History of WWI Primer 061: French and Italian Chamelot-Delvigne Documentary
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- čas přidán 8. 10. 2017
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
DU MODELE 1873 AU MODELE 1892
GAZETTE DES ARMES HS N°1
French Service Handguns 1858-2004
Medlin & Huon
Bodeo 1889 il revolver degli italiani
Ruggero Filippo Pettinelli
Italian Small Arms of the First and Second World Wars
Ralph Riccio
Les Revolvers Militaires Francais
Henri Vuillemin
Pistolen und Revolver der Schweiz
Christian Reinhart
You can now find these and other books through our A-store. When buying through this link we receive a small commission that goes on to help with production.
astore.amazon.com/candrprimer-20
Original music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
www.themoonandyou.com/
Safe range space thanks to Triana Protection
In collaboration with The Great War
/ thegreatwar
Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animation Music from Vector Smash
vectorsmash.com
Visit us at candrsenal.com
Also of note, Brendan Frazier used one of these in the first Mummy movie.
He used two of those actually!
Rick O'Connell makes reloading them look so easy.
Rick Being once part of the Foreign Legion in the 20th century. That makes good sense.
Since I was a child I've wondered what model of revolvers those were. You, my friend, has answered a 18 years old question. Be proud of yourself.
I want my mummy!
I want to see the therapist's report about Othais ranting on and on about the internals of the Colt Lightning and how easily it breaks.
I have this mental image of a audio series with the speaker going slowly insane. At the end I presume they’ll be saying “IA IA, WEATHER PATTERN PHFTAGIN”
“Patient suffers from a significant Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with Ideations and Fixations primarily focusing upon mechanical intricacies and weaknesses of internally functioning co-habitating smalls and springs. He seems to have a noble goal of improving upon perfection, however, this clinician fails to see how integrating violence with technological advancements of inter-related mechanics will serve to advance the betterment of international relations in a business formulation of profit by coexistence. Patient seems overly consumed with some men’s God complex, constantly repeating the grammatically incorrect phrase “War Were Declared” and seeming to prefer watching ladies of the female persuasion engaging in weapons handling and test firing activities. In some professional circles this type of activity could be viewed with grandiose reservations or wherever Indians with guns reside.
Well he has done it. Think he came out OK.
Back in the early 1990's we had French one come into the shop I worked at, from an estate of a veteran with capture papers from WW2. North Africa if I recall correctly. These evidently soldiered on for several decades after WW1.
What is fascinating about the Chamelot-Delvigne in France is that it service did not even end after WW2. The weapon was still very occasionally used in Indochina and Algeria, and it would only really be phased out in 1962 (Yes, 1962, 89 years after the production started). Some would even be around for a few more years for prison guard and other civilian but armed functions of the French state.
I was rewatching “The Mummy” and had to look up these revolvers. Happy to see C&Rsenal already touched on them.
"On second thought lets not go to Camelot. Tis a silly place". I know its not pronounced the same but it was the first thing that came to mind.
*Gets shot*
'Tis but a scratch!
"Lets call it a draw"
Samuel Iam, I'm actually quite sure there must have been some French officers who had exactly that sort of expression on their face when they were handed this (rather nice) antique. (a very distinct "yu 'ave' to bee shjiiting mee" sort of expression ;) )
More like sham-a-lot!
It's like another French rifle from around this time every time he says it I think he's saying ,Croke Patrick a religious place here in Ireland tho world famous I've been told but definitely not a rifle
"And they went with big and weak like the others sadly"
To my energy calculator, the 175gr at 820fps of the 10.4mm Italian Ordnance gives 261 foot-pounds / 354 joules of energy, that was surely not exceptional (but it's still more powerful than a 9mm Makarov, that's a modern service round), but it's neverthless slightly more than the 256 foot-pounds / 347 joules of energy of the .455 Webley MKII, that, if I recall correctly was "built on the idea that a single round of a handgun should stop a charging native" and was described here like it was the ultimate manstopper.
To make another comparison, the10.4mm Italian Ordnance, the .455 Webley, and the and the .38 Special are in the same energy range (and the latter two were both service rounds still in WWII), but the 10.4mm predates the other two by far (it predates the .38 Long Colt that the .38 Special replaced, that was far weaker and that had been deemed here as "a very decent cartridge").
The .455 webley's bullet is considerably heavier (by bullet standards) than the Italian bullet. That gives the webley better "stopping power". Imagine getting struck by a golf ball (that'll represent the Italian 10.4) now imagine getting struck by a baseball (that'll represent the .455 webley), and now imagine both going the same speed. You using just energy is incorrect to figure a cartridge's effective lethality, you need to factor in bullet mass too.
@@avian68tb it may not have as much “stopping power” as .455, but he’s right that it has more than .38 Long Colt. This is a .431 diameter bullet weighing 175 grains at 820 feet per second, that was a .357 diameter bullet weighing 148 grains going 775 feet per second. And while the .38 Special beats it out by about 35 feet per second, it’s about 25 grains lighter, so OP is right that they’re in similar ranges. Mae did beat up on the 10.4 a little unfairly I feel.
The guns in the background are always such a tease
andyrihn1 it's always fun to try to figure out what they've got hiding back there. One of the most fun things about these videos
Top: RSC 1917
Mid: US Krag Jorgensen
Bottom: Winchester 1905 (not sure of the caliber to include the /07/10 label.)
PickelJars ForHillary 1907 most likely, those are the only Winchesters of that series where 10 rd mags are semi common. Of course, I say common, but the 2 10 rounders I have are the only ones I've ever seen in person.
probably .351 getting ammo for that puppy willy probably have an Anvil tie-in
I bought a new revolver because of how much the channel has rekindled my interest in them. Thank you for all of the awesome stories and information👍
This is a great revolver to carry in pairs, bare minimum, for going to explore ancient Egyptian tombs.
now i gotta watch riechs revolver again. :)
Thank you Othais for making a point, about the technological and manufactural context of the firearm!
I have a 1874 (the officer version), it's very pleasant to shoot and surprisingly accurate.
I have the same gun. Incredibly robust, feels indestructible in your hand. I’m surprised how many are still on the market
you channel is just making my shopping list bigger and bigger
Thanks all. love what you people do.
Y’all rock….seriously. One of my very favorite channels.
As usual I chose not to sleep to watch another one of these. Super fabulous job. You guys rock : )
Dude, I cannot fuckin' wait to see you guys cover the Winchester 1907,
Phosphor bronze is still used in ships propellers, it is also a popular material for making Saxophones, Cymbals, guitar strings and other musical items.
Great video as always!! Othais you present the information
in a clear and understandable way, I think you would make a great history
teacher. But I also need to mention that watching Mae shoot with such
confidence is great, she also has a great bit of knowledge on the subject
herself. You might want to consider having her do some more screen time in the
videos. I look forward to your videos. Thank you for your endeavor.
Yeah I'm finally caught up and can now watch these as they come out without loosing my place.
3rd time through primer and still loving it.
I love watching these shows , they are both Entertaining & Educating , I'm a bit late in watching this episode but the subscriber's are now up to 89K ( My thinking is , that should have 0 behind it !) so its still creeping up , Well done All @ C&R Thank You keep up the Excellent work .
C&RSENAL TIME!! Sleep is for the uncommitted!
I prefer this way of referring to it
Up late, having trouble falling asleep, stomach a little queasy...
Just my body telling me there was a C&Rsenal video to watch.
BRB, making popcorn before watching. :)
I just love those guys humor they crack me up so hard
Loved it as always :)
I used to have an Italian gun magazine, reporting ballistic tests of several modern cartridges and the old 10,35 was tested as a comparison. The writer, who I think was Paolo Barlillà, said that the gel block was resting on a board, when it was shot, and the 10,35 cracked the board, while passing through the gel.
The 10.35 Italian Ordnance, energy-wise, is in the same ballpark of the .455 Webely, 38 Special and 9mm Makarov.
Thank you guys. This is a crufflers' dream. Need to be able to give a one time donation. Steyr Hahn , Nagants etc Yes!!
After WWII is done in 2018, I have a few of the rarer C&R military arms I can send you. Can't wait for you to make a book. I'll buy 10 copies of that
Still on WW1 in 2021.
Phosphorus bronze is still in use for smaller watercraft. Most often in wooden boats and restitution work. Makes nice rivets and roves. Nails are decent but can be brittle.
I see that Winchester hanging on the wall
Its french, the owner has a pony tail...hmmm.
Blessed be his name.
Can only be one man... Hallowed be his name!
Looking good Mae
5 years late but yes bronze propellers are still popular on large ships, they are usually tag teamed with sacrificial anodes to maximize corrosion resistance
I tell everyone i know and work with to check out your show.!
Let's just appreciate the fact that this fine six shooter also just happens to be the same age as the Colt Single Action Army.
Very Nice video Othais, thanks!
I have a couple of questions though:
-The 1873 being supposed to be "in the white", do you know what led yours to be blued?
-How was the shininess of weapons "in the white" maintained by troops? Would metal "patinating" itself in use be an accepted fact of life? Knowing how much militaries like shine, it seems unlikely, but what were the methods used?
Actually, it could be nice (although probably tedious) to make a video covering how were weapons historically maintained through the 19th and 20th century (from "in the white" black powder guns to modern-ish times) and compare if different military had different protocoles.
Mae is like: "I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning".
First saw this revolver in "The Mummy" where Bredan Fraser often uses a pair!
Hey, you should do episodes on the swiss k11, k31 or even the Parabellum (swiss Luger). After all Switzerland had 200.000+ soldiers mobilized during WW1... even if they didn't fight. Their weapons have a place on this channel, and their rifles have a good reputation.
25:04 THAT is why I watch this channel. And yeah, the history is cool.
The Italian does look good. I’m betting it’d be an awesome once a month target revolver.
So everyone in the comments has pointed out Brendan Fraser uses this gun in The Mummy because Rick O’Connel was in the French foreign legion, thank god we’re all mummy fans here. Great movie, idc what the tomato says it deserves 5 stars.
So I’ll just point out it was also in Shanghai Noon, the main villain pulls out one and Owen Wilson’s character pulls out the same revolver alongside a Schofield after his pair of pearl handled nickel SAA’s were stolen.
I look forward to these...YAY!!! :D Also I can't picture Mae without a cowboy hat anymore lolXD
I appreciate you I own a 1874 and I'm thrilled to get a little history I wondered what the N before the serial number I guess I have a Navy peace. PS with modern synthetic black powder I'm getting 800 fps on a 240gr thanks again for your time
Hello Othias and Mae i was wondering if you guys had ever thought of offering the fans of your show some sort of package deal of meet and great with a choice of handling/firing some of the guns i see in the backround of your studio. Thank you and a special thanks to mae i enjoy watching you demonstrate the various guns in your programs.
Sadly it is a rotation of loaners and ammo production would make it difficult. We would like to try for another get together in the future
Finally!
Just as an anecdotal detail, I met an older gentleman who served as a sergeant in the French Colonial Infantry in WWII and in 1939 was issued a "73" with 6 8mm cartridges. I also talked to other veterans who testified that the "73" was also used in Indochina. I own both a "73" and a "92". My question really was will a "73" fired bullet take down your opponent, or do you HAVE TO HAVE that 45 Long Colt . They were not hunting buffaloes at Verdun or the Somme. Thank, excellent video.
Right before my bedtime. Perfect!
I Would be Very interested in seeing a Video featuring the winchester 1907.
Watching this in 2022. Yes Phosphor Bronze is still a popular in the marine industry, though it's moved on to stronger materials for the likes of propellers.
I think it is nice when 3 countries can been "Gun-Buddies" :) Sounds so friendly
Like Bezzie Matez with gunz
Sort of response to the update at the end: Roughly how many guns are there in total that you'd want to cover? Can you give an exact amount?
There are a finite amount of guns that fit your remit, but finite doesn't mean small...
Keep up the good work, we love it!
over 100 total episodes are likely if we stay on track
And then Mae will insist on doing the gats of the wild west :P
+EDSKaR
and than Mae would like to do PIRATE guns. I am surprised she hasn't forced Othias in such ventures already.
Pirate cowyboy guns!
Please, do some shooting with this winchester model 1907 behind you :c is it true that there were full auto versions in ww1? if yes, is there any in good condition ready for some shooting? ;c
Are those new glasses Othias?
Ships propellers are more likely to be alu-bronze these days. But essentially potato-tomato or whatever.
@ Othias, to be nice to Ian (and us), could you make a playlist detailing all your French weapons you've covered?
Go to the PLAYLIST of this channel. There's a playlist of (the weapons of) every country that fought in WW1.
By the way I have gotten some interesting comments about my tee shirts and I think they may have got you one more viewer.
Nice.
Do you change the guns on the back wall for each episode? I’m beginning to notice that they change frequently. Any rhyme or reason for the rotation?
themajor he apparently has some relevance to his shirt color, but it might just be mouth watering teasers, or what they're currently doing some kind of work on
Please do a video on that Remington model 8 or that Winchester 1907 (or 1910) selfloadee behind you
Its a winchester
INSPECTEUR JOHNSON yes it's a Winchester selfloader
Any words about the Dutch version of this revolver? I literally cannot find any information on it
Make you wonder how colt had such a great loading gate and ejector rod, and everybody else said, "nah. We'll just scab some stuff on here"
Are you guys ever going to get your hands on a RSC 1917 or 1918?
WHAT!!??!! Mae finally said no to a gun!!!?? I’m astonished.
Chamelot Delvigne...When Othias and Mae's animation finally shows the ACTUAL speed of the projectile moving down the barrel.
were you guys getting punctured primers on the italian version?
A faster shell ejection...tilt revolver up. Gravity assist....☺ Camera view I get it.
So how much do you know about chamelot and delvigne? I have one I want to know more about!
I believe the viewership may increase when some more "well known" firearms are covered; "...err m1911 cough, cough"! I'm eagerly awaiting the Mosin-Nagant M91 or Sprinfield Model of 1903 episodes.
I always wondered why the French didn't go with a large caliber smokeless revolver round like most other countries that used them.
But they all had their colonies with the occasional uprising. Usually that's what prompted the development of revolvers and handguns.
Well the Reichsrevolver has a good cartridge. It'd be fine if it at least had a spring loaded ejector rod like a Colt Single Action Army......or an ejector rod at all.
America and Britian were shooting savaes, many of the other countries only planned on shooting each other.
It's been a long time!
I will be interested to see if the atrocious period music playing while Mae shoots disappears later in the series. Other than that this show is a hoot as well as being educational which is much appreciated here. European machinations are better than any other.
anyone know if the firing pin can sit between the chamber's and use the cartridge rims to stop rotation?
VERY late answer but no it cannot. Everytime the hammer comes down, the cylinder is indexed in front of a cartridge.
At least you could create your own personal smoke screen with these guns ^^
Gotta love not even having a hard hitter to make up for the slow
Another great episode guys.
Why don't you split screen the shooting segment so you can see what holes hit where on the paper when she is shooting? Not just a static image of the final group. Kindlike how iraqveteran8888 does on his long range shooting segments. Just make it your own twist, but that concept.
A Mk3 Schofield looks like a laser pistol compared to the loading gate revolvers.
Is there a C&Rsenal merch store?
candrsenal.com/shop/
I have a model 1873, it stamped "S.1906" on the right hand side of the barrel. was my gun manufactured in 1906 or refurbished in 1906 since you mentioned the last production year of M1873 was in 1885? The serial number is G171xx.
"So I will pull out the rod, which is very stiff, s o I will push forward and grunt" LMAO
Have you guys ever thought about doing a show on reloading in which you show us the process of making these cartridges for your series? I don't want to add any more burden onto you; I am just simply suggesting an idea.
Thank You ! All at C&R for another exceptional episode , I am addicted & wish that any My School teachers had been even 10% as interesting as Othias & Mae .
Just a suggestion , with regard to the quandary over the power of specific cartridges ,perhaps You could add a ft/lb column next to the velocity & weight figures for the cartridges, calculated from the figure's given . Sorry if I'm creating more work but it would enable viewers to compare performance (all be it purely numerically) on a like for like basis and encourage the "Power Fiends " to educational viewing as opposed to simple destruction alone ,(Hey its All Good Fun , & different strokes for different folks etc.) Viva La C&Rsenal .
IE, to my energy calculator, the 175gr at 820fps of the "weak" 10.4mm Italian Ordnance gives 261 foot-pounds / 354 joules of energy, that was surely not exceptional (but it's still more powerful than a 9mm Makarov, that's a modern service round), but it's neverthless slightly more than the 256 foot-pounds / 347 joules of energy of the .455 Webley MKII, that had been treated here like it was the ultimate manstopper.
Thanks for that , I would have got around to doing the calculations ... Eventually! . I am sure that many other viewers will find Your efforts interesting for a comparative view . Thanks again .
You are welcome. To go on, both the 10.4mm Italian and the .455 Webley are in the same power range of the .38 Special (253 foot-pounds / 343 joules) and are significantly more powerful than the .44 S&W American (212 foot-pounds / 287 joules) that, in 1873, was the US service Cartridge, and the cartridge that Wyatt Earp used in the OK Corral gunfight.
Love it ! Perhaps You should offer Your services to C&R , I'm sure Many others would value this info as I do . Excellent work . Thank You . It saved Me the task of writing the figures for velocity & Mass and then taking them home to cook the numbers and consult the Shooters Bible for comparisons Ps. I am at work on a break at the moment in the UK and don't have a PC at home so if My reply's are intermittent I am in between shifts , so no more questions or reply's from Me after tonight's shift till day shift on Friday .
@@neutronalchemist3241 Your math is bad and you should feel bad.
Webley mk2 was 40ft/s faster and almost 2/3 more weight. Increases in either number equal more power, so...
I'll do the proper math shortly
What can you say about Delvigne-Thouvenin ?
I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't get some information about the use of the gun in the Hamanuptra detachment of the French Foreign Legion.
Its fun to call it the Camelot Devine and see peoples reaction
Excited for 1911.......
The mummy brought me here.
Mosin 1907 Carbine, top left!
I'm not surprised that Chamelot-Delvigne was kept in service for so long. Handguns were never the top priority for any military and this applies to even modern day military.
I love Mae she’s real asf. Also Othais is a G and a half.
The French learned the wrong lesson from the Franco Prussian war. They didn't need new weapons, just more elan.
Same goes for the Great Wars, they didn't need new fancy artillery tactics, or clip fed rifles, or tanks, just more elan.
Actually what they needed was more Frenchmen to use up all the German ammunition and leave them helpless.
tombogan03884 that’s Russia’s secret weapon.
And red bullet proof trousers
Whats that gun behind may?
that rifle with the magazine
Winchester 1907
Why do you keep banging on the slow loading/reloading? It's similar to the Colt, yes?
Individual rounds fed through a loading gate is less than ideal in a combat handgun. There's a reason the Colt SAA didn't catch up to the S&W #3 until 30 years after it started production and the #3 had been out of production for close to seven years! 😄
Is that a pocket knife you got there May? A patreon special on it! Plz
Grandpa? was that a swipe at hickok45?
What knife is Mae carrying?
Othais,
C&Rsenal is the first reference listed on the English Wikipedia for the MAS 1873 revolver, aka, Chamelet-Delvinge. Were you responsible for this?
Sharpen the edge of that shovel and you have a pretty wicked makeshift battleaxe... and there are reports from the eastern front of Russian troops doing just that...