What Waits Below (1984)
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- čas přidán 27. 04. 2023
- The US military is running a test for a special type of radio transmitter, to be used to communicate with submarines, in a deep system of caves in Central America. When the signal from one of the transmitters suddenly disappears, a team of soldiers led by Major Elbert Stevens (Timothy Bottoms) and cave specialists led by Rupert 'Wolf' Wolfsen (Robert Powell) including scientist Leslie Peterson (Blount) are sent in to find out what happened.
Exploring deep underground, they stumble upon a tribe of albino cave-dwellers who have apparently been isolated from the rest of the world for thousands of years. The cave-dwellers are hurt by radio frequencies and are able to see in infra-red frequencies, tracking the explorers by their body heat.
A 1984 American science-fiction fantasy adventure film (initially released under the title "Secrets of the Phantom Caverns") directed by Don Sharp, produced by Sandy Howard and Robert D. Bailey, screenplay by Robert Vincent O'Neil and Christy Marx, based on the story by Freddie Francis (as Ken Barnett), cinematography by Virgil L. Harper, starring Robert Powell, Timothy Bottoms, Robert Powell, Richard Johnson, Anne Heywood, A.C. Weary, Richard Beaucham, Liam Sullivan, Jackson Bostwick, and Lisa Blount. Screen debut of Pamela Hallisey Hiss.
It was the first American film for Robert Powell, who was cast in October 1983. Powell described it as more than "another pulp movie. It's a romp, a more physical movie, and fun stuff for an actor." Lisa Blount said "We would go into the caverns before dawn, stay there all day, and come out at night, so we never saw the sunlight, except for Sunday. Blount died of a blood disorder at age 53 on 25 October 2010. She is remembered for "An Officer and a Gentleman" (1982) for which she was nominated for a Golden Globe, as well as "Dead & Buried" (1981).
Sandy Howard produced the film with special effects designer Robert Bailey. "Sandy came to me and said, 'Bob, how'd you like to work on a picture that'll get you out of those darkrooms you've been working in on all those effects?' So I said, ‘Hey, that sounds great'."
Howard wanted to shoot the film in a real cavern to give the film "a special beauty and grandeur that has taken over one million years to develop, and which no Hollywood set could ever dare hope to recreate."
Filming started August 1983. Principal photography for the film took place in a former limestone quarry and in natural caves. It shot at Cumberland Caverns for about two weeks, then another two weeks were shot at Cathedral Caverns in Alabama. Several days were spent filming at Fall Creek Falls, too.
Production was briefly halted in late August when carbon monoxide produced by generators in the Cathedral Caverns location sent at least 17 people, including Sharp, to the hospital. Blount recalled the accident happened while her character was captured and tied up on a rise inside the cavern. "All the extras, as the Lemurians, were out in front of me, and I watched all these people just start silently falling over, fainting, as this wave of carbon monoxide came at them," she said. "All hell broke loose. We had little golf carts for transportation, and it was an immediate emergency situation of getting out, but these carts didn’t go that fast. We had very sick people, and it was a matter of determining who got in the first car out - youngest ones first. It was just total chaos. There were sixty people who went to the hospital." Blount said the cause was "one of those technical problems where the generator running everything backed up and started shooting fumes back into the cave. We had to shut down for a few days because of that, but we got through it." Co-producer and special effects designer Robert D. Bailey said "Frankly, I underestimated the difficulty of shooting in the caverns. If I had it to do over again, I would not attempt to do such extensive filming underground."
Don Sharp was born in Hobart, Tasmania, and began his career in Australia as an actor. He enlisted in the Royal Australian Air Force in 1941. After the war he moved to England. After a few insignificant film parts in unimportant films like, he turned to scriptwriting and direction. In the 1960s, he gained a reputation as a man who could work well with limited budgets and thus became a popular genre-film director, in particular for Hammer.
Making the film was an unhappy experience for director Don Sharp. He said people were frequently fired during the shoot and he was never given what he was promised in terms of effects. "It wasn't very good," said Sharp, "It wasn't a very good cast." Sharp said he told the producer he felt the film was awful and he left after shooting without taking part in editing.
A minor, but completely distinctive and enjoyable horror/adventure trek made on the cheap in some underground caverns. After a slow beginning it keeps you watching and manages some effective shocks, interesting atmospherics and sprinkles of moody suspense. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I haven't seen this movie for over 30 years now! I can't believe I actually found it on CZcams!! I've got a great love for ALL things "80's"!... Thanks a million for uploading this gem!!! 👍
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5 Years, TOP
@@DonaldPBorchersOGpoți să postezi filme cu actorul Robert Powell din acest film?
E actorul meu preferat și ador filmele cu el
Alții nu postează filme cu el sau pun doar prima parte și restul nu.
Te rog postează cu acest actor!
Promit că mă abonez!
Can you post movies with the actor Robert Powell?
He is my favorite actor and I love his movies! Others don't post movie with his or post only the first part and not the rest!😢
Please post with this actor
I promise to subscribe!
@@RoxiFanMJ I'm sorry. I never produced a movie that Robert Powell appeared in. I can post his movies from the public domain if you tell me the names of them.
@@DonaldPBorchersOG Names of movies?
Of course! For example Hannay or Robbery
I saw this back in the days in cinema. Later watched it with my dad at home. Good memories. Thank you for sharing this. Always loved Robert Powell.
Welcome.
Absolutely agree about Powell...IMO, The best physical looking and acting pedigree to do the best portrayal of Jesus Christ. Breathtaking.
Watch Harlequin ( 1980) one of his weirdest movies.
@@pattynjan1 My first time seeing him was as the I'll fated, new resident doctor in "Asylum".... Man, seems like yesterday.. LOL
@@HarrisO.R8 Thanks for the visit!
Excellent movie. I love the older horror flicks. Not nearly all the blood and gore like today's movies. Refreshing change. Thanks for sharing.
"Older"? 1985 is not old unless you're a twenty something. Cheers
@ Jan Self Welcome.
@ HillBilly Hmm. I saw a recent Marvel movie , a Tom Cruise movie from ten years ago, and Fast & Furious franchise movie from a couple decades ago, and "an older horror flick" from 38 years ago. I said the same thing @ Jan Self said. But, I put it in context. Thanks for the visit!
First time I am seeing this - one of my favorite Don Sharp movies of all time is "Kiss of the Vampire". Thank you so much for uploading "What Waits Below"!
Welcome.
It must have been 30+ years since I saw this. I've had memories of it ever since. Still enjoyed it today. Low-budget entertainment worth the time. Recommended.
Welcome. Thanks for watching, again.
I remember watching this decades ago! Good movie! Thank you for the opportunity to watch it again!
Welcome.
Movies from my youth this movie came out when I was a junior in highschool 👍👍👍👍 Thanks for the memories
It's certainly one of my best sci-fi memories of the 80s and particularly of Robert Powell.
I had never seen it before . I love Robert Powell ❤. I love his unique voice, the way he walks, and he is an extraordinary actor!
Indeed, Robert Powell can bring something significantly new to any role.
Glad you like. Welcome.
Always expect to see Jasper Carrot alongside him.
@@cjw419 The Detectives
Ohh Robert Powell! 💗
I used to have posters of him all over my bedroom walls! I was mad about him!
I cant believe ive never seen this film!
Ive never seen him in a bad film so im going to enjoy this!
I thought he was the best Jesus id ever seen in that role!
His presence onscreen was so reverent & not of this world, he was just how i imagined Jesus would have looked!
Oddly after that film, i couldnt bring myself to fancy him any more, it felt wrong somehow,
I know he was just an actor playing a film part but...
God works in mysterious ways
Even though im not religious
I couldnt work out why i felt
As i did.
I remember Robert married the beautiful Babs from the girl dance troup, Pans People from the pop tv show!
They made a wonderful couple!
Thanks for the upload!
Peace
🇬🇧👧🕊
Top of the Pops
👍
So itallia666 had a thing for Jesus of Nazareth, interesting.
@@dyejohn1905
Lol! But the 666 is my birth date
6th of the 6th month of 1956
Nothing to do with the number of the beast!
But people always just assume it is,.. sad.
🇬🇧👧
Not just the best Jesus's but also one of the greatest performances by an actor
I remember watching this as a kid back in the late 80's or early 90's and it was a genuinely creepy film and I think it still is. I think there's a fair bit of influence on "The Descent" from this! Sure it went on another name "Secrets of the Phantom Caverns".
I discuss that a bit in the description. Fond memories. Thanks for the visit!
Journey to the center of the earth had similar monsters, but ever since man could write there has been tales of beings living in deep caves, and either and offshoot of humanity thousands of years ago, or completely different altogether. There has been descriptions from hairy humanoid forms like bigfoot with red eyes, to lizard types, I for one believe that there has to be a reason for all this, but I think it's a rabbit hole that involves inter dimensional or aliens that experiment with DNA of life forms we know nothing about. What's interesting is the sci-fi lovers know this, look at Star wars characters, look at old books, look at even land of the lost as kids watching Chaka and sleestacks
Same. I was very young and got my mum to tape it for me when it was shown on BBC 1 at some point in the early 90’s. Didn’t catch the title at the time so the tape was labelled ‘monster cave film’. Moisture got in and the film was lost to me. Nobody I talked to about this film had any idea of its existence. Thanks to a very vague but passionate description to my friend with internet(and internet banking of all things!), in about 2009. Said friend found it on DVD! I new that this film existed! I’ve watched at least once a year ever since.
I really was captivated by this film. It just shows that a good story doesn't need a large budget or the latest technology. Thank you for the upload- I enjoyed it very much!
Couldn't agree more! Welcome.
1st time watcher. I'm amazed that this is not classified as a classic!!! ❤
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Thanks for this. Never heard of it before & well worth the watch. Sad so many people had to die especially as the tribe were simply protecting themselves & their home.
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They attacked first though
It isn't real😂😂😂
A good piece of escapism. Worth watching..
You must be desperately desperate...
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Awesome movie. I can't believe i haven't seen this B4. The beginning has some good action, then it gets interesting, as well as original and fun.
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I can remember seeing it for the first time on TV in the 80s. There was something that set it apart from most of the popular sci-fi of that decade which made it particularly enjoyable for me.
Reminds me of 'The Omega Man (1971), Starring Charleton Heston... 😀
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A really good movie from a much better era...
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Especially with the most basically impressive quotes like Wolf's "In a cave, the only predictable element is the unpredictable." which enriches the atmosphere of the era.
Happy 40th Anniversary for What Waits Below (1984-2024).
I still think that the Lemurian warrior looks like a jacked albino Ziggy Stardust. Even since I saw this movie I kept seeing him as David Bowie LOL
Ha! Thanks for the visit!
This is a cool movie... almost in the same genre as "The Descent," but the latter film was far more gruesome! At least, the subterranean spooks in this movie had the decency to wear clothes!
Ha! Thanks for the visit!
I keep thinking this movie inspired James Cameron to create that 1989 movie The Abyss
The 80s were the best time of horror movies
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I agree dude 🙏
Awesome film-ology in the description! Thank you ❤️
Welcome.
Bravo for uploading in the correct aspect ratio! 🏆
Welcome.
I vaguely remember this being on TV as a kid. Robert Powell was awesome in this movie.
It's good to wax nostalgic. Thanks for watching!
"in a cave the only predicable element is unpredictable" brilliant line.
Thanks especially for all the background info in the description. 👍👍
Welcome.
Everytime I watch this I keep thinking how awesome it would have been to have Powell and Weary do a sequel with a different setting they were magic together in this film
Great idea! Welcome.
Never seen this before.
Thanks very much for the upload.
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Wow only saw the last 15mins 30 some yes ago then found it and saw the whole thing . I love this movie. Imagine if this was true. Thank you for putting this up
Welcome.
First time seeing this .Was not old enough in the 80 .Hope it's good .☮️💜
Hope you enjoy.
This is a great go-to movie. If you listen to his voice it's familiar - Robert Powell played Jesus of Nazareth. The Lemurian race is represented here in the underground caverns.
His also married to BABS PANS PERSON 🥰❣️💯🇬🇧😁COOL A??
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I really enjoyed this one! Thank you for the upload.
Welcome.
@@DonaldPBorchersOG I thank you for this upload too. It's always most appreciable when CZcams channels like yours can allow access to particularly enjoyable films like this that most of the mainstream TV may not.
A very nice upload thank you I havn't seen this for years.
Welcome.
Many thanks for sharing this!
Welcome.
Don, Thank You for showing this picture. Very good. My first time to see it. 👍👍 🍿. 🇺🇸.
You're welcome. Enjoy!
This is a brilliant movie
Very underated
In parts very scary and the whole film has tons of Atmosphere 👍
A hidden gem! As if Robert Powell didn't have enough after Asylum or the Asphyx and Richard Johnson in the Haunting, the Comeback, Island of Fishmen, Zombie Flesh Eaters, the Great Alligator, or... the Monster Club. Thanks for the upload!
Welcome.
Great 80's movie. It was perfect for scratching that analog sci fi itch.
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Enjoy!
There is NO scenario where I go into a cave with guns and lights against a bunch of blind people and I don't come out the winner, unless I run out of bullets and batteries. These people didn't use their resources to full effect.
Roger that. Thanks for the visit!
Not the worst on CZcams. If you like this kind of 80s low budget movie, maybe you even enjoy it.
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Well that was a goodie never seen it before
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For those that want to know the stalagmite Goliath is in Cathedral Caverns in Alabama.
Yes. I discuss this in the description. Thanks for the visit!
@@DonaldPBorchersOG Oh my bad, you'll have to forgive me, I didn't read the description before watching or typing
So this was Robert Powells debut into the US film industry. I know Powell mainly from his work with his mate and comedian Jasper Carrot in the sitcom "The Detectives". Powell worked on it as a favor for Jasper. He was also in the film adaptation of "Tommy" for all The Who fans.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I was in this movie.good seeing it again
Who were you?
@@mariekatherine5238 I was the soldier on the rock shooting at wolf and the other guy. After the beer can got shot .was also a driver for the cast.
If you ever see Order of the black eagle I'm the one at table playing cards and I pull out a gun then I get
A knife in my back and get killed
Welcome.
Fun being in this movie it was an honor
A joyous slice of bonkers! 🎉
Enjoy!
@@DonaldPBorchersOG how fab to get a comment from you. I love "Vamp" it's a classic! Thought you may like to know that I was banned from all sleep overs when I was a child, for taking "Children or the corn" along to a slumber party when I was nine and scaring the ever living shite out of all my nine years old girl pals. 😅
@@melhughes3567 Ha! FYI - I plan to post VAMP, along with a watch party, in a couple months.
The music is cheerful and bouncy in the opening scene. I hope this movie doesn't suck.....
Thanks for the visit!
that early-on stunt of jeep going over the cliff; i slowed it down and it's real guys standing on the jeep when it goes over and then falling with it, dangerous, I assumed it was dummies until i looked closer. Wonder how much they got paid? "Cause Im the unknown stuntman.."
You are correct. Actual stunt. Thanks for the visit!
If so you must some be some old fit bastard now. 😅😅😅
good movie, you can so tell that there is a different message that is being conveyed to us. Liked this movie.
Welcome.
@@DonaldPBorchersOG This guy goes to Hawaii and goes up to a native selling flowers, and says; How do you properly pronounce Island name. Is it Hawaii or Havaii? Glad you asked, it is HAVAII. Thank you so much. Your Velcome.
@@trevormiles5852 An elderly man is stopped by the police around 2 a.m. and is asked where he is going at this time of night.
The man replies, "I am on my way to a lecture about alcohol abuse and the effects it has on the human body, as well as smoking and staying out late."
The officer then asks, "Really? Who is giving that lecture at this time of night?"
The man replies, "That would be my wife."
@@DonaldPBorchersOG 🤣🤣
Well done 👏
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The sound, well the sound is like if they shot this as a silent movie and added sound, including voices, in a studio afterwards.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Thanks for the awesome sauce movie! Merry Christmas to all! God bless us all AMEN!
Welcome. Happy New Year!
Never saw this movie before but I like Robert Powell. Actually, not a bad film at all. I rather enjoyed it.
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it was a great movie, not cheesy
Welcome.
Thx, nice b movie for us oldtimers.
Welcome.
Love old flicks
Me, too. Thanks for the visit!
Watched 👀 from Pennsylvania USA 🇺🇸 This movie 🎥 was enjoyable ❤
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Great film! Thanks for sharing! So, the ancient Lemurians settled in Central America? Cool! What happened to Thongor? Ha
Welcome, and ... Good question!
Okay this didn't go where I expected it to go. Still, an alright flick. The mat paintings are nice too.
It's matte!
@@martinwilliams9866 Y-you mean they don't paint things on a mat?!
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@9:20- Belize is NOT in S. America, but in Central America. Who doesn't know THAT? @56:02- he hands Santos his weapon back saying, "It shouldn't "jam" on you again." It's a revolver! They don't 'jam'!
You make good points. Thanks for the visit!
Thank you
Welcome.
Ooopppss thought this was a Tom Waits song.💪🗣️🤩🤔💯✌️
Ha! Thanks for the visit!
This was a fun little flick.
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Even Robert Powell couldn’t save this one. Dreadful
Thanks for your opinion.
How did Jesus end up in this movie??
Ha! Obviously, his money-hungry agent brokered this deal. Thanks for the visit!
This is actually a watchable movie. That said, they spend way too much time above ground.
Roger that. Thanks for watching.
Not bad. Worth the watch.
Welcome.
A big part of this movie was filmed just 30 minutes from my home the huge caverns in Alabama
Did you want to be an extra in it?
@@DonaldPBorchersOG truth be told I didn't even know they where shooting a movie lol
@@robertleach230 Ha! Thanks for the visit!
I was watching Exorcist Believer but it was so bad sio I found this movie and it is so much better
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Guy hits the creature with the gun handle, perhaps he should just pulled the trigger instead of using it as a fly squatter ????
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Vaguely similar to the excellent science fiction novel "The Descent" which was dumbed down to become a horror movie also called " The Descent."
Except Descent was a true story.
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Interesting movie
Welcome.
Good movie!
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Hell waits below bring your hotdogs marshmellows hamburgers and beer , pop cigs.
It looked like a micheal jackson just beat it movie they looked like they all had plastic surgery
Yah...no...sorry kiddo, I'm a GPR Operator, I work in tunnels nearly 60 000 ft underground, below USA and Canada.
When I come back to the surface, that's Hell kid, you've never been underground, you can stay up on the surface, suffering, I'll stay down here, where time doesn't exist, we don't age and people like you, feed the bugs.
Mallow guy, marshmallow.
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There is no beer hamburgers marshmallows or hotdogs in hell. Only lettuce watercress sandwiches and carrot juice
Worth a watch,
Hope so
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Thanks
Welcome.
Never mess with Morlocks............with looms.
You got that right. Thanks for the visit!
Haven't seen this great movie in years
Fond memories. Enjoy!
Always wondered what became of Lisa Blount after An Officer and a Gentleman.
She had her career start on THE GONG SHOW in 1977, on the same episode with Pee Wee Herman.
@@DonaldPBorchersOG R.I.P. both : (
@@PresenceUponMe Thank you for your kind words.
@@DonaldPBorchersOG Thank you for your great movies!
Robert Powell was great in Jesus of Nazareth!
I agree. Thanks for the visit!
good story with some thoughtful attention to details, might have thought it was from a book for those reasons, eg susceptibility to disease,etc.
Glad you like it. Thanks for watching.
So when did they move Belize to South America?
And the Omega system required extremely long antenna wires....thousands of feet and straight lines..
not too many caves like that .
My dad had to visit one of those places on the east coast when he was in the military - he told me about it when I was a kid. The thing that stuck in my memory was the fact that visitors in vehicles had to park against a well-grounded metal fence to prevent getting a hefty shock when they got out of the car - the EMF around the antennas generated a charge in any piece of metal nearby - if the metal was isolated from the ground (like a car), it would ground through you when you touched it: imagine a dry carpet and your plastic shoes rubbing it
times ten....ouch!
You make good points. Thanks for the visit!
Amusing how people are analyzing the mistakes as if Hollywood is going to bother with authenticity
Esta película esta en YT en español como "caverna fantasma".
Thanks for the info.
I keep thinking the best movie is an inspiration for that James Cameron movie The Abyss from 1989
Roger that. Thanks for watching.
Pretty Good Thanks 👍
Glad you like it. Welcome.
It's like a Dr.Who episode, plus a couple of Americans thrown in.
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Don't make them any more super ❤
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This movie is pretty obsure, for years I never found anyone who even knew of it. It kind of turns into a Star Trek episode after a certain point, but I don't mind that. Much of it is a bit like The Descent. Be great if someone would do a proper blu ray release of it.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.
Not bad, pretty good.
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The creatures looked like novelty candy licorice.
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one of those great eighties movies soundtrack like miami vice
Right?! Thanks for the visit!
Surrounded by ancient, huge, phallic stalagmites, a subterrestrial hominid alien Fighter channels David Bowie practicing Mixed Martial Arts and is defeated by the Human spelunker who practices superior MMA and stabs the alien leader with the alien's magical crystal blade. The subterrestrial hominid alien Leader then transfers the alien ephod-mantle from the defeated alien fighter to the Human victor. You will not believe what happens next!
Stupid imaginary 90s movie
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Very good movie!
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Hola me encantan las peliculas de aventuras y espeologia , y geología son muy interesantes y entretenidas, es una historia fascinante, que se puede ajustar un poco a la realidad.
Ya que hoy en día no sabemos dentro de algunas cuevas o mundos subterráneos si aún puede quedar alguna civilización remota perdida en la noche de los tiempos , como lo que que encontro en La Cueva De Los Tallos , una buena pelicula con mucho suspense hasta el final , muchos saludos.🧭🧭🧭🗺🏞🏕🏕🏕❤😘🌄❤
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We'll see,all Star cast of drones
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and at the end things went back ti normal , yeah not bad , aye !
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My impression:
The film scenario is excellent. The storyline theme is original and holds a balanced middle between adventure, science fiction, anthropological and horror, none of any of those four pushing the others in a corner, the balance is kept up to the end. That makes it quite exceptional, as a scenario. There is very well developed story-wise logic, that also is not disrupted any moment. (It happens with lots of movies that the 'inner logic' at some point gets broken up with scenes that come in as if written for a different movie, and give absolutely unsatisfying feelings. Not here ! The only moment it becomes a little bit weaker is in the end. But at least, it's an open end leaving questions, not adding absurdities. (Loads full of films do have an end that clearly shows, the story writer/scenario writer had no idea how to built this end it in equilibrated logic.)
So, little weak points >
In the ending, it could be a little bit better (the scene where the bracelet is given back to the undergrounder, needed better followup to explain the 'peacefull' separation of undergrounders and explorers... I guess SOME budget and extra 5-8 minutes of film were needed to get a real satisfying end. (We know it was low budget, and already a lot of hours were lost due to the CO-intoxication incident...)
Other weak point, was the lack of storywise explanations on the black killing monsters. Just a short sequence in the film, not preceded by storywise evidence, neither followed by any storywise 'evidence' why the undergrounders did not seem to interfere with the monsters, only the explorers did. Here, it feels like if the idea of 'part horror' was introduced by some other member of the team, not the original storywriter ??? "A more or less loose drop in" , however, glued together quite well. It's forgiven.. lol lol (I'm guessing, but I observed lots of trouble in film making in general due to conflicts within the team.)
The production notes from Donand P. Borchers, are excitingly interesting :
"The director was unhappy". As we enjoy the results, I suspect is was much more about his personal feelings on the set (due to conflicts..) then about the quality level as such. (Who will know this ?) Fact is that storytelling / scenario is so strong, that whatever minor (budgetwise) quality cuts in the production are forgivable ! Lets remember: 'how to do a GOOD low budget film' , is a 1000 times more difficult then when swimming in production money. (And even then, a film can fail.. lol)
CHEERS ALL.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Welcome.
I would say it should be obvious that the Lemurians know full well about the cave creatures and avoid/use them as a food source.
In fact one might presume they were added to provide a presumption of other life in the caves.
Otherwise greater ambiguity about the Lemurians as cannibals would have made them much less relatable.
Just my two cents.
Great Movie! the good stuff starts at about 25min in,just saying
...and finishes at 29min. in!!!
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Thanks for the upload! Greets from Marcel The Netherlands Europe.
Hello, Marcel. You're welcome.
Enjoyed this movie, thanks!!. Just one observation, at 9:21 they are at a camp in Belize, but inside the tent where they're being briefed there's a red, yellow and green flag which happens to be Bolivia's.
Good catch. You might want to post that blooper on the movie's trivia page: contribute.imdb.com/updates/edit?edit=tt0088392/fun-facts&ref_=tt_trv_trv
@@DonaldPBorchersOG I'll check it. Cheers 👍🍺
I thought they said Nicaragua.
You can't count on movies to be completely accurate