Great Expectations Cave - Deepest Through-Trip in the US
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2020
- For more detailed information on caving techniques, caving gear, and cave projects, visit my website at: www.derekbristol.com
Caves are delicate and potentially dangerous places. For more information on wild caving, vertical caving techniques, and cave survey, visit the National Speleological Society website:
caves.org
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Fabulous video! Beautiful cave! Brings back lots of memories... We did the first thru-trip from bottom up and free-climbed the whole thing. Jeeze!...
Hey Pete. I mention your amazing through-trip in this video: czcams.com/video/xQEOPJgyZaU/video.html . I didn't realize there were no fixed ropes. I considered everything might be climbable except Connection Falls, where the top portion looked like it would be pretty sporting. I've been curious how many through-trips you've made, the fastest time you're aware of, and maybe the oldest person to have made it through. Thanks!
Hi Derek, Connection Falls wasn't too bad because of the great friction. Upstream from there the ropes were coiled at the tops of the pitches and we didn't have our ascending gear with us, but we were very familiar with the cave. The climb up to the Lunch Room was especially difficult. The fastest trips were when Don Coons and I did a solo cross-over trip in 1985. We'd been surveying for several weeks and were in pretty good shape. He did it from the top down and I think it took him about 7.5 hours. I went from bottom up and it took me about 8.5 hours. Coincidentally, we crossed at Connection Falls! I've done 8 thru-trips, 2 bottom up, 6 top down, the last being in 2005 when I was 50. Warren Anderson was also on that trip and I think he was 54. Good Caving!
Awesome! I figured that cross-over was probably the fastest. This trip was 9 hours. None of us had been all the way through, so none of us had seen from B-52 Falls down to the start of the GCoD. We had been surveying from the top and bottom though and were very familiar with the rest. I am 51 and being the oldest on a through-trip hadn't occurred to me until talking to Bob Montgomery. Maybe I'll need to do it again in a few years to set the record. There haven't been many through-trips lately - maybe only 3-4 since your trip in 2005. Bob has been concerned about losing some of the knowledge about the cave as we transition to the next generation. This renewed exploration effort should get a lot of people re-familiarized. I'll PM you with the expedition report once completed.
I figured you had a quick trip, you were all moving real smooth in the video. I've thought about doing it again but at 65 it would be quite a bit more risky than usual. I'm very glad to hear you're getting people re-familiarized with it. In 2005 I compiled a comprehensive digital record of everything ever written about the cave, all photos ever taken, thru-trip directions, and the entire survey. I distributed it to as many people I cold think of. Let me know if it would be helpful to you and I'll send you a copy (~1GB).
Did you really free climb up to the Great Hall?
I had assumed that was rigged from visits earlier during the same expedition.
Haha. "can i see you permit?" That was hilarious. Especially if that was directed to Hazel!
Someone needs to check that Hazel is following the rules.
The summer of 2003, several months after the NSS acquired the upper entrance of Great X, Kristen Bobo, Bill Putnam, John Swartz, Jeb Blakley, and myself dug out the sand crawl that leads to the Great Exit. The next day we were thwarted by route finding, as guide Jeb hadn't been in the cave in 15 years. After a brief call to Pete Shifflet late that afternoon we understood our route finding error. The next morning Jeb & I successfully completed the first through trip of this Super Alpine Cave to be made in years. The video is awesome & certainly brings back the experience I had from years ago of that then 51 year guy. THANKS!
This seemed a bit more intense then my self guided tour at mammoth cave earlier this month. Very cool video.
Met a guy that did that trip and he said his toes were numb for weeks afterwards! I couldn’t imagine how cold it must’ve been. Y’all made it look too easy. Great work! Thanks so much for sharing your well made video.
WHAT A CAVE! That was incredible! The chert in that cave was some of the best I've seen before. Amazing!
That was one great trip! What a beautiful and sporting cave. I'd love to do a through trip like that, but at 66, I don't think I'd have the stamina for Great X. I hope to do a few tourist trips here in West Virginia... I haven't caved in way too long. My lights are still carbide...
You need more views man! Underrated channel
Looks like an amazing through trip. The chert layers in the stream way look brilliant.
amazing!!!! thank you! this is imo the best channel on youtube
Thanks so much!
A fitting video for an epic adventure. Well done.
Such an incredible video, and you all navigated it so well, this cave is out of my league but it's so fun to see such a successful trip!
Very nice. Thank you for bringing that experience to my living room you guys. :)
Awesome footage! Thank you for sharing!
Thanks Derek. Awesome video and cave.
Great video Derek!!
Thanks Will!
Nice work, glad to have met up with you there!
Thanks for your help Kasey!
Stunning cave. That hallway at 13:10 is a standout. This is as much canyoneering as caving. Great vid!
awesome, love that drone shot at the beginning!!
I worked at Sinks Canyon from May, 80 to Aug, 81. I am from Indiana and had explored many vertical caves here. This was a very tempting trip to me, I'm sorry I missed out.
Incredible video in every way. Very well done. What an adventure. Very impressed.
NSS 27525
Thanks Richard? NSS 34941
In Bigfoot Cave in California has the “ lurking fear “ very similar. You fear the water doesn’t rise
Wow what an adventure! Looks a little dangerous yet must be exciting. Thanks for another awesome and entertaining video Derek.
You're welcome... and you are correct, this cave is simultaneously dangerous and exciting. Knowledge of the cave and having the right gear are critical to having a safe trip.
Nice job Derek. You did a good job of capturing the flavor of the cave, especially the stream passage.
Thanks so much Jeb. You guys found a real gem here. Surveying the entirety of the river is daunting. Don't know how you managed in the era of Bruntons and Suuntos.
@@DerekBristol Having a carbide heater on our helmets was a lifesaver at times. IIRC, the deepest down-and-back-up survey trip was Miles Hecker, Paul Hill and me to Connection Falls. You'll need lower water than in your video for a trip like that. I free climbed the falls but since we didn't have a rope, we didn't push further.
The lower part was surveyed from the bottom up. Pete has that info. It goes much better when the crew memorizes the route thru the Grim Crawl and the harder stream climbs.
The point about the heat source is you'll last a lot longer if you have a way of warming your hands.
Paul H. here (see Jeb's comment below)
Kids these days with their fancy video equipment! :)
Actually, a lovely video!
As Jeb mentioned, we laid some of those survey points; maybe somewhere in the B survey and up in that dry bypass shown at 11:16. That's not dry looking? Compared to the river it is dry!
I was noticing the high water too. What was the sequence? Jeb and I did the Grim Crawl from the bottom to check out the route. Then later returned for the through trip that failed. There weren't any signs or pre-rigged ropes and we didn't get good enough rigging directions and ran out of rope. Ooops! I belayed Jeb down one more falls with a piece of webbing I had by sitting in the water at the lip of the falls - Brrrr! Jeb declared it over when he walked down, climbed a few more to find yet another falls - I guess was actually connection falls. I guess we could have climbed down the last few cascades from there, but we didn't want to pull /climb down not knowing if there was actually yet another falls too tall to scramble down with just my piece of webbing.
Down and then back out from there was hard, and then there was me walking overland down canyon the SAME DAY to retrieve my overnight camping bag I had stashed at the lower entrance to await my coming out the lower entrance. I wasn't going to drive back the 7-8 hours to the Bighorns from Salt Lake before the snows flew, so despite being drained I had to do the hike down and back, and then drive to SLC. I might have been late for work the next day...
My biggest mistake walking down canyon was picking up Miles' pack too only to NOT meet him coming down the trail, so I had to carry his pack and mine all the way to camp; where would I have left his? I gave Miles more then a few stern looks when I found out he had decided not to walk down too.
Oh those were the days!
Hey Jeb! Winter will be here soon. No need to hole up. Come on down to AZ and we'll do some hiking. John Wyeth lives here too and we hit the mountains pretty hard every weekend. Join us!
Grim Crawl: at no other time in my Life have I been so FRIGHTENED than the "Grim Crawl of Death".
There was an incredible article in an outdoor magazine about twenty five years ago which really described it well.
Now, it ain't no picnic, but I thought that article in Outside put a little too much bravado into it.
vault.si.com/vault/1988/05/02/black-walls-cold-fear-a-journey-into-the-bizarre-underworld-of-caving#:~:text=Pete%20Shifflett%2C%20the%20world%2Dclass,stop%20in%20there%2C%20you%20die.&text=This%20passage%E2%80%94seen%20by%20only,the%20Grim%20Crawl%20of%20Death.
What was it. The claustrophobia? The water to ceiling height. ? The way the groove you’re crawling down pinches out and you have find another ? There’s a cave in California about 18 miles long it’s alpine and freezing and there’s a similar crawl called the “ lurking fear”. You have this fear in the back of your mind that there’s no storms or rises in the water level even an inch. Of course the water temp is 36* which doesn’t help. The other fear is taking too long and getting cold.
That's so awesome - as a non-caver that all looked super fun until the very end and even the grim crawl of death had people laughing in it.
yay you're back! I like how you label the areas in the corner....I would still rather just hear the natural cave sounds though...yes I can mute but then if you speak I can't hear what you are saying! Nicely shot.
I was always curious on the tho trip! I'm one of the lucky ones who can say that I have been in this amazing Cave but also will say ot was the one cave that scared me also. Keeps that healthy respect for caves in check for sure! I was wondering if you were from Wyoming. Or Grotto "The Hole in the Wall" All pretty much moved away but a few of us My Guy and I miss being underground and was thinking if you were from here it would be exciting to meet fellow Caver and maybe start getting underground again even if it was mostly my Boyfriend he was the one who got me into it and I know he misses it! Just a thought Anyways amazing video and great work!
DAMN SKIPPY! Great job!
OMG. That 's awesome trip. I'm like it.
This gives 'wet' a completely new dimension :-)
ive been there alot its great
The video quality is just amazing. I have been trying do do more video and in cave it very hard. I know a lot has to do with post editing. I am using a go pro 8. I wouldn't trust taking my full frame Nikon in there. I plan on buying a Sony A7RIII but not for caving. My big question is the lighting. Are you using Sten lights? just the headlamp or additional light sources? Maybe its just the setting on the Sony camera that let you pick up that much light source or smaller passages. Passages in West Virginia are Immense and difficult to light up.
Bad ass! Makes me wanna start spelunking.. besides the grim crawl.. screw that haha
Look at the clarity of the water….
Prickliest cave Ive ever seen. Great video!
my mom, and my uncles and I were born in worland and my grandma was born in greybull soo I’ve pretty much explored everywhere there
Thanks for an amazing video! I wonder if the first person who went through that crawl did it from above or below? It would have been so scary going down from above wondering if it might pinch out!!! :-O
It was Pete Shifflett and Tom Miller. See Pete's post above. They did it from the bottom up, but this is not the easy way at all, going against the current and ascending 1,400 feet.
Nice vid! I think you should have used Modest Mouse in the GCD.
Why do I get the feeling you're messing with me
Fantastic underground water slide. Is the velcro boxwork, or just the intense scalloping of a very active stream? Cherty, too. Primal drums good choice for soundtrack, considering. Also, I left a poem called "Hidden Indiana" on a previous video's comment section when I found out you started your caving career there. I put it on about a week after the video came out. Anyway, it was the video with the emblem "IT GOES" and documented 100 survey shots in Wind cave. Seems no cave you enter goes unextended.
Thanks Mark. Haven't seen the poem. I'll have a look. The "velcro" rock is heavily scalloped dolomite, and yes there are many chert nodules.
I'd have to pass on the Grim Crawl of Death ... lol. Just the short crawl in Spider Cave creeped me out. I made sure I was either first or last.
that is gnarly and nightmarish
Nicely done Derek, it gives a real feel for what traveling through the cave is like. It seemed like so much water towards the top, and not a much larger volume deeper down. I would presume it picks up water from other infeeders but perhaps not? And geologically, it seems strange that the water carved mostly walking height canyons but then not in the grim crawl. Any idea why its so different there, maybe a different layer of dolomite that is more resistant?
It definitely picks up some infeeders along the way. Much of what you see in the Grim Crawl represents only a portion of the water. It's divided into multiple channels. The preferred route follows the maximum water flow, but it's never all in one channel. Not sure what changed with the geology, but it definitely does change. My guess is that the water hits the underlying sandstone at the grim crawl so it's confined to that bedding plane. Same dolomite bedrock though.
that one beautiful stream way would love to visit one day reminds me of ofd1 or swildons hole in the uk but a lot longer (the streamway that is, how much side passage is there?)
There's quite a bit, though much of it wasn't surveyed during the original exploration, which is part of the justification for surveying again. Video of OFDII here: czcams.com/video/MXvBLFcQNxw/video.html and a video of Swildons Hole (at the end) here: czcams.com/video/RVmN65I038M/video.html
Idk why I find water in caves creepy, and now that there's a waterfall in the middle of dark cave scares me even more.
I didn't see a name for the section at 11:23. Might I suggest "The Duodenum?"
Also, what was your lighting configuration for your helmet camera?
There any particular watch make+model you use to keep track of the time and day/night down there?
Wow i had now idea you had proper streamway caves in the US. It looked like a Yorkshire pothole on steroids.
Incredible.
Looks like an old gate in the Crisco Crack?
Know what those lines of black deposits are along the walls?
Those black deposits look like chert.
I was interested too, so searched for the geology and yes those are black chert ledges and nodules. Here's a link to the information: caves.org/preserves/gxcp/mp-grtx.shtml
@@syzygy2043 Thanks! Chert: a hard, dark, opaque rock composed of silica (chalcedony) with an amorphous or microscopically fine-grained texture. It occurs as nodules (flint) or, less often, in massive beds.
The brown beds must be dolomite.
Is the map of the cave that's on your website available in higher resolution? I'd like to study it but I can't make out any of the small text.
Its hard to visualize but scary to think that it would be PITCH BLACK without yours lights.
Great Video. What did you use to shoot the video?....Mike
The extreme conditions required a step backwards in video quality. Most of the footage before reaching the river is taken with a Sony a7iii using a high CRI Zebralight at ~1000 lumens. Most of the river footage is shot with a helmet-mounted GoPro Hero 7 and Scurion 1500.
*Awesome video! Were you guys wearing drysuits? Did your feet get wet?*
5-7 mm wetsuits, neoprene gloves, socks and hoods. Drysuits wouldn't last 5 minutes in that cave before getting ripped and becoming useless. Yes, feet, hands, everything... gets wet.
@@DerekBristol The walls looked really pokey. Is that to do with the rock composition or the water chemistry? Great for hand holds at least....
No fucking way! That crawl is my absolute nightmare.
Derek what kind the dark mineral was that on the extratification lines? Basalt? iron? very interesting cave scallops, very small for fast waters .
Those are chert nodules. The silica (SiO2) is more common in various layers and slowly over eons crystallizes together forming those lumps.
@@PHill Thanks P Hill.
in portuguese it´s named SÍLEX.
How does one get into cave diving?? I've always wanted but I have no idea where to start.
Hey Derek, I am not familiar with the geology in that area. Can you tell me what the black nodules are in the cave walls?
It's chert! Here's a link to the geology of the cave: caves.org/preserves/gxcp/mp-grtx.shtml
Thanks! That was going to be my guess but wasn’t sure.
What is all of that black stuff on some of the walls?
Chert nodules… sometimes found as inclusions in limestone or dolomite.
Does this video feature the "Grim crawl of death" passage?
Yes, at about 14:20
How dark is real caving? These vids are so well lit. Its it typically darkness with just a headlamp?
Yes, caves are completely void of light other than that from headlamps. Modern headlamps are pretty bright and efficient though.
a total pitch black .
I think those were Terrex canyoneering boots you had? How did they do in that environment?
Best shoes available for use in river passage.
The stuttering on your drone footage is really unfortunate. The shots are beautiful, but the stuttering really wrecks them.
You're right about that. I thought my CPU was lagging during playback. Turns out the memory card I borrowed (due to a corrupted one) wasn't able to keep up with the record rate. Didn't catch it until after it was uploaded. Won't happen again. There's better drone footage of the same area in this video: czcams.com/video/xQEOPJgyZaU/video.html
The crazy amounts of velcro makes it look not very fun, especially at the end.
The Grim Crawl has that velcro surface on the FLOOR and CEILING always within a few inches of you as you try to crawl, scoot, swing, slide down or up the low passage.
So Rad
What are those black splotches of rock on those walls?
Chert nodules in the dolomite bedrock
@@DerekBristol I’ve never been caving (yet) but why does the cave look remarkably different from 13:05 ish on?
It’s like that passageway is made out of a completely different material.
You completely lost me at the grim crawl of death, that was insane 13:56
The choice is crawl in the mountain water or die near the bottom of the cave... given that you bend down and start crawling knowing there is a way out. The situation seems to motivate people ;)
@@PHill Of course, If your that far gone its obvious your not turning back, but it does look scary as hell to me
What are the black lines on the walls and why do the walls look like stacks of dry chewing gum
Chert nodules. The chert is made of silica, which is far less soluble than the dolomite bedrock.
@@DerekBristol thats so interesting that the formations are all because of waters effect on varying rock types
@@DerekBristol Do you ever have to be concerned about silica dust in the caves you explore?
Were you legitimately asking someone for their permit?
I did ask. Probably not legitimate though.
@@DerekBristol ok haha. Sorry it’s just if I was in a squeeze like that and someone asked for my permit they’d be pretty lucky I couldn’t move haha.
How did you keep your core dry/warm? Are the darker areas in the rock chert nodules?
Yup, chert from molecules of sediment with the dolomite.
I could not do that. Being stuck for hours underground with that awful music would drive me insane.
LOL. No doubt, the tricky part was running all the speaker wires! :)
The only way to tell that the cave goes from casual to serious to deadly serious is have increasingly dramatic music.
Great video - I would suggest more commentary, less music.
Should upload a version without the music. Pretty distracting
just wondering, is "cave survey" an actual profession, or just a moneymaking hobby, if there is any money in it at all?
Neither. A hobby and volunteer activity. We're just passionate about exploring caves and documenting them in the process.
@@DerekBristol cool Thank you!