As an Airbus captain for AA I love the A321 NEO order great airplane. But the lack of a widebody aircraft order further puts us (AA) behind United and Delta in the international destinations market
@@M1911jln well as we see with the 737 max continuing issues it is best not to have your eggs all in one basket just in case in the future an issue comes up with the 321 and i am sure Boeing gave them on hell of a deal
Also, an airline that has both A32X and B737 in their fleet will find itself getting better deals from both Airbus and Boeing over an airline with just one of the types. The airframer will know there is another competitor in the game
I highly admire Embraer's perseverance and ingenuity in their quest to maintain their foothold in the commercial aviation industry. I'm therefore happy to see that they (in particular) have received a considerable order.
and actually the e175 e2 was developed by embraer knowing that it would not comply the US scope clause governing regional jets, hoping that pilots unions would relax the rules, which haven't changed. therefore embraer has no choice but to continue selling the older first generation e175 despite spending huge sums of money in developing the e175e2. Embraer essentially forced the e175 to be re engined with pratt and whitney gtf engines despite the excess weight not permitted by the US scope clause
@@encinobalboa The A220 is only being made in Mirabel and Mobile. Which means production time is slow. Plus, the E175 they are using is smaller, and probably suits the smaller routes they are using better than the A220.
@@encinobalboaAcho que a limitação imposta em termos de peso para a aviação regional impede o 220. Até porque são aeronaves de primeira geração. E não os revolucionários E2. Q tem motores mais pesados, embora mais eficientes! 😉
I love Boeing, Airbus AND Embraer so I'm glad they all got representation in this new order. Having recently taken an Embraer 175 from LAX -> TUS I was impressed by the larger and more comfortable seats!
Fly it some more, Airbus made in a drug infested area in France. They all got issues just like the 737 got issues. This is what happens when pieces made all over the place . In the past Airbus engines falling off as well.😮😮😮
@@coletrickle581the only way Boeing was able to fit the NG engines to the ancient design was to move them inwards and forward. The plane is not balanced anymore and requires the deadly MCAS system to overcome that flaw. The Airbus is a way newer design. Boeing screwed up too many times
@expansionone The A320 is a 35 year old design itself, but the main advantage it has over the 737 is its landing gear design. In hindsight, the 737 should have reached the end of its lineage with the NG series. But so many were ordered that Boeing decided to enhance aerodynamics and keep the line going and customers coming. The MAX series design is fine - NOW that the MCAS software has been reprogrammed, where it also gives pilots final authority over the system should any hypothetical situation occur. Whether such a situation is highly improbable or the chance of occurrence is actually impossible, the pilot has the override ability. Clearly, the current problem with the MAX lies within manufacturing. Until that is resolved, Boeing deserves the intense scrutiny. Even if most of the produced aircraft to date were built correctly, things have to be perfect all the time. Boeing hasn't shown the industry they can do that to this point.
As of 2023, the E175 remains in production, with strong demand from regional airlines in the United States, which cannot order the newer, but heavier E175-E2 due to scope clause restrictions on maximum takeoff weight.[61] can they adjust the takeoff weight to allow the E175-E2? Would be a win for the environment
I fly AA every week. I have lost all faith in new Boeing jets! The Boeing company is a train wreck with my life on the line!! I really like the A321. My favorite plane to fly is the E175 for comfort. Glad to see the E145’s will be retired!
Why must every commenter think a carrier must have the A350 in ones fleet.. The 787 suits their current widebody needs just fine . Who knows maybe it has a place in the future for 777-200 replacements, or they could just as easily order more 787 9 -10's!!
Wonder if mixing A321 and 737-10 is more about having some network relilience should one type be grounded and/or have engine problems that reduce reliability.
Taking a big risk with Boeing 737 variants, assume that they are getting them very cheaply. Not a good look for the safety of their passengers. Should have bought more European produced Airbus
Airlines have got to realise there are people who will not fly on any Max plane. Boeing need to learn you can't update an old design with bigger engines and use software to over come the aerodynamic issues caused by bigger engines to an old frame. It will only take one more serious issue with the max family and Boeing will be in serious trouble. Profit before safety.
I help manufacture the engines on these so I understand a little about the industry - 1- I wonder why American chose the E-175 over the little Airbus as they are quite similar in spec. Perhaps it's because of time to delivery? 2- What happened to the pilots' union telling Boeing to not even bother to build the MAX10? The union stated that NONE of its members would be willing to fly the -10 as they deem it unsafe. Calhoun the CEO of Boeing, publicly stated that he was ready and willing to scrap the entire MAX series. I wonder what's REALLY going on behind the scenes...I know Boeing makes plenty of revenue as a defense contractor.
The MAX10 is probably going to be a mistake. The 321NEO has been much easier to acquire as the first order of the 321NEO was ordered at the same time as the MAX8 and that Airbus order has already been completed while the MAX8 STILL has delays. The 321NEO has been a perfect fit for AA's domestic longhaul fleet. The MAX has been lacking as it isn't as versatile in offering the same product on the domestic longhaul. The MAX is just not big enough to meet the service needs (it's galley's aren't big enough to hold all the food and service items). AA tried to use the MAX8 on domestic transcontinental services but had nowhere to put the service items the transcon service uses. It was an immediate mistake that wasn't foreseen months in advance. Each transcon is provided a menu and the options on the menu didn't match what was available on the aircraft. Meals listed were not there, also desserts, wines, linens, glassware, breads and first course salads were just not there. They just didn't put them on the plane because there was no space. Service items were placed in closets and overhead bins or left on the jetbridge. The airbus IS however able to accommodate the larger domestic longhaul and transcontinental services. The MAX10 would need a first class galley overhaul if they wanted to use these aircraft in the same manner, WHICH would mean taking out seats which they are just not willing to do.
That’s their brilliance and success…AA needs to improve on service next making them incredibly competitive and unmatched by any other American carrier.
I am a frequent flier on American Airlines and their A321 fleet is the most comfortable and nicest narrow body jets they have. I will say the 777s and 787s are starting to get tired - particularly the 777-200s need to be retired
Boeing really needed a vote of confidence in the MAX 10. A321 unavailable in the near future anyway, so I think the MAX 10 is the only option for near term lift, but I wonder what AA paid for this order?
Two things regarding your comment / question: They don't buy , they lease, and they are getting very good deals from Airbus, and now Boeing because of the MAX problems; the second thing is the -10 is not available either, because production was halted by the FAA until all issues are worked out.
They don't have to install the BMCS, which not only makes it far more efficient, but won't require pilot retraining, honest! BMCS: Ballistic Missile Control System
Once Boeing starts delivering the jets that are yet to be certified, they will likely announce new middle market aircraft, including a new narrowbody aircraft. At that time, it's possible that American Airlines will cancel some of the A321neo orders. An order this large for the Max 10 is confirmation that the aircraft will soon be certified. Boeing already has a number of airframes ready to go.
@@sainnt LEAP-1B is compromised. It has a higher TSFC than -1A on A320NEOs, produces less thrust and runs hotter and faster. PW1100G at EIS was already more efficient than LEAP-1A, and will be even more efficient with the soon-to-be-ready GTF Advantage. Without a significantly more efficient engine there's no way Boeing can outperform A321NEO in efficiency and capability.
@@steinwaldmadchen First of all, the 737 is a smaller, lighter aircraft than the A320neo series, so having slightly less power is a non issue. The Leap 1C slots in between the two in terms of power, but is about the size of the A320, so that's where I suspect a slight power disadvantage. Also, I don't know why people are always talking about the 737 and A321 in the same conversation. The A321 is a larger aircraft, and as such would require more power anyway. I tell people all the time: the A321 is currently in a class by itself, which is why it's raking up record orders. The 737 is way more popular than the A320... it's not even close. With regards to the GTF, sure, it's going to have a slight advantage in terms of efficiency, but at the moment, it's causing nothing but financial headaches for airlines around the world. It's not being talked about when everyone is obsessed with Boeing quality control issues, but that issue is causing airlines much more money than the Boeing issues. Two airlines have already gone out of business because of it, and Spirit Airlines is on the brink.
Ask American Airlines to check the Split Pins holding the Doors in place are actually in place and fitted as they should - easy to do when you know how.
AA would not know how to deploy them. AA is currently led by a set of regional managers with no vision, and no clue how to compete across oceans. Furthermore, AA had 350's on order, a simulator set up and certified, with simulator instructors and check air pilots trained up when AA canceled the 350. AA's management would never admit a mistake and reverse a decision as large as bringing the 350's back.
I agree. AA would be making excellent money right now using the A350. Also, the 330NEO would be an excellent aircraft, but again, the current management does not know how to run a Flag carrier.@@wadehiggins1114
AA's strategy seems for long haul operations seems to be about carrying fewer passengers. The 787 carries fewer passengers than A350, and they are comfortable with that. The seem to be replacing their fleet of 777s with a larger number of 787s.
*The Boeing 787 has a design cabin altitude of 6,000 ft, the A350 is set even lower at 5,500 ft.* *The cabins are pressurized and maintain this level regardless of cruising altitude, be that 30,000 ft or 40,000 ft.* May 9, 2023
Wish that AA considered ordering the A320neos. And if they were to consider order of a Wide-Body aircraft in future...I would love to see them consider the 777-200lr.
AA already have over 200 A320-200’s. I think they are focusing more on slightly higher capacity newer AB aircrafts. For example, AA have 70 A321-NEOs and a backlog or 95 orders. I do agree they would benefit of newer A320 as they average 18 yo and the. NEOs would be an excellent choice…we will see what happens?
Many people are not noticing that Airbus is no longer selling a lot of A320s. The majority of the NEO order is for the A321. The Max 8 is outselling the A320 by a lot.
Great to see Embraer mixing it with the big boys. Had to smile when you mentioned the order for 737 10s 😊. A deal, no doubt at bargain basement prices and purely because Airbus can't build A321s fast enough for American
Just flew Jetstar’s A321 Neo, it was very disappointing. 28.5 inch seat pitch, only 3 toilets (tiny), and seats that might as well be a bare metal frame, the padding was nonexistent
Having flown both the A321NEO is far superior to the MAX9 or the yet to be certified MAX10, which I'm sure will have a ludicrously fast approach speed, and with its Frankin Gear of boy lets just hope door issues are the least we hav to worry about.
You just know Boeing offered one hell of a discount to get this order. Everyone will be stuck buying some Maxes because the wait for Airbus is too much.
Good that they support Embraer, they deserve it. Pity the scope clauses don't allow other models. Ordering the MAXes was predictable in any order. Boeing would be even more mocked and disgraced if that happened, and it's another US company. And likely they got a huge sale price on those, bargain cheap. And Airbus has a waiting list a mile long. Let's see if they get their MAX10s before the A320s, certification perspectives are terrible, and are now completely out of their hands.
The A220 would be introducing a new aircraft type, meaning more training and staffing costs. Considering that since the start of the pandemic, AA has retired the 757, 767, A330, and Embrear 195, adding a type probably was not likely.
mainline scope clauses limit regional aircraft seating capacity to 76 seats. So you'll never see the 190 or the E2 at regional airlines, and they are just too small to run for mainlines. ULCC's however are free to use them if they like. Breeze for example had some 190's but the CEO really likes the A220 over the Embraer jet.
They’re not replacing the A319s or A320s. The part of the press release that this video missed was that the A319s and A320s will be retrofitted to the same standard as the A321 and 737-800s starting this year.
Don’t know how you concluded that AA have been using the A320 for several decades, when the inaugural flight for the A321 was in 1990. Airbus was formed in 1970!
With this Embraer order, I’d be curious if American would be quietly stepping up lobbying efforts to expand the Scope Clause that currently excludes the newer, more efficient Embraer E175-E2 & this current EJet order is getting American their foot in the door & place in the queue.
@@soccerguy2433 The current limit of MTOW is 86k LBS, which does seem sort of arbitrary, but I guess the line had to be drawn somewhere🤷♂️. However, in my admittedly uninformed view on the topic, if there are still only 76 seats, does it meaningfully change the "passenger experience"? Or Operating dynamics? Should an aircraft be over this magic MTOW number.
A scope clause is not something that is "lobbied" anywhere. It is part of the working contract between American Airlines and their pilots. If the company wants to change the scope clause, it has to be negotiated during the next employment contract negotiations between management and pilots at that airline. Right now, no mainline pilots anywhere in the US are interested or willing to allow scope to be expanded because that allows more outsourcing of their jobs. Asking a major airline pilot to allow expanded scope is analogous to asking them to allow their jobs to be outsourced to lower-paid pilots working for another company. Would anyone with a highly skilled, difficult-to-get job agree to that? Also keep in mind, AA (or DAL or UAL) is free to order as many Embraer E2s as they want-- they just have to be operated by the mainline airline, instead of outsourced to Envoy, Republic, Skywest, or some other regional carrier.
@@flaps45 Current trend seems to suggest scope clause won't be relieved any time soon. Pilots are hard to get, and airlines have to upgauge and raise pay to cope with it. It's unlikely the unions would give in when things are in their favour.
@@flaps45 If American is going to be the operator of these aircraft, then not selecting the E175-E2 makes even less sense. If the aim of this order is for a modern, efficient fleet, why would they choose a design that's new & improved? The E175 is a stretch of the E170, which was announced in 1999, had its maiden fight in 2002, & entered service in 2004. Meaning American just bought a 20+yr old design. Why not see if Airbus & Boeing would be interested in building American some A321ceo & 737NG. RN, the E175-E2 program, which was originally planned to enter service in 2021, has been halted. However, with sufficient incentive, I wouldn't be surprised if Embraer could be persuaded to spin development back up.
When will the 737's be certified; a better question is when will Boeing lose it's feckless employees including top mgmt? This American Airlines order gives the shareholders a ray of hope.
The reason LAX/PHX seems like a “Birthing Center”…I like that BTW….an Airbus Mill….especially 321NEO is one simple market…..”Hawaii”. Yes the Neos, can and frequently do domestic flights from LAX/PHX, but the other 321 types, can’t go ETOPS required for Hawaii.
Totally unexpected when i first heard that news from American. 2020 : Many old planes at American are retired. 2024 : More new planes are coming soon to American.
AAL just showed their employees that growth and expansion doesn't matter with ZERO widebody orders. They're content with being a second class feeder company. Shame on APA.
Given the current status of the 737 max program, I can very easily see American Airlines ditching that order and proceeding with a much larger Airbus fleet given the current FAA review of Boeing
the A321-200 Neo & it's variants can single handedly cater to American Airlines need for single aisle aircraft that'll serve their vast domestic network . . . alternative single aisle narrow body jets like the B737-MAX9 & B737-MAX10 are just not needed, or the Embraer E-195 LR E2 for that matter . . . because the A321-200 Neo can do it all . . . look how IndiGo operates a fleet of only A321-200 Neo & A320-200 Neo narrow body jets . . . the low cost budget carrier has an order for a further 182 brand new A321-200 Neo & A321-200 Neo LR single-aisle narrow body jets as of 2023 . . .
@@nickolliver3021 go and watch it then and tell me you enjoyed it. Considering a lot of it is what people say here and you get snappy at them I can imagine you throwing the remote at the tv
Crowded airports as well. A lot of the footage shown here was at LAX, and LAX has been running out of room over the past couple of years. They are literally taking down older structures (maintenance hangars) in order to build new terminal / gate areas. It was already a nightmare trying to move aircraft between hangars and terminals in the morning, taking 45 minutes to get an aircraft to its gate when without traffic it would take less than 5 minutes.
To get the scope clause mended was probably a reason too for the failed merger of Boeing and Embraer. How much leverage Embraer has now to get it mended is questionable.
I was not surprised by them ordering the MAX but by them going for the MAX 10 instead. So now AA and DL have both expressed their confidence on said model. Looks like UA now stands alone on its opinion.
Boeing will never clean up their production issues as long as airlines keep letting them off the hook for the shoddy work they do. The FTSB is all over them for failing to hand over information they asked for two months ago. For myself, I'm at the point I'll see when an Airbus has been scheduled for the route and stick to it.
You know with all of the MAX issues going on American negotiated some very good pricing for the MAX order, as they had Boeing in a tight spot with these aircraft not being produced for the near future. And all of the pluses talked about for the MAX aircraft are great on paper, but they won't mean much if any of them literally drop out of the sky. Speaking of a good deal, when American started ordering Airbus aircraft about 10 years ago now, in an admission from their own executives, they secured such a good deal on the order that they are willing to overlook the nagging every day maintenance issues that cause delays when they start their morning schedule. So of course they are ordering more neos, as they will be getting the best lease deals possible. And for those that don't know, everything is now leased by American, even all of the parts for these aircraft. Nothing owned makes it much easier if / when they need to bail. Might as well end on the negotiated deal theme. By ordering the number of aircraft American has, including the Embraer aircraft order just mentioned, not only are they getting a great initial deal on the aircraft, the lease deals give them an out. These aircraft will take years to get delivered, and a lot can / will happen with the airlines over this time frame. The lease deals allow them to back out of certain parts of these orders when needed, all while the top executives are raking in the money.
Availability of aircraft Various Chinese Airlines have 500-1000 new aircraft to sell to save them from bankruptcy. This would fill the gap in western airlines who cannot get enough from the manufacturers.
Embraer is 80% owned by Boeing, So same company as Boeing. So only two companies bought from. Boeing and Airbus. Very surprised at the 737 order but one has to ask, how much was the discount? Its good for Boeing, IF they can get their management to understand that they are not building w/machines. Plus it just shows how tied up Airbus are with orders and supply problems. I wish Boeing well, for the sake of their employee's, the management will walk away with huge sums as usual, when they leave. Just like the last lot.
Well, it's sadly not part of the E2 series, which would make far more sense. But the scope clause says no. Not sure if Embraer can get the scope clause modified, but it would serve everyone if done in a sensible way.
How is american airlines going to pay for all these planes? We've being told, over and over again how difficult it is to be profitable in the airline industry by airlines nowadays. Have we been lied to all along over the years? Possibly..😔
American is keeping Embraer alive and busy
Yup!
It's still the old Embraer E175 + version.
So is United
Well, outside the US the E2 series is kept alive. The scope clause needs an update to reflect the E2 series.
I hope the E175-E2 gains interest from other non-American airlines. Though many E170s and E175s out there are new.
As an Airbus captain for AA I love the A321 NEO order great airplane. But the lack of a widebody aircraft order further puts us (AA) behind United and Delta in the international destinations market
I honestly think that AA is waiting to see how the 777X variants will perform before placing an order, but I feel fairly confident that they will.
@@sainnt And when do we get the 777X? It looks like earlist in 2027. They dont have a single order in, and the backlog is almost 500 aircraft.
I don’t understand why AA is buying both the A321neo and the 737 Max 10.
@@M1911jln well as we see with the 737 max continuing issues it is best not to have your eggs all in one basket just in case in the future an issue comes up with the 321 and i am sure Boeing gave them on hell of a deal
Also, an airline that has both A32X and B737 in their fleet will find itself getting better deals from both Airbus and Boeing over an airline with just one of the types. The airframer will know there is another competitor in the game
I highly admire Embraer's perseverance and ingenuity in their quest to maintain their foothold in the commercial aviation industry. I'm therefore happy to see that they (in particular) have received a considerable order.
Especially since they have really been making excellent aircraft.
and actually the e175 e2 was developed by embraer knowing that it would not comply the US scope clause governing regional jets, hoping that pilots unions would relax the rules, which haven't changed. therefore embraer has no choice but to continue selling the older first generation e175 despite spending huge sums of money in developing the e175e2. Embraer essentially forced the e175 to be re engined with pratt and whitney gtf engines despite the excess weight not permitted by the US scope clause
I agree. I love the E190 offers more capacity and just as reliable.
Great to see that American is ordering Embraer as well. The narrow body market definitely needs more competition.
Wonder why AA did not choose A220? Maybe Embraer has faster delivery time.
@@encinobalboa The A220 is only being made in Mirabel and Mobile. Which means production time is slow. Plus, the E175 they are using is smaller, and probably suits the smaller routes they are using better than the A220.
@@encinobalboaAcho que a limitação imposta em termos de peso para a aviação regional impede o 220. Até porque são aeronaves de primeira geração. E não os revolucionários E2. Q tem motores mais pesados, embora mais eficientes! 😉
@@LeMassiveNoobExatamente. Por isso não poderiam também escolher os Embraer E2.
It's great that American is adding more Embriear Aircraft to it's fleet because the market for short haul flight routes is growing vastly ✈️
A321 Neo is a great plane and I feel safe when I fly one
💯
Airbus has this new method called makeing sure the bolts are tight 😊
I love Boeing, Airbus AND Embraer so I'm glad they all got representation in this new order. Having recently taken an Embraer 175 from LAX -> TUS I was impressed by the larger and more comfortable seats!
The A 321 is top shelf!! Just flew on a Hawiian flight in this great plane.
Fly it some more, Airbus made in a drug infested area in France. They all got issues just like the 737 got issues. This is what happens when pieces made all over the place . In the past Airbus engines falling off as well.😮😮😮
I'm very surprised that American Airlines is extending it's commitment to the 737 Max family considering the 737 isn't getting any more younger ✈️
Neither is the A321N
They are purchasing new 737s...
@@coletrickle581the only way Boeing was able to fit the NG engines to the ancient design was to move them inwards and forward. The plane is not balanced anymore and requires the deadly MCAS system to overcome that flaw. The Airbus is a way newer design. Boeing screwed up too many times
@expansionone The A320 is a 35 year old design itself, but the main advantage it has over the 737 is its landing gear design. In hindsight, the 737 should have reached the end of its lineage with the NG series. But so many were ordered that Boeing decided to enhance aerodynamics and keep the line going and customers coming.
The MAX series design is fine - NOW that the MCAS software has been reprogrammed, where it also gives pilots final authority over the system should any hypothetical situation occur. Whether such a situation is highly improbable or the chance of occurrence is actually impossible, the pilot has the override ability.
Clearly, the current problem with the MAX lies within manufacturing. Until that is resolved, Boeing deserves the intense scrutiny. Even if most of the produced aircraft to date were built correctly, things have to be perfect all the time. Boeing hasn't shown the industry they can do that to this point.
@@coletrickle581 Though it is a half-century younger design....
As of 2023, the E175 remains in production, with strong demand from regional airlines in the United States, which cannot order the newer, but heavier E175-E2 due to scope clause restrictions on maximum takeoff weight.[61]
can they adjust the takeoff weight to allow the E175-E2? Would be a win for the environment
Wondering if the 737 order was for the model with, or without, doors. 😜
depending if AA orders the convertible version.
Does the 737 Max-10 come with bolts? Or do the passengers bring their own?
Passengers to be provided with parachutes 😁
They are sold separately 😂
"some assembly required"
Very nice...!@@genxer74 😆
Does the a321neos come with cracks or do passengers need to be fat in order to stretch the fuselage?
Who in the right mind is still willing to fly 737s and 787s?
ask the airlines what a stupid comment
Why wouldn't they?
The only reason any airline would have for ordering the stone-age 737 would be that Airbus has a backlog of more than 5 years. Go figure.
Why would any airline continue to buy a 737 Max?
Or any Boeing product?
cry more🤡🤡
Can you imagine the secret discount they negotiated, placing this order while the FAA is going nuts over all the quality escapes?
Great news for Airbus and Embraer.
I fly AA every week. I have lost all faith in new Boeing jets! The Boeing company is a train wreck with my life on the line!! I really like the A321. My favorite plane to fly is the E175 for comfort. Glad to see the E145’s will be retired!
Airbus has this new method called makeing sure the bolts are tight
That adds costs and cuts into profits.
Enjoyed this, thx. It’s also pretty cool to see all of the parts being moved and assembled. Cheers.
I would like to see AA place order for 777X and more 787s. After all the wait will be long if ordered now. Can’t just buy when you need them.
Why must every commenter think a carrier must have the A350 in ones fleet..
The 787 suits their current widebody needs just fine .
Who knows maybe it has a place in the future for 777-200 replacements, or they could just as easily order more 787 9 -10's!!
@@isthatso5616 The bus people just want to pollute all airlines.
Had a rewinged - reengine and modernise 757 existed would that replace the 320 / 321 neo
Wonder if mixing A321 and 737-10 is more about having some network relilience should one type be grounded and/or have engine problems that reduce reliability.
a great question
Taking a big risk with Boeing 737 variants, assume that they are getting them very cheaply. Not a good look for the safety of their passengers. Should have bought more European produced Airbus
As long as the doors stay on the 737. Embraer is an excellent choice.
Airlines have got to realise there are people who will not fly on any Max plane. Boeing need to learn you can't update an old design with bigger engines and use software to over come the aerodynamic issues caused by bigger engines to an old frame. It will only take one more serious issue with the max family and Boeing will be in serious trouble. Profit before safety.
I help manufacture the engines on these so I understand a little about the industry -
1- I wonder why American chose the E-175 over the little Airbus as they are quite similar in spec. Perhaps it's because of time to delivery?
2- What happened to the pilots' union telling Boeing to not even bother to build the MAX10? The union stated that NONE of its members would be willing to fly the -10 as they deem it unsafe. Calhoun the CEO of Boeing, publicly stated that he was ready and willing to scrap the entire MAX series. I wonder what's REALLY going on behind the scenes...I know Boeing makes plenty of revenue as a defense contractor.
The MAX10 is probably going to be a mistake. The 321NEO has been much easier to acquire as the first order of the 321NEO was ordered at the same time as the MAX8 and that Airbus order has already been completed while the MAX8 STILL has delays.
The 321NEO has been a perfect fit for AA's domestic longhaul fleet. The MAX has been lacking as it isn't as versatile in offering the same product on the domestic longhaul. The MAX is just not big enough to meet the service needs (it's galley's aren't big enough to hold all the food and service items). AA tried to use the MAX8 on domestic transcontinental services but had nowhere to put the service items the transcon service uses. It was an immediate mistake that wasn't foreseen months in advance. Each transcon is provided a menu and the options on the menu didn't match what was available on the aircraft. Meals listed were not there, also desserts, wines, linens, glassware, breads and first course salads were just not there. They just didn't put them on the plane because there was no space. Service items were placed in closets and overhead bins or left on the jetbridge.
The airbus IS however able to accommodate the larger domestic longhaul and transcontinental services.
The MAX10 would need a first class galley overhaul if they wanted to use these aircraft in the same manner, WHICH would mean taking out seats which they are just not willing to do.
American Airlines is clever : NEVER buy only from one provider : you never know what could happen 🤷♂
That’s their brilliance and success…AA needs to improve on service next making them incredibly competitive and unmatched by any other American carrier.
AA has always operated a mixed fleet. At this time though, they only operate Boeing widebody aircraft and a mix of narrowbody aircraft.
They are even more clever than that, because they do not buy any aircraft (or parts), they are all leased.
smarter than Alaska which only flies Boeing
@@Sean-C FYI. Airlines that fly single types are among the most profitable in the world. Think Ryanair, Wizz Air, easyJet and southwest.
I am a frequent flier on American Airlines and their A321 fleet is the most comfortable and nicest narrow body jets they have. I will say the 777s and 787s are starting to get tired - particularly the 777-200s need to be retired
Boeing really needed a vote of confidence in the MAX 10. A321 unavailable in the near future anyway, so I think the MAX 10 is the only option for near term lift, but I wonder what AA paid for this order?
Two things regarding your comment / question: They don't buy , they lease, and they are getting very good deals from Airbus, and now Boeing because of the MAX problems; the second thing is the -10 is not available either, because production was halted by the FAA until all issues are worked out.
I wouldn’t trust Boeing to build a fridge without leaving out half the bolts
You have to say the Airbus A320 Neo take a some beating .
Ignore my last comment. Boeing, it seems are getting lucky due to the Airbus full order book on the A320 family.
“737 will bring additional efficiency… ” 😂 how? It gets grounded every so often 😂
That's the (fuel) efficiency. When it's grounded it consumes no fuel.
@@EuropeanRailfanAlt exactly 🤣
@@EuropeanRailfanAlt😂👍🏿
They don't have to install the BMCS, which not only makes it far more efficient, but won't require pilot retraining, honest!
BMCS: Ballistic Missile Control System
@@EuropeanRailfanAltAs in the ABs with no engine option or 220!
Once Boeing starts delivering the jets that are yet to be certified, they will likely announce new middle market aircraft, including a new narrowbody aircraft. At that time, it's possible that American Airlines will cancel some of the A321neo orders.
An order this large for the Max 10 is confirmation that the aircraft will soon be certified. Boeing already has a number of airframes ready to go.
Only if you can get the engines that can significantly outperform the current ones, especially GTF.
@@steinwaldmadchen The Max 10 uses the Leap 1B engines, which have proven to be more reliable than the PW engines.
@@sainnt LEAP-1B is compromised. It has a higher TSFC than -1A on A320NEOs, produces less thrust and runs hotter and faster. PW1100G at EIS was already more efficient than LEAP-1A, and will be even more efficient with the soon-to-be-ready GTF Advantage.
Without a significantly more efficient engine there's no way Boeing can outperform A321NEO in efficiency and capability.
@@steinwaldmadchen First of all, the 737 is a smaller, lighter aircraft than the A320neo series, so having slightly less power is a non issue. The Leap 1C slots in between the two in terms of power, but is about the size of the A320, so that's where I suspect a slight power disadvantage. Also, I don't know why people are always talking about the 737 and A321 in the same conversation. The A321 is a larger aircraft, and as such would require more power anyway.
I tell people all the time: the A321 is currently in a class by itself, which is why it's raking up record orders. The 737 is way more popular than the A320... it's not even close.
With regards to the GTF, sure, it's going to have a slight advantage in terms of efficiency, but at the moment, it's causing nothing but financial headaches for airlines around the world. It's not being talked about when everyone is obsessed with Boeing quality control issues, but that issue is causing airlines much more money than the Boeing issues. Two airlines have already gone out of business because of it, and Spirit Airlines is on the brink.
Great coverage as always, Dj! Thanks!
Ask American Airlines to check the Split Pins holding the Doors in place are actually in place and fitted as they should - easy to do when you know how.
While not saying they should not purchase from boeing. The A350-1000 caught my attention that would be a useful aircraft for them
I agree!
AA would not know how to deploy them. AA is currently led by a set of regional managers with no vision, and no clue how to compete across oceans. Furthermore, AA had 350's on order, a simulator set up and certified, with simulator instructors and check air pilots trained up when AA canceled the 350. AA's management would never admit a mistake and reverse a decision as large as bringing the 350's back.
@dcxplant that's unfortunate!
I agree. AA would be making excellent money right now using the A350. Also, the 330NEO would be an excellent aircraft, but again, the current management does not know how to run a Flag carrier.@@wadehiggins1114
AA's strategy seems for long haul operations seems to be about carrying fewer passengers. The 787 carries fewer passengers than A350, and they are comfortable with that. The seem to be replacing their fleet of 777s with a larger number of 787s.
I guess American is tapering off of international routes then. Their Triples are ancient and I see no massive orders to replace them
Yep, just more 787s Dreamliners
*The Boeing 787 has a design cabin altitude of 6,000 ft, the A350 is set even lower at 5,500 ft.*
*The cabins are pressurized and maintain this level regardless of cruising altitude, be that 30,000 ft or 40,000 ft.*
May 9, 2023
Wish that AA considered ordering the A320neos. And if they were to consider order of a Wide-Body aircraft in future...I would love to see them consider the 777-200lr.
AA already have over 200 A320-200’s. I think they are focusing more on slightly higher capacity newer AB aircrafts. For example, AA have 70 A321-NEOs and a backlog or 95 orders.
I do agree they would benefit of newer A320 as they average 18 yo and the. NEOs would be an excellent choice…we will see what happens?
Many people are not noticing that Airbus is no longer selling a lot of A320s. The majority of the NEO order is for the A321. The Max 8 is outselling the A320 by a lot.
Looks like a strategy as Delta has no interest in the A320 Neo either and has stated they will replace them with the MAX and A321.
Great to see Embraer mixing it with the big boys. Had to smile when you mentioned the order for 737 10s 😊. A deal, no doubt at bargain basement prices and purely because Airbus can't build A321s fast enough for American
Just flew Jetstar’s A321 Neo, it was very disappointing. 28.5 inch seat pitch, only 3 toilets (tiny), and seats that might as well be a bare metal frame, the padding was nonexistent
It it's a Boeing it ain't going.
Having flown both the A321NEO is far superior to the MAX9 or the yet to be certified MAX10, which I'm sure will have a ludicrously fast approach speed, and with its Frankin Gear of boy lets just hope door issues are the least we hav to worry about.
You just know Boeing offered one hell of a discount to get this order. Everyone will be stuck buying some Maxes because the wait for Airbus is too much.
They are buying more Boeings? Are they nuts? I wouldn't want to fly on a Boeing ever. Rather get more Airbus aircraft, your passengers will love you.
What is the future in the US for TurboProps like the DASH8 and larger variants?
Basically nil. The DHC8 is no longer in production and the ATRs issues with icing makes in unsuitable for the majority of the US domestic market
The travel booking website kayak now let you select the equipment that you would like to fly on. I.e. not Boeing.!
Good that they support Embraer, they deserve it. Pity the scope clauses don't allow other models.
Ordering the MAXes was predictable in any order. Boeing would be even more mocked and disgraced if that happened, and it's another US company. And likely they got a huge sale price on those, bargain cheap. And Airbus has a waiting list a mile long.
Let's see if they get their MAX10s before the A320s, certification perspectives are terrible, and are now completely out of their hands.
I am surprised not many international carriers are buying the C919.
Did american buy the Embraers for their regional partners or the actual mainline airline?
They lease everything
I’m really interested to know why did they not order the A220-100, or the E175-E2?
The A220 would be introducing a new aircraft type, meaning more training and staffing costs.
Considering that since the start of the pandemic, AA has retired the 757, 767, A330, and Embrear 195, adding a type probably was not likely.
The pilot scope clause won’t allow the E2 unless it’s flown at the mainline.
mainline scope clauses limit regional aircraft seating capacity to 76 seats. So you'll never see the 190 or the E2 at regional airlines, and they are just too small to run for mainlines. ULCC's however are free to use them if they like. Breeze for example had some 190's but the CEO really likes the A220 over the Embraer jet.
@@genxer74 However the 175 E2 is the same size as the 175, but more efficient. It baffles me that AA has gone for the older model.
@@lawrencepll76they are heavier and dont fit the scope clause.
That's good news for American Airlines. They do need to replace the former America West / US Airways A319s & A320s. They are getting on in age now..
on the other hand the Airbus dont loose doors midflight or crash due to Boeing made a computer system they forgot to tell pilots about
They’re not replacing the A319s or A320s. The part of the press release that this video missed was that the A319s and A320s will be retrofitted to the same standard as the A321 and 737-800s starting this year.
Don’t know how you concluded that AA have been using the A320 for several decades, when the inaugural flight for the A321 was in 1990. Airbus was formed in 1970!
It’s in its 4th decade of manufacture? It is several decades …
@@thomasfy4 if a decade is 10 years. How can it be several decades?
@@mannythelimodriver6003several does not mean 7 lol 😂
@@thomasfy4 so instead of laughing about it. Care to explain instead?
@@mannythelimodriver6003 it means more than 2 but less than say 10? There is google you know to explain these things.
Boeing is going to include door bolts at no extra charge.
With this Embraer order, I’d be curious if American would be quietly stepping up lobbying efforts to expand the Scope Clause that currently excludes the newer, more efficient Embraer E175-E2 & this current EJet order is getting American their foot in the door & place in the queue.
i would love a reworked scope clause to accommodate the E2 jet. The GW limit is needs updating to accommodate these larger enginest
@@soccerguy2433 The current limit of MTOW is 86k LBS, which does seem sort of arbitrary, but I guess the line had to be drawn somewhere🤷♂️. However, in my admittedly uninformed view on the topic, if there are still only 76 seats, does it meaningfully change the "passenger experience"? Or Operating dynamics? Should an aircraft be over this magic MTOW number.
A scope clause is not something that is "lobbied" anywhere. It is part of the working contract between American Airlines and their pilots. If the company wants to change the scope clause, it has to be negotiated during the next employment contract negotiations between management and pilots at that airline. Right now, no mainline pilots anywhere in the US are interested or willing to allow scope to be expanded because that allows more outsourcing of their jobs. Asking a major airline pilot to allow expanded scope is analogous to asking them to allow their jobs to be outsourced to lower-paid pilots working for another company. Would anyone with a highly skilled, difficult-to-get job agree to that? Also keep in mind, AA (or DAL or UAL) is free to order as many Embraer E2s as they want-- they just have to be operated by the mainline airline, instead of outsourced to Envoy, Republic, Skywest, or some other regional carrier.
@@flaps45 Current trend seems to suggest scope clause won't be relieved any time soon. Pilots are hard to get, and airlines have to upgauge and raise pay to cope with it. It's unlikely the unions would give in when things are in their favour.
@@flaps45 If American is going to be the operator of these aircraft, then not selecting the E175-E2 makes even less sense. If the aim of this order is for a modern, efficient fleet, why would they choose a design that's new & improved? The E175 is a stretch of the E170, which was announced in 1999, had its maiden fight in 2002, & entered service in 2004. Meaning American just bought a 20+yr old design. Why not see if Airbus & Boeing would be interested in building American some A321ceo & 737NG. RN, the E175-E2 program, which was originally planned to enter service in 2021, has been halted. However, with sufficient incentive, I wouldn't be surprised if Embraer could be persuaded to spin development back up.
Me thinks the MAX10 order involved some favorable pricing. A deal they couldn’t refuse, and the fact Airbus deliveries are maxed out.
The fielding of the B-737 Max 10 will begin a new era of tail strikes on take-off, too. Just wait and see.
When will the 737's be certified; a better question is when will Boeing lose it's feckless employees including top mgmt? This American Airlines order gives the shareholders a ray of hope.
The reason LAX/PHX seems like a “Birthing Center”…I like that BTW….an Airbus Mill….especially 321NEO is one simple market…..”Hawaii”. Yes the Neos, can and frequently do domestic flights from LAX/PHX, but the other 321 types, can’t go ETOPS required for Hawaii.
American trying to be like Air India by doing a large order of multiple manufacturers
I think the opposite! American Airlines has had a diverse fleet now for decades and their business model is being adopted by other airline carriers…
Umm…More like Air India trying to be like America. Don’t forget that American once placed the largest ever single order back in 2011 for 460 aircrafts
American Airlines should take optional stop bolts.
Totally unexpected when i first heard that news from American.
2020 : Many old planes at American are retired.
2024 : More new planes are coming soon to American.
Nice to have some Airbus aircraft when all the Boeing aircrafts are grounded.
Who is most likely to be the regional partner for the 90 Embraers?
Either Envoy Air, Republic Airways or SkyWest are the most probable since they already operate a lot of E175s.
AAL just showed their employees that growth and expansion doesn't matter with ZERO widebody orders. They're content with being a second class feeder company. Shame on APA.
Given the current status of the 737 max program, I can very easily see American Airlines ditching that order and proceeding with a much larger Airbus fleet given the current FAA review of Boeing
You wouldn’t get me to fly on a 737MAX.
The problem has been fixed.
I think the Max 10 is intended to replace the 757s they retired.
I thought airlines were replacing the 757s with A321NEOs?
@@scottfleckner9658a bit of both. At the end of the day no aircraft can replace the 757 100%
The Embraer's are the 757 replacements.
@@dcxplant The Emb’s only carry 76 passengers? I don’t believe they are the 757 replacements
@@dcxplantthe A321s are.
the A321-200 Neo & it's variants can single handedly cater to American Airlines need for single aisle aircraft that'll serve their vast domestic network . . . alternative single aisle narrow body jets like the B737-MAX9 & B737-MAX10 are just not needed, or the Embraer E-195 LR E2 for that matter . . . because the A321-200 Neo can do it all . . . look how IndiGo operates a fleet of only A321-200 Neo & A320-200 Neo narrow body jets . . . the low cost budget carrier has an order for a further 182 brand new A321-200 Neo & A321-200 Neo LR single-aisle narrow body jets as of 2023 . . .
are737 max variants currently suffering serious quality issues causing serious operating failures failures?
I guess that American Airlines execs did not watch Last Week Tonight's focus on Boeing on Sunday night's show.
why should they need to?
@@nickolliver3021because they talked about stuff you wouldn’t like to hear
@@tomstravels520 says you who has no idea and says anything that comes to first thought
@@nickolliver3021 go and watch it then and tell me you enjoyed it. Considering a lot of it is what people say here and you get snappy at them I can imagine you throwing the remote at the tv
@@nickolliver3021 go and watch it then and tell me how much you enjoyed it
Sound like AA is spreading it’s investments across the three aircraft manufacturers.
Interesting that they chose Embraer but not A220
SCOPE and route issues don't allow that aircraft to be flown.
Please just do some research
bravo DJ. keeping unleashing such brilliant analysis away. Thank you 🙌🏻
I hope American 🇺🇸 comes back to Dubuque with E175 E-1
American Airlines just refuses to order the 777-X dont they lol
I know right
I guess I’m confused as to why AA and DL ordered the -10 and 321NEOs when they have similar amount of seats and range.
The 737 is a bit more durable and better for higher cycles, while the Airbus is better for longer routes.
Where are all these new planes supposed to fit, in our already-crowded skies? The nightmare cometh.
Crowded airports as well. A lot of the footage shown here was at LAX, and LAX has been running out of room over the past couple of years. They are literally taking down older structures (maintenance hangars) in order to build new terminal / gate areas. It was already a nightmare trying to move aircraft between hangars and terminals in the morning, taking 45 minutes to get an aircraft to its gate when without traffic it would take less than 5 minutes.
If American wanted to add to its Embraer fleet, shouldn’t they’ve ordered the E175-E2?
Scope clauses prevent that
To get the scope clause mended was probably a reason too for the failed merger of Boeing and Embraer.
How much leverage Embraer has now to get it mended is questionable.
I was not surprised by them ordering the MAX but by them going for the MAX 10 instead. So now AA and DL have both expressed their confidence on said model. Looks like UA now stands alone on its opinion.
United are committed to the 737-10
Please, find any kind of plane besides Boeing....
Boeing will never clean up their production issues as long as airlines keep letting them off the hook for the shoddy work they do. The FTSB is all over them for failing to hand over information they asked for two months ago. For myself, I'm at the point I'll see when an Airbus has been scheduled for the route and stick to it.
Wow. And here i thought AA wouldnt order new airplanes
You know with all of the MAX issues going on American negotiated some very good pricing for the MAX order, as they had Boeing in a tight spot with these aircraft not being produced for the near future. And all of the pluses talked about for the MAX aircraft are great on paper, but they won't mean much if any of them literally drop out of the sky.
Speaking of a good deal, when American started ordering Airbus aircraft about 10 years ago now, in an admission from their own executives, they secured such a good deal on the order that they are willing to overlook the nagging every day maintenance issues that cause delays when they start their morning schedule. So of course they are ordering more neos, as they will be getting the best lease deals possible. And for those that don't know, everything is now leased by American, even all of the parts for these aircraft. Nothing owned makes it much easier if / when they need to bail.
Might as well end on the negotiated deal theme. By ordering the number of aircraft American has, including the Embraer aircraft order just mentioned, not only are they getting a great initial deal on the aircraft, the lease deals give them an out. These aircraft will take years to get delivered, and a lot can / will happen with the airlines over this time frame. The lease deals allow them to back out of certain parts of these orders when needed, all while the top executives are raking in the money.
Availability of aircraft
Various Chinese Airlines have 500-1000 new aircraft to sell to save them from bankruptcy. This would fill the gap in western airlines who cannot get enough from the manufacturers.
737-10. Basically 757 style passenger load.
Embraer is 80% owned by Boeing, So same company as Boeing. So only two companies bought from. Boeing and Airbus. Very surprised at the 737 order but one has to ask, how much was the discount? Its good for Boeing, IF they can get their management to understand that they are not building w/machines. Plus it just shows how tied up Airbus are with orders and supply problems.
I wish Boeing well, for the sake of their employee's, the management will walk away with huge sums as usual, when they leave. Just like the last lot.
Good morning , i would like to know if you have a channel for latin people who do not speak english ?
I wonder if Boeing will throw in some extra door nuts to sweeten the deal?
From Airbus, right not Boeing the junkyard of the sky😂
I think that Boeing sells the MAX as buy one get one free.... 🤣🤣
Embraer really needed this order!
Fr
@@EuropeanRailfanAlt keep that production line going
Well, it's sadly not part of the E2 series, which would make far more sense. But the scope clause says no.
Not sure if Embraer can get the scope clause modified, but it would serve everyone if done in a sensible way.
@@humongousballs I can only guess that the failed Boeing & Embraer merger might have had this too as a reason, in order to boost E2 sales.
This is good information to know. I like hearing about the overall fleet expansions by airlines.
Onee delivered 😂.
Try reporting on the actual price paid for those dangerous 737 Max planes
How is american airlines going to pay for all these planes? We've being told, over and over again how difficult it is to be profitable in the airline industry by airlines nowadays. Have we been lied to all along over the years? Possibly..😔