Wait, We JUST Banned Asbestos?
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
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Amphibole asbestos has been (mostly) illegal in the United States since 1989. So why is the EPA just banning chrysotile asbestos in the year 2024? And is chrysotile really safer?
CORRECTION - there were some mistakes in the credits for this episode, so here are those corrected credits:
Hosted by: Savannah Geary (they/them)
Writer: Keren Turton
Script Editor: Alex Billow
Fact Checker: Kelly Hills
Script Supervisor: Bill Mead
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Sources:
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Asbestos should definitely be the poster child for "just because it's natural, doesn't mean it's good"
so true :D
Same can be said for a lot of elements tbh
Mercury is natural. Lead is natural. Arsenic is natural...
snake venom is natural
Uranium is natural
What will I eat as my midday snack now :(
You should start eating radium clock hands, they are much healthier
plutonium I hear is tasty
@@AaronGeoI’ve heard it’s even better to lick the paintbrushes you paint the hands with
It's the bestos after all.
@@Chaotic-Toast mmmmm radium
I am a CO state certified building inspector for Asbestos and just an FYI (Canada and Mexico still produce asbestos materials today) and they are commonly shipped into the USA, ERGO its NOT subject to USA manufacturing requirements.... I tested a house built in 2019 and it had asbestos in everything I inspected....(rare honestly but IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN). Military paints can also still be produced with asbestos for certain applications as well. ON ANOTHER NOTE ...as you heard in here beginning presentation Asbestos is NATURALLY OCCURRING...for MANY years the regulation (in CO its Regulation 8 Part B) stipulated manufacturing could NOT ADD (+) asbestos to a manufactured materials....but if it occurs NATURALLY in gypsum mining for wall texture or drywall for example then they technically didn't break the regulation.........they didn't add it was there already.......naturally.....VERY VERY COMMON...... This is why Colorado tests are not based on the age of the home....but the Sqft of impacted materials....... I hope this was insightful to someone....Stay safe out there ppl.
I feel like military equipment makers probably get to do whatever works best cheapest going off of what I've seen
Thanks for this
The connection between asbestos and mesothelioma was discovered and researched a hundred years ago in the UK. There's not enough lipstick in the world to make this deadly pig look good.
@@colonagray2454IIRC, there are laws requiring that the military goes with the lowest bidder (to some extent). Might have something to do with it.
@matthewchandler7845 if you don't mind me asking, how do you test for asbestos in those cases where it is a gypsum impurity? I'm assuming the impurities would be too small to be seen with the naked eye. Thanks for the insight!
Here in the U.K. it’s been banned for over 25 years but turns up in places you wouldn’t expect like textured white paint for ceilings.
👁️👄👁️ well at least your ceiling won't catch fire 😂
@@Catastropheshe next doors outdoor barn and porch are clad with 1/4 inch thick asbestos sheets,, our old porch used to be clad with it also..
And everyone freaks out about it like it's Plutonium.
As per first sentence of this video, problems come from industrial exposure to asbestos.. as in working with it every day for years.
@@incandescentwithrageor living with it every day for years. Sure, dust is the major issue, but you're always going to have some, and avoiding contact with carcinogens that are relatively easily avoided just seems like not a bad idea.
@@incandescentwithragereal story A guy in the UK decided he would replace his garage as the old one was made from asbestos sheeting. By the end of the summer he had a lovely new garage. By the end of autumn he had mesothelioma and he died four days before Christmas.
Don’t underestimate how deadly exposure to asbestos can be.
I removed asbestos for a living. If you want a good look at it the snow scene in The wizard of Oz was asbestos.
That is horrifying
That is horrifying
HAHAH Dorthy was a SMOKER too.......WHEW!!!! probs everyone was back then..also they probs smokes cigarettes with Asbestos filters build into them... google it... it was REAL!!!!
I heard that too, i think it was Amosite if i’m not mistaking
@@shelby6 AND the main protagonist was CONSANTLY on meth or molly... and got molested after filming.
The Tin men need to go to the hospital because of the poison in the paint he used.
As a brake design engineer, the older engineers told me about asbestos's properties as a brake pad material. It was a miracle material. It had a high coefficient of friction, high heat tolerance, and very little wear. We've stopped using Asbestos in the 80's, and all brake pad material research since then has been unable to produce anything as good as Asbestos.
Ceramic pads are pretty darn good. You're telling me asbestos pads are better? If so, how is it that newer cars have way shorter stopping distances than older cars? I'm curious.
@@AlexandarHullRichterlarger brakes, and abs
Manufacturers beefed up the pads because of the mass of modern vehicles. Plus better tire design. Not a fan of cars but the engineering is interesting.@@AlexandarHullRichter
@@AlexandarHullRichteran additional explanation is that newer cars are generally lighter.
Ceramic brakes need time to heat up or they do not work, they are more durable but for everyday normal they cannot stop as good as a normal brake pad when cold.
When I was a freshman in highschool (2005-6) my geology textbook said asbestos was basically harmless because the cells in your lungs would 'wall it off,' rendering it harmless. Walling it off being a cute term for creating a lot of scar tissue. I knew then that my textbook was bunk, which coincided with the fact that the geology teacher was also not very good.
the walling off is literally what kills you 😂😂😂
Weird. I was a freshman in 09, and I think we knew some middle school asbestos was bad. Maybe later that it was a fibrous rock
How old was your text book. I graduated long before that and we new perfectly well back then.
When geology textbook sponsored by asbestos manufacturer.
@@jerbear7952Some textbooks are just straight up bad. The version of the US Civil War that is told in textbooks is not remotely close to the consensus opinion of actual historians active since the 80s
Back in the previous century I worked for a city in Illinois. The high school had a summer break project to remove asbestos. Made sense considering possible exposure to the students. Turns out the contractor hired a bunch of students to work on the crew removing the stuff.
Lol.
I guess they didn't educate them about safe sanitation practices either...
Who else works for less than minimum wage and is small enough to crawl in all those tight places? Sounds like a win-win-win situation to me!
"Mercury. It was mercury" had me rofling
I laughed... so hard !
Yess indeed xDD
Again nothing wrong with using mercury if it is being used correctly.
mercury < asbestos < teflon (with PFAS) at least it's getting LESS harmful?
@@eklectiktoni Are we sure teflon is less harmful?
The issue is that theres a ton of asbestos thats been used in buildings, especially older buildings. Like I literally just got done seeing a house I was wanting to rent and they had the laundry in the basement with asbestos pipe insulation directly overhead. For the record that wasnt a deal breaker but I wanted to know that the landlord, also a resident of the building, was aware and was planning on doing something about it; they weren't on both accounts and we were turned down for asking. The issue primarily is that whether it's safe to encapsulate or it needs to be removed is only able to be handled on a case by case basis, and it costs an arm and a leg to get rid of. Just the 10 yards of pipe insulation in the basement of the house we wanted to rent would've cost thousands of dollars in abatement costs and it'd still be in the house and would need to be declared if it ever sold. Not all asbestos is bad however, i grew up in a home where the siding was asbestos tiles, assuming we didnt make a habit of destroying them for fun we were safe because those things are really freaking strong.
Asbestos really is a miracle material, it's just such a shame it's trying to kill us.
intact asbestos is safe. Its only when it becomes friable (loose) that it is even remotely dangerous. it is acceptable to cover or wrap it without removing in most cases.
The house we bought was built in the 50s and had asbestos tiles in the basement. This is common in houses built before the 70s. We were assured they were safe as long as we didn’t smash the tiles, but my partner wanted to get rid of them anyway. Thankfully, it was relatively cheap to do since they’re just tiles. You could hear the loud popping whenever they’d remove a tile from outside. And then those abatement guys will be able to sue for asbestos exposure and continue the cycle.
turn their asses in to your local gov btw
The pipe insulation is one of the worst forms too.
@@ferretyluv I'm an accredited asbestos inspector and site supervisor in South Carolina, Minnesota, and a few other states that I won't mention to avoid giving away too much personal information.It's highly unlikely that the abatement guys will sue for asbestos exposure. When you become an accredited asbestos worker, you're trained to follow OSHA 1926.1101, which provides adequate safety against airborne asbestos fibers during removal. It would kind of be like saying "I had to clean up a biohazard, so I wore a HAZMAT suit, but I was exposed to the biohazard." Technically true, but it's very unlikely you'll suffer any of the ill effects, you know?
Just because something is SAFER doesn't mean it's safe. Surely that's obvious?
right but you only get so many cost effective options.
Corporations who do this sort of thing don't care about it being safe, only establishing the false pretense that is safe because it is safer than an alternative
NOTHING is completely safe. But some things are much more dangerous than others. Exposed asbestos is pretty dangerous.
Sure but that applies to everything. Nothing is truly safe. Not even air or water. So yes "safer" is relevant. You simply have to properly plan, design, educate, and train to mitigate as many factors as possible.
Less obvious than you might think. There’s a large number of people who insist that a thing can only ever be safe or not safe, and that safe and safer are perfect synonyms.
Asbestos is not the only naturally occurring material that poses a serious risk to those working with it. The artisans who worked on the Rushmore Memorial all died young from silicosis. This is a manageable risk, those working with any material be it cutting or grinding it to dust MUST wear a properly fitted mask.I said "sny" because we simply don't know the risk of inhaling anything other than clean air.
we better make all the sand and rocks and statues illegal
SNY?
Silicosis has killed many hard rock miners in the past, and is now killing people in the engineered stone industry due to poor dust suppression. But nobody else
Asbestos is killing people still now unfortunately due to it simply existing in our society. It is a terrible legacy 😢
@@mirzaahmed6589 Took me a few more reads to realize that was a typo for "any".
Flesh is weak, machine is alright, and we need something better eventually,
The true solution would be stem celling replace everything every 5 years lol
I am getting "barely contained rage" vibes from this presentation and I am here for it.
Aren't we all... I'm thinking of all the times I've been exposed to asbestos, and people doing stupid things with it.
It was used to lag the pipes in a building where I worked, and for weeks I walked under one pipe that was being stripped of asbestos lagging.
Another time, an angry competitor (loser) began kicking the walls of the sport's centre changing rooms. I came into that centre for tea breaks/change work clothes/clock in and out - while tufts of asbestos lagging was hanging out of the wall, people 'still' using the changing rooms, the council taking forever to get round to fixing it.
A garden centre - two lads cutting up asbestos sheets in windy conditions, with a circular saw.
Went to view a house around 25 years ago. The massive workshop out back - all asbestos sheets. The extension - all asbestos board and sheet. The drainpipes and downpipes - all asbestos.
My former neighbour's stupid teenage son - took an axe to the old asbestos sheet chicken house, smashed it into little pieces, where it stayed for a while until the mother picked up what she could see - which, of course, means she never picked up what fibres she couldn't see.
Farmers around here casually dump asbestos sheets they don't want into the main river.
If the government of any country allows asbestos removal to be put out to private contract, and those contractors then make removal so ridiculously expensive because they in turn have to pay special fees for it to be disposed of - then people will dump it.
There's probably loads blowing around every city/town dump and landfill site.
And I used to live next door to a notoriously badly managed landfill site.
it's called sensationalizing. all the young kids are into it.
@@harpsealSF And so is nearly everyone else.
I am getting "have never said anything original" vibe from this comment and I am here for it
Mmmhm.
Since asbestos is natural and can be weathered out of the ground, has there been research done to see if any animals living in asbestos rich areas have any anti-asbestos adaptations we can steal? Maybe an enzyme that breaks down asbestos or those "immune freak-out" carcinogens? As another commenter pointed out, the fact that it comes out of the ground suggests we need a bigger solution.
The main problem is the permanence in the lungs, and its nasty tendency to break out of the biological fibers its encapsulated in and keep damaging lung tissue. Also, whichever site that has fibrosis loses its capacity for gas Exchange..
Blue asbestos (amosite) is the straight version, and it's very sharp. Breaking it down just makes more sharps bits. White asbestos (the curly stuff) is considered "safer" because it doesn't do that as much.
Not to mention tissue damage, irritation, and foreign materials create inflammation. And excess inflammation can cause cancer.
I'm guessing their lifespan makes their exposure level not such a big deal.
@@joshmnkyThe old selection shadow at work.
My brother had mesothelioma. We have suspicions where he was exposed. I wouldn't wish that disease on anyone.
I have a chrysotile cabochon in my dangerous rocks collection. Did you know there was a city in Quebec called Asbestos, whose name was changed to Val Des Sources in 2016 to rid the negative connotations. This all reminds me of the history of lead. It's been known for at least centuries, possibly millennia thar lead was dangerous, yet the reason it stuck around so long is because nothing is as good as lead at what it does. Especially in paint. You will never get a more vibrant paint using a titanium or bismith base as you will with a lead base. I'm not saying it's right, but it’s why.
Sound like Quebec. They'd do that kind of thing. Meanwhile Swastika, Ontario still going strong.
I had a quick look for Asbestos Canada, it's crazy that people still live there, given it was a giant asbestos mine. It must be super contaminated there. Honestly seems irresponsible to rename it, what if some poor unsuspecting tourist goes there and gets mesothelioma? They should have shut the whole town down.
There’s a town in Russia still named “Асбест”, or “Asbest” for its asbestos industry, and as far as I know it still produces asbestos for use by nations around the world.
@@katherinebotand the people there all believe it is completely safe. The dangerous thing, in their mind, is "capitalist pigs."
Let's not forget the most shocking use for asbestos: cigarette filters.
One company, Kent cigarettes used asbestos for filters.
I wonder how that went?
Honestly the asbestos filter was still probably less cancerous than the cigarette 💀
It went too well (for the cigarette company). The asbestos “over filtered” the cigarette, making it more like breathing air, so nobody bought them.
@@ShadowEclipse777it definitely wasn’t, crocidolite asbestos that was used in cigarette filters is orders of magnitude more likely to cause cancer than cigarettes, and mesothelioma is a more aggressive cancer than small cell carcinoma.
"it kills you now AND later!"
They probably figured the smoke would kill you faster.
0:33 "I can't be the only one who remembers those ads"
Me, having _just watched_ a Legal Eagle: "Hmm... sounds familiar"
Any time there is a product that is known to be dangerous but is continually produced anyway, the answer is money.
It's always money. Every time.
Or lack of alternatives
capitalism moment
It's often lack of alternatives or simply overwhelmingly superior performance. There was a mercury switch in my thermostat in a rental duplex I was in. Had been there since knob and tube wiring and functioned quite well. It worked well because it was an optimal design given the knowledge of the time and, arguably, is superior to modern implementations of the same, as those will fail long before that mercury switch will in its designed application.
Nature is a bit cruel. Lead is an absolutely amazing material in terms of chemistry and physics. In biology... It likes to replace calcium and become deadly.
Asbestos is an excellent insulator and fire retardant. That is why it was used and only recently have there been materials which can touch it in terms of performance, and even then....
As my dad used to say when I asked him why something was banned: "because it worked."
While that is a cynical view, and he recognized the risks associated with those materials, many of those newer materials to replace them were banned for similar reasons - which reinforces the idea that nothing should be seen as safe and should always be handled with regard for consequences.
And ... Ultimately, one has to ask whether or not our vision of safety is moral. For example, let's say that lead perovskites could form the basis of a battery or related power storage/conversion technology which would realize an economical means to implement "smart grids" and dispersed power generation (be it solar, wind, or micro nuclear/fusion). Is it ethical to look at such an outcome and grow squeamish because lead is a core component?
I live in Missouri, abandoned lead mines are everywhere - lead mining is not without its toll and even with precautions, there will be the inevitable errors, abuses, etc which occur at some scale.
Right now, a lead apatite derived material is demonstrating signs of one dimensional room temperature superconductivity. It's a confusing time because everyone has a big head, but the results are reproducible and computer models back up the idea there is something going on in this lead based crystal to keep looking into.
If lead turns out to be the key to room temperature superconductors, is it moral to say "but it's toxic" and bury it behind law?
Personally, I don't think so. Our ancestors got us to where we are by taking risks, staring into the sun, etc.
That said, lead fuels were certainly an example of what to seek to prevent. There's a difference between accepting the management of risk and denying the risk. Denying risk comes in two forms - the familiar one where everyone pretends there is no risk, and the just as common, but more discrete form where no risk is accepted.
capitalism is the death of humanity
Like Covid vaccines?
My grandfather used to talk about wrapping pipes in asbestos back in the late 60’s. Yet he wondered why he had COPD 😬
My dad probably did too 😮
I grew up in buildings in the 1990s that still had asbestos wrapped pipes.
@@Toadaboticus Many buildings still do. It's not a hazard until it's removed - then you have to bring in remediators.
Still have thousands of old asbestos cement water pipes in use in water reticulation, which is a really good reason to have a good filter on the drinking water supply to your house.
@@TroIIingThemSoftly Yes still plenty of "temporary" prefab buildings all around, which are still there a century later on. They in many cases outlived the permanent structures built afterwards, and are still in use today. Even more fun is that some are declared monuments, so you cannot demolish them, cannot remove the asbestos, and also cannot use them either.
I absolutely remember those commercials, they were on SO often when I was a kid
They are still on today. If you watch local channels that show old shows during the day, it's the exact same commercials for mesothelioma lawyers and Medicare enrollment.
As someone from an asbestos rust belt town, theres no excuses for using the stuff, there are still people alive today that are getting cancer from it and the town covered up the history and even put out no news of there being money that the people in town with cancer could claim in a short time window
No excuse at all? Quite an extremist stance.
You know, people are daily dying from exposure to electricity... Let's ban it...
It is always a calculation of risk vs. reward... How good is it vs. how harmful it is.
Saying there is no excuse sounds childish, because we make that risk/reward analysis with most tech every day.
Appalling but sadly not surprising.
@@SioxerNikita "asbestos is bad and should be banned" is the opposite of an extremist view, tf are you on about? XD
@@Jitterbuck It is an extremist view, because bananas can kill people. Are bananas bad? There are uses for asbestos, so just banning them is extremist.
@@SioxerNikita Bananas aren't fukkin asbestos bud XD
Banning or restricting of extremely harmful materials isn't extremism or oppression :p
Another interesting program in the US has been using asbestos for a while: Solid rocket motors, especially for the SLS. During the shuttle years, asbestos was used as a liner for the SRBs, as its fibrous texture is really good for keeping the fuel grain inside the motor, both during transportation and operation. I know about 6 years back there was a team working on a replacement, and they were making some good progress, so maybe that's fixed now, but for a long time NASA had a special dispensation for asbestos use specifically for the SRBs
In our defense, we probably didn't do more about Asbestos for so long because we're measurable dumber from all the lead in gasoline. 🙄😞
Actually this ^, chemical engineers really have had outsized influence on the course of recent history if you think about it…
Add to that how much dumber we all are from the higher CO2 levels!
@@brianwelch1579 Not one iota.
@@brianwelch1579or just from reading miserable takes in the comments
@@Sonny_McMacsson Actually high CO2 levels do make you dumber. Needs to be 3-4 times higher than current levels though, and that's easily achieved by having long meetings in small rooms with people who just go on and on and on... Now you know why so many companies make dumb decisions!
What am I going to mix with my parmesan cheese now to give it that extra kick and keep it from clumping or spontaneously combusting?
Your parmesan cheese was doing WHAT now?
@@callmevbuck4054Classic parmesan behaviour
Is spontaneously combusting Parmesan cheese a regular problem for you?
@@lmostWait, that ISN'T a problem for you?!
@@nonasuomi282 Nope, can’t say it is. You might wanna switch to a different brand, friend.
So, imagine how long it is going to take to control the micro plastic situation. 🤔
Never, we will never control it it is too deep in the world now. Even if we eliminate all plastic use now. It would take the release of bacteria that can digest it (there are some but they are not fast), world wide and who knows what problems that will cause.
I currently throw plastic in the garbage so it doesn't end up in the ocean or a 3rd world landfill with no regulations. Only 10% thats collected is recycled anyways.
@@nikkiewhite476 COMMON NATURE!!!! FIND A WAY DAMNITTT!@!!!!
The PFAS one mentioned in the video too, which can be from the chemical breakdown of some of those. Replaces fatty acids, and thus can have a negative effect on fertility. Basically the little swimmers needed to make more animals end up starting out with a dead battery.
I didn't realize there were different types of asbestos, it was just called asbestos when I was on the Constellation. We were just told if the outerlayer of the lagging was broken, don't touch it because all lagging was to be assumed to be asbestos since nobody actually knew with ships that were 40 years old which insulation was asbestos and which wasn't since she'd been through a lot of SRA's over her lifetime.
Basically 3 types. Blue is the straight sharp nasty stuff, white is the curly not-quite-as-bad stuff, and brown somewhere in the middle. If you're poking around and see something that looks like dryer lint, stop poking it. That's the blue stuff.
Now, let's deal with lead water pipes all over the country.
I see your lead pipes and raise you asbestos pipes
Where are you that they have asbestos water pipes. I rum into asbestos sewers once in awhile. But leads water piping an every other day occurance. (Im on the east coast)
I don't entirely understand some of the more strict bans. Like absolutely; asbestos has no place being used in 99% of applications and people should be kept separate from it; but that other 0.01% of applications probably should be regulated for safety rather than banned. As an example I could see a chemically modified asbestos being used as a catalyst for a chemical reaction; likely candidates include medicines and fuel. Now, that usage should be limited and not cause exposure, but banning a naturally occurring and common rock makes less sense than banning willful exposure of people to that rock.
I am actually concerned a lot of other materials like fiberglass, carbon nanotubes, carbon fiber composites will be found to have similar problems.
The issue with this "0.01 % of application that need it" still need an industry to support them. And we haven't found a way to mine this stuff that doesn't mean the workers will slowly destroy their lungs. Just because now only 100 Workers get lung cancer instead of 100.000 doesn't mean these guys have a particularly good time.
We would need a hazardous material procedure to mine and process the material, do a complete decontamination for each and every step and process, put the workers in plastic suits for every work step to ensure the safety and then repeat the process whenever a part or subassembly containing the asbestos is worked on.
At this point, the alternatives become economically viable, and the usage of asbestos is no longer feasable. So why ban it? To prevent those with financial interest (speak old investments) to try to muddy the strict guidelines or find workarounds to get profits at the cost of the health of the workers. That's why.
@@GermanTopGameTV We definitely do have sufficient skills in PPE to mine the stuff on the teeny scale that may needed. It also could be chemically synthesized instead. In the past year the US imported around 100 tons of the stuff. I am suggestion wording the regulation so that less than 10 tons worldwide are used per year, primarily for small scale laboratory usage as standards for exposure monitoring. The rest would only be for use in extreme niche situations. The cost would go up a lot as well as the difficulty of getting the permit to be involved.
In the end the market should be in general be killed back so much that it's not really an industry. This is not enough of an engagement to do more than support a small number of highly skilled workers with gear to handle the material. This is very different than former uses where the stuff got plastered everywhere as a fire retardant or insulation.
Another important consideration is that asbestos is an environmental hazard that is not unique to artificial environments. Continued monitoring and development will require some hazardous materials handling and sensing expertise.
We already know fiberglass sticks in your skin so... Well actually Iunno, cause that's actually a lot bigger than your alveoli 🤔
I'm just waiting for the same treatment to be applied to carbon nanotubes as they have the exact same danger potential as asbestos.
I'm loving the delivery on this one. Never thought I'd be this entertained by a video about asbestos
My high school was riddled with asbestos. Unfortunately for us, the district didnt thinknit was a big deal despite there being holes in the walls thanks to some fights. This was like 10 years ago for reference. It'd be interesting to see how many of us end up getting cancer and suing the district, and if we would even have a case.
Honestly, this sounds like a class action lawsuit that should have already happened. I hope the former students who did end up getting diagnosed with mesothelioma later can get justice.
I hope you were exposed to just enough to be eligible for a fat check but not enough to do any damage 😂
@HadenBlake I'd have to look into it, actually. It was built in the late 60s/early 70s if I remember right and was recently torn down due to the asbestos. Time to do some digging lol.
It has to be airborne to do damage.
@@abigalanderson7494 He did say there were holes from fight so the chance it got airborne is not zero
There are 3 other regulated amphiboles as well as multiple non-regulated amphiboles, most famously from Libby MT.
Here in Australia, one of our former Deputy Prime Ministers spent 20yrs fighting compensation for mesothelioma suffers who were affected by "Mr Fluffy" asbestos spray insulation. She deserved the noose for all the victims who died before a settlement was met, not a ministerial position in parliament.
There is still a town here in Western Australia that is a no go zone called Wittenoom. It was an asbestos mining town that was purpose built to house workers and families. Last I checked in about 2015 it was blacked out on Google Maps.
In my Google Maps, I even have Street View (from 2008) of that town, nothing blacked out.
Good news is, the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show a median latency of forty-four point six years, so if you're thirty or older, you're laughing. Worst case scenario, you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.
I read this in Cave Johnson's voice
"chlorine is essential for drinking water"
the Netherlands: you sure about that?
Mexico has entered the chat lol
essential was probably the wrong word, "strongly recommended" is probably better, im not a fan of getting cholera, and without chlorine in the water, it (sometimes) grow bacteria that cause severe infections
The whole of the EU: you sure about that?
(Yes yes i know there are countries that use it, but still, you can drink straight from the tap in basically any EU country)
Here in Germany, you might hear that they will temporarily put chlorine in the water if it's contaminated but other than that we have pretty much among the safest and cleanest drinking water in the world and it's relatively cheap at like 5€/m³ (1000liters/~264US Gal) it can be more expensive depending on where you live tho.
@@LastWish90 not all water in the USA is chlorinated either, it's based on the source, water from lakes and streams tend to get chlorinated pretty hard compared to groundwater or post-treatment water, it's easier to always chlorinate high risk water rather than wait for contamination to add chlorine.
I'm interested to know if this effects industrial talc. Talc goes in and out of fashion for use in raw ceramics as a filler and is mined near asbestos. We use ppe when talc has the possibility of becoming airborne in bulk, but it's difficult to know how concerned to be about it as an occupational hazard.
My brother died at age 53 from it. Six months after he started getting symptoms, he was dead. It was a horrific death and I can think of few worse ways to die. His lungs kept collapsing due to fluid buildup, severe blood clots in the legs causing them to swell horribly. It’s a very horrible way to die.
Its such a shame its so dangerous because its a pretty damn useful product.
Like lead. Abundant, easy to mine, so many use cases. But so very incompatible with humans.
Glad they haven't find any problem with iron. Yet.
My brother had a rock like this from Connecticut. We pulled it apart for fun. We were 13 yo. It was 1977
Do you guys have any lung issues😮?
i had one too. came in some kind of collection of 10 different rocks. to go with my chemistry set (im sure that was dangerous too) early to mid 70's. yes it was fun to pull apart.
i bought a souvenir as a kid at the science center. it was asbestos rock in a little plastic box that flipped open. i used to play with it and pull it apart a bit . about the same age but about 1973.
@@casjean8904 yup
I received a starter rock collection as a kid in the 60's. It came with samples of maybe a dozen different minerals, including a little swatch of woven asbestos fabric/yarn. I can still remember how it felt heavy and cool to the touch.
My uncle got mesothelium from doing duct work in a hospital that had asbestos, died in that same hospital just over a month after diagnosis. It was brutal, it destroyed his body so fast. It is a horrible substance.
My grade school had portables that got torn down b/c of asbestos, 2 years in a row I had to goto class all day in them and both years, I had horrible pneumonia, it could have been a coincidence but who knows. That 2nd year about half the class had respiratory issues, so maybe it wasn't just a coincidence.
Fortunately, if you recovered, it's likely due to other Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) issues than an asbestos-related disease. You'd know if you had lung cancer or mesothelioma (because you'd be symptomatic and probably dead by now), so that leaves asbestosis. It's classified as a scarring of the lungs due to asbestosis specifically, and it's permanent damage; if you got asbestosis when you were young (very highly unlikely, the latency period is around 10 years) then you would have a consistent level of sickness from then to now. If you recovered, you're very likely in the clear.
As a Canadian I breathe in (and hopefully out) approximately 1 Million Asbestos Fibers per Year.
You cannot Ban the Dirt that You Walk On. Asbestos is Natural and will Always be With Us. Especially in Canada.
Great video! Loved the ad gag, great editing, love the stage! This channel only gets better as the years go by❤️
I'm watching this in a room lined with asbestos cement wall sheeting.
The house was built in Sydney, Australia, 1961, when this type of
building material was very popular.
The kitchen, bathroom and laundry have this sheeting, and the garage is
clad in it too.
The asbestos is probably not a danger until the house is demolished,
when qualified people should remove and dispose of it safely.
I'm glad you're safe but most wouldn't
It is such a huge pain to get rid of. It will probably still gonna take a couple decades till it's all gone from buildings here in Europe. I guess just one more expensive problem young generations inherit from the previous ones...
Don't worry, young generations will create their own problems to take the vacant space
Some military aircraft jet turbines use silicone and asbestos materials in gaskets in the hot section. I've seen folks scatter when one disintegrated in a *poof* and everyone went on Medical Surveillance.
and, there are a few things worse than Asbestos.
Great initiative and comprehensive information provided on the issues surrounding asbestos and its overdue ban. Finding safe alternatives is indeed a challenge but it's encouraging to see advancements made in this direction.
My dad died of mesothelioma here in the UK, he would have contracted it in 1980s when it still hadn't beeb banned, thankfully it has now.
Brake pads? Asphalt? Plastic? Pfft I'm never around those 😬
for whatever it's worth, the main danger in those products is to the people making them. once asbestos is sealed in a material like plastic or asphalt, or whatever, where it can't become airborne, it's no longer dangerous.
I don't drive on public roads either.
I was reading the manual for my 99 silverado and fun fact, if you have break drums or a standard with a clutch, they have asbestos in them. So wear your PPE folks.
The only way that would be harmful to you is if you took apart the breaks and/or clutch and broke off pieces of the pads. It's really not something the average person would ever be exposed to.
@@TroIIingThemSoftly eh, clutch and brake parts wear off so that dust comes free as you use it.
@@TroIIingThemSoftly look at your wheels. they're covered in brake dust. If you're someone who would change your own parts, they you're exposed.
@@___Bruh__ The dust blows off, so just walking past the vehicle exposes you to the fine dust. The dirt on the floor of the parking areas is almost always contaminated heavily with it, plus of course also lots of lead from the fuel as well. Unleaded fuel is allowed to have up to a certain amount of lead, simply because the refineries did not want to replace all the tanks and piping, which also use asbestos as packing in glands, and as gasket material as well, long with tons of it used as floating lid seals as well, blended in with rubber to make a resiliant and UV proof seal.
Remember the car brake company RAYbestos... that was the selling point......
I work in transportation Industry, the best brake pads are still made from abestos. There are non asbestos variant, but the brake performance and heat resistance is nowhere near abestos one.
it's not really that Asbestos is a bad material to use like it's extreamly good and actually pretty save. the problem is that handling the material is very high risk. once you built what you need to build out of it it's safe. it's just the harvesting, production in to useable form, construction, and then demolition/recycling that is the problem with it.
I’m not sure if it’s still legal but 10 years ago in Pennsylvania we could legally throw 25 lbs of asbestos out with our residential trash every week.
Asbestos tends to be pretty darn good at what it does, like the cost to performance ratio is unfortunately great. It's like asbestos is filtering the other cancer juices to to spice it up more.
Oh dang i posted this before watching the whole thing. I didn't know it was still used in filtration lol
asbestos is somewhat like lead in a way. you always think "well now we can get rid of it" but na, not realy, you can just push it into the corner a little more.
Yeah that's the problem
Were it not such a massive health hazard when rendered airborne (a very frequent and easy thing to do), it truely would be a miracle mineral
Not only good performance to price, but just... Best performance in many places
My Nana was a primary school teacher back in the early 1940's and she and her fellow teachers would make play dough for the kids out of asbestos and water. They also kept the front walk clear of weeds by sprinkling mine tailings over it. Between those and the lead in the paint and the water pipes it's amazing that so many kids lived (and sad about the ones who didn't).
Great video. Thanks for sharing this very important information.
Lead was still legal to put in hair dye until 2022
Nice video, very informative. I learned alot about asbestos that I didn't know beforehand.
Brilliant episode! Thank you!
Always interesting, thank you.
Wait.. it wasn't banned already..
Should have mentioned reverse osmosis and ammonia compounds for potable water....
"remember" those commercials? They play every 12 minutes on MeTV
I was on a remodel job last year. It was an old apartment building built in 1949 being converted into million$ condos. They had 13 year olds shoveling the fluffy asbestos into black contractor bags with no ppe, and the building didn’t have windows yet so it was just wafting in the air into the neighborhood.
You might remove asbestos from the facilities producing chlorine, but there are still asbestos pipes that transport that water. Belgium banned asbestos in '98, but there are still asbestos waterlines in rural regions. Most pipes run under the roads so they'd only get replaced once the road surface needs major repairs.
it's not a priority as the fibres aren't as bad when not breathed in.
I sometimes get samples of asbestos pipe in my lab! Nasty stuff, I don't like the thought of such pipes still carrying our water
Australia banned chrysotile asbestos, including the import of products containing it, just over 20 years ago, and I find it outrageous that it was only just over 20 years ago - should have been done a lot sooner. To learn today that the USA is finally banning it now... Why? What took you so long?
Interesting! Thank you!!!
the way you presented this video was really good!
I actually thought it was very poor. It was obvious that she had come to a conclusion about asbestos, and was out to push her narrative, instead of providing a balanced view of the situation. She failed to really mention where or why some forms of asbestos are still in use, and what their alternatives (and their risks) are. For a science channel, this was far from scientific or really informative. It was really just venting.
@@jaredwilliams8621 I meant the way she talked, not what the video was about. There is a difference between how someone presents and what someone presents
We played with the Mercury that came out of our broken glass thermometer.
It was sooo fun. Pinch, smash, splatter, then scoop back together
My grandparents had maze games that used drops of mercury.
and yet for some stupid reason smoking is still legal
Tobacco companies: "it ain't much, but it's honest work. 🤑🤑🤑"
I guess the difference is that, theoretically, it's people putting themselves at risk by purchasing an using a product widely known and labeled as cancer causing, vs employers putting employees at risk. Of course, it's more complicated than that, what the complication of second hand smoke effecting those who don't voluntarily choose to smoke (albeit, to a lesser extent than those who actually smoke cigarettes/cigars/etc.), not to mention the addictive nature both of nicotine as a drug and the social component smoking has for some people, which of which can make quiting incredibly difficulty, if not impossible for some people, without proper support.
All that said, unlike with something like asbestos, where no one was purposely exposing themselves to it in order to manage cravings the only way they know how, I'm not convinced banning smoking outright is a good solution, for exactly the same reasons so many other drug laws are criticized -- that they're both ineffective and counterproductive at actually stopping the sale and use of dangerous drugs, just as the prohibition against alcohol only made things worse by driving people to sell and drink in secret and effectively prevents any regulation that might have actually reduced the risks.
Of course, the risks of regularly drinking alcohol, at least in small-moderate amounts, aren't nearly as high as that of regularly smoking or consuming certain other types of more danger drugs, so there's arguably a greater public duty to mitigate the risks of tobacco use compared to alcohol overuse. The question is whether outlawing it is actually an effective way of doing that while also causing the smallest amount of unnecessary harm in the process. I haven't personally done any kind of study into the research that's been done on the effects of various drugs and how they compare to the effects alcohol prohibition in the 1920's, let alone how reasonable it is to extrapolate such research to make predictions about the effects of a potential ban of the sale of tobacco products, so I can't really say definitely if it's a good idea or not. But my instinct is that, as harmful as smoking is, an outright ban would likely to have similar counterproductive effects as prohibition and other widely criticized drug laws.
What I _do_ think would perhaps be a good idea would be a complete ban on _advertising_ the sale of tobacco products, or at least much stricter regulations on how how, when, and where, such advertising can be done. Last I heard (and this may be outdated information), while it was technically illegal to aim tobacco at minors, companies got away with it anyway by _saying_ in the ads, basically "Don't smoke. It's bad." while at the same time _showing_ teens partying and having fun while smoking. Though don't quote me on that. I'm just going by memory of a video I watched years ago.
Thank you for correcting my understanding on this. I'm sure there are still mines that need to be cleaned up and old buildings that still have them.
In some industrial furnaces it can not be adequately replaced
I was actually considering looking up what type of cancer mesothelioma is after the “Mesothelioma Can-Can” got stuck in my head from this one video. Thank you for the definition!
This lady is an excellent presenter.
I agree 100% I love the videos that she presents
I've been trying to find out if asbestos is soluable in anything so i can repurpose and acetylene cylinder, like its just silica and magnesium if i understand properly so anything that works on one the other should work right?
The writing, tone, and delivery of this video is top notch 😂 thank you
It seemed more like a vent, than educational content from a science channel. I thought it was poorly done. She never really addressed why asbestos would still be used today and what might change if it were removed.
I've grown such love for this channel ever since watching it in school. I've become addicted to more knowledge
Yup, that's the nature of youtube addiction, an ongoing stream of novel information
It's wild that they argue one asbestos is safer than the other, so let's keep it.
Like arguing explosives are more dangerous than very flammable substances.
Yeah, it's true, but we should be benchmarking it against nothing. How much worse is it than nothing.
No it's not like arguing explosives. It takes repeated exposure over years to asbestos fibers to see any issues. People living or working around asbestos are unlikely to see any problems, unless it is being disturbed constantly. So yes it would be like comparing explosives to combustibles, if it took several years to ignite, and only made you somewhat uncomfortable.
Meanwhile, one arrangement of hydrocarbons is sugar, while another is jet fuel. 🤷♂️
Asbestos is just a subtype of a much larger family of crystalline silicate minerals. Almost all of these minerals can cause lung cancer if inhaled. And yet, most of these silicate minerals are SAFER than asbestiform silicates, so we've decided to keep them.
Cement (and anything made from it like concrete and mortar) contains crystalline silica. This silica is dangerous is exactly the same way as asbestos, but at a somewhat lower level. So we've decided to keep building with concrete.
Bricks are made from clay which contains crystalline silica. This silica is dangerous in exactly the same way as asbestos, but at a lower level. So we've decided to keep making bricks.
Stone (both natural and engineered stone) contains crystalline silica - in some cases spectacularly high amounts. This silica is dangerous in exactly the same way as asbestos, but at a somewhat lower level. So much so that some countries around the world have started to ban certain engineered and natural stones as not worth the risk. However, we've decided to keep making counter tops out of granite or quartz or whatever. For the time being at least.
Point is, we are still arguing that some crystalline silica minerals (ie asbestos) are too dangerous to allow, but also arguing that other kinds of crystalline silica mineral are SAFER (but still dangerous), so let's continue to use them. We've got a long way to go in this discussion.
@@UGNAvalon they didn't get into the actual chemistry that makes it safer. It's because chrysotile has only Mg and not Fe in it. All the other asbestos minerals have more Fe which causes the immune system to freak out way more which causes the cellular damage that leads to the cancers. Grinding any silicate mineral or inhaling the dust, even quartz, will damage the lungs, no surprise there, chrysotile is only slightly more dangerous than silica dust, compared to the massively more dangerous Reibeckite and other so called "blue" asbestos
After getting older, I realize that the world largely runs on a 'throw everything at the wall and see what sticks' approach
You should mention in every single video.. “this is why we need more people in the science and engineering fields!” 👍
i'd really love to get scishow's opinion on the "manufactured stone" issues as well!!
Thank God for lobbyists, defeating the evil government restrictions and letting the innocent billionaires to sell precious poison 💖
Won't somebody please think of the millionaires....
One time I was running and started choking. I thought it was allergies but I didn't recall any blooming flowers. I recently watched a documentary detailing wide spread asbestos use in housing insulation. Then, I remembered seeing blue crystal speckled wood debris. It must have blown away from demolition... Still recovering from vocal nodules💀
Blue asbestos is the amosite variety. In Australia there was a company called Mr Fluffy that would blow blue asbestos into your roof & walls to insulate them. Worked great!
Ah yeah, we don't do that anymore.
There's also a town where most of the blue asbestos came from that no-one really visits these days. Aside from a few CZcamsrs looking for clicks.
Blue asbestos is crocidolite, so that's probs what you saw! Fun fact: here in Australia, a town was forcibly abandoned due to its proximity to naturally occurring crocidolite hills that sickened the residents. Hope you get better...
LOVE the recent health-related vids! Interesting and applicable!
There’s still a lot of asbestos in industrial facilities that’s been there since the 50s. It gets removed when the need arises but people will still be exposed for quite some time into the future although at a much lower scale
I've heard of alternative methods to chlorination when disinfecting water, some water purification plants use strong UV light to kill pathogens. Maybe instead of making exceptions to the use of asbestos, this could push water treatment plants to consider more low-cost eco-friendly methods.
UV light and chlorine both disinfect water at the water treatment plant. Chlorine's advantage is that it keeps water disinfected all the way to your faucet. It's only a tiny disadvantage since most water is out of a city's system within a day or two.
In the grand scheme of things, asbestos has, saved more lives than it’s ended. That’s not to say, as technology improves we shouldn’t try to come up with alternatives.
Yeah were it not so dangerous when rendered airborne, it truely would be a miracle material
It can do so much so well
But the count isn't over yet: people are still dying from it.
Yes, it's benefits should be considered against the damages.
There's a pair of mining towns in my area named Sulphide, and Actinolite. No points for guessing what each town was mostly mining. Of course, neither has anything on the town over in Quebec they straight-up named Asbestos. (The locals realllly don't think it's funny anymore so leave 'em alone.)
I started the video, and I thought my adblocker had died.
The cost of chlorine is directly tied to the cost of energy, so changing the diaphram type from asbestos to teflon should not have a noticable impact on price unless the diaphrams are orders of magnitude different in cost.
The cost is ALSO directly tied to the efficiency and cost of the membrane. And also consider that PFAS is a huge issue and many towns and cities are looking at enormous spending to get rid of PFAS from their water supplies....so using membranes made of Teflon while spending millions on PFAS removal is a really bad look.
How safe is PTFE(teflon) compared to PFAS and apparently gore-tex is no longer made of a PTFE membrane.
@ian3580 Lol, teflon and pfas contamination cannot be equivocated. That's comparable to the difference between PVC pipe and Vinyl Choride gas. You could equivocate something like firefighting foam and pfas contamination. But of course, it has to be able to leave its area of use for that to be so.
You make a far better point though, if one membrane vs another somehow singnificantly changes the efficiency of the electrolytic process. (my guess would be it doesn't because both are composed of an insulator so their resistance is dependent on their physical porosity which is a controlled value in manufacture)
@@alexanderx33 I think you're missing the point by a mile.
@@ian3580 O..K.. can you articulate why?
Sure it's dangerous but it's cheap for companies!!
corporations are people too!
It's sad it's so dangerous as otherwise it truly is a miracle material. Cheap, yet incredibly useful and effective
its not so much that its cheap, but that it was a near miracle product. at one time it was the only fireproof fiber that was known about, and a lot of lives were saved by it. and as the host stated its still the best option for chlorine.
Chunks of it were also added to concrete used to build chimneys here in NZ. Which I noticed while one was getting demolished post the 2011 quake and watched the firefighters etc doing the job just shrug it off...
Oh it's also in lino here and used in plaster for textured ceilings and was so used until the 1980's from memory.
Them saying its all contaminated to try and prove it's safety baffled me
Awesome Savannah! I enjoy their presentation energy. Poor Hank - his narrating skills are matched and outmatched by a few people on his staff.
I think it was just one person speaking lol
@@abigalanderson7494 Yep! One person presents in this video, and their name is Savannah.
@@SIsaacKher
@@wtice4632 their
Aw, look at you two being obtuse. Aren't you cute.
Wouldn't asbestos actually be the best option over teflon though? (Assuming the asbestos can't leak into the drinking water). The amount of people whose health would be negatively impacted by pfas is far greater than the amount of people who work with asbestos.
I'm confused why rockwool is allowed and how it's different from asbestos.
Rockwool, and fiberglass have much thicker and smoother fibers that don't get stuck inside the lungs as well as asbestos fibers. They are still not particularly healthy (wear a mask) and can cause silicosis, but nowhere near as bad as asbestos.
All types were banned by 1999 in the UK. Some types were banned in 1985
At 5:51 when she said MERCURY I unintentionally audibly gasped!.
Asbestos was banned in brake pads and liners here in Aus 2003 iirc, as I was buying a set of pads for my paddock bomb and the mechanic said they were the last asbestos pads as laws prohibited them in a few weeks and he said I was lucky because the new pads were terrible. And I thought yeah maybe but I also don't want cancer (me as a 16 year old) I recall always being careful with pads and shoes and always careful not to disturb the surface of them. I also used water to wash down and wet all the brake stuff before working on them. PPE wasn't really much of a thing as off the shelf like it is now.
I use a full respirator for anything vapour or known dust hazard now days.
Going back to the mechanic's comment, how her was so wrong. Since the banning of asbestos in brake pads, pads have been liberated from it's constants as new materials were developed surpassing well beyond. Pads these days are leagues ahead of yesteryear and a lot safer.
Asbestos is great stuff. It is strong and strengthens things it's added to, like cement pipes, asphalt shingles, and floor tiles, to name just a few. Asbestos is fireproof, and it is a decent thermal insulation. That's why they used a ton of it on steam pipes. It was put into hundreds different types of products and made all of them better than they were without it.
The downside is the fibers damage lung tissue.
With that said, people used to chain smoke cigarettes while working with asbestos. The combination of harmful stuff being put into their lungs greatly increased the lethality. Asbestos damages lungs of non-smokers too, but not nearly as quickly.
I'm fine with asbestos being banned, but products made today that replace those that used to have asbestos in them will likely of lower quality, and/or more expensive. Just be aware of that.
Here’s something fun… I’m 66 years old. When I was a kid I had a mineral set with different samples of rocks and minerals. It was a little plastic box with cardboard under then with the names of the samples.
Amongst the samples were asbestos and uranium!
Same. I don't remember uranium, but there was a little swatch of woven asbestos yarn. I still remember how it felt heavy and cool to the touch.
@@captsorghum back in the day table cloth or dining towels for the ultra rich was made form asbestos
Uranium is practically everywhere in the ground as a trace element. Only gonna be a problem if you decide to enrich it and eat it.