Finding the perfect amplifiers for Magnepan Speakers - The Maggie 3.7i amp shootout
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- We compare 3 different sets of monoblock amps (all different topologies) to see which can push the best sound out of the legendary Magnepan Planar Magnetic Speakers.
These amplifiers are all amazing choices but will there be a standout winner?
Michi M8
PS Audio BHK 300
Audio Research Reference 210
Full Listening notes:
tmraudio.com/blog/finding-the...
Chapters below
0:00 Introduction
1:38 The Shootout Process
2:56 Pairing Amplifiers with Maggies
5:12 The Amps for this Shootout
9:29 Our Listening Categories
11:43 The Shootout
18:23 Conclusion
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#audiophile #hifi #magnepan #speakers - Hudba
I drive my 3.7i’s with Bob Carver Crimson 350s , a match made in heaven.
1.7i's with my Tube Carvers - Bob made winners with these.....and the 275's
A very good point is made here about the Maggies not being hard-to-drive speakers on their own, the somewhat low impedance is not really challenging for any decent amp, but combined with their low sensitivity - will put the power supply to a test - which gives the edge to mono blocks with their dual power supplies.
Probably 99% of speakers on the market are box speakers with dynamic drivers, and these are what every amplifier must handle. Their power supplies need high voltage to be able to overcome the impedance peaks and big capacitors to deliver current where impedance dips. Constantly power-hungry speakers need constant current supply, which depletes the caps in the long run leading to audible power compression.
A lot of work you put into this. My suggestion, agreeing with some others, is to not use the subwoofers for tests. Always take out as many variables as possible.
I've got MG-1s, almost 50 years old. I used to power them with a Phase Linear 700 that became a Flame Linear over a decade ago so they have been silent for quite a while. As I look online with all the trouble people have, I'm afraid to fire them up. I'm not confident the original manufacturer glue will still hold. In their day, they were the most beautiful sounding I've ever heard.
What a great job that is! We back in 1973 to 1975. I did that too, but the speakers with the original Timpani’s and we were using Macintosh, and biamping Audio Research! Are you back so many memories power back when Wendel was at ARC and the 8 panel timpani’s were released!
I wonder what it will be like when you turn 67?,
Ordered the 3.7i's to replace my 1.6's, and I just bought the Michi set....had to buy from two different dealers, one is over 2,000 miles away. Don't care, this system should last me 20 years, and with the SVS PB 14 Ultra, a Shanling tube CD player and a good turntable and Xbox, this upgrade package will be truly fantastic. Great review, helped me convince myself of the match that I had hoped for. Cheers!
One the most substantive reviews on youtube. Excellent work Duncan, thanks! My Maggie 1.7i’s driven by parasound halo JC5 gave me an auralgasm when I first heard “Timbres”. Awesome album. This album is the gift that keeps giving.
How are your Maggies placed in your room? BTW, I have the 1.7i too.
@@AF-rd2vf I follow somewhat closely Linkwitz published works on dipole speaker placement. Short answer is they are about 6 feet from front wall and the side wall reflection is managed by dipole null while the front wall first reflection is treated by GIK polyfusor.
I would seriously consider Bryston equipment
JC5 and Maggie's is a good match indeed!
what a brilliant video thank you for this revealing insight into Amps / speakers
what an excellent video, thanks for doing this!
Great work, Duncan. Miss the podcast!
The Wyred 4 Sound SX-1000R monoblocs work very good too, for those wanting to hear their maggies sing with a little less budget. 1200WPC into 4 ohms with a big damping factor, the maggies sound amazing.
This was cool. My Hegel h360 works very well indeed with my Maggie LRS.
Trying out some monos is next on my list
Interesting video using the 3 different topologies. So thanks 💯
I’ve just connected the 1.7i to a Tempo (di GaN) AGD stereo amp….Match made in heaven. IMO using Lyngdorf as pre-amp with Room Perfect to crossover the subs.but the RME ADI DAC/ (set as pre-amp) sounds slightly more detailed and still with out any sibilance or fatigue over long listening. Enjoy the music 🎶
Been a Maggie fan for over 10 years, owning 4 pairs over the years including this 3.7i, & having listened extensively many more at friends. I found Maggies are more room (both size & placement) dependent than partnering equipments. Optimal size for 3.7i for instance is 300-400 sq.ft., it will over energise rooms below 250 sq,ft. with boomy bass in particular. Speaker placement is also critical for deep soundstage & clean bass, I found placing them roughly 35-40% down the room length from the back wall, & within 1 foot from side walls produce the best results.
I was planning to put 1.7i's in my 800 sg ft space w 15 ft ceiling. They'd go on the long wall, about 3 ft out, as close or far apart as I want, but lots of space to their sides and above. As an experienced Maggie owner, do you think I'm crazy? Is my plan feasible? Thanks.
@@issadad Your space is huge, doubt if any Maggie can fill it adequately, nevermind the 1.7i. With a room of that size I would go for classy horn speakers, augmented by some 15” subwoofers.
@@henrymok8740 Thanks, Henry. Was afraid you'd say that. So this is how it goes, even if I'm sitting in a nice tight triangle on a 10 ft x 10 ft postage stamp in the middle of all that space? It's only me in the sweet spot that has to work . . . Damn. So what's a "classy" horn speaker, something like Klipsch Cornwall 4s or whatever?
@@issadad Trust me, 1.7i won’t generate enough sound energy for your huge room. It would be like listening to small radios in a normal room, tinny sound with no presence. Klipsch horn speakers are good, just get the largest 2nd hand pair you can find/afford.
@@henrymok8740 Just to let you know how much I appreciate your candor and experience. In my big space I put down a 12 x 12 rug to create a virtual room within a room, and I had hoped, foolishly, to set up a near field hi-fi experience within that 12 x 12 postage stamp, surrounded on both sides and above by "extra" space I was trying to ignore. It only needs to sound good, I thought, from my listening chair on that 144 sq ft rug with speakers only 9 ft away. Your responses have helped me realize my wishful blunder. Thanks.
QUAD ARTERA MONO, PERFECT!!
D-Sonic M3a-1200 is a great amp, plus using the SMSL SU-9 as preamp.
I like your video and is a accurate description of Magnepans and there requirements. My only complaint is looking at your room and seeing absorption drapes behind the Magnepans, I do not believe in absorption on the front wall and especially with dipole speakers. And as a suggestion ( from seeking Magnepans for years ) try reversing left and right speakers with tweeters on the outside. Of course they would need to be placed much closer together but they are more open sounding and more coherent. Also personally although there are some solid state amplifiers that will work reasonably with Magnepans I find that both planar magnetic and electrostatic speakers all shine with vacuum tubes. But all in all a good and well done video
Thanks for watching, we have been experimenting with the curtains and room treatment. It is fascinating how much something like that can change the sound of a wide array of speakers.
The Jeff Rowland’s also sound great with Maggie’s
A similar shoot out with LRS or .7 and some
we are looking forward to doing something similar when we get our allocation of LRS!
Parasound JC5 would be a great match too.
How is the hint6 a $2k amp? Lmao
Sanders Magtech. 900 watts per channel into 4 ohms with the stereo amp. A monoblock is also available.
Own 20.7s?
Totally depending what kind of music you are listening to. We have “Maggies” in two different rooms and i prefer NAD amplifiers combined with them for the classical music/opera we are listening to. Sure - monster amps will probably sound better but won’t change the fact that the speakers are revealing bad recordings right away….with or without a high end amp connected to them.
sounds like the Michi Rotel won.Very well done analysis.One would need a top of the line source/da converter to maximize this set up.
Simply amazing video! Bravo! I have LRS with a few different amplifiers....Pass Lab 50wch ClassA, VTA ST120 Tube 60wch, B&O ICE 200wch Class D, Sound Artist SA200ia 100wch Class AB....(And I just ordered a MiniGaN FET amplifier and a Buchardt I150 integrated with Hypex amps but haven't received them yet).....Out of all of them, the easy choice is the Pass Labs First Watt F5v2.....50wch ClassA is plenty if you have lots of current and a good damping factor.....The other amps all sound good, until you hook up the Pass Labs......Can't wait to see what the GaN FET does!
Please let us know how it went with your new gear. Looking forward to your results.
I find it interesting all the people in the comment praising Class D amps when Magnepan has shy away from recommending such amps with their speakers.
My 20+ year old Meridian 559 does a grand job of driving my 3.6R’s.
I still have my Magnepan MG-1.5/QR speakers and Adcom GFA-555 II amp from over 30 years ago and they still work fine, although not being presently used. At the time it was a pretty great setup for me, and it's hard to beat those speakers for detail and sound staging when properly set up.
Good review in general. I would have liked to have seen Hypex nc400 monoblocks or Purifi 1ET400s in their for comparison.
Yamaha MX-1000, 1.000 W/channel at 1 Ohm! (480w at 4Ohm, 280W at 8 Ohm)
You used the Audio Research 210 that was designed 22 years ago (2005) rather than the current Reference 160M for this comparison? Sounds like an ad for the Michi M8.
Can you share details of that skyscraper diffusor on your wall behind the Maggies? Pretty!
Anyone looking for something budget - - I've found a great match for my 3.7i's with the Bel Canto Ref600m's (monoblocks), a highly regarded Class D Amp design by John Stronczer, 600 Watts into 4 ohms - - the linestage I'm running is the ARC Ref6SE so soundstage etc., is glorious (last I knew, ARC is still using maggies for their voicings, probably something there for synergy was my thinking on that) - - been messin' with Maggies since the early 80's and like you guys are showing here, and at least in my room, the tweeters "in" provides the best coherency, there's no stopping the width of the soundstage, it doesn't need "extra help" - anyway, tweeters out sounds great at first but somehow, at least to me, a touch unnatural over time so I've always reverted back. Excellent vid - thanks for posting it.
Why not test the amplifiers without a subwoofer so it doesn’t distort your results?
The amps are also directly connected to the subwoofers via high-level (speaker) inputs, so the amp's sound character should theoretically flow through there as well. Note the use of REL subwoofers here.
@@zonto22 If it were me I would have done the comparison without subwoofers but whatever.
@@bryanherr1093 I would agree. All this test is doing is seeing which amp matches up best with dual cornered dual stacked Rel subwoofers.
Better to perform independent test then perhaps advise what type of sub may work best in combo with the Mags.
Still a good test and vid.
I personally don’t like tubes because too much heat and maintenance and open area potential damage and dust. I think tubes are best sounding but not worth cost and maintenance.
I like mono blocks too but not worth it.
I love Mags also but worry about degradation over time and my room area and seating arrangement is not ideal for them.
@@zonto22 You're not going to hear the characteristics of the amp through the subs. Its still the best way to do it. Using the amp to deliver the signal offers better integration.
@@bryanherr1093 You make a valid point. Subs do a lot. They don't just extend the low frequencies. Every system is different, so not everything is effected the same way. On some systems, if you turn the subs off, the whole soundstage with collapse.
I have the .7's Maggie's and for awhile l was driving them with my VAC PA 100 100 tube amp I felt they could they could use more watts/current I found a Spectron musical MK lll class D amp designed by John Ulrich It puts out 500watts@8ohm 650@4ohms and 1,200 watts@1ohm
Also 65 amps for 500 milliseconds
All l can say is, the Maggie's have really come to life
D-Sonic works very well with Maggies!!
A solid, well informed review, but with all respect - I find the use of powered subs in such a comparison rather counterproductive
helpful.looking to buy 2,7s
A couple of old school Parasound HCA1200’s in mono wake up my MMG’s
Sound so good, my la scalas are in storage
Are you interested in selling your La Scalas?
Some 8-10 years ago I had 3.5Rs. I tried various amps, using an active XO, and finally threw in the towel. Why no GaN amps, or PSAudio 1200s instead of the BHK? My current speakers are Emerald Physics 3.4s Open Baffle 12" concentric woofer with 1" polyester tweeters. They are only 41" high, but throw an equally large stage. My amps are a LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp with dual modules 350wpc+, and A EVS 1200 with dual ICEpower AS 1200 modules; same as in the PSAudio M1200s, but no tube input, and lots of tweaks. I suspect either of them would be great for maggies
Anything on the “budget” category..? Schiit? Adcom?
Nice to read that everyone is telling how good their amps are. But don't forget the room acoustics as also one of the most important things in the chain. Then the ears. Not everybody have the same ears and what is your reference? And how does live music sound?
So it's a way more difficult than just an amplifier & speaker match. Finally always try things at home.
3.7i’s with Jeff Rowland 625 S2 = Beautiful synergy!
That sound amazing! gotta love some rowland
It would be great if you could make a video on your experiences in positioning the magnepans, and room/speaker interaction. I'm battling room-boom with my MG20s, which wasn't an issue with the various cabinet speakers I've tried.
Great suggestion. Amp pairing and placement can be difficult with Maggies, but when you get it right, it can be magical.
Have I completely missed it, or did he never crown a winner in this "shootout"?
Been listening and have owned maggies since 1977... numerous amps over the years. Ampzilla, Threshold, PS Audio, and now I have 1.7i's and have both Krell and Audio research amplifiers... and as the author says... you've got to play around... I use AR tube pre and Schitt dac... Linn TT and a Krell CD (collecting dust)... its a great hobby...
Which Krell and AR amps do you have? I’m looking for a new amp for my 1.7is as my McCormack DNA-1 looks to have reached the end of its life
@@PhilipJanoff I have the KAV 250A... I also have an AR VT-100 Mk II which doesn't have the bottom end of the Krell... but I just plugged in a REL Sub so I may play with the AR again... I use an AR preamp LS 16... and an LS 17... I used to have a weekend house hence two systems... If you consider the Krell, they're old... mine sounds great and has never needed service, but I'd probably be prepared to recap it... just in case...
may I suggest try quad 44 + 405-2 ?
What’s the rest of equipment you used?
Which amp was the most musically coherent?
Dude, give us the amp prices please
I'm driving MAGNEPAN .7 with Parasound JC5 and dual SVS SB-16 Ultra subs.
For number one I’m a purist I’m an audio file I’m 79 years old and I work with hi-fi since I was 13 1/2 years the most important thing to get magna plants to crystallize is damping factor and you need a lot and current. Everything else is not necessary. You have those two factors and you got magna plans that sound tiptop with your supposed to sound like a design guaranteed you do some a beam you get 390 angle which works nine which works for the handle 490 with 4000 camping camping is quickness reflective in mylar panels which we have here I don’t care what you’re going through guys you’re going to spend money but you get up to spend at least $7000-$9000 for an amp that kicks ass with magna pants and I’ll put my shorts up anything you want to put up and put 10 people in their know this speaker I’ll win I know what I’m talking about. Enjoy the hobby and don’t miss lead these people. Thank you.
I tried Solid-state but could not stand the steely sound then I tried some Bat VK-55 mono tube amps and was blown away beautiful full sounding sweet no listener fatigue like the steely state soulless amps and I still got full rich bass and gorgeous midrange with sweet highs that did not pierce my ears as solid-state hard sounding amps will do. I can not understand why anyone can like solid-state the only good ones I heard were the price of a Mercedes Benz S class lol.
Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms w 20.7s 😊
How many sets of the LRS do you think you’ll sell? How many sets of those insane monsters? It would have been a lot more helpful and beneficial to you I’d think if you’d done this with the LRS
Thank you for the suggestion. The LRS+ is very very popular and we would love to do another shoot out with them!
Build your own pair of Hypex nc400 monoblocks for about $1400. If you can build a PC you can build the nc400 which has a 120db SNR at rated power and around 105 db SINAD.
I don't understand why everyone is using gigawatt amps to drive their Maggies. I have original MG-IIIa speakers (refurbished once) and drive them with an old Adcom GFA-535 amp (100 watts/channel into 4 ohms). I can drive my Maggies to deafening levels - so loud I can't possibly be in the room with them - what I would call deafening levels - before the amp's clipping lights come on. This is in a 14'x22' room.
Hi, I'm just about to replace all 6 tubes on my Ref 3, so want to re-set the counter. I believe there's a button somewhere to do it, but I can't see it anywhere - anyone have any ideas please?
WARNING: after replacing tubes, this function should be reset to “0” only by a qualified technician. Hours display can be reset to “0" by pressing black button labeled “Reset Hours” located on lower right corner of circuit board directly behind display window. The preamp must be “On” to reset function-the service technician must be careful to avoid any contact with other circuit components during reset operation. Contact Audio Research customer service (763-577-9700) for information regarding this procedure.
for a lower price set for 2.7s how about the Rotel 1590?
Thanks, mostly what I've heard about Maggies is that they require high current amps which seems to be more important than wattage. So wouldn't it be more helpful if amp manufacturers specify what the current is if that is possible?
20.7s & Coda TS v3 800w@4ohms
The problem is there's no standard manufacturers use for measuring an amps power, so each company rates them however they see fit. If you took 10 different amps from 10 different manufacturers and rated them all the same way, every one would put out a different amount of power. This has been a problem in the industry for decades. It sucks for a beginner that doesn't have much experience, but over time it won't be an issue. With more hands on experience you'll be able to see certain things. For example, a $500 Sony receiver in Best Buy, should preform close to the other brands they also sell for about the same price. They're all competing for the same customer.
In this video, one of the recommended amps is the PS Audio BHK. If that amp is working well for those speakers, I instinctively know you can replace it with an equivalent amp from Bryston, Sim Audio, Jeff Rowland, Ayre and a few others. All those amps will sound different, but they'll all drive the Magnepans with no problems. And you can always work with a dealer. That's what they're there for. There are still a few good ones out there. If you tell me what part of the country you live in, I may know someone.
Get the Rite of Spring or any Mahler symphony on there and you'll not only reach for the remote, something I just LOVE watching audio salesperson's do, but you'll fumble it in an avalanche of sound.
I say PUFFAW!!! to popular music.... PUFFAW!!!!!
If I ever have the money, and I never will, I'll go with Paul's stuff, he at least has the kahoonahs to go on CZcams and present himself and his company.
Rel does it the best way to hook them up
Questions that linger............................................................
1. During streaming, any Digital/Analog Converter in the signal stream may change the sonic characteristics of the music. Right? In my case and in many others', I also have an Analog/Digital Converter (modem) in my signal stream. Why aren't sonics altered in that device too? Or why isn't it being acknowledged?
2. Why are there so many of the very expensive, audiophile RCA patch cords and almost none of the XLR patch cords (cables)?
3. Why aren't loudspeaker crossovers rated for efficiency? Amp watts "in" pre-crossover vs. Amp watts out post crossover all drivers summed. This seems like an important specification. I want to know how many of my carefully cultivated watts are being dumped as heat. 🔊
Hegel H590 or the New H600 done
Welcome to the parallel universe of cost-no-object hi-fi, where actual sound samples appear to be beside the point.
What equipment do you use to listen to youtube?
@@user-ex9zm7bg3x AKG 701 headphones powered by Naim plugged into iMac.
take a dm 600/610 from b&w . conect with a vortex amp.
magnepan lost very very much the power
Solid state works with subs but do not use them on full range speakers. Tube amps produce music solid state produces noise. Solid state is good for loud house parties for kids Tubes are for music lovers who want to enjoy music and feel the music. If you just want loud and obnoxious with booming bass then solid state by all means those transistors have no soul but a glowing tube a very old technology does just like in the modern world the past people were more soulful and less robotic.
Workout further dew
Ridiculous
Big system set-up. All talk. No play. I hate it!!!
you should take Lamm M1.2 Reference!!!!
If you aren't biamping your maggies, you aren't doing it right.
What the heck, without sound clips this is mute. Sad. Why don’t you learn to do sound clips like everyone else does, please? And make your efforts pay.
PS Audio - no.
What?! No sound samples? What a waste. And next time wear a different shirt. That's terrible
What equipment do you use to listen to youtube?
so never buy magnepan . you lost your money . don t do