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Zuby EDUCATES Ben Shapiro On Rap Music
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2023
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Ben: "Rap only fulfills rhythm, not melody and harmony"
Bone Thugs-N-Harmony: 👀🤨
That’s the thing though, it depends on who you’re listening to.
which means he's correct because you named a prehistoric rap group.. now try naming a modern rapper that is popular worldwide selling top 5 on the billboards.. and please dont say drake
@@mentalprograming5365Juice world. He’s dead though.
@@mentalprograming5365 Fetty Wapp, Tory Lanes, Bryson Tiller, Kendrick Lamar, Tyler The Creator, E-40, Warren G, Anderson Paak, Childish Gambino, JID, and the list goes on
@@mentalprograming5365 😂 L
Creating phrases using metaphors and rhyming multiple syllables while using descriptive words to paint a picture all while keeping time on a high tempo beat is an art form that most people can't even comprehend. Poetry that even those that considered themselves genius miss. Real hip hop is not just music but a movement!
Thank you
Most people can't even rap along to the song let alone write one and record one
It’s definitely more if a movement than actual music, yes. Lol. Grafted, I like some of it but some people treat it as if it was some higher art form and it’s simply not. Again, I like some of it…not shitting on it completely but it’s also not awe inspiring art either.
Most people can’t ride a unicycle either but who gives a shit. I want to hear music! Not computer beats and bad poetry. I didn’t mean fur that to sound harsh it just came out that way lol
@@Donjasoni name some artist you have listened too you where impressed by. I would love to see how deep you have got into hip-hop and all it's sub genres
Ben is taking complexity for quality. An a cappella song can be more touching and meaningful than an entire orchestra. Maybe a small drawing can be hold closer to your heart than a giant painting. Ben has the idea that art can be evaluated in objective terms, when art is what helps connection with oneself emotions.
Sometimes simpler things are more powerful.
There could be an argument that more often than not, simpler is more powerful. Also agreed with everything else you said!
Acapella*
And that's true it can not be evaluated in a objective sense, and, just like an objective thing like the sun can not be evaluated by a subjective sense, thank you for noticing this, lmfao, the most intelligent, and, intellectual comments are al ways the most under rated, finally some one who knows what they are talking about in this field, have a good day, sir, may god bless, you, you, lmfao,,,,,. ,,,,,.
Definitely snobbery on Shapiro's part. Each succeeding era of "classical" music was often seen as a degradation of that which preceded it.
he just doesnt identify with it. im not sure but i doubt he went to public schools like most of us where our friends would share tapes and cds. i know we would make a copy of anything we had if you gave us a blank tape to put it on.
Ben’s argument is like saying “poetry is not good literature. It is not as long as books and lacks proper punctuation”
Its such a shallow, simpleton point of view from someone who claims to be this Art loving connoisseur that was raised by a professional musician and classical music.. the guy is basically elitist.
Stop the name calling. Because he has a different perspective as you doesn't make him a elitist. He simply has an opinion and that's all. I disagree with him though but I don't think he is anything else other than just another person I disagree with in some of the topics discussed. I don't like rap music of today because there's nothing there. They talk rubbish. 90s and early 2000s rap music is where my likeness of rap music ends.
@@joem551 It's not really name calling if it's accurate. If you gatekeep what is "real music" by defining it along western classical traditions, which are extremely rigorous and academic (to their credit sure), that is elitist. And for Ben it's beyond a difference in taste, in which case he could just say "I don't like rap" which is fine. I also prefer classical music to rap in general but it's ludicrous to bar rap from being considered music at all and basically imply it inherently does not have artistic merit, is low brow, and shouldn't be taken seriously. That's just being lazy (there is some incredible rap out there) and talking out of your ass, not to mention racist. He even says Jazz is a downgrade from classical. JAZZ! Which is as complex and layered as anything classical music has produced, and builds upon the classical tradition in its music theory. What else could justify him saying jazz is lower brow than just seeing black art as below him
@@justinjaeger1554o you think modern art is comparable to renaissance art? Is someone drawing a red square with a black circle, on the same level as Michelangelo’s David?
This is the point: something that is to be admired has to achieved with hard work, talent, and skill. If everyone can do it easily, it’s not worth appreciating.
@@mzbarsk I don't think it's productive to compare two separate things. There isn't much in common between rap and classical music sure. But we don't look at art that way, we simply admire the best of each type. And the best rappers certainly do achieve what they do through hard work, talent, and skill
I love the fact that they are having a conversation without arguments and over talking each other. We need more of this
Th ate what happens when two intelligent people communicate and care about understanding and not winning in a conversation
Here here
This is what happens when men talk.
Put a woman in the conversation and see what happens.
I think it speaks less about them having a civil conversation and more about us who view content that have arguments and talking over one another with titles of "owned, demolished, destroyed, slammed" in all caps. I thank my college professor for helping me view economics in a more right leaning way, but I also understand the need the need of helping the very poor.
I mean they subscribe to the same ideology so
He’s likely referring to the garbage that major labels pumps out. If he really did the knowledge, real rap has integrity and was born out of necessity. He should watch Wild Style and Rhyme & Reason. Those are two great films that cover Hiphop. Listen to Gang Starr, Rakim, Whodini, Big Daddy Kane, Immortal Technique……
All rapers are just closet homosexuality.
Yeah, I like old school rap. I am sorry but the current stuff is trash, and it denigrates our culture. JMO.
There is lots of stuff being released today that is REALLY good too, just not as popular sadly. Hopsin, Tech n9ne, etc
Let’s add Juggknauts, The Artifacts, Aesop Rock, Atmosphere, Brand Nubian, Cannibal Ox, Jurassic 5, Freestyle Fellowship, BusDriver, Pigeon John, Abstract Rude, Jeru Tha Damager, and even newer generation hip hop like JID, J. Cole, Joey BadAzz.
@@christopherzucchero4447 yeah the list goes deep, in any era.
Mad respect seeing 2 people with different perspectives actually speak and respect each other.
Yeah , imagine if right wingers are willing to do this more instead of being triggered and crying all the time
@@Tchado1000 To be fair I see it on both sides. Like you can't even question the trans community without being labeled as a "bigot", while most trans people are actually pretty chill for instance.
we just don't want trans people to compete in women's sports
Like trump said he likes uneducated people... stop your propaganda
Take away the cameras and have this be an impromptu convo on the street... how long before Broadway-loving Benny is on the phone dialing 911 over the aggressive black man who is likely drugs and, he's not sure, but thinks he had multiple weapons
I think Zuby did a great job of explaining the negative messaging by bringing up the fact that recording companies, and the "people in power" in the industry push out the negative message vs. the positive messages.
🎯
The writer wrote the song
The musician created the beat
The artist sang the song
The producer promoted the song
The audience listens
arent all of them pushing the negative messaging ?
@@curious9513social engineering via gatekeeping and propaganda. Study the likes of Edward Bernays and you see the invisible hands that guide society
Record company executives literally invested in private prisons
@@curious9513ecord companies are the ones that decide which artists to sign and promote. They are the ones controlling which ones get the largest marketing budgets, which determines what you’re more likely to hear if you’re not seeking out specific artists. Examples of record companies supporting positive artists and independent positive artists becoming popular in main stream music are very rare. Surely you’re not dumb enough to need someone to explain this to you.
I’m a band director, and I’ve listened to Ben for a long time. I understand what he says about rap not having melody or harmony and being more about rhythm. I think the problem with it is that we’re using a means of analyzing baroque and classical era european music to define what is considered music at all. So I think that Ben is really just saying that most Rap songs aren’t good Classical songs. Which is entirely valid 😂
You're right. I hate to use lib terms but he brings a very euro centric bias to deciding what is and isn't music. Be great if he realized it. Maybe after thus discussion that will happen.
If Michael Knowles can get on the rap train, there is hope for Ben
You mean the degerate rap the jew created and made the black people "sing"?
Go watch that defjam documentary.
Ben is wrong and so are you. It does not take all elements of a specific expression of music for it to be music. An orchestra plays music, but a lone trumpeteer playing a solo without accompanyment also plays music. And the rapper IS melodic. The rapper IS in tune. You are both merely in need of an education...a cultural education.
That logic still goes out the window when you bring up coolio, Kanye, or lil wayne. Those guys embody harmony
@B A He's paid to have this opinion.
Melody and harmony in rap are in wordplay. Bone Thugs in Harmony is a perfect example. Even rappers like Naz do the same turning words into notes and how they rhyme. This is how two rappers can flow on the same beat yet make the song feel totally different
Yeah I’m not understanding that even Busta Rhymes had melody t
Island boys
It's NAS...not naz. Lord.
Yeah its called flow
Naz...?!😬🍾
Ironically Bens natural speaking cadence could lend itself to rap 😂
Lmao.. was wondering if I was the only one thinking that
Haha word up! Spot on
He's got a remix of wap. Pretty catchy but not a fan of the message.
Please no. ben talks fast but almost mechanically and his pitch is like his balls have yet to drop 😂😂 he'd sound horrible on a rap song.
What A Great Point!!! A few beat lessons and I could totally see/hear it! Still nasel like but producer can fix that! Lol ❤❤❤❤
This is amazing. Being honest about dislike of a genre, and admitting lack of understanding and then seeking to learn, even if it doesn't change Ben's opinion, at least he took home something new.
This is how we used to behave, we didn't try to throw everyone who disagreed under the bus filled with terms like "racist", "misogynist", "hate" and so on.
How do you know Ben was willing to learn if he didn't actually demonstrate that he's learned anything?
Ben is not willing to learn. He's willing to talk. Because that is his job. His job is talking.
I started out singing at a very young age. But I started writing raps first before writing singing songs. I can tell you first hand that writing a a good rap song is definitely an advanced form of song writing.
I’m an obsessive heavy metal music fan/aspiring musician - and rap is so similar.
Like, the band Whitechapel - the lead singer, Phil Bozeman, loves southern rap; and you can hear it, in his lyrics.
For example, their song, ‘Bloodsoaked Symphony.’
The opening lyrics are quite obviously rap influenced.
Not to mention freestyling
That's exactly the point though, there is no such thing as a good rap song.
@@davidantonacci9525 only to musical snobs. Musical snobbery is very unbecoming. It's ugly. Rap is the biggest selling form of music. House music often doesn't even have lyrics, but it's still music. And there are good house music songs.
@@XOChristianaNicole metal used to sound like noise to me. Luckily I wasn't a judgemental snob, so I listened to the music my school friends were listening to and found I didn't like Metallica that much but I loved Nirvana. From Lithium to heart shaped box. I just found them very cool and full of rhythm and energy.
Explaining this to Ben Shapiro is like what a bird would feel trying to explain what its like to fly, to a fish.
Flying fish exist
@@katanabluejay Yep they sure do
I'll bet my house he's definitely smarter then you lol 😅
Ohhhh. Good one guys. You all got me with your comments. I am now defeated. And "flying fish" do not "fly" the way a bird does. Lets not use some 1/100,000,000 anomaly of a fish species where they have abnormally shaped fins and glide a little distance then plunge back into the water and call that anywhere remotely the same as a bird, with wings, that flys. I bet you guys believe men are women and can give birth as well. I pray for nuclear destruction.
@@katanabluejay WAF (Wet Ass Fishy)
Imagine someone who states they hate rap music sitting down with someone who performs rap music and they have an intelligent and meaningful conversation about the topic. The world needs more of this. Well done gentlemen
An important element in music that Ben misses is timbre. It's important even in classical music, and it's obvious if you think it through. An orchestra can play a piece with the same line on violins, then repeated on trumpets. Same melody, different timbre... and it adds to the richness of the music to have that interplay
Timbre is very important in a lot of hip hop. Producers search for the perfect snare, layer different sounds, spend hours tweaking and layering synthesisers.
Once I tried to make a song using only three notes. It sounds kind of silly, but it's a valuable exercise. If you can make a song engaging with three notes, you're probably doing something interesting.
And yes, lyrics are a part of music too, for the sounds and for the meaning behind them. The voice is the oldest instrument in the world, so it makes sense for us to play to its unique qualities.
well that would still include the three basic elements just a different way, but music isnt something you can set scientifically .its subjective if you think a dripping faucet is music then thats your music. that is one of his problems is he needs definitions and a set of rules to follow and thats not what music is about
@@chrhadden Couldn't disagree more. Music absolutely needs to conform to certain rules in order to be music. Otherwise, it is called "sounds" or "noise". The sound of a dripping faucet is a sound. That sound can be incorporated into a musical piece, but it is not music in itself.
@@artugert sometimes I can't find the words to explain what I'm trying to say
@@chrhaddenWhile @artugert is correct about their being rules and conformity to music, there will always be polyrhythm and microtones.
According to Ben's dads definition of music. A beat without vocals is music (i.e. instrumental). As soon as someone raps on top of that beat...its no longer music. 😂
I noticed that too lol
No because a beat is a measurement of time, you're using the word incorrectly.
@@symbiote1982pk “(i.e. instrumental)”
Sorry Ben but Jazz is not a degradation of classical music. It's an extension. Wow did anybody catch that diss!
That was an ignorant comment he made. But it is not an extension of classical music either. It is a unique African American art form that happens to utilize European instrumentation but completely separate from classical. It’s roots are in blues and march.
Jazz is ABSOLUTLEY not an extension of classical music, its its own unique artform, created by black americans. You can't degrade something you have no relationship to.
The irony is all Jazz greats were classically trained. In fact Jazz is far more technical than classical music. All Jazz musicians can play classical music but not all classical musician can play Jazz because it's too technical and improvisational.
Its obvious rap music has helped lead to the demize of the black community.
Rap music is a F'ing plague, the day the black community turns away from it, that's the day you'll see change
It wasn’t really a diss though because he said he listens to jazz. He just thinks it’s not as complex as classical. Idk anything about the technical aspects of music but as an enjoyer of listening to it, I love both genres equally.
Problem is Ben doesn't consider rap music. If he can sit there with a musical background and say all of rap doesn't have melody and harmony he's delusional
He seems to have a very rigid belief on what music should be, something that I find is quite common with classical music enthusiasts. Imo in hip-hop, the rapper is using his voice in a more free-form way that doesn't follow the rigid lines of classical melody where perfect musical notes (which are basically certain frequencies of sound that have been standardized) are the only valid basis for melody. By using a more flexible form of melody that is more similar to speaking, hip-hop artists create their own melodies and rhythms which have a unique musicality that is not found in most genres. I can understand why he doesn't enjoy rap, but his stance that rap isn't music (if he's actually seriously saying it) is ignorant and gatekeeping what music can be.
His views on lyricism seem to be similar with what he briefly said about Lin Manuel Miranda not using perfect rhymes. Looking at the long history of (English) poetry in general, the use of slant-rhymes that don't have identical sounds has been around for hundreds of years, and used by many poets and songwriters who are highly regarded. So his knowledge on the topic is probably very limited.
Ben seems to apply his "facts don't care about your feelings" mantra to many topics like socio-politics and economics which is reasonable and admirable. But it cannot be applied in the same way to art and music where feelings are paramount.
Actually he has a fair point that I can understand where he's coming from, now a days you can't say that with trap music being the main thing, maybe with some different artist sure, but most rapper don't sing and he even proves Ben's point while talking, he just appreciates all music where as Ben doesn't.
@@Sakosaga Ben's point is basically that rap isn't music because it doesn't follow a classical structure. His point is trash lol
@@lloyda6873 but if you look at other genres like, rock, Country, metal, it does follow those things. I'm not agreeing with him because it's music I understand his point and it's a fair point because it doesn't follow the structure of almost every other genre of music that exists.
Alot of people don't consider rap music. Ben is allowed to have a viewpoint without being called delusional
I was very engaged in this conversation, and I was eager to hear what each man had to say. I’m thankful that neither man interrupted the other, and allowed each talking point to be established and explained. This was a really good conversation.
I was thinking the same thing.
There's alot of beautiful hip hop songs that use classical instruments in their own music. You add amazing rhyme patterns, deep lyrics, and the Similies and Metaphors really make you understand and feel the music even more. You go through a story, a journey inside you're own mind combining beautiful production and beautiful lyrics.
The thong song.
Hood niggas with golden chains song number 42069
All nursery rhymes today
@@caralho5237racist 🤡
Zuby + Daily Wire collaboration is the true leadership our country needs to heal. Brave individuals willing to speak the truth.
Jazz can never be a degradation of classical music. Jazz musicians have to KNOW harmony like someone who learned a 2nd language. Some classical musicians at best understand the theory (grammar) of harmony. Classical musicians memorize, and can’t improvise, or improvise poorly.
Also, some jazz musicians excel technically. Try listen to Bach played by Keith Jarrett.
It takes years for people to be able to jump on the mic and freestyle, at the highest level. It's odd that people still have these views when there's 40 years of interviews with rappers about the art form and the industry. He could easily research this, especially in this day and age with CZcams, google and books.
It’s the hesitance to educate themselves about this black art form which is why people then call them racist. All these things they say about rap aren’t true but then they get mad when people question why they have these beliefs about this particular black art form.
It's called racism. Of all the forms of music we made. Hip hop is unapologetically black. It's straight from the soul/struggle/heart of black Americans. Which also resonates with the rest of the diaspora, naturally. We gatekeeped the culture, unlike everything else we created. Although this has loosened up in the last 10 years. You still have to really be of the culture/judged by the culture to get respect. That ain't easy to do. Especially for whyte people. They absolutely hate thus fact lol. Anytime they can't take control or run something. they hate it and want to destroy it. If they can't have it, mo one can! Look ar country music. They've literally took it over and claimed it as theirs lol. When Hootie and the blowfish came out, boy they were mad. Lil Nas x old Town road had them piping mad. Talking about black people can't make country music. They've completely forgotten that they took it from us. Like hip hop, they used to hate country music and jazz lol. As soon as they started doing it, it's OK. Whyte people have this weird love hate obsession with us.
@@THIZZAVELI You're projecting your own racial bias and treating that as factual. For example, Jews already control hip-hop. And they were involved/influencers from the start. So unless you don't consider Jewish people like Shapiro as white, they were always involved.
It's not necessarily racism to dislike rap music. Even some black people don't like hip-hop. After all, there is a lot wrong with what most hip-hop/rap music promotes. Also, if one is inclined towards classical music and jazz, it's easy to see how they'd have trouble accepting hip-hop as something similar. Most hip-hop records get their sound from sampling rather than creating original music. That's a turn-off to some people.
And there is also a cultural element, where people are inclined to like things from their cultures. For example, classical music was invented by Europeans, so it makes sense that some Europeans would be inclined to this sort of music. So it's not necessarily racism. After all, most Europeans love jazz, which mixes musical elements from both Africans and Europeans. So how can they praise black jazz musicians and be considered racist because they don't like hip-hop?
For me personally, I used to love hip-hop as a kid. But I couldn't embrace it as I got older because of the messages. I still find some conscious rap worthwhile, but mainstream rap promotes an ideology I can't accept.
@D E dude stop it, I'm not projecting anything. I have nothing to project. I'm simply replaying to ignorance and the manipulation of history. With TRUTH. Also, jazz was created by black Americans in the south. Not white people!! Whites used to hate jazz. There was no white j3wz in the hoods of New York break dancing, locking, spray painting, scratching, parties in the park, and in ciphers lol. You clearly don't know the origin of hip hop. It started in the streets of black neighborhoods. It was really segregated back then. The white j3wz came in after hip hop became marketable and popular. Literally everything black Americans created was demonized by EVERYONE . Until it caught on and then people start to participate, love it, and eventually take it over. Then we move on to something else. Over time, other folks will claim it as their own or act like they had a hand in creating it. Your post is exactly the result of what I just described lol. You in here trying to change history. Like the latinos and Caribbeans are trying to do with hip hop now.. But like I said. Unlike jazz, funk, disco, country, the blues, and rock and roll. We heavily gate keeped hip hop until the last 10 years or so. Hip hop is the most versatile unique genre of music. It has several forms. Agressive/street/gangsta/hard core, conscious, dance/party, house, acid/horror core, alternative, back pack, and ignorant/x rated lol.
As for ignorant hip hop being played all the time(aka mainstream). That's the white j3wz fault. Ben shiperos folks. They prop up the dumbest, no talent having people. Manipulate the system and force this crap on us. Like they do in pop music. Ben Literally got all his weak points shut down. The dude in this video broke everything down very well. Ben probably thinks like you. He thinks jazz is not an original black American creation. Just like how whites took over rock and roll and country. Anytime somebody black makes that music, they get treated like an outsider and racism starts. Both of these genres has violence and ignorance within them. Both of which used to also be demonized "kneegrow music". Out of all the genres black Americans created. HIP HOP IS UNAPOLOGETICALLY "BLACK". You can't remix it or bend it like everything else. Hip hop has a very distinct swagger and bravado to it. It's deeply tied onto black American culture. You have to literally be of the culture to get respect and be recognized. Ben is really disingenuous. That's why it's racist. As a black American, we're used to all the sneak disses. We can easily spot them.
Smh at you and Ben's goofy azz zeroing in on one sub group of hip hop. At least be informed when speaking on stuff. Don't be a grifter like Ben. Ben has changed since the far right started giving him checks. He used to be pretty reasonable and balanced smh. Ben clearly has no life experience lol. Let's keep it real. He's also kinda a nerdy weirdo too. Hip hop is too cool for Ben lol. Ben just needs to stick to nerd stuff and simple politics like he used to.
@@THIZZAVELIThere ain't any damn "culture" with rap other than what is synthetically injected into black people and Americans in general by the masses, apart of a massive psyop. Black people had a massive influence on pretty much all American music, but it still all comes from classical instruments and orchestras from Europe point blank. All new ideas stem from older ideas, to act like led zeppelin wasn't unique because they're white is retarded. Black people on average tend to be very judgemental, close minded, and racist compared to other demographics. Not everyone is going to like rap, doesn't make them racist just because you assumed that. I don't agree with ben who sounds like a snob. B I think most rap now is straight trash and people listen to it just because it's the socially acceptable thing to do. Still sounds like ass to me. You can think country sucks all you want, perfectly okay.
Back in my day this type of interaction was called a discussion. Two parties would sit down and try to understand each other’s points of view and then look for common ground.
Eggs were .99 dozen.
I would to take the bus over to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. I’d always wear an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time.
Back in your day? Damn you’re like probably 30 years old…😂
@@cohenyoel83 try again whipper-snapper.
@Alex T a man of culture.
The kaiser stole all of our dickedies.
@@mouseandthemule Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel. And in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ‘em. ‘Give me five bees for a quarter,’ you’d say.
I'm eclectic when it comes to music. I love music.
What a calm and peaceful conversation this was. Very refreshing.
I’m glad he explained to Ben that there is levels. Anyone can rap but anyone can learn an instrument or earn to sign. How good you are is the thought and time you put in which applies to anything. I thought singing was hard until it was explained and most things aren’t difficult after repetition. The current industry designed music is garbage but the skill sets developed by the right people is where you can tell the difference and what it takes for REAL MUSIC
i doubt i could play the drums with any amount of practice.i get your point though
I think some people also just throw the baby out with the bath water. We can all admit that some of the mainstream rap is kind of trash. You cant just say that the entire rap genre is trash, it has decades of history.
To say rap has no melody, when melodic rap has been at an all time high for the past couple years is insane.
White people live with they’re head in the sand when it come to other peoples cultures/music or foods
Yup. Drake. Travis. Nicki. Doja. Juice. Xxx. And many more. Ben just doesn’t listen to rap. He’s probably basing his opinion on rap he grew up with and WAP lol
@@eeski7517 he's a 40 year old man that listens to classical music. I bet he thinks Cardi B is the face of Hip Hop 💀💀
Ben holding an L for this one.
Can't figure out why Z didn't correct him. Of course there's music in rap THATS WHAT BEATS ARE. Shapiro must think Licence to Ill = some guys talking over a Casio.
I've been writing poetry for 14 years! Around 7 years ago, I rapped for the first time. It was hilariously bad! But I stuck to it, and now I'm always the best rapper at all the parties and local venues. It takes so much practice and work for no reward before you become a good rapper. Let alone a great one.
You're an actor. It doesn't take practice - either you have it or you don't.
@@paradoxikalparalysis You're a fool. There's always improvement to be made. You need some degree of talent and determination to improve. No matter how hard we try, we'll never be the best. But it's worth striving for.
@@ekayn1606 Your problem is that you don't know what a real rapper is. Like I said, you're an actor - you're approximating a natural talent using training and calculations. Real rap is a given, it's expressing what's within. Either you're good or you're not. It's the difference between The Blues & Hard Rock. The Blues are a living biome and Hard Rock is soulless math. What you do may resonate with someone intellectually but YOU WILL NEVER MOVE A SOUL. You know this yourself because you say "we'll never be the best" whereas I know I have been the best at least 3 times in my life - based on how active and in the zone I've been.
To add, you say you've been writing poetry for 14 years. If you don't understand what William Blake is you'll never know what real rap is.
@paradoxikalparalysis completely disagree... you're not going to start rapping at 10 years old and at 30 you're going to rap the exact same way at the exact same level. If you do, you're in the wrong business
that was wholesome. I love it when people with opposing views on a subject can sit down, and really talk and listen to eachother. I totally understand where Ben is coming from. I know a few black people that do not like rap. Totally not racist. I love how Zuby explained the art form and intentions behind Rap Music without bashing any artists. Even if I do not agree with Ben on every subject, I'll admit these are two very intelligent men.
James Brown used to tell his band members that whatever instrument they were holding, it's a drum in his band....a trumpet is a drum...guitar is a drum...he thought about music differently and as a result Funk was born as a genre...which eventually led to hip hop.
Really great and humble explanation about hip hop and rap MUSIC. Obviously Ben hasn't listened to a great variety of rap songs. They are definitely melodic.
I will say Rap is the only genre of music that maximizes vocabulary
Although that is a stat no other genre has, it also means nothing cause 99 percent of rap is straight dookie. But I guess rap can hold that Guinness world record
@@gimmeahellyeahH cool story
@@Jaronekv here’s your prize for maximized vocabulary 🏆 😂😂😂
Zuby and Ben, having a well articulated conversation with respect towards each other and towards the subject matter. This is healthy, and will do a better job of creating understanding between people, than what is normally shown on the news or social media.
Back in the 90’s the industry was actually not paying rappers properly because of the rules that Ben stated. After this we started seeing more harmony and melody within hip hop. If youre a fan then you know that a lot of MC’s used to hate and bash rappers that did this.
This was one hell of a conversation. Well done 👏🏽
Growing up in the hood and becoming a professional musician I can say that rap music is not even music. It’s poetry to a beat. You don’t have to be a musician to be a rapper
We keep forgetting one key player in hip hop music: the producer. Hip hop is more than just the rappers... the people that make the beats are true musicians and musical historians. Creating the right beats is definitely an art form. My husband is a rapper and a producer and I am a classically trained violinist so I really hate this argument. This 50 year old argument that hip hop is not real music, but it shows no signs of slowing down or stopping. It is a world wide half century long debate. It is a real art form that deserves respect... even if the newer rappers need a little more coaching. Real hip hop will prevail
@@oneinamillion8769 thank you. This “real music” debate is just, and I truly hate to say this, white supremest thinking. It’s not racist, but structural. By putting a certain music at the top, European classical, and using its definition of what music is, leaves out any other groups definition of music. Thereby placing other musics in false hierarchical structures of “good” or “real” or “worthy”. Duke Ellington said that there are two types of music: good and bad. I’ll humbly say that good and bad are subjective. If someone doesn’t like a certain type of music, that’s their prerogative, but what someone likes isn’t better, or shouldn’t be judged as real or not based off of one culture’s definition of music. Just my opinion.
@@oneinamillion8769 not to mention that there are tons of producers who play multiple instruments so they have an ear for the combinations that make for catchy tunes and tasteful sounds. Most rap artists who are dedicated to their craft are heavily involved in this process.
@@AlisonCrockett That's a good argument. You make an excellent point about how the context of the discussion is inherently biased because everything is compared to European standards. That happens with many things without being intentionally racist (i.e., it's not actually about race but cultural values). I don't think these things can ever be fully resolved, however. All cultures tend to promote themselves over others. The real challenge in America is blending all these cultures - it creates constant conflict.
I used to love hip-hop as a kid, but I'm turned off from most of it today because of the negative messaging. But I still like the beats/sound and can see how it takes incredible skill/talent to produce them successfully.
Been waiting for years for some1 who could properly express sit and talk to ben about rap...and much respect to Ben for having this conversion
This was well executed. 2 different views with some agreements. I enjoyed hearing them both talk.
I know this is old, but a lot of hip hop artist are writing what they know. The places they come from, what they see. As a writer one of the most common advice handed down is write what you know, so these artist write what they know. If you listen to certain artist, if they last long enough, they will evolve.
Everytime
If you can keep up with the lyrics of rap and understand them you'll see just how poetic rap is. Some of my favourite quotes I have engrained in my brain are from my the lyrics of the rap
There are rappers tackling positive messages, introspection, stories, promoting values. But unfortunately the music industry does not push it. You cannot blame the music as a whole because of a few popular acts that happen to be pushed into the mainstream.
if you look hard enough, you will find artists in hip hop who have put the same level of time and passion into the craft as any classical composer. they are few and far between, but they will stand the test of time. it is always worth looking past the medium when humans commit themselves to a craft, doesn't matter if you enjoy the medium or not, when you see or hear gold, it resonates.
Nasty NAS
Kanye west
Dax with a 30 min long single song which has no hooks and no repetition and moves through various schemes and flows. (Has a video to go with… according to Dax in an interview, both the vocal recording and video were done in a single take. Adlibs would obviously be done after on vocals).
Andy Mineo - “Jackson Pollock” taking the concept of a Jackson Pollock abstract painting and converting that into every aspect of the song.
Lupe Fiasco - Drogas Wave… a 100 min full conceptual album which is a continuous story … a book in music form.
Shai Linne - Lyrical Theology parts 1 (theology) & part 2 (doxology). Breaking down seriously complex theological concepts and discussions in a musical/lyrical way that can be ingested by most anyone…. College courses in rap form.
I mean… come on, who can actually do this stuff?!?! That takes some serious time, effort and ability.
@@Morienvys no
@@krishendo9433 Whattt???
Really refreshing to see two poeple we different ideas have a conversation and still have respect for one another
agreed friend... as it should be.
This..
This is brilliantly articulated! In addition to what has already been mentioned about supply and demand, I also think that a large part of what Ben and Zuby discussed was on the epitome of what great music can be. I don't think that is a prerequisite to a song being successful/well-received.
As great as melody, rhythm, etc. are, their strategic subtraction can be done in an artful way that sticks too.
I really appreciate seeing two wise minds have a normal, informational, enjoyable conversation, more of this is needed.
This is one of my favorite conversations. Love ya BigZuby, Love ya BigShap!
Lil Ben X
Two gentlemen.
Why they gotta be big? SUS
@@damianpharaoh161 big tings agwan when de man dem speak.
@@BasedGNellz Rasclat big dem up bloodclot bwoy dem tings be tingin yerrrmeh?
Great talk. Great guest. Great host. Need more of anything at this level.
Hip Hop is a artform and it is definetly music. I am a musician and i focus mostly on Jazz, but i listen to and get ispired by many different styles of music including Rap which, in the 90's and early 2000 has been an important part of my life. Ben don't get it and so do many other, but that do not make it any less music.
Respect for not making a clickbait title like "Destroys" relating to this argument, humble and intelligent i'll subscribe.
Zuby is right when he says that calling everyone racist dilutes it. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.
The best way to take power away from something is to dilute it.
I'm an absolute simpleton when it comes to the technical aspects of music, but I would watch/listen to an ongoing podcast with Zuby and Shapiro discussing music
The most intelligent defense and explanation of rap ever! He said what i would want to say to ben God bless Him
Nice you guys just had a conversation and listened to each others points and didnt dismiss everything. ❤❤❤
This guy is highly persuasive. He agrees then politely disagrees
80 90s dancehall/Reggae is a perfect example of story telling. Lyrically funny and life experiences the artist went through. Then add the riddim ontop of that fire!!
🤙🏿 Str8
Great interview, well explained and supported. I don't know much, even a little about Zuby but It seem to me like a Soul II Soul philosophy kind of rapper. Admirable cult man.
This is the conversation I've wanted to have with Ben since I first heard him express his views on rap. I also think he misses the mark in describing jazz as a 'degradation' of classical music; it is undeniably inluenced by classical music but for obvious reasons also has DNA from other traditions which predate classical music so in my mind is an intricate and inventive fusion of very different rhythmic and melodic sensibilities. Overall I'm glad this conversation was conducted with respect and courtesy.
I also like to think of rapping like a guitar solo. Guitarists understand their options when their ability improves over time. When you watch Eddie Van Halen play the guitar you see a person who is following certain rules and breaking others in an attempt to push what the listener would normally expect, into a world of surprise and intrigue. A rapper is praised for their ability not only to write good lyrics but also to think of them quickly. So it becomes a combination of following certain rules and breaking others, which is what you see when a rapper is pressed to free-style. But also this is a part of their writing process, they follow the flow and their minds are a buzz with all kinds of emotions and thoughts that they want to mesh with the beat. So in a lot of ways, this is why I think Rap is a completely legitimate skill when it's done to this level at least.
How would you KNOW if they screwed up the words...??? LOL..LOL.. Anybody can rap, spew random words, can you spew those EXACT same words over and over and over.. THAT'S what a song is.. NOPE..
@Pete Paradis What on earth are you talking about? Guitarists do a thing called riffing... ever heard of it? Where a guitar solo isn't note for note identical in any way... so my comparison is still the same. And no, not anyone can rap, that's just an opinion based on ignorant garbage.
@@IntrepidOnce I’m right and you’re wrong though
@@peteparadis1619 ok
@@peteparadis1619 it all goes back to the old jazz saying, there are no wrong chords. no matter how off putting or dissonant something may be it can work if supported properly. you're 100% wrong
The elements of hip hop is so varied that it is impossible for ben to dislike all of it. And i have been a classical music lover since i was 8 and hip hop fan since the Chronic, which camr out when I was 12
What if no matter how hard you try, you just don't find the spoken delivery pleasant to listen to?
No different from ones most hated instrument being front and center, constantly celebrated while it's nails down a chalkboard for you.
@@PjRjHj im talking about the music. not the rap lyrics. there are too many and too varied. I've heard a few rap songs with classical guitar in them! they range all over
@@PjRjHj Try and listen to MF DOOM - Operation Doomsday. That is a form of hiphop you never heard and probelly will appreciate.
@@rosgill6 I'm not talking about the lyrics, I'm talking about the timbre of the rapping.
Most arrangements being the rapping is god awful reductive sequencing or piggybacking off sample that's gone well beyond fair use
Sure there's exceptions like Meshell Ndegocello or D'Angelo's work with Pino Palladino, but the compositions would have been great without the rapping on top.
@@AgentSickOrange I appreciate your enthusiasm, what I was trying to convey (yet appeared to fail to do) is that myself and many people hear vocals as another instrument. Some voices you like, some you don't. Then just like an instrument, there are techniques you just don't like. Many people don't want to listen to slap bass, or progressive guitar, or piano accordion front and center.
Tell a person you don't like yodeling, I doubt you're gonna get many people coming up and telling you the backing arrangement is great, or try this guy, his yodeling is better.
Fans of hip hop seem not to grasp that many people just don't think it sounds good, any of it. Ben is correct that it's extremely limited in melody and harmony, and I'd add the majority of it isn't rhythmically interesting either, at least not to my bass playing ears.
Which leaves only the lyrical content, which evidently appeals to many. Zuby mentions the lyrical quantity, but that says nothing of the quality.
Rap music to me is based on when you grew up and if the stories matched your living situation but also the appreciation for other people's experiences. It is literally specific to the times because I listened to more underground rappers compared to mainstream so my perception was different.
Great Interview!!!
It's a shame he didn't really touch on sampling. Sampling pulls from music that heavily utilizes melody and harmony, sampling from soul, jazz, classical, opera, country, rock, even commercials, jingles, western.... Hell, even Enya's Boadicea was sampled in Hip Hop several times.
The real Hip-Hop isn't on the Charts. I agree.
I love seeing civilized discussions with people who disagree with each other.
Part of the confusion might be terminology. Outside of hip hop "the beat" usually refers to drums only, but in hip hop "the beat" actually refers to the entire backing tracks/song which is undoubtably musical.
Zuby, you’re a role model
Translate to English:
'Teeth, you're a role model.'
😅😅
Ooh interesting…
In what language does Zuby mean teeth?
@@Nous520 you don't wanna know what his name means in arabic. I don't know what language "teeth" comes from though...
@the_northface it means my penis!
@@Nous520 Ukrainian I think Russian to and other Slavic languages
As someone who grew up on rap, I've always said, you really can't blame someone for disliking it especially if they come from a background of different music. Matter a fact, I like to think rap is the hardest genre to like. If aliens came here and inquired on our different expressions of art, rap would be the last genre I'd show them. Traditionally, it was about looking past the violence and sexuality to discover the real beauty, rhymes, clever wordplay, intellectual prowess, etc. Most modern rappers didn't get that memo and have settled for constantly trying to WOW their listener similar to the way Madonna did in the 80s.
My problem with most rap is what it promotes. And then people are shocked that the culture doesn't change but gets worse. It's because your promoting the thing that is keeping you and your community on the streets and as "slaves"
@@semperpieeatordie6990 100%
Funny as all rappers ie black people listen to non rap music
I have to disagree on rap being the hardest to get into. I believe that heavy metal is a harder genre of music to get into.
Rap got changed by the people that control the outlets. Don't play Common, Mos Def,Talib,......that have messages that was hip hop back in the day. Pay amd promote the dumb down rap amd buried what real rap was amd people always follow money and started rapping the same BS way. Jesus talking about the lyrics degrading women, violence,.....and nobody ever talks about the people signing, promoting, booking them for concerts,.....when they wouldn't of ot wastue exact same lyrics except take out N....amd replace it with White's, Jewish people, LGBTQ,..... they wouldn't listen to it or sponsor them
I love Zuby. I could listen to him for hours.
Problem is Ben is looking at surface level art wanting to critique with deep thoughts. But he doesn’t seem to want to investigate the medium to find the artist that represent his taste so he generalizes. This is a very elementary thought process that is a personal problem.
If you want mainstream to stop pumping out certain music. Critique the labels that are prioritizing the songs as it’s not the artist pushing these songs. It’s the labels.
And you can’t have freedom of speech and want to stop peoples individual right to express themselves in the best way they can.
I don’t understand how people can’t appreciate all kinds of music. I guess I come from a neutral point of view to music just as a consumer. Also, my parents used to listen to all kinds of music. But I can appreciate anything from classical-rap
Love you man, you’re doing good for this world🤙🏼
".. listen to on the radio..." lol.
Well I am a classically trained musician as well, and I can tell you that Shapiro's rigid definition of music is sophomoric at best.
It is ironic that the one guy who speaks like he is constantly rapping, doesn't like rap
People listen to rap for the beats. I find it genius how rappers can make lyrics about the same 3-4 topics, spin it around differently, and make an album out of it.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Your view is limited in the fact that there are a slew of rappers that talk about a wide range of topics. The real question is are you being exposed to them?
@@BlkOMNI I am, that doesn't change the facts about this list.
Isn't that just all chart music though?
@@sencrew5293and they call that “mumble rap “
That’s why it became a genre
Catchy beat and hook
If Ben watched a couple really good breakdowns of Eminem lyrics he would be impressed. It’s pure mastery of the English language on the same level and beyond the most famed poets.
Music is one of those things you can't judge objectively because the qualities that make it enjoyable are subjective. And subject to fluctuation.
Sometimes you're in the mood to enjoy a rock ballad. Sometimes you wanna listen to 80's style John Carpenter-esque synth. Sometimes you wanna listen to early 2000s gangster nerd rap. And sometimes you wanna listen to WW2 era big band compositions. It varies not just from person-to-person but day-to-day.
There is no "best" kind of music. There's just the music you enjoy most at a given time.
"gangster nerd rap"
@Jason Bourne
I am very very very cagey about proclaiming that the content of art has a causal relationship with behavior. That road lies pearl clutching and hysteria. ALA: the 70s & 80s when people said that popular music at the time had *subliminal* messaging that caused deviance & criminality (the whole "play an ACDC record backwards to hear satanic messaging" nonsense).
I've had 50 Cent, The Beach Boys, Kean Dysso, Aerosmith & The Ink Spots all on one playlist.
There are subjective preferences of course but there is objectively good music as well. Consider classical music like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Handel, Chopin, etc. I don't know any culture that does not like these classics. Many would say the classical music influenced modern music.
@Jason Bourne The content of the music is dependent on the artist my friend. Not the musical genre.
Rap is simply an art form. The subject of that art varies from artist-artist.
Yes, there is, otherwise every musical piece would be #1 and remembered forever; instead, only some do.
The person who asserts that Mozart's Requiem is on the same level as a rap song is simply wrong. Of course, it's perfectly fine to listen to any song and enjoy different kinds of experiences, and humans get tired after listening a certain amount of times the same piece, but it's true nonetheless that some music is objectively more profound and "true" than others.
Honestly I think the characterization of rap as "music" works against recognition of rap for the art form it is... As Zuby said, the real meat of the skill in rap is the lyricism, rhythmic complexity, flow, etc. But all of these things are better characterized as skills you would find specifically in poetry. And spoken poetry is an art form as old as music itself. So when you evaluate rap in terms of poetry rather than music, it becomes a lot easier to be a fair judge of the skill involved. An in fact, many other kind of musical forms that are heavier on the lyrics tend to also be lighter on the musical complexity (Ex: Gregorian chants when they are longer, but when they are shorter, you have more melodic complexity).
I agree. Nothing more poetic than a dude rapping about how many b¡+
Would you not say music is art?
@@hennyknowsI think what they're saying is that rap is categorized as the wrong type of art in their opinion
Rap is clearly music. There’s no categorical error there. Lyricism and rhythm are aspects of rap but rap has evolved both in complexity, diversity and sophistication throughout the years such that today, the emphasis isn’t even so much on lyrics as it is harmonies/Melodies and production.
@@IvanGonzalez-kf4lp Well...the emphasis may not be as much on lyrics in terms of the content of the language, but ironically the baseline for passable complexity of rhyme structure in commercial rap has risen appreciably. Most 80s and 90s rhyme structures are actually hard for me to enjoy these days. Way too basic. Kind of tragic that greater execution has been paired with endless talk of gang banging, murder and disrespecting women. Rap collectively SOUNDS better and demonstrates more skill, but is simultaneously rotting the soul of socety.
I am 29, a conservative business owner who, as a child, competed nationally on piano. My father is also a businessman who performed on piano as a child. We both attended conservatories. I attended at a very young age. I have performed most of Chopin's works, most Rachmaninoff, a great deal of Bach, Beethoven (all of his sonatas), Prokofiev, and the like. Essentially, like any so-called "classical" pianist, my repertoire contains all of the works of the standard composers. So I once thought much like Shapiro, that rock is a degradation of skill from Jazz, which is a degradation of skill from classical. But recently, I have begun to experiment with Jazz/Fusion. I now think Shapiro's view is somewhat incorrect - but only somewhat.
*Classical Music*
If we limit our definition of the word "skill" to mean "technical mastery and facility of the scalar, thematic complexity, and rhythmic potential of an instrument or musical composition," then I think it is almost indisputable that Jazz is inferior to classical. There is no work of jazz, for example, that contains the full mixture of long form thematic development and textural diversity that one will find in works like Wagner's _Der Ring des Nibelungen._ Wagner wrote the work across nearly thirty years, and its lyrical, melodic, and thematic structure cannot be matched by even a single work of jazz, let alone anything in rock. The glory of classical music is that it requires immense intelligence (including patience to track motif) and skill to even begin to hear it properly, not to mention perform it. And the more one practices hearing and performing it, the more glory it reveals. It is endless. I have conducted this piece, studied its score, and easily heard it more than a hundred times: czcams.com/video/RjYs99atLUI/video.html. I am still enthralled by it. Mahler knew he was dying of heart disease when he wrote it. It is his death in musical form. You must listen to every phrase with patience and deep respect. His meaning will emerge before you. Try to listen inside of this work. The melodies are clear enough. Do not focus upon them. Listen to the madness inside, the churning horror that constantly haunts the melodies.
_First movement:_ He begins with a sort of heartbeat motif, except that instead of it being consistent as healthy heartbeats are, it is unstable. It is a motif of death. The death motif is soon pushed away by a musical explanation or motif of life's sweetness. But even as the sweetness of life is expressed, several fits of despair seek to cut through. The life motif, the sweetness of life, tries to come back again and again, churning against repeated assaults of fear and death, and this cheerfully despairing madness continues until the death motif cuts through with astonishing authority. Wait for it. You will not miss it. The movement ends with a recognition of life's sweetness. But the twisted horror of death is always present.
_Second Movement:_ A reflection upon simple folk songs and dances that Mahler may have heard growing up as a child. But gradually they sink into twisted bitterness and madness, returning somewhat to sanity only at the end.
_Third Movement:_ Mahler signed this movement "to my brothers in Apollo." He was long criticized as a composer who could not write counterpoint. There is pure madness of counterpoint throughout. It is a near profane display of counterpoint. I am convinced that Mahler wrote this movement to give the middle finger to his "brothers." But note how in the middle of this comedy everything suddenly stops and one hears a sweet and serious motif in the trumpet. It actually telegraphs the central motif of the final movement. It is as if Mahler suddenly remembers the drama that he is up against. He reflects, then throwing it all off he tears off into a conclusion of comedic contrapuntal madness. One can even hear him sticking out his tongue via muted French Horns.
_Fourth and Final Movement:_ Mahler is saying goodbye here. It is a shocking expression unlike anything we humans have ever produced. He struggles in fits to hang on to life as much as he can. One can hear him fighting, laboring to hang in there- to life. But gradually he accepts his fate and breathing his last he passes away.
Jazz and rock can't do anything like this. Jazz is an angel food cake compared to the Filet Mignon that is classical music. And rock is a Twinkie. They provide the hearer a lot of sugar, which causes listeners everywhere to bounce off the walls. But they have few muscle and mind-building proteins and fats. Yet, I must acknowledge that they give access to valid human expression that classical music cannot provide.
*Jazz/Fusion*
Check it out: czcams.com/video/Bv0-GDLst0Y/video.html. Jazz and Rock are both minimalistic. They are hyper-repetitive. Their themes and motifs do not develop to any significant degree. But when it comes to the performance, there is no degradation of skill here at all. Coleman here has four way independence of appendages. His arms and legs each do different things, but are united as one. Most humans cannot do this. It requires genius. Einstein would have played like this had he taken up drums. Here is more: czcams.com/video/HlQmEtXMSq0/video.html.
More genius in jazz - no degradation of skill here - at all, though the composition itself is juvenile in its development compared to most classical works: czcams.com/video/Ypd1YGW5Huw/video.html. One must keep it ever in mind, that most of this performance was created improvisationally. Peterson played it at the spur of the moment, and could not play it again note for note. Also, keep your ear on his left hand. He maintains the bass in his left hand while flying across the piano improvisationally and independently with his right. That is genius.
*Rap/Hip Hop/Whatever*
I am no fan of rap - generally. But it is a valid form of artistic expression. I learned this while riding with my father some time ago. He had seen a video about Tupac's life, and was moved by it. He played this song: czcams.com/video/Mb1ZvUDvLDY/video.html. I concluded that neither Jazz/Rock, nor Classical could capture this kind of expression as powerfully as this genre. Art should always ennoble us. But it can do this by telling us the uncomfortable truth about ourselves.
amazing 🙏🏾💯
Awwwe little Benny, such a sweet boy lol 😂
I have the utmost respect for Zuby
As a musical artist I think one thing Zuby missed in explaining. Is for example if you take Kendrick Lamar or Cole there are so many levels in terms of message, delivery, sentence structure, double entendre, timing, symbolism and even mathematical calculations in timing and placement on the album or song itself. You almost need a cipher to decode the level of complexity. I liked Lamar but had no idea or true appreciate of the skill he was exhibiting or the other levels he was running on until someone broke it down. He's like a Picasso and Salvador Dali of hiphop. It's like if there were 7 levels to what he was saying I at best caught 3 of them!
Interesting conversation. My only comment on shapiro where he said classical was more difficult than Jazz etc.. Dude. A jazz player could play classical because it's basically in square boxes. Every thing fits in predictable obvious patterns. But Jazz has as much and even more theory in it. Jazz requires you to FEEL as well as have the technical skills to ready, timing and rhythms that are unpredictable and that you can ride with improvisation. So to suggest the skill required to play classical is superior to jazz... let's just say I strongly disagree. ;)
I had a band and the keyboardist we had in the beginning was classically trained and it was cool because if we wanted to play covers it was easy for him because he was copying something. But the moment you asked him to groove or improvise he was like a deer in headlights and got stuck. He couldn't improv and jam to save his life. So what did we do? Gave him jazz albums as they had the technical aspect and concept that was familiar to him in classical but was written in such a way he could read or listen to how jazz not only broke rules but rewrote or created new ones.
Shapiro go try and play some jazz and come back and try to say with a straight face classical is more complicated! :)
His argument is the same when it comes to trans people. He isn't a good person is the bottom line.
I would like to see someone break down the levels of one actual complex verse to Ben or others discounting the artform wholesale to see the response.
yea it is wild to believe classical takes more skill. I'd say it'd take the most discipline to stay committed to such, as you said "square boxes". Where as, because Jazz and other forms are more free, leaves a lower skill floor to enter, but also provides a high skill ceiling of potential because it's not disciplined to be one structured way. Ben is definitely coming from ignorance and that's fine. Let him go hear J cole and Kendrick songs. But Ben definitely has a fair point to the generality of what the public is exposed to.
Wasn't familiar with you before Zuby, but I appreciate the way you represented black men in this video and agreed with your takes. TY sir, please keep up the excellent modelling.
This was a great discussion. Thank you.
The more I hear Zuby speak, the more attractive he gets. He’s a class act. 👌
Why are his lips so black? He must be a weed smoker
Was hard for me to pic a rapper. He is so handsome. Yummy yummy on a cracker.
@@323azteca He’s your Nigerian 🇳🇬 prince huh
@@tecumseh4095 🤤❤️🔥👀🫦🤴👸
Thank you for having a conversation instead of screaming. We need more of this. Great job to both people!!!
i do this everyday where’s my medal?
I love having these conversations w/o all the vitriol found in other spaces.
Being that he's a Jazz fan, I think there's ALOT of Hip Hop that Ben would like, A Tribe Called Quest, Digable Planets, Guru's "Jazzmatazz" album series, Gang Starr, Freestyle Fellowship - Who I remember saying that they had crazy flows because they were using their voices as instruments, like the verses were the trumpet solo, piano solo ETC, shit, even MC Eiht's "We Come Strapped" album is more G-Jazz than G-Funk
I also think he'd like alot of Wu Tang Clan if he likes melody, pretty much all of them have sung on their songs, especially ODB 😂😂
Also, did anyone notice that what Ben doesn't like about Manuel Miranda, was basically "multi syllable rhymes", which is something that is usually highly praised within Hip Hop 🤔😂😂
❤ you Zuby !!
I have never actually liked Ben until I saw him in this conversation. I love the fact that hes willing to open up and talk to just about anyone. Makes me respect the guy a hell of a lot more.
Quik’s groove. All of them. He’ll come around 😂
My music tastes are hilariously diverse. I can be listening to Mozart and Beethoven one sec....then somehow end up listening to King Von and then some Metal Band called Ministry wtf lmao
Rap stands for rythm and poetry
ok, that makes sense.
Rude Azz People
try Rhythmic Aesthetic Poetry
@@33000watts no the actual acronym "rap" stands for rythm and poetry, look it up
@@qravenp my acronym is better
I can listen to Zuby talk about almost anything. He speaks so logically and eloquently that I have to stay engaged. I don't always agree but I always keep listening. If more men were like him it would make it easier for women to submit to her man. Jah bless King!
Glad we still have people with pure souls and a lot of depth. It's sometimes seems like the only up to the 90's (that was when I had my teens and people were already starting to become different to say the genuine and authentic expression of the 60's and 70's), before social media made everyone think they're some superstar and talking absolute vacuous shit on camera, everyone too anxious and flighty. You can tell Zuby is a man of substance and still has his soul intact.
This is a good conversation with two men from two different cultures talking about hip hop music and what they like about it and what they don't like about it and being respectful. And on a side note I have a you tube channel type in Russell Mills May 22, 2017 to find me.
This is such an interesting topic with so much nuance. It branches out to so many other issues of culture and art. There's too much to get to in a CZcams comment.
I heard the mention of Oscar Peterson, that guy was a straight up genius, no exageration, virtuoso level skills technically, incredibly creative note choice, can't say anything bad about Oscar Peterson