Did Jesus Have a Biological Father? Sorting Out the Pantera Traditions
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2022
- Contrary to what is often asserted, by scholars as well as general readers, the early traditions that Jesus had a biological father named "Pantera" has nothing to do with an assertion that Mary was raped by a Roman soldier. Further, the name Pantera was never said to be a pun on Parthenos--the Greek word for "virgin"--until it was suggested by a German scholar in the 19th century! No ancient writers who comment on the name "Yeshua bar Pantera" associates it with such a pun--they know the name as a real name from the family of Joseph and Mary. Furthermore, 1st century rabbis living in Sepphoris, just north of Nazareth, use the name in a descriptive way--not as slander at all--referring to Jesus of Nazareth. It was a REAL name, not a pun used in slander. In this interview with Derek Lambert, host of @MythVisionPodcast, I offer a short overview of the Pantera traditions--what we know and don't know, including what I have discovered about the tombstone of a 1st century Roman soldier from Sidon found Bingerbrücke, Germany, on the Rhine river, in 1859.
For further in-depth reading see my book, The Jesus Dynasty, as well as these blog posts. The book is on sale now in paperback for the holidays and has a new epilogue bringing things up to date since it was first published in 2006.
www.amazon.com/Jesus-Dynasty-...
jamestabor.com/the-jesus-son-...
jamestabor.com/the-origin-of-...
jamestabor.com/?s=pantera
About Dr. Tabor: jamestabor.com/about
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James Tabor is a great scholar . My own story is my mother was married to an Italian man who was in a veterans hospital until he died of wounds. My father was a southerner but she listed her Italian husbands name as my birth father on my birth certificate. My Italian last name is not my real ethnicity my real father was Murrel a scotch Irish man.
Christianity is probably the most difficult faith to wrap your mind around because of all the religious traditions and contradictions. I graduated from seminary and always continue my search for the truth of my belief so finding James Tabor is a true blessing for my search.
Let's face it, there are only two possible options: either Jesus had a biological father, or he is pure myth and never existed at all.
With my comment I do not want to offend or change anyone's faith.
I was born in a Catholic family but as a child I never believed in the birth of Jesus, I did not want to question it out of fear and respect for elders. Now that I'm an adult I still don't believe in the idea of the birth of Jesus. I know that an egg and a sperm are needed to form a living being. I turn it over and over and I still don't believe in the birth of Jesus according to the gospels.
To add to this I also learned to say that in Hinduism also the birth of Krishna is similar to the birth of Jesus and Hinduism is older than Christianity.
Also in the culture of the Mexican indigenous people, I think the Aztecs, they have a god who was born from a spirit. and they did not know Christianity when that happened.
I think many people identify with me, many of us do not want to betray family beliefs but we also do not want to continue deceiving ourselves.
Also many of us feel fear to question because the church tells them to believe, if not they go to hell.
I also do not believe that a messiah will come to save us, I believe that the messianic era will arrive when we all learn to respect each other and stop trying to convince others of our belief. when we begin to share with those in need, and when we begin to accept each other without prejudice, Jews, Christians and Muslims. I believe that God formed us with the ability to respect and love each other. I believe that Jesus was a man of flesh and blood (not God) who wanted to teach us that message, he even said, "the kingdom of God is within us." Jesus never said he worshiped me and forgot the Father.
I also don't believe that Jesus returns, and if by chance he returns, Christianity disappears because Christianity exists with the idea of a Christian Jesus. I believe that if Jesus returns he will be a Jew like when he died, and he will continue to say, "love the Father with all your strength." Jesus would not understand what Christianity is because he did not know Christianity. Christianity is the theology of Paul of Tarsus.
Well I have a lot more to say because I did my own research but this is enough and I want to remind you that I am not trying to change anyone's faith. I'm just trying to use logic. But the way greetings from a Peruvian guy.
Really enjoying your videos Dr Tabor
Mary is said to have been the daughter of the priest, Joachim. Joseph is said to have been an elderly widower, a tekton (laborer) of not much account.
Now the question you need to ask yourself is: why is a prime young maiden of high social standing betrothed to an old geezer of much lower social standing?
I draw your attention to MARK 6.03......."Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him."
Now if you have noticed in your bible, it was the norm to refer to men as: "the son of XXXX". To do as these people did, indicates that his hometown neighbors knew, or at least believed, that he was not the son of Joseph.
It seems likely to me that Mary was found to have "a bun in the oven" and for some reason, the father was not available for marriage, a difficult situation. Obviously none of the young men of the village are going to marry her, and without a husband she is open to being stoned to death as per Mosaic Law.
But there is old Joseph who is open to the prospect of getting a fresh young wife, albeit a little used......a prospect he could never otherwise expected to have. A prime young maiden wedding a poor old widower is not something that would have been forgotten.
Some claim that the divine birth story came from Mary. Maybe so, maybe so.
You know something.........sometimes people tell a lie for so long, they come to believe it themselves.
"Abdes" is supposed to be a Latinization of "Ebed" which is a Jewish name. That leads to the idea that J. Tiberius Abdes Pantera was actually a Jewish man who enlisted in the Roman Army. Times were hard in Roman occupied Israel, and young Ebed may have decided to put his archery skills to use by enlisting in the occupying army. He may also have been acquainted with a young Jewish girl by the name of Miriam. However, once Ebed enlisted in the army of the occupying country, he would have become persona non grata in Jewish society. Then, when young Miriam turned up in a family way, society naturally assumed the worst. Marriage to Ebed was out of the question, so Miriam's parents pawned her off to a much older carpenter whose wife had died.
if Ebed and Miriam were married and Ebed either volunteered for the army
or was enslaved & had no choice
they would have logically divorced
@@markrossow6303 what are you talking about?
The name "Abdes" is actually Aramaic (meaning "servant" or "slave", which mean that the man may have been Phoenician or Jewish. Since the man was from Sidon, he may very well have been the former.
What about Bruce Chilton’s book Rabbi Jesus? Are you familiar with that book and does it 29:48 seem supported by the available written documents.
Of course he had a biological father, thats why the gospels begin with his lineage and trace it back to david, a requirement to be the messiah. The bible even mentions his brothers and sisters. The virgin birth was made up to legitimize the christians claim of divinity, similar to romulus, alexander the great, gilgamesh, sargon, ashurburnipal and julius caesar a pretty common theme amongst “divine” kings. I’m a devout christian and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging history, just focus on jesus’ works and message instead of his death and divine status, which after reading the golspels you will see he seemed to want as well.
One day when Mary was going to a market, she was about to be raped by a group of Roman soldiers, when Pantera, a Roman General and a member of the Essenes, came and rescue her. This is the beginning of Mary's relationship to him. When became pregnant, Joseph, being the leader of Essenes, take the responsibility so that Mary will not be stoned.
To get a more info please dig out in the Bible the following points:
1. Why was Jesus brought to Egypt days after he was born?
2. Is Yeshua (Jesus) a legal name or spiritual name? Because it is a custom in a certain sect (before the time of Jesus and even today) to give spiritual name when entering, most especially, into a spiritual ministry. So what is the legal name of Jesus? His legal name once known, Jesus before his spiritual ministry, is not only a carpenter but a great builder (in modern times an Architect). He has a name in one of the temples built by Romans in Sidon as well as in Armenia where he and His mother was invited by the king so that Jesus may heal a child of the king.
3. Take a look on how the soldiers arrest Jesus, they are very cautious and show reverence to Jesus.
4. When Pilate before sentencing the crucifixion to Jesus, he asked him privately "Are you the son of God?". But looking at its original context Pilate asked Jesus "Are the son of Pantera?". That's why Pilate washed his hands and clearly in the Bible, he said he has nothing to do in Jesus crucifixion.
Interesting take. Yes, wriggt a book! LOL
Great work!!
Did Jesus have a human father ?
I suspect his father was a guy named Joseph, who happened to be the boyfriend of his mother.
But because they weren't married, Mary made up the story that an Angel had done it.
Or because so many great and powerful "historical characters" were previously "born of a virgin", giving the same to the new magical guy was designed to add more clout.
@@davidfrisken1617
That too
There is no precedent in Jewish culture. How would Mary defend that?
@@samuelarthur887
In Biblical times, people were quite happy to believe mental illness was caused by unclean spirits.
And there are other examples in scripture of women having babies by magic tricks.
(Genesis 18:14, 25:21, Judges 13:3)
@@samuelarthur887
Sarah gave birth to Isaac (Genesis 11:30)
Rachel gave birth to Joseph (Genesis 29:31)
Hannah gave birth to Samuel (1 Samuel 1:5)
I once read somewhere -- and for the life of me I can't remember where -- an interpretation for 'Pantera' being derived from the Egyptian 'pa neteru', meaning something like "House of (the) God," a way of referring to a big-wig, an exalted person who may have been from royal blood.
The theory may have had some connection to the Aten-cult of Akhenaten, and its supposed relationship with the Moses story. In Hebrew there's a word spelled N-T-R [the 'T' being a Teth, not a Taw], which means something like 'Keeper' or 'Watcher' or 'Continuer', which might denote dynastic continuity, or the idea of maintaining genealogical records pertaining to an important bloodline, or keeping such a bloodline going, the Hebrew word supposedly being an Egyptian term [neteru] adopted into the Hebrew vocabulary.
I couldn't say as to whether this is plausible or feasible, but there have been those who believe that Akhenaten was the basis for the biblical Moses, and that the famous Copper Scroll had something to do with the maintaining of the 'heretical' Egyptian Aten-cult outside the territory of Egypt in neighboring Canaan.
Let's not forget that Joseph (son of Jacob/Israel) was married to an Egyptian woman who bore him Ephraim and Manasseh, whom Israel adopted as his own sons, they being the 'fathers' of the two northern tribes which became synonymous with the Northern kingdom of Israel after the split from the southern Davidic kingdom of Judah in post-Solomonic times.
If the patriarch Joseph's wife were of Egyptian royal blood, then surely this trait would be cherished by her sons, and might well account for there having been some kind of rivalry with the later Davidic dynasty descended through Judah [the 'Sceptre'], with Jeroboam perhaps being of that Ephraimitic Egyptian royal lineage.
So . . . IF there actually WAS an historical Jesus, then perhaps his actual lineage involved a merger of the royal Egyptian blood passed down through Joseph's wife in Pre-Exodus times to this 'Pantera'/'Pa neteru' fellow, with the royal Davidic bloodline passed down through David down to Mary. Maybe there were some Jews back then who thought of the Egyptian pharaoh during Joseph's time as being a worshipper of the Aten-god, Hebraized into Adonai ['Lord'] -- maybe from the very family line of Akhenaten, if there is anything to that theory regarding Moses and Monotheism.
It would be daft to imagine that God could let some random guy accidentally invent Monotheism. On that basis, Akhenaten would have to be a VERY significant person. Not just as an Egyptian. But to GOD. How then can this have gone unnoticed and instead we end up with stories of Moses and Jesus etc more associated with monotheism than the actual guy who IMPLEMENTED it. Something not right, here. Some sort of cover-up. And you can bet it was coz the Egyptian priests were 'not happy' with Akhenaten brushing them all aside. So of course they HAD to wipe out all trace. And meanwhile God stood idly by and let this deceit happen? So much for God, eh?
All these to establish the lineage of Jesus as one of royalty which is supposed to be the highest form of human rank and value by blood
and as closest to the divine by our idea of human and divine hierarchy worthy of worship and exaltation.
The Amarna community persisted for some time. That would tie in with the 40 year sojourn in the wilderness, and the prophet Moses never reaching the Promised Land. After all, pratting around for 40 years in a desert makes no sense, it doesn't take 40 years to get to the Promised Land, you could walk round the entire planet in that time if it weren't for oceans. Akhenaten I guess died in Amarna of causes natural or otherwise. The priests wanted to get back to normality. They did that under Tutankhamun, his successor. Note Amun (Moon) and Aten (Sun). Lucky we even know anything about Akhenaten, as they tried to write him out of history. And if they had succeeded, the Bible Moses story would be the ONLY clue, but no one would have any way to determine that it was a clue, ie that anything fishy had been going on. Pretty darn amazing to invent monotheism, beating God to it, and then your 'establishment' turns against you for having abolished all their gods. To those who seek power, truth is an inconvenience.
“Is there a potential coverup?” Uhhhhhh, Yes?!
Such a brilliant analysis. Wonderful!
The Bibel itself never said God impregnated Mary. Gabriel told her she would become pregnant and her son would be extremely important. Honestly all of the supernatural bs in the bible is metaphorically speaking.
Metaphorical for what purpose?
Great info about Sidon and Jesus' visit there. This is the most informative video I have ever seen on U-Tube. TY Prof. Tabor.
Very interesting information .
I'm upset you pushed me away... what should I wriggt a book?
Belief in a literal Hell is the ultimate perversion.
very intressting and plausable theory ... very nice work and nicely presented
Reading the books of the New Testament, we probably asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years?
The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. In this world, the great fertility of atheism can be explained by the fact that there is no main opponent of critics of the Bible - the Church. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist.
Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on CZcams. The video reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World. Watching this video will give hope to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
We do have miracles done after Jesus for example Thomas, St Antony and many other saints. I don't get what you are trying to say.
The prophecy of Simeon comes to mind...the miraculous birth of Jesus Christ is a sign that causes the rising and falling of many...and the thoughts of mens hearts to be known...merry Christmas.
and in this case,the evil thoughts of evil men. Who don' t know God at all.
Amen
Prof Tabor has an incredible knowledge and insight into these matters and I am delighted that he has taken the time to share this through all these videos.
So, Monty Python was right?
Interesting the idea that the father of Jesus was a Roman soldier. That MUST have been seized on for the plot of The Life Of Brian, in which Brian's father is a Roman soldier. (Possibly Biggus Dickus, but I would have to re-watch the movie to check.) Possibly even it strikes too close and that is why the movie raised the hackles of the intellectual Malcolm Muggeridge (who was apparently quite a clever guy, based on some excerpts I read from his autobiography, but was easily taken in by his own religious bias, eg claiming a nunnery was bathed in supernatural light, when in fact it was known that new experimental high-ASA film was used to film inside it).
Anyway a number of separate clues were mentioned here and there, so surely any theologian would be able to put 2 and 2 together? So why don't they? Either there is evidence to the contrary. Or they do not WANT to put 2 and 2 together because it destroys a convenient cosy and very central feature of the religion, an inescapably fundamental tenet of the faith, without which it falls apart. One can imagine Muggeridge vehemently objecting to the idea of a non-virgin birth. (Or does it fall apart? Does anyone with a clue about science, and who has remained a believer, actually believe in a virgin birth?)
The book of Isaiah is mistranslated to say "virgin" so they need a "virgin" birth for the prophecy to be "fulfilled". Admitting that this is an error is hard for many lay people.
I've have read articles where clergy have admitted that it is an error but it means nothing. They it shouldn't take away from the hopefulness found in the story, etc. Basically perpetuate the lie because it makes people feel good.
I am versed in technology, and I believe totally what scripture says. Mary never had any sexual relations before Joseph because that is what she said to the angel that brought her the news of her pregnancy. I have 0 problems believing and accepting this. What is so difficult for the Creator to create His son in the womb of Mary when He has created the whole universe and all the life on earth?
*Naughtius Maximus
Excuse me, where does Paul remind everyone about the importance of the “ Virgin Birth “ ?
I’m a Baptist = NO Dogma necessary !
If U haven’t heard from the Holy Spirit then
U ain’t there yet = belief in Popes and virgin births,
and wine that turns into blood, and ‘baby sprinkles’
all “ proved bs “
btw How many here ’ believe’ that Baptists are Protestants ?
Raise your hand …. that’s more of the same 'reality' U were taught.
When you KNOW the Truth,
The Truth will set you free ….
@@fcastellanos57 EXACTLY !! Could not of said it better myself.
Do you believe the prophecy of prophet Isaiah 66 verse 9?If you believe,who was that man?
I'm confused why this theory is so threatening for people. Why can't God work and fulfill prophesies through ordinary occurrences? Believing some of the Bible's stories are meant to be read poetically, not literally, doesn't change anything in my opinion. It's how people of that time made sense of their world and remembered their oral traditions, by symbolic language.
You dont understand the sacrificial system or WHY Messiah COULD NOT have a biological father. You see people who are blind can't even conceive that God created this universe and that his ways are higher than your ways. To people like you ONLY naturalistic answers are possible you try to reduce God into a small box, assuming you even believe in the concept of God
You're pure and your faith is strong 🌅
all you are saying is that you don't think God can or does anything supernatural or miraculous . wow. better not call yourself a christian then.
Alyse Andrews - So, heads you win, tails we lose, eh?
Then how would he be called the eternal Son of God and the blemish less lamb of God?
If Joseph was long dead? would he not have been described as son of Mary?
I have a question for Tabor. Can a 80 years women like Sarah get a baby or both babies belong to the young slave. In that case the Jews have to share with the Arabs the promise.
Other questions: Was Abraham a man with mental issues who hear voices?
there was no Abraham and Sarah, just like there was no Jesus and Mary
Fantastic. I am half way through your Jesus Dynasty book. When will the Mary book be available in the UK?
Itching to hear fables!!!
Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.. good for you! Be authentic and accept the results. I applaud the pragmatism in this man. Your not singing to the choir??? Are you okay 🥺
And never let the truth stand in the way of Tabor's copious speculations.
@@wruff378 - don't worry... he will have a brand of ketchup named after him some day.
Is there any archaeological evidence on Jesus' miracles
Read Josephus and what he had to say about Jesus, you'll be surprised. Josephus was not a Christian but a Jewish scholar and historian. He had "no dog in the hunt," yet he records that Jesus healed people and performed miracles.
@@edwarnock9884 are you marketing forgery?
there is current medical evidence for His miracles he does today.
Thank you James great material here! It is interesting that the prophet Muhammad was an orphan and Jesus of Nazareth seems to also have had an absent father whether Pantera or some other man who was absent whether because of early death or scandal. The psychology of Jesus would be an interesting study on searching for a Father figure that will not fail. Not just a new earth and a new heaven is a motive but a new Father for religious motivation and inspiration.
But how do you know any of that?
@@davidfrisken1617I am guessing that he hopes that lack of belief, faith and trust will not sink him
"Jesus of Nazareth seems to also have had an absent father"
How do you figure ?, Joseph was His "earthly" guardian, NOT His biological father, and Jesus of course KNEW His Heavenly Father from Eternity Past at 12 years old....
"And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (Luke 2:49)
@@7Truth7Wins7 yes- the Temple in Jerusalem. His Father's House. Jesus proved His Divinity many many times. No MERE human can do or be what He did or be what He STILL IS. he lives and works miracles still today, i have had them. He raised me from the dead.Literally.
@@theCosmicQueen Would be interested to hear your story/ testimony!
Genealogies in the gospels show Joseph to be Jesus father. Do you think these genealogies were constructs?
Genealogies are full of lies, this whole reality is, why would this be left alone?
There was an expulsion of Jews from the Galilee in 4 bce? How was it possible that any of the early Christian movement happened if there were no Jews there at the time? I presume it was a partial expulsion.
Very fascinating discussion.
if people believe sarah and abraham had isaac in her 80s by angels, why don't they believe Jesus was conceived by an angel ? so its all bs
Matthew 10 does not contradict John 4. In John 4:4 it clearly states that they "had to pass through Samaria" on their way to Galilee. Not to mention that the disciples weren't "on their own". They were with Jesus and weren't preaching to anyone, just getting food.
In the book of Philip. Mary of magdalas brother wrote Mary's curse meaning the emaculate conception. He knew mary personally
Well if he didn't how could he have existed?
When Jesus refers to his heavenly father's house he says the sky is his throne the earth his footstool, when he refers to the temple as his father's house,his biological father, as a child he tells his mother not Joseph, I must be about my father's work biological father.
I didnt understand.
He think jesus was born in a virgin birth or not?
NO HE DIDN'T, THERE YOU GO. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE AND SHAME ON ALL OF YOU FOR AGREEING WITH THIS. AT THIS POINT YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE, YOUR RELYING ON A MORMON JESUS THAT HAD A BIOLOGICAL FATHER. I WOULD BE CAREFUL BECAUSE YOUR PUTTING YOUR SALVATION IN A JESUS THAT NEVER DIED FOR US. THE MORMON JESUS WILL NOT LEAD YOU TO HEAVEN
I like to think the Roman soldier at Jesus crucifixion was his father trying to help him.
if Ebed + Mary were married, they would have logically divorced once he was press-ganged or enslaved into the army
If Ebed was a relative of Joseph (& likely of Mary to), Joseph would likely not mind -- especially if Joseph was an older widower with children
Joel 3:4
“Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;”
Excellent!!!
Did Jesus have a dad .?.sure..ask Joseph why the carpet was worn into Mary's bedroom ..
Very long stretch of speculation. There were probably more than one man named Jesus in those times. It’s ok to ask questions don’t get me wrong but what is all this obsession about disproving the ability of a creator being to do miracles? Especially with Christianity. Unless you are trying to separate the person of Jesus of Nazareth including his teachings from Christianity and hence his followers from those earlier times? It seems to me that regardless of what you believe on different subjects if you lead a life following His teachings from the heart in a ll sincerity, you will be a better human being on this planet. By it’s fruits you will know if the tree is good or not. So the focus is wrong. Focus on the good rather than the bad. Focus on love rather than hate. Plant good trees…
Anybody care to comment why ABSOLUTELY NOBODY finds it remotely conceivable that Joseph might have been responsible? When a women is murdered the husband is the first suspect - surely it should be the same for pregnancy? I am mystified by how you might regard your own children - but I will do my best to mind my own business.
If Jesus came from a virgin birth, how could he possibly have a biological father?
he doesn't. He did so many miracles and still does, extreme miracles. THAT is why people bought in to Him being divine. HE PROVED IT.
@@theCosmicQueen
_"...he doesn't."
False.
The Bible makes it clear that a human descendant of David, not God, was the father of Jesus. The terms, "seed", "flesh", "root", "fruit of his loins", and "offspring" mean that Jesus was the biological son of Joseph.
Matthew 1:1
"This is the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David."
John 6:42
"They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
Acts 2:30
"Therefore being a prophet [David], and knowing that God had sworn an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne."
Hebrews 2:16
"For he [Jesus] took not the nature of angels, but the seed of Abraham."
Acts 13:23
"Of David's seed hath God, according to his promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus."
Romans 1:3
"Concerning his son Jesus Christ, who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh."
2 Timothy 2:8
"Remember that Jesus Christ is the seed of David."
Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these things in the churches; I am the root (progeny) and the offspring of David."
John 1:45
“We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote; Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Matthew 9:27
"When Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, thou son of David, have mercy on us."
Jesus had brothers and sisters (not half-brothers and half-sisters):
Galatians 1:19
"I saw none of the other apostles--only James, the Lord's brother."
Mark 6:3
"Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?"
Matthew 13:55-56
“Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us?"
Remember me?
I already told the prime minister ......I stopped that war
If Annas was the father, he may have removed the body and put it in the family tomb so any bones of someone crucified, would probably be Jesus.
maybe Pilate was the father and he stole the body and took it to Rome😂
Realistically , what do we know. I think we believe far more than we know
T. Iulius Abdes Pantera was apparently from Sidon, so his name ‘Abdes’ is probably a graecised version of the Phoenician ‘Abd-Eshmoun’, ‘slave of Eshmoun’.
We could be a team?
After 600 yrs we find the indication of fornication in the surah Mariam when they said to Mariam , “ O sister of Aron! What did you do? Your parents were good persons.” Something like that and she asked them to ask the baby Jesus who the father is…! And then baby Jesus tells that is is the prophet of god !
Something like that!
Simeon and anna knew ,john baptist knew, and jesus point it out throughout the gospels
When it comes to healing, I have seen people healed who remained healed. One was a young woman who I had known for several years. She had polio as a young girl and one leg was about two inches shorter than the other. Every day I watched her get off the bus upon arriving at school, with some difficulty. Point is I knew her and her family fairly well. Yet an Evangelist prayed for her in the name of Jesus, and she was healed, so much so she had to take her shoes off to walk to her car.
I know and will never be able to be convinced Jesus is anything other than what the Bible says He is.
Mr. Tabor's theories are highly unlikely as he ignores the Jewish religious customs and Laws of the time. He reads a lot in between the lines that is not there. The Pharisees tried to buy off the Roman guards at the tomb to say his disciples took him while they slept, (a story they still claim to be true) and if you look closely at their history, persecuted Christians and ran a smear campaign against Jesus being "that prophet like unto Moses" or the "Son of God." Accusing Jesus of being conceived in an illegitimate manner was and has always been the number one accusation they make against Jesus. In fact, to this day the descendants of the Pharisees use His name as a curse word. They did all this in the face of evidence that Jesus was no ordinary man, He healed a blind man, "blind from birth" and the Pharisees called the man's parents to testify if he was born blind to which they replied he was, but they had no idea how it came that the man could see. They became so upset they threw the man who had been blind out of the temple, meaning he was cut off from Jewish worship.
To discredit a person all that is needed is to create ideas and theories to muddy the waters so everyone will think "there is no way to know." Yet there is Saul or Paul who was so convinced after his Damascus Road conversion that he testified before Nero who Paul knew was likely going to have him put to death for that testimony of Jesus being a "Son of God." To Nero Jesus was at most just the son of a strange "non-Roman god" and at least just a man. If Paul did not believe it, he never would have staked his very life on it as did the majority of Jesus original disciples and the many who came afterward.
If you are interested in viewing both sides of this subject check out the CZcams channel messiah ofisrael. It is put out by Zev Porat, who was raised in the conservative rabbinical traditions. He brings many of these things out in the open.
It is curious how many people with one foot short are 'cured' by faith healers. In a room full of people requiring healing, the number of such people would be expected to be vanishingly small or non-existent and yet they show up regularly as a party piece. It is also curious that faith healers never go to hospitals to help out. Now why would that be? So sorry, I doubt your story. It is also extremely sad how many people 'cured' by faith healers give up their REAL medicines and treatments so that they die needlessly. And then there's the great excuse that is the basis of Prosperity Theology: If something bad happens to you, it is because you didn't believe strongly enough, pray enough, or give enough money to a wealthy pastor to help with the cost of his private jets.
@@dakrontu I realize that I can never persuade or convince a skeptic to change their mind, but if I can offer some evidence that can be explored by the skeptic who really has a desire to know both sides of the issue, then based on the actual documented evidence make an informed decision on their own, then I will do that. There is a book titled "The Case for Christ" by Lea Strobel an investigative reporter who set out to prove Jesus Christ as a fraud. It is a great place to start, he takes the reader down the path he took to "expose to the world the fraud of Christ." In his search he references many old texts from non-Christian sources. That could get someone started to be able to weigh for themselves the evidence.
I realize you are a skeptic and at the beginning of that healing service so was I. I remember when the evangelist announced that there was going to be a healing service, my exact thought at the time was, "Yeah we'll see." On the heels of that thought was, "I don't know how this guy thinks he can tell God what to do." I was pretty much told by my parents that I had to attend this otherwise I probably would not have.
But after seeing this young lady that I knew and was familiar with her physical condition, healed in such a way that there was no way it could have been faked, that changed my mind completely.
Since then, I have seen an eight-year-old confined to a wheelchair get out of it and run for the first time in three years. Last I knew he was playing soccer in a boy's city league like many boys his age.
A man that was told he had only a few months to live due to an advanced case of bone cancer that the doctors said was untreatable. He was prayed for, and he said he felt nothing and did not think anything really happened at the time. He was scheduled for a PET scan that next week to see how fast the cancer was moving and give doctors a better expectation of how long he might live. He went for the test and the next time I saw him; he told me the PET scan was run twice because they could not see any sign of the cancer at all. So, it is my belief Jesus still heals even today.
What bothers me it this, Mr. Tabor is not really saying anything new this was said by the Sadducees and Pharisees during the time Jesus was here. They continued this "narrative" for over the past two thousand some odd years and still do, to this day. At Jesus trial they twisted about everything Jesus did and said to vilify Him. This is just more of the same, but Mr. Tabor comes out like he's discovered something new that has never been said before, and everyone swallows it hook line and sinker.
If I had not seen with my own eyes, I would probably be right there with you. but I did see.
One last thing there are people who have prayed for the dead to be revived and it did happen documented by doctors and police whose job it was to track such things. So, if someone really wanted to, they could search out the evidence on their own. But if they'd rather not even try, they could simply remain a skeptic.
I refuse to let someone else do my thinking for me and tell me what to believe or not believe.
Thank you for writing this out.
Awesome, her medical doctors will have been able confirm this comparing medical records to being supernaturally cured, and will have written papers covering this, likely taken up by further media.
Can you point to this actual evidence? Because surely if this professional validation hasn’t been obtained then God is being robbed! Claims are cheap and frequent, actual verification is needed
If the pharisees tried to bribe the guards to go away but couldn't, why did the women not see any guards when they went to the tomb? Mathew is the only gospel that mentions guards of any kind.
I cannot even imagine the reward that has God waiting for you @james tabor. This way says our Lord Almighty, "..And I will come near you for judgment; I will be a swift witness, against sorcerers, against adulterers, against perjurers,..;
For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Yet from the days of your fathers you have gone away from My ordinances and have not kept them.
Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts.
“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’ (Malachi 3:5-7
There will be a reward for you as well
May be in 34AD Jesus was crusified because he did not have a father.
Is anything impossible for an almighty God?
Very interesting discussion. Keep up the good work, gentlemen
I didn't know you existed when I came up with my name
Panterra.
Or Pa-Neter-Ra.
Meaning My God Ra.
And a Son of God?
Most pharaohs were sons of god.
Tuthmoses, Ramoses, Ahmoses - Son of Thoth, Ra, Yah…
Why cannot Tabor look outside his irrational Christian box, and see the rational real history.?
And why is the Gormless Gnostic still mired in his Christian fundamentalism?
Ralph
Hey Ralph, none of that fits. ‘Panthera’ is Greek word, meaning ‘panther’, and as Tabor says it is attested as a name both in the ancient literature and in epigraphy.
But weren't those just metaphorically sons of a " god"? not literally. Jesus is LITERALLY.
I figured out the number of the beast. . .and I figured out when you raise a man from the dead you have to die twice.. my name is parvin
While I do not have any theological issue with Jesus the man not being born of a virgin as it doesn't in any way diminish that God could put His spirit inside this man He called Son and do His work through him. Jesus doesn't need to be born of a virgin. This stems back to the idea of not being able to accept anything unseen. If one can't believe that Jesus can't be born of a virgin then they also can't believe in an unseen anything.This is really the root issue here. The interesting thing is that the idea that he must have a biological father simply off of the verse in Mark is kind of silly. The reality is the Joesph died sometime between the age of Jesus being 12 and 30. The locals would have referred to Mary bc they would be distinguishing between her being his mother and not the son of whomever she may have remarried. I understand if your understanding of the world doesn't allow you to believe i a virgin birth. That's a tough one for many however proving this is unrealistic simply by a verse in mark that can be explained 6 ways from Sunday is just unscholarly. Of course they thought Jesus was born of fornication. They didn't believe He was who He claimed. 🤣 That's kind of the whole point. No one would have believed her and the rumor mill of being born of fornication would have been the assumption all her life. This is hardly a scholarly discovery. I am actually reading both your books and find them fascinating however, when we have real evidence it speaks for itself and is compelling. Many of these things you say are sort of what Alexander Hislop did and create shock value and grab the attention of naysayers, but don't have anything real or of substance behind them other than just being arrows shot in a general direction to downplay the faith you don't believe in. What I find interesting is that I get a sense from watching many of your videos that you do believe in God but the one book resource for what you do believe(which is important bc it will always color one's ideas) is out of print.
If Christ had a biological father then He'd be a "sinner".
Ofcourse, Jesus Christ met John the Baptist, to be *abaptized* of him 🤫(even without above assumption).
@TadeoNguyenHoangDiep To "fulfill all righteousness." Christ was baptised for us.
Oh how we'd love to do a DNA on Jesus. What would we see? Oh I like this thought syream.
you would see only his mother's dna.
@@theCosmicQueen search videos by Ron Wyatt and Jesus blood on the ark
A son of some soldier could not raise from the dead. That's more likely with a supernatural being.
I want to read his book about Mary! I've always had the interest and so little is known.
Of course he did, His father was a Samaritan the Gospel of John 8 41 and 48 states his father was a Samaritan. It was common knowledge.
All those arguments were long, long ago discarded... Talmud doesn't say those things about Jesus from Christian faith, it's Jesus from hundret years apart, son of Pappos Ben Yehudah (from completely different time than Christian Jesus). "Yeshu" was a very popular name back then. Besides the Yeshu described in Talmud was hanged etc. Just silly theory for naive kids... BTW Pandera/Panthera was a very common name also among the romans, not a big surprise they've found a tombstone of one.
Who is the father of Bob Marley
Everyone's trying to show they love him more it's me
Paulus was a soldier...a commander
Where you should begin is that Jesus was a black guy and that Jesus could have been more of a title than an actual name. 🤔
Sumerian literature is where all faiths originated.
As per Torah Tanakh Talmud Hebrew Scripture Judaism ( which came up with a Messiah idea) The messiah must come from King David's paternal biological father and fulfil Isaiah 2 and 11 Ezekiel 37 first time he comes no second coming of Messiah..
Jesus fails all these requirements..
And Jesus said, God is able to bring forth sons for Abraham out of stones.
If you call on the name of Jesus Christ you reincarnate but Jesus is a code name for Human being not a singular person but the whole of humanity.. I think they proved reincarnation by having one killed but really he commuted suicide and came back and the shroud of Turin is the proof for reincarnation .. I’m trying to think hard how would reincarnation work - something about the Roman and Jew perhaps if we mingle (everything opposite of Bible) .. we have to think critically about this very deep but the spark is there they have proved it (My Theory and it does make sense )
I was trying to find my blood line to see if dad was a loser when I found out about it then I actually identify found you...I was trying to discover who I am and where I came from
Sure. The Easter Bunny is J's dad.
I've been around kind and polite people before and they do use euphemisms. Not saying this was the situation, but I could see "child of God" being a euphemism for "illegitimate child", like someone could ask "who's the father" and they might say "oh, he's a child of God" , and they would say, "oh, I see" and it's understood. If someone said "you should be nice to him, he's a child of God" in this context understood to mean: "his life is hard enough. He has no earthly father. You should give him a break" but outside of this context could be misunderstood to mean he is a demigod or something, or that if you're not nice to him his father, God, will smite you.
the Talmud is not kind and polite toward Jesus nor christians...and "Yesu ben Pantera" is not a euphemism it is clearly meant as a direct insult...
No, he was the Son of the Almighty. His birth, life, and death were all prophesied in the Tanakh.
But that wasn't the case at all. Jesus did many extreme miracles with hundreds or thousands of witnesses, that is how they decided to follow Him- HE PROVED HIS DIVINITY . He is still doing it today, for instance He raised me from death as a child, and healed me instantly. many have had such experiences today. I have SEEN Him come down from the sky and do this. And He left walking at light speed about 50 feet up in the air, going across the air, to tend to his other needy " sheep" as He said.. (He is the good shepherd). He came in spirit, i know because my stepdad being evil and impure, could not see Him but could feel it when Jesus did somthing to him. But a pure innocent child, can see Him: " blessed are the pure in heart , for they shall see God" --- Jesus ( on the Mt of olives i think).
You pushed me away
Jesus was not a Jewish or Hebrew name. It was Yeshua
All of us try showing who loved him most I say I do
Please look up parvins English family crest.... I'm supposed to be French German russian....we had a Russian saint hood there someplace my dad and mom never knew my brother never knew we had Russian in is and paulus. There are 2
Tabor said, he believes Jesus is a historical Person and he still put unknown name of Jesus’ Father on the birth certificate.
And what he is saying is speculation and from his presentation will often say May Be May Be……
I perceive he doesn’t have a concrete evidence of what he is saying and it was all speculations from the early writings.
Culll
God rules in it all and It is written He will appear a second time and I think all truth shall be evidence unto all men.
God bless All
Thank you
How about that: The young man is not accepted by the girls parents - wealth, social status, religion etc. - so he willingly joins the roman army, as so many people did in the time. The romans did not need to press-gang locals into their fighting force, they came wllingly, and it was custum to send them to the other side of the empire - where they could not be part of a local uprising.
This is mine don't take it from me dude...it's mine...you die twice when raised from the dead
When you made me think you loved him more I......I became upset
Thank You
A soldier in an affair with a local girl might circulate amongst the guys in barracks. For this to arise 30 years later when Jesus was gaining fame was probably not from Pantera mess mates. This would have to come from people close to Joseph's people. Given the Bethlehem birth with Bethlehem so close to Mary's family in proximity, the illegitimacy was understood, and she was not permitted to give birth in family domicile. Joseph may have reluctantly accepted this besmirch as the besmirch was another burden of Roman military occupation. For Mary to have spent 3 months in early pregnancy with her cousin indicates that Joseph was not too happy with the consequences of this affair between Pantera and Mary.
Or, just make something else up.
Made up speculation and nonsense. Ask for forgiveness humbly , perhaps GOD will.
If your daughter, sister, mother, etc had an affair tongues wouldn't wag? People wouldn't talk? In today's world where this has sort of behaviour is considered to be part of the human experience, people would talk. Go back 2000 years ago to a small town in the Middle East, with a population of 1000-2000 people at the most. Go back into a culture where an affair results in death by stoning. A local girl consorting with a Roman occupier (a Syrian from Sidon, a descendant of the Canaanites) would have scandalous. The culture of the period would've have been more similar to what we have in Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan.
@@zz3718 ...and your point is, what? i am Irish Catholic and 100 years ago an illegitimate birth would not have been acceptable, the baby would not have been born in the family's home. The fact that Mary had family, with property, and she was relegated to give birth in a stable establishes the child as illegitimate. Bethlehem is a few miles from Mary's people, and she was in labor....but she had to meet a census requirement at that moment?
@@thomasrhodes5013
a) No census took place. A census took place throughout the Empire so you have to go back to where your ancestors lived 1000 years ago? If that had happened today you as Irish man would have to go back to Celtic Spain or France, or perhaps even England or Scotland. Let's say you're "Irish" from Boston, Mass. by now you've been in the US for only 150-300 years at the most, where in Ireland would you go if you had to reach out to your hometown from a 1000 years ago. Which village, town, etc would you go to? The Romans weren't idiots. To cause an upheaval like this just for a census? What's to ensure that people go back to their present-day jobs? What happens if someone's ancestors lived outside the Roman borders, etc?
b) You said it "might" be the talk of the barracks. Why would it be brought up 30 years later? In a small town in rural Galilee, everyone probably knew. Women gathering at the well would talk about it Mary and Pantera. Go home tell their husbands, etc. Mary being a young girl at the time probably didn't mask the situation to well (young love thinking it can overcome the world and all the other nieve stories young lovers have been telling themselves since time immemorial). This would've have been talked about by the people in small town rural Galilee, especially since the Romans were an occupying force and you have a local girl batting eye lids a Roman soldier.
Bro froze to death
Rev. Moon has clearly taught; Jesus's father was Zechariah. Read it in the Bible.
Jesus looks like Ben Simmons...
no he does not. that dark pic of some guy , painted on an old tomb IS NOT JESUS ,and Jesus does not look like a stereotypical dark jew . people ahve seen him including myself, in a " near death experience" and he looks nothing like a dark jew. He is a light haired one. As there are many lighter ones, who don't look like a sterotype. people in the West don't know they are jews though , jus t by looking. But there are many and always were.
Scrolls from phillip. And magdala.
Invisible, sky-dwelling, super-beings that take attendance and grant wishes.
Remember turning me away