I love how a lot of other channels just say 120 AIO's are garbage and to throw them out but they are comparing them to full tower coolers in big cases in an ITX environment, this is actually super useful and interesting thank you !
99% of people build ATX so sure, most people shouldnt get a 120mm AIO. Look at prebuilds ATX, many come with 120 AIO, just so they can say its watercooled which is awesome for marketing. 12700k-12900k with a 120 AIO is crazy ^^
Congrats on the new addition 👏 Maybe a 120mm aio comparison? Cosidering how the h60 did against those popular options and not been that good amongst other 120mm aio it would be interesting to see.
So here's the thing. If you look at the 120mm AIO market, it's shrunk big time. NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master, Phanteks and a bunch of others haven't launched 120mm options alongside their new series. But yeah, a roundup might be in the works.
@@HardwareCanucks Alphacool , EK, and Be Quiet make 120's. I do think that price wise AIO's are a different animal. I love the L9i its simply such a good cooler.
yes, i d like to see if there are really major differences. And maybe compared to a really slim 140mm aio (if there is such). And since it's for ITX, maybe try slim 15mm fans (noctua, arctic).
Congrats on the new addition and thanks for another interesting and informative video. I've really enjoyed all of your cooling stuff, because while I'm not in the target audience to use it there always seems to be something useful to take away. Personally I use water cooling in my primary gaming machine, but nothing else. I really like having no obstructions around the GPU and being able to keep the CPU heat away from it as well. When I did my first AIO build it was using the same GPU as my prior build, but the temps on it were significantly better despite the case having worse airflow and I haven't looked back.
@@HardwareCanucks dude that's so awesome. I can't believe you're 40 you look younger than me and I'm 36! It's crazy how unprepared you feel when the kid arrives but everything just works out.
When you started presenting I was like 'whos Mike?" Now I'm like, "where's Mike?". Welcome back and congratulations! I would take the air over the water any day. There's just a peace of mind in the simplicity of an air cooler.
I’ve personally been building ITX builds in cases such as N-Case M1, Skyreach mini S4, Cooler Master NR200 (original version) and recently the Phanteks Evolv Shift XT …. I use a Cooling Loop or AIO all most setups except the Skyreach Mini S4 which I use an Alpenpfon Black Ridge which with stock fan (not 140mm due to ram clearance issues) with a Ryzen 5800X3D and temps are perfectly fine, even under full loads and long 1080P gaming sessions 🥰😇👍. I’ve been building ITX builds now since 4th Gen Intel CPUs and never looked back to air cooling unless I’m case restricted 😉. Great video Mike. Glad to see you back 🥰👍
Damn! What a timing, I was looking for a comparison between Low profile Air Cooling an AIO. Great video I'm going to AIO because I live in a Warm County.
Would've loved to see a 120 mm fan on the Noctua. Noctua L12g has more thermal mass then black ridge. Also would've liked to see a 140mm AIO. Great video tho!
Thermalright AXP120-67 please!! Also with a 25mm Noctua A12 fan too lol. Also want to add that case space/motherboard compatibility factors into these ITX builds too.
@@bat0u I got the msi unify well I'm sure it will handle the i5 fine its just how much it can handle the i7, I'm sure I will need to undervolt sadly they didn't have the 12700k in stock and I didn't want the 12700kf so gonna wait for a few more days for it to arrive
I use a Black Ridge with a 120mm fan UNDER it, using VLP RAM to make it fit. This way you get L12S equivalent performance at just 47mm height. This works out perfectly with the FormD T1 case which has 50mm CPU cooler height restriction in 3 Slot GPU config. One thing to note on watercooling vs air cooling, is that you will in most cases get better GPU temps since you can populate the same radiator area with fans, that don't have to push/full air through a dense radiator.
I would never get an AIO over an air cooler. I like that air coolers have fewer points of failure and have a lot more longevity, as long as you have mounts for the new CPU sockets.
Even the Alpenfohn cooler thermal throttles my 5600X in a silverston SG13. I bought a $25 alienware pull out 120mm AIO and it keeps the 5600X under 70C in the same case, all else equal. AIOs certainly have their place. I also wouldnt use a large air cooler in a computer I planned on moving around frequently or shipping, AIOs keep all the weight mounted to the chassis and not hanging off the motherboard.
@@DJ.1001 I know they have their place, but I don't like them, it's a personal opinion. If I would make a PC that I would take with me, certainly tower coolers are too big of a risk of bending the motherboard or something like that. It's safer with downdraft coolers (if they CPU is low powered enough or undervolted and underclocked a bit) or an AIO. But I'm not sure if Chinese AIOs from AliExpress are particularly safe in long term. Hope you don't have problems with it, like some reviewers had in videos.
I was always in the air cooling camp, but as cpu and gpu generations pump more heat, due to the ever increasing power draw, I'm starting to shift towards AIO to keep up with a quiet SFF build. The tech has matured and a lot of the earlier faults have been fixed. ITX cases are better designed now, so it's not unusual to see 240mm AIOs fit with a 300mm gpu (or longer). Thanks for the comparison tests. It's so useful.
Congratulations on your newest addition! May she grow to be happy and healthy! As far as coolers go, I’m still paranoid about AIOs in small environments. Air coolers need so much less maintenance and sometimes can be quieter because the pumps/moving water can actually be notably louder than a tiny amount of air moving over the cooler. But sometimes, the AIO just makes more sense for compatibility.
I'm def in the Air Cooling crowd... I just installed a top-down Noctua NH-C14S air cooler on my i7-10700k inside a Hyte Revolt 3 case. It fit wonderfully and works great!! Less cables, no hoses... this setup was the easiest of the 5 builds I've done in an ITX. in this setup I attached a 120mm pressure-optimized fan on the bottom of the cooler, and 2 140mm fans on the "swinging door" above the cooler (the lower of the 2 140mm fans is above the cooler). In an attempt to improve the exhausting of warm GPU air, the fans actually blow down-top; they blow air out of the case. At some point I will make them top-down 7 see how it impacts CPU & GPU temps. No need to do it now though because all is cool.
the advantage of AiO watercooling is clear. However, since I had my AiO's pump dying for only less than 5 years, I used air cooling till now. The convenience and reliability of air cooling is just better for me in the long run.
Same here, the pump of my H80i died in less than 4y of use, and it was also mounted the "right" way (so that air does not reach the pump). While my noctua nh-d15 on my second build is still going strong since 2014, just had to replace a fan (3moths ago) after about 25'000h of use
I been using aio for 3 years now and decided to go for a id-cooling is-67-xt since I down sized my case. A couple of case fans and a server 120mm fan for the cooler along with liquid metal I was able to drop my temp almost the same to my aio, my aio average 59-63c on full load while the air cooler averaged 60-70 on full load.
I’ve always been an air cool person. It has always been fun to create good airflow in a case and growing up with an og Xbox 360 has trained me well. You can’t beat the simplicity of fans.
I'd love to see the Sycthe Big Shuriken 3 instead of the 2. I do also want to note I have 5900x at 145w on a BS3 with a Noctua A12x25 swap and hit 77-78 degrees on a 10 minute Cinebench R23 run. Seems to be a beast of a cooler.
@@iTouch4444 curve optimizer at negative 24 all cores. Best multi run at 145w is a little over 21500. Cores start at 4.3/4.275Ghz and settle at about 4.25Ghz. Should also add My memory is at 3800 Cl18 with IF at 1900Mhz for 1:1
The longevity of AIOs are usually not worth it because once it begins to fail, your temps will spike through the roof and needs to be replaced immediately whereas with air cooling, you normally just have to worry about the fan which will show audible signs of the bearing wearing out, and doesn't need to be replaced right away.
Thermalright AXP120-X67 is an excellent easy to install air cooler & comes with fan clips for 25mm thick fans @ 77mm height It performs at the cooling level of the Blackridge. If you have the height (91mm) Noctua will supply free upper 25mm fan clips for the L12 Ghost Edition - it runs about 5 degrees C cooler than the Blackridge or AXP120-X67 when both have 25mm thick fans mounted.
I ended up getting the noctua cooler thanks to one of your previous videos, and it went into my torrent case... I can't get the cpu to exceed 44C even with an artificial load. I had a coolermaster tower on there before and it was maxing in the 70C range... A 30 degree drop from a cooler alone is kinda staggering.
So... I don't have an SFF build, but I do have experience with a water cooler. I've been running a 280mm from Corsair since 2017. No issues, no odd noises, seems like it's going to keep running for a while longer. Yes, there are more points of failure in water cooling (just as a mathematical reality), but I don't think the difference is nearly so great in practice as it might seem from a spec sheet.
Would love to see how the Corsair H60 AIO compares to low height single tower coolers such as the Assassin King 120 Mini (135mm) or the Assassin King 90 (125mm).
I'm personally for water cooling because I'm confident that I can do the maintenance. But when I build a PC for someone else, I take into account of whether or not they're going to do the repairs themself. Lower experience = air cooled
I used a 240mm Corsair pro capellix on a 5900X CPU, in a phanteks shift air XT, and it's awesome. Ran cinebench for 10min and it never got to 80 deg Celsius
I just recently did this test with a few low profile coolers vs an H60 on a 12700k, but set it to an unreachable power draw so it would thermal throttle. The low profile coolers were able to handle anywhere from 80-120w depending on fan speed (silent to max), but the H60 handled the 150w load at 90c, so it didn't throttle at a reasonable fan speed. The are very worth it for people who expect to cool more than 65w chips in small spaces.
Congrats on the youngling. Regarding the review, I tend to go with Air cooling. While and AIO can cool better, in some ITX cases getting everything mounted in the case properly is a pain in the ass. Just less hassle with an air cooler. What I often do though is swap the slim fan for a standard one if the case has clearance. Gets a bit better performance and usually better acoustics.
One of the things that Optimum Tech has brought up is that the most recent ITX boards have so much crap on them and so little clearance that sometimes you can't fit things like the Black Ridge on there. For this reason, I think AIOs are actually easier to install, so I have to disagree with that assertion. I often hear about the reliability thing but I have been running an H100i for like 7 years and the only time I have a problem is when Corsair resets all my custom fan curves when the software updates. The hardware is working fine.
Man that Black Ridge is really something else lmao, so glad I have one on hand! Good video though I had actually wondered this very thing. Would've been curious to see the thicker Arctic 120mm AIO with maybe one of the 30mm fans on it.
1:55 Thanks for taking India's consensus in consideration. Here taxes are already added in displayed price (as some countries have taxes on billing the product) & as compared to USD prices are always 30%-60% higher. Also, many companies having registered with US & UK origins are considered as luxury brands because comparatively an average citizen's amenities are lower than developed nations.
I got that ID cooling 50X, and absolutely hated the installation on it. Once I managed to install it with what I considered even mounting pressure (due to lack of backplate usage), I couldn't deal with the doubt of whether I overtightened it or not. Results weren't particularly impressive either, whcih still led me to believe it was not installed evenly. At that point, I decided to throw it away, and ordered a Thermalright AXP120-X67 that has been causing quite a stir, uses backplate and spring loaded screws. Straightforward installation. I'd love to see that one included in your round-ups. haven;t gotten mine, but have high expectations as a long-time Thermalright fan.
right now I'm running an AIO H110 or 110i from Corsair don't remember right now, for more than six years, just hoping that I'll be near it when it fails, But on my next build I will go with an badass Air-cooler, MA620M, probably should be fine for a 5800x running in Stock
Many years have passed since I move to liquid cooling, and I still see little reason for AiOs. They are cheaper than custom loops, but in ITX world, cheap is not really an advantage for many (if not most) ppl. Custom loops just do way better. 5800X + RTX 3080 in sub 15L case at much warmer that 22C room - can be done. For most ppl, to put loop with 280 rad in something like NR200 is not that complicated. That cost is high, but most of the time the only thing that have to be upgraded is the GPU block. There are parts in my loop that are about 10 years old. And even older functional parts in reserve.
You kinda forgot the biggest reason why aio is preferred: you don’t have to deal with custom watercooling. Custom watercooling is just not for everyone and can be disastrous if done wrong and a leak occur.
@@sentryion3106 Simple soft tubing loop is not complicated at all. Anyone that is able to put together a functioning computer in ITX case should be able to do it. Leaks are overrated. nothing happens if distilled water leaks into the running system. It is much easier do permanently damage AiO - like bending teflon coated tubes a bit too much. Also, AiOs have very limited lifespan. Custom loop have significant performance advantage. Especially in SFF. You should try, and will be surprised. It is easy to do, with great performance, and even more cost effective in a long run. Not to mention fun and satisfaction :)
For me Air cooling left better idle temps and mild usage temps as well. Where the AIO wins out for me is when I beat the systems up doing some video work or compiling new code. Both which are long running tasks and stress out the system well. X299 is a little touchy and only one evga board matx.
The problem is that most ITX cases are not designed with a 120 AIO in mind, you have plenty of options which focus on support for low profile air coolers, but then the next step up is to a 240 aio.
my prebuild came with an air cooler. upgraded it to and all in one and never looked back :) Now using a corsair rgb pro 360 in my first pc build. Very quiet aio in my opinion :) and works great
Would you say that Air coolers for SFF builds are better because it actually allows for additional airflow for the components around the CPU? i.e. cooler VRMs/ MOSFETs
Im in the same boat as you, air cooling every time unless a case I need to work on can only work with an AIO. I chose my phanteks shift because of the desk space saved so this is the only PC I will probably own that will have liquid cooling, using the be quiet pureloop 120mm to cool my 5600x and its doing a great job so far but I do want to add another fan to help it some more.
How long did the stress tests take?...I'm asking precisely because of the thermal mass, because once the water system is heated, it becomes clear how much thermal energy the fan can release to the air in the room. A distorted picture is often hidden here, if it is only tested for about five to ten minutes... at least an hour at 100% load shows at what temperature the water settles in water cooling. Congratulations to the new father...the most beautiful thing you can do in life is to give life😃👍
My ITX PC has a 280mm EK AIO. There's nothing wrong with air cooling, but I prefer some sort of water cooling in my builds for their thermal capacity. The only time I go for air cooling are for workstations that I don't want to maintain as often.
Another benefit to water cooling is thermal redirection. For example if you have your ITX case in a TV stand, pulling cool air from above is probably less effective than exhausting heat to the rear via a radiator
The water cooling crowd managed to convert me to air cooling. I have had 6 Corsair AIOs over the span of 2 years (in 3 different models) 2 of them failed in 2 years and 3 of them failed in the span of 2 weeks 😂. No clue what happened but the things just start flashing red and you can’t get them to stop. Tried everything and basically rebuilt my computer trying to figure out what it was but to no avail. The only thing it could have been would be the PSU, but it works just fine now, what can I say. I have a 360 Icue link aio right now working just fine but never switching back to AIOs until I absolutely need to.
LC has no unicorn tears in it or smth. One can have bigger radiator and ability to cool it with cooler air. When one has similar radiator surfaces so only advantage is to cool it with cooler air from outside of the case.
Had a few water coolers and as someone that travels and loves a quiet system they are just not for me. I've never had a pump that is as silent as a good fan at 200-300rpm. And I've tried almost all of them thanks to my former workplace. Though I have to say that I am very sensitive to noise. For perspective, I don't use be quiet fans, since they have a very very slight clicking noise. Also, traveling with a water cooler, especially by plane is just an hassle.
I like this video, although many of the coolers listed are very hard to find in Canada. I have a lian li q58 and really the only option is the l9i. I have a 6600k
Air colling for me is better, because of the long term reliability. If you push any component in the territory over the capacity of air cooling into water, you are way past any effisency points and for me the per/$ or per/W is way more important than the absolut maximum 5% that is unnoticable in day-to-day anyway
I don’t think it’d change the relative performance results significantly, but perhaps testing a game like doom for the purposes of assessing CPU temps under a gaming load is less than ideal. My understanding is that it is super well optimized such that the load is most likely going to be on the GPU under pretty much any reasonable config.
Are you sure you that the higher thermal mass of the watercooler is why it has better performance? I would think it more has to do with the pumped water more effectively carrying the heat from the cpu to the heatsink compared to a regular heatpipe. This would result in a smaller temperature difference between the cpu and heatsink which also means higher temperature difference between the heatsink and ambient air which would mean better performance at the same fan RPM. It is basically the same principle for why liquid metal performs better than regular thermal paste: Decreasing the temp delta between cpu and heatsink.
Haven’t seen an info on a new cooler that came out under the company “densium” the cooler name being Z39, supposed to be a sff-use cooler and I was curious how it’d stack up!
Arctic LF2 120 would probably drop that H60 by 5 more degrees noise normalized, but the issue is that it is CHONKY and will be very specific for some certain low profile scenarios
My only issue with small cases and water cooling is the pipes… ML08 so even if i wanted to rip a hole in my case and mount one the pipes would snap off or be a pain to screw around with I want to see AIO’s with into the bottom pipes not into the side pipes
I think water cooling vs low-profile air cooling is really case specific most of the time. I've never used a low profile air cooler unless the case I was using required it, and most of those cases couldn't accommodate water cooling. I suppose sandwich style cases that can accommodate a 240mm AIO would require a low profile cooler if doing air instead, but a 240mm AIO would always be dominant in those cases (pun intended). The only exception I can think of is the SG13. I was using a Noctua L12S because it was the largest cooler that would fit AND could exhaust up into the SFX PSU, but I switched to a 140mm AIO attached at the front (once I got a shorter GPU so a 140mm AIO would even fit) and that obviously performed substantially better.
I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. Right now, in one of my older builds, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I bought it back in 2017. If there's any performance degradation in 5 years, then it can't be much.
I'm using a Black Ridge in pull config with a noctua fan in a Dan A4 for a 3700x and I'm pretty happy with the performance and especially the low noise levels. In the A4 you can only fit a 92mm aio or 120mm with a short GPU, so I think this was the best option. Actually there would be not a lot of airflow on the motherboard with an aio so it might've affected vrm temps (although probably not with the 65w tdp of a 3700x).
I'm using IS 50X v2 with stock fan and I must admit I don't push it to the limits but it is so great I am confident it would handle well under heavy loads as well.
I'm surprised you didn't throw a Scythe Shuriken 3 in here. I thought it was fairly popular with the low profile crowd. Actually just ordered one because for the 2nd time in 6 years my H60 went out on me. So on average it seems to last about 3 years. Not very reliable. Opened up to find out there was a ton of sediment in the innards and that's probably what prematurely killed the pump. Otherwise an AIO is KILLER for low cooling temps.
Unless you're ultra small ITX builds, especially when so many sandwich (and even some of the bigger standard) layout ITX cases can manage a 240/280 AIO with room to spare
I think the Noctua NH-L12S is missing in this comparison - it is usually a bit better than Blackridge. Regarding what is best - it reaaallly depends on the case. For example, the popular budget Silverstone SG13 usually performs better with the AIO, because the aircooler is blocked by PSU.
I have a Ryzen 5600x in a Phanteks shift XT, started off with a Noctua 65mm cooler it did okay but the CPU almost never boosted to 4.6GZ normally 4.2/3 at best. Swapped to a 240 AIO hit 4.6gz straight away which it would never do previously. Strangely with the air cooler temps never went over 70C, however with the AIO its 55C max. So you would think it would still boost to the max on the air cooler but just would never do it until i installed the AIO.
Exactly this kind of behaviour is the reason people are arguing about aircooling a ryzen 9. Temperaturewise it absolutely works. Only the clocks stay a bit behind their potential.
I think the motherboard is of fault, not the air cooler. In theory, until a CPU gets to its Tjmax (95°C for 5600X), it should boost at its maximum clock. 70 degree isn't even that high. Many people run Intel Alder Lake on a stock cooler at 90°C, and it still boosts like normal. It's best to check the motherboard settings when weird things like that happen, water cooling is not magic, it's just cooling with water. Some motherboards give more TDP to CPU if you connect a water cooling system for some reason, even if the air cooler could have cooled the higher TDP.
@@luckyowl10 luckily i have access to two different boards an Aorus pro X570 itx and an B ASrosk B450 also itx, it performed just the same on both boards and improved with the water cooling. Like you i was stumped as my assumption was it should boost fully on the air cooler. I also have a Ryzen 3600XT chip which is a 95 watt TDP, and it did the same thing boosted fully water cooled but not with the air cooler, although in the case the temps were a bit higher 80 on the air cooler and 60 with water cooling.. It's weird though stumped me. I would have preferred to Air cool if I am honest.
Let it be known from somebody that had theyre aio blow out on them, if you dont want to ever worry about your pc getting drenched, go with aircooling. Performance < Reliability all the way but nonetheless great video!
Excellent video! To be honest I was impressed that some of the air coolers were close to matching the AIO in temps and in fairness kept the CPU well under thermal throttling range. I eventually want to do an ITX build and I think if I was to do one I think I'd go for air cooling, simply because I want the smallest chassis possible if I'm gonna do ITX at all.
I was going to use an 120 on my new 12400F build but everyone said 120s were terrible (to at least go with a 240 if I just had to have an AIO). Ended up going with an ID IS-47-XT instead.
These low profile aircoolers are also more likely to offer VRM and RAM cooling where AIOs really only offer cooling to these parts if the case airflow allows
Talks about addressing the elephant in the room, completely ignores the elephant on his shirt.
That was the point. :P
@@HardwareCanucks engagement for the win
That’s the joke bruh…
I love how a lot of other channels just say 120 AIO's are garbage and to throw them out
but they are comparing them to full tower coolers in big cases
in an ITX environment, this is actually super useful and interesting
thank you !
Every type of cooler type has its use cases.
@@HardwareCanucks agreed!
thank you again for this.
great discussion!
congrats on the new member btw :)
Yeah i see that alot and while not the go to option they do have their uses.
The problem is a lot of pre-builts throw in 120mm AiOs in ATX towers, just so they can say it's "water cooled".
99% of people build ATX so sure, most people shouldnt get a 120mm AIO. Look at prebuilds ATX, many come with 120 AIO, just so they can say its watercooled which is awesome for marketing. 12700k-12900k with a 120 AIO is crazy ^^
Congrats on the new addition 👏
Maybe a 120mm aio comparison? Cosidering how the h60 did against those popular options and not been that good amongst other 120mm aio it would be interesting to see.
So here's the thing. If you look at the 120mm AIO market, it's shrunk big time. NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master, Phanteks and a bunch of others haven't launched 120mm options alongside their new series. But yeah, a roundup might be in the works.
@@HardwareCanucks hopefully an artic 120mm aio is included with stock and argb fan. Its a bit chunky but should perform really well.
@@HardwareCanucks Alphacool , EK, and Be Quiet make 120's. I do think that price wise AIO's are a different animal. I love the L9i its simply such a good cooler.
@@HardwareCanucks id cooling also have their own 120mm aio hope you can review it also since it much more cheaper than corsair
yes, i d like to see if there are really major differences. And maybe compared to a really slim 140mm aio (if there is such). And since it's for ITX, maybe try slim 15mm fans (noctua, arctic).
Congrats on the new addition and thanks for another interesting and informative video. I've really enjoyed all of your cooling stuff, because while I'm not in the target audience to use it there always seems to be something useful to take away.
Personally I use water cooling in my primary gaming machine, but nothing else. I really like having no obstructions around the GPU and being able to keep the CPU heat away from it as well. When I did my first AIO build it was using the same GPU as my prior build, but the temps on it were significantly better despite the case having worse airflow and I haven't looked back.
I will always stick with air cooling because of reliablílity, also I kinda like the looks of huge heatsinks on a CPU.
CONGRATS ON YOUR NEW BABY!!!! Idk if its your first kid or not but man what a life changer. My kid is 1.5 years old and life got infinitely better.
She's the first...and here I am just turning 40. It's a life changer all right!
@@HardwareCanucks dude that's so awesome. I can't believe you're 40 you look younger than me and I'm 36! It's crazy how unprepared you feel when the kid arrives but everything just works out.
When you started presenting I was like 'whos Mike?" Now I'm like, "where's Mike?". Welcome back and congratulations! I would take the air over the water any day. There's just a peace of mind in the simplicity of an air cooler.
Thanks man! Really appreciated!
I've had an H60 for 3 years. Totally fine AIO. I delidded my 7700k which gives the H60 a bit of a break and allows decent overclocking.
I’ve personally been building ITX builds in cases such as N-Case M1, Skyreach mini S4, Cooler Master NR200 (original version) and recently the Phanteks Evolv Shift XT …. I use a Cooling Loop or AIO all most setups except the Skyreach Mini S4 which I use an Alpenpfon Black Ridge which with stock fan (not 140mm due to ram clearance issues) with a Ryzen 5800X3D and temps are perfectly fine, even under full loads and long 1080P gaming sessions 🥰😇👍. I’ve been building ITX builds now since 4th Gen Intel CPUs and never looked back to air cooling unless I’m case restricted 😉. Great video Mike. Glad to see you back 🥰👍
Damn! What a timing, I was looking for a comparison between Low profile Air Cooling an AIO.
Great video I'm going to AIO because I live in a Warm County.
Would've loved to see a 120 mm fan on the Noctua. Noctua L12g has more thermal mass then black ridge. Also would've liked to see a 140mm AIO. Great video tho!
Thermalright AXP120-67 please!! Also with a 25mm Noctua A12 fan too lol. Also want to add that case space/motherboard compatibility factors into these ITX builds too.
I got it with the 12700k just waiting for the cpu to arrive!
@@iamnoob-ep3tz nice! what mobo actually? lemme know bout temps, not sure if I want 12700k or step down to i5 for better temps lol. thx =)
@@bat0u I got the msi unify
well I'm sure it will handle the i5 fine its just how much it can handle the i7, I'm sure I will need to undervolt
sadly they didn't have the 12700k in stock and I didn't want the 12700kf so gonna wait for a few more days for it to arrive
I use a Black Ridge with a 120mm fan UNDER it, using VLP RAM to make it fit. This way you get L12S equivalent performance at just 47mm height. This works out perfectly with the FormD T1 case which has 50mm CPU cooler height restriction in 3 Slot GPU config. One thing to note on watercooling vs air cooling, is that you will in most cases get better GPU temps since you can populate the same radiator area with fans, that don't have to push/full air through a dense radiator.
The issue is LP memory for a lot of folks but yeah, makes sense
I would never get an AIO over an air cooler. I like that air coolers have fewer points of failure and have a lot more longevity, as long as you have mounts for the new CPU sockets.
Even the Alpenfohn cooler thermal throttles my 5600X in a silverston SG13. I bought a $25 alienware pull out 120mm AIO and it keeps the 5600X under 70C in the same case, all else equal. AIOs certainly have their place.
I also wouldnt use a large air cooler in a computer I planned on moving around frequently or shipping, AIOs keep all the weight mounted to the chassis and not hanging off the motherboard.
@@DJ.1001 I know they have their place, but I don't like them, it's a personal opinion.
If I would make a PC that I would take with me, certainly tower coolers are too big of a risk of bending the motherboard or something like that. It's safer with downdraft coolers (if they CPU is low powered enough or undervolted and underclocked a bit) or an AIO.
But I'm not sure if Chinese AIOs from AliExpress are particularly safe in long term. Hope you don't have problems with it, like some reviewers had in videos.
I like air cooling, just because it is easier to install, and less headache to deal with.
And also, congrats!
i was just looking for a video like this, perfect
congrats on the new team mate.
I was using an H60 in my NR200 but just a few weeks ago swapped it out for a Noctua NH-D12L, no regrets.
I was always in the air cooling camp, but as cpu and gpu generations pump more heat, due to the ever increasing power draw, I'm starting to shift towards AIO to keep up with a quiet SFF build. The tech has matured and a lot of the earlier faults have been fixed. ITX cases are better designed now, so it's not unusual to see 240mm AIOs fit with a 300mm gpu (or longer). Thanks for the comparison tests. It's so useful.
I have the exact same thought process.
Congratulations on your newest addition! May she grow to be happy and healthy!
As far as coolers go, I’m still paranoid about AIOs in small environments. Air coolers need so much less maintenance and sometimes can be quieter because the pumps/moving water can actually be notably louder than a tiny amount of air moving over the cooler. But sometimes, the AIO just makes more sense for compatibility.
I'm def in the Air Cooling crowd... I just installed a top-down Noctua NH-C14S air cooler on my i7-10700k inside a Hyte Revolt 3 case. It fit wonderfully and works great!! Less cables, no hoses... this setup was the easiest of the 5 builds I've done in an ITX. in this setup I attached a 120mm pressure-optimized fan on the bottom of the cooler, and 2 140mm fans on the "swinging door" above the cooler (the lower of the 2 140mm fans is above the cooler). In an attempt to improve the exhausting of warm GPU air, the fans actually blow down-top; they blow air out of the case. At some point I will make them top-down 7 see how it impacts CPU & GPU temps. No need to do it now though because all is cool.
Congrats!! Very happy for you and happy to see you back!
the advantage of AiO watercooling is clear. However, since I had my AiO's pump dying for only less than 5 years, I used air cooling till now. The convenience and reliability of air cooling is just better for me in the long run.
Same here, the pump of my H80i died in less than 4y of use, and it was also mounted the "right" way (so that air does not reach the pump). While my noctua nh-d15 on my second build is still going strong since 2014, just had to replace a fan (3moths ago) after about 25'000h of use
I been using aio for 3 years now and decided to go for a id-cooling is-67-xt since I down sized my case. A couple of case fans and a server 120mm fan for the cooler along with liquid metal I was able to drop my temp almost the same to my aio, my aio average 59-63c on full load while the air cooler averaged 60-70 on full load.
Yay, Mike video!
I’ve always been an air cool person. It has always been fun to create good airflow in a case and growing up with an og Xbox 360 has trained me well. You can’t beat the simplicity of fans.
I'd love to see the Sycthe Big Shuriken 3 instead of the 2.
I do also want to note I have 5900x at 145w on a BS3 with a Noctua A12x25 swap and hit 77-78 degrees on a 10 minute Cinebench R23 run. Seems to be a beast of a cooler.
At which mhz? Whats your score?
@@iTouch4444 curve optimizer at negative 24 all cores. Best multi run at 145w is a little over 21500. Cores start at 4.3/4.275Ghz and settle at about 4.25Ghz. Should also add My memory is at 3800 Cl18 with IF at 1900Mhz for 1:1
The longevity of AIOs are usually not worth it because once it begins to fail, your temps will spike through the roof and needs to be replaced immediately whereas with air cooling, you normally just have to worry about the fan which will show audible signs of the bearing wearing out, and doesn't need to be replaced right away.
Congrats Mike...and thanks for another great video!
Thermalright AXP120-X67 is an excellent easy to install air cooler & comes with fan clips for 25mm thick fans @ 77mm height It performs at the cooling level of the Blackridge. If you have the height (91mm) Noctua will supply free upper 25mm fan clips for the L12 Ghost Edition - it runs about 5 degrees C cooler than the Blackridge or AXP120-X67 when both have 25mm thick fans mounted.
I ended up getting the noctua cooler thanks to one of your previous videos, and it went into my torrent case... I can't get the cpu to exceed 44C even with an artificial load. I had a coolermaster tower on there before and it was maxing in the 70C range... A 30 degree drop from a cooler alone is kinda staggering.
So... I don't have an SFF build, but I do have experience with a water cooler. I've been running a 280mm from Corsair since 2017. No issues, no odd noises, seems like it's going to keep running for a while longer. Yes, there are more points of failure in water cooling (just as a mathematical reality), but I don't think the difference is nearly so great in practice as it might seem from a spec sheet.
Water cooling all the way! Never had a problem with them.
Would love to see how the Corsair H60 AIO compares to low height single tower coolers such as the Assassin King 120 Mini (135mm) or the Assassin King 90 (125mm).
too bad Scythe does not have the Ninja Mini anymore, but that was an amazing small tower..
I'm personally for water cooling because I'm confident that I can do the maintenance. But when I build a PC for someone else, I take into account of whether or not they're going to do the repairs themself. Lower experience = air cooled
I used a 240mm Corsair pro capellix on a 5900X CPU, in a phanteks shift air XT, and it's awesome. Ran cinebench for 10min and it never got to 80 deg Celsius
I just recently did this test with a few low profile coolers vs an H60 on a 12700k, but set it to an unreachable power draw so it would thermal throttle. The low profile coolers were able to handle anywhere from 80-120w depending on fan speed (silent to max), but the H60 handled the 150w load at 90c, so it didn't throttle at a reasonable fan speed. The are very worth it for people who expect to cool more than 65w chips in small spaces.
Congrats on new addition! I like both. I go bang for buck. My fave air cooler is the EVO 212 Black or Black RGB. My fave water cooler is the H110.
Congrats on the youngling.
Regarding the review, I tend to go with Air cooling. While and AIO can cool better, in some ITX cases getting everything mounted in the case properly is a pain in the ass.
Just less hassle with an air cooler.
What I often do though is swap the slim fan for a standard one if the case has clearance. Gets a bit better performance and usually better acoustics.
Another great, comparative review!!!! Thank you very much.
One of the things that Optimum Tech has brought up is that the most recent ITX boards have so much crap on them and so little clearance that sometimes you can't fit things like the Black Ridge on there. For this reason, I think AIOs are actually easier to install, so I have to disagree with that assertion. I often hear about the reliability thing but I have been running an H100i for like 7 years and the only time I have a problem is when Corsair resets all my custom fan curves when the software updates. The hardware is working fine.
Man that Black Ridge is really something else lmao, so glad I have one on hand! Good video though I had actually wondered this very thing. Would've been curious to see the thicker Arctic 120mm AIO with maybe one of the 30mm fans on it.
1:55 Thanks for taking India's consensus in consideration. Here taxes are already added in displayed price (as some countries have taxes on billing the product) & as compared to USD prices are always 30%-60% higher. Also, many companies having registered with US & UK origins are considered as luxury brands because comparatively an average citizen's amenities are lower than developed nations.
I got that ID cooling 50X, and absolutely hated the installation on it. Once I managed to install it with what I considered even mounting pressure (due to lack of backplate usage), I couldn't deal with the doubt of whether I overtightened it or not.
Results weren't particularly impressive either, whcih still led me to believe it was not installed evenly. At that point, I decided to throw it away, and ordered a Thermalright AXP120-X67 that has been causing quite a stir, uses backplate and spring loaded screws. Straightforward installation.
I'd love to see that one included in your round-ups. haven;t gotten mine, but have high expectations as a long-time Thermalright fan.
Was thinking to get that Thermalright AXP120 too. Review still very few for that cooler.
right now I'm running an AIO H110 or 110i from Corsair don't remember right now, for more than six years, just hoping that I'll be near it when it fails, But on my next build I will go with an badass Air-cooler, MA620M, probably should be fine for a 5800x running in Stock
Many years have passed since I move to liquid cooling, and I still see little reason for AiOs. They are cheaper than custom loops, but in ITX world, cheap is not really an advantage for many (if not most) ppl. Custom loops just do way better. 5800X + RTX 3080 in sub 15L case at much warmer that 22C room - can be done. For most ppl, to put loop with 280 rad in something like NR200 is not that complicated.
That cost is high, but most of the time the only thing that have to be upgraded is the GPU block. There are parts in my loop that are about 10 years old. And even older functional parts in reserve.
You kinda forgot the biggest reason why aio is preferred: you don’t have to deal with custom watercooling. Custom watercooling is just not for everyone and can be disastrous if done wrong and a leak occur.
@@sentryion3106 Simple soft tubing loop is not complicated at all. Anyone that is able to put together a functioning computer in ITX case should be able to do it. Leaks are overrated. nothing happens if distilled water leaks into the running system. It is much easier do permanently damage AiO - like bending teflon coated tubes a bit too much. Also, AiOs have very limited lifespan. Custom loop have significant performance advantage. Especially in SFF.
You should try, and will be surprised. It is easy to do, with great performance, and even more cost effective in a long run. Not to mention fun and satisfaction :)
Dude you’re the man 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
For me Air cooling left better idle temps and mild usage temps as well. Where the AIO wins out for me is when I beat the systems up doing some video work or compiling new code. Both which are long running tasks and stress out the system well. X299 is a little touchy and only one evga board matx.
The problem is that most ITX cases are not designed with a 120 AIO in mind, you have plenty of options which focus on support for low profile air coolers, but then the next step up is to a 240 aio.
MY GOD I WOULD VE PAID TO SEE THIS VIDEO JUST 2 WEEKS AGO!!!!!!!
my prebuild came with an air cooler. upgraded it to and all in one and never looked back :) Now using a corsair rgb pro 360 in my first pc build. Very quiet aio in my opinion :) and works great
congratulations!
Great video as always, extra points for pronouncing Alpenföhn correctly haha
Add Big Shuriken 3 Rev B. Fits perfectly in a meshlicious case with a 25mm fan.
I've been wanting this video since long
Would you say that Air coolers for SFF builds are better because it actually allows for additional airflow for the components around the CPU? i.e. cooler VRMs/ MOSFETs
Im in the same boat as you, air cooling every time unless a case I need to work on can only work with an AIO. I chose my phanteks shift because of the desk space saved so this is the only PC I will probably own that will have liquid cooling, using the be quiet pureloop 120mm to cool my 5600x and its doing a great job so far but I do want to add another fan to help it some more.
How long did the stress tests take?...I'm asking precisely because of the thermal mass, because once the water system is heated, it becomes clear how much thermal energy the fan can release to the air in the room. A distorted picture is often hidden here, if it is only tested for about five to ten minutes... at least an hour at 100% load shows at what temperature the water settles in water cooling.
Congratulations to the new father...the most beautiful thing you can do in life is to give life😃👍
My ITX PC has a 280mm EK AIO.
There's nothing wrong with air cooling, but I prefer some sort of water cooling in my builds for their thermal capacity. The only time I go for air cooling are for workstations that I don't want to maintain as often.
Another benefit to water cooling is thermal redirection. For example if you have your ITX case in a TV stand, pulling cool air from above is probably less effective than exhausting heat to the rear via a radiator
Nice, that test i need low profile vs aio 120/140mm
The water cooling crowd managed to convert me to air cooling. I have had 6 Corsair AIOs over the span of 2 years (in 3 different models) 2 of them failed in 2 years and 3 of them failed in the span of 2 weeks 😂. No clue what happened but the things just start flashing red and you can’t get them to stop. Tried everything and basically rebuilt my computer trying to figure out what it was but to no avail. The only thing it could have been would be the PSU, but it works just fine now, what can I say. I have a 360 Icue link aio right now working just fine but never switching back to AIOs until I absolutely need to.
Great review Mike! thank you
LC has no unicorn tears in it or smth. One can have bigger radiator and ability to cool it with cooler air. When one has similar radiator surfaces so only advantage is to cool it with cooler air from outside of the case.
Used air cooling/ fan moding until I switched to an aio. Now, my itx build is just whisper quiet when gaming and nothing can beat that!
Had a few water coolers and as someone that travels and loves a quiet system they are just not for me. I've never had a pump that is as silent as a good fan at 200-300rpm. And I've tried almost all of them thanks to my former workplace. Though I have to say that I am very sensitive to noise. For perspective, I don't use be quiet fans, since they have a very very slight clicking noise.
Also, traveling with a water cooler, especially by plane is just an hassle.
Yay new daughter! I have 3 daughters, I love em all! So wonderful! Congratulations!
I like this video, although many of the coolers listed are very hard to find in Canada. I have a lian li q58 and really the only option is the l9i. I have a 6600k
Not really. Amazon has the AXP-90 and a bunch of the ID Cooling options.
Air colling for me is better, because of the long term reliability. If you push any component in the territory over the capacity of air cooling into water, you are way past any effisency points and for me the per/$ or per/W is way more important than the absolut maximum 5% that is unnoticable in day-to-day anyway
I don’t think it’d change the relative performance results significantly, but perhaps testing a game like doom for the purposes of assessing CPU temps under a gaming load is less than ideal. My understanding is that it is super well optimized such that the load is most likely going to be on the GPU under pretty much any reasonable config.
ngl, I didn't have much faith in a 120mm aio since they get trashed by so many people and was shocked how well it did.
Are you sure you that the higher thermal mass of the watercooler is why it has better performance?
I would think it more has to do with the pumped water more effectively carrying the heat from the cpu to the heatsink compared to a regular heatpipe. This would result in a smaller temperature difference between the cpu and heatsink which also means higher temperature difference between the heatsink and ambient air which would mean better performance at the same fan RPM.
It is basically the same principle for why liquid metal performs better than regular thermal paste: Decreasing the temp delta between cpu and heatsink.
Cool test, but I am really missing the normal Noctua NH-L12 with the two fans.
In my FormD T1, I go air cooling because I have a 4080 in there. I need the two top fans to help get as much air in there as possible.
As of writing, the L12 Ghost edition is retailing for $55 USD on Amazon, so not really sure where the price point on here is coming from.
Haven’t seen an info on a new cooler that came out under the company “densium” the cooler name being Z39, supposed to be a sff-use cooler and I was curious how it’d stack up!
Congrats on the new tiny human!
Arctic LF2 120 would probably drop that H60 by 5 more degrees noise normalized, but the issue is that it is CHONKY and will be very specific for some certain low profile scenarios
My only issue with small cases and water cooling is the pipes…
ML08 so even if i wanted to rip a hole in my case and mount one the pipes would snap off or be a pain to screw around with
I want to see AIO’s with into the bottom pipes not into the side pipes
Please test Thermalright AXP120-X67
I think water cooling vs low-profile air cooling is really case specific most of the time. I've never used a low profile air cooler unless the case I was using required it, and most of those cases couldn't accommodate water cooling. I suppose sandwich style cases that can accommodate a 240mm AIO would require a low profile cooler if doing air instead, but a 240mm AIO would always be dominant in those cases (pun intended).
The only exception I can think of is the SG13. I was using a Noctua L12S because it was the largest cooler that would fit AND could exhaust up into the SFX PSU, but I switched to a 140mm AIO attached at the front (once I got a shorter GPU so a 140mm AIO would even fit) and that obviously performed substantially better.
Great video.
What lamp is that in the background? The round one.
It's from a company here in Canada called Structube.
Would be interested to see how performance degrades in an AIO over time.
I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. Right now, in one of my older builds, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I bought it back in 2017. If there's any performance degradation in 5 years, then it can't be much.
I'm using a Black Ridge in pull config with a noctua fan in a Dan A4 for a 3700x and I'm pretty happy with the performance and especially the low noise levels. In the A4 you can only fit a 92mm aio or 120mm with a short GPU, so I think this was the best option.
Actually there would be not a lot of airflow on the motherboard with an aio so it might've affected vrm temps (although probably not with the 65w tdp of a 3700x).
Aircooling. I like those huge heatsinks and I oftend do renders on my pc taking 2-3 days, so I need the safty, that nothing starts leaking.
I'm using IS 50X v2 with stock fan and I must admit I don't push it to the limits but it is so great I am confident it would handle well under heavy loads as well.
I'm surprised you didn't throw a Scythe Shuriken 3 in here. I thought it was fairly popular with the low profile crowd. Actually just ordered one because for the 2nd time in 6 years my H60 went out on me. So on average it seems to last about 3 years. Not very reliable. Opened up to find out there was a ton of sediment in the innards and that's probably what prematurely killed the pump. Otherwise an AIO is KILLER for low cooling temps.
Unless you're ultra small ITX builds, especially when so many sandwich (and even some of the bigger standard) layout ITX cases can manage a 240/280 AIO with room to spare
Is JIUSHARK JF13K Diamond cooler good for modern platforms
I think the Noctua NH-L12S is missing in this comparison - it is usually a bit better than Blackridge.
Regarding what is best - it reaaallly depends on the case. For example, the popular budget Silverstone SG13 usually performs better with the AIO, because the aircooler is blocked by PSU.
I have a Ryzen 5600x in a Phanteks shift XT, started off with a Noctua 65mm cooler it did okay but the CPU almost never boosted to 4.6GZ normally 4.2/3 at best. Swapped to a 240 AIO hit 4.6gz straight away which it would never do previously. Strangely with the air cooler temps never went over 70C, however with the AIO its 55C max. So you would think it would still boost to the max on the air cooler but just would never do it until i installed the AIO.
Exactly this kind of behaviour is the reason people are arguing about aircooling a ryzen 9. Temperaturewise it absolutely works. Only the clocks stay a bit behind their potential.
I think the motherboard is of fault, not the air cooler.
In theory, until a CPU gets to its Tjmax (95°C for 5600X), it should boost at its maximum clock. 70 degree isn't even that high. Many people run Intel Alder Lake on a stock cooler at 90°C, and it still boosts like normal.
It's best to check the motherboard settings when weird things like that happen, water cooling is not magic, it's just cooling with water.
Some motherboards give more TDP to CPU if you connect a water cooling system for some reason, even if the air cooler could have cooled the higher TDP.
@@luckyowl10 That may well be the cause for that phenomenon. It would make sense, for sure.
@@luckyowl10 luckily i have access to two different boards an Aorus pro X570 itx and an B ASrosk B450 also itx, it performed just the same on both boards and improved with the water cooling. Like you i was stumped as my assumption was it should boost fully on the air cooler. I also have a Ryzen 3600XT chip which is a 95 watt TDP, and it did the same thing boosted fully water cooled but not with the air cooler, although in the case the temps were a bit higher 80 on the air cooler and 60 with water cooling.. It's weird though stumped me. I would have preferred to Air cool if I am honest.
I still prefer getting the is40X v2 while keeping my cpu choice to 12100-12400f only before 13th gen comes on my itx rig
I've done both air and water. They are both nice in their own way. No wrong or right answer.
Imagine, just changing from that loud corsair fan to a noctua or arctic... It would be even better
Was that a Nidec Gentle Typhoon or an "upgraded" XPG Vento Pro...?
Let it be known from somebody that had theyre aio blow out on them, if you dont want to ever worry about your pc getting drenched, go with aircooling. Performance < Reliability all the way but nonetheless great video!
Excellent video! To be honest I was impressed that some of the air coolers were close to matching the AIO in temps and in fairness kept the CPU well under thermal throttling range.
I eventually want to do an ITX build and I think if I was to do one I think I'd go for air cooling, simply because I want the smallest chassis possible if I'm gonna do ITX at all.
I was going to use an 120 on my new 12400F build but everyone said 120s were terrible (to at least go with a 240 if I just had to have an AIO). Ended up going with an ID IS-47-XT instead.
These low profile aircoolers are also more likely to offer VRM and RAM cooling where AIOs really only offer cooling to these parts if the case airflow allows
Yet, you ignored the thermalright si-100 that beats the other low profiles