Pittsburgh's Light Rail Returned to Penn Station - For One Weekend! (feat. Toronto Transit Channel)
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Penn Station, the station connecting Pittsburgh's light rail to the East Busway and the city's Amtrak station, has been closed since 2007...mostly. Tonight, due to track work, it's open. We took advantage.
Special thanks to @Token_Nerd for his appearance in this video!
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Classy Whale - at-least-weekly misadventures with trains and transit!
We need a special trespassing episode where Caleb makes up for all the restricted property he never entered unlawfully.
Good Christian Boy
Thank you so much for filming this! I rode the T everyday for 4 years when I lived in Pgh, and never once was the Penn Station spur open for riders. They should absolutely reopen the spur, possibly serving as the terminus for Brown Line trains, should that service reopen as well. 😃
I used the spur in the 1980s and 1990s and it goes nowhere. The Spur ends at the East Bus Way, but the people taking the buses that go on the East Bus Way get on and off the bus in downtown proper not Penn Station.
As to Penn Station itself, Amtrak wants you to exit the Pittsburgh Station on the bottom floor and exit onto Liberty Avenue.
Now Amtrak, in the 1990s, did keep open a path to cross the Busway to get to the LRV station buy closed it by fencing it in the early 1990s (and this was to the levrl where the trains are, the ticket and main waiting area is one floor down). When that route was fenced off you could no longer go directly to or from the train to the LRV or from the LRV to the Train. If you are on the train, you had to go downstairs and then around old Penn Station to Liberty avenue and the exit of the East Busway, then back up along the busway to get to the LRV Station. If you wanted to go from the LRV station to the trains, you had to do the reverse. Worse it was a commuter train that ran less then once a hour and then just to the next LRV station. It often was faster to walk to the next station and get the LRV route you needed at that station then to wait for the commuter to make its short commute.
The intention was good, but the actual implementation around Penn Station was terrible given the old Railroad station did not want any commuters to enter the old station but instead walk all around the old station to use the new crapy station Amtrak built to the old station's rear.
I am old enough to remember the old station. In the 1960s I went with my brother to the old station when he entered the US Navy and was being sent to the Great Lakes Naval Training Center. It was a nice large lobby on the same level as the trains, not the ugly, cramp, and over crowded station Amtrak uses today.
@@paulmentzer7658 I agree. The current Amtrak basement is pathetic. It's not even as nice as the Greyhound terminal across the street! The fencing is inconvenient, but I understand it for security reasons.
The commute around the station building down to the basement is still easier and shorter than walking from Steel Plaza, especially when carrying luggage. Same for getting to the Greyhound station. Also, I am certain more East Busway riders would use the Penn Station stop if the light rail was extended and they had the option to do so.
Additionally, there are a few non-Pittsburgh Regional Transit buses that use the East Busway Penn Station stop as their primary terminus. It really is the closest thing Pittsburgh has to a downtown transfer center, so it would only make sense that the T should extend to it. And for those not entirely familiar with the downtown bus routes (especially during times of disruption, parades, holidays, even rush hour), the Penn Station stop just makes sense. You KNOW that the busway buses will stop there and will make a speedy trip down the East Busway. With the downtown stops, it is anyone's guess.
I agree
"A long time ago"
*2007*
Graduated HS in '07, the march of time is relentless.
Great content btw, keep it up man
At 6:44 As a Philadelphian I always wanted to know that man. Thanks!!!!
Shout out to the 69th Street Terminal man.
Can't help but think of the Newark City Subway/Newark Light Rail watching this and seeing that underground downtown section. Though unlike the light rail station of Pittsburgh's Penn Station, Newark Penn's light rail station is very much alive and well and it's the southern terminus of both NLR lines (there's two tight loops for the light-rail to turn around in the other direction; for people transferring between lines, they're told to stay on as the platforms for people getting off and on are different). The one-way fare is 1.60 for adults but is even cheaper if you only travel between the underground stations at 75 cents!
The amount of lost tourists I encountered at gateway this weekend was above average.
The juxtaposition of Guy Smiley and Sam the Eagle is comedy gold.
Hahahahahahaha
I hate how accurate this is...I should just change my channel name to Angry Transit Nerd
@@ClassyWhaleShout from UPMC
This was a very interesting video. It is always great to get a rare piece of track and it all looks in such good condition, it is a pity that it doesn't get more use.
Pittsburgh uses the same LRV model as St. Louis light rail with slight alterations. That operator cab layout looks exactly the same down to the buttons and switches.
It's the exact same car.
Only difference is that St Louis doesn't use the low level end doors as all their platforms are high level.
It would be nice if they bring this station back. Discovered this by accident yesterday when trying to get to the north side. For many years I wondered why they haven’t been using the tracks 3 and 4, they use them sometimes for station square shuttle when the mainline is closed.
Light rail should be extended to more areas of Pittsburgh too. Even further out to Oakland, or maybe as far as Monroeville
Thanks for taking us for a ride over the rare mileage on Pittsburgh’s light rail. Every time I have visited Pittsburgh it was never active. As to the Norristown line in the Philadelphia suburbs the reason it is not really a trolley or heavy rail line is because it was built as a interurban rail line. When it was first built it was ment to be a much larger system. It did achieve a true interurban character in years past by working with Lehigh Valley transit and having through service to and from Allentown, Pa. As for now it just serves as a good local line between 69th street transportation center and Norristown. It connects at 69th street with the SEPTA heavy rail Market-Frankford elevated- subway line through center city Philadelphia. It also makes connections with SEPTA’s suburban busses at both 69th street and Norristown as well as the commuter train line back to Philadelphia also in Norristown.
I notice the last time I was on the light rail the "Silver line" alternated with the "Blue line" i.e. an inbound "Blue line" car becomes an outbound "Silver car" line. In the 1970s, PAT did this alternation between the Drake line (Now the Blue Line) and the Library line. In the 1970s the 42/38 Mt Lebanon via Beechview line turned around at the Clearfield loop (now parking) and only one or two cars a day ran between Mt Lebanon and Castle Shannon on what was only one track with sidings. I suspect those runs were to get cars to the end of Library and Drake Lines given the Valley Line along PA 51 was mostly Single tracks with sidings (All but the Bridge over 51 were single track, the bridge over 51 had been built in the 1930s when PA 51 was made a four lane toll road by the County. The tolls paid off the bonds issued to finance building PA 51 from the intersection with PA 88 to the Liberty tunnels and were paid off by 1939.
the PCC would go to Penn station and hit one side of the station, then go out of the station and loop around on a loop track before returning to service the platform on the side closest the busway.
I’ve never seen a light rail station as big as Steel Plaza.
It's pretty incredible
The Steel Plaza was designed so that a multiple floor building could be built on top of it. And the Plaza is connected to TWO TUNNELS from the 1800s. The Light Rail Vehicles uses the old connecting rail tunnel between Penn Station and the Southside AND a Canal tunnel build in the 1830s to connect the C&O Canal with the Pennsylvania Canal. The C&O Canal never made it over the mountains so for over 150 years it was not used but when US Steel built the US Steel building it used that Canal to connect to what later became the Steel Plaza station. I knew people who took the LRV to work and once on the LRV never went outside at all. They took that old tunnel, now a walkway with small shops from the Steel Plaza Stop to the US Steel building.
Given the plan was to use the old Railroad tunnel and Canal tunnel and build a multi floor office building above it, the station had to be large and strong this why it is so large.
They need to re-open that station permanently
I hear it’s open on weekends for the time being- will be visiting steel plaza to confirm later today
its goona be every weekend for up to two years
sweet!
@@ClassyWhale i am a rail fan in pgh i sent you a msg to facebook i will send you a link to my flickr
Are you fr? Definitely want to go check it out some weekend if you’re fr
Why don't they keep the Penn Station light rail station open permanently? And also extend the light rail onto the MLK busway, which would serve both busses and light rail trains?
PRT hates rail. That’s why.
@@SebisRandomTech why does PRT hate rail? The problem is busses don't have as much capacity, and they pollute.
@@Spaceshotx7 Your answer's as good as mine. Unfortunately you won't get a solid answer from anybody at PRT because if you say something even remotely critical of them you'll get banned from their social media.
@@SebisRandomTech Why would you get banned if you say something on their social media page disagreeing with certain things, including constructive feedback?
@@Spaceshotx7 Because their public relations director has a very fragile ego and he/their management never like to admit when they're wrong about something.
theres talk at shv rail yard about bringing the Light Rail into penn station as the brown line
hope the rumors are true! pity to let the infrastructure go to waste
They need to focus on getting more service on the existing alignment first. It's pretty bad particularly at night and on sundays (usually the time when the major sports teams play btw).
It literally makes no sense for the brown line to not be open.
@@urbanpreppie05 Ada compliant stops are the issue that’s why it shutdown plus they claimed the name was racist
@@john-ic9vj only 60 operators now
A free speaker on the MTA light rail, and a free umbrella on the PRT light rail. Wonder what you’d get on the RTD light rail? 🤔
A...shall we say, higher calling?
I think Penn Station's line should be extended to East Liberty or Wilkinsburg. Then to the South, the train heading into the eastern part of the city terminates at Station Square.
People along the East Busway have been pushing for a LRV instead for at least 30 years, but PAT hates rail. The latest PAT plan is to convert the Library LRV line to a Busway that is how much PAT hates rail.
The main problem to expanding rail, is PAT'S hatred of rail. Once you get pass that problem, how do you expand rail service eastward. First would be to put LRV tracks in the East Busway and convert the East Busway to a LRV system.
One problem with converting to a LRV system is Pittsburgh LRV uses "Pennsylvania Gauge" of 5 foot 2 1/2 inches instead of Railroads standard gauge of 4 foot 8 1/2 Inches. That is a difference of six inches but that permits a dual rail gauge system. Two trains of different gauges use on common left rail but two different right rails that in a standard gauge and Pennsylvania gauge system would be six inched apart.
Most dual Gauge systems are standard and narrow Guage systems. The best example of this in Pennsylvania is on some not used dual tracks of the East Broad Top Railroad. Technically the East Broad top runs no trains on such tracks today but the route remains open and needs extensive rebuilt but in one area where the train tracks cross a state highway Penndot put in the dual track system and you can see it clearly.
There are Federal Laws that prohibit light rail cars such as the LRVs from operating on lines open to heavy freight (the laws were passed after several bad rail accidents in the late 1800s) but that can be worked around.
The biggest problem with getting people to use mass transit instead of they cars is the Mass Transit must be as fast as taking a car, and given buses run in automotive traffic that is rarely possible with buses. LRVs offer the option of a mass transit system independent of not only traffic going in the same direction but cross traffic, both will slow down any traffic not only mass transit but automotive traffic. LRVs in many ways are better then buses for LRVs can force planners to better separate them from Automotive traffic.
In many ways that is the key to good mass transit, removing it from Automotive traffic but most transit planners see mass transit something for the poor and thus want to provide it as cheaply as possible and that tends to be buses that run in Automotive traffic.
Just a comment we all need to fight for better mass transit for if done right, will speed up movement not only on the mass transit systems themselves but by removing buses, and many drivers, from Automotive traffic, most Automotive traffic also.
PRT should absolutely restore service to Penn Station! It’s right by the East Busway, Amtrak station, Greyhound station, and commuter bus area. And the tracks and the station are already there. Seems like a no brainer!
It wouldn’t fit in with the normal lines that go to the north shore, but it could make sense if they set it up as some kind of automated transfer to and from the east busway. Widening the tunnel to make it double track would also help a lot with frequency.
Why not just have one of the lines (perhaps the Blue Line) terminate at Penn instead of Allegheny? I’m not against double-tracking to Penn (especially if the line were eventually extended), but I don’t think it would be necessary to restore service to Penn in the short term. PRT already offers free transfers, so transfers to the East Busway would be free and more convenient, especially if the light rail and busway schedules were coordinated. Transfers to Amtrak, Greyhound, and other regional transit providers would also be much more convenient.
If you extended it onto the east busway, why not just turn the busway into light rail and integrate it into the network? Gets you a direct connection to the Amtrak station.
If Pittsburgh had regional rail, it would probably be used since the Pennsylvanian and Capital Limited arrive very late in the evening (I think the Pennsylvanian is early enough it should anyway) /early in the am (service should start to meet the Capital in theory since many services start at 5am and I think it's scheduled for 5:30)
the city actually had commuter rail out towards mckeesport called the pa train over former B&O trackage. it was discontiuned in 1989.
@@daywalkingvampire1521 This I know, but tracks don’t exist anymore-and didn’t even know that’s where the PATrain went until recently
some of the tracks remain out in versailes where ther dead end@@history_leisure
They ran it briefly, decided it was a failure, and discontinued it. A very common thing throughout the US. Transit just isn't taken seriously here.@@daywalkingvampire1521
very nice, was curious about this underground spur.
maybe if they built the spine line the penn station spur could be integrated into the system
You guys should come down here now! Steel Plaza station is a 🤬 mess!!
“Caleb’s going to read your questions”😅 I see we are adding new variants
I took the light rail from South Hills Village yesterday. Planned to go to Allegheny and didn't know about the detour until the last minute. No announcement on the whole ride until we left Steels Plaza. Was hoping you could catch this, and so glad you did!
Nice video! I was glad to be able to ride it this weekend as well, and it seemed to work well with managing all 3 lines. The question at the end about the NHSL was marvelous, as many have debated what the NHSL could be identified as in modern terms for years. My piano teacher called it "The Trolley" as opposed to "The [R5] Train" though. :)
See my earlier comment as to why the NHSl is neither a trolley or commuter or heavy rail it started life as an interurban that was envisioned to be much larger than exists today. It serves as one of SEPTA’s heavier used suburban lines with relatively frequent service and almost runs 24 hours a day.
Nice ride
I just realized that the nhsl is very similar to the dlr
I never no that a small light rail have a abandoned station
not so rare now lol. gonna be used until the end of may
I just missed it! 🤣
Is Pittsburgh worth visiting for a transit lover? I might be visiting sometime later in the year and I wanna do my research on PRT
Yes! Please visit!
Absolutely! The system may be smaller than others, but we have 2 inclines (very unique in the US!), the T lines are really nice to ride through the South Hills, and the Busways are all pretty unique (and the East Busway is especially fast!).
C'mon dahn!
Having no idea about that side of PA, was there plans to ever extend that or was it always just a stub at Penn Station?
The tail tracks here extend directly onto the East Busway, so in theory could be converted to take over the busway alignment to provide that fully-grade separated alignment with higher-capacity, slightly-faster vehicles, but the section of single track forced by columns for the US Steel Tower between Steel Plaza and Penn Station would be a pretty nasty bottleneck.
@Rob Davidoff it's a real shame the designers didn't consider designing around a future track being placed. But considering neither the busway or the light rail "subway" existed yet, I suppose we will give them a pass
@@john-ic9vj Yeah, as I understand the Steel Tower narrowed the existing two-track line through its site, then part of the then-abandoned Pittsburgh & Steubenville Extension Railroad Tunnel, and we're kind of lucky any of it survived at all.
Was planned for Oakland
I think the original heavy rail line used the Penn Station stub tunnel to get from the Panhandle Bridge to the tracks at Pittsburgh Union Station. When the light rail subway system was put in, it made sense just to put the tracks right on through the tunnel.
I'm going to the Wood St. Station for the first time to get to the PPG arena. Is there really a tram for downtown Pittsburgh? I need to go near PPG Paints Arena near Centre Ave. Is it better to take the bus? Is there a mobile app? I'm not sure what ticket to purchase. Could you help me out?
Steel Plaza is your best station for PPG, you'll only need to walk a few blocks. You can purchase tickets on your phone with the Port Authority Ready2Ride app; buy a day pass and show the driver or scan your phone at whatever station you get on, if a scanner is available
@@ClassyWhale Thank you so much!
Should've given him a capicola or pastrami
as stated in the video, it's almost like they should send one of the lines here regularly.
Thumbnail looked like MBTA Greenline
Watching this video made me realize that my on-camera personality is terrible lol.
Dude your onscreen personality was amazing
Run the silverline there
I we should meet you i see u one day you in Pittsburgh OH I'm Jeremiah
Foam.
😊2 cars only? I thought Pittsburgh would run more cars.
Can't fit more than that in the city blocks. Each car is about 80-90ft long and the city blocks aren't uniform length so 2 has to suffice, but frequent service will help all of that.