in these vids please. im sure im in the right area and i have a royal irish regt ancestor 6 btn buried here.thanks .
Thank you for watching. Irish House cemetery is not far from here, but a lot closer to the craters seen in - czcams.com/video/ziRZNtozw8g/video.html
Didn't one mine explode in the 1950s? I heard that there is one left, which did not go off.
Thank you for watching. Yes, I believe in 1951. I have found where that was and there is no trace of it. Just a field. There is still one of the large Messines mines directly under a farm. Across the western front there are dozens of these unexploded mines still in situ. Too dangerous to remove them.
Exploded due to a lightning strike, killed a cow. Near Ploegsteert, where they claim to be part of the Christmas truce. In those fields near there is still a mine unexploded and a bit further towards Messine there's an unexploded one near a farm
Amazing how despite the WW1 destruction, So many of the 17th, 18th & 19th Century Star Fort Defences around Ypres are still visible in the Landscape.
Check it out:- www.fortified-places.com/ypres/default.htm
Thank you for watching.
Why not fenced in to keep out people and cows?
Thank you for watching. One can only speculate why.
Another great video Sir, ty. The only thing I would ask if you ever go back is to maybe have a few more walk arounds or eye level views? Thankyou
Thank you for watching. I agree it would be better to mix ground level views with the drone.
I am going to film Hill 70 next trip. I will get both aerial and ground footage and edit them together.
@@StevenUpton14-18 Excellent, look forward to it. How many times have you been to the 'front lines'?
I can’t say how many times, but what I can say is that I have been to almost every mile of the Western Front from the North Sea to the Swiss border.
@@StevenUpton14-18 nice. I'm definitely gonna make a visit when I move back to the UK. Cheers!
I wonder if those tunnels still exist?
Thank you for watching. Many tunnels do still exist. But I do not know about these specific ones.
The New Zealander's captured Messines on 7 June, by 0730.
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love your work ,forgive you for not pronouncing Ypres ,EEEE Per Rer which is the correct way
Thank you for watching.
@@StevenUpton14-18 only say this as have had many conversations with Belgians ,who always correct me ,and pretend they dont know where EEEEps is when i start to ask them about it ,before saying EE per rer like im a dumb englishman
@@gsmith6230 - I travel a lot and make no apologies for not being able to pronounce Belgian and French place names correctly. I would like to hear them pronounce the name of a railway station on Anglesey, North Wales: llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
@@StevenUpton14-18 ill be honest I get more trouble with the Welsh correcting me on the towns names than Belgium lol
Good old aussies, you can always depend on them. apart from the ashes of course!
Thank you for watching.
Did this particular Canadian happen to be Herbert McBride?
Thank you for watching. I’m sorry I cannot now remember.
To remember the men who not only lost their lives but lost so much of their life in the cold and wet .how miserable they must have been .now it's all desert fighting and will be long into the future
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cool video, very intressting videos :)))
Thank you for watching.