ALL-NEW Specialized Epic vs Epic EVO Review | Brainless, But All The Better For It!
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- Specialized Epic Review: flowmountainbike.com/tests/20...
Specialized Epic EVO Review: flowmountainbike.com/tests/20...
RockShox Flight Attendant Review: flowmountainbike.com/tests/ro...
For 2024, Specialized is introducing the 8th generation of the Epic and Epic EVO. There are some big changes with both models receiving all-new carbon frames and boosted suspension. The Epic evolves into a dedicated 120mm travel race bike platform, while the Epic EVO has been pumped up even more to create a lightweight but highly capable trail ripper.
We've been riding both bikes over the past couple of months, which culminated in a few days of back-to-back testing on the flowy singletrack at the Buxton MTB Park in Victoria's High Country. In this video we'll be discussing what's new with the Epic and Epic EVO, the differences between them, and whether these stand as the best XC bikes we've tested.
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Specialized Epic 8 Video Review Contents
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - Specialized Epic 8 Overview
2:07 - Specialized Epic 8 EVO Overview
2:58 - SWAT Storage
3:25 - RockShox Flight Attendant XC
4:21 - Specialized Epic Pricing & Specs
5:36 - Specialized Epic Weight
6:02 - The Buxton MTB Park
6:41 - Specialized Epic Strengths
10:14 - RockShox Flight Attendant Performance
12:03 - Specialized Epic Downsides
13:22 - Specialized Epic EVO Strengths
16:29 - Specialized Epic EVO Downsides
18:02 - Specialized Epic vs Epic EVO
19:52 - Flow's Verdict
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I know this presenter's work - ten seconds in and its already the the thumbs up, I can't wait.
Great work from Flow as always, and many thanks.
I own the 2022 carbon Epic Expert. Now I now what I am missing by using this 'old' stuff.
How is the 2022 expert, would you recommend it?
Fantastic in-depth review! Damn these bikes sound fun!!
As always the best reviews!!! Keep it up!
Thanks very much mate, appreciate the feedback and we'll keep the reviews coming! [Wil]
That epic evo looks like a great trailbike
previous model evo is a great trail bike - new is one probably even better
Thanks Will and Jo - great review!
Cheers for the feedback Brendan!
Excellent review, very comprehensive, well done!!
Thanks mate!
excuse me while I mortgage my house to buy a new bike
Just what i was thinking. I gotta have one 😮😮😢
Don't be silly - sell a kidney.
Are you experienced ?
@@Andy-co6pn selling kidneys, yes? Refinancing my house to bike a buy, no.
@@erikklumpp3464 Jimi Hendrix joke wasted on you 🤣
Great review as always! With the increased anti-squat, does that adversely affect technical climbing traction? Thanks.
Thanks mate! That was my thoughts too but it hasn't been the case. The increase is fairly mild - Specialized has only lifted anti-squat from around 90% to 100% at sag, and from there it drops off pretty steadily through the rest of the travel.
For a point of reference, the Orbea Oiz and Canyon Lux Trail are more like 115% at sag, and they stay quite high deeper into the trail. That provides a very firm and obvious platform while pedalling on smoother trails, but traction and comfort can suffer on rockier climbs.
I found the Epic's suspension firmed up enough to help stabilise most pedalling inputs without stuttering the shock on rougher climbs. It's nicely balanced with the new shock tune, works very well. [Wil]
head tube angle is almost the same as my trail bike from 2020. That's crazy
My friend has a specialized epic from 2015 and his head tube angle is 69° 😢 things are getting crazy, bikes are becoming more aggressive each year.
great review - detailed and informative. Love the inclusion of downsides. Would have loved to hear more from Jo. Seemed like she didn't get to share much of her opinion
Glad you enjoyed the review!
This was Jo's first time being involved in a project like this, and we were stoked to have her on board! She's been helping out with testing the two Epics, providing some excellent feedback along the way that has shaped the reviews, and she also joined us for the final shoot in Buxton. While she is super busy with her MTB skills coaching business and a young family, we hope we can get her involved in more reviews and videos in the future.
I do think it's worth acknowledging that not everyone feels totally comfortable being on camera - I'm lucky to have been a professional bike tester for well over a decade, and in that time I've garnered a lot of experience (and mistakes!) in producing reviews and presenting to camera. It still isn't easy, but I'm pretty comfortable making a fool of myself given I do it on a regular basis 😂
Jo wasn't particularly keen to be on camera in the first place, and we didn't want to push her into doing anything she wasn't comfortable with. We came up with a few ideas and she ended up going with what you see in the final video. We all liked the end result, so I'm sorry if it came across the way you described as that certainly wasn't the intention.
I'm really glad Jo got involved, and I think it speaks volumes to her experience and professionalism that she came across so comfortable on camera. I reckon she would do a fantastic job taking a more senior role in presenting videos, so hopefully we can provide her with more experience at Flow moving forward.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback!
[Wil]
Very cool. Hopefully, the tech trickles down to bikes most mere mortals can afford.
Hi Will, thanks for the great review. How does the epic compare to the Pivot Mach 4 SL V3?
Great question Leon! I was only able to ride the Mach 4 SL at the launch last year - we've been trying to get one in for testing locally so we can follow up with an in-depth review and provide a more detailed comparison with the likes of the Specialized Epic 8.
Based on specs alone however, there are some notable differences between the Mach 4 SL and the Epic 8.
As well as getting in-frame storage on the Epic, it also comes with guided internal cable routing and a threaded BB. Additionally, the single-pivot suspension design is simpler and lighter compared to the Mach 4 SL's dw-link platform.
Geometry is pretty similar if we're comparing the Epic 8 with the 120/115mm travel version of the Mach 4 SL. However, the reach is longer (450mm vs 437mm, size Medium) and the seat angle is steeper (75.5 vs 74.7).
Pivot also specs the 120/115mm travel version of the Mach 4 SL with a slightly more trail-oriented build kit in terms of the tyres (Maxxis Rekon 2.4in tyres) and the shock (Float), which kind of puts it in between the Epic race bike and the Epic EVO.
From my time riding the Mach 4 SL at the launch, I found it to be a really capable XC bike with excellent suspension. The dw-link platform is incredibly efficient and very good at delivering grip on technical climbs, and it's also more neutral under braking.
Hopefully we can get one in for a proper long-term test so we can include it in our Best XC Bikes battle: flowmountainbike.com/tests/best-xc-bikes-cross-country/
Apologies I can't give you a more detailed comparison - let me know if you've got any specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them!
[Wil]
Thanks for such a good review!
How do you compare Orbea Oiz to the new Specialized Epic 8?
Thanks mate, appreciate the feedback!
The Oiz is a great point of comparison with the new Epic 8, since both are modern XC bikes with 120mm of travel and a 3-position suspension system.
Ignoring the S-Works model for the moment, each Epic 8 comes with a TwistLoc remote, which allows for an under-the-bar dropper lever. The Oiz uses the Squidlock remote, which I really like in terms of ergonomics, though it features an over-the-bar vertical dropper lever instead. Some riders may prefer one over the other.
On the trail I found the Epic 8 to be plusher and more neutral in its suspension feel. The Oiz is snappier under pedalling, but not quite as smooth to ride when the trail is very rocky and technical. I would give the Epic 8 the nod when it comes to big-hit performance as well, not just because of its supportive suspension but also because of its geometry. I also like the 2-position flip chip, which means you can make it a lot lower and slacker than the Oiz.
Both are excellent climbers. In the middle suspension mode, the Oiz only firms up its shock and leaves the fork open, which is beneficial from a dynamic geometry perspective. I would say it feels slightly more aggressive when you are really laying down the power on a smooth climb. However, if the trail is quite technical and rough, I found the Epic 8 to offer more grip and a smoother feel. To me the chassis and suspension feels more compliant than the Oiz.
Lastly, the Epic 8 frame is quite a bit easier to work on. It uses conventional cable routing with internal guide tubes, and you can run whatever stem you like. The SWAT storage is also a brilliant feature for those who like to carry their spares and tools on the bike rather than on their body or strapped to the frame.
One downside of the Epic 8 is that the entry-level price is quite high at $7,500 AUD. There is no word on whether we will see an alloy version, but I think that'd be a cool addition to the range to make it more accessible. Orbea does offer the Oiz in a lot of different models including alloy frames, which means it is quite a bit cheaper.
Hope that helps mate, though just sing out if you've got any other questions!
[Wil]
How does braking affect suspension on the single pivot platform? I'm really intrigued by the new evo, but coming from a long history of dw link platform bike. Obvs i need to ride one, but interested in opinions.
Hey Will, excellent as always review! What size S works were you riding?
and do you find the bikes to be used same size as last years Epic/Epic Evo? As in, Medium last year, also medium this year or has new Geo changed that?
Thanks mate! I was riding a Medium in both the Epic and Epic EVO. I found the fit to be great for my 175cm height, which was also the case with the previous generation bike.
The reach is longer on the new bikes, but the seat tube angle has also gotten steeper which means the effective top tube length (how the cockpit feels when you're seated) is much the same.
Hope that helps, but let me know if you've got any other questions!
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcams thanks mate!
Loved the sleek athletic design of previous Epics. And glad I did not wait for Epic 8 and bought Epic WC last year.
Agreed, the Epic WC is such a slick frame design! That bike isn't going anywhere - it'll remain as the short travel sprinter and will sit alongside the Epic and Epic EVO. [Wil]
Brilliant review as always. With the Epic Evo now so close to the Stumpjumper I wonder if Specialized will simplify their lineup and split the difference between the standard model Stumpy and the Stumpy Evo with one model when refreshed (surely due soon).
Cheers mate, glad you liked the review!
That's a good shout on the Stumpjumper - I wouldn't be surprised if the two models morphed into the one bike with 150/140mm travel, which would make for a logical step up from the new Epic EVO.
The Enduro is also due for a refresh, so perhaps that bike will go 170/160mm? Guess we'll have to wait and see!
[Wil]
I believe the current stumpjumper/ evo will morph into one standard travel stumpjumper. And the epic evo fills the current stumpy range, more or less.
Hi Wil, Great review. Is the new Epic evo comparable to the Stumpjumper ST 2019?
Thanks mate!
In terms of travel, the new Epic EVO shares the same 130/120mm as the old 29er version of the Stumpy ST. In terms of ride quality it's very different - it's a lot lighter, more sprightly at the pedals and the geo has changed quite a bit too.
I really loved the Stumpy ST, that was a great trail bike! I don't think it ended up being as popular as it should have been, but given it used the same frame as the bigger travel Stumpjumper at the time, I reckon a lot of folks just went for the extra travel.
[Wil]
Thank you so much, that helps.
Got the base level Epic Evo prev gen on discount for AUD 4900 and pimped with parts i already got, like a SID Ultimate. Love it, but would never spend 10k on a bike, let alone 24k
Thanks for a great review Will and the simplified explanation of the new Epic lineup. Kind of a lot of models to be honest. Is Specialized setting themselves up for another overstock?
Glad you enjoyed the review mate!
With three Epic models (Epic World Cup, Epic and Epic EVO), I imagine there will be some confusion amongst buyers about the differences between them and choosing the right one. Hopefully our reviews help!
As for overstock I have no idea, but it's worth pointing out that there are only currently 9 models across those three Epic platforms.
For a point of comparison, Scott has 11 models across its Spark range, and Trek has 13 models across its Supercaliber/Top Fuel range.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more brands narrowing their offerings moving forward to reduce the number of SKUs and simplify things in terms of production and warehousing, even if it means less choice for the consumer.
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcams
Yes, unfortunately the big bike manufacturers remind of the GM of past, with a zillion different models for the same car and with the bike manufacturers stretching themselves thin with inventory overstocks of parts, wheels, ect....they need to be more like the Honda of old with just a few really good models and no nuance filling "In between the lines" lineup.
Awesome review Wil!, How would you compare the new epic evo to the new canyon Neuron?
That's an interesting comparison! The Neuron has 10mm more travel at each end but the overall geometry and build kit isn't dissimilar really.
I personally found the Neuron to be quite stiff and unforgiving on rockier terrain. It's great on flowier trails and it's a really efficient bike to ride, but the carbon frame isn't super compliant and the suspension tune is on the firmer side. Keen to try out the alloy version and I believe we have one on order with Canyon for the near future.
In comparison, the Epic EVO feels livelier and more supple despite having less travel. Pedal efficiency isn't quite as sharp in the open position, but rear wheel traction is better on technical climbs. I also like the SWAT storage and practical cable routing compared to the Neuron.
Hope that helps, but just yell out if you've got any other questions!
[Wil]
Great review Wil 👏. As a metal aficionado 🤘 do you think that Specialized will release an alloy version of the Evo with comparable spec to Comp carbon? Or would that push weight to same levels as Stumpjumper alloy and render the bike a bit pointless in xc category?
Thanks Sandy! I'm very curious about an alloy model - Specialized never did an alloy version of the last Epic or Epic EVO, but I definitely think there's room for it to help lower the price of entry. And given the form Specialized has with the Chisel and other high-end alloy frames like the Allez, surely it could be made pretty lightweight too.
Regarding the Stumpjumper, I imagine we'll see some changes in that space in the next year. With the Epic EVO stepping up to 130/120mm travel, it wouldn't really make sense for the Stumpy to remain at 140/130mm. Maybe Specialized will merge the Stumpy and Stumpy EVO into the one bike with 150/140mm travel?
Guess we'll have to wait and see!
[Wil]
That SWorks shock is right on the water bottle!
It's very close! Thankfully there's no contact between the two, even while riding. [Wil]
Absolute gold standard review as always, especially for XC / trail bikes. You are always (rightfully) pretty clinical about pricing and high end bikes in general but your sheer giddy enthusiasm for the S-Works speaks volumes for how good it must be!
Does the Epic Evo essentially render the current Stumpjumper obsolete?
Thanks mate, appreciate you watching and for the feedback!
Giddy excitement is right about the S-Works Epic - I'm a lucky boy to be able to ride such a high-end bike, which is essentially the same as what the World Cup athletes are on. Ridiculous price aside, it's an astonishing bike that made me smile every time I rode it!
As for the Epic EVO, I think it definitely steps on the toes of the current 140/130mm travel Stumpjumper. The geo is similar, but the Epic EVO is lighter and livelier.
With that in mind, I suspect there'll be some changes coming for the new Stumpjumper. A few folks have suggested the Stumpy and Stumpy EVO might turn into the one bike with 150/140mm travel, and I reckon that would make sense. That would see the new Stumpy compete directly with the latest Trek Fuel EX, Canyon Spectral and Merida One-Forty, all of which are built around a 150/140mm travel platform.
[Wil]
I'd like to trade my 2020 Epic Evo Expert for the new 2024 Epic Expert, but the cost is now nearly double what I paid in 2020 (up.from 6k to 11.5k) So I think I'll hang onto what I have for now.
Great review as always, too 👍
Geo #'s are a lot like the 2019 Trance ??
The Epic 8 makes my 2019 Epic w brain look simple and reliable.
Great review as always! If I can ask - what do you think about sizing of new Epics with changed geometry, longer reach etc? I am 5’10 and I was in between M and L on last year Epic Evo (leaning more towards L). Now I am looking at non-Evo Epic, and I am still not sure about size? Should I go M or L with Epic 8 at 5’10? Could you advise please. Thank you
Hmm, tricky to say without you being able to swing a leg over the new bike - it'll definitely help if you can find a Medium or Large to try out.
I stand at 175cm (5'8" I think?) and found the Medium size to be spot-on. Because the Epic is the race bike, it does get a slightly longer stem and a negative rise compared to the EVO. This creates a lower and more stretched out riding position that is great for racing.
Specialized has a sizing calculator on its website - have you tried plugging your dimensions into that to see what it recommends?
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcams thank you for instant reply :)
I got in touch with few dealers as I want to try Medium and Large Epics. The thing with Spec size tool is that if I enter my height lower by only 2 cm I get recommended size M. I have tried previous generation Evo few months ago, and I felt a little bit cramped on M size, and L on the other hand was a little bit too long I think. Unfortunately I have not tried regular Epic then. I wonder if new Epics get the same feel with new geometry, reach etc. I will try them on definitely before purchase.
Thank you Wil for your help and your reviews.
Go for the L
@@IIISentorIII think I am going to as M is for 165-178 cm riders according to Spec recommendations
Pissed me off how 5'9" /5'10" is always between sizes. It's average height, so should be bang in the middle of a size, not at the extremity of M or L.
Will
Great review! I just bought a 23’ leftover Epic EVO Pro here in the States for just under $6K out the door(Almost $9K retail) and was just wondering how this new Epic compares to the old?
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the review!
Regarding the new Epic compared to the old Epic EVO; there are the obvious changes like the 10mm increase in rear travel, the ability to take a 130mm travel fork and the SWAT storage. As mentioned in the video, the suspension kinematics have been updated too - the new Epic has a bit more anti-squat (100% vs 90% at sag), and it's for sure a snappier pedaller. The addition of the 3-position custom shock and fork damper gives it more pep again with that Magic Middle mode, which I think is spot-on for racing. However, it does come with a remote lockout and two extra cables, whereas your current Epic EVO Pro skips it for a much cleaner cockpit.
I think for any existing EVO owners that were doing a lot more racing and have been finding themselves wishing for remote-lockable suspension, the new Epic makes a lot of sense. But if you're not fussed about the remote and you're happy with the current level of pedalling efficiency, the old Epic EVO is still a killer bike.
There's quite a bit more detail in the full review if you fancy checking it out; flowmountainbike.com/tests/2024-specialized-epic-8-review-s-works/
Hope that helps, but just yell out if you've got any other questions mate!
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcamsam I gonna be right if I say that new Epic 8 replaced previous generation Epic Evo, and new Evo 8 is entering Stumpjumper’s territority? I am looking to buy Epic. If I had to choose gen 7 Epic vs gen 7 Epic Evo then I would definitely choose Evo. But now I am not sure, and I think Epic will suit me better. What is your opinion? Many thanks
Yep, you're spot on there mate! The new Epic 8 is really the spiritual successor to the previous Epic EVO.
It's certainly a bit confusing now that there are three full suspension Epic models. Here's how we explained them in the review;
Epic World Cup - 110/75mm travel, smooth course XC race bike
Epic - 120/120mm travel, all-round XC & marathon race bike
Epic EVO - 130/120mm travel, XC and trail riding
If you're curious about the new Epic, I've put a lot more info in the full review including a detailed look at the geometry, sizing, suspension setup and component performance. There's also a comparison between the new Epic 8 and Scott Spark RC; flowmountainbike.com/tests/2024-specialized-epic-8-review-s-works/
Hope that gives you everything you need!
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcams many thanks Wil. I have of course read you review on Flow website. Great stuff, many thanks
I owned a 23 Sworks epic evo . I over-shocked it with a fox float x was around 123mm of suspension in the rear and a fox 34 grip 2 at 130. Bike was amazing!
Astonishingly high price indeed!
hello will i have one question is superior in funcionality and fast to live valv??
Hi Luis!
Have you had a chance to check out our review on the new Flight Attendant XC system?
If not, here's the link; flowmountainbike.com/tests/rockshox-flight-attendant-xc-review-2024-sid-sidluxe/
There's a lot of detail in there about how it works, the adjustability, and how it compares to Live Valve, which I reckon you'll find pretty interesting!
In short, the two systems work very differently, and each one has its pros and cons. In terms of outright speed, Live Valve is still faster in terms of its ability to open when you contact a bump. However, because Flight Attendant is performing a different task and switching between three settings (instead of two), it still feels very seamless on the trail.
[Wil]
Can Flight Attendant be reset? Say if someone buys a second hand Epic 8? Can the data be deleted so as to start with the new rider?
Certainly can! It's pretty easy to do a recalibration, and you can also manually change the power numbers for each of the Effort Zones if needed.
There's quite a bit more info in the full review right here: flowmountainbike.com/tests/rockshox-flight-attendant-xc-review-2024-sid-sidluxe/
[Wil]
Can the epic 8 go from 120 fork to 130 fork? I know the epic Evo can go from 130 to 120. Thanks
Yep, certainly can! The frame is the same between the Epic 8 and the Epic EVO, so you could change between a 120-130mm travel fork on either bike. [Wil]
When I saw the thumbnail, I thought, "this looks like my old Santa Cruz superlight" from 20 or so years ago.
Time to go to specsavers 😂
Great review, for such a lousy upgrade! They got the old Evo, added a SWAT door and renamed it to EVO. Even lousier was the evo upgrade by just changing the +10mm fork! The biggest change is the price
geometry between sizes makes a bit more sense on this version, but yeah, not the biggest overhaul. M on the epic 8 sits inbetween the M and L Epic Evo 2020-2023. M on the Epic Evo was way too short IMO.
looks like in many of the clips the fork is bottomed out?
Thankfully we've had no bottom-out events so far with either the SID fork on the Epic or the 34 fork on the EVO. Definitely using plenty of travel on bigger hits as you'd see in the video, but no bottom-outs as of yet! [Wil]
What no Shimano? :(
Hey guys!!! Check out the new bikes from Specialized that basically no one will be able to afford! 😆
Great review Will. Love the Australian angle. Just some feedback - let Jo talk … I value your opinion but also wanted to hear her opinion as a racer. It was a bit awkward.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback!
Someone else had mentioned this so I've copied the response to help address your point;
This was Jo's first time being involved in a project like this, and we were stoked to have her on board! She's been helping out with testing the two Epics, providing some excellent feedback along the way that has shaped the reviews, and she also joined us for the final shoot in Buxton. While she is super busy with her MTB skills coaching business and a young family, we hope we can get her involved in more reviews and videos in the future.
I do think it's worth acknowledging that not everyone feels totally comfortable being on camera - I'm lucky to have been a professional bike tester for well over a decade, and in that time I've garnered a lot of experience (and mistakes!) in producing reviews and presenting to camera. It still isn't easy, but I'm pretty comfortable making a fool of myself given I do it on a regular basis 😂
Jo wasn't particularly keen to be on camera in the first place, and we didn't want to push her into doing anything she wasn't happy with. We came up with a few ideas and she ended up going with what you see in the final video. We all liked the end result, so I'm sorry if it came across the way you described as that certainly wasn't the intention.
I'm really glad Jo got involved, and I think it speaks volumes to her experience and professionalism that she came across so comfortable on camera. I reckon she would do a fantastic job taking a more senior role in presenting videos, so hopefully we can provide her with more experience at Flow moving forward.
Apologies for the long response, but hopefully that helps provide some backstory on how we ended up with that particular review format.
Thanks again for the feedback, which helps us to keep working on improving our reviews and videos moving forward!
[Wil]
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I appreciate it. That all makes sense so all good. Maybe you can give her the feedback that we liked her contribution and want more. Cheers
@@awilkinson7- You bet we will! Thanks again for the feedback mate! [Wil]
You had a former pro rider but we didn't get their opinion of the bike. Now that would have been interesting.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback!
Someone else had mentioned this so I've copied the response to help address your point;
This was Jo's first time being involved in a project like this, and we were stoked to have her on board! She's been helping out with testing the two Epics, providing some excellent feedback along the way that has shaped the reviews, and she also joined us for the final shoot in Buxton. While she is super busy with her MTB skills coaching business and a young family, we hope we can get her involved in more reviews and videos in the future.
I do think it's worth acknowledging that not everyone feels totally comfortable being on camera - I'm lucky to have been a professional bike tester for well over a decade, and in that time I've garnered a lot of experience (and mistakes!) in producing reviews and presenting to camera. It still isn't easy, but I'm pretty comfortable making a fool of myself given I do it on a regular basis 😂
Jo wasn't particularly keen to be on camera in the first place, and we didn't want to push her into doing anything she wasn't happy with. We came up with a few ideas and she ended up going with what you see in the final video. We all liked the end result, so I'm sorry if it came across the way you described as that certainly wasn't the intention.
I'm really glad Jo got involved, and I think it speaks volumes to her experience and professionalism that she came across so comfortable on camera. I reckon she would do a fantastic job taking a more senior role in presenting videos, so hopefully we can provide her with more experience at Flow moving forward.
Apologies for the long response, but hopefully that helps provide some backstory on how we ended up with that particular review format.
Thanks again for the feedback, which helps us to keep working on improving our reviews and videos moving forward!
[Wil]
compare this to the scott spark rc!
@flowmountainbike What is the point of having a former world cup xc racer as a part of the review if she does not get to actually be a part of the review and contribute with her hot takes? I really liked the review and the depth of info / nuanced feedback, but it also kinda felt like you were mansplaining to a mtb expert what the reviewer / relatively more inexperienced bike rider was feeling without asking her what she experienced - so kinda weird.
Hi there! Thanks for watching the video and for the feedback, we really appreciate it!
This was Jo's first time being involved in a project like this, and we were stoked to have her on board! She's been helping out with testing the two Epics, providing some excellent feedback along the way that has shaped the reviews, and she also joined us for the final shoot in Buxton. While she is super busy with her MTB skills coaching business and a young family, we hope we can get her involved in more reviews and videos in the future.
I do think it's worth acknowledging that not everyone feels totally comfortable being on camera - I'm lucky to have been a professional bike tester for well over a decade, and in that time I've garnered a lot of experience (and mistakes!) in producing reviews and presenting to camera. It still isn't easy, but I'm pretty comfortable making a fool of myself given I do it on a regular basis 😂
Jo wasn't particularly keen to be on camera in the first place, and we didn't want to push her into doing anything she wasn't happy with. We came up with a few ideas and she ended up going with what you see in the final video. We all liked the end result, so I'm sorry if it came across the way you described as that certainly wasn't the intention.
I'm really glad Jo got involved, and I think it speaks volumes to her experience and professionalism that she came across so comfortable on camera. I reckon she would do a fantastic job taking a more senior role in presenting videos, so hopefully we can provide her with more experience at Flow moving forward.
Apologies for the long response, but hopefully that helps provide some backstory on how we ended up with that particular review format.
And thanks again for the feedback, which helps us to keep striving to improve our reviews and videos moving forward!
[Wil]
Very comprehensive review, but I would have liked to have heard Jo's opinion. I don't think it makes sense to invite a great rider along to do a co-review and then script her to ask canned questions only.
Glad you enjoyed the review!
Someone else had mentioned this so I've copied the response to help address your point;
This was Jo's first time being involved in a project like this, and we were stoked to have her on board! She's been helping out with testing the two Epics, providing some excellent feedback along the way that has shaped the reviews, and she also joined us for the final shoot in Buxton. While she is super busy with her MTB skills coaching business and a young family, we hope we can get her involved in more reviews and videos in the future.
I do think it's worth acknowledging that not everyone feels totally comfortable being on camera - I'm lucky to have been a professional bike tester for well over a decade, and in that time I've garnered a lot of experience (and mistakes!) in producing reviews and presenting to camera. It still isn't easy, but I'm pretty comfortable making a fool of myself given I do it on a regular basis 😂
Jo wasn't particularly keen to be on camera in the first place, and we didn't want to push her into doing anything she wasn't happy with. We came up with a few ideas and she ended up going with what you see in the final video. We all liked the end result, so I'm sorry if it came across the way you described as that certainly wasn't the intention.
I'm really glad Jo got involved, and I think it speaks volumes to her experience and professionalism that she came across so comfortable on camera. I reckon she would do a fantastic job taking a more senior role in presenting videos, so hopefully we can provide her with more experience at Flow moving forward.
Apologies for the long response, but hopefully that helps provide some backstory on how we ended up with that particular review format.
Thanks again for the feedback, which helps us to keep working on improving our reviews and videos moving forward!
[Wil]
I still prefer the spark !
Shame the epic evo 8 only comes in purple
If they dropped the 20 batteries on that thing, it'd save at least 10lbs.
Strangely if you buy the sworks frame it doesnt have the fancy shock and fork. It has the lighter versions.
@@johndef5075 I'm pretty sure they mentioned multiple times sworks comes with flight attendant suspension because the frame doesn't come with internal wiring ports for a dropper, shifting, or suspension lockout cables. Everything is wireless besides brakes.
Nice review! For sure they will ride well but 24K for a bike.🙄
Holy flock.
These are the pinnacle of XC bikes. Price isn’t important. Much like most folks can’t buy a top of the line Porsche or Mercedes. If you want one pick up a lightly used model in 2-3 years and pay 1/2 or less. Let someone else pay the depreciation.
I don't see how anyone would take the sram transmission over mechanical sram or XT/XTR. Mechanical is lighter, shifts faster, less expensive, and requires no charging. But each to their own.
Specialised are on crack! $24k for a dual susp xc bike is criminal. I paid $11,000 For a brand new at the time 2018 Sworks enduro.Sure it didn't have axs but come on how on earth has top line S-Works bikes more than doubled in price in the last 6 years?!?!?
Cry harder!
@@pe3117 The only reason the prices creep up is because mindless drones like you keep lapping up all the BS and buying them regardless.
@@pe3117 brain stronger, these new models are already on sale in some countries at 50% discount, for some SKU's. Direct from Spesh.
nice review ,nice bike! but cant pay 14k for Asia carbon printers ....sorry! i prefer 1000cc yamaha r1 with 220 hp and titanium exhaust system
WHERE DO YOU THINK 95% OF BIKES ARE MADE, but Asia? I agree prices are silly but stop with the Asia = Bad, they produce the majority of the world's bikes including virtually every high-tech bike on the market.
Um so if the frame is the same i get how the evo has a more slack head angle because of the higher fork with 130 travel. But that same fork will also make the seat tube angle more slack also, not make it steeper. Sorry, don’t know why Spec is providing such numbers; the frame is fixed, you cant make one angle slack and the other steep, no matter what their marketing department says 😂
That's correct - both the head angle and seat angle get slacker by 0.5-degrees on the Epic EVO compared to the regular Epic.
For the seat angle, Specialized lists 75.5-degrees for the regular Epic and 75.1-degrees on the Epic EVO.
Hope that info helps!
[Wil]
It’s called a BC40 ha!! About time they’ve ditched the Brain 😂
Drool, but unfortunately so over-priced in South Africa. Where would you look for the best bang-for-buck alternative to the Epic in a XT/GX level spec with modern geometry and no-fuss components?
Have you seen our comparative review on the top XC bikes we've tested?
flowmountainbike.com/tests/best-xc-bikes-cross-country/
From that list, I reckon the Giant Anthem would potentially fit the bill. Not sure what pricing is like in SA though?
[Wil]
Queue up the jealous Walmart shoppers. Middle aged professional men have discretionary income for their hobbies and passions.
Imagine chipping a chainring tooth off on a rock first ride 🤑
LMAO just when I thought bikes couldn’t get any more ridiculously priced,
In the video at czcams.com/video/9cSm9ZxqRzs/video.htmlsi=ZgmZEC88_3dXD5s7&t=244 that front fork is bobbing a ton. Was flight attendant disabled or something? Seems like it should have detected that the rider was standing and pedaling hard and locked out.
Hi there!
Good spotting - that's because I have the fork lockout disabled so it only switches between Open and Pedal and never automatically locks out on the trail. The shock is still able to flip between Open/Pedal/Lock settings.
There's a discussion about this at 11:15 in the video.
I do have the Override mode set to Lock, which means that with a press of the button on the AXS controller, both the fork and shock will lock out.
Have you had a chance to check out our Flight Attendant review? I went into A LOT more detail in there, which I reckon you might find interesting;
flowmountainbike.com/tests/rockshox-flight-attendant-xc-review-2024-sid-sidluxe/
Hope that helps explain!
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcams Thanks for the reply, after reading both reviews I realized that is probably what was happening, good to get confirmation. One thing I felt was missing from the review was a comparison to the brain. As an epic 2022 owner this is really the question I have, how does the performance compare? Thanks again!
Great question!
Overall the suspension on the new Epic is a lot smoother and quieter compared to the Brain-equipped Epic.
The other key difference is that the Brain damper is effectively a 2-position system; it's either closed or open.
In comparison, the new Epic is built around a 3-position system. You've got Wide Open, Magic Middle and Sprint-On-Lock settings, with a custom-tuned damper in both the SID fork and SIDLuxe shock.
The Magic Middle setting is, in principle, not dissimilar to the Brain. It generates a more pronounced 'nose' to the low-speed compression damping, which provides a noticeable platform to improve pedal efficiency and overall responsiveness. Hit something hard enough and the suspension will break through this platform, offering a smooth and open feel beyond this point that feels much like the Wide Open mode. The way it breaks through is a lot smoother and quieter than the Brain.
Of course for rough descents you can switch the suspension into the Wide Open mode to maximise grip and compliance. In this setting the suspension is significantly plusher and more sensitive compared to the Brain-equipped Epic, even with the Brain dialled into its softest position.
Lastly, you have that Sprint-On-Lock setting that makes the bike fully rigid. It's totally solid and will stay locked out even when you're sprinting over a slightly corrugated surface, which isn't something the Brain fork or shock can achieve.
Otherwise there are other differences. The Brain damper adds some weight and servicing complexity due to the additional parts. However, it also results in a super clean cockpit, whereas most of the new Epic models rely on a TwistLoc remote with two extra cables. The TwistLoc requires active concentration to switch modes, whereas the Brain is designed to be fully automated.
Hope that helps provide some answers for you mate!
[Wil]
@@FlowMountainBikeCZcams Thanks for the super detailed response, that is really helpful. One last question, I noticed that you can buy the S-Works Epic 8 Frame, but that doesn't come with Flight Attendant. How hard would it be to add that if just the frame was purchased?
At the moment you can't buy the Flight Attendant XC system separately. However, RockShox has informed us it will be available from June onwards.
We're yet to confirm pricing, but to give you an idea the current 'Enduro' Flight Attendant kit (Lyrik fork, Super Deluxe shock & pedal sensor) sells for about $5K AUD. Add a powermeter on top of that, and you'll have a fair idea of how much the XC version is likely to cost.
[Wil]
Was it review or advert?
Bike prices are getting stupid ridiculous. You can buy a motorbike or a car for the same price.
And you can buy a house for the price of some watches. Watch enthusiasts don't complain. What's your point?
Cry harder!
Are there better bikes for a better price? Please don't advertise $24,000 bikes.
sounds like a personal problem
Obscene prices. Normalize laughing these companies out of business for selling bikes over 10k
Is not for you my friend…so keep crying
@pe3117 seems like nobody's crying but you little feller. Keep wasting money and getting scammed.
Scott is still the best
it to espensive
let the lady talk a little!
A
You obviously did not ride an Orbea Oiz
Certainly have! You can check out our Oiz review here if you like; flowmountainbike.com/tests/orbea-oiz-review-2023/
[Wil]
The price of top end bikes is still stupidly ridiculous...!!...WHY ???? A Push Bike shouldn't cost more than a Motorbike...Ha!!
Are motorbikes just cheap? Relatively.
Why? Because it's engeneered not for the average consumer, but for the world's best athletes racing at the highest level, I consider it a generosity that they sell these bikes to the public at all. I'll never afford one, but it's cool that I could get one. Buy a cheaper build, they aren't all laughably unaffordable.
Don’t cry! You don’t have to buy one 🤷
The silly thing is that you can buy a lightly used bike for 1/2 off. I just picked up a 2022 epic pro for half a f the 10,000 used price. The bike was maybe ridden once or twice. The previous owner upgraded the bike with quarq power meter as well. Buying new is just plain wasteful and dumb.
It's basically specialized saying we screwed up with the trek supercaliber copy which doesn't work for today's courses.. So we go back to regular epic.
Just gonna post this on every review video?
stop spamming this shit on every video out there...
I like the epic wc but it's really strange that there are three specialized xc fs bikes now. I really think they could sell a hardtail and two fs bikes better.
Stupid money
Why even have a guest if you’re doing all the talking ..
Hi there!
Someone else had mentioned this so I've copied the response to help answer your question;
This was Jo's first time being involved in a project like this, and we were stoked to have her on board! She's been helping out with testing the two Epics, providing some excellent feedback along the way that has shaped the reviews, and she also joined us for the final shoot in Buxton. While she is super busy with her MTB skills coaching business and a young family, we hope we can get her involved in more reviews and videos in the future.
I do think it's worth acknowledging that not everyone feels totally comfortable being on camera - I'm lucky to have been a professional bike tester for well over a decade, and in that time I've garnered a lot of experience (and mistakes!) in producing reviews and presenting to camera. It still isn't easy, but I'm pretty comfortable making a fool of myself given I do it on a regular basis 😂
Jo wasn't particularly keen to be on camera in the first place, and we didn't want to push her into doing anything she wasn't happy with. We came up with a few ideas and she ended up going with what you see in the final video. We all liked the end result, so I'm sorry if it came across the way you described as that certainly wasn't the intention.
I'm really glad Jo got involved, and I think it speaks volumes to her experience and professionalism that she came across so comfortable on camera. I reckon she would do a fantastic job taking a more senior role in presenting videos, so hopefully we can provide her with more experience at Flow moving forward.
Apologies for the long response, but hopefully that helps provide some backstory on how we ended up with that particular review format.
Thanks again for the feedback, which helps us to keep working on improving our reviews and videos moving forward!
[Wil]
Bro relax, Specialized isn't going to fuck you