The neuroscience of religious experiences | Patrick McNamara
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- This interview is an episode from @The-Well, our publication about ideas that inspire a life well-lived, created with the @JohnTempletonFoundation.
Subscribe to The Well on CZcams ► bit.ly/thewell-youtube
Watch Patrick McNamara’s next interview ► • The neuroscience of ni...
Patrick McNamara, an experimental neuroscientist, argues that the function of religion is not just to quell existential anxiety or stave off the fear of death, but to disrupt current models of the self and to update those models in relation to the world around us. Religious experiences promote imaginative simulation of other possible worlds, giving us space to update those models.
One core facet of the spiritual experience is what McNamara calls “de-centering” - a powerful technique that promotes self-transformation and makes us incredibly vulnerable when triggered. When held in the context of a ritual, like many religious practices, we can achieve massive personal growth and transcendence. But de-centering isn’t only effective within the context of religion: Secular people can re-discover or create their own rich traditions to support the de-centering experience.
The field of experimental neuroscience is uncovering some fundamental aspects of human nature and experience, simultaneously enhancing our understanding but also deepening the mystery. McNamara’s research sheds light on the potential benefits of religion and ritual, and highlights how much more is still to be learned about how these processes can be harnessed for positive transformation.
0:00 The standard theory of religion
1:25 What is a self model?
2:32 Simulating other possible worlds
3:05 “Decentering”: A self-transformation process
5:12 Fanaticism: When decentering goes wrong
6:23 Ritual decentering
Read the video transcript ► bigthink.com/the-well/neurosc...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About Patrick McNamara:
Patrick McNamara is Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northcentral University. He also holds appointments in the departments of Neurology at the University of Minnesota and Boston University School of Medicine. He is a founding editor of Religion, Brain & Behavior, the flagship journal for the emerging field of neuroscience of religion. McNamara's current research centers on the evolution of the frontal lobes, the evolution of the two mammalian sleep states (REM and NREM), and the evolution of religion in human cultures.
McNamara is the editor of Where God and Science Meet and Science and World Religions, and the author of The Neuroscience of Religious Experience (Cambridge University Press), Religion, Neuroscience and the Self: A New Personalism (Routledge), and numerous publications on the neurology and psychology of religion. McNamara is a John Templeton Foundation award recipient for his research project The Neurology of Religious Cognition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read more from The Well:
How saying “me” or “we” changes your psychological response - and the response of other people
► bigthink.com/the-well/pronoun...
Biology’s unsolved chicken-or-egg problem: Where did life come from?
► bigthink.com/the-well/biology...
Why has every postwar generation since the 1950s become less religious?
► bigthink.com/the-well/postwar...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About The Well
Do we inhabit a multiverse? Do we have free will? What is love? Is evolution directional? There are no simple answers to life’s biggest questions, and that’s why they’re the questions occupying the world’s brightest minds.
Together, let's learn from them.
Subscribe to the weekly newsletter ► bit.ly/thewellemailsignup
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join The Well on your favorite platforms:
► Facebook: bit.ly/thewellFB
► Instagram: bit.ly/thewellIG
Have you ever had a spiritual experience (regardless of whether you're religious)?
I have experienced Flow or being in-the-zone during an activity that combines body and mind, where your self model becomes sublime feels fully integrated embedded within time-space.
nope.
Define spiritual.
Not religious but I consider myself spiritual. I jave experienced a great sense of disappointment towards the world and society (as a westerner. I cannot speak about society in which my knowledge and experience is limited) I see a lot of fear and jealousy, destruction and selfishness. This along with capitalistic greed and a toxic relationship had brought me to my knees wanting to end it all. I was diagnosed with depression and burnout. Got med to numb myself and lose touch with myself more than ever before. Every step I took to healing just removed me more and more from my authentic self, and only alowed others to be in control of me. This was abusive even from health professionals.
When I quit it all, the health professionals, the medication, the therapy and simply returned to myself. Learning to take a real hard look at myself and work with my flaws. Owning up to all that was me, the good and the bad. I learned to love myself. Now I make turning inwards though meditation and sitting with anything and everything that triggers me, I am finding peace.
We hold all our answers within. Taking true responsibility for myself towards my self (not some deity) brought me healing. It brought me peace. I feel more empowered than ever.
Is it all rainbows and sunshine? No, life still hurts. I am still disappointment with the society, we live in but there is no more drowning. Do I feel alienation towards certain people and do some topics seem extremely shallow (think the latest gossip, being a certain bodyshape, materialistic nonsense just to show off with. Worrying whether someone likes me enough etc) I find I cannot for the life of me care anymore.
I care about health and wellbeing of myself and the people I love, I care about a better future of humanity and the environment. I care about talking about self-realisation and growth as a person. Our world is full of fears and greed, most people seem to be unaware of their actions and true reasons. I have decided to do the opposite, this choice will be a lifetime work in progress as it is easy to be swepped away in the group consciousness that is society. By no means do I think my way is better, its just an other path in life. But this path had given me peace. ❤
Yes.
Realizing that there is no afterlife was very freeing and comforting for me.
NDEs completely disagree with you.
Proof please. You state an opinion as if it’s fact.
My point … why do you profess such certainty about something we can’t know the answer to?
By the way, I think the Christian idea of heaven and hell is childish nonsense.
@@chuckm1961 NDEs both feature heaven and hell.
You can't realize there's no afterlife unless you've died and come back to tell us about how there's no afterlife. And, well, if you did that, then... This is the problem, we can't prove there's no after-life, whereas there is a potential of proving there's an after-life. Not saying it's likely to be proven or to exist, but it's more likely than proving or having knowledge of something that doesn't exist. Such as, as you say, no afterlife.
But if there is an afterlife, it's probably far different than any person, group, or religion can imagine or comprehend.
@@chuckm1961 This is a logical fallacy. You can't prove that something isn't real when there is no evidence that it exists except for religious doctrine.
The video editing is mind blowing. 😮 A big thank you, to whomever did this.
An interesting take on spiritual, or mystical experiences - as a mechanism to upgrade/update identity, when the current identity is no longer fit for purpose.
I guess this approach could be taken to suggest that these experiences are primarily for personal use - and not to be used to tell other people what they should be belive, or do...
I think there is a difference between those who actually have “religious experiences”and those who believe in particular religious beliefs or doctrines which have been created, often from the experience of one individual: Mohammed or Jesus being the best known. The overwhelming numbers of people who consider themselves religious have not had that personal psychological experience that is that sense of disembodiment etc. then brought to a new understanding of the Self.
All too often belief in a particular religion becomes an excuse to coerce or to be violent against others in order to get them to believe the same things or to follow a particular life style. That is “religion” used to take away someone else’s freedom to define themselves: religion used to coerce and not to liberate or redefine relationship.
wonder if the whole decentering process mentioned in the video is undergone by those who have "religious experience", but the followers of religion who haven't gone through that do value religion as anxiety modulator, staving off the fear of death?
@@GeoffryGifari Yes, it is to stave off the fear of death, but in the wrong manner. Religion, as far as I can tell, given I think I have had that "religious experience," is about reconnecting to something greater than yourself. Some call it God, some call it Source, the Dao, Christ consciousness etc. The point it, it is deeply connected to the matter of life and death.
In regards to it being abused, is simply because people are flawed. Ancient figures like Jesus I think, were likely people who had this "religious experience" and were essentially followed and created people created religions out of them, but religion today has been mutilated and used to preach virtuosity at this point.
Lastly, just my advice, don't bother too much with religion. Come to them as you would a scholar or student, not as a follower, and they can all point you to that which is, which is a deeply personal and human experience of being, related with death, life and what it means to be alive.
@@leexiong2128 thanks for writing this it was so insightful! :)
@@leexiong2128 what does it mean to be alive? What if it is beyond my mental capacity to explore these truths? Since truth is now subjective this implies relative morality, if any, does this mean we adjust natural impulses with respect to social consequences? If I can get away with stealing, why shouldn't I? What about murder?
@@SydneyCarton2085 It's not beyond anyone's mental capacity because you don't add, but rather take away. It is essentially, a dialogue between you and yourself. It arises out of the nature of self.
All fair questions of morality. Who's to say you shouldn't steal or murder? Maybe you should. Just to see that this is all going on inside you and to put your attention to it is to see what is.
Interesting to connect these topics. At superficial consideration, it seems that there may really be an important relationship between identity construction and religious world vs self models
😂 You mean you've never heard a Guy bomb himself in Market, with last words referring to Islamic God?
if you replace "religous experience" with "psychedelic experience" and all the other words are the same this video is still factual.
Updating one's own identity can be achieved in so many ways, not just through religion. And although religion can be very positive at times, it cannot be denied that it can also sometimes be a significant source of dogmatism (and consequently rigidity of the self).
Religion provides us to look outside of our worldly self (requiring executive functions to survive the busyness & complications), and allows us to connect to our soul or spirit and brings it to our awareness, even over our physical self. Religion can help us prepare for afterlife by living a life of purpose, love, and service to others.
This is an excellent way to look into not only how religion evolves (and why it must if it is to avoid being dangerous or empty), but also why it is so central to the experience of being human. And make no mistake, that experience is far more than just the data our five senses feed us or our desire to survive and procreate. It is our capacity to take existence to incredible levels beyond the universe itself.
Thank you so much for this.
"Beyond the universe itself" means nothing. It's fiction until we discover IF anything lies beyond the universe.
@@jmags2586 In a physical sense, you are quite right. The religious or spiritual experience, however, need not be physical. I should have said this in my post, and I appreciate your pointing it out. Thanks!
We all die.
apparently religion emerged as a kind of lullaby for a group of individuals who suffer from the adversities of life as a biological individual, it it must act as a modulator, a kind of internet of brains, which are so developed they need great stimuli, it must also act as a kind of "medicine for pain" that an individual has suffered without explanation. But finally, religion acts like science, both arose from the inherent questioning of its own existence present in us.
Regardless of what neuroscientists have an impact on others or what different scientists, doctors, ph.d's, philosophers, societies, cultures, religions, individuals believe but, there has to be one Absolute Truth/ Reality (100%).
The rest could be either some Truth with some Falsehood mix in it (no matter in whatever ratio/ percentage it is in i.e., 1% Truth & 99% falsehood, 2% Truth & 98% falsehood, 3% truth & 97% falsehood.......99% truth & 1% falsehood) or
Complete Falsehood/ Delusion.
The bright side is we have been blessed with consciousness, conscience, wisdom, ability to challenge, reason and choose.
And if we study science it suggests the presence of Intelligence/ Creator with Will & Power.
Science is the study of phenomenon/ process/ know-how which is perceived by our limited knowledge, intellect, understanding and senses like hearing and seeing ability. Ideas/Theories are proposed by observations which are perceived by our limited senses.
So, When a Programmer elaborates the importance of binary numbers/ language code of the Computer & explains (know-how/ phenomenon/ process) how a machine/computer talk then it does mean that there is a Programmer / Designer behind a computer. And, a human body is one of the most complicated machine on Earth let alone talking about the Universe.
However, I am aware that there are so many people who are turning away from Creator/ God due to ignorance and indoctrination.
But also, the reality is there are much more Scientists who believes in a Creator/ Intelligent Desiner/ The Fashioner than what most people really know.
They believe Intelligent Designer/Creator is a being who exists beyond the Space & Time of this Universe. He is the Originator of the First Atom/ Matter. He is the causer of the Big Bang. He is the Designer of our DNA🧬 (A Unique Program/ Code) who encoded the instructions in it & that's how our body or any body get Created. The process begins with the creation of a single molecule. The encoded instructions (program) in DNA makes it possible for DNA to multiply i.e. produce identical copies. The multiplication takes place until a body is formed. There are special enzymes which looks for mistakes on a minute by minute & second by second basis. Scientists / Biologists say it is beyond comprehension to understand the processes and how they (molecules) are able to multiply so effectively & efficiently.
DNA (Program) in the nucleus of a Molecule -> Cell -> Tissues -> Organs -> Body.
And, these non believing ones are pushed infront of the Media/Books/ podcasts etc. by the Zionists/ Ban, king Cartel who made a Law that its illegal to use Gold and Silver as Money. Rather, they made -:
1 U.S. $ = about 3,00,000 Venezuelan Bolivar;
1 U.S. $ = about 40,000 Iranian Rial, etc.
We are on the brink of catastrophic events and this community /cult is taking many people far away from the Purpose Of Life /Reason of Creation - perhaps the most important search for a human.
They don't believe in Judgement Day, Resurrection, Afterlife, Accountability rather they probably believe they are born for Nothing and they will die for Nothing. Rape, child sacrifice and blood drinking community (Satan Worshippers) aren't/isn't objectively evil. There's nothing wrong and nothing right.
Rather reductive way of analysing it, and also a tad condescending. You might say that it's a valid pursuit of explaining life and the purpose surrounding it, instead of assuming that we exist because of the random explosion of matter that apparently didn't exist previously.
@@TheShepdawg9 yes, of course as much as my view of our existence is more nilist (supporting the idea of life arising from disorganized symmetrical molecular motions), I really admire the way in which religion implies meaning in an individual's life, and it's an interesting way in which bonds can be created between different people while doing the opposite.
This is the kind of reflection that William James offers in his book about religious experience.
Does this also apply to faith crisis’? I felt very decentered and a change in model of self when I switched from a “god chose me to do x and god thinks y”, to “hmmm i might be cosmically insignificant, and have a definite end to my existence but the is the natural cycle of things, who am I to assume every living being was constructed for me (and humans in general) to pass some test?” I feel spirituality is a sense of grand connection and awe and curiosity and questioning self, but in my experience I got more of those experiences in a healthier manner as an atheist. Like they don’t necessarily have to be tied to a supernatural experience or a belief in otherworldly
I would consider that a spiritual experience. You had some false notions about a theoretical god-like being, and the decentering experience dispelled them. It brings you close to the truth, but it remains out of reach. It's the difference between true spiritual experience and religious ideology
That sounds similar to what I went through and I now find myself thinking clearly. That seems to be the purpose of this decentering process, changing your personality in favor of adapting to future events. What's most important for our mental/spiritual well-being is that we continue to grow and change in order to be close to the truth as possible. Failure to change and we risk becoming radicalized and stuck in our ways. That seems to be the main take away of this very interesting video and hopefully a good answer for you.
Brilliant explanation, is an holistic and integral view of science spirituality and humanism
Thanks for listening to my feedback! Very interesting ideas!❤
Religion and spirituality should not be confused. I’ve never seen a “spiritual” person be as bound up like a “religious” person.
So one should be loose? Ted Bundy was pretty loose. Just do what you feel like...
@@SydneyCarton2085 wtf has Ted Bundy got to do with anything?
@@peachesmcgee4795 You heard the man. He was loosey goosey.
This is stupid
Religious people claim to be spiritual.
how can spirituality be different from religion,when spirituality helps to cope?.
I agree, and if religion promotes and teaches about peace, then why can't they be at peace with everyone else? Religious people are so detrimental to others, as if they are superior to everybody else. Devoutly religious( godly), but they can't make themselves in accordance (be humane enough) with others.
This explains the intense vitriol and at times violent reaction to so many social issues today… especially those that focus on identity development. If people would just realize, as mentioned, that sense of self (identity) is a constantly evolving process, we’d actually have a productive discussion.
Sounds like he’s taken Turner’s social model for rites of passage (dissociation-liminality/communitas-aggregation) and made it internal, individual, and psychological.
He simply extended ideas in psychology. He did not use neuroscience at all. I suspect he's a psychologist who calls himself a neuroscientist, but isn't. The talk wasn't even about religiosity, but rather about mental models & self-transformation -- in any mental/social context.
While investing during a period of higher inflation appeared daunting at first, I learned to navigate it by consulting with Joseph Sullivan Anderson, an investment analyst, who devised a strategy to shift my fixed-income investments that weren't providing adequate returns to a diverse portfolio that would provide higher returns.
I believe I read about this analyst in a business journal.. he has a strong reputation and good insight when it comes to profiting from economic fluctuations.
It's a good thing I'm not the only one who feels this way. It's encouraging to know that Mr. Joseph has had an impact on people other than myself.
I recently paid off a $100k debt and I am now trying to improve my finances and prepare for retirement. How thoughtful is CZcams to show me this video and then this comments. I found his webpage after a quick internetsearch. Thanks!
The "decentering" piece sounds a lot like non-dual realization from Buddhism or Hinduism (Advaita Vedanta), and the subsequent reintegration. Similar ideas to the "dark night of the soul" and "shadow work" necessary to "re-integrate" the person, without which they can end up taking their "partial" awakening and using it to become a false guru or even a cult leader.
people don't know yet that when the consciousness is utterly in the present moment all mind noise STOPS and then real spiritual joy spread in being, this is what Religion talking about through stories metaphors symbols.
It's instilling spiritual principles to balance the egotism this world teaches. Values and beliefs determine our behavior and the the values and beliefs of this world are carnal and temporal. Temptation and desire.
"this world" is the only world us human animals live in and die on, just like every other living thing here.
"the value and beliefs of this world are temporal" is a circular statement that literally just defines the word 'temporal'.
"the value and beliefs of this world are carnal"? "temptation and desire"? do you mean sex and sexuality? because that's one of the natural, basic drives of living things, not an evil that must be tamped down and controlled by those with 'superior' values and beliefs.
egotism is the sense of self as a thinking, feeling individual, seperate from other people and things. inflated ego might be what you're referring to, where one has an overrated view of self.
my take: religion functions to inflate, excuse, or justify the ego, out of a sense of either inadequacy with self, and/or the egoist desire to gain a sense of superiority and/or authority over others.
@Nonya Bizness humans are not just another animal. We differ from the animal kingdom. It's sad that you believe that we are just another animal. Humans have a far better complexity in thought and exponentially more advanced capacity in holistic intelligence. Do you know that you belief is actually satanic.? Believing in thus false belief you leave yourself open to making the mistake of animalistic behavior.
@Nonya Bizness If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.
He keeps saying religion is supposed to call into question our understanding of the world, but throughout history this has been the opposite of what it has done. If you want to imagine how worlds could work differently, you don't need religion for that either, books and time to think provide plenty of opportunity for that.
This seems more related to the narrative/storytelling side of us than strictly religious one.
I suppose religion is a social narrative/story of a group
Perhaps you need to rethink your idea of what “religion” means.
Which was the point of this video.
@@chuckm1961 I don't see why ? My idea of it is pretty compatible.
I just disagree with him making religion swallow the narrative mind. Since they are rather distinct.
@@Jay-kx4jf can you explain to me what part of the mind isn't constructing narratives? Intentional motion is a narrative, "I have become hungry" is a narrative. What is the non-narrative mind?
@@ffffffffffffffff5840 I agree with that. All of the mind is narrative making. Ergo religion cannot specifically be as encompassing of narrative as the guy in the video indicates.
It IS also about all the other theories he dismissed at the beginning.
Religion is a specific slice of the overall narrative.
The concept of “nothing” cannot have the ability to act, otherwise it would exist as a “potential act” and be one of many things that exist. If the universe came from “nothing” then this nothing would have had the ability to become the universe. But the concept “nothing” as we previously explained, cannot have the ability to act, therefore, the universe could not have come from nothing on its own.
Since there are things that do exist, then “something” must have always existed, because as we just proved, things cannot come from “nothing” on their own.
If time had ever proceeded at an infinite rate, which is like fast forwarding through a motion picture, we would not be here today because all events would have already occurred in a single instant. Therefore, time has always progressed at a finite rate and any mathematician can prove that time could never have progressed over an infinite time interval. The proof goes like this, pick any number no matter how great. You can always add one to it and thereby make it greater in value, therefore you can never reach infinity. And you cannot say that all we need to do is to wait an infinite amount of time and then we would reach infinity, because then you are assuming that you can wait an infinite amount of time. However, this is what you were trying to prove and so that is not proof at all. You cannot assume to be true, that which you are trying to prove to be true otherwise you can prove anything to be true, even that which is false. Therefore, time could not have started an “infinite” time ago and therefore had a beginning a finite time ago.
Since “something” always existed as we previously proved, it had to have existed before time started. Since space and time are one entity called the space-time continuum as Einstein pointed out, then this “something” had to have existed before space and time existed and therefore caused space and time.
Since this “something” existed outside of space and time it cannot be made up of material things, because material things can only exist in space. And this “something” could not be just chaos which has no order, because as we previously proved, something cannot come from nothing on its own, hence order cannot come from pure disorder. Therefore, this “something” had to have had the ability to cause order, space-time, material things, beauty, life, everything in our universe, including our universe and natural laws and rules. Since we call ourselves beings, then we should at least call this “something” a Being, who we call God.
Since only God always existed, and the universe is not made of God as we just proved, then God must have created the universe out of “nothing”. Since “nothing” does not even exist, then God must have infinite Power in order to have created the universe from “nothing”. Since all people desire happiness, then God must have created us to be happy out of love for us.
Naturally, all creatures should love their Creator. For us to love God from our heart, God had to create in us a free-will, because no person can be forced to love, otherwise this would not be true love from their heart. With our free-will, we can choose to do good or bad to our neighbor and this is why there is sin in the world, because some people have chosen to hate God and their neighbor and are only interested in pleasing themselves. God did not create evil, nor does He desire evil, but he does allow sin to happen because He had to form us with a free-will, in order for us to love Him and others from our heart.
Enriching presentation by the neuroscientist. Thanks.
I _knew_ there was an intelligent discussion about religion happening _somewhere_ !! Lo and behold, here it is ❤
In addition to the individual experience McNamara talks about, religion also provides a social experience. Sunday morning is both worship and catching up with friends. Over time we see their children born, grow up and make their way in life. In our modern society this kind of long term face to face contact has withered to be replaced by screens. A third aspect is that overall moral and behavioral norms for society at large comes from religion. As religion fades from our society, so does a sense of having a place in the whole. Depression and suicide rates rise as do groups and individual demi-gods who claim that "the answer" is to defeat those other guys who are, of course, wrong. So, obviously the answer is ... a new, more modern, more inclusive religion?
As someone who grew up very religious/spiritual (I had seminary aspirations), before losing all faith and apostasising: I agree. One of the core (and I'd argue, 'true') values of a religious institution is the community. As you say, it gives believers regular arenas for social interaction, but also, a community you can call upon for help and support.
I'd also certainly hope that religions can be predominantly updated - by nature, institutionalised religion is quite conservative, and this does mean protectionism, toxic communities, and abusive leaders can be slow to be cast out (all at the cost of those being damaged).
As someone who won't return, I do still hope that those remaining faithful can push against the toxic elements that will ALWAYS be there, and create systems that can be predominantly inclusive, diverse, self-regulating, and with genuine servant leaders.
Hopefully something I get to see in my lifetime.
Perhaps not as a religion, but another sort of social gathering event that allows people to form real communities again. Town hall meetings used to be a community activity, but cities have gotten too big for this.
@@maxwellsimon4538 I'm thinking that by diluting the tendency toward religious fervor with a more low key social setting, perhaps we wouldn't split up so. But maybe humans are just so inherently tribal that it won't work that way.
Your point doesn't prove. Yes, community, time spent together, seeing/connecting, etc. are important. Yet all of these behaviors can be (and are) done without religion. Many communities do such socializing with no religious setting. Religion does not give this. Religion is simply an add-on, that itself provides no community. Community comes from people meeting & wanting to meet, for ANY reason (for both non-religious & religious reasons).
Thank you 🙏🏾 ⚡
Wow!! This is extraordinary... Brilliant work....
We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve".
﴿ قُلۡنَا ٱهۡبِطُواْ مِنۡهَا جَمِيعٗاۖ فَإِمَّا يَأۡتِيَنَّكُم مِّنِّي هُدٗى فَمَن تَبِعَ هُدَايَ فَلَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ ﴾
[ البقرة: 38]
I love neuroscience, I wanna be a neuroscientist ❤
Great goal. First, learn to differentiate between "pop psychology" vs. true neuroscience. This video was not neuroscience and gave no neuroscientific ideas. Now there are many people in the field of psychology who falsely claim to be a neuroscientist -- this speaker seems to be one. None of his ideas are steeped in neuroscience, only in speculative psychology. Note all of his references were from the "APA" (psychiatry/psychology organization).
@@keep-ukraine-free
OK, I'll do my researches, thank you.
My goal in Anthropology. Good luck to you!
Edit: You're gonna be a Neuroscientist & I'll be an Anthropologist. Our journeys are gonna be great! Best of luck on your path to success!
@@mrpearson1230
I appreciate your huge support! Thanks a lot, let's keep working!
BTW I'm interested in Anthropology as well ❤
In short, the (or a) point of religion is to make a conversion experience possible. Fascinating.
Nice summary!
So a vehicle? Practices like fasting, introspection, delayed gratification, make up this vehicle?
I love how we are entering this awakening in my time ❤ 🙏🎶♾️
If you play the video backwards, is the reasoning still correct? If so, how do I know which version is correct?
Such an amazing video!
Religions maybe have been a necessity that came from the difficult times of our past and manifested itself through cultures and traditions.
A thousand years ago life was easier than a thousand years before that. Why did we always advance in technology? Why didn't we become the apex predator, and demolished our ecosystem. The Aztecs killed all the animals near them, but somehow they found a way to found out about farming. If we were like any other effective apex predator, the whole ecosystem would've fallen, including ourselves. This cycle happened in every area with fertile land. Except they found a way to farm animals which makes it even more impressive. Why hasn't there been an animal to do what we have done in the past billion year? I believe morality is what led us to overcome these circumstances. If we have a choice to kill our children, or parents we would instinctively try to work harder. I believe the Ibrahimic religions are the ultimate guide to morality, that don't change society to society. If people truly believe in religion we wouldn't have Nazis, or immoral societies. We always have difficult times coming the black plague comes in cycles of 700 years, Yellowstone is overdue an eruption, a comet can just kill us all.
This is not about every day religion. This is about the extreme "salvation" that some go through when disalligned. Our every day experience, when being integrated, involves changes to the model of how the world works with ourselves as the central figure. But when individuals experience a break between their current model and its effectiveness in the world to achieve critically important ends, the disruption can be quite disturbing. Something approaching this disruption and reallignment may be experienced at different points in an individual's life. But it would be more generally true to describe religion as a practice to guide the mind as the interface attempting to resolve adaptive issues which arise between the body and the world. This recognizes that this process arises routinely as new experiences are integrated; attempting to make minor and/or major changes to the model.
It seem then (based on this research) that organized religion exists in a tension between updating the self & shaping the environment, even shaping other people as part of the environment.
On my death bed,, I won't be fearing an imaginary Hell.
exactly.....deepening the mystery
From the perspective of one with numerous experiences I perceive it not as religious but spiritual and as a psychologist see the self-growth or actualization of Maslow as innately human in our necessary ascension to a higher thought being. We are meant to evolve, designed to seek emergence from a lower thought being. Life is about growth without the limitations of an idea or theology. He referenced other worlds. Well, we know there is something or somewhere out there. We feel it in our bones like homesickness.
Wise words ⚡
I got so high i became Dr Strange 😂 and then met Jesus, and we taylor swift switched bodies to confuse Joe Rogans SMT elvis impersonators 😂
🙋🏽♂️ I can also testify to it being self induced. It is a quality of religious settings no matter the religion. The atmosphere, the need, the music, the group participation all contribute. When I used to be a xtian, all the "experiences" I had were definitely self induced.
I am now a secular-buddhist atheist, who respects consciousness (including ESP experiences), especially consciousness possibly being a fundamental energy of the universe. 🕉️☯️💖
If your Christianity was a religion, that defined why you fell out of it..
Christianity isn't a religion but Christ likeness which models a relationship between God and Man.
It's not about the fair of the afterlife, nor the so-called material gains, nor the emotional gains..
It's a relationship, a place of knowings
Yeah I very much relate to this. A lot of the "relational" experiences I had, journaling thinking I was talking to God, I still do now except I know it's me, and yet I'm still able to come to resolutions and find peace.
@@light-pn5kp LOL all xtianity is religion. what we witness is you try to re-negotiate what a religion means i.e the definition of a religion. otherwise no religion is a religion. also all religions re-negotiate themselves with every generation.
lol we went through all that "it's a rln" "it's a knowing" meaningless bs. It's entirely built upon primitive understanding of existence such as blood sacrifices to gods to stop bad things from happening, obvious mythological stories from Israelites e.g. a man stopping the sun "from going down" lol can't believe we subscribed to that nonsense & they then sell it with fear.
There is beauty without religion, all that you seek let it be happiness or success is within you, you are the universe, strangely enough the Greek philosophers, most religions etc have always had that concept. Namaste!
@@perrious4980 💙 yes, exactly. You are the universe, all that you seek is within you.
@@light-pn5kp First you have to prove a god exists. Without that, you're just grasping at straws that feel true.
Hello, great talk. Thank you very much.
One question, is this a ntural process that begins when for instance an external elememt triggers a response in humans, or was is designed gradually by people because it had tjerapeutic effects?
In other words, when did this all begin? The first time that men started to sompose a 'religion', did it happen because that's how human brain responds to life and human inadequecy, or was it like an accident?
Fascinating!!
this is a good explanation for psychedelic use
Lets say this sort of experience is beyond some because of limited capacity and circumstance, is it enough to rely on those who have had them to relay the truth of this experience?
Yeah - the thing he overlooks here is: why would the brain have a decentering process?
The decentering process is an adaptation. Decision making is reduced - either internal or external stimuli heavily influence the brain - the brain adapts and decision making returns. People go through deep stimuli, so called 'powerful experiences', and 'feel changed' afterwards.
This is simply a powerful tool of the brain to adapt to traumatic and impactful experiences.
Religions are self selecting in this manner - those capable of providing the 'changed experience' is what makes people come back and try it. If a ritual didnt change anything - if it didnt make you feel better, people dont come back to try again.
Thus the only religions that continue, are those who connect well into these survival mechanisms that helps us survive throughout evolution.
He is also wrong on his view that religion is a safety blanket. Humans seek cause and effect - reasons why - they seek agency where there is none.
Its these basic from the noise in the bushes being a predator - to the gods punishing you for your misdeeds - gods responsible for elements (god of thunder) or parts of life (fertility goddess). We assign agency where there is none. And from those simple urges, we design systems of rules, myths and beliefs that have shaped stone age culture. And its effects linger today still.
Consider Sanatana Dharma If you're irritated by Ibrahimic religions because you know they can be illogical many times
Main purposes of religion is to understand and realizes our place and positions in the cosmos. Even scientist know but they don't accept and realize and keep exploring infinite. . In simple to have respect for everyone /everything. And thankful for everything is religious. Others are materialistic activities only.
By this definition, science fiction and fantasy are a safe non theistic alternative to religion.
Yesss. Because you know it’s not true
In theory, yes. With the key difference, that specific Sci-Fi stories are written by one person or a small group of people in recent times. Religious teachings are thousands of years old, for a pretty long time have been delivered only by the spoken word and have been transformed and changed over generations. Thats a pretty significant headstart. But I would agree that, in essence, Religions are "just stories", although that is a gross understatement.
@@willoschOG but religious teachings were not always thousands of years old. At some point, they were written by one person or a small group of people in recent times. And they were written down, religious texts, not usually from oral traditions or at least after a very short period of being an oral tradition. The first books of the new testament were writen only 30 years after christ's death. The quran not long after Mohammed's death. The books of the old testament existed only as written texts and were written over 700 years or so but were, at one time, brand new.
Age doesnt' change anything about the relationship.
@@slorrin I would firmly push back on that argument. We undoubtetly live in a time where information is as stored and conserved as it ever was.
Still, the Tanakh for example, was assembled 400 BCE. That means these stories where around for who knows how long. Even after they compiled these stories there was no Gutenberg, I highly doubt everyone had access to these scriptures, and how and if these changed over time. Out of that the Old Testament rose. Dont know how much that changed the text. Translations have been made and there a quite a few examples that show, that literal translation is easier said than done. And thats all before the common era.
I am no theologist, nor a historian, but I think its only logical to conclude, that these texts and teachings were not written at one point and time, but transformed over decades and centuries, by quite a lot of people.
It was first used to control. Now it just keeps us in check
I understand the need for religion to as a security blanket. I don’t understand the need behind disrupting models of the self. Why would humankind need to disrupt models of the self? What is their motivation to do so.
5:41 exactly the truth ❤😢
At 5:14 he mentioned the processes entering secular arenas and creating extremism/fanatics but all the examples on screen were non-secular.
Also I hope/guess it's in the book but i was disappointed that there were no experimental data given as to how his conclusions were reached
People made me afraid questioning my religion. I have faith in it but Few things which makes me uncomfortable about it.
Do you need help with what makes you uncomfortable? Can I email you?
How do those few things affect your individual consciousness?? Because you're inside a simulation and you're only aware of your own existence. Try to be honest to yourself, what really makes you uncomfortable. Even if your closest one (mom/dad) dies or gets brutally killed. You would still find yourself laughing few months/years later. This proves that desire to live coexists with what we call evil. Our purpose is to show gratitude to the supreme being who gave us this desire. After realizing this you will realize that religion (revelation/wahi) has given us a structure to follow the desire. Nothing, absolutely nothing in this world is sacred except the connection between our consciousness and the supreme consciousness.
@@amaniceh I am confused about relationship btwn Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) And aisha. Is there any surah in the Quran mentioning the age of aisha?. I don't wanna listen to hadith cause I believe it's written by humans and it can change over time. Only the Quran I wanna listen to and follow.
@@EnlytendFilosofar I am confused about relationship btwn Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) And aisha. Is there any surah in the Quran mentioning the age of aisha?. I don't wanna listen to hadith cause I believe it's written by humans and it can change over time. Only the Quran I wanna listen to and follow.
Don’t be afraid to question it. That’s healthy. Try finding some new people who are not religious(or less strict in their religion) and talk to them about the things that make you uncomfortable. Or a therapist. My experience is sadly the same as yours, that people of the same religious community is not comfortable having these types of conversations.
Jonathan Haidt says religion is a moral framework. It is a social thing.
Psychedelics were not mentioned in this video, but from my personal experience I can say, that Dr. McNamara is talking about the very similar thing, if not entirely the same.
At minimum this is true. Though I think the spiritual world extends beyond biology.
Deeping the myestry❤❤❤
Thanks!
Thank you so much! We'd love to send you some thank you gifts--just fill out this Google form! forms.gle/DUb8xGVX76sLchFh9
I think it's becoming important to know how to "help" AI "understand" this without it becoming insane. Or we do it or "it/she/he", the AI, will do it on it's own. That can probably be dangerous.
when it comes to decentering/disruption of self-model, does it makes sense to say the religious and the non-religious have "differences in their brains" so to speak? more interesting is what happens to that neurotechnology when a religious person eventually becomes nonreligious, and the other way around
he talk about it, there's big problems physiologically. In the Quran it talks about 3 people, the ones who do righteous, the wrongdoers, and the hypocrites. The worst one of those 3 are the hypocrites, the ones who believe then left the religion, everyday I learn something new about how religion is truly the best guide.
I find it interesting that natural selection gave rise to a biological system that has regions that are associated with "oneness" or "God", its as if there is a physical correlate to spiritually. Which raise many more questions about the nature of realty and if there is a "God".
Every Religion that has the least bit violence in it, should not be defined as some..
Drawing upon the wisdom of Einstein, who famously proclaimed that time is a relative concept, we are reminded that our perception of time isn't linear. The past and the future coexist, intertwined in a fascinating dance of relativity.
Perhaps through the transformative power of meditation, we might find ourselves plunging into the depths of our minds, unraveling layers of consciousness that enable us to catch glimpses of these intertwined timelines. This could allow us to witness the future and the past, not as distinct entities, but as part of a continuous whole.
Could it be that we've lived through these moments before? And that our instincts, those gut feelings that nudge us in certain directions, are actually echoes of our past and future experiences?
These instincts might serve as our internal compass, guiding us towards the future we desire, or steering us away from the ones we'd rather not venture into. So, what are your thoughts on this intriguing concept? Do you think we possess the power to choose the timeline that resonates with our deepest desires?
Funnily enough, it’s not that difficult to engage in decentring.
It’s the literal foundation of selflessness.
Yes, being selfless is so easy for most.
?????????????????????????
When someone asks "does god exist? "Is there an afterlife?" The only answer I can give is "I don't know". I'm comfortable with that
What were you doing before you existed?
We may have to be careful how our decentering is developed. With an eternal soul or atman, we become less concerned about dying. Perhaps leaders of the past developed the idea to create fearless warriors to achieve their ends.
not only religion but various belief systems - altered selves vs altered states? :)
Not sure I am getting this. Is he saying that we create a system of beliefs or rituals so that we can get happiness from that repetition of those rituals until such time as we are unable to prove to ourselves that they are valid so we change them and repeat that cycle over and over again
Another way of looking at religion other than from human's point of view is to understand do all these creations with utmost design needs a creator or not? It is impossible to our mind to think big bang happened, universe is expanding. Yes. Okay cool. So out of every planet out there... Why is earth so special... Again... On and on...
To the very moment right now .. Why? How?
If there's one powerful force, wouldn't that force try to show signs of the creations and existence?
Also, scientifically... Look at all the laws of physics, thermodynamics.. anything and everything. It can't come from NOTHING. That's insane to our brain. If there's a power, we can it God. Ever seeing, all hearing... The knowledge we don't know about. Also... There's a whole world we cant see with our naked eyes. Absurdity? Why does evil exist? Because we are given free will. Why does our consciousness exist even? Even at the youngest age? Kids know what's right and wrong. It's y'all who mixes it up. The creator will sent signs if our submission mindset exists. We are created that way. Who isn't submissive to their own desires? Lust, idols, following a flock, alcohol, vaping, getting high... On and on... You are dependent and indulged and honestly submissive to these things. So guidance is needed. You can go on and on...
If there exist a guidance that isn't changed until this time and age. It's Qur'an. The media is corrupt to showcase it in the worst view but truth comes forth. Its the fastest growing religion today. Scientists are amazed by the miracles mentioned in it. How many more signs does one need? People think prophet Muhammad knew about fetus looking like a leech suspended in the belly? That small? A man ... In the middle of the desert? Who didn t read or write. All the claims and guidance still stand it's virtue to today's people. It's the way of life. It's the truth. Look it up.
People cant accept it because their whims and desires will have to be put aside and given into form of submission to one power/creator/ever existing. And that's bit too much innit?
Look into it. Look into everything. It will be never ending .... That one book can't be decoded even if it takes 50 years for one person.. the more you study, less you know... Thats how vast it is.
Hope and/or Control
This is based on pure Feuerbach! And the metaphysical assumption that there is no deity.
Best knowledge app 👌
Long story short, mankind came up with civilizations in order to soothe 3 fundamental fears. We have society, laws etc so that everyone will be protected by anyone else. We have science in order to understand and overcome the fear of nature. And we have religion in order to overcome the fear of death and pain.
How can u not consider Dr. Ian Stevenson's research work at University of Virginia. Because it's challenging science!?
Confusingly Mysterious
Afterlife concept is made to be fair to those who are being trampled without justice on living world. Afterlife punishment awaits for those who escaped the world punishment.
If only.
I believe there is a hell, I can understand why a creator will make a hell but I don’t see the point of a heaven it seems meaningless what is the point, you can’t do evil , there is no marriage with your partner in life. If you can think or do bad things are you even a living being or in control of yourself. I am a Christian though but I just don’t see heaven as anything that amazing to look forward to and I infact believe it doesn’t exist
@@juliusfishman7222 I cannot forced faith. You can only find it yourself.
Please, give me research results, that proves everything you just said.
So what you're saying is religion isn't a denial of death, it's a form of escapism from the uncertainties and meaninglessness of life. Gotcha!
Spiritual experiences are the main activity the brain was made for. The brain helps create the soul, which will survive and trascend the physical realm, like a womb nourishing a baby, only to watch it leave the safe environment to become an autonomous being (a free spirit).
The title is a bit misleading. His description doesn't really upend as much as provide a nuanced update. What I took away from this is that religious feelings/thoughts can be very powerful (he describes how it "rewires" previous perceptions) but rituals were created to channel these into behaviours beneficial to society. This raises further concerns about how others with malicious motives could hijack this feature in our biology.
It doesn't explain how or why the non-religious, like me, view the world the way we do and how or if we are that much different than the religious. Furthermore, as many others have noted here, does every person who is religious experience these things? It's pretty clear to me that most people learn their religion from their parents, very few people change or adopt a religion different than their parents. Likewise for political beliefs. Just ask the average person why they believe what they believe and most will struggle for an answer. There's a big evolutionary survival benefit to listening to your parents however flawed their views are.
Lastly, I have also heard/read about other theories that religions were ritualized explanations of how the world works and the religious experience is a thought virus due to our imperfect thought processes. Cognitive biases, and a whole host of other fallacies would contribute to this misunderstanding. While I've never tried magic mushrooms, what people have told me about that seems eerily similar to Patrick's description of the religious experience. That's from this lay person's perception.
Our human perceptions are limited. Therefore, unless you have already been on a spiritual path, seeking the Reality of THAT which gave form and consciousness to all creation, you will be bound down by the Ego (the guardian of individuality).
EGO (the guardian of individuality) sorely limits the breadth of our human perceptions and vision, since it forces our consciousness to focus exclusively on our own happiness and survival.
It is only when the soul of a person first sends out a message to its human consciousness that there is more to life than "the self," that the individual begins to want to discover more about life and about the Origins of life.
As the consciousness of the human mind is gradually woken up from its long subordination to the Ego (the guardian of individuality), so does one begin to question much that lies beyond his present knowledge. At the beginning of one's quest for greater knowledge of the unknown, they will probably be drawn to a religion, since it would seem, humanly speaking, that a religion must hold within their wisdom and teachings, the secrets of the Source of Life.
This subservience to Religious human domination, claiming to know the secrets of the universe, is a good kindergarten for the opening consciousness of Ego-directed minds.
My dear departed, grandma had it right when she used to say to me “Danny, people = shit”
i like that
It's understandable to question the role of religion in today's world, especially with advancements in science and our understanding of human nature. The idea of relying on ancient beliefs and practices can seem outdated, particularly when considering the vast array of knowledge available to us.
Religion, with its roots in ancient thinking and traditions, may indeed raise concerns about its relevance in modern times. It can be a source of misunderstanding, division, and even harm when taken too literally or used as a tool for control.
In today's age of information and scientific exploration, many find solace and meaning in secular practices, mindfulness, or philosophical frameworks that don't rely on religious dogma. These approaches can provide a sense of community, personal growth, and self-transformation without the need for traditional religious beliefs.
Religion is no longer necessary in our modern world!
Its only a matter of time for Jesus to be forgotten or replaced by a new religion as it has happened throughout human history.
We see proof of this in the ancient civilizations that also had their own unique languages, religion, culture and technology, but have been lost to time, time withers all.
The difference with science is that even if its forgotten through time, it can be rediscovered.
Thank God for spirituality.
الحمد لله.
But don’t take your faith too seriously
Wow Patrick
Well, I don't understand religious people at all.. I understand this explanation about how they think.. but thinking like them, no. I have never been religious, even though I had to go to church until I was old enough to resign..
You do not have to think of it as religious*** Think of updating your feeling of sense of self in the world
Ask yourself what is a human being?
Ask yourself what is being in the world feel like?
Science can never prove God but it also can't disprove it
@@ardentenquirer8573 I don't need to, I'm happy as is.. I don't need gods, I never have. I can place myself into the universe, I've taken mind altering drugs, I'm an open minded atheist..
@@fazlu1758 God of the gaps.. the gaps are getting smaller and smaller..
@@einienj3281 being atheist is equally as foolish as being religious.
For me, religion brings a sense of community, socializing around a belief. It also acts as a worthy coping mechanism against hardships, when all other human defenses seem to fail. When it becomes an institution helmed by humans, it can become corruptible and fanatical.
It’s clear to me that all amazing human achievements and altruistic efforts in the past have originated from the sheer undoubted belief that there was a fundamental purpose for our collective suffrage. I find it so sad that faith is being eroded by science and that there’s isn’t an obvious meta-physical God science can just identify as infallibly real
Then you lack foresight for the reality of what religion is from you subjective belief. As it stand today, religion is relic of the repulsive past. their stains is etched in the tapestry of humanity, a wanton façade for exaggerated temporal actions into mythical apotheosis. It's convoluting, credulous, and captivating. as Humanity never learns, that we learn from story, continue the story, and delude it to the point your doing, a subjective notion of what is axiomatically worthless for the manipulative things it bring.
@@Cardioid2035 Yes, religion can motivate people to do great things yet it can also make people do horrific things in the name of goodness. Religion is a tribal group identity which unites the tribe and can dehumanize the others.
Religion is always about power and control!
Çok çok güzel ilginç
1:55 isn't that what AIs like ChatGPT do?
What if religion no longer a belief.
If we’re being intellectually honest with ourselves, we’d admit that Atheism is simply another attempt to ‘know’ for certain how the universe works and what happens at death. It’s metaphysical certitude posing as reason.
Uhh .. no you are mistaking scientific understanding for being comparable to sets of myths.
Regardless... We are monkeys with shoes