Warmachine MKIV Launch Feels Mad Sus.
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2022
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privateer press set out to do the impossible: outdo the biggest miniature hobbies country in the west. and, in record time, they not only rivaled but SURPASSED their rivals in customer dissatisfaction. an inspiration to the entire hobby
sheeeeeesh, nuclear burn!
An ex staffer interview would be amazing here. That said, warmachine mk2 were fun days. I really miss seeing a packed play area at the Meydenbaur Center for Lock and Load. The last Lock and Load at the Hilton was a far cry from those glory days. People were turned away from panels given by staff at the Meydenbaur due to not enough space for people.
Thanks TDN! Lol I think a current staffer would be better than an ex-staffer. Give a more fair POV IMO. I’d heard about that last LnL event, and it always sounds like a bummer
Yea I miss Meydenbaur too, their AC system was superior to Hilton's glass-topped space.
That was such a spot on video! I own two armies (one for Warmachine, second for Hordes) since mkII. I was actually still excited by mkIII. The game seems to be long dead in middle Europe. Players switched to different systems, mainly GW's. I don't feel that what you say is some rant. It's rather constructive observation and I'm sad, how far Privateer press got with their lack of competence (I guess...). When I heard about mkIV anouncement, I tried to casually google that thing. I can tell you that I had quite a hard time even finding the original text on their web page or any really relevant video. Same with the renders...
It's almost pathetic how lazy, even in comparison to enthusiast stl artists, the presentation is and I'm starting to regret not considering selling my stuff earlier. Because now, with their timeline, they succesfully started at least two year long gap, in which nothing is certain. People will be missing content for their armies and motivation to activelly invest their effort into a soon obsolete edition.
Yeah I hate GW and its just taken over here.
The big thing I've seen is also how many folks are concerned about their legacy models. I'll be honest: I think that's what has them walking on eggshells. The status of Legacy models in Prime and it's rolling layout will make or break it. If existing abandon immediately then it's doomed.
Trying to EOL models is trying to force sales depending on the context. Not cool.
@@CornerCase what's interesting is the number of folks I've seen for years saying "cut the dead weight." Now they're getting it. The minis will have rules (if all goes according to plan) but won't be produced once PP is out of metal and resin.
It's a really interesting thing to see: how many games have collapsed under their own weight or been hobbled in the long run by expanding too much? I've seen store owners talk about the AD&D days - gamers loved the variety but it was an inventory nightmare, lots of dead stock.
Iirc the mini factions will be coming to prime in their near entirely. But this seems to be a compromise between trying a full, WHFB to AOS transition and trying to maintain status quo. The rolling launch doesn't necessarily help but it's a huge project. I hope it works but sticking the landing (so to speak) is going to be quite the feat.
I'd imagine it's like trying to turn a large ship: gotta be slow and deliberate. No speedboat agility, and they don't have the deep GW pockets to weather a bolder move. Starting a whole new IP is probably riskier on top of that.
@@CornerCase did you read the big FAQ? Don't have to believe or agree with it, mind you. I kind of wish they'd transition the old stuff to 3d printing but that's a lot of time thus money and opportunity cost.
Succeed or fail, this will be fascinating to look back on in five years.
@@CornerCase And that was one of the things Privateer claimed to be different about (when MKII came out). Of course to keep selling miniatures you have to make older models either worthless gamewise or expunge them to make room for newer models. Otherwise you get rules bloat with so many units and many with middling differences in performance.
I doubt it. The exisiting player base wasn’t enough. They need a new player base.
Can we get a post release video? It's been a year.
I have a fully painted Circle Oroboros army and I haven't seen anything from the current launch that will bring me back
This is my favorite video of yours. Sometimes holding companies accountable for crap role-outs is needed. You did a good job.
Haha o dang, we’ll thanks Joel! Yeah, tbh, I didn’t really want to make the video, but then I thought “Well shit-if Corvus Belli or Wyrd miss out on sales because of this no-care WM launch, then I really can’t abide that.” Like, it’s hard enough to be a non-GW player, and then this WM launch is going to steal gencon sales from CB and Wyrd? If the launch was handled well, fine. But it’s being handled poorly. I just cant.
@@CornerCase I used to ply competitive WM too. After 40K. And I am side-eye watching this release. I think you put words to my apprehension better than I could. It feels half-baked. A hedge, rather than a launch.
What pushes 40k forward imo, has always been its cultural relevancy. I mean you had people making emperor memes during a presidential election, it has had a huge cultural impact. GW knows this, which is why they cultivate so many video games and books outside of the actual miniatures. GW turned 40k into something other than a mini game, they turned it into a true IP. PP had their chance, but several lackluster books, a horrible video game, ruining a movie deal and just flopping in general on what was their best asset (the world itself) was for me, the reason they fell off so hard. There is a reason GW fans have stuck around through all the guff that the company has done, because the IP of 40K is just too damn good. Warmachine had the potential to do the same, but they squandered it, their talent left, all they can be now is another miniature game at best. It pains me as a die hard OG warmahordes fan but I can't help but see it that way.
Same. I left around the start of Mk2, it was so disappointing that they decided to blow up the fluff of their own game. The Grymkin felt like a shoehorned in vanity project and dropping all their plotlines to focus on a generic demon invasion was just sad.
I also agree and think if they were not trying to do so many other games then WM would be on top. I have heard lots of complaints about the GW40K ruleset being bad compared to WM and that’s what brought those players over to WM. It’s too bad PP seems to have ADHD and can not focus on the important part of their business, the flagship game. I’ve been playing sense MK1.
But people DIDN'T stick around. Many went to PP because GW was dropping the ball.
GW came in again right as PP was fucking up, badly.
And looks like MKiV is now doing very well.
Recent GW prices have sent me back down the WM rabbit hole. I was a mk2 player and man nobody does sculpts like PP. New factions are looking awesome.
Might be time to buy in soon. Once you realize that the rules are free, it's possibly a slightly better deal than a GW buy in. Nothing has been able to scratch the WM itch, it really was great.
I totally agree with you. I also think that PP has something special with this property and game. The art, sculpts, and lore are bangers. They really could leverage it harder and throw some weight, especially if they put out a banger 2 player starter to get people in for a really good deal.
Not sure what do you think folks, but MKIV is a very good game and has fixed many issues from the past for veteran players, new players and retailers. Game experience is great, new lore is cool and the models are amazing. Give It a try bro!
issue is most of my collection for for faithful masses all of those got legends. So unless you have someone will to play the legends format i can't.
Love that Godtear box in the the background! Now that’s an amazing game. Want to see it grow.
Really good take on MK competing only against small scale war games. As someone who only last year got into games besides Warhammer, the market is overwhelmingly saturated. If you weren’t trying to do something different than it’s hard to justify your place.
Thanks ZombieMonkey! Yes, I think about the TRRPG market which has a super low barrier to entry, and has experienced a renaissance of flavors and mechanics. I hope that Miniatures Games can reach that type of diversity soon
If you think PP declared war against other games by... Releasing a product. You got Trump Derangement Syndrome bro. Keep your mask on, your words suck.
If you haven't seen it yet, Robey Jenkins over at precinct omega put out an excellent video covering the history and background leading up to the mk iv announcement for warmachine
Thanks Justin! I think I saw that one. But a few guys on my discord also lived through it, and it seemed pretty intense. Honestly I always thought WM looked cool, and a lot of MFX players are from there, so I always thought I’d enjoy it
Spot on analysis. You should take a look at some of the Glass Door reviews of ex PP staff. They have lost almost the entire staff that was on board for MK II & MK III.
what i've been saying to folks RE: this ... "I really hope they pull this off, it would be great to have another well-made NON-GW game. I just have concerns about PP and the blocking and tackling it will take from an execution standpoint to get there."
Yea totally agree that I want to see more great games, but the execution is totally a barrier. I think the big sins for me are that the launch doesn’t seem to consider either consumers or the industry at large. Tone deaf.
In GW defense, they leave the door WIDE OPEN for any other game to dethrone them with their incompetence.. its just that no one has pulled through yet
Spicy CZcams drama and I'm here from it.
When I first got into ttg, the local crew at the flgs booed me when I picked up a warmachine battle box
And now I play infinity with them lol
LOLOL. I mean follow your heart if you think something is cool, but I ride for infinity despite how encumbered the rule system is 😂
MK2 released when 40k was at a mid point of 5th. MK2 grew quickly and PP mishandled the success.
The fact that a starter box -an intro into the game- is £150(!!!!) Is complete lunacy. 3D printing should have been a way to reduce costs but it's more expensive than ever.
What makes Mk4 more deserving of my £150 than say, TT Combat or Corvus Belli. Both companies provide free rules, systems for list building that are free, and have handled games FAR more effectively that PP.
I don't understand the hype for it. It's expensive, it seems to want to divide players up, and it doesn't actually seem to target anyone.
Agreed. I was shocked to see the sticker price on the new 3d printed stuff. Knowing the 3d printing is much more cost effective than injection moulded plastic
Thanks MMCD! Yes, another reason it’s sus, is because the they didn’t pay for injection molding tooling. Generally these processes like 3D printing are slower per unit than Injection Molding, so they are passing that cost into you. The fact that they didn’t pay for tooling just tells me they didn’t have the capital. It makes me wonder if they literally don’t have any money to operate at all, and are trying to just string along a launch however small. But that’s not enough for the current market.
A good comparison is to compare the primecast "trailer" for mk4 with the mk3 "This Is How War Begins" Announcement video. There is so much passion and soul in the latter that is missing from the current marketing
It's not a lack of passion, they don't have half the staff they used to.
Thanks Jhon! I have heard from a few others that the MK3 video was a lot better! Marketing is the key in this year of our lord 2022
Thanks @Legio! We definitely want to be fair. That’s why in my video, I only commented on improvements that were not directly related to cost or effort. Just improvements that relate to caring enough about the details of the launch. The lack of care is the biggest sin for me.
I read the announcement, and honestly a lot of it sounds like excuses, almost as if Privateer Press is *apologetic* that they’re releasing a new edition. “Hey sorry guys… we didn’t want to have to take this step, but y’know, we kinda need the money and we need our fans to get excited about the game again, sooo… please buy MkIV?” The section on using 3D printing moving forward sounds more like the company doesn’t have the money to use traditional resin/pewter or plastic manufacturing methods anymore, so they’re just going to buy some 3D printers and hope for the best. I have no idea how they expect to keep up a worldwide supply of new minis using just printers.
As for everything else, you touched on this a little bit in your video, but it’s a very lackluster announcement overall. This should have been everywhere- I should be seeing content creators on social media and CZcams excitedly unboxing new MkIV minis and talking about the rules. Privateer Press just isn’t that great at their marketing, and I get the feeling that they’re expecting their current customers to do all the heavy lifting and bring new customers into the game. I’ll be curious to see how this edition does.
Thanks Tiny Fish!
Relying on consumers to do the marketing is the old school way. I think it’s very powerful, but it should by no means be the primary marketing method, and it needs a lot of support. They’re basically gambling that people give a shit 😂
god bless the glory and golden days of MK2
One year down the line, there are some things that Mark IV did well. Smaller model counts is a good thing, as is faster play. I like the new way that infantry works, the new 360 front arc for every model, and giving all jacks/beasts/etc dual attack. Customizable loadouts for Jacks and Beasts is a bit iffy, but I don't mind it too much. Spell racks and command cards are a good idea that was a long time coming.
I've even come to terms with the new factions. Advancing the storyline is interesting, and I like the new Iosan faction (Dusk House Kallys). Not the biggest fan of the Khymaera as a followup to Legion of Everblight.
My biggest complaint is the way the new Prime armies for Legacy factions are set up. Thagrosh the Messiah, for example, can no longer take blighted elves in his army. Ravyn has lost complete access to House Shyeel warjacks. There are many Leaders that aren't available in Prime at all. And playing Legacy means you don't get access to the spell rack system or customizable loadouts for jacks and beasts: the latter is understandable, but the former is just confusing.
The one army that I built for Mk II that's still usable in Mk IV Prime. . . was the Talion Charter privateer force led by Shae that I built as a "fluff" army because I liked the lore and models. That might be the direction that I take with Mk IV: don't treat it like a serious wargame, but more as an excuse to participate in the hobby.
I love a good, well-reasoned rant, and this video delivered same in spades. Sus-scribed! 🙂
TLDR: As an old MKI/II player, Blackwind hands down. I was active in mkII and what pushed some of us out was Privateer's insistence of following the path of the loudest minority in the community. For a successful re-launch they really need to dial back in on what will appeal to the largest group of people. What will get new players. Appealing to previous players just won't cut it imo. This was an amazing chance to start fresh. Story wise you can do a time skip, or make it a 'prequal' type setting. New figures, new factions, new heroes, but that isn't what they are doing. Half of their road map lays out when old figures are being converted to the new rules. I just don't think that is the direction this particular company should be shooting f
Thanks as always Randy!
Yes, i super agree with that they had a ton of opportunity to make the launch good. It’s not too late. They have so many angles for improvement.
Nope, there is like 20 years timeskip, new stuff all around, easier access for new players with less boxes, simplified rules, no more templates, et cetera. They are allowing some of the old stuff back, but they are definetly turning a new leaf.
Some of the old stuff will be converted over. The rest will be usable in the "free for all, screw balance" format of OP games. Which I'm really sure a lot of tournament organizers will wholeheartedly embrace. [insert Homer Simpson voice: "By the way, I was being sarcastic."] Nah, no organizer in their right mind would do that. If people wanted to play that way they'd be playing the current incarnation of WarmaHordes. Plus the bitching from players about it not being close to balanced would not be worth it. "If nothing is balanced, then everything is balanced" is NEVER a game design philosophy that should be seriously embraced.
@@wyrdhunter Well, that is exactly the reason why they are reseting the stuff. There is too much stuff for them to balance, so they are remaking it with less stuff and more balanced play.
@@legio1942 That doesn’t help my existing WM armies (Retribution, Cyriss, and Cephalyx) or my Hordes armies (Circle, Skorne, and Everblight). :/
One thing I think is being very overlooked on the Mk4 boxes and such are the quantity of options that it includes. Magnetizable warjacks, adaptable spells for casters and OPG command cards all in the same game give that box a ton of different ways to play it, which I think takes the sting out of the high buy-in a bit since it could give you a large number of different configurations compared to another starter-level SKU like a GW "start collecting" box. That said, the criticisms as to HOW PP is marketing all this are legitimate and I agree it'd take a bit of explanation to convince a new player to go in on a $200 box, options be damned. I'm kind of a WM die-hard and want to see them succeed (Ex-GW, Ex-Malifaux, sad Ex-Guild Ball, never played Infinity), but this perspective is reasonable. Time will tell, as you say.
Thanks Blake! Actually I don’t think the $200 price tag is unfair. I am sure that the game is fun and the models are nice. But that isn’t enough these days, and I think without proper marketing, it’ll end in heartbreak.
This was my problem with Dark Souls - Steamforged purposefully occluded the sculpts and had nothing but 3d renders on their boxes, making you think you were getting a higher quality sculpt than you actually did with their melty-ass PVC
We ain't here to make hits
We’re here to take shits
MK3 was a huge release with a brand new launch website, hype, quizzes to take to find out what faction you were. But the rules were the same as MK2 from my casual eyes with mostly some balance and points changes. I was hoping so much for some real streamlining back then. It looks like they are finally doing it now. And I’m excited to see what they make of MK4. I do wonder if we’re in a demo phase and they will do bigger launch events and stuff as we get closer to the full release.
Me too. This feels like a proper new version.
Notice how he didn't like this comment, and only liked the comments throwing shade at Privateer. Does this guy even play Warmachine?
PP was doing great in MK II, then dropped the ball(s) heavily on MK III. Smgdh. No one in the Austin/San Antonio area even plays at stores any more, and no store locally has inventory.
We will bring HORDES AND WARMACHINE BBAAACK.... !!!!
So are they updating all the old models in fine cast? Or are they just releasing new units in fine cast?
LOL this comment has a few layers 😂
they need to bring back all the old heros and monsters
Yes when I heard about mk4 I got kind of excited because I've missed out on the old editions of warmachine. But honestly I lost interest for the lack of cool art/text/photos/videos... Its even hard to find something about mk4 in google
Thanks as always Manuel!
Yeah it’s kindof a bummer. And like I argue in the video, I really do think there are a lot of potential improvements to the launch that are free or nearly free with just a little more care.
I would like to point out that the models get shown off in individual posts exclusively with little fluff tidbits for the army they're a part of. And these blog posts started before the announcement of mk4 and possibly before the decision (specifically for the orgoth and cygnar armies). I didn't check the date, but it's entirely possible that since the release of this video the khador army has had reveals as well, if not before. So that's just how they do their hype train.
They have also admitted that they have no idea what they're doing with the 3d printing stuff and that this is a learning experience, so I'm pretty sure they'll get there. Finally the rules are all quality of life things. AOE's and Sprays are simplified and now expandable or modifiable, AOE's are also more powerful than in previous editions while still not being too ridiculous, model movement is simplified and easier to understand (mostly a thing for units but still important). The prime and unlimited arena's are what gets me most but that's to try and get new players into the game more easily.
Finally, Privateer Press has 3 other miniature games, one of them (monpoc) is probably the most popular game of its variety out there. (Giant monster fights are cool ya know?) So the fact that they actually looked at the game and said "we don't want this game to die" is actually kinda nice. Especially since GW let fantasy die to replace it with AoS... Which Privateer Press could have done with the release of Warcaster. Also they're merging hordes into Warmachine which is pretty much how it should have been from the start.
Spot on points man. I got excited when I heard Mk4 and was immediately let down when I looked at the launch site. I played a TON during Mk2 and had like five full armies. I would love to bring out my Mercs again but this edition isn't looking like I will.
Dang 5 armies! You were in it! I know the feel, man. I’ve got 4 Guild Ball teams RIP 😂
Edit-I know GB teams aren’t as big as WM armies.
I had 2 armies. Mk3 killed the entire game. Nobody I know still plays. It’s really sad.
Would love an update on this
This does seem like the last gasp of whoever holds the IP license
Great insight! Loved the video and gave me a new perspective. I’m definitely going to wait and see how it turns out but wait a little bit before diving in
I’m honestly curious, but unless a big change happens, I feel weird about it
You do bring up very good points about why the release feels sus, lots of things that I didn't even think were big deals until you phrased it the way you did.
However, reading the beta rules and seeing the beta cards, it looks like a big effort was put into streamlining the rules, which was my biggest complaint abt MK3 being that the rules were way too crunchy and unnecessarily complex. That being said, everything you pointed out about the release does ring true, so I feel conflicted.
Thanks Dan!
I think I didn’t do a good job of succinctly describing my gripe, and that’s that this launch isn’t prioritizing new players at all.
I think they’re leaving money on the table if they’re not targeting the 8th edition babies.
@@CornerCase I agree, they didn't set themselves up to target those ppl well at all. I think the rules would be interesting enough for 40k refugees, but they won't know bc it wasn't marketed to them correctly at all.
@@Exidous96 While rules play the part, majority came to 40k because of the lore. I knew 40K through a video game called Dawn of War and we can easily find 40K lore everywhere on youtube as well.
And the shell games begin. Losers like this creator invent a fake war against small game companies and GW laughs to the bank.
@@kosmosfantasias7545 I agree, 40k definitely has reached a size where the lore and models can carry alot. IDK exactly how to phrase it but I feel that there's a divide between folks who collect and game every once in a while, and folks who play alot, and a percentage of the ppl who play alot are looking for a game with tighter rules. Not sure if I succinctly described that feeling, but something close for sure.
It's been really concerning too watching all the big names (Shick, Dallas, Pagani, Oz, Hungerford, etc) all leave. I know it's not like an 'end-all-be-all,' but when the names people associate with the company have a mass exodus then that is really telling on the state of the company.
Note about their starters. The battlegroup sets are going for $75, and the army boxes are $200. In today's world that is a lot of hobby dollars. $75 is pretty much a core box and second box for Malifaux, and $200 pretty much an Operation and Beyond box for Infinity.
Why should I be excited for this release when the company that makes it doesn't seem to be? Sell me on MKIV, it feels like an afterthough. Just my two cents.
Thanks Ryker!
Not to mention $300 is a whole ass infinity army now. I’m really considering the Army Collection sets.
Hungerford should have left first, it would have been better for the company and game.
Fantastic analysis
Thanks Animal!
Meanwhile, Battletech is enjoying a new golden age. It's already a tough market nowadays.
Battletech story could be pretty fun to cover. That game is super old. Like how did it suddenly glow up 😂
@@CornerCase A combination of a couple of (very) successful Kickstarters to bring the minis game back into stores, a popular Turn-Based Strategy Game (Battletech on PC, you can get it on Steam and GOG), and a popular CZcams series that lays out the lore in long form video essays (Tex Talks Battletech). It also helps that they sell Lances (4 mechs, which is all you need to play Classic), for 20-25 bucks a pop.
I invested in Rivenstone. $200 got me two complete armies and THREE sets of terrain.
SW Legion has $120 battleboxes that are FULL armies.
Killteam and Warcry now have free rules.
All will get my attention before PP.
Late to the party, but I 100% think PP doesn’t have the staff/talent to support Warmahordes. They admitted in the announcement posts that they basically don’t have the staff to update the legacy backlog, which is one of the reasons they’re restarting the focus with brand new armies.
I also am guessing they don’t have the cash or talent to afford traditional metal casting. I’ve no doubt that the price of metal has gone up, but when rando Oldhammer casters can still crank out their retro sculpts or niche historicals can still make variant 30 Years War sculpts, it seems odd that PP suddenly can’t afford metals anymore.
It also felt really pathetic that they seemingly went out of their way to take swipes at GW over WHFB/AoS and even at Siocast over its proprietary casting tech.
Not to mention that PP now “owns” the biggest FB group for Warmahordes, and their mods have actively deleted and removed critics and especially the initial criticism from people at gencon that the sample $75 boxes contained unfinished resin bits that were causing chemical burns during assembly.
great video, agree 100% with this POV.
💯💯💯💯💯
WM/H initially intrigued me because of the smaller scale, lower cost, quicker play, and the theme. All of those beat WarHammer any day in my book. I think they should have designed "wide" instead of "deep". Keep the focus on smaller scale play, fast and aggressive like the Page 5 claimed, and introduce new factions if more products are needed. Squaring up against GW in their playground was a mistake. I'd love to see PP as a contender in the market. I don't think their route to that success is by playing the same game as GW, either as a company, or for the players. They need to embrace what makes their systems work, not bury them under bloated special cases and huge armies. Just play fast and fierce. Yes, it's a wargame, at heart a thinky thing, but if they are just going to be WarHammer Lite: Steampunk Version, they simply can't do anything more than what GW lets them get away with.
Do you really think Infinity is doing as well as that example chart? Infinity is my fave game, I just didn't realize how much it's growing.
If you go by discord server numbers, the Infinity group is only slightly larger than the Malifaux group at 3.6K > 3.3K. If you go by CZcams creators, YT views, TTS activity, I think the infinity group is quite a bit larger. The anomaly is A Wyrd Place Facebook group that’s bigger than the Infinity Global Community Facebook group. I think N4, combined with TTS accessibility during the pandemic and an accessible sci-fi aesthetic have been pushing infinity growth.
Im not the WmH player (but i got some second hand trollbloods)
and when i saw the announcment, i thought: nice, they try to cmmunicate with people.
and then i raed reasons for the next edition and was like: that is sad. I was expecting some coppo-bullshit about creatig better expeariance not the sad statement that they do not have money.
aaand then i totally forgot about it.
I really like when studio communicate to peope and explain their reasoning. both for rules and more general things. I would love read something like that even if its only about money. I mean, we are all adult, we get it.
But its not the way to announce new edition. no excitment. no joy, no life. Just bunch of old guys that are forced to go on with this game that they no longer care about because they all have mortgages to pay and studio is owned by souless fund. - that is the feeling i had
Thanks as always Tomasz!
Honestly I kindof felt like I was kicking them when they were down, which is why I didn’t make the video sooner.
But when I heard some people were actually thinking of buying, I just thought “this game looks like it’s obviously going to die lol. People shouldn’t waste their time” and “CB and Wyrd tried way harder, and they shouldn’t be losing sales and potential new players to this shit launch.”
More like "constant power creep mk.IV". Been there, not going back.
Thanks as always Vlad! Bummer if you see Codex Creep on the horizon
They also should have at least had army boxes for the four original factions at launch.
I strongly agree with you. Every description of Mark IV that I've seen indicates Privateer has removed things that I like about Warmachine. I'm waiting for the official release, to see what Mark IV is actually like, but I don't think I'll put any money into it.
Every moves PP have made since mkIII have smelled of either desperation and lack of resources.
I would love to see them succeed and regain some of their past luster but none of this feels like it has the legs to truly get a good head of steam. Just looking at the road map, it seems obvious to me one of their bottle necks is speed of production. Even if its an awesome game, how many will pass it by just because they can't easil6 get their hands on it. How many FLGS will be hesitant to carry a range that can't deliver, especially if they still remember getting stuck with old stock that they couldn't move at any price. ( my local store told me point blanc when Warcaster came out "NO")
Good video. Haven't watched your channel before but if this is you being aggro I think you dont have much to apologize for. Reading there announcement page was kind of weird. I remember thinking the company shouldn't be telling me how much room their game takes up at brick and mortar stores they should be telling me to be excited about all the changes they have made to make the game better. I loved MKII Warmachine and they straight up lost me when MKIII arrived. It seemed more unit heavy and everything about the game looked like it was a reason just to buy more stuff. If I wanted to play an army scale game I would just play GW games and that's what I did. Even the QWarmachine aesthetic changed to me. The models started looking like Malifaux which was another game I played already and didn't feel like it was something I was missing in Warmachine. Regardless I am interested to see if PP releases STL files to consumers and at what cost. I haven't broke down and bought a 3D printer yet but if it becomes the industry standard I will in the future. Thanks!
No, no, no. It seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding the 3D printing that PP is doing. They're not selling any STL files. They DON'T want you to print your own minis. Instead of casting them or using plastic injection molding, PP are going to use 3D printing to print the models themselves and then sell you those 3D printed models for $200.
@@sleeplessknight99 no I understood that but the next logical step would be to sell STL files. My thought is nothing will be cheaper regardless.
I like people giving their honnest opinion rather than sugar coting everything. I really like warmachine but I thing my emotions were clouding my jugement. Thank for your analysis that make me take a step back to be more realistic about that.
Wasn’t much of an analysis. Just another somewhat pessimistic opinion.
This was an excellent breakdown of the launch and its issues without the hyperbole I’ve come to expect from other war gaming channels, I have never even played Warmachine but like you, I wholeheartedly want to see viable competition for GW. This is not it.
I think some PP staff are depressed.
Yikes!
Oof yeah, putting to words what a lot of the issues I was seeing with the Mk4 release. Just feels a little rushed for GenCon.
Thanks Vertrucio! Yeah, feels mad rushed. Just needs more care, you know.
12:25 Yep.
The new Khador warjacks looked pretty cool tho
Haha the models do look cool. But MMF minis look pretty sick, too, now. If PP isn’t going to pull in new players and nurture a community, then it’s not any more compelling than the average STL business.
I'm not switching to MKIV. MKIII is great and didnt need to be revised, and I don't like the changes they're implementing. I'm sad about it, honestly. And you are 100% right. This release is half assed. Dont apologize! Keep being honest, your viewers appreciate it!
Totally agree!
Thanks F!
Hello. I'm pretty fresh in wargaming (around 3 years with 2 years of covid madness). Warmachine was my first game and I'm quite salty about it... It was more expensive and uglier than other games (but friend convinced me to play it, we played it together literally twice). Was kind of fun to play but let me say it's not game for me. I won literally 2 games during that time lost over 40. Thinking about MK IV with hope I like some changes. Some changes I would like to see don't appear there. But looking at prices I say big NO. Starter box with around 20-30 models for 200$, battlegroup with 3 minis for 75$? They are crazy. 75$ is literally equivalent of 40k combat patrol box in my local FLGS with many high quality miniatures.
Now I'm thinking about selling my army if I get lucky I'll get even 60% of price that I payed for them in cheapest store in country...
Oof. Thanks for sharing your experience Pawelotti. You sound amazing for playing over 40 games still. I don’t think I would have played 20 games with that type of experience. What games are you playing now?
@@CornerCase for fun and getting new people into hobby I play OPR Grimdark Future with my 40k minis. It's really simple and fast paced with alternative activations. Other than that from time to time I play Corvus Belli Infinity. It's not perfectly balanced game but really close to it (most minis are metal and new sculpts are beautiful and easy to assemble without pinning). Also played few games of normal 40k... But amount of rules made the games to long. It took us 7 hours to complete 1500 point game checking the rules almost every action taken. In OPR version similar scale game take us around 1 hour so it's better to play few short games than exhausting long one :)
Also I've started mini painting and wargaming group in my office :D we play or paint in the office after work and usually some other people step by to see what it is and slowly get more interested into the hobby :D Few of them already say that they won't get into it because it's expensive but then I see them searching through 40k combat patrol boxes online :D
OPR is pretty good. I think it is bloating now that it’s adding more stuff, but when I tried it back in January, small game, it was pretty fast and fun.
Dude office group is the best! Congrats setting that one up. I haven’t had that since X-Wing 1.0 days!
I was excited about Warmachine being another alternative to GW, but it just seems like a low-effort copy now.
I don’t feel like they want to sell me a product, I feel like they just want my money.
I’d love to see them prove me wrong and sell me some minis!
Thanks as always! Yeah I feel like a lot of people share this sentiment. What a bummer
i went into this trying not to agree. balanced opinion IMO a good call out
The idea that PP, even at the height of MK-2 was a danger to GW is a myth. Its a common myth among gaming communities that have what they see as a successful or thriving product. If you talk to the people who own these companies about their revenue stream compared to GW (or Hasbro with Magic for example) - if they are honest - they'll tell you that they don't have anything like the market share you thought.
On the matter of MK-4 the whole "3D printing" thing doesn't sound viable in the way they are talking about it. Nothing they have said gives me confidence they can put 8 + starters 2 or 3 deep in a significant number of hobby stores. If they had said they were moving to one of the thermoset plastic options that are being used by Reaper, Corvus Belli or the people behind Rivenstone, I would be a lot more certain.
But, hey, at least I have an excuse to paint my old Satyxis now.
Thanks Obsidian! Super agree with all your points. If 3D printing instead was that efficient, I’m sure other companies would be doing it. If it is more efficient, but harder to setup the infrastructure, I could buy that, but from PP current effort level, I don’t buy it.
I wasn’t around for or wasn’t watching at height MKII, so I only know the second-hand myth.
Really well thought out argument here.
I don’t think they lack confidences in their product. They lack finances.
Outside a few demonstration games I don't play/collect Warmachine/Hordes but there are a couple of things I have noticed about Warmachine/Hordes and it's playerbase even in it's heyday.
-Is it actually a good game?
Everytime I hear a Warmahordes player talk about the game they're always talking about how much better it is compared to Warhammer because almost every Warmahordes player I've encountered is an ex-GW player. It feels like someone who just broke up with their girlfriend, started dating someone new, but still pines for the ex-girlfriend so all they talk about is how much better the new gf is compared to the ex.
-It seems like the tournament scene kept Warmachine/Hordes afloat but that harbored a toxic playerbase with a win at all costs mindset. I've seen that push away new players and without fresh recruits and a growing playerbase that is a ticking timebomb that contributed to the game and community imploding.
-Warmachine/Hordes models aren't that great. If there was no game people would still buy Warhammer minis just to build and paint. The people who buy Warmahordes seem to be completely game focused. They only buy stuff to be tokens in their game. I have never seen anyone buy a Warmahordes model strictly as a hobby project.
-Warhammer models have wide appeal because their designs piggyback off of popular sci-fi, fantasy, and pop culture tropes. Warmachine/Hordes is mostly steam-punk and fantasy. Even at it's height, steampunk was still very niche and it's popularity today has waned. Seriously, how many steam punk movies can you think of off the top of your head? Will Smith's Wild Wild West? Mortal Engines? Okay, now how many of those are good?
-Warmachine/Hordes models aren't very beginner friendly. GW has entry level models that snap together in their starter sets. The metal and resin models from Warmahordes require specialist knowledge to assemble. With most Warmahordes players being ex-Warhammer players they'll have built up their modeling skills from their time building Warhammer so the learning curve isn't as difficult for them. But for someone completely new to the miniature wargame hobby, building metal and resin models is a much more daunting task.
Thanks Sleepless!
Yeah, I think a lot of what you're questioning are things that are in the control of the community. Lately my POV is that no game is perfect, and communities can choose to be innovative and positive. So I actually don't think too much about if Warmahordes is or will be a good game, but I believe that the way PP is handling their new launch isn't starting the community off right.
I'll add that one of the reasons I stopped playing was the tournament mentality. It got boring dealing with everyone putting out thier best stuff and at the end of mark II it was basically use the newest stuff as it was not designed with the same level of balance or consideration of crazy combos.
Honestly. My first impression was hey good to see them trying to fix this troubled game and bring it back (im sorry but it was on the resusitation bed.) But whats followed is not just sus its, concerning, very concerning I feel
Thanks Jason!
It is super bizarre. Honestly I’ve always been interested in playing it. Kindof a bummer.
What tells you that?
I think we are so used to be lied to and given the run around, that Privateer Press’s honesty is taken the wrong way. They have been very upfront about the reason for MK4 and the changes, literally the opposite of “sus”. Now they absolutely have to stick the landing for it to work, so we shall see. I think we are seeing a huge pain point where traditional manufacturing isn’t viable anymore and where they’ve gone so long between editions that the game is going to be vastly changed to be brought into current times. I believe it will shed and gain players, but who knows if it will be net positive. I am excited for a new edition, been playing since mk2, and hope for the best.
Does anyone else feel like this is crazy soon, considering that they basically did a "3.5" last Fall?
So how would one go about competing with 40k exactly?
I dunno, but it definitely shouldn't be hard for Privateer Press to do. After all, it's commonplace for a company of fewer than 100 employees to successfully fight international gaming giants on their own turf, right? I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation to think that Privateer Press should be trying to compete with GW. They do not have the resources to do that. And their launch announcement has been one of the most honest and transparent posts from any game company I've ever seen, so I'm already rooting for that.
On my end, as a long-time 40k player feeling burned out by the GW machine, Warmachine MkIV honestly has my attention and I'm pretty excited for it.
That said, I've never really been a Warmachine player. I bought a single Warjack and Warcaster almost two decades ago, because I was interested in Skrimish games, but then about a month later they dropped Warmachine Prime and went whole-hog on "This is a wargame now, we want you fielding 100 models if possible" and I don't think I even bothered to paint them.
I know that not having any investment in the previous versions of the games is one of the big reasons I'm excited for this, but I'm still disappointed in Dek's analysis, which seems very shallow and just... not very well-informed.
Haha thanks WarLore! In short, I think we need a critical mass of people in one or two non-GW games. I use MTG meta games as an example here. In a healthy metagame, no deck archetype makes up more than 10% market share, and a Tier 1 deck is winning no more than 50% of the time. While I think 10% max market share is excessive, I think 30% market share max would be pretty nice. Even 50%. But 40K is full blown like 80-90%. I think what we can control marketing as Tubers, as we can decide what to cover, and artificially inflate the visibility of certain games.
Thanks Komaru!
We can discuss this topic in more detail if you’d like.
Honestly, PP doesn’t have the marketing horsepower to even approach GW. The power level is too disparate.
I actually think my analysis is deeper than other CZcamsrs, who are just following the specifics of the rules changes, and 3D printing.
I care about the miniatures gaming industry. I like to play good games even if they aren’t popular. It’s tough to play these less popular games with the current 40K market share. WM is not doing the industry a service with its current launch. I didn’t want to be mean about it, but that’s what it is.
If you think the game is going to be fun, go for it. I didn’t discuss if the game is going to be fun, or if the models are going to be nice, because I’m sure the game is fun and the models are nice.
But fun game and nice models are not what make a miniatures game successful. Communities do that. And this launch isn’t focused on building new communities.
@@CornerCase First off, how dare you respond reasonably and with thoughts and clarification, this is the CZcams comments section for gods' sake! Now I must ALSO respond reasonably XD
In all seriousness, I do appreciate the reply. And despite your salt, this is perhaps the LEAST click-baity reaction I have seen yet. I've been checking in every day to see if anyone has a battle report, or some serious thoughts on the rules changes, but most folks seem to be trying to ride the outrage train, or making a lot of noise with no signal. Your response feels like it's an actual response, not a performance to attract views.
You are definitely more on the pulse of the Warmahordes community than I am, so you probably have more insight into that particular reaction.
I think my biggest frustration was the suggestion that PP compete with GW for market share, and I just can't see that happening from a pure resource standpoint. Not to say it can't be done, but... even CB and their continual improvement and evolution of Infinity remains a very niche game, despite supporting TTS tournaments, monthly video updates, and incredible community engagement. Plus, that PRICE POINT. CB wins there.
I wonder if perhaps PP is taking the opportunity to try and do "less, but better" in a way that not even CB is able to field right now, by shrinking their range, changing their manufacturing process, etc.
But even then, it feels like I am missing the point of your video. It seems like you're not so much disappointed in the game or the changes, but rather the way it's been communicated. And for me, the way it's been communicated is fine (I do genuinely love that blog post) but I agree that it could have been... smoother, I guess?
Regardless, I do hope you cover more MK4 content. I really enjoy your stuff, especially Infinity coverage. Basheer, who you had on to talk about Haqqislam, is one of the folks who helped teach me to play!
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and I hope you have a great day!
@@CornerCase PP doesn’t really have ANY marketing horsepower. All you need to do is take a look at their Instagram. It should be full of pictures of the new MkIV minis, and… it’s not. They should be sharing pictures from painters who are working on the minis, posting Stories about the new edition, Reels showing gameplay. And none of that is happening. Shoot, they’re still posting text links in their posts- which in Instagram you can’t click on anyways. This is like Instagram 101. I’m *terrible* at social media and even I know these basics.
People want to be sold. Classic sales and marketing.
I am a current/about to stop Warmachine player. Loved the game since MkII. Won't be buying mk4. There was very sus + shady stuff happening over the course of the release + GenCon, and PP lost my trust as a company over it. I'd have gone with them into a new edition, even a worse new edition, but the way they were treating their players and fans was not okay.
So I've been playing Infinity. And finding other cool niche non 40k options.
Thanks for this vid. You're spot on. "Sus" is the right word here.
As a PP fanboy of mk2 and I quit in mk3. I can tell ya I have serious reservations about mk4 and the beta mk4 rules stink like mk3 launch 2.0
I want PP to succeed. I have very little confidence after seeing the 3d prints and beta rules. The 3d prints look like my first year of 3d printing or some small start up. Not something you want as an actual retail product.
I can tell you the former warmachine community at least locally are playing MCP and infinity primarily. Neither group seems overly warm on mk4 and the overlapping players are looking sideways at PP for not having hordes factions at launch. Then there is giving existing model collections the end times treatment, most of us lived through that slap in the face.
If I had to recommend mk4 or another game.
I would recommend at least 5 games in front of mk4 today, until PP gets more out there because mk4 is not looking like a good investment. The game would completely depend on your local community and taste.
Those games are
Infinity
MCP
Battletech
Kings of war
Malifaux
Oh and yes I am salty AF over retribution being thrown out like a the contents of a chamber pot.
Thanks as always Snark!
Retribution was like the coolest looking army IMO.
Yeah, I feel like I want PP to be the comeback kid, but this feels super weird. I think it’s definitely somehow oddly hyper sensitive to the failure of the MK3 launch, but somehow insensitive to the community and new players 😅.
I honestly felt bad making this video, but also, I felt like they didn’t deserve any sales they could be poaching off more deserving games like Infinity and Malifaux
I hope that Top 5 list isn’t in any particular order 😏
At its best, Warmachine and Hordes were split into 2 games, but combined were ABOUT 40k levels, and X-Wing passed 40k at the time. MK3 killed them, they are not coming back.
I was kinda of excited for Mark IV
Then.....
Heroscape was announced
Sorry WM and PP
Many of us were waiting for PP to come back for a long time
Eh, I get what you're saying about the delivery method and the blog post, but I don't think that's sus. I think its a result of staff cut backs and not having capable people who know how to communicate over blogs, YT or social media.
Imma wait to see what happens to my elves, otherwise imma play with my ltd release factions
Thanks Ken! Hope it works out for you!
which elves. Since if it is ret. Ret is dead.
@@flameknightdragon yeap, imma wait til there stuffs came out (them dead Elves, tho some ret is confirmed to be legacy i.e. mage hunter)
the idea that mkII was anywhere close to 40k is pure fantasy I'm afraid. It was really the most successful thing and a clear second place but PP never approached critical mass in that way, except maybe in the specific US Tournament-player geographies... which is not even close to the sales engine that keeps 40k operating
Thanks Kendall!
I wasn’t around for that, so I’ve been relying on hearsay. It does seem like that 5th-7th 40K was a peak of GW fandom fatigue, so it was probably a combination of WM being pretty popular, and GW being especially unpopular during that time that contributed to the myth
@@CornerCase yeah I think tournament players are also the original vocal minority so if they were judging the market by what they saw, there's good reason for them to repeat that perception. But GW is a PLC which reports numbers we can scrutinise to a huge degree whereas the privately held PP can't be judged to the same extent. They came close, and GW really did respond to the threat, but X-Wing and Legion verifiably supplanted it in second place throughout the last decade as evidenced by game store industry/distributor data.
I feel like PP knows what they are doing. Generally. Their issue is they have bad marketing and social media presence. Shitty Skype voiceovers and like entry level video editing
Thanks Veil! I think that marketing is a huge requirement for miniatures games now. What separates any miniatures game company from the hoard of STL businesses now? A strong ecosystem of product with a thriving community. Marketing is the main way to build those things. Most models are good enough. Most games are good enough.
Some people will always find a way to be disappointed and call doom & gloom
Thanks Connor!
Sorry if I yucked your yum. If you watch my other videos, I hope I prove that 95% of my content is excited and optimistic.
However, it’s tough to play non-GW games. The communities are small. I don’t think it’s fair that this WM launch is potentially syphoning sales from other GenCon launches when it’s done this poorly. But I think that’s a very real possibility, as WM is a household name, and a lot of people remember the golden age. But that’s not the case anymore. Other CZcamsrs are only covering WM rules changes and WM 3D printing.
So yes. Doom and gloom for a reason.
Thought #2: Is there anyone who doesn't think that Mk4 is a relaunch of the entire company?
As a guy who actually loved Mk III, there are a few quality of life improvements in the new edition, but also everything I loved about Mk III has been gutted to create a more ordinary game.
When they're shedding the collections, the lore, and the mechanics, they're not going to keep a lot of their playerbase.
So when they're not actually marketing to new players, they're going to be losing their playerbase for ... not a lot.
Oof. That’s a really devastating take, Mouse. Like they stripped it down to make it more accessible, but didn’t actually market to new players? They’re just bleeding players with that formula 😰
Actually be very keen to see your opinions now 7 months down the line with what we've seen this far both pros and cons.
I’ll give it another look soon. Looks like they’ve still been pushing.
compare this to the recent One D&D announcement. Every marketing material I've seen for One D&D has been laser focused on the consumer experience, X has changed and here's why that's better for your experience. When the MKIV blogpost came out I didn't even finish reading it because I'm not already a warmachine player and it wasn't quickly clear what they were announcing. Really poor marketing on PP's part imo. Good vid as always thanks Dek
Thanks Atlas! User experience is the number one most important thing for any product system!
I've been playing since Mk2 and have been playing through Mk3. A lot of the issues you have with the rollout I also have. It comes down to PP having a very terrible marketing team. They've always been terrible at social media. They can't make a decent video to save their lives in recent years. They lost a lot of people and this rollout screams that.
Thanks Justin! I hear you. That’s rough. But I think marketing is the single most important driver for the success of these games now, and if they were serious, they’d work on it. The article format they used to announce the details of the launch is flat out unacceptable now.
@@CornerCase Oh definitely. Like you said in the video if they were serious this rollout would have been bigger and marketed to hell like so many other companies do. I can't imagine why they haven't fixed this issue yet.
There's no need to sugarcoat it by calling it "sus". The launch was terrible.
I've never seen a company with less confidence in their product than Privateer Press. The first thing you see in an article is "Don't Panic", which creates this expectation that we should be on the verge of panic. PP thinks that the state of their game is so poor that they need to apologize for releasing a new edition.
The changes also rub me the wrong way. PP took the approach of "simplifying" the game to make it more accessible, but anyone who plays video games knows there's a vast difference between "simplifying" and "dumbing down" in competitive games and how frustrating it can be when developers get it wrong. MK4 is dumbed down. There's still a bunch of special rules, there's still a lot of finicky measurements, there's still an excess of math. Even the rules that are implied as "simplified" aren't simpler, they're just GONE. And from the battle reports I've seen with the beta rules, it doesn't seem that PP has done any playtesting themselves to see if the game plays well with those rules removed.
You know what WOULD make the game more accessible? Starter sets that are less than $100. All you need to get a feel for Warmachine is a battlegroup and two units (probably a solo and a squad). That's what, 10 models? Yea, that won't be a full scale 75pt competitive game, but it doesn't have be. All it needs to be is a "starter set", something to get your feet wet. Instead, PP gives you 20+ unpainted models for an absurd $200 pricetag. $200 is a lot of money. That won't bring in anyone new.
All of that plus the poor quality of the prints, with the uncured (and potentially toxic) resin on most of the models and the supports not being properly clipped... it's honestly sad. I don't see MK4 being anything but DOA.
I quit warmachine a year or two ago after I realized that I was unable to teach a casual the rules of the game and that, basically, without a in-depth and exhaustive knowledge of the nuance of the rules, nonetheless factions, the chances of you getting tabled top of first round and getting that mega negative player experience was gonna be a huge problem.
It sucked because I really liked the people in the meta. But I also didn't want to keep ruining their fun by my bitching so I removed myself from the problem
Haha thanks Kek! I was worried I was being too negative, but really, all the coverage was just about the 3D printing. That’s like the click bait thing for sure, but I think this weird subtext supersedes the printing in importance for me
Thanks Jeremy! I feel you on teaching new players these complex rule systems. Infinity isn’t much nicer to new players. It’s saving grace is it’s not as combo-heavy as Malifaux and Warmachine
I think "Don't Panic" was suppouse to be reference to Douglas Adams as opening joke. But i agree that it did not went well :P
This is an odd series of events. It’s just bizarre, and feels like a weird Hail Mary pass when the game’s not on the line. I don’t know how to explain it, but it feels off. It feels like when a hacker steals a Twitter account and they start spamming it with weird nonsense, it’s like… what even is this?
But Dek, new editions exist because the time comes when everyone who would have bought the old edition has bought the old edition.
LOL planned obsolescence!
It's really easy to talk about what PP is doing wrong, even after all these months after the announcement; its not gotten any easier to talk about what they are doing right.
So, to be honest, the only thing that seems sus to me, is this video, which probably should have been named, "I don't like Privateer Press". It's very telling that it's conveying they want PP to go after GW... sooo why shouldn't corvus belli or were go after GW marketshare? Because, let's be real, ALL games should have the goal of making games that their fans like, and not basing their business on, "Let's take our small business and go after a publicly traded corporation!!" No... don't do that. Just make a game people want to play. That should be their main goal.
It's very obvious that the creator just doesn't like warmachine or PP, or what have you.
They made a teaser video, because they were making a huge announcement at gencon...the literal BIGGEST gaming con, in the world... And there, they Explained the whole of what's going on with MKIV.
Other than that, I don't know what kind of screen this guy is looking at the PP stuff with, but the pictures look good... it's not a freekin' art exhibit, but they look classically like standard issue production photos. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them.
Other than that, There's multiple videos out there that I guess this creator either chose not to watch or didn't want to mention, of the boxes being opened, and the models looking good. They aren't posable GW models with plastic level detail, because that's not the material they are working with, so nobody expects that.
All in all, this just sounds like a hatchet job, maybe this guy got burned by PP in the past, maybe he has a financial stake or game interest in Corvus Belli; I don't know, but this isn't a very honest ideo. Next time, just say "I don't like warmachine/pp/PP's models, and I don't want to support them." Honesty is always more appreciated than claims of fairness when there obviously isn't any. It's very obvious that this guy does not play warmachine.. as far back as I looked , there's no warmachine/gordes/pp/etc videos. I don't know why someone would feel they need to badmouth a game they don't play, but maybe next time, he should just say, "I play infinity, and thus I want more people playing it than Warmachine, so I have lots of people to play with."
Thanks Septymes K!
I don’t dislike PP. I think the marketing of the launch is insensitive or even tone dead to current consumers and the industry. I have said in many comments that I’m sure the game is good and the models are good.
If you look at my body of work, you’ll see this is my only salty video except for my first (more than 60 videos ago).
If you like the game and the models, more power to you. I’m sure they’re great.
I hope you’re getting paid to shill for PP.
PP isn’t being hated on, but it deserves to. They’ve spent the last two years pushing their current range of WM product WHILE ALSO now admitting the entire time knowing they were going to de-platform those minis from the new edition (and no, “get you by” rules that will take at least 1.5 years to get doesn’t count as “still legal”).
PP openly defrauded its loyal customers for two years to make sales off minis it knew would never be legal in the new edition. It’s admitted this too. They’ve worked on this for years and knew from the start that the legacy range was being binned.
Furthermore, the one bright spot at PP - besides maybe MonPoc - has been the P3 paint range. Yet they so under support it that the THREE local stores that were still selling it long after they stopped carrying PP models have also stopped selling their paints because they can’t get them in stock and because PP dragged them on about the new paints they teased and promised before finally admitting they’ve been backburnered and are likely to never reappear.
Meanwhile, I can still get Foundry and Coat D’Arms paints - WHO ARE MADE BY THE SAME MANUFACTURER (HMG Paints) and can even get Nostalgia 88 paints from a tiny manufacturer in Cyprus. All the while PP openly lies that it’s pandemic and other issues that’s disrupted their paint supplier - more likely it’s them not being able to pay their paint supplier.
At this point, the only reason to support PP is because your rage at GW is so crippling that you need PP as a crutch. Praising PP for not being GW is like praising syphilis for not being AIDS.
@@MasterShake9000 I quit playing any PP games about 6 years ago, but I still remember that the photos, the videos, etc, were all the same way they used to do releases.
But, as you obviously have a bone to pick with them alongside this video's creator, that actually proves my point. If 2 people have the same opinion and one openly states they're actively against the company, then that just solidifies something being a hatchet job. I appreciate the support.
Just found your video many months later. I hope in the long run that Warmachine truly returns since I've played Warmachine since early MK2. I love MK3 and I get why from the model count why they need to do some changing up but I feel like in some way they are going about it wrong and folks are not as impressed as they should. Myself included. I feel like they should have more art (they have countless art from the past). Something physical to hold. I get why they want to go digital but some physical books would be nice along with painted models. Some flash. It feels half-hearted. I hope that changes.
Haha thanks Slash! Since I published this video, I feel a little bad about slamming WMH 🥲. I maintain my stance though
@@CornerCase You said some hard truths that many of us can see. I loved that PP had kept all their minis relevant till now. Its what made it feel better over Warhammer that our army was still . . . valued. I wish they had maintained both MK3 with doing MK4. MK3 has good solid rules. MK4 is extremely similar to MK3 in rules with smaller units and rules being more streamlined. But with as little flash/excitement as they have provided, people don't seem as excited. Heck I saw more excitement from new players last year in MK3. I think personally PP should have spent some time maintaining some of their games like Widowers Wood but also wait six months or more till they had more product to show, more armies as well as functioning War room that worked on day one.
I get that PP needs new players and something to rally players in general but I feel like it could have been done a lot better. I hope WMH stays but its going to be rough road
I wonder how you feel a year later into this.
Personally i feel Warmachine needs more content creators and more interesting game plays / Learn to Plays
what you completely miss is that blog post was intended as a message to the current players not as a launch announcement to the world. Its broken down for the people who are about to lose access to their models. It's not a sales pitch to people like you who dont play the game.
Totally Sus. It's a half-assed approach at trying to resurrect the dead.
Feels bad man
MK2, close to 40k back in the days? I started wargaming in 2008 with 40k at the beginning of 5th ed in Montreal, a city with one of the biggest and most competitive warmachine community across the globe. This game was never even a speck of being close to being on the same scale as 40k. Their product was always niche even back in the day, especially by being fully metal until starting to produce lackluster plastic with the cinerators and going slowly from there. Europe still dosen't have a good distribution channel for the totality of the range while back in 08 boxes of GW were already translated in a bunch of language and distributed from the americas to asia.
Your criticism of their marketing is valid. However, I don't see it as especially "sus". If you follow Ppress, you know that they are straight up incompetent in that domain. For reference, just watch the Riot Quest announcement. It's the literal definition of anti-marketing.
Economies of scale are a bitch. Unfortunately GW has it in spades.
GW has coverage over all kinds of war games Large Scale, Skirmish, Adventure, RPGs, Small Scale, Competitive, Narrative. Exct. Plus hobby supplies
STL?
Time has passed. You were wrong. The New edition is much better rules wise. They keep releasing legacy armies and New factions that are also cool. In the meantime distribution improves. Maybe you should do a follow up video ;)
not really. game is still died and stores are not stoking.