Accident Review North Perry B36TC No Good Options on Takeoff
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- FlyWire unpacks the B36TC takeoff accident at North Perry Airport. There were no good options.
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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33 years ago my wife was flying by herself when her engine failed on takeoff. She tried to do exactly what this pilot tried to do with the same result. The odd thing was the day before the accident I discussed what I would do in exactly that situation. I remember telling her to fly the airplane until she got the wheels on the ground and then it would be like being in a car wreck and she would have a chance to survive. She didn't do that. She tried to return to the same runway she had just departed from and ended up stalling the aircraft and going inverted. Not a good ending. You will probably never know it when it happens but your videos may actually save someones life every once in awhile...
Thanks Elmer! I’m so sorry for your loss!
Im sorry for your tragic loss. Thanks for sharing such a personal story in hopes of helping others. 👍
Sorry for your loss
Very sad, man. Glad you shared tho. I notice this is a channel for serious minded people who like to learn.
Very sorry for your loss- Yet, your story? Reinforces EXACTLY what Scott Perdue was saying- TALKING about it, just "knowing" what to do, will NEVER be enough.
It must be put into action, even if only on a simulator. People need to have it "ingrained in their brain", so it becomes NATURAL, to do the opposite, of what your "feelings" are telling you to do- and this? Is just to have a chance, as you told your wife.
Most times, the outcome will NOT be a fun one. But in one of these? There's a chance of a future, for the pilot who "fly's the plane", all the way down.
Scott you do a great job of talking about these things without sounding like the Monday morning quarterback. Keep it up.
I appreciate that!
Scott gives good advice and lots of it, very comprehensive.
I really think about what Scott says and I think the only way to be ready for an engine out situation at the most critical time, which is takeoff, is to actually practice it, except at higher altitude.
One way to do this is to use a cloud layer to simulate the ground, and for VFRpilots this is a problem.
Of course you can practice land out on a simulator pc simulator And that is certainly better than nothing.
Over and over again we see crashes like this where instinct takes over against training and the pilot pulls back on the yoke (or stick) In a futile attempt to stretch the glide and the aircraft stalls with loss of control and rapid loss of altitude.
Only repetitive training can overcome wrongful instinct.
I do have one question regarding the idea of flying as long as you can. Scott recommends this on a glide situation, but sometimes I think that this gets a pilot in a bad situation where he thinks he can stretch a glide to a distant land out position.
In some scenarios I think it is much better to find a place to land out that you know you can easily reach and then find a way to make it there safely, and in my view that would be to orient properly for landing at an easily reachable destination, come in high, and slip down at the last moment before flaring out for a landing. This you can practice at a regular airport. I’ve practiced it many times. It’s actually fun, but don’t practice it with passengers because it’ll scare the hell out of them.
FlyWire- scott perdue: dear Scott: I truly appreciate the superb analysis and good advice you provide for general aviation pilots.
I have a particular question for you regarding land out after engine failure on takeoff, or basically in just about any scenario.
I see that The prevalent training recommendation is to “fly as long as you can.“
I don’t think this is necessarily the best thing to do.
I think the best thing to do is to quickly identify the best land out site that is close by and easily reachable, I mean very easily reachable, not a stretch.
Then immediately orient the aircraft for landing approach, so here I mean of course the right direction to come in for a landing.
Purposely come in high, so that you know that you are going to reach the destination and therefore you will not be tempted to stretch it, and then instinctively stall it.
Finally, using a combination of flaps and most importantly, a slip maneuver, drop the Aircraft down to the proper glideslope just prior to landing, then flare out and land.
In this scenario there is never the temptation, the instinctive temptation that is hard to resist, which is to pull back on the yoke (or stick), and subsequently stall it.
Since it is Almost always a stall that kills everyone in one of these land out, engine failure situation, it seems to me that it is best to fly the aircraft in a way that best avoid the temptation to stall, A very real temptation that all the evidence suggest is very difficult for ordinary pilots to resist.
And I’m going to say it one more time, in my meager flight experience as a private pilot, I loved to practice basic flight maneuvers, and I found the slip maneuver an Easy to fly situation, and very helpful in Landing safely when the approach is too high. We might as well expand this versatile flight maneuver to improve the odds of achieving a successful land out.
Finally, I don’t watch a lot of TV but I have seen these Alaska type TV programs where they show Bush pilots landing on short runway situation, basically in fields or along side rivers, and the film often shows them slipping down rapidly right before flaring out and landing. There are no better pilots for landing situation than bush pilots, their daily life depends on it. What I am suggesting is what they do every single day of work.
Great job Scott
As there are densely populated areas around many airports It would great to have discussion on where to land. What to aim for eg streets or yards or parking lots. And obstacles to avoid cars telephone poles and power lines versus telephone wires ...and the consequences of hitting each do they break can you fly through them? You don’t want the burden of deciding these things when the engine quits.
I had a similar situation in that my first engine failure was due to a period of low usage of the aircraft for a couple of years. I did run it 2 or 3 times a month until it got up to normal operating temp. But after the engine failure I found out it would take running the engine about 45 minutes longer to remove all the moisture. The aircraft was based at MSY, New Orleans International. The main difference was that I was at cruise altitude of 7,500 feet MSL near the north end of Toledo Bend Lake on the Louisiana - Texas border. I was VRF with flight following from, If I remember correctly, Houston Center.
I notified the controller of my issue, I had lose oil pressure and my oil temp had maxed out the gauge. As the engine was still running I just pulled it back to idle. I asked for vectors to an airport that I knew was at my 12 O’clock as my flight path was going to take me right over that airport. He told me it was, “12 O’clock and 14 miles. But at your 7 O’clock and 9 miles is Center, TX.” As he said 9 miles I turned left and asked him for vectors. Which he gave me and he stayed with me until I had the airport in sight and on final. I landed safely and parked at a tie-down spot near the terminal. When I got to the terminal building the out side pay phone was ringing. I answered it and it was the controller that had given me the vectors. He was checking to see if I had landed safely. I told him that I was the one he vectored and again thanked him for his help.
Just a short note to say how much I appreciate these videos. They are educational in the best of ways. I have been flying for nearly 30 years (95% of those on Mooneys) but had to unfortunately hang my hat this year and I miss it very much. Watching your videos help me stay connected to the world of aviation. Thank you.
“What am I willing to bet my life on?” Fair question, to which should be added, ‘What am I willing to bet somebody else’s life on?’ Great presentation full of vital information which will save lives.
Former instructor here. These videos are gold, wish I'd had you in the flight office back in my day.
"Wishful thinking isn't going to change..."
You could have said that 10 more times and it wouldn't have been too many.
1000 more times even, because this guy and the next who will lose an engine won’t even be aware of this channel or seen one of these videos.
Oh man. Hearing a child passed in the SUV is devastating. Obviously I feel for the aircraft occupants too.
Yeah that one made me gasp a bit and put my head down....rest in peace guys....blue skies
I don't.
Yeah, looks like the poor kid took a prop hit directly. Luckily he probably didnt know what hit him.
Obviously
@@redwatch1100 wow. I didn't look at the slow-mo hard enough. Yes, a mixed blessing on that prop strike: at least it was quick.
Frankly, not so much sympathy for the owner pilot. He got off easy. (in this world)
I have an old WW1 training poster saying that if your engine quits on takeoff, do NOT turn around but do the best you can out ahead. It's illustrated with a wrecked RE-8. So for over 100 years, since practically the dawn of aviation, this situation has been a known killer and wise folks have been preaching about it. Yet still today it happens. So there's obviously a great disconnect between the wisdom of the ages and the pilots of essentially forever. This aught to be something learned from day 1 of starting to fly. But apparently it isn't.
We see this so much, where commercial and residential development has occurred right up to the airport perimeter fence.
My father's flight instructor always told him to always be looking for a place to land. And he was told the same thing, hit as slowly as possible....and pretty much every thing you said.
Another thing is....do not worry about saving the plane, save yourself.
And that advice and training, enabled my dad to survive a muffed go around. The Cessna was totaled, but he survived.
Another good video, explained in layman's terms.
And one more thing. If the black SUV had been a second faster, or the airplane a second later...
I suspect people who hang around airports have direct or indirect stories of accidents, we all can get this experience from the internet recently.
When I interviewed for a glider towing job back in the early 80's, the glider instructor/flight school owner asked me to make a simulated 180 turn back after takeoff, simulating an engine failue at altitude, and to loose as little altitude in the 180 degree turn as possible. I used about 30 degrees of bank and airspeed around 20 kts. above stall. Pitch slightly below the horizon. We repeated the maneuver, this time the instructor demonstrated. At engine failure, he simultaneously dumped the nose well below the horizon and banked left to at least 60 degrees of bank angle, possibly more, very aggressively and without hesitation as soon as I pulled the engine. We lost far less altitude in the turn than I did. We were on a reciprocal 180 degree heading before I could really even make sense of it. He stated my method, prancing around the turn, at low altitude with adrenaline pumping in a real engine failure after takeoff 180 turn back scenario would almost surely result in a stall. He said if you want to make the 180 degree turn and loose as little altitude as possible, you must reduce the amount of time it takes to make the turn, IE high bank angle and Unload the wing with severe nose down pitch to avoid a stall. He was an experienced glider instructor, so I assume he knew what he was talking about. He flys without an engine full time. Later, I could never bring myself to actually teach such a method to my students for obvious reasons. The POH advises to land straight ahead, using shallow bank to avoid obstacles. Scott or anyone please opine.
Your instructor was a good one. See my 'Impossible Turn' video.
David Sine
I think that your incident and training should be noted that the engine was not shut down, it was at idle. Little thrust gives more performance than no thrust or even a seized engine which gives more drag. Additional the skill of the pilot should be taken into account. A student on a solo flight or an airline pilot? To teach a turn back to the field to both of those individuals would certainly have different outcomes. At the same time removing an option may not be the wisest solution either. For example, a low takeoff wherein you buildup speed then start climbing, known as zooming the plane or trading airspeed for altitude could have you in a better position to do a reversal if needed- or could it. Too many variables and that’s why airmanship is priceless. Even with my skill, when the engine quits all i want to do is get on the ground safely. I don’t cares who’s ground it is.
@@artemas33 The take away for me was... If you want to make a 180 turn back, (which actually requires more than 180 of heading change to line up with the runway centerline and land in the opposite direction), from an engine failue on upwind, you need to imploy a steep bank angle, 60 degrees plus, and an extreme nose down pitch attitude to make the turn if your goal is to loose as little altitude as possible in the turn. That being said, such a maneuver, especially if executed at an altitude that's low to the ground, is never going to be recommended in any POH or FAA approved training guide. Which recommends landing straight ahead, using shallow banks to avoid obstacles for single engine aircraft. I would never consider or recommend teaching anything other than that. However, I will admit, I demonstrated the maneuver with one student 30 years ago. Unfortunately, we easly made it back to the runway and were able to land in the opposite direction. I say "unfortunately", because I considered that exercise nothing but a complete negative training event. You know exactly what this, now private pilot, is highly likely to do if he ever encounters an actual engine failure on takeoff, right? Dispite the fact that I told him not to try it in a real emergency. A demonstration that's Impossible to unteach unfortunately. I would have preferred to have had the maneuver result in a position which would have resulted in an obvious off airport landing, well short of the runway. I hesitate to even bring it up here because of the possible negative consequences when a pilot tries it after reading this thread even. Controlled flight into the ground with wings level is always preferable to a stall spin at low altitude, obviously. Another consideration is what family members or a jury are going to think of an instructor who thought teaching such an extreme, non recommended maneuver at low altitude after it results in an unsuccessful and tragic outcome.
@@davidsine4390 60 bank on a glider, 45 bank on a normal single engine USA GA at Vglide or slightly lower. And to the opposite runway is a Question Mark Shaped Turnback. Total 270 degrees of turning.
Excellent discussion that hopefully will be a life-saver for one of us some day. You honor those lost by not sensationalizing the incident, but by trying to educate pilots about how to prepare for and handle emergencies such as this. Thank you for handling a difficult topic with dignity and grace.
I got my private pilot at North Perry 30 years ago. I always had a plan of a street or between houses if my engine stopped. RIP to the victims.
Thanks Scott your analysis is clear and unbiased and not emotional I always appreciate that.
My heart sunk when I saw this video the day of the crash.
It's hard for me to conceive how focused a pilot has to be at all times even when the airplane is in the hanger.
Looking forward to the maintenance episode.
Hats off to all that fly in the sky!
My god, the chances of hitting that car are so low you can’t even count the zeros. Just think, had the engine failed or a number of other things been initiated just 1 second later and that is prevented. Better yet, the pilots fly the airplane into a better situation. The loss of the pilots is sad (because this was preventable), but the loss of the child in that car is an unimaginable tragedy. Another great job Scott, thank you.
terrible...I don't think I'll ever get over hearing it was a child killed
Devastating and terrifying video sequence of the accident. Terrible loss of life. We should never let accidents like this be a wasted opportunities to learn and to try and prevent further similar accidents from happening. RIP.
Jeff, you're absolutely correct about airplanes not liking to sit. The -6 TOs always go into detail about how to take care of airplanes going hangar queen and they're almost never happy when we first get them back on the flying schedule.
I have read about this so many times over the past 45 years, ALL with the same result. Whether it be single-engine or multi. I have drummed this into my head to land STRAIGHT AHEAD, just like Scott mentioned. I think of it this way... If the engine quits then screw the airplane, you have to make sure that you can safely walk away after you touch down. This turning back is so prevalent with one engine out on a multiengine plane. Many small multiengine planes can't maintain altitude with an engine out, so you are going down, plus the sink rate is even worse than with single engine planes. Please don't turn back if you are too low.
I love following it when you describe the different things that could’ve been done and to keep us thinking outside the box and ahead of time with back up plans and such. you make it easy to understand these things and I’ve been watching crash investigations for a long long time.
Thanks, Dave!
It is very noble to honor loss of life by teaching others in order to perhaps have a better outcome should they have a similar failure. “We won’t live long enough to make all the mistakes on our own. Learn from others mistakes.” -someone wiser than me
Thanks for the review. Keep them coming.
I grew up a few miles from North Perry Airport and learned to fly there in 1978. Taking off towards the east is the most common takeoff direction due to the prevailing winds. Back then the neighborhood was as close as it is now. An engine failure on takeoff in a trainer could mean landing within the airport boundary but in anything faster probably landing on a street in the neighborhood to the east. I can recall several fatal accidents which occurred towards the east and south of the airport. In the past I recall cries from residents wanting the airport to be closed due to safety concerns. The opposing argument was the airport was here first. The airport was built in the 1940's and used as a naval training station. Back then residential development was several miles to the east and nothing close to the airport. Residential development in this part of South Florida went from east to west. Unfortunately developers built towards the west until they reached the airport boundary as land is at a premium It's too bad a larger buffer wasn't created around the airport to allow for safer operations, and to mitigate tragedies like this one.
This was incredibly helpful and thought provoking! “Time ages things.” Great video and well worth your time making it! Thanks
Scott, thanks for this video and the ongoing discussion. (I saw the second video yesterday and then came back to this one today.) This is a hugely important topic, and one which pilots need to have front and center in our brains. We hope for the best every time we put in power at the beginning of each takeoff roll, but we NEED to plan for the worst possible scenario. Your “impossible turn” videos should be mandatory viewing fro every PP student in my opinion. My flight planning, preflight briefing, and mindset have been changed dramatically by your videos on this topic over the past year. I’m a 9-year PP with just under 800 hrs and very close to completing my IFR cert as I write this. I consider your videos on this every bit as important as the dual instruction I’ve received over the past 3 years. Keep up the good work, sir.
James, I am thrilled that you found my videos helpful. That is the exact reason I do them!
Thanks so much for this... As a life long (retired) airline pilot and more to the point CFI, I can't begin to say how much I drilled this "impossible turn" into my students.... Heck with the corn and beans, wiped out landing gear etc. Those don't matter, but you do... Again I appreciate you brothet... Oh, and thanks for not using your platform for trashing the NTSB. lol
Thanks David.
You're helping keep me and other pilots and thier passengers alive. Thanks a million for your videos.
Thanks Scott, great info. And reminder. To add to the sequence, before the 36 entered the video captured by the ring cam it had already struck a power pole to the right of the yellow house. At that point the plane was no longer flying. From a pilot’s perspective they’re invisible from the air.
I remember watching an interview with Sully”s wife and she said every time she flew with him he was always scouting for a place to land while in wings level flight. Always have plan a and a plan b,c,d,e, and g! Way different than being on the ground you have a lot more options with gravity on your side!
I'm not a pilot but when I go up with others that's what I'm doing too.
Most pilots do the same
Scott Perdue is the go to guy for accident reviews.
Thanks Ruben!
Great lesson Gunny! Looking forward to your “when to overhaul” video. Thanks for all you do. Dennis Dabney
You bet!
Gunnery sergeant?!!! I thought Scott was some kind of powder blue jet jockey.
Yours is the second independent analysis to reach the same conclusion, but you’re the first I’ve seen to describe the history of the aircraft.
Somebody must have had a ton of money to purchase a new plane and then leave it sitting unused for such long stretches of time
Excellent summary of this accident. I fly out of HWO and truly appreciate the points brought up here.
I was waiting for Scott to do a video on the north perry accident. He didn't disappoint.
I learned to fly in Cessna 150 at North Perry in 1962 when it was an uncontrolled wagon wheel field There was hardly a house close to the field then A great place to learn then yet I saw a midair crash on final due to pilot errors
I was not aware of this tragic accident. Your analysis is spot on I believe and ‘critical analyzing’ as a constant is THE definition of a GOOD and reputable pilot. Prayers for all those involved. New sub..
Great analysis and presentation! Keep up the good work!!!
Their option was to abort the take off. I fly out of North Perry and I’m familiar with the area. While I did not witness the crash, an eye wittiness told me the engine was already coughing during the take off run. As unbelievable as it is, what happened seem to support his story. They could not climb and were barely above a hundred feet before making that right turn. Mid turn, the coughing engine quits.. and the rest.. we can see on video.
That certainly adds another (very bad) element to his accident.
I love you're saying: "You have to accept reality".
First time viewer. Liked and Subscibed. You explain this incident with such grace and ease to understand. Thank You!
Oops, I hit send by mistake so here is part 2. I made it back to New Orleans later that evening and left for a planned vacation the next day. About 3 or 4 weeks later my wife and I drove back to Center, Texas with a trailer, an engine hoist, and all my tools. When I arrived at the airport the manager offered to let me use one of their pipe and tin open front T hangers. Like usual every one we met at the Center, TX airport was very friendly and helpful. I never got a bill for the use of the hanger. I pulled the engine, a Lycoming O-360, along with everything else firewall forward. I had set up a place in my garage to tear down the engine.
The lose of oil pressure was due to the corse oil suction screen filling up with mostly aluminum chips. A piston and piston pin plug was tearing up. The plug which normally would be about an inch in diameter and about 3/4 of an inch thick was about the size of a nickel and 3/16 of an inch thick. That piston pin hole which would normally be about an inch in diameter was elongated to almost two inches. The face of all the cam followers was heavily pitted from corrosion, and was worst than the worst example pictured in the overhaul manual.
All of the cam lobes were very heavily worn down by the pitted face of the cam followers, to the point there was sharp edges perturbing from all of the lobes’ sides. They were sharp enough to cut me. The crank shaft did have a few scratches and with the minimum turning of .006 of an inch it was still serviceable. I had treated the engine with Slick 50 and there was not a burn spot on any part. Even though the engine had kept running at idle for around 15 minutes from the time I lost oil pressure until I shut it down on the ramp.
I did a total overhaul on the engine in my garage. It took several months and a close friend who was an A&P mechanic with Inspection Authority, who had prepped me for my A&P, helped with the final assembly. I had been an aircraft mechanic / crew chief on C-130s in the Air Force. I also spent a lot of time talking with the tech reps at Lycoming.
My wife and I loaded everything back on the trailer and went back to Center, TX. After a couple long days of putting everything back together the engine started on the third blade. Did a couple steps of the ground break-in procedure then finished it the next day. The following day I spend several hours flying circles around the airport. The next day I flew it to the paint shop, which was my original destination.
When it was finished we delivered a friends aircraft, with our wives, to the paint shop and we flew back in our freshly painted Cherokee 180. Upon arrival back to our airport in Reserve, LA about 20 miles west of MSY, we were met by a flight of 4 other aircraft from our EAA chapter about 25 to 30 miles out. We joined up in a loose V formation 2 on each of my wings. We flew down the runway in formation doing a military style break and landing in trail. The BBQ with all the trimmings was ready in the hanger and we had another party like we did nearly every Saturday. Aviation friends are the best.
NOTE: A bunch of us from our EAA chapter and others had taken some lessons from a military flight instructor on flying in formation. And we practiced flying in formation on our $150 hamburger fly outs. Even filing flight plans as a group of, how ever many was going, and only the lead aircraft squeaking on their transponder.
All this happened because, even though I was doing what I had been told by experts, what to do while the airplane was not flying, the engine was not run long enough to get all the moisture out of the engine. Especially in a very humid climate. Corrosion had attacked many internal parts. Luckily, and thanks to God and my many instructors over the years, my out come was much different than those in this report. May they rest in piece.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you Scott, the life you save may be one of us listening! Bob
Brilliant discussion. I don't know if it's different in the U.S. but in Canada when I was a student pilot the BTO briefing was always to land pretty well strait ahead in control flight and no turning back to the field in the event of an engine out scenario which we practiced over and over again(simulated of course) . This video will save lives.
Great video and discussion Scott. I have time in the B36 and while it can be deceiving that it's just another A36 - it's NOT! It has a much heavier feel, it does not accelerate as quickly as an A36 and it slows down rapidly and comes out of the sky quickly when the power is reduced below 17 inches. For takeoff, not only is the correct MP important, but the proper Fuel Flow on takeoff is, in my opinion, the most critical parameter to keeping that engine running properly! This was indeed a tragedy, my thoughts and prayers go out to those who lost loved ones from this event.
True Ron, I left those points on the table for this video.
Excelente analysis and list of what to do and not to do, thank you sir for making this video and all of the others on your channel.
Exceptional video. I loved your explanation of TBO on condition, perfectly expressed!
another great write up. shared! Thankyou Scott
Good Video.
I have 1000hrs at HWO as a CFI and Contract Pilot. 10L/R have nowhere to land until you’re high enough to turn back or make the highway. From V1 to that point you are going to slam into something. Those roads you mentioned always have cars, power lines, and sometimes giant construction dumpsters. Most interesting conversation with students on takeoff would be, “hey look outside,... Where we landing if the engine quits?” Crickets. That 180 turn is hard too because those parks have huge light poles you have to fly around to make the turn.
The opposite direction runways have a few golf courses, retention ponds and bigger but busier roads.
I honestly can’t fault them much for what they tried once the engine quit. RIP to those who lost their lives.
I am based here, commercial helicopter side. Can look at google maps or satellite all you want, you don’t understand how small these residential roads are till you have driven around a bit. And with all the poles, utilities, trees, etc. low altitude failure, you’re not making it to pines, pembroke, and university is always crazy busy. No way I’m going for anything but the field here, 1s/19s are only slightly better. Not knocking the video whatsoever, because it is spot on, and he mentions that “probably isn’t gonna happen”. It’s just one of those places, maps do no justice for all the hazards. Densely populated might be an understatement for this place. Again, great video, great info. Well done.
Sad tragedy.
Kind regards to the families and friends of those involved.
Sad tragedy,
Thanks for telling us how to learn from this accident.
Cheers from the French alps america
One point I’d like to make is the location on the runway when we begin our takeoff roll. Many a time when taking off from a long runway, people whose aircraft only needs a fraction of the length to takeoff, will takeoff from the second half instead of the first. Maybe they want to cut the taxi time down or save gas by avoiding a longer taxi. Beginning takeoff at the beginning increases the height and energy to a much earlier point.
Thanks for your thoughts and expertise on these topics.
I get a lot of my information from yourself, and Juan Brown, who, if you've not seen it, stole his child's Pirate ship, and did an outstanding job, covering and explaining the Ever Given / Suez Canal debacle, which is now finally free and moving.
I couldn't have found two better, and those you both use/recommend, are usually just as stellar. This was an extremely tragic situation, and your explanation and layout, imo, is brilliant. One day, you might get a little more comfortable in front of the camera- but that also keeps you on your toes, just like every pilot should be. Besides, it shows your "Human" side, and that? Makes your video's even more powerful, imo- and as an actual "Realist". More times than not, it's the simple things, easily forgotten or set aside, that end lives, or destroy them.
All we can do, is strip-out the very best information possible, and, hopefully, learn & grow, as a result of doing so, in an attempt at keeping these things, from happening in the same way, in the future.
Thanks for all you do.
I practiced the "impossible turn" during my last flight review. I lost 850 feet during that turn with no power. There is no way I would have made it back to the airport.
Another good video....hard to watch, but a good video. Gives a guy a LOT to think about. Keep up the good work.
Excellent video, great points, thanks!
This rings true for me-I'd been flying since teens, my dad was a Flight Engineer for Pan Am, I grew up on airports. But when I bought my first plane, a '63 Mooney, I kind of forgot a lot of what I knew. More realistically I let what I thought was a good deal blur my judgement. A trusted A&P IA was selling the old bird for his friend who was also an A&P who was suffering dementia. My friend had done all the annuals on it for years, including previous owners. The A&P owner had done all the work under his ownership. He had purchased it from a group who had managed to land it gear up twice in a year. I was reassured by my friend that the A&P owner had meticulously maintained it, even though physically it was pretty rough. And the engine was low time after being overhauled following the gear up(s) which was done many years prior which was supposed to be reassuring. I didn't have a report of exactly what was done and replaced during the 'overhauls.' I bought it thinking I'd have something to fly and I would restore it as I went, trying to do as much to it as I could, under supervision. First surprise was the fuel tanks leaked like a sieve. Reseal. During my first annual I found broken engine mount (subject to recurring AD) broken flap mount (AD). I spent HOURS trying to get rusted screws holding inspection covers off. Obviously they hadn't been opened in years. I found lots of logbook entries where the owner tried to get the plane in rig-adjusting flaps to lift a heavy wing, etc. There was an AD on aileron control rods, and I took the opportunity to rig the plane properly, and it became a joy to fly. Over a couple of years I got the plane flying and looking right. Then, when flying with my wife and 3 year old son, the engine puked. Luckily although I wasn't that high, I had a lot of options, flat fields ahead, and an airport behind. Glider training kicked in and I landed on the airport, rolling off the runway and right up to the gas pit. When I got out, expecting to see oil everywhere but didn't, I pulled the prop through and it felt like a toy airplane. I could just spin it. Crankcase was full of large chunks-swallowed a valve and tore it up. I later learned that the engine shop who did the work was known for taking shortcuts, and not knowing exactly what they had done not sure it actually counted as a major overhaul versus just a TDI. That airplane taught me a lot of valuable lessons, luckily it only cost me money. Like you Scott I have become much more conservative with my maintenance decisions.
This one sounds to me like there was a lot of "gundecked" (Navy slang for: signed as complete, no work done) maintenance and anything those A&Ps touched on any aircraft needs reinspection.
Great video as always.
It’s ALWAYS better to have a controlled crash in a bad place than an uncontrolled crash virtually ANYWHERE, and that’s including within an airport perimeter.
Thanks for the video Mr Perdue, always interesting to listen to. I think, or believe, there are airports out there that, in some cases, depending on the rwy in use, the chances of surviving an eng failure right after t/o are minimal. Like in this case, landing straight ahead on that narrow populated street with no injuries or casualties, would be almost a miracle.
Another great presentation, Scott. Thank you.
Excellent video Scott. Love your show.
As always . . . Thanks Scott . . . Bob
Thanks for video! Totally agree with overhaul recommendation, best!
Great information Scott. Did a little bit of my helicopter 🚁 training at North Perry as late as May 2020. Tragic event indeed 😢 My condolences to all those involved & their families 🙏
As always, great review and tips...
Scott tells it like it is.. you need Plan B in case things go sideways, always fly the airplane first. I'm amazed at how many accidents result from pilots not planning for emergencies before hand. As airline pilots do you have to brief each takeoff. In this case it's really simple, engine failure below 400ft means land straight ahead. Saying it to yourself on each takeoff will put you in the proper mindset, and you won't have to make a split second decision that could be wrong. You could also do some practice at a high altitude to convince yourself how much altitude you will need to turn back.
I got my license there in the 80's @ Savco. My instructor gave me an engine out drill after departing north and there was just this water tower in the way....I remember he said it was better to smack the tower than stall it and drop out of the sky. Looks like it's even worse now with the growth around the field. Terrifying video....RIP.
Pure Excellence!! Thank you. May all pilots see this and take it to heart.
Well said!
Roger on "regular usage to help mechanical engine integrity"
I recently took my aging but nice maintained 2002 Mercedes Benz ML500 (has V-8) for a long roundtrip to Houston 270 miles.
Hadn't done one that long in 2 years.
(Just around our small town / county for 10-20 miles)
I CAN'T believe how much happier this 19 year old engine & even the whole SUV feels even sounds !
Its like the Heat & Continuous operation literally BURNS UP & BLOWS OUT junk that otherwise crusts & chokes up.
Im sure this effect is even MORE pronounced in an Airplane due to its elevated infrequency of use...
Thanks for your analysis, Scott.
What a tragic accident, especially sad for the passenger in the car. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time
Excellent evaluation after such a tragic event. Having a plan, as opposed to being caught off guard or “wishful thinking”, is an absolute in my piloting. I do so whether I’m PIC or a passenger. Including that plan in my verbal preflight is an every time occurrence, whether I’m alone or seats full.
A couple years ago, I went sailing with a retired NWA Captain on his Catalina 30. Before we left the dock, he called a "time out" to do a safety briefing. In that few minutes, my respect for him was even greater due to his professional behavior. The other passenger and I knew we were in good hands, and had a ball! Thanks, Capt. Tim!
Great presentation Scott as always.
Great video, Scott; thanks.
Excellent analysis.
One thing I've found repeatedly: airplanes that reach the ground wings-level controlled flight tend to have surviveable accidents (greater than 90% survival rate is my guess). Airplanes that reach the ground in a steep bank, or a stall/spin are almost never surviveable.
I had a friend that fired up his Taylorcraft after two years of sitting without doing any major checks. Takeoff was OK, climbed above 60 ft pine trees then the engine stopped. Attempted to 180 and return to the field...Not enough altitude and clipped a tree and stalled to the ground. Luckily the pilot and passenger survived with one only having a broken arm. Come to find out it was something as basic to check for as water in the fuel system.
Excellent analysis, measured, objective.
Thanks for your video. Very informative and helpful.
Liked because you pointed to your next videos at the end. Not bad sir
Also a private pilot and appreciate the solid story about having a saftey type mindset when flying.
Your dissertation is quite right on. I grew up on that airport back in the '60s and '70s, got my license at 17, my multi-engine two weeks later and years later I've got 250 hours on a v35 turbo C Bonanza and my commercial. One of the things that could have resolved this whole scenario was is for years they've been trying to do displaced thresholds for take off only on this airport back up against the fence so aircraft are higher and faster in case something like this happens. A displaced threshold would have moved the aircraft back 800 ft at least. In this scenario the aircraft would have impacted 800 ft onto the airport property or if the pilot could have maintained control a nice belly landing and spared the child in the SUV. Another rule I've always followed was lessons taught by the great Bob Hoover speed is energy it gives you time to do things so fly it fast and hot coming out of the hole if you're high and slow you have to make a decision right now and dive the airplane to maintain flight control. I also grew up in Pembroke Pines not too far from where the crash was 9th Street is one of the wider streets and not too heavily traveled by traffic although there are wires crossing it the chances would have been better just to land on 9th Street. That would have been my choice if I was low and slow.
realistically, in my opinion, at an airport like this it would be wise to count the runway threshold as very much displaced, and not take off unless you are able to be at a good altitude before crossing the perimeter of the field... soviet single engine crop-dusters would often have a circuit over the airfield before they reach a certain altitude (though poor production quality did mean engine failure was much more common)
Back when I fixed Televisions more than one customer needed a picture tube. When asked if they would have no more problems, I said yes!
You have one new part out of several hundred others, various kinds of sensitive, electronics that are just as old as the now shorted, gassy or dead picture tube and, some few will fail at any time.
They WILL fail.
Fly regularly, maintenance has to be done at regular intervals. Not using it does not excuse zero maintenance.
I know that you are referring to a Beechcraft light airplane, and yet every time you say B36, I am back in 1955 in El Paso Texas and living on Biggs Air Force Base, and a huge B-36 Peacemaker is thundering (and whistling) above my head, and as a giant shadow briefly whoops by, the windows and walls of the houses vibrate at precisely that resonant RPM of the engines and I am overwhelmed.
Two key words: energy management!
That’s an incomplete statement. It’s “energy management..... to the point of impact.”
@@flitetym Energy management are two key words that apply to the whole flight. In my flight instructor days, I taught students how to crash.
Excellent discussion. Thanks!
Enjoyed the video, Scott. One thing that perhaps you can talk about in another video is the decision process before the takeoff.
When I asked my first CFI why airplane piston engines seemed to fail far more often than car engines, he said it was because car engines are run more regularly. Also, in a dead stick situation keep the plane flying in controlled flight and never try to stretch a glide. You're more likely to survive controlled flight into a fence than a stall at even thirty feet agl.
Add to that that car engines run about 10-20% power, airplane engines typically run at 55-75% power.
Great video as always. How about one on the recent engine out you just had? First time I've heard you mention it.
I am aware of a 200 hp Arrow that had a new engine. It sat in the hanger for untouched for 10 yrs. When it was taken out the cylinder had low compression due to corrosion. It was not flyable.
Wonderful job explaining. Having the altitude and airspeed would be great to have ... Bad day for all.
Scott, words of wisdom is what you have. I Subscribed!!!
Thank you for the no bullshit account. I've got some great quotes from you that I can apply to other facets of life.
Great content, keep it up!
Great video for us to learn and remain vigilant with a plan.
Great content! Happy to be a Patreon supporter.
Thanks Don!
Good critique you have really explained this well .
Excellent analysis and a good reminder.
I lived about a mile east of the airport in the mid 1960's...I loved the many hours spent at that airport. Circle A and other activities.
"Wishful thinking can not change Newton's laws"
I started in gliders, Had a Skyhawk that went to crap 500' off the runway. Nothing but woods ahead I didn't have any good choices and still had partial power so I turned and flew a crop dusters pattern back. Engine let go on downwind. Came in fast but got it down easy. Didn't even recall calling maday but was told I did after. I don't think I would have handled it the same without glider training and I recommend it to anyone starting out. Came to find out the A&P never safety wired the mags. You just never know when it will happen to you. As said practice it often and fly those tough approaches so when it comes your ready.
"Never safety wired the mags." It was a 172N?
@@mattj65816 Not sure think it was an M. Was 1978 when it happened and it wasn't a new model. It just had 100 hour and the A&P copped to it after I landed. From my understanding it takes a few passes to get the timing right on the old 320's and he was a one man band at a busy training field.
@@tylerdurden2644 Ah, I assumed it was an "N" due to that double magneto--if one is installed incorrectly, then they're both installed incorrectly. Not the greatest design.
Excellent video. Lot's to think about.
Thanks again Scott - Well said !
Looking forward to "TBO & Beyond" video from you. . .
Average GA aircraft is only flown 50 hours per year (approx 4 hours/mo)?
Did I hear that correctly?
Good video. Thanks. Flying about 100 hours a year, I have never...ever... achieved TBO on a big Continental engine. There's always been a reason to OH (flat cylinders, oil consumption, case cracks, etc). Looking at hours (instead of years in service) may seem reassuring but the engine will need work when it needs work. Not when your schedule says it needs work.
RE an engine issue on departure, my plan has always been a return to the runway only when I have 1000' AGL in the bank. Less than that I'm finding something soft and inexpensive out ahead to hit. The moment the engine stops in the air (I have had one, a Continental E225, do that) the airplane belongs to the insurance company and my goal is to survive in order to collect on the policy.
I have had much better experience (or luck) with big Lycomings. That said, my last big Lycoming (in an airplane I sold) stopped making power at 800 AGL departing Truckee, California. The engine, with under 500 hours, was fine but the fuel system got altered after I sold it and starved that good engine for avgas. The pilot, planning a sightseeing excursion around Lake Tahoe with two pax, ignored the flat terrain below him (rare in the high Sierra) and attempted a return to the runway. He stalled and spun in from low altitude.
The airframe was robust and intact. But the sudden stoppage killed the pilot, a passenger, and paralyzed the other for life.
Overhaul on your schedule. Don't wait to discover you have to. Plan for and practice engine outs on departure. And never value the airframe higher than your life, the lives of your passengers, or the people on the ground.
Well said Robin!!
The legacy engines, Continental, Lycoming, and I guess UL engines seem to have old engine problems as you state like leaking oil, case issues, carburetor use. Why do these companies still have problems like these? Newer engines with modern metals should never leak, come apart or break like these engines do. Do they use modern components or maybe it’s something unique to aviation with props or harmonics maybe? I think UL has done some modernization but from comments on CZcams it seems that continental and lycoming use very old technology and parts which cause the problems they have. Maybe not, I’m asking because I do think the legacy design is much better than running an engine at high rpms and reduce it to the prop like newer engines such as Rotax. Internal combustion is iffy enough without running it for hours at 4500 rpms.