Psy-Ko-ized Echo cs-7310PW vs Stock 461
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Filmed in mid-May, 2021
The filming process was plagued with a TON of traffic interruptions. Both vehicle and farm equipment, along with a battery failure. I had to do a lot of starting & stopping with the camera. Consequently, there was a lot of splicing - resultantly there is some overlap in thought.
As with all saws, there are both good and bad points to them. The Echo has a good feel in hand while being quite narrow - a plus. It is, and I had high hopes it would be different, not a brutish torque type machine. I was a bit disappointed with it in stock form. I was really hopeful it would be on par with the “REAL” XPW Husqvarna. This is based on the non-smog designs they both share, along with the very near, same displacement numbers.
This was one of the first saw test (Read R&D) sessions with the 7310 being in zipped form. Seen here in homemade wrap trim. As mentioned, the Echo was ~ 5.5 seconds slower on average in the stock vs stock session with a new 461. I would also state that the 7310 had the worst of the knots in this pitting. So, had the bole been completely sans limbs, the Echo would have been a little bit faster than the 461 yet.
Looking at the timed runs:
Echo cs-7310 P spinning 13,080 wot went 13.73 at 9,000 rpm down, 14.68 at 8,760 up, and 15.10 at 8,640 up
Stihl ms461 R spinning 13,080 wot went 14.47 at 8,640 down and 14.44 at 6,840 up
The rpm values in the wood for both saws are close. The Echo went from being ~ 5.5 seconds slower on average to a little bit faster and the same while having a worse go in the knot section.
In the end, the 7310 came around a HUGE amount when looking at the stock versus zipped times. I was pleased at that part. Too bad it wasn’t sporting another HP in the belt. Might have been a formidable falling mo-chine at that point.
Also as mentioned, the Bench Talk video for the Echo 7310 spells out most of the “why” it is down on power : • Echo CS-7310P Bench Talk
Clarifications:
Forgot to mention the old Mac saws….
Starting in ’76 with the actual tree falling aspect. Firewood fun started the previous year, in ‘75.
Including the warmup session for this video, the 461 had 3 heat cycles.
At the time of your viewing this video, I may or may not be available for custom saw modifications. If you are interested, Please shoot me an email.
danger_cat@rocketmail.com
Thanks for watching.
Hey jack hope alls well, I love the video on the echo 7310, im a logger here in n.western pa I happen to own a 7310 and mine really came alive between 15th and the 20th tank, we're at almost 1400ft elevation here and I'm pretty much cutting hardwood here bore cutting and all and it just seems to want to eat, thank you for all you do and don't stop we all appreciate you have a blessed day, from a logger and family in God's country n.western pa
Hello. The description contains qualification and/or clarification. The timed runs are in there as well. As always, I highly recommend that you have a looksee for "more".
Thanks for watching.
Man i wish you would make some more videos your content is some of the best out there, I mean I really enjoy it.
Way better than it was !
Good job Jack was waiting for this one thanks for sharing !!
Awe yeah! What a treat tonight. I hope you and yours have been awesome Jack. Bad a.. full wrap! Goodnight that was a great first cut. I can hear what you're talking about about power on the top of the pile on the upcut.
I’ve only recently stumbled on this channel…Apparently, I’ve been hiding under a rock🤣 such great content here, very detailed explanation on saw/2 stroke anatomy. Thanks for all the efforts👍🏻
Top shelf in my opinion Mr. Doug...
I D hi. Sure hope you "dint" stub your toe in the stumbing, lol. No worries though, I'm always "slammer-ing" my speech...
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 Mr. Jack, if I remember correctly, I stumbled on Doug here.
@@hotsaws101 Hola, que es mejor echo 7310 ,o stihl ms 461
Best saw I’ve ever owned - 461. Great vid
God Bless and Protect you and this wonderful community!!!
Awesome video good data. Is that a cannon bar?
My 562 XP Auto tune ran really rich brand new and leaned itself out, Not sure if it was for a break in time period or what but I agree it's definitely possible to program break in loops. I commented on one of your videos recently, The Soft Dutchman, where you dropped a hard leaner on the tension side. I think about it all the time and want to know how the hell you did that with such ease. It's complicated, and even watching doesn't tell the whole story. I would love for you to do a voice over where you watch the video and explain what your doing and why. I think a lot of people could learn from your expertise.
I love Husqvarna saws. Mpo the 562 runs extremely better 40:1 with that being said I never asked the guy I bought it from if he ever modded it out (can't find him now) anyways I ended up scorching the piston so I had him rebuild it and this guy Knows his shit! He told me to run 40:1 NOTHING ELSE. It's one of the baddest saws iv ever owned! Still running strong.
@@brianandrade1689 Same, I love them and never had a bad Husky saw. No reason to stray for me.
@@ravenshield7823 rite on brother
I’m fairly new to running saws, but I recently had a burned up 034 built into a 036. The shop that rebuilt it tuned the carb a fair bit rich and just asked that I’d give it at least 2 gallons. I have noticed an increase in responsiveness compared to the first tank and a solid 10-15% more more power. Gotta say the biggest thing I’ve noticed is the increase in compression as the rings seat. Can’t wait to get a few more hours on it and have the carb tuned a little leaner. It definitely four strokes earlier in the revs as it is.
Try it with the 462c....its a pretty badass saw.
I'm pretty much a "husky" guy but a buddy a mine took a 462 and tweaked the timing and muffler modded it and it rips
@@jamiedalluge9472I bet, its our favorite saw at work. Always wanted to soup one up.
how much do you charge to hop up a saw
Have you tried changing carbs on the echo? I put a 460 carb on my 620 and that really opened it up, along with some air box mods.
Echo hands down best saw on the market for the money. For 98% of the people seconds dont matter cutting firewood. Not to mention warranty. 5 years with a lifetime ignition coil warranty. For the average joe under 900 bucks, winner in my book.
You are quite right. 99% of the echos sold at the handful of dealers in my area are sold to home/land owners and they love them. The dealership will tell them if your not out logging and production cutting heres a great saw that will last you for years
@@jamiedalluge9472 Echo's are just fine for commercial work. For the past 10 years I've had nothing but problems with most of my Stihls and Echo has been gradually filling that void for me. We don't have any Husqvarna shops around so I don't buy those.
@@apersonontheinternet8006 glad to hear their working out good for you 👍.
I had trouble with a brand new Stihl before it was even used and the dealership didn’t want to honor the warranty so sold it and bought the Echo CS590 and sent it to Iowa Performance Saws for a muffler mod and retune and it’s a beast for what it is. I love using it for cutting my firewood, start’s every time and durable as they get. I’m hooked on Echo now, made a believer out of me
That Echo sounded good...but it's still an Echo...are they still made in Japan...heard the new one are made in China now..??..thank you for the hard work you put in your videos. Shoe
They are made in Illinois
Pro saws made in Japan 🇯🇵
@@AATreeService no hq is in il
@@AATreeService Oh thank you didn't know that....well USA jobs....sell a lot of them at Home depot. Shoe
Gentlemen hello. As far as I know, Echo is a subsidiary of Yamabiko Corporation, which is headquartered in Japan. This makes it the parent company of Echo Incorporated (Echo USA) in Illinois. I think it was some sort of merger of Shindawa & Kioritz corporations ~ the '07/08 timeframe. I think Yamabiko Corp. is based in Ōme Japan. Kioritz Corporation of America originally founded Echo Incorporated in '72. It's like an onion...
Echo equipment is manufactured around the globe. Yokosuka & Morioka (Japan) seem to be the two major cities that produce a lot of the hand held, fuel powered machines. Shenzhen China & Lake Zurich - in Illinois - are two other locations that produce machines for Echo.
My suggestion would be to have a looksee at the placard on the individual piece of equipment before making statement/s of it's "made here".
Thanks for watching.
I live in IL , What do you think for a 70 cc saw ? Cutting hard woods. Echo worth it stock form.
Pat hi. It depends on a multitude of factors for me. My criteria might not be consistent with what works for you.
I look at dealer support, because all saws will break parts at some point. How far is the range that I will be working. 1½ away & driving. 4 hours and camping on site, etc.
I look at the possible spare parts already in the collection - lessens down time. How the saw handles - the ergonomics - how it feels while my meathooks are on the handles. The balance, for me is pivotal - how the saw is weighted in hand with the intended bar & chain. Coming from a bushelers background, I look at the power to weight ratio as well.
On day 1 on the landing, I am considering the terrain, timber size, old chunk content in that drainage if I've been there before. The cutting prescription, species variance - wood density, etc. Then I'll make a decision on the bar length. Only then will I choose the powerhead in my collection that best fits for the application.
So without some nuance from you, it's hard to say. I'll never be able to tell you which saw you will like best either. That's a hands-on experience.
Bar length is a consideration - the shorter it is, the better a 7310 will handle it. That equals the more the operator will be bending over at the same time.
The 7310 lacks power for it's mass imho. If you are not in hurry it might fit the bill. On the left coast, dealer support for Echo is severely lacking. The 7310 is not hundreds less than a 372xp over here either. I do not know of a pro faller that runs echo consistently as the primary powerhead/s.
Hope this helps.
Thaks for watching.
Woah! Where'd all your sumac leaves leave?
batmantiss hi.
The description touches, ever so slightly, on the filming fiasco this video was. Resultantly, it was an editing nightmare. I had to use the "sign-off" from the stock session between these two.
Thanks for watching.
Yesterday I turned 50 so my birthday workout was :50 sets 10 reps freestanding hspu's 97 minutes dead
Hello sir, i was wondering with the shape of the side plates on the transfers if they could be made flat for more transfer volume? This would probably lose some bottom end or move the power band up the rev range I suppose. I'm just starting out on working on my own saws and am trying to get as many opinions/theories as I can. I am a recent subscriber but have been lurking for a fair while.
ozdatman hi.
Thanks for the interest.
It's being done with epoxy.
Thanks for watching.
Good evening question not about the video but about the 562 husky .why is it when you throw the chain the drivers get burredup so bad you can't get it to fit back on the bar?
Tim hi. I think that it is because the 562 are a saw with good lowend power - even in stock form.
From my experience, saws with more torque have a tendency to continue to spin the chain with more authority as it "being blown off" the rails.
Saws with less down low power do not seem to "ruin" the drivers like the torquer saws.
This is addition to the case design. Some saws have bolt heads and structural components that "bugger" up the chain as it leaves the rails. Some case designs do not have the same encumbrances in close proximity so the net result is less/no damage.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks
Great job sir
Please I need help I have a stihl 461 I want to put the same dogs you have on your 461 can you please tell me who makes them and the part number for both of them thank you.
Jeff hi.
On the 461 are the stock, oem West Coast, or wrap version spikes.
Any decent Stihl shop can order you a set.
Or, Madsen's in Centralia WA will send you them.
Blessings to you on this, His day.
Thanks for watching.
Awesome. Fun video.
Excellent review and comments, as always! What is your opinion of the 7310 in a "less than professional setting"?
What I'm thinking of is a user who has it in operation perhaps 6 to 10 hours a month for recreational/fire wood cutting? Would love your opinion! 💪👍
Idk about Jack but I think that it wld b perfect for that application
7310 is a pro saw and is great when not sandbagged by a clown
Donny Walker jst mentioned in one of his latest videos he rates them in between a commercial and pro saw but that was his opinion on them. He jst sells/builds them doesn't work at echo....
Gentlemen hello.
The 7310 is what is considered a "pro" version saw by Echo as far as I can tell - along with all the fanboys...
As mentioned a multitude of times before - There are both good and bad aspects about ALL saws. No one machine has the best of every attribute. PERIOD. This is partially due to company philosophy, "design norms" a manufacturer already has developed - spent years perfecting along with a mountain of cash, and budgetary constraints for the "new & improved" mindset they all deal with, etc., etc.
Fit & finish are pro level quality on the 7310. There is nothing subpar with the "interlockability" of the parts. The colors all match. I've mentioned that the siting line being white is really nice. The slim physical design is much appreciated.
The composition of the fuel & impulse lines makes them spongy to the touch - I would be leery of a failure at some point in the bottom of a yarder block at 6 A.M.
The power output, for the machine's mass, is subpar, also a PERIOD. There is no way around that part. In a production use application, piecework, volume, etc., this saw is not a good choice imho. I did mostly busheling (starting mid '80s) in my falling career. I'm biased toward reliability, feel in hand, and power as a result. Keep in mind that what I like for "maneuverability & aerodynamics" may not suit the next guy.
The muffler bracket & attachment method is way overkill and adds extra weight. The non-captive cylinder cover bolts are also way overkill & heavy. They will fall "out the cover" when it is inverted. That is just a poor design. So, here we have a saw that has both good and bad attributes - just like the rest of them.
There are many factors to consider when purchasing a new saw. If the operator is not in a big hurry, this machine will suffice. Seems like they are not overly expensive either - that is also a consideration. The air filtration system on this saw does better than most others. In excessively dusty conditions this saw might be the best choice.
I would consider the source of the received commentary when asking saw questions. Sympathizers that have never been off of pancake flat ground, used saws (extensively starting in '81) in every decade since the mid '70s, or have been working on and/or rebuilding their own saws after felling millions of board feet of timber with them are/will be of a different opinion. What can I say there...
Thanks for watching.
Perfectly said Jack
Please do a video on Echo CS-620 that will change your mind on Echo’s.
zeromark202 hi.
I've been under the hood and modded the 620 platform.
Has a lot of the same issues as the 7310.
In the 60cc range the 562 is a beastly little saw. The same can be said for the 6100 Dolmar-Makita.
Thanks for watching.
Did you take any off the bottom of the cylinder on the 7310?
Saw your comment even though you deleted. Hotsaws101 lost all credibility with me. I've seen what others did with the 7310 and what he did. Two different things. He hates echo and wanted to fail it.
Autigers2013 hi. It did adjust the squish band. There is no way to have one running like this without doing so.
Utilizing only stock oem fitment parts, while leaving the outside physical characteristics stock as well, I made this 7310 at least six seconds faster than it was in bone stock condition. That was the point of this exercise.
Like I've said, and it has been repeatedly, all saws have both good and bad
attributes.
In stock form the 7310 has one of the lowest compression ratios there is. So by default in stock form it's never going make great power. That's just plain physics. What's unfortunate is that some out there cannot seem to get their minds wrapped around this, along with many other facts.
The 7310 has its place. It's just not in the hands of a production faller on the West Coast. The 620, now that's a different story. But for another day.
Seems like the same group that gets their panties in a wad are completely lacking in experience in rugged falling conditions. They have minimal amounts of time with hands on the end of a pistol grip. It's painfully obvious to those with multiple decades actually wearing saws out as soon as they open their mouths.
Sure hope your not one of the many caught up in all the hype.
Thanks for watching.
Shack man - I'm not looking for or need your approval.
You have little to no experience on steep nasty ground using saws. Let alone doing it for decades.
You need to get a life outside of monitoring this channel. Maybe bone up on the facts of your "golden boy saw" as well.
You also need to clean out the wax from your ears. I've never said I didn't like Echo saws. Actually said the 620 is a force once zipped.
It's time, for you to just go away. But don't go away mad...
I've seen some guys that port the echoes epoxy the transfer covers to be able to open them up a little more. The way they're made you will grind through them if you're not careful. I can see where you may not want to do that on a saw you depend on every day.
The saw still made some good gains. You did some fine work on the handle bar fab. You'll have to share how you keep from smoking that rubber on them.
Austin hi.
Epoxy has a certain number of heat cycles it can go through before it will "epic fail" as far as I know.
If the angle was a play saw that gets run every so often could see doing that.
Not sure at this point if I'm completely done with that saw either. I may "go at it" again after Mr. Ryder gets some more time on it.
The transfers are not the only flow related issue that saw has. The Echo 7310 Bench Talk video spells out multiple "points of interest" as to why it lags in the power department.
It went from being between 5 and 6 seconds slower to even and a bit faster - with a worse go of it in the knots section. If you have ever dealt with "the knot section", and it's easy to see here, then you know what I saying here.
I started repairing & building handle bars in the mid '80s. It is a little like black magic welding that close without wrecking things. I do it for my clients that want/need it.
Thanks for watching.
Where can I purchase the oversized clutch cover for a 461
douglasfence hi. Any decent Stihl shop can order one.
If you want to make a call and just order one - Madsen's in Centralia WA will hook you up.
Thanks for watching.
@@hotsaws101 thank you keep up the great work enjoy watching your stuff
462 or 7310 and new snowboard boots???🤔 Terrible dilemma I have.
462 power to weight ratio is very impressive
Which saw is more durable? Easier to start? Easier to adjust chain, change bar etc. 3 -5 seconds a cut means nothing if I’m also fiddling with shit instead of cutting.
@@andyeighttre my personal choice between the two wld b 462 for what I do but I'd take a 572 over 462 if that's an option. Again person preference and I've ran them all
A good pipe mod and retune will go a long way with that saw. It really helped my CS590 alot
There are a few guys out there that port a 7310 and they are by far one of the fastest 70cc saws on the market.
Alex hi.
We are going to have to agree to disagree here.
This is why -
If the tuner knows what they are doing on "saws" in general, uses the saws as they come (i.e. stock form - no alternative parts, no welding, no bb, no epoxy, nitro, etc.) for the alterations, as in the 7310 we see here, then the Echos are not, or ever will be, "one of the fastest saws out there". It's physics. It's also a given that the amount of work and/or level the saws are taken to is equal when you are talking "ported"...
This saw in zipped (all stock componentry) form just runs a little better than a bone stock 461.
The Bench Talk video for the 7310 explains most of the "why" it suffers in stock form, and will also be after it is zipped, lagging.
Thanks for watching.
I can handle a couple of seconds to save 3 to 4 hundred dollars for a new saw
Ease of start, longevity, reliability, maintenance. Echo tops them all and at less money. Same reason why Tacoma’s and Tundra’s have loyal followings. They last forever even if you suck at maintenance. Echos slogan should be “gets started faster than a nagging wife”, or “only your wife gets louder after 3 pulls”.
@@hotsaws101 also didn’t say fastest saw. Please re read. Just had a little chat with 2 guys I know that have been porting the 7310 for longer than anyone else, one guy was before they were even released publicly. Just watched it walk all over a 500i. No it has not been epoxied or any dumb stuff. Just saying, there are people out there that know what they are doing. Big time. There is so much potential there and u have to find it. So I just talked with a good friend of mine who ports these, he sent me a video of a “stock” 461 and a ported by him 7310. If U call 5 seconds in 30” wood just a little better then by all means I’ll tell ya that you’re right, but come on now.
Also, Again, please re read a little closer.
Not sure if U ever have your saws tuned properly or not but I have a few dozen videos from my own back yard of one of my 7310s running neck in neck with a 462. Yeah it’s broken in and tuned properly.
@@AATreeService You said " by far one of the fastest", also "it has not been epoxied or any dumb stuff", many top builders of race and work saws use epoxy in the transfer and intake area, this is not uncommon. Some builders are cnc/building oversize transfer covers for the 7310 but epoxy is not uncommon.
holy crap you run them chains tight. why dont you modify the intake and adjust the squish on the echo
💪💪💪😀
I'll stick with my Stihl saws especially my older ones
Stihl saws just suck they better step there game up