KT-77s all the way! 👍🏻 That’s the thick, clear, yet spongy tone I expect from a VH4. The 6L6s aren’t bad but brought the amp into a more mundane territory: EVH, Mesa, etc. Thanks for this demo! 👍🏻
Diezel “crunch” channels seem to nail that VH1-2 brown sound so well. I have another Diezel in for a service. I’m pretty close to getting rid of some gear to get one. I’m in love with them.
6L6s are 2 Watts more powerful than KT77 if I recall. The perceived differences are due to the difference in the mids section. 6L6s are hollow, KT77 more in your face, tighter for sure. I tried 6L6s and I liked'em but I came back to KT77.
Great vid jase 👍 The 6l6 sounded a bit darker with slightly less gain kt77 bit brighter more gain. Tbh both tubes sounded great also different brand tubes have an impact on tone as well. I got distracted by the headfirst head on the floor 😂👍❤️
I definitely like it better with the 6L6s. These kinds of amps need a cleaner midrange, especially low-mids. What I’m hearing is the 6L6 made the lows deeper, but much cleaner and the mids became a bit less murky. So the amp seems to have more punch now. It’s less raw, but you hear the fundamental of the amp’s character noticeably better. It’s focused
Sounds exactly the same. I made a Null test of this record to filter the differences they are none. The only difference is Volume. Beware of Psychoacustic effect of loudness. ( They why Records got more compressed and louder of the year. Louder is recognized as better sounding ). Also a Microphone adds differences, lower or higher volume will change the tone that the mics captures.
Hmmm may have to try 6L6's in mine. I like the tones but also I WOULD like that volume drop. I use a 4X12 Diezel rear loaded cab and wow... it is so loud. I use a Bugera PS-1 to soak up the volume and it makes it great at any volume.... but interesting that the volumes goes down.
I lol’d pretty hard when you complained about the weight. I’ve had 2 Einstein’s (one was a combo, heavier than a boogie MKIV combo) and a Herbert. All boat anchors
It's a very different and clean look, too. Did Diezel really improve in design in making the Herbert from the original VH4? My herbert Mark 2 looks very different inside.
love mine no need to change tubes just play it and love it put a friedman be-100 with it through the front out and ran them stereo and no more tone chasing game over finished
Nice Video! I used to own a VH-2 (very similar to the VH-4). It came with the Kt77s and I always thought it sounded kinda brittle and spongy, (Even with an Overdrive) in the lowend. Maybe I should have changed the Power Tubes to get rid of it!
Great clip mate. Always thought they were a bit over priced and over hyped for what they cost, esp in Oz. Can't complain about the tone though...killer.
hey great video thank you very much for taking the time to film it but during your play thru it made me laugh seeing your dog arrise from the dead because you killed him with your shredding haha how loudly do you usually play at? for him to be comfortable sleeping it must not be to loud.
Love your vids mate. Curious , what year is that VH4? I bought mine brand new in2018 and don’t think it has the bias switch inside. I must say that my VH4 is just epic, never disappointed with it. I went from the JJ kt77 tubes to TAD EL34bstr tubes and then 7025 in the pre amp section. Sounds awesome…. Well to my ears.👍
You didn’t the bias switch going from kt77 to el 34 . If you wanted too 6l6 you would have to use the switch . I saw this go wrong once and it is scary
@@techdeathhippie6319 I take the amp to a tech when I change tubes and it gets re-biased each time. You can pretty much run whatever you want , EL34 , kt77, 6ca7,6l6. The only ones Peter Diezel advises against putting in the VH4 are the big bottles like 6550 or kt88 as the amp runs too hot.
That sounds nice. I'm not a metal player, and I am looking at a diezel dmoll. I've used a mesa triaxis for the past 3 decades and like the friedman od100 deluxe, the Bray 4550 deluxe, the Suhr Hedgehog and a few others. Do you know if I can use the deep knob to remove a lot of the thickness?
Yes you can dial out the thickness. The deep knob is the bass control and the presence the treble control. The other three really affect the midrange. All Diezel high gain amps have a thick lower midrange though.
I think the Herbert mark 3 has a more pronounced upper midrange than the 2 and 1. I think with the Herbert, they keep tweaking them a little to infer variety, and maybe an updated sound with each new mark. The Hagen was an update of the Vh4 here, mostly for deeper, yet tighter deep bass, for 7 strings and low tuned 6 string guitars, for a more modern style of metal, that became popular, The herbert is rougher, higher wattage at 180 watts, with external bias trim points on the back. Make deeper bass, not as tight as the Hagen, 3 channels and more features than the Vh4. I'd like to see a video on the VH4s, the stereo VH4.
I know the pcb guy you mentioned. Matter of fact I got a vh4 pcb from him lol. Nice vid, there aren’t a ton of clear videos that go through all the channels with passive pickups and an LP. Do you think you’ll ever build one? Nice guitar also, I bet you are a happy man!
Now that would make an awsome video!! You could do your usual educational circuit analysis while you’re at it, those are really helpful. I have vh-2 and would like to understand why it sounds like it does. Thanks for the video.
Another great video! This kinda proves my dislike of kt77 tubes. they have a grainy 'honkyness' to them that just doesnt sit right to my ears. For me sounded great with the KT77 but amazing with the 6l6. In My Diezel D-Moll I found JJ6CA7 suited it really well had the el34 mids but with the 6l6 low extension which seemed to let the amp breathe a little more.
@@HeadfirstAmps they’re actually shipping with 6L6’s at the minute due to not being able to get hold of KT77’s. I asked Peter and he said he hopes to have KT77’s back early 2022.
Hey there! I am looking at the d-moll and I'm not a metal player and like the lead sound, can you tell me if the deep knob can remove most of the thickness on the low end. I need a versatile amp, but like the price of a used d-moll?
No it's not. Adam uses Ruby el34bht. He posted a video of his blueface getting a retube. He uses bht in all of his amps except his mesa triple rec which is 6l6.
I'm not a Jones fanatic at all, I'm just going by what Friedman mentioned years ago when servicing one of his amps, i'm sure stuff changes constantly across various heads too
I don’t really like 6l6’s on hi gain amps. They sound hollow to me. They kind of lack some midrange and the bass is too loose. I do like a lot kt66’s. Actually 66’s are my favorite on hi gain amps because I do like their distortion tone and they also sound beautiful on the cleans. They have a complex harmonic content that El34’s kind of tubes don’t have. From what you showed, I prefer the 77’s. As I said I don’t like 6l6’s distortion. Sound dark, no midrange magic. The bass was loose on the 77’s more than the 6l6’s but that midrange was great compared to the 6L 6’s.
I can easily tell the difference between el54 and 6l6 tubs, just like there's a difference between Marshall amps and fenders. On a 180 watt Herbert, do you really need a change in volume? Besides my Herbert's Distortion us said to be great at low volume as well as high volumes, the preamp tubes provide most of the gain. For those who are considering a Herbert.
@@HeadfirstAmps yep and as I recall there are some spots labeled ? in the layouts / schematic for it. Was just wondering if you were going to go over them for any potential updates since you had your hands on one of the these. Not a big deal, there's more than enough there to do a build.
can you maybe tell what IR exactly is that ? I would like to try with my diezel, how close I can get it to sound like yours, sounds amazeballs, thanks :)
KT-77s all the way! 👍🏻
That’s the thick, clear, yet spongy tone I expect from a VH4. The 6L6s aren’t bad but brought the amp into a more mundane territory: EVH, Mesa, etc.
Thanks for this demo! 👍🏻
Diezel “crunch” channels seem to nail that VH1-2 brown sound so well. I have another Diezel in for a service. I’m pretty close to getting rid of some gear to get one. I’m in love with them.
KT77s for me. Thanks for doing this video, now I don´t think about the 6L6 for the VH4 anymore ;)
Same here! The KTs can stay!
How did I miss this video?! Sounds awesome man!
Great video for anyone wanting to change tubes in their VH-4! Sounds awesome!!
6L6s are 2 Watts more powerful than KT77 if I recall. The perceived differences are due to the difference in the mids section. 6L6s are hollow, KT77 more in your face, tighter for sure. I tried 6L6s and I liked'em but I came back to KT77.
Great vid jase 👍
The 6l6 sounded a bit darker with slightly less gain
kt77 bit brighter more gain.
Tbh both tubes sounded great also different brand tubes have an impact on tone as well.
I got distracted by the headfirst head on the floor 😂👍❤️
I definitely like it better with the 6L6s. These kinds of amps need a cleaner midrange, especially low-mids. What I’m hearing is the 6L6 made the lows deeper, but much cleaner and the mids became a bit less murky. So the amp seems to have more punch now. It’s less raw, but you hear the fundamental of the amp’s character noticeably better. It’s focused
Sounds exactly the same. I made a Null test of this record to filter the differences they are none. The only difference is Volume. Beware of Psychoacustic effect of loudness. ( They why Records got more compressed and louder of the year. Louder is recognized as better sounding ). Also a Microphone adds differences, lower or higher volume will change the tone that the mics captures.
That amp and that bridge pickup just seems to work!
Hmmm may have to try 6L6's in mine. I like the tones but also I WOULD like that volume drop. I use a 4X12 Diezel rear loaded cab and wow... it is so loud. I use a Bugera PS-1 to soak up the volume and it makes it great at any volume.... but interesting that the volumes goes down.
Great video . It’s so cool to watch stuff like this
Hey, thanks man. Appreciate the feedback!
@@HeadfirstAmps thus video helps . I’m in sane situation. Bought one used and want to put 6l6s in . So this helps
I lol’d pretty hard when you complained about the weight. I’ve had 2 Einstein’s (one was a combo, heavier than a boogie MKIV combo) and a Herbert. All boat anchors
Oh man, this thing a serious commitment!
@@HeadfirstAmps , amazing how little there is to that amp. The Einstein and Herbert has way more going on inside.
It's a very different and clean look, too. Did Diezel really improve in design in making the Herbert from the original VH4? My herbert Mark 2 looks very different inside.
love mine no need to change tubes just play it and love it put a friedman be-100 with it through the front out and ran them stereo and no more tone chasing game over finished
Great Tones here mate! Cheers
Cool stuff! How close the vh4 ch3 preamp circuit is to VH2 ch2? Thank you for doing this video!
I use Ruby el34bht myself.
yep LOVE ta hv a VH-4......................................:)
Nice Video! I used to own a VH-2 (very similar to the VH-4). It came with the Kt77s and I always thought it sounded kinda brittle and spongy, (Even with an Overdrive) in the lowend. Maybe I should have changed the Power Tubes to get rid of it!
Great clip mate. Always thought they were a bit over priced and over hyped for what they cost, esp in Oz. Can't complain about the tone though...killer.
hey great video thank you very much for taking the time to film it but during your play thru it made me laugh seeing your dog arrise from the dead because you killed him with your shredding haha how loudly do you usually play at? for him to be comfortable sleeping it must not be to loud.
That sounds absolutely brutal! Could you please make a few captures for the QC? Thanks!
Have done, will load them up!
@@HeadfirstAmps thanks!!
Preferred the kt77!
Love your vids mate.
Curious , what year is that VH4? I bought mine brand new in2018 and don’t think it has the bias switch inside. I must say that my VH4 is just epic, never disappointed with it. I went from the JJ kt77 tubes to TAD EL34bstr tubes and then 7025 in the pre amp section. Sounds awesome…. Well to my ears.👍
Hey Simmo, thanks man. I think this one is a 2012.
You didn’t the bias switch going from kt77 to el 34 . If you wanted too 6l6 you would have to use the switch . I saw this go wrong once and it is scary
@@techdeathhippie6319
I take the amp to a tech when I change tubes and it gets re-biased each time. You can pretty much run whatever you want , EL34 , kt77, 6ca7,6l6. The only ones Peter Diezel advises against putting in the VH4 are the big bottles like 6550 or kt88 as the amp runs too hot.
I know how to bias an amp man
@@HeadfirstAmps
Haha my comment was not directed at you man . I was replying to a reply I received from techdeath hippie in the chat.
That sounds nice. I'm not a metal player, and I am looking at a diezel dmoll. I've used a mesa triaxis for the past 3 decades and like the friedman od100 deluxe, the Bray 4550 deluxe, the Suhr Hedgehog and a few others. Do you know if I can use the deep knob to remove a lot of the thickness?
Yes you can dial out the thickness. The deep knob is the bass control and the presence the treble control. The other three really affect the midrange. All Diezel high gain amps have a thick lower midrange though.
I think the Herbert mark 3 has a more pronounced upper midrange than the 2 and 1. I think with the Herbert, they keep tweaking them a little to infer variety, and maybe an updated sound with each new mark. The Hagen was an update of the Vh4 here, mostly for deeper, yet tighter deep bass, for 7 strings and low tuned 6 string guitars, for a more modern style of metal, that became popular, The herbert is rougher, higher wattage at 180 watts, with external bias trim points on the back. Make deeper bass, not as tight as the Hagen, 3 channels and more features than the Vh4. I'd like to see a video on the VH4s, the stereo VH4.
I know the pcb guy you mentioned. Matter of fact I got a vh4 pcb from him lol. Nice vid, there aren’t a ton of clear videos that go through all the channels with passive pickups and an LP. Do you think you’ll ever build one? Nice guitar also, I bet you are a happy man!
Thanks Shane! I do man, I’ve got a donor amp that I’m planning to gut and do a VH2 kinda thing with it. Need more time!
Now that would make an awsome video!! You could do your usual educational circuit analysis while you’re at it, those are really helpful. I have vh-2 and would like to understand why it sounds like it does. Thanks for the video.
Another great video! This kinda proves my dislike of kt77 tubes. they have a grainy 'honkyness' to them that just doesnt sit right to my ears. For me sounded great with the KT77 but amazing with the 6l6. In My Diezel D-Moll I found JJ6CA7 suited it really well had the el34 mids but with the 6l6 low extension which seemed to let the amp breathe a little more.
Interesting that Diezel ship these with KT77’s as standard now. I’d like to try EL34’s too.
@@HeadfirstAmps they’re actually shipping with 6L6’s at the minute due to not being able to get hold of KT77’s. I asked Peter and he said he hopes to have KT77’s back early 2022.
Hey there! I am looking at the d-moll and I'm not a metal player and like the lead sound, can you tell me if the deep knob can remove most of the thickness on the low end. I need a versatile amp, but like the price of a used d-moll?
I prefer the sound of the 6L6’s. Sounds like it would cut through a mix better.
77s have the 6L6 pegged in this one.
Ha love the dog without a care in the world. I prefer the 6L6 tone from that amp.
And those kt77 were tired too, lol
The kt77 had some serious low mids, and the 6l6 seems to have deeper lows.
Sounds killer in your hands mate. 6L6s all day for me, believe that's Adam Jones' preference too
Good to know re AJ! I didn’t realise that.
No it's not. Adam uses Ruby el34bht. He posted a video of his blueface getting a retube. He uses bht in all of his amps except his mesa triple rec which is 6l6.
I'm not a Jones fanatic at all, I'm just going by what Friedman mentioned years ago when servicing one of his amps, i'm sure stuff changes constantly across various heads too
No, Adam uses Ruby EL34
@@guitartonetopia You're right. He does use Ruby 6L6GCMSTR in at least one of his Blueface's. He posted a pic on Insta years ago.
Hello fellow tool fan. Where did you get that shirt??? 🌀🌀
dannycarey.org
Quick question: when you were reading the current with the bias probe did you remove the fuse on the corresponding tube? Thanks!!
Nope
@Headfirst Amplification What is so different in the power section of the VH4 vs. other amps?
Not much, it's pretty standard Marshall although the VH4's have a different resonance circuit.
I don’t really like 6l6’s on hi gain amps. They sound hollow to me. They kind of lack some midrange and the bass is too loose. I do like a lot kt66’s. Actually 66’s are my favorite on hi gain amps because I do like their distortion tone and they also sound beautiful on the cleans. They have a complex harmonic content that El34’s kind of tubes don’t have. From what you showed, I prefer the 77’s. As I said I don’t like 6l6’s distortion. Sound dark, no midrange magic. The bass was loose on the 77’s more than the 6l6’s but that midrange was great compared to the 6L 6’s.
Tubes dont change the sound just the volume.
You need sylvania shorts. That will solve that don’t bother with cheap china ruby. Get the American made sylvania 6l6.
I can easily tell the difference between el54 and 6l6 tubs, just like there's a difference between Marshall amps and fenders. On a 180 watt Herbert, do you really need a change in volume? Besides my Herbert's Distortion us said to be great at low volume as well as high volumes, the preamp tubes provide most of the gain. For those who are considering a Herbert.
Soooooo does this mean a confirmed layout / schematic for the VH4 board is coming :D
There is a VH board already available.
@@HeadfirstAmps yep and as I recall there are some spots labeled ? in the layouts / schematic for it. Was just wondering if you were going to go over them for any potential updates since you had your hands on one of the these. Not a big deal, there's more than enough there to do a build.
can you maybe tell what IR exactly is that ? I would like to try with my diezel, how close I can get it to sound like yours, sounds amazeballs, thanks :)
This was recorded with the ML Soundlab Friedman pack. M25 57A & 121A.
Can you use EL-34s in place of KT77s?
Yes
@@HeadfirstAmpsthought so. Thank you.
Please stop posting this VH4 vids. Im still far from completing my current pcb projects and now im checking for viable transformers for a VH4. Lol
Love these technical video. Your friend mentioned that the VH4 wasn't tight enough in the lows. Is is possible to correct this issue on VH2/4's?
They are insanely tight. Probably the only other amp that comes close to it is a vht pittbull. Vh2 is way loose compared to the Vh4 though.