Welding sheet metal. Shielding gas or flux core??
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2021
- Showing the difference wire sizes as well as the difference between shielding gas and flux core wire in welding sheet metal. can you do the cut and butt with flux core?
- Jak na to + styl
With flux core you have to drag the torch, not push it. There's a saying, 'if there's slag let it drag'. Also remove the shroud since it does nothing but get in the way, and have about 13mm (1/2") stick out, and cut off the wire after each run since the flux will be taken away.
Love your work.
Agree, Just like to add that I find generous use of anti spatter spray helps my jobs, I'm no welder, but having success in my eyes on my project
Really made me feel a little better seeing you struggle with the flux core, thought it was just me. Another interesting and informative video , Thanks
Best lesson ever. I've been trying to practice before i start on my old car and not getting good results. Out to buy the lower guage wire tomorrow. Thank you. More lessons like this please. Great video Tony.
This channel is the best. Wish I'd seen all this year's ago! Great stuff. Off to buy thinner wire.
I thought i shouldn't be smiling watching Fitzee struggle His test panel looked very familiar 😂
@@lukejones9002 mom's 0g
Thank you for this video.
I use flux core often. I would agree it's not an ideal choice for anything thinner than maybe 10 or 12 gauge. However I have welded body panels with it before. A couple it tips I would give are dragging your weld is better than pushing with flux core. Also if you're trying to weld a gap and this would be especially true with sheet metal...You want to start your arc on metal never in the gap. You then drag across to the other side like a stitch. Keeping the torch at low angel. Maybe 15 degrees.
I understand spot welding thin sheet you don't have time to move the torch much of anywhere, but starting in the gap is almost a guaranteed blow through. Flux core is tube with flux powder inside. That delay you hear is delay before the flux heats enough to do anything. Until it begins to melt you won't get a stable weld pool and to be effective the flux needs to supplied to the weld pool, which is why you drag, not push. When you start an arc on an edge it is basically the same as if use normal wire with no shielding gas.
Thanks. I drag too but then again I learned first on a stick welder on steel castings. Maybe another issue he’s having is the ground. Going to the table rather than the part increases the resistance and artificially pumps up the voltage when the polarity is reversed, as he did.
Thanks for the extra information.
Yep you got to start on the metal not in the gap and sweep over to the other side with the flux core or you'll too often blow through and widen the gap plus when you can, use a copper spoon behind the weld. A spoon isn't just for plug welding. A narrower Flux Core Nozzle will also help with increasing visibility and reducing overheating.
Lincoln Flux Core wire might not be the best choice for thin stock either and there are other much better wire choices. Much of the flux core available is Single Pass which does not work as well for Stitch Welding so you can try a Multi-Pass wire and see if that helps. Note that often the best wire is not always the most expensive either.
For outdoor welding especially on windy days flux core is a very good choice. Guy that trained me started welding when the only choice was oxyacetylene or stick welding with bare steel rods which you had to make up your own paper mache rod coating for. He would tell me that you can weld just about anything using simple equipment if you take the time to think through the limitations and work within them instead of fighting against them. Too many times he'd see welders with all sorts of credentials and certifications fail on certain jobs mostly because their schooling boxed them in so tightly that they couldn't see outside of that box that was causing them to fail.
After seeing this I feel a lot better about the body work I've been doing for years with a very simple 120 Volt 90 Amp Wire Feed Flux Welder.
Best!
I was one of those who requested a primer on MIG welding versus flux core. You hit a home run with this video. Once again it comes down to having the right tool for the job. Excellent work! Thank you.
Was the welder AC With the flux core wire because recommendations on flux say to use DCEN. I would like to see a comparative analysis between those. It appeared to be AC based on the splatter and sound of the arc
One of the best lessons I have ever watched when it comes to welding. Thanks Fitzee for taking the time to showing us how to to use the different wires and setting.
Your videos are priceless. Thanks for taking all the effort on this one. I am currently doing my first body restoration. I have welded in the heavy construction/ equipment field for years. I am very experienced in heavy steel construction up to 1 inch steel plate This sheet metal is a whole different game. I am really enjoying it. Thanks again Professor Tony👌👌
Nice job, what about the differences in pulling and pushing the puddle!!
All i have it a cheap Harbor freight mig that i just use flux core on. I have been trying to save for a good welder, maybe a multi process but being retired it's not that easy to save. But you taught me a lot. I could just hang out all day and listen to you. You're a fountain of knowledge.
When he said "it's not You" tears of joy Fell... Been having issues with flux for a long time! Being waiting for this vídeo since forever
Word 😂
Wow, I have so many thoughts on this!:
1 - You just raised my pride 300%. Other than tiny repair jobs, my first welding project is replacing the firewall, trans tunnel, and floorpans of my first car project (a scrapyard rescue 1969 Opel GT) with salvaged donors. My flux core work doesn't look any worse than yours! Nor does my panel warping! Nor do my burnthroughs. I've got probably a couple hundred hours of fiddling around as best I can, on a mission of "I want this done and I'm not going to quit even if it's tough."
2 - One thing I've found helps, is to have fairly extreme sideways angle on the gun, pointed back at what you've already welded. Sometimes low as the tip will let me get to it, maybe only 20 degrees (if 0 is completely sideways laying on the panel). That way the wire is pushing diagonally into the metal, and into thicker metal, and it gives you a fighting chance about not burning through. It's like you have an imaginary 30% extra metal thickness if you look at the path the wire has to take. Kind of like shaving carrots diagonally rather than a straight chop, you have more carrot to slice through.
3 - Almost everyone who has a little flux core-only machine has it even worse than you, because these little machines have no amperage control, just a Hi/Lo switch that cuts about 50% of your amperage. That and wirespeed are all you've got to play with. Your Miller you're making little 5%, 10% adjustments on power. No such luck for most of us cheapskates that chose the "What is the cheapest I can get into welding, so that it's at least an option" welder.
4 - My confidence for other reasons has dropped a bit. I've been watching you for 8 months or so now, being ready to try my first cut-and-butt when I next work on panels (wheelwells/fenders/rockers are next, which are visible unlike everything I've done so far, these welds won't be hidden by carpet). But flux core really cannot handle ANY airgap, regardless of technique. Worse, I would say that at least 75% of my welding time is trying to fix my pinholes and burnthroughs. One single pinhole can take 15 minutes of chasing it around the panel to fix. And flux will fill the hole and make you think you're done, then you grind and discover you have to keep trying. Incredibly frustrating.
At this point, it's a bit of a point of pride to me because of the people who said it "can't" be done with flux core and I would "never" finish. I only wanted a small investment in gear or I wouldn't have taken on the project, so I'm sticking to my guns even though I knew from the start that MIG was the right way to go. So far my results have been: it can be done, it takes 4x as long and it's incredibly frustrating. I'm not going to ruin the car, so, if I find I just can't make progress without miserably warping the panels, I'll swallow my pride and borrow a friend's MIG who's offered.
I've video'd almost every weld I've done, I'll put together a short video sometime and post it, showing the best/worst of it.
Well said! You have real determination.
If you have access to the rear of the panel, back it with copper or aluminum.
If it's too great a reach to hold by hand, use Clecos or pop rivets to hold the backing material..
The copper or aluminum will take the excess heat, and your weld won't stick to it.
For a small hand held backer, just flatten an old copper plumbing drain pipe and add a paint brush handle.
Sometimes it's better to admit the professionals are right and invest in the proper kit. You can buy most of it 2nd hand so the cost is not as bad as you think but the improvement in your welding will be priceless. I have a Clarke 160 (bought used off ebay) which is only a notch above basic but (now I fitted a Euro torch) it works brilliantly and wasn't expensive.
@@alibro7512 - The thing with MIG is you then need a bottle. It's not as portable. It's not as small, you need to dedicate a place to store it. And, you have 2 consumables to keep track of. Plus around here, most of the gas suppliers aren't interested in supplying to hobbyists. Or, they'll only let you buy some if you have a truck where the bottle can be placed vertically in the bed, it's not allowed in a car, etc etc. If you're doing a serious amount of bodywork, sure, but if you're just getting started and aren't sure how far you want to take a hobby, having a low barrier to curiosity is wonderful. Look at how many people are getting into metalwork specifically because of how cheaply you can pick up a flux core welder. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Serendipity Matt? That we're both here? Grins super wide to "see" you again matey.
Opel GT? Noice. Last year picked my long dead grandfathers '68 Mercury 3/4 ton but haven't yet grown the 'nads to cut into it. Shit, last time I saw it .. I was 3-1/2 feet tall in the 70's. It's just metal .. but it's also not.
Always a gas man .035 myself (zombie armour) .. but with the Hamilton shop long in the rear-view, and now lolling in the open Canajun shield muskeg trying to build a bus with o'er night rust flash and no out-building to play in .. Bought a spool and reckoned Fitzee here might have a flux core tip or two.
It’s so much appreciated to have a master try various settings and fail as opposed to the novice who could fail dozens of ways and not have a clue what to adjust. Thank you Fitz 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks Fitzy … you’ve answered so many questions that I had. I like the way you explain the steps thoroughly - and my amateur welding has improved out of sight
It's a pity that I couldn't have seen this video 40 years ago before I had to learn all this stuff on my own by trial and error. Nice job in conveying the facts of the matter!!!
I was having a hard time welding sheet metal until I watched your videos. I was able to set up my welder with your previous video and haven’t looked back. I love your CZcams channel. It would take me years to learn what you have already learned. With the knowledge you have shared I have been able to do some complicated tasks that I would never have dreamed of doing. I have a Hobart 140 with 0.23 wire. The tips are awesome! Thank you for sharing.
Tony, another thing to keep in mind with fluxcore, is that while the wire is larger, the amount of metal isn't, because the flux takes-up space. So, a 0.030" flux core is roughly the same as the 0.023" solid, and the 0.035" fluxcore is roughly the same as 0.030" solid. Also, leave more stick-out with flux core, so that the flux gets warmed a bit more.
Great info
The .030 flux core may have the same amount of metal as the .023 solid wire per inch, but the way this metal is transferred is entirely different in the two processes. The solid wire uses what is called short circuit transfer. The wire touches the base metal causing a short circuit. The arc goes out momentarily as the wire hits, and a small ball of molten metal forms at the tip of the wire, and the ball flows into the puddle. Once it melts off, the arc is re-established, and the cycle continues. The arc coming and going produces the ripping sound that you hear. Flux core transfers via globular transfer. A large glob of metal forms on the wire and melts off before the wire hits the base metal. The glob is in the arc long enough that it boils before falling into the puddle. The boiling and the splash produces the spatter common with flux core.
The small steady stream coming from short circuit transfer is what makes it more controllable than flux core, and that, along with the smallest wire available, is what you need for sheet metal. The only question I have is whether or not the better bead profile that comes with an argon mix might result in less grinding, and offset the cost. Fitzy has a lot more experience than me in this type of work, so I'll accept his call on that.
@@fitzeesfabrications also, turn your voltage up(more arc force) and your wire speed down. Most wire welders add more amperage with wire speed. But yes its very challenging. The super cheap Chicago Electric flux core welders from Harbor Freight also have an advantage here for body work since they are actually an AC arc(less heat & less penetration) even though the wire calls for DC. I have not tried this but for body panels you might be able to get away with reversing polarity(it will be messy and spattery though). If you want a real fun time I have butt welded 18ga with 5/64 6013 rods on AC with as low as I could get the amperage on my machine(about 45 amps).....sometimes you gotta use what you have at the time.
@@maplebones
Thank you Peter, good info along with Fitzee's flux work here. Im a new, older welder (63) and have not used gas yet. Have welded on Corvair fender replacement and a lot of floorboards. I found with my 90 amp China Freight flx unit that keeping my ground as close as possible helps. I use a self tapping screw and an L bracket as needed to get closer......im really tired of crap welds and know i can do a better job with gas and increase productivity!.....i just need to coin up. Have been leaning toward the 110 gas 135 amp unit Eastwood sells for $400. Seems to have good setting ability and designed for 18 to 22 guage metal. What is a price comparable unit you guys can recommend over the Eastwood or do i pull the trigger with Eastwood.
PS: that Eastwood has a lot of good comments.
Thank you!!
@@yurimodin7333 don’t deliberately reverse correct polarity. You’ll get porosity. That will not only weaken the weld (particularly since this is thin sheet!), but cause it to rust more quickly. Primers and even paint doesn’t fill those microscopic holes because of surface tension. The rear of the panel is more subject to rusting normally, and this will make it worse. Correct polarity is correct for a reason, and it’s not looks.
Great tips, Tony, as always. Very good explanation of the differences between the 3 wires and types. Thanks!
Man, this makes my day! I did a project replacing rockers on my Tacoma using flux core after watching a bunch of your videos and had the exact same problems. I ended up having to use lap welds to make it work. Thanks Fitzee!
You are a great teacher. You are super patient going through the options with a realistic outlook. I am currently practising your lessons on a very well perforated lawn mower deck. In one sense it is easy since it was produced in 14Swg so, where the metal still exists, it is a bit easier than for car bodies. However, there are no flat areas and most of the curves are in 3d so it is a bit of a challenge in 14Swg. I am using 0.8mm Argon/CO2 but I will certainly switch to 0.6mm +gas when I switch to car bodies. I just love your teachings.
I would love to have a mig. However, when your budget only allows for a minimalistic idea to it, you have to do what you can. With using flux as I have to, I found a low feed with low heat and a longer hold you can make a much better weld. I have it figured out with flux, still have some issues of course. I am not a pro by any means. I had relearn my welding, due to 105°+ fevers over 15 years caused me to lose several memories including welding. Fitzee has helped with this immensely. Thank you again sir.
Thanks for the primer on flux core. I always have no end of trouble with it on sheet metal.
👨🏭 I know how you feel I've been sick for like almost 20 years I was in common,s I died 4 time's like 30 operations been really really sick and top of a lot more wrong with me like 30 things all kind of physical problems and the handicapped I have a hard time trying to walk even I used 2 crutches or I should say Kane's and I barely can walk but I'm having fun welding and I'm building a little shop trying to earn a little money on the side in the future I had to give up my sideworks , and stuff but I know how you feel brother I lost a lot of memories through all that it sucks don't it .
Also getting older now 72.
It's only a number to me .
It's the body man .
👨🏭 : GOD BLESS YOU 🙏 DON'T EVER GIVE UP.
DON'T SIT AROUND ! ! !
THAT WILL KILL YA . 👨🏭
@@theodorebowers9737 I was a body builder from 14 to 21 years old. My now exwife decided to feed me enormous doses of pure vanadium every day for over 6 years. I've been fighting for my health back, at least a heavy majority of it. I'm 45 this year. Used to weight 239 with 1% external body fat at 21. I never give up, although I must say there were days of pain I would have ended it. It's just not in me. I may have missed out on half my life I will live the remainder like I'm 25 lol You keep up the good fight too. May The Father bless you and all your endeavors.
@@vincenthanson2125
🙋 Man I know HOW YOU FEEL . I felt like I Wanted to die, end it , a lot of times
I BELIEVE IN GOD SUICIDES IS LIKE MURDER same thing to me anyway you go to hell I don't want to go to hell , I'm not a holy man but I do believe in GOD and JESUS I believe your BODY is all you got in LIFE I've been FIGHTING so HARD and it gets WORSE and WORSE now had 2 HEART ATTACKS on top of it , I've GOT AN ATTITUDE I DON'T CARE , lol
I WAS ALWAY was doing things ! you LAY AROUND YOU DIE I lost all my MUSCLES ON MY BACK 4YRS IN HOSPITAL . from my body just like the ASTRONAUTS would BE if they would NOT EXERCISE, your HEART'S a MUSCLE DOCTORS TOLD ME if I don't GET UP I'm GONNA DIE ! Well they WERE RIGHT, a DIED, but I came BACK GOD BLESS this GREAT COUNTRY , GOD BLESS EVERYBODY like YOU and ME what's bothering me It's what is going on today ,I wish everybody LUCK and BLESSINGS ESPECIALLY YOU , YOU KNOW WHAT PAINS LIKE ,IN PAIN every day for 19 years and it's BAD REAL BAD not like a TOOTHACHE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. GOD BLESS AMERICA 🇺🇲
🙋 BYE
Your hearts only as big as your fist. Keep on loving and fighting
I enjoy all your posts, but I am very glad to see this video. I have accomplished a lot of good body work with my flux core, but like you found, it has been extremely frustrating to constantly blow holes through the seam and have to keep rebuilding the area with weld. This is giving me the push that I have needed to bite the bullet and go pick up a bottle of shielding gas. Thanks for the great tips and content!
Hi Fitzee - after a couple of years learning mig gas welding on my classic restoration I just finished up repairing a couple of garden gates, 14 gauge square tube. I used flux core for the first time and was impressed with how easy it was. Kinda wish I'd done it the other way around as after watching your video it all makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to do this very informative video.
I was wondering about using flux core and now I know. Seems to be a lot more work to get the same effect as the .023 gas wire. I just bought my first roll of .023 and found some old fenders in the scrap pile to start practicing on. Thanks for taking the time to pass on the knowledge.
I've been using flux core for a while now on sheet metal. After watching this video I'm excited about trying 023 wire and gas. Excellent video! thank you
Hi, I am new to body work and your videos are just what I needed. I have always been a decent welder, but never body work or thin materials. I have spent the last week fighting 22 gauge with my TIG. Right when I was getting comfortable with tig and thin sheet, I find your videos. Switching my Miller 215 to .023 tomorrow to try out what you have been teaching. Also, Big difference welding with nothing behind that thin stuff, what a pain lol. Thanks for the great videos.
Had my bfast and your latest video, time to head to the barn inspired. Thanks Tony, enjoy the weekend!
I’ve watched a lot of welding videos and tried both types of wire. This by far, is the best explanation of the differences in wire type I have ever seen. Well done sir!!! Your experience also shed light on why the flux wire acts the way it did on sheet metal more than I’ve heard before. It renews my belief that I can become a functional welder someday but by using the right process and wire.
I've used this flux cored stuff loads as I'm working at home "on the driveway" and you do kind of develop a way round it's shortcomings, that said nothing can overcome flux cored in a cheap hobby machine. You have to be pretty shit hot as a welder to get good results from that combo of horror.
I bought a decent mid range home/Pro level machine and it changed the game and with the skills I'd learned getting around the crappy machine it set me in good stead (R-Tech MIG 180 in case anyone was wondering).
I usually joggled all my bodywork joints to give the extra thickness for the heat, it's good enough for home working but not for working as a pro (I was a restoration engineer before my back let go so I have previous experience too).
Thanks for doing this video, a lot of people needed to see this.
Great video Fitzee! It’s been 20+ years since I’ve done any welding, but I wanted to do the restoration of my ‘57 Bel Aire. Floors were rusted out. I bought a nice little Lincoln welder that came with flux core wire. It has been nightmare! I thought it was my inexperience. Great to see your welds came out looking like mine!!
I took my .030 flux core out and reloaded with .023 gas. Had to go out and buy a bottle of gas but it has been worth it! What a difference!
Another lesson learned watching Fitzee’s Fabrication 👍👍
You're a good Man. Thank you for saving me a ton of heartache trying to weld with flux core on body panels. I'm in the process of getting gas for my welder. I've been putting off trying to weld body panels for a long time... This has given me the courage to try it.
The best welding educational video I have seen in years. Thanks!
Great demonstration Tony. Ran out of mig mix butt welding a patch in a door last weekend. Had to pull out the old flux core. It's challenging and takes a lot of patience but can be done.
Excellent demo and explanation Fitzee! Thanks for posting. Another great video...thanks!
I have been using mix gas for a long time and had to use a friend's flux core wire machine. I found it harder to weld but his wire was a smaller gage . It was nice to use the smaller wire for sheet metal but it had alot more splatter and clean up. This was a good video because I did start on a flux wire before I went to gas over 20 years ago. It makes the a big difference and will never go back for body work. I'm not a certified welder but learned on stick in 1969 and weld as a hobby. You are a good teacher and a good welder.
Thank you, Tony , for a very informative video. I have always been told MIG was much better than flux core for body work. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I think in this case it is much more than a thousand. I am an 80 year old man enjoying repairing my rusty '79 Chevy truck. All I know about MIG welding I learned from you. Always looking forward to another video, and I watch the old ones over and over. Ernie from Pennsylvania.
Thank you so much for watching and keep at your project.
Thank you Tony, I'm about to buy my very first welder and you've helped me make up my mind because I also want to weld sheet metal to fix my car. Thanks again Tony, I've been watching every single one of your videos. Love your channel.
DON'T use a Harbor Freight welder...the adjustments are NOT accurate enough,to dial it in,on thin metals!
Dirk.....Save your $ Buy quality.....I have a Old [1991] MillerMatic 150 that's still running like a Top.....The other thing is the machine is still worth $ if I wanted to sell it.....I leave that machine with .030 wire in it and bi mix........I have another machine dedicated to just sheetmetal and run Co2 and .023 wire. A Miller 140 or a Lincoln 140 is what You want to be looking at for what you want to do.
Fitzee thanks for doing this. I was literally just doing some testing on body panels last night and came up with similar results with flux core. I couldn’t find any videos that showed the difference. I have a welder that will take gas but haven’t bought any yet. Going to be working on the bed of my truck and think I’m going to have to go with gas. Thanks so much for doing this test. I know it took you a while to do this video. Love your body work. Thanks for teaching us what you know.
There’s a whole new class of Inverter Welders that are designed to run primarily flux core. They are for the hobbyist that doesn’t want to jump right into bottles, regulators, etc. Amazing how inexpensive they are for the quality of flux core welds they are capable of. Great vid. Thanks!!!
This is easily the most valuable welding video I’ve seen. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and explaining it so well. Will make my current bodywork project come out significantly better than my last!
Thank you for taking the time to explain this us, it's extremely helpful.
Greetings from Texas! I'm so glad I found your channel. I'm restoring a Porsche 911 on my channel and it has quite a bit of rust. I recently bought a YesWelder as my first and am learning how to weld sheet metal. You're absolutely right, most of the lessons online are for structured or thick steel. Not for auto body work. I bought .025 wire on my 18ga floorboard. I'm just welding on scraps at this point. Thanks for the lesson and SUBSCRIBED!
Great video!
Flux core is great for structural stuff. And you need good ventilation. If you are welding outdoors, it has advantanges bécasse the wind can blow your shielding gas away. This is why, when I bring a welding machine at the race track, I put flux core wire in it. But for most automotive applications, shielding gas is the way to go.
Keep up the good work!
Btw, the 22 gage is not 0.08 mm, which is thinner than paper, it’s 0.8 mm, which is like the thickness of 4-5 playing cards. Apart from that, one of the most useful videos that I’ve ever seen on this topic!
Just stumbled onto your channel. This was one of the best videos I’ve seen so far explaining and showing the difference with gas and flux while trying to weld sheet metal. I burnt through my fender using .035 flux so many times it was frustrating. My next venture will be gas and .023 wire. Thanks for this video!
Thank you. Seriously I know I’m not the only one that feels this way, you’re awesome! I learn just about everything I know how to do watching CZcams videos like yours and it really make all the difference learning how to do something the right way and we really appreciate your videos! Can’t tell you how much this video helped me out 🤘🏻😉🤘🏻
As mean spirited as this sounds, it's deeply satisfying to see that Tony has as much trouble with flux core as I do.
I'm still amazed by anyone who can run a straight bead. Mine look more like a roadmap.
Very good video
Fitzee, I know it took a lot of time to put this video together. I really appreciate your effort to produce this side-by-side comparison. As I’ve said about your work before, actually SEEING what “take it slow” truly IS helps so much more than just hearing someone say “just go slow”. THANK YOU!
I been sticking metal together as a hobby for over thirty years. I’ve welded 4130, stainless, and mild steel using oxy-acetylene, TIG, stick, and MIG, mostly with other people’s equipment. A few years ago I bought a used Lincoln Pro-140 but the PO did not have the regulator so I started a Jeep restoration using flux core. Your videos have been hugely beneficial to me, but I’ve been frustrated by my weld quality. A few months ago I switched over to mixed gas, true MIG.
I have made every mistake you observed. I’ll add two comments:
1) The flux core can be very corrosive, especially with cheaper wires. I live in a humid area, and I’ve seen surface rust start literally overnight on a weld that was not cleaned. I got really concerned about this and the possibility of inclusions and inter-granular corrosion. This is when I switched over to mixed gas with .023 wire as you suggested. Best thing I ever did. It is working remarkably better.
2) I know you don’t throw stuff away, and you will keep the flux core for heavier gage work, maybe an outside repair on something. I am told that if you allow about 3/4” of wire between tip and workpiece it allows the flux to heat for a better shield. Logically it makes sense. With gas you keep a closer distance so the gas is more effective.
I was so frustrated with my work with flux core. Having seen the master’s (that would be Fitzee) “cut and butt” with FCAW I don’t feel so bad about my FCAW cut and butt. They look a lot alike!
NOW…if I could just get my TRUE MIG (gas) welds to look as perfect as yours I’ll be set!😆👨🏼🏭
Just keep at it it. You will get it
I just bought a Lincoln 180 mig hoping to patch my truck. I thought I'd use flux core. Did you find the gas to be costly?
@@nedcramdon1306 well, there is a cost, and you have to be vigilant about shutting the valve off when not welding, but the welds are SO MUCH CLEANER. I KNOW that the flux residue not only induces rust, but inteferes with paint, so in my opinion I'm coming out ahead with gas.
Of course, the smoke from flux core is also an issue. Can't be good for you, at least judging from what I blow out of my nose!
@@nedcramdon1306 the cost of gas is relatively cheap, also the welding wire is a lot less expensive too. In all honesty, it probably works out the same in the long run (welder, gas, wire Vs all flux core stuff) But you will have much cleaner results)
@@nedcramdon1306 Ned, my previous response was inadequate. Maybe this will be more helpful.
You can buy bottles or rent. If you buy, they sometimes sell used bottles a little cheaper than new. Be careful about the hydro test inspection date if you buy used - be sure you have time left so you won’t have to pay for retest too soon. I rent a 125 cubic foot bottle. Required a $100 deposit and the rent is $7.60 a month. 125 cu ft of blended gas is $59. I can’t tell you how long that gas will last - too many variables like flow rate and how often it is accidentally left on (and seeps out). That 125 cu ft bottle stands about 46 inches tall to valve handle top. These are 2021 prices in the SE US, and of course they will vary.
A 125 cu ft bottle full of blended gas with a 10 year hydro test date is around $350 to purchase on Amazon. It was cheaper to purchase from my local industrial gas dealer. As long as the hydro test is current you can get them refilled, and they can be retested after the current test expires. (Keeping them damage and rust free will help insure passing subsequent tests.)
Comparing the weld quality between FCAW and true MIG makes the cost well worth it in my opinion, if only from the flux inclusion perspective. MIG is so much cleaner and I have no concerns about flux residue induced corrosion.
Hope this is a better response for you.
Seeing a professional struggle with thin metal and flux core makes me feel a bit better about my work!! Great videos thanks for posting.
Another in-depth coverage of a really useful subject, thanks!
Flux-core is most of the time all we have, so the struggle goes on. I managed to fix rocker panels and wheel arches for my old beater using 0.8mm flux-core, and made a few observations on the way. Gaps in butt-welds are a big no-no. You need to fit you patch panels almost perfectly. I'd do butt-welds only if there's no other way. I have an old Miller Cricket XL and had to use very low wire feed speed to control the heat. Also I found that keeping your gun in a lower angle sometimes helps especially with butt-welds. Keeping the gun in a high angle makes you blow through very easily. All in all you'll get results but with a cost of a lot of experimenting and frustration. For next sheet metal job I'll definately get a gas bottle.
Had a cricket, was stolen, I used 030 flux and gas with great results from both on autobody. The .023 would always blow through tho. Got a SF140T Lincoln online, gonna see how it works on a cab corner in day or 2. Came with .24 steel and 35 flux, gonna try dialing that in 1st since I'm out of gas. Came with a spool gun to, they had a run of machines while back that had bad circuit boards so says referbished, was never used tho.
you may also may want to experiment with changing polarity. On flux core change gun to positive and work negative to reduce burn through and you can still use gas.
Thanks brother. The detailed explanations of what your doing and experiencing, including your settings, makes me feel a lot more confident as I'm practicing with flux core. Waiting on my gas cylinder to arrive for the gas. "If you're using flux core and you're getting this type of thing, it's not you ok. Well it is you." Classic statement. I also appreciate the fact that you talk about the problems YOU have with the welds and blow through.
I just bought my first welder, and looking through all the flux core vids. yours is great, as you were also a "flux" beginner and so your instruction/info was very good from a professional point of view.
Part of the heat issues with the flux core is the reversed polarity that it requires. Reversing it puts the heat into the work piece instead of putting it into the wire.
CBC
Flux core has most of the heat in the substrate (metal being welded), so it is FAR easier to blow through. Compared to solid, that "opposite polarity" also means "opposite adjustment". Voltage sets your penetration, feed sets your heat. That "pop, pop, buzz" is saying "low voltage, too much wire". Had you kept your first voltage setting, and turned down the feed til that disappeared, my bet is your results would have improved markedly
Edit: but yeah, 22 ga and flux is tightrope walking even for an "old hand". It CAN be done, but it needs perfect technique and conditions, or you plummet to your doom, lol. Your normal setup (0.023 and gas) is walking a beam (you still need to mind your steps, but it doesn't need perfection every foot fall)
Never thought of that. Good tip
Excellent tuition Fitzee. Thanks a million for sharing your knowledge.
This is the best video i have seen for a very long time. Thank you !!! I was trying to figure out why my welds were rubbish - i will start using the proper wire.
You rock Fitzy !!!
FWIW, if you beat a chunk of copper pipe flat and use it as a backer, it'll absorb the heat and help a LOT with the burn thru issues.
Obviously, not something you can do in every body work situation..
Been using .30 flux on my project, not much experience welding but I've learned that minimum setting works best. It's mostly 18g sheet metal and it has tested my patience but the results are ok, dont like the splatter though, makes extra work. Would love a mig but spending money on other parts instead.
It was mentioned above that for flux core you need to reverse your polarity. This greatly reduces spatter.
What a great way to explain the difference between gas and fluxcored welding..I’m in the process of buying a mig to weld panels in a tractor cab and this has been a great lesson. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I really appreciate explaining the guages of metal and sizes of wire. This should help a lot of people. Not many explain this... another good video from the east coast.. a lot of work but thank you very much !
I use .30" flux core for body work. 22 ga is tricky, but a trick that I learned is to remove the nozzle because the flux is in the wire. So by doing that you're not holding as much heat in that space and it makes it easier to see where you're welding.
Great video sir!
One of the best videos on wielding for beginners I’ve seen. Start with a good wielder and and good teachers like you and a lots of practice you can do it to.
I've been using .030 with my gas Lincoln 100 mig and have never been happy with my welds. Lots of grinding needed. I filled up my Amazon cart with .023 wire and tips before your video even ended. Thanks for the great tips! You are the best teacher out there for auto body rust repair! Thank you!
Thank you Tony, I only have flux core now as I don't have a garage to work in and it does take a lot more patience to use the flux core. I love your method of cut -n- butt, I have been able to use it with the flux core and you are right, the tighter the gap the better. I used gas for years and the very first time I used flux core I couldn't believe how dirty it was, the clean up is big. It took a lot of practice to get half good at welding sheet metal, please keep up the videos to teach us old dogs new tricks or to remind us of the ones that we forgot!
A lot of the additional heat going into the metal comes more from the change of polarity than anything else. DC reverse polarity tends to focus the bulk of the heat into the base metal while DC straight moves the heat to the electrode (wire).
A glove? What’s next a welding helmet? 😂😂😂
This one instructional has answered MANY of my questions about why my flux-core welding on my truck is so frustrating! Thank you!!
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thank you for taking the time to demonstrate and share the reality of automotive sheet metal welding.
Just swapped my welder over to 0.6 and going to get a hobbyweld bottle tomorrow. This video was really confidence inspiring, thanks so much. Also I loved your hybrid metric / imperial language and the Irish/canadian accent. Very easy watching!
Thanks. Just starting MIG after only DIY stick welding for many years on my farm. You helped my understanding of what's happening when I MIG weld.
Great video, just purchased a Clarke 135TE gas welder to work on my mustang, came with 0.6mm and from watching lots of videos, they all say 0.8. You video has made it very clear for me ... cheers pal
Great video as usual fixing to tackle replacing quarter patches on my wife's chevelle tomorrow. I run the 023 with argon. Thanks again for the info
Really good demo/experiment and saved us all the expenses of buying 3 different wires too. Thanks 👍👏👏
Thanks a lot I’ve learned so much by watching your videos! Your explanations and demonstrations are priceless. Semper Fi
Wow I’m so glad I watched this. I was loosing my mind trying to weld in patch panels on the floor of buddies Altima with .030 thanks you so much for this Chanel I’ve have learned so much from you cheers
Great teaching video, nobody by me uses flux core wire so glad that you tried it . Thanks.
Hey, Tony, thx for the comparison vid. Lotsa work for you, BUT...lotsa great info for us!
Wow , someone I can really understand!Thanks for sheding light on the 100% co2and technique.Your my go-to guy for now on!
Totally no BS, great info from a real experienced craftsman . Love the accent !!!!
Man! I wish I came across this video before buying Flux Core Wire. I am specifically trying patch panel repair on a '63 C10. I am glad I haven't started yet. I am going to wait until I can get some gas. Great content!
Thanks so much for making this video. Getting ready to patch up my pickup, watched a ton of your stuff and I had been hoping for this exact video. Looks like we’re using.023 gas.
You spent a lot of time producing this video. Thank you. It is appreciated!
I stumbled upon your videos when I was looking for tips on welding in some replacement panels on a rusted fender. you got a gold mine of info on this CZcams channel and you’re broadcasting from the rock.! Of course I’m going to subscribe.🤣👍👍👍
thx for showing a newbie just how different panel and structural welding are. looks like they are suited best for each application
Fitzee thank you for this video. I am a hobby builder and have gone back and forth on this decision. I have used mostly flux wire due to the investment in the gas. The struggles you are having are similar to the struggles i am having and i feel that this is possibly what i am struggling with and just not aware of it due to the other option i have not chosen to take. I think you have convinced me to just do it and get the gas and smaller wire. Again thank you for the video. Makes me want to pay and go for it to get a better product.
Thank you Tony for sharing your time and experience;that all who watch learn from a master such as yourself;l truly enjoy watching you and learning from your experience.l am blessed.
Fritzee, I've enjoyed every video that you have made and I had the opportunity to watch. I use .023 wire for most everything that I weld and I learned what I was doing wrong by seeing how you weld thin metal. I can burn holes with the best of them. Your techniques have been very enlightening. I'm going to practice until I can mimic the success that you have achieved. It's going to be challenging but at least you have given me a go-by. Thanks for your teaching and keep making those marvelous videos. Take care.
This was most helpful, thank you! I'm a beginner at this body work and I sure have learned a lot from you! Love the videos!
Thank you so very much for this video! Lifted my confidence way up high using a cheap two-step flux welder once or twice a year. :)
And to all the great comments from other people. Thank you!
perfect comment
Experience and insight is invaluable! That is all. Thanks Fitzee.
Nice work! Answered all my questions about welding sheet metal…
Great video with lots of info for us beginner welders. Although I have been welding for 30 years off and on I am by no means a pro. I have never used flux core wire, but will start using it this summer outside. I started with a gas welder and always used it outdoors and the odd time in a garage when I had small welding projects. I go through a lot of gas and need to schedule when to weld outdoors according to the weatherman and that's a real pain in the arse. Great info on using the flux core, and for the welding projects I am working on require the welder settings to be high as the steal is usually 3/16" to 1/4" thick. The .023 wire I have always used works well and after watching this video, I will shut the gas off and go flux core for outdoor welding. Thanks again for all the great information.
Hi Fitz! I came into welding with arc first. And like you said… flux is something you don’t wanna bead sheet metal with. For sure. The one very similar thing I noticed though with the arc and flux is the cleanup and splatter where Mig seems a lot cleaner. I’ve never used Mig yet, but watching you’re comparisons, price is the only thing stopping me from going to Mig considering the time I’d actually be welding year round. I have gotten to the point where the constant cleaning can be frustrating using various types of wire brushes (hand, angle grinder, amd drill bit brushes) to speed up the cleaning… where I’ve considered a lot to just take the plunge on a Mig welder.. but again the amount of time I’d be actually welding sheet metal doesn’t justify the cost. This again As most of your videos, is a very clear amd concise walkthrough. Thanks for putting in the time for us.
Also, because you’re video is made for us CZcams videos and is family friendly… I can only imagine the swears you either had to edit out or were spouting in your head when you were fluxing that butt patch! Lord knows I’ve been
Don't know if you will see my comment, given this video is about a year old, but I want you to know that I've learned more from you about welders and welding than I have from the several others I've watched. THANK YOU!!! So glad I happened to find your channel! I'll be looking for more from you. You do such a great job teaching and explaining...I do appreciate that. Please keep up the great videos! God bless.
Very informative. I don't use flux core just because of the cleanup involved. I still have my ancient arc welder for the heavier stuff, but my old Millermatic 135 with .023 wire and gas is a gem for the light stuff. Thanks Tony for another great video!
Great video, another good tutorial. I'm new at this and a hobbyist to boot. Thank you.
A big amen to you Tony I thought you were going to like the flux core and then the cold hard reality set in with the cut and but demo. Thanks for helping guys who don't know
This video was an absolute blessing. I'm exactly the guy you're talking about, bought a flux core welder to learn the basics of sheet metal work then got frustrated by all of the blow through. I just got to the point where I'm going to try again but this time with MIG gas and the 6mm wire. Wish me luck!!!
You won't know what hit you. Total different setup
I'm not a professional welder, but I have done several projects with both flux core and solid MIG with co2/ar. I have been able to fill quite large gaps with flux core, albeit with thicker material.
It's critical to keep the surface clean, which means grinding off the slag frequently.
I had to sell off my MIG when we moved recently, and I just bought a flux core machine for body work on a truck I just bought. I'm hopeful, but not looking forward to chipping slag.
I do remember the first night I switched to MIG, and it was a hallelujah moment. So clean!
I'm very much enjoying your videos. It's amazing what you're able to re-create with such simple tools and plain sheet steel.
Not only is this a great video (and it really is) but i ALSO learned so much just reading the comments as well! I have a miller 420 using argon/co2 as well as a cheap harbor freight mig using flux core wire. Now i understand so much more about when to use which welding machine. Thank you ALL !
I hate flux core wire! I tried using it and could not! This makes me feel better knowing you and a lot of others have had the same issue as I did! Great video and thanks for your time!