The future direction of this test rig and thoughts on where an official Voron IDEX design should head. zruncho's Double Dragon V0 IDEX: github.com/zru...
It should be possible to write software for collision avoidance of the heads. If the heads can share space on the x-rail, but not at the same time, the effective print volume of each head would be increased. You could print two parts at the same time, overlapping in Y.
My 2c on sizing and staying inside the Voron ecosystem. Having build a scratch design double idex (4 heads) -- I don't regret going bigger. I actually regret not making the frame more rigid, as it is it's a combination of 4040s, a lot of custom CNC parts etc. If you stay on klipper, idex is very limited, I am using duet 3 on my machine, and RRF has a lot better multi head support, mirror, duplication, everything -- even a plan to have multiple gcode paths, so if a machine is capable of independent Y and X control of tools, it will be able to synch the z and print different models. If you're going with trident mgn12 - you can easily get 450 or 490mm LDO linear rails -- I believe they're used in a few other open source builds, so if you wanted to go bigger, you very easily could -- and have the 350x350 bed in the center. Umbilical vs cable chain with canbus is speed and weight decision. If you want more speed, stick with umbilical and the 4 wire canbus makes it a super light connection. As is Voron is at it's basic a corexy kinematic, RRF supports a weird kinematic to do corexyu idex, so you can get the speed, but if you go with the cartesian xyu, and trident z, it's already a significant enough departure so do whatever makes sense for the design not the brand.
Thank you so much for adding some information about Tridex. I think there is a lot of people (like me) who would love to build one but there is very little information about certain areas of the project. I think i've seen cable chains added for a dual toolhead gantry by having one cable chain above the other and rotating them to bend horizontally rather than upright. I use tridents at work and we're working on a trident bed sensor which is exactly what the Idex machines need. It'll avoid all the issues with the wrong toolhead probing the bed and simplify the toolheads if the bed is the sensor. Have you implemented duplication or mirror mode? This is super important if you print for a living. It could effectively half print times. There is some information online regarding this in Klipper but only for those who really know Klipper inside and out.
I have not used anything other than the official Klipper build. I believe eddietheengineer has a version with the other modes sorted, but I would not know where to find it. There are other older forks that add Mirror and Duplication modes, but I have not tried them. I am hoping the features make it into the official build by the time I am done tinkering with the hardware. I am currently working on the cable chain path and will cover it in my next video.
I have a hunch that if the rails were made of aluminum 7075 (nearly double strength of 6061) you could shave off 35-40% of the weight. The stuff is almost as strong as building steel in the weight of aluminum. Only downside is cost and cant weld it-but there is no issue machining it.
What's your nozzle size? I switched from 0.4 to 0.6 recently and face new challenges: I always print with ABS or ASA and never used a part cooling fan. Now with 0.3mm layer height and extrusions up to 1.2 mm it's a lot more plastic you're laying down, which has not enough time to cool by itself before the next layer is put on top of it. (heated chamber normally around 50 C) I have to use a fan now, I'm running it on 30%, but weird things happen like infill curling up too much and the nozzle bumps on to it in the next layer.. Ofcourse I could just turn off the fan and lower the print speed drastically (like 40mm/s) but speed was the main point for the big nozzle 🙄 Any thoughts on that?
On the IDEX I am running .4 nozzles on plain V6 hotends with titanium heatbreaks. The fastest I ever print is 60mm/sec walls & 60-120 infill. Fast, strong(no fan), good overhangs...you can only have two. I have an ASA profile that slows to 5mm/sec on overhangs. I experimented with larger nozzles on the V2 a long time ago and didn't like how gaps were left between walls. I need to give it another try since Cura has changed to handle this better.
@@badmouth75 Thanks. "Variable width" printing is possible with the new Arachne slicing engine in Prusa slicer and Superslicer. With this, small details are possible with bigger nozzles, definitely check it out
Cura is adding it automatically. Under travel settings there is a setting for "Z Hop After Extruder Switch Height". It is set to 1mm by default. The one thing I don't like about it is that it drops the Z height back down before moving the next toolhead into position. Sometimes if there is filament oozing it will get wiped on the edge of the print as the toolhead moves in. That is why I am using a draft shield in this print. It's actually to catch those blobs.
Does this run klipper? I've been thinking about converting my modded ender 3 that is now idex with octopus board. I've been nervous about it because I don't fully understand that. I run klipper on 2 other machines
It is running stock klipper, however stock klipper does not support duplicate or mirror modes. There are alternative builds out there that do, but I haven't tried them yet. I have another video covering the relevant klipper settings.
It should be possible to write software for collision avoidance of the heads. If the heads can share space on the x-rail, but not at the same time, the effective print volume of each head would be increased. You could print two parts at the same time, overlapping in Y.
My 2c on sizing and staying inside the Voron ecosystem. Having build a scratch design double idex (4 heads) -- I don't regret going bigger. I actually regret not making the frame more rigid, as it is it's a combination of 4040s, a lot of custom CNC parts etc. If you stay on klipper, idex is very limited, I am using duet 3 on my machine, and RRF has a lot better multi head support, mirror, duplication, everything -- even a plan to have multiple gcode paths, so if a machine is capable of independent Y and X control of tools, it will be able to synch the z and print different models. If you're going with trident mgn12 - you can easily get 450 or 490mm LDO linear rails -- I believe they're used in a few other open source builds, so if you wanted to go bigger, you very easily could -- and have the 350x350 bed in the center. Umbilical vs cable chain with canbus is speed and weight decision. If you want more speed, stick with umbilical and the 4 wire canbus makes it a super light connection. As is Voron is at it's basic a corexy kinematic, RRF supports a weird kinematic to do corexyu idex, so you can get the speed, but if you go with the cartesian xyu, and trident z, it's already a significant enough departure so do whatever makes sense for the design not the brand.
Thank you so much for adding some information about Tridex. I think there is a lot of people (like me) who would love to build one but there is very little information about certain areas of the project. I think i've seen cable chains added for a dual toolhead gantry by having one cable chain above the other and rotating them to bend horizontally rather than upright. I use tridents at work and we're working on a trident bed sensor which is exactly what the Idex machines need. It'll avoid all the issues with the wrong toolhead probing the bed and simplify the toolheads if the bed is the sensor. Have you implemented duplication or mirror mode? This is super important if you print for a living. It could effectively half print times. There is some information online regarding this in Klipper but only for those who really know Klipper inside and out.
I have not used anything other than the official Klipper build. I believe eddietheengineer has a version with the other modes sorted, but I would not know where to find it. There are other older forks that add Mirror and Duplication modes, but I have not tried them. I am hoping the features make it into the official build by the time I am done tinkering with the hardware. I am currently working on the cable chain path and will cover it in my next video.
I have a hunch that if the rails were made of aluminum 7075 (nearly double strength of 6061) you could shave off 35-40% of the weight. The stuff is almost as strong as building steel in the weight of aluminum. Only downside is cost and cant weld it-but there is no issue machining it.
Very good ideas👍👍👍keep it up
How's this going, looks like its been a year? Are you willing to advise someone trying to do something similar?
Great project!
About kinematics: if I understood, the Y axis is Cartesian and both X1 and X2 are Markforged style. Is that correct?
The entire setup including the Y drive is known as Markforged kinematics. It is also referred to as Hybrid CoreXY.
What is the printing speed of this idex device
What's your nozzle size? I switched from 0.4 to 0.6 recently and face new challenges:
I always print with ABS or ASA and never used a part cooling fan. Now with 0.3mm layer height and extrusions up to 1.2 mm it's a lot more plastic you're laying down, which has not enough time to cool by itself before the next layer is put on top of it. (heated chamber normally around 50 C)
I have to use a fan now, I'm running it on 30%, but weird things happen like infill curling up too much and the nozzle bumps on to it in the next layer.. Ofcourse I could just turn off the fan and lower the print speed drastically (like 40mm/s) but speed was the main point for the big nozzle 🙄
Any thoughts on that?
On the IDEX I am running .4 nozzles on plain V6 hotends with titanium heatbreaks. The fastest I ever print is 60mm/sec walls & 60-120 infill. Fast, strong(no fan), good overhangs...you can only have two. I have an ASA profile that slows to 5mm/sec on overhangs. I experimented with larger nozzles on the V2 a long time ago and didn't like how gaps were left between walls. I need to give it another try since Cura has changed to handle this better.
@@badmouth75 Thanks. "Variable width" printing is possible with the new Arachne slicing engine in Prusa slicer and Superslicer. With this, small details are possible with bigger nozzles, definitely check it out
Hey mate, how do you do the z hop when it changes toolheads? If is via the T0, T1 macro or is it done via the slicer?
Cura is adding it automatically. Under travel settings there is a setting for "Z Hop After Extruder Switch Height". It is set to 1mm by default. The one thing I don't like about it is that it drops the Z height back down before moving the next toolhead into position. Sometimes if there is filament oozing it will get wiped on the edge of the print as the toolhead moves in. That is why I am using a draft shield in this print. It's actually to catch those blobs.
Does this run klipper? I've been thinking about converting my modded ender 3 that is now idex with octopus board. I've been nervous about it because I don't fully understand that. I run klipper on 2 other machines
It is running stock klipper, however stock klipper does not support duplicate or mirror modes. There are alternative builds out there that do, but I haven't tried them yet. I have another video covering the relevant klipper settings.
@@badmouth75 ok I will check them out. Thank you