Major Changes to Unit Profiles in Age of Sigmar 4
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
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Love being able to put shields on my models bc they look cool and not worrying about what’s best in game.
Agreed. I’m so over changing models between editions to keep up with the meta.
This also makes proxying retired models even easier
It really is amazing news. What an archaic system they had that bles over from 40k.
I think it’s bad because it makes units less recognizable.
Id agree in older models, but I feel we're at a point we can recognize units besides the weapon they're carrying
I really like that you just build the models how you want and not have to worry about making the wrong choice.
100%, magnetising can be such a chore!
Absolutely
@WarpstoneHoarder I agree! I have magnetized my 40k knights, but I really would hate to magnetize all my Liberators
As someone who built 80 skeletons for my Legions of Nagash, now SBGV, I didn’t care about that to begin with; just build them however so they look cool and then just told my opponents which weapon I was using. They always are run with spears anyway
I actually loves the change of a standardized profile. I absolutely hate the feeling of kitting something out, like ironjawz gore gruntas, kitting them out with axes and then realizing "WHOOPS spears are better." Its also better for opponents because it standardizes the threat profile and there aren't huge swings in how much damage a unit does because of their weapon choice.
Jeah, how nice would that have been to know before i built my new Aardboys...
I've been studying the Turkish etymology of WYSIWYG and it turns out, stands for, "Be an adult. Model and paint with a little love and care. Base sizes should probs match."
Personally think this is pretty darn exciting! Thanks for the vid, ace as ever! 🙌
Glad you enjoyed it!
Definitely keep the videos coming. Im learning a lot about AoS and the upcoming 4th ed. Im finally getting into AoS this year, hopefully by next year, depending on when Sylvaneth get their new battletome. Probably will start with Warcry first though. As a future Sylvaneth player that Warcry team is calling to me, plus itll be a nice test bed into a theme and paint scheme for my army so Im not guessing once I tackle the main army, all 10 box sets worth of mini's like the mad yet finacially sound man I am lol
"Rob I'm not that interested in Warscrolls"
It's like you don't even know me, this is ALL I'm interested in 😍.
The best and most underrated change of this edition is the changing of weapon names from something like “The hammer of the forge of azyr, Forge of the heavens made by the hand of Sigmar himself for his chosen warriors” to “Warhammer”
Love it that you can build your models how you want. It helps me be able to build what looks cool rather than what's better for the rules.
WYSIWYG is bad for the game. It may be a staple in 40K but AoS is better than that. If you have a unit of Varanguard ($110 US) you should at least be able to model them however you like without worrying about what is optimal or making your models look less cool to you for the sake of stats that are always in flux.
For bigger models like the varanguard I agree, you should be able to arm them however and use the warscroll as you want, but I would miss having infantry or the like with shields having a better defence in someway.
It’s slightly reduced in 40K these days but it would be nice if it was completely like this
I think the colors are the winds of magic. They look like they are assigned to the action that fits that wind/realm. Yellow/Gold/Chamon/Metal=Hero (command abilities and powers). Grey/Ulgu/Shadow=Movement (& positioning). Blue/Azyr/Heavens = Shooting (through the wind/sky). Orange/Amber/Ghur/beasts = Charging (into combat). Red/Aqhsy/Fire=Combat (killing/violence/Khorne as well). Purple/Shyish/Death = End of turn (kinda a joke here).
The colours are fine. I did a check to see how good it is. In severe cases of blue blindness hero and movement phases can blend together and for people with red deficiency like me shooting and end of turn could get mixed up. But for a supplemental aid it works great. Also the fact that the first ability of Nagash had an ability icon not in the list is hilarious.
Good to know they at least seem to have made an effort. I had very low expectations when they announced that everything would be colour-coded. The colours actually look very similar to one of the palettes I found by googling "colour blind safe pallette" (Paul Tol's Bright).
I still think "Command Phase (Special)" would just have been a strictly better solution than "yellowish + sun/star". But I guess that makes for a boring WarCom article.
Lol, nice catch on Nagash' first ability :D
@@ElOvnen The banner still says exactly when it happens (like the nagash ability that actually not only start of turn) and the icons are also quite general so writing them out would be excessive.
@@hendrikrasmus You're right. Thanks for checking my initial negativity :) I think my initial opinion was biased because of how annoying I've found similar systems that were poorly designed.
But that doesn't appear to be the case here. As you say, the colours aren't replacing the description. They're supplemental. It doesn't seem like I'm required to memorize yellow = hero phase. But unit profiles get slightly easier to navigate quickly if I do.
The icons *are* replacing a text description. But it seems like effort was put into them being sufficiently dissimilar. Without having seen the list of icons, I could likely guess that the arrows indicate Shooting Ability and the shield indicates Defensive Ability. And it's unlikely that I would confuse any of the other icons for them.
The one weapon profile for a model is great from a modeling and having fun with your models perspective. It kind of sucks from a gameplay standpoint, if the weapon on your units is bad you’re kinda stuck with being bad then since you no longer have options. This happened to units in 40k when 10th’s indexes came out. I have more faith in the AoS team than I do the 40k team but also I'm worried we're going to start losing more and more choices for adjusting a unit until the only one left is whether you bring them or not.
I think the color order makes sense because it follows the colors of the rainbow:
Black, yellow, silver, blue, orange, red, purple. Very easy to remember!
More seriously, in response to your color blind comment, they did decently well, but could have done better. They avoided the most common types of color blindness, but not the most severe one that affects less than 1% of males in the world (where you can basically only see colors as orange or blue).
The best design would be to have each phase as a visual texture in addition to a color and/or to have text or symbol indication in addition to the color, which from these scrolls they've shown, they've actually done sort of well. Again, could be better, but still quite good.
Hello and thank you again Rob! killing it as per the usual!
Listened to this in the car yesterday so I couldn't comment, but I'm really looking forward to the magic system reveal. Nagash's warscroll doesn't say he knows all spells in his faction's spell lores anymore. I'm hoping all Warmasters count as generals for 4 unit regiments, lore masters for faction spell lores, and lastly can include any 4 units in their regiment. On an unrelated note, I'm anxious to see how they do foot champions and retinues.
ultimately i like the change that the various weapons all share the same profile. it does, admittedly, destroy a bit of gameplay depth and feel wonky when a pair of hammers has the same offensive and defensive profile as hammers and shields, or swords having the same profile as spears, etc. but from a hobbying perspective its a win because you can just build whatever looks the best to you without having to worry about making a suboptimal choice for your list.
As a recent convert from 40k I'm loving these daily breakdown videos. I dont know the rules (reinforcement being one) as I'm holding off for the 4th ed book so the videos are really helpful. Keep them coming man👍
I love how the first ability box on the Nagash scroll is a black bar with a skull icon. Then you look at the colour table and the icons and see that it doesn't happen in the black phase and the skull icon is not on the list.
Hahahaha amazing spot. Whats.your take ok on this edition?
@@thehonestwargamerstreams From what I've seen it's likely going to lose some flavour but with actual watertight rules this time. I'm cautiously optimistic but time will tell! Either way I'm all for a fresh new game as aos3 is getting incredibly stale...
Thats because it is special
Love that you can build your models as you like, ascetically, without regrets if other weapons are simply better. It’s simple to understand as a new player… the champion gets x weapon, one gets the grand hammer the rest can look badass with duel wields. :) Love the Videos mate great content
One thing to note, we do not know exactly what "Power Level" does to someone like Nagash yet. It may be only his wizard level, but it's also likely to affect other characteristics too, we just don't know which ones yet.
Very excited for simplified weapon profiles. Freedom to have your units look how you want and less to worry about when rolling dice. Great change.
The most important question. Why is the save stat highlighted in green lol
If it's the only green text then it's probably so you can spot it more quickly. There will be some graphic design reasons for it being the case.
@@briochepanda aha, now I'll be able to sleep at night😁
The best part about age of sigmar is no toughness value and you exclusively wound on a number. It leads to more consistency in unit performance so we can know how good a unit is. The issue in 40k 10th rn is because of the toughness increase, many strength weapons did not get boosted to compensate so some armies are able to handle high toughness better while others are left to the wayside of being weaker against that strategy, especially if it's the dominant strategy in the meta.
Now because of us being able to use models with no worry about what the model is using helps majorly with WYSIWYG. I like my liberators with shields anyway but for people who like the double wielding models, they can use them without worrying that double weapons are the weaker strategy because both are the same strategy. I like this a lot! I like the cleanness of the new warscroll in general.
Respectfully, the lack of Strength and Toughness removes true hammer and anvil units from the game. Not having it is what leads to damage and health creep too. They could introduce an ability that makes tough targets harder to wound though, so that would fix this oversight.
@@NateJones10 Good base saves and wards being provided help in tankiness like my hallowed knights list with gardus steelsoul providing that ward to help my army with good saves tank good. Damage in aos is decently high rn so hammers are defs a thing.
That said there's definitely ways in aos to get around this stuff and it's a matter of being implemented decently well.
There is a 99% chance the card is specifically for what is in the starter box, and when the full rules release it will have the options. This happened in the all the previous starters.
here's some colour association I'm going to use to memorise the colours:
Hero phase - gold - heroes wear gold because they're special
Movement phase - grey - that's when you pound the (grey concrete) ground
Shooting Phase - blue - because arrows come out of the (blue) sky
Charge Phase - orange - you're starting to see red, but you're building up so it's not fully red yet
Combat Phase - red - you're seeing red as you come to blows
End of turn - purple - fuck knows
Champions gets two hammers, three get shields and one dude a great hammer. I like moving away for. WYSIWYG
They use colors to make it more annoying to print out bootleg rules
I've being trying to ration out the colours
Black: grounded, the start
Gold: for winners, ie heroes
Movement: grey/white. wind/cloud moving (green for go would obviously be better)
Blue: cool, calm, required if you want to shoot accurately.
Orange: rising anger
Red: rage
Purple: idk,
I think it's a big missed opportunity for the colors. They could have made the colors go from warm light colors to cool darker colors so that at a glance you could tell what happens first.
The colors they chose feel very random with no real reasoning behind them.
Simplyfying weapon options is nice as to not always worrying if a hammer or sword is best but geez, a shield vs dual weapons being the same stat line is absurd. I hope this is a Warscroll for combat patrol equivalent only maybe
The changes seem a lot more thought through than 40K. For example the design of the warscrolls is easier to read.
Considering this and 10th editions were probably conceived at the same time, and not one as consequence of the other...I'm scared. I can already see a blob of zombies that, when accompanied with a specific hero/s, and buffed with a spell, deal 193923984 mortal wounds per activation...and come back when they die
Looks like Nagash lost his laser eye beams
Very happy about the Control capacity instead of Bravery, makes it more progressive depending on the unit. I hope it won't make chaff troops useless (despite screening).
i like being able to model them how you want. even if it has options on its the profile. and then you just mark its loadout on your army list or whatever.
Personally I enjoy the additional layer of customisation provided by having weapon choices for units, weighing up the pros and cons and being able to further tailor them to your list… when I’m playing an opponent I don’t give a crap about what the models are physically holding, (use whatever looks best) as long as you declare in your list before playing.
Pretty sure they said in another article the units a hero can take in a regiment are in the 'battle profile', which I assume is the same place we will find their points? But I agree 'Warmaster' could well mean 'take what you like'! I personally like the lack of restriction to how you build liberators not affecting the stats. Do we think this will be true across the board or just with this 'starter' army?
They sure like to give out mortal wounds
I like wysiwyg for heresy it feels more grounded and makes army building very interesting; but in AoS I’d prefer to just build my models how i like them, the whole setting is literally just “rule of cool” anyways… I have heresy if i want to spend a week coming up with an army list.
While it is funny that Nagash’s OC is the same as his bravery, it is double his 3E impact on objectives. It’s a great example of the value of this design space for making rules!
As to the colour blindness thing, as a person with the most common type of colour blindness your comment (& its wider origin) reflects a misunderstanding of how colourblindness impacts (or doesn’t) people. Fortunately GW seems to have had the wisdom to include the phase in most of the heading boxes to make it so the colours are nice haves not must haves.
This seems so much easier to jump into as someone who hasn’t played
Great thumbnail pose king 🥰
Weapons on the model should be reflected in their profile and units should be visually unified by their weapon choice.
I think I'd prefer a slightly different approach to weapons. Instead of separating out swords from axes etc. I might go with hand weapon/great weapon (two handed weapons) So on the warscroll you might have options for hand weapon and shield at 2 attacks Rend 1 Damage 1 and the shield gives you a 5+ feel no pain type ability where if you get a wound on a model with a shield you roll a die and on a 5+ that wound is ignored, paired hand weapons with more attacks at the same rending and damage, or great weapons which do the same number of attacks as a hand weapon with shield but Damage 2. That way you still can model the units with whatever weapons you wish in whatever combination you wish, but you can still somewhat specialize the unit as well.
Ok Art teacher here,
there is some logic to be found on the seemingly random color choices:
Black - absence of al visible color, also: "first there was nothing" so black as the start make's sense and it doubles for passive abilities that don't really happen at a specific time > White text on a black background is very easy to see > you need to be able to spot these abilities the most often.
Gold - quite easy, we associate gold with wealth and hero's.
Grey - movement, because roads/pavement are often grey-ish.
Blue - This is used for shooting instead of green, the rest from here handles like a traffic light, people with red/green colourblindness tend to see no difference between green and red, in traffic light this is fine because of placement, on a warscroll this is not fine....
Orange - Charging/running for the orange traffic light, also the best national team colour ;)
Red - Blood and Gore need I say more? also Orange and Red should have a better shade difference then yellow and red.
Purple - Most commonly associated with royalty, magic and mystery, it is a calming colour. so comes last, count victory points and see who's more royal ;) and also colorblind friendly if the purple is deep/royal enough.
To me this makes sense, also i've seen this being discussed for the third time now, and i allready memorized them by osmosis, so it probably also has been run through some test-panels 😇
Oh very informative thank you!
Shooting one confuses me too, all I could think was it’s the “wind” kind of blue as a projectile has a wind trail behind it.
Lucky I don’t work on these or I would’ve put red in movement because “da red ones go faster” which is dumber and dumber in hindsight. 😅
5:56 okay, so kinda think there should be a difference between spears and swords though. Swords are sidearms, spears are the primary battlefield weapon for massed infantry. Pikes and polearms are “teched up spears”.
Realistically since they’re in full plate armor they should have great weapons and hammers specifically should get bonuses against armored opponents like chaos warriors (and since stormcast are sigmars counter to chaos warriors would be appropriate)
I'm extremely proud rule of cool. Model what you think looks cooler and then just tell me what they actually have equipped.
As a competitive meta chaser, i love that I do not need to ponder weather shield or speak or two hammers. Love that change!
Nagash on A3 paper to ensure one side rules
Most AOS units always have an obvious better choice for weapon. I prefer this system where you just build your models any way you want.
I still think an "Objective Control" stat is one of the best additions to 40K 10th ed, and I'm glad it's being applied to AoS. (I dislike that they're used a different name for it, unnecessarily; there's nothing about "Objective Control" that was inherently more Sci Fi than "Control Score", unlike "Armor Penetration" versus "Rend". Having different names for the "Control" stat is needlessly confusing.)
It just opens up the design space in ways that give designers a lot of options, while not hamstringing them with a binary On/Off system (like Objective Secured) or having to carve out space on a Warscroll that says it can break the usual "count models" mechanic. It's a flat number, that can be counted and adjusted as needed. And it can go down to 0, so "better" units can be compensated by a reduced or nonexistent "OC".
Hey Rob. Just wondering what you think about them saying they want units to feel different aka the difference between a human and Ork but it looks like it's going to be all 3+ 3+ -1 1dmg all over again for every unit 😅
There is a limited amount of space for movement in a 1d6 based game for numerical variation.
Units should feel different based on their total composition, not just the numerical stat line.
That is a 3/3/-1/1 Liberator should feel different to a Vindicator and both should feel different from an Ardboy because of the other values and abilities on their warscrolls and larger faction rules.
@@ObsidianCrane yes 100% but there is very little difference between units right now and I've a feeling that won't change much. Same unit sizes, same cost, almost the same stats is how it feels right now and I'm worried that won't change much. I know they can't reinvent the wheel but they are the ones who said that they want units to really feel different , that a human should be different to an Ork and a lizardman. If they didn't say that I would have said nothing but I got excited when they said that and worry every battleline unit will be copy paste +1 ability
@@keferwtf The Liberators actually changed noticeably from their current incarnation. Not in their basic attack profile (but a 3" reach has a big impact on how good a unit of 10 is!) , but in the way their abilities work. Now they punish enemies when used for offence as well as defence and they have a clear role in protecting home objectives. Yes that 3/3/-1/1 isn't different, but the way they play on the other hand...
@@ObsidianCrane oh I know they did get a change and I think the +3 for objective control is great. It's more that they came out saying they want units to feel different. Now I know it's just attacks and I should wait till more is shown.
Cool, because shields don't matter my not-Sequitor Champions with fancy plumes and two-handed weapon can keep championing on. They're distinct because their helmets are are cooler, and as every wargamer knows, helmet(less) style > everything else. Honestly the less modelling matter the better IMO, I hate picking between looks and rules.
I'm guessing Warmaster means he has to be your general
No he will be considered a general if he is on the table but not your picked general. Just like it is now
Laughed out loud with the critical hit sample 😂. It sounded lewd my gf gave me a funny look
No discussion of Bravery being gone? Might mean Battleshock is now a generic test for all units, or maybe they got rid of it entirely. I don't think anybody would really miss it to be honest, it never played a meaningful role like it did in WHF.
100% they changed this after they had the options and it’s definitely something they have done with 40K
Hmmm my Khorne models have alot of champions with large weapons because that was allowed before so i hope that wont be an issue.
Otherwise im excited and looking forward to it all tbh, Spearhead ftw!
Rally better be nerfed or changed tho, like seriously...
I dislike the fact that Sheids or spears or hand weapons mean nothing. I think it does add complexity but it added the narrative or flavor to the unit.
Depends i suppose. Libs are only rocking hammers now but units with multiple loadouts might receive differing profiles. I would also like to see differences kept with some weapons.
Say if spears get an anti cavalry hit bonus or something like that.
I think we need to keep in mind that stormcast are being geared up to be beginner friendly, and also have a range of specialised units that mostly have single weapon loadouts.
I mean ultimately we don't have a lot of information to work with at the moment between a bog standard warscroll and a faction god one, so the room for speculation is vast.
5:19 okay, well that’s cool for variability, it was one of the great changes in 10th edition 40k, my intecessors and hellblasters got mixed squads and it looks cool.
Two hammers seems like a terrible melee choice though (two full sized swords irl is bad enough, hammers would be even worse)
I still love those hoplite looking guys, I painted them up and everything, never played the game before.
So, I can have 12 or 24 skinks in a unit. Got it. Swell video Rob
Great review
Looks to me now that Nagash might be better value in a FEC army than he has been. Not having an extensive spell lore matters less when you have a warscroll spell you can and will cast a bunch of times…
All the weapon special rules in 40K 8:30 are pretty ridiculous and cumbersome. You spend so much time trying to figure out exactly what your dice are doing and it really slows things down.. so I’m not a fan of this.
Holy crap, is this the first crack in having to model for WYSIWYG?
After April 4? Bring on coke cans and green army soldiers ;)
Based on that FB post it looks like 'proxies are back on the menu, boyz'. Who the hell is going to stop people from proxying Sequitors as Liberators? Basically the same unit, just with different looks. Even has the same loadout of Grandhammer (and at least for me) looking better than Thunderstrike Liberators...
Great to see that Liberators are trash once again 🙄 assuming their ‘ability’ does only add 3 to the total score and not to the value of each model, any other unit that fulfills the same role as them (that being a relatively cheap screen and objective holder) can just crowd them off of the objective through weight of numbers, because everything else that fulfills that role comes in units of 10 at least.
Great. Just… great.
So about that monsterous rampage happening at the end of turn. That changes things, might be getting better rampages the opponent gets to fight first and the monter needs to survive before using it. Or am I reading too deep into one word?
They going to have to change crypt ghouls as 20 is 160 and reinforced at 240 for 40 is a fair amount especially if recursion, well rallying now let’s say🤣
All the changes so far are definitely*different*. Not one albas struck me as *good* so far though.
" 7 universal weapon abilities" Yeah fuck that, hate that 40k bullshit seeping into AoS. Its hated there, its gonna be same here GW As always is out of touch completely that we cannot get rid of mortal wounds on 6s for everybody and their mother.
Do we think missile weapons will still be able to fire inside melee?
Depends if we get something like a pistol keyword or close ranged style of keyword. Maybe they keep it but there's a penalty to shoot whilst in melee? Guess we'll see.
to a colour blind person hero and Charge phase look the same as do shooting and end phase. Just saying in case anyone in GW is interested.
I always say クリティカルヒット in a deep japanese anime accent when i roll 6's
I'm curious to know if power just equals the number of spells the can be cast, or if spells will have power costs that you pay in order to cast them.
So Nagash would be a case of 9 spells or spells totalling 9 power?
Options good, making everything the same, bad.
Someone has to explain why they chose the Austrian flag as the first three phases and the Romanian flag for the next three.
Just like we forced them to bring back Deep Strike were to a make them bring back wounds
every old cast liberator unit have the great weapon on the unit leader...
The original ones have NO great weapons 😂
dude, you are hilarious 😂
Let's imaging that they've learned that lesson from last time. Hahahahaha 😂
Vindictors with hammers are not Liberators. They look like a kit-bash.. And not a very good one.
Great change. You do what you want with the model waracroll stays the same. Brilliant. 40k should take note single model equipement is riddiculous
Thank Sigmar for homogenized weapon profiles. Now we can just model whatever we like without worrying about what's statistically "best".
2024y HP - finnally a health points... pff .... Status Effects in 2030y? - "Let a Dogs Out!" stop forcing them making changes in cave!
the farther we get from wysiwig, the better the game will be
I have a funny question. Do yall think that ironjaws will ever get a spearhead lmao.
The homogenising of unit weapons is going to make units boring and samey. I think this is a terrible choice
As someone who recently started WH, calling health Health is a great change
Please stop using the noise for future. It comes through very poorly on phone speakers, and just sounds like loud noise.
Kinda funny that 'Ward X+' is suddenly a keyword seeing that it *definitely* wouldn't have fit on Nagash' warscroll otherwise.
Also, WHY would they choose to turn an ability that is basically "On a 4+.." into an annoying mini game that basically encourages dubious behaviour?
Someone *really* thought having to hide a dice in your HAND when using HAND of Dust was super immersive.
Nagash always had this ability in AoS since first edition and it was always using dice.
@@cooljoe500 Thanks! That's my bad for getting all worked up for an old ability, then :)
Still hate the design, though. But, fair's fair, they at least streamlined it a bit for 4th by not having to roll a dice to initiate a dumb sleight-of-hand mini-game. Maybe for 5th Ed they'll reconsider the "dumb sleight-of-hand mini-game" part of the ability.
@@ElOvnen also, usually Nagash was too expensive in points that anyone would bring him in a 2000 point game. So in all my years of playing AoS, I never encountered him on the table and I cant imagine, that he would become a common sight in every death army all of the sudden in 4th edition.
@@cooljoe500 Yeah, I recognize that this is a slightly unreasonable thing to get mad about. It "doesn't matter" in the sense that it will not affect the vast majority of players a majority of the time. And even if Nagash is on the table, this ability will probably take up a total of 1 minute at most.
At the same time, it *does* matter. Units shouldn't have to clear a certain threshold of playtime to have actual thought put into the design of their rules.
Skeletons come in a box of 20 but a unit is currently 10 and has a maximum reinforce of 30 right now. If it’s based on the models in the box I will be able reinforce to higher than I was able to before
Its says 5 next to the word liberators
It says one in 5
I see the confusion; that's the number for the legend telling us what a name is, not the number of models in a unit. Very unfortunate that they placed it there considering how many SCE units are baseline 5 lol
Shave the mullet man.
Grow one you baby
Finally 🎉
true
How many times have people said it's too big a task for them to go in and rework scrolls? Also easily referenced UX design? Pleasantly surprised and we'll see how much attention goes into the indexes but everything looks great so far.
Bolt Action does it all better
Colour coded, great for people with colour blindness, lol.
This edition is starting to seem alarmingly simplified.
11:29 Guns outperforming infantry...who'da thunk it...😮