The best insulation hands down. Not one time in the 10 years I have been spraying has a customer called and said anything negative about how the spray foam performed as an insulator. It’s always a positive result almost life changing for people. The only complaint I getand it’s constant is the price. If the codes/ R-value updated with scientific data that spray foam is in fact the best insulation there is on the market and has many other benefits outside of just an insulator that no other insulation even comes close to matching. Once the codes are changed Spray foam will be code and therefore drop the price on the material and make it more affordable for everyone. Thanks again Mike
Everything is subjective. If you were a rockwool insulator you'd thing it was the best insulation. Spray foam masks leaks in roofs. I've personally seen a few that had rotted sheathing and rafters before the leak was caught. Not everything is the best or "life changing", which is a ridiculous statement.
Best is def subjective. Dense pack fiberglass at R-23 outperforms 3 inches of foam at r-21. R-value is what's king. Basic air sealing detail is all you need to get a house tight and avoid spending money to bring in fresh air. Forced ach is the same as nat ach below 1
There were multiple tests. One example. R-21 batting outperformed r-20 cellulose even though cellulose is air tight. R-20 ellulose performed better than t-19 batting. R-23 dense pack will outperform r-21 foam. Basic air sealing is all you need. R value is king It also takes 15 years to see ROI on foam when compared to the standard batting. Not calculating fresh air intake costs. With dense pack you'll wait 8 years over the standard costs. Batting offers no ROI for new construction.
Air barriers testing is critical for the whole envelope. Zip sheeting combined with flash and batt Rockwool on 2x6 studs is current gold standard but it’s evolving. Closed cell strengthens the whole thing.
Flash and batt is a disaster in cold climates and will have moisture issues. I have spoken to multiple people already this year that had to open walls and remove it.
What about open cell on top of closed cell (2" of closed cell followed by filling cavity with open cell)? Will that lead to the same moisture problems as flash and batt?
So much information! So many points that aren't in code and how construction gets around things. Not sure anyone truely believes it's not a known issue. Crawford out 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏻♂️
Looking to build a house in AK in 25/26, zone 7 building code requirements so heavily looking at closed cell. Thank you so much for your info and continuing info as I’m supposed to have R-50 value in the ceiling now and looking at how to do that. Super excited for this series for sure.
As with anything, the devil is in the details. In this case, penetration, vapor, water, and air management are all more important than base-line R-value. The closed-cell spray can easily form a vapor barrier (very cool), but special care still needs to be taken to make sure that OSB sheathing isn't seeing any water. If a builder is just slapping some Tyvek or tar paper on it and then attaching siding or shingles directly to it then you can easily run into the problem of that OSB soaking up water over time and failing in spectacular fashion. If you're gonna seal the inside of the sheathing, it's probably a very good idea to seal the outside too with something like a peel-and-stick, fluid-applied, or something like Zip or LP's WeatherLogic to make sure the wood never sees that moisture. Also, to your point about diminishing returns going beyond 2in of spray foam, I might add that your spray foam is only as thick as your deepest penetrations allow it to be. More specifically, if somebody pops a 2in nail or screw through the sheathing and it isn't trimmed on the inside before being sprayed over with 2in of foam, then you've only got about a half inch of foam in that spot, which can lead to little snowballs forming on the inside of the foam in very cold conditions. Saw that happen on Mr-Postframe's barndominium (2in spray backed up by fiber batt) and that was gnarly. All that said, not trying to talk bad about spray foam. Just saying that the entire package has to be evaluated and implemented well for any insulation strategy to be successful over the long term. Love watching these videos, as they always get my brain thinking about second and third order considerations about any strategy I think about implementing and what to keep an eye out for when I do implement it.
Hello spray jones hoping to ask a question, we have a 1964 house with cathedral ceiling in living room in cold Calgary prairie. The inside of roof is wood tongue and groove, so plan when replacing roof is to spray foam the other side of tongue and groove. Seems like most spray foam is sprayed to backside of the roof deck. Any issues with spraying the back of the tongue and groove then putting decking over top?
Do you do anything about sealing plates, like plates to slab, between double top plates, corners, etc where your foam isn't applied, or is that up to somebody else? I know most people use a caulking sealant, I have seen others spraying a blue liquid of some sort, just wondering about your thoughts and if you do anything like that.
Spray foam can have user error on installation, that's why it's regulated more. Code prefers factory made insulation for it's uniformity and testing. It has nothing to do with trying to keep spray foam out of the code. R-values aren't the only measure for insulation value in the US, U-Factor (u-value) can also be used.
Hi Mr SJ. I have a question regarding a new structure in a country that builds entirely different than we do in NA. Is there a way I can contact you? Ty. Max
Adobe on the inside, foam on the outside, sounds great! Don't suppose you remember roughly what the inside / outside temperature delta was with those potato storage units to require 5"? Cheers!
We are about to build a Barndo (metal siding/roof with zip sheathing) house with a pit basement in North Carolina. Would you recommend doing closed cell on outside basement walls? If so, would you recommend putting an additional dimple mat on the outside of the foam as well? Do you recommend an air gap on the roof since it will be metal roofing? Want to use closed cell from the basement up to the roof.
I cannot make specific recommendations because they depend on approvals for your county / area. Watch the 4 part roof series, also in contact with ground video.
I am planning a "hot roof" or unventilated roof - reinforced with the information from Mike's videos. Review Mike's videos and you'll find what you need.
Curious to hear what you think about the SIP wall assembly using PU closed cell foam core. So, it would be zip outside, PU foam, osb inside. 4.5" wall is an R26 and nets 3.5" of foam between the sheathing. Is it a good or bad idea? Thanks
In the northeast if you have a house that has typical tyvek house wrap and you were to open the walls from the inside with the goal of swapping out glass fiber insulation for three inches of closed cell spray foam, would the house wrap be on the wrong side of the foam and create moisture problems down the road?
Im having an installer trying to tell me I need 2-3" of closed cell with 4" of open cell over it? Im considering doing it myself. There is a company that rents a sprayfoam rig and a company near by that carries the Alpha brand foam. Im pretty handy but im still worried I will not do it properly. Your videos are very helpful. Id love more info
I’m in the same boat of doing a hybrid 2” CC and 5” OC I have a extremely low roof line maybe a 3/12 and I have a metal roof over top of asphalt roof It’s elevated on purlins and and there is a ridge vent that I was gonna seal up from underneath. I’m also installing a dedicated circuit for a dehumidifier if I need one. I’m in a mountain zone 5a? I’m also using Mitsubishi mini splits on each floor. Could I just spray the 2x4 rafters with 3” of closed cell and get be fine? Won’t have access to roofline once drywall is hung.
I have a one hundred year old brick construction house with no insulation in Jersey City NJ what spray foam would be suitable for such a structure? I’m thinking about doing a full gut, removing the old asbestos and the plaster and lathe walls and ceiling’s and install 2x4 framing and new electrical and plumbing and a new Flat torch down roof. Would I be better off if I put a puck system styrofoam on the exterior as a thermal break and then had it stuccoed? Or spray foam only the basement walls and put up 2x4 and 5/8” sheet rock for fire resistant walls? I don’t really want to gut the entire house if I can get a reasonable amount of sealing and insulation performance by doing the outside rather than the inside. What’s your thinking Mike?
The tightest buildings made and tested are Passive Houses. There is very little or no blown foam in them typically. I have tested foamed homes and the cavities may be sealed, the rest of the details still have to be done. What about the thermal drift in the foam from cells breaking down over time and air replacing the gas? The biggest problem is the installers. I live in climate Zone 7 and the installers are often blowing foam when it is too cold. When Certainteed started making foam, the area rep contacted me repeatedly to blower door test and look at the homes with the IR camera. It wasn't good. Foam had shrunk, didn't adhere to the substrate, some of the mixtures of foam were off. If blown in proper conditions, foam works where it is sprayed. Then if you get into environmental and health issues with foam, that is another issue. The great majority of Passive Houses are not made with blown foam.
should have round table with building code people about this
The best insulation hands down. Not one time in the 10 years I have been spraying has a customer called and said anything negative about how the spray foam performed as an insulator. It’s always a positive result almost life changing for people. The only complaint I getand it’s constant is the price. If the codes/ R-value updated with scientific data that spray foam is in fact the best insulation there is on the market and has many other benefits outside of just an insulator that no other insulation even comes close to matching. Once the codes are changed Spray foam will be code and therefore drop the price on the material and make it more affordable for everyone. Thanks again Mike
Everything is subjective. If you were a rockwool insulator you'd thing it was the best insulation. Spray foam masks leaks in roofs. I've personally seen a few that had rotted sheathing and rafters before the leak was caught. Not everything is the best or "life changing", which is a ridiculous statement.
Best is def subjective.
Dense pack fiberglass at R-23 outperforms 3 inches of foam at r-21. R-value is what's king. Basic air sealing detail is all you need to get a house tight and avoid spending money to bring in fresh air. Forced ach is the same as nat ach below 1
There were multiple tests. One example. R-21 batting outperformed r-20 cellulose even though cellulose is air tight.
R-20 ellulose performed better than t-19 batting.
R-23 dense pack will outperform r-21 foam. Basic air sealing is all you need.
R value is king
It also takes 15 years to see ROI on foam when compared to the standard batting. Not calculating fresh air intake costs.
With dense pack you'll wait 8 years over the standard costs.
Batting offers no ROI for new construction.
Good stuff.
I would hope a higher R value would out perform a lower R value
Air barriers testing is critical for the whole envelope. Zip sheeting combined with flash and batt Rockwool on 2x6 studs is current gold standard but it’s evolving. Closed cell strengthens the whole thing.
Flash and batt is a disaster in cold climates and will have moisture issues. I have spoken to multiple people already this year that had to open walls and remove it.
@@SprayJones agreed, the further north you go…
What about open cell on top of closed cell (2" of closed cell followed by filling cavity with open cell)? Will that lead to the same moisture problems as flash and batt?
So much information! So many points that aren't in code and how construction gets around things. Not sure anyone truely believes it's not a known issue.
Crawford out 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏻♂️
Exactly!
Ask any renovator what the fiberass insulation looks like after a period of years.
Dirty with black if air sealing was subpar and not poofy like when first installed.
@@trevorhardy3544 Don't forget the rat/mouse poop.
Thanks for the videos. You are on another level.
Trying to find a good installer in Kentucky
Finding you have set the bar to high
Looking to build a house in AK in 25/26, zone 7 building code requirements so heavily looking at closed cell. Thank you so much for your info and continuing info as I’m supposed to have R-50 value in the ceiling now and looking at how to do that. Super excited for this series for sure.
What are the specs for vaulted ceilings?
As with anything, the devil is in the details. In this case, penetration, vapor, water, and air management are all more important than base-line R-value. The closed-cell spray can easily form a vapor barrier (very cool), but special care still needs to be taken to make sure that OSB sheathing isn't seeing any water. If a builder is just slapping some Tyvek or tar paper on it and then attaching siding or shingles directly to it then you can easily run into the problem of that OSB soaking up water over time and failing in spectacular fashion. If you're gonna seal the inside of the sheathing, it's probably a very good idea to seal the outside too with something like a peel-and-stick, fluid-applied, or something like Zip or LP's WeatherLogic to make sure the wood never sees that moisture.
Also, to your point about diminishing returns going beyond 2in of spray foam, I might add that your spray foam is only as thick as your deepest penetrations allow it to be. More specifically, if somebody pops a 2in nail or screw through the sheathing and it isn't trimmed on the inside before being sprayed over with 2in of foam, then you've only got about a half inch of foam in that spot, which can lead to little snowballs forming on the inside of the foam in very cold conditions. Saw that happen on Mr-Postframe's barndominium (2in spray backed up by fiber batt) and that was gnarly. All that said, not trying to talk bad about spray foam. Just saying that the entire package has to be evaluated and implemented well for any insulation strategy to be successful over the long term. Love watching these videos, as they always get my brain thinking about second and third order considerations about any strategy I think about implementing and what to keep an eye out for when I do implement it.
+1 .. Good morning Denver, Colorado ..
Hello spray jones hoping to ask a question, we have a 1964 house with cathedral ceiling in living room in cold Calgary prairie. The inside of roof is wood tongue and groove, so plan when replacing roof is to spray foam the other side of tongue and groove. Seems like most spray foam is sprayed to backside of the roof deck. Any issues with spraying the back of the tongue and groove then putting decking over top?
Do you do anything about sealing plates, like plates to slab, between double top plates, corners, etc where your foam isn't applied, or is that up to somebody else?
I know most people use a caulking sealant, I have seen others spraying a blue liquid of some sort, just wondering about your thoughts and if you do anything like that.
Spray foam can have user error on installation, that's why it's regulated more. Code prefers factory made insulation for it's uniformity and testing. It has nothing to do with trying to keep spray foam out of the code. R-values aren't the only measure for insulation value in the US, U-Factor (u-value) can also be used.
You didn't even listen to a word said...
And error can’t happen when installing fiberglass?
It's a big ship and takes a long time to turn, especially when the fiber industry and builder associations.
Absolutely, plus you are killing them in order to do it. So they either have to play dead or pivot to the new..
Hi Mr SJ. I have a question regarding a new structure in a country that builds entirely different than we do in NA. Is there a way I can contact you? Ty. Max
Adobe on the inside, foam on the outside, sounds great!
Don't suppose you remember roughly what the inside / outside temperature delta was with those potato storage units to require 5"? Cheers!
to avoid condensation.
We are about to build a Barndo (metal siding/roof with zip sheathing) house with a pit basement in North Carolina. Would you recommend doing closed cell on outside basement walls? If so, would you recommend putting an additional dimple mat on the outside of the foam as well? Do you recommend an air gap on the roof since it will be metal roofing? Want to use closed cell from the basement up to the roof.
I cannot make specific recommendations because they depend on approvals for your county / area.
Watch the 4 part roof series, also in contact with ground video.
I am planning a "hot roof" or unventilated roof - reinforced with the information from Mike's videos. Review Mike's videos and you'll find what you need.
Curious to hear what you think about the SIP wall assembly using PU closed cell foam core. So, it would be zip outside, PU foam, osb inside. 4.5" wall is an R26 and nets 3.5" of foam between the sheathing. Is it a good or bad idea?
Thanks
Good idea. We have done projects like that already.
In the northeast if you have a house that has typical tyvek house wrap and you were to open the walls from the inside with the goal of swapping out glass fiber insulation for three inches of closed cell spray foam, would the house wrap be on the wrong side of the foam and create moisture problems down the road?
No.
Im having an installer trying to tell me I need 2-3" of closed cell with 4" of open cell over it?
Im considering doing it myself. There is a company that rents a sprayfoam rig and a company near by that carries the Alpha brand foam. Im pretty handy but im still worried I will not do it properly. Your videos are very helpful. Id love more info
Get a pro. You have no idea what you are doing and what to look for.
Why closed and then open cell? Explain the reasoning behind this?
I’m in the same boat of doing a hybrid 2” CC and 5” OC
I have a extremely low roof line maybe a 3/12 and I have a metal roof over top of asphalt roof
It’s elevated on purlins and and there is a ridge vent that I was gonna seal up from underneath.
I’m also installing a dedicated circuit for a dehumidifier if I need one. I’m in a mountain zone 5a? I’m also using Mitsubishi mini splits on each floor.
Could I just spray the 2x4 rafters with 3” of closed cell and get be fine?
Won’t have access to roofline once drywall is hung.
I have a one hundred year old brick construction house with no insulation in Jersey City NJ what spray foam would be suitable for such a structure?
I’m thinking about doing a full gut, removing the old asbestos and the plaster and lathe walls and ceiling’s and install 2x4 framing and new electrical and plumbing and a new Flat torch down roof.
Would I be better off if I put a puck system styrofoam on the exterior as a thermal break and then had it stuccoed? Or spray foam only the basement walls and put up 2x4 and 5/8” sheet rock for fire resistant walls?
I don’t really want to gut the entire house if I can get a reasonable amount of sealing and insulation performance by doing the outside rather than the inside. What’s your thinking Mike?
Gut, frame and use 2lb closed cell. Have a dedicated video on "old brick home". Go find it via the search icon on SJ home page channel.
Now only if I could get my city to start watching your vids…
It wouldn't help, you need to educate the people overseeing. That takes more than videos.
The tightest buildings made and tested are Passive Houses. There is very little or no blown foam in them typically. I have tested foamed homes and the cavities may be sealed, the rest of the details still have to be done. What about the thermal drift in the foam from cells breaking down over time and air replacing the gas? The biggest problem is the installers. I live in climate Zone 7 and the installers are often blowing foam when it is too cold. When Certainteed started making foam, the area rep contacted me repeatedly to blower door test and look at the homes with the IR camera. It wasn't good. Foam had shrunk, didn't adhere to the substrate, some of the mixtures of foam were off. If blown in proper conditions, foam works where it is sprayed. Then if you get into environmental and health issues with foam, that is another issue. The great majority of Passive Houses are not made with blown foam.
No fault of the product. If I hand you a lawn mower and someone first uses it over gravel do you bitch about the condition of the blade afterwards?