ROUND COLUMN MILL PART 2 (Grizzly, Wrong Foo, Harbor Freight) LASER HEAD ALIGNMENT... MARC LECUYER
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- čas přidán 25. 05. 2015
- This video (PART TWO OF TWO) introduces us to problems inherent to round column mills and shows how to work around them to get the most out of these inexpensive bench type milling machines. More specifically, we will be checking the accuracy of the holes produced in the part 1 of this video and we will also be looking at ways (such as laser alignment) to maintain head alignment when raising or lowering the head. As for all thatlazymachinist videos, this video is aimed at the novice machinist who wishes to develop proper basic work skills. MARC LECUYER, thatlazymachinist.com
Really enjoy your videos Marc. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us! I have a laser level that projects a crosshair beam. Would that work for alignment if I projected it overhead onto the ceiling if I mounted the laser centerline onto the front of the head?
Hi William! The main reasons for projecting out to a wall are: #1 I am aligning the heads rotational position relative to the column, if however your head can rotate around the Y axis (yaw) (and that is what you want to aligne), projecting to the ceiling could work but the second reason could be a problem. #2: Distance is the name of the game, if your ceiling is only four or five feet from the laser, the alignement will be less accurate. If however you want to aligne around the Y axis (yaw), the technique that I use will work as long as you project the laser to a wall that is beside the machine rather that in front of it. In short, the ceiling will work for alignement of the heads rotation around the Y axis (yaw)(if your machine has a rotating head (mine does not)) but using a side wall would be better and I do not think that the ceiling will work well for the rotation around the column. I hope that this helps, thanks for watching my (little retirement project) videos and thanks for a great question, Marc P.S. If this doesn't help let me know and I will try again.
THATLAZYMACHINIST makes perfect sense Marc, thank you. Teaching myself machining is my retirement project and your videos are helping a great deal!
All round column mill owners thank you Marc! Three very basic yet effective ways to align your quill quickly and effectively. Thanks for this series! Zip~
I just watched both of the videos, really interesting, I planned to buy a roundcolum mill but now it is obvious that it is not for me. I am a beginner but I think I skip the hassle of z allignmet. You probabbly saved me some money, thanks.
Thanks Marc, very good info (as always), I am sure some of these tricks will come handy when aligning my drill press...
Outstanding, I have a lathe/mill combination which has a round column mill and your well explained video has given me much hope for the future. I intend to set up a vertical column with matching dovetails attached to the wall of my workshop and a fixed point on the mill head. A sliding vertical level in the hope of being able to raise the head and maintain accuracy. I can use your method to check my progress as I go until it is set up as accurate as I can get. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Thank you Marc, another great informative video.
Thanks for the helpful videos. Life is better when you let your hair down. If I can ever afford to get a mill, it will have to be a round column.
Your background note is solid gold.
I don't volontier my opinion very often but if someone ask for it they just might get what they are entitled to.
That saying means more today than it did 6 years ago.
Hi Marc. Like many here, I have the same machines in my shop as yours. (My vise, magnifying lamp and air-rifle are almost the same too!) Good info for setting up the mill, this is what I have been looking for. My pillar-drill suffered from the quill-action not being parallel to the column. This meant holes wandered as they were drilled. The solution was to drill and tap two pairs of holes in top and bottom of the head at 90 degrees to each other, then fit 5/16 bolts with lock-nuts. These are used to centre the quill in it's hole. Lightly greased brass 'buttons' at the end of the bolts prevent scoring of the quill; the locknuts hold the bolts accurately. Now I have to buy a laser, thanks.
Thanks for posting this. very helpful.
Fantastic series! Thank you so much for the information... Fred
Very good advise! There are some inexpensive mills with vertical ways (not much more in todays money than the round)... I got by with a round column fine for a few years then got a near give away deal on an old but well cared for Bridgeport and more tooling than one could dream having! Now the other mill sets waiting for the bigger shop to be built... In the end it all boils down to need and time spent being the driving forces,,, oh and money.... Thank you for sharing you excellent ideas/methods with us! :o)
O,,,
Thank you Marc. I have the Harbor Fright verson of this machine. I like how you spelled it Wrong Fu (Rung Fu). All made in the same plant in China.
Very informative. Thanks!
Thanks for showing this!
Round column mill/drills are pretty good drill presses, and can kind of mill a little too. That's how I feel about mine.
So this is what that The Fixx song Saved By Zero was talking about. Who knew an 80’s pop group was so into machining?
Very interesting, Marc! I think my lathe is going to be in the way if I try to do this with my mill but nevertheless, an interesting method. You always provide excellent information, method and procedures that can only come from an experienced professional like yourself... then there's 12:45 :-) Thanks for the comic relief!
Thank you Marc for your time and energy on this. Loved the humor and methodologies. I know dowel pins are cheap and cheerful ways of securing and testing (use them a lot) but thought it might have been better to use gauge pins for the holes because they are known and accurate. Think we might try your laser method but curious how you determined CL distance between post and spindle...edges (ID) and 1/2 diameters? Have to watch this one again cause I got to laughing at your continuity fun!! Terrific! ~PJ
That wig is the best thing I have seen in my life LOL
It's the "A" hole guy! Great videos! He also made a B hole with his mill.
Thanks for the video.. . I'm very new to a round column drill/mill. I don't aspire to work within a thousandth of an inch. Just looking to extend my ability to fix and create. Mine is a 1981 Enco but I believe was badged by others as well. My first task was taking a very crappy base.. made is less crappy...and added some leveling legs and cast iron wheels to move it occasionally. I'd like to do a legitimate assessment and serviceing to get it ready for the future. I hope to get a video up on it and maybe you could indulge me and take a look. I'd appreciate your advice.
Thank You for sharing
Dear Marc, thank you very much
Lesson: 70
I am late to the show, but I really enjoyed it.
My thoughts on the laser. If you put a mirror on the opposite wall and bounce the beam back to the wall behind the mill you have 3 advantages. First you double the distance, actually a couple of feet more than double. Second the angle is doubled which means the spot will move twice as far. And finally you will be facing the spot while you make the adjustment instead of turning around. Combined, this will make achieving accuracy easier.
Your mill btw, is the same as mine. I would also suggest looking up "The mighty wrong foo" by Cuppa Joe. He modified his mill to cure the alignment problem.
I too have an K&F MD 30 column mill much like yours. Good info. I also have a very similar floor drill press although mine is a Jet. I have forty thousandths play between the base and the column where it emerges from the base casting. All bolts are tight. Is there any way to get this play (which of course increases by the time you are at table height) out of the column? I traded off my old Taiwan (from the seventies) floor drill press which was rock solid thinking the Jet would be a step up but am not so sure now. I am extremely glad to see someone who is doing videos with the machinery many of us have. Keep up the good work. Doug
Hey, Mark. Nice series on the mill/drill/round column mill. As an owner of one of those, you have given a few tricks to try for those times when the longest tool option doesn't work. I've gotten some ER20 collets with a collet chucks of different lengths to help out. I wish they made a coax indicator that was a bit stubbier than most models I've seen for those times you just can't use a last word indicator.
ILGopher I feel your pain! I got a coaxial thinking it a dream come true until I found I can only use it 1 time out of 10 due to it's size.
Key phrase, 'good quality drill press'. So many people think all drill presses are created equal.
Thanks. I have the same mill. I was thinking of drilling two vertically spaced holes and removable t pins in the side casting behind the quill "spider" wheel, all the way thru into the column tube. I'd pull both pins, raise the head up til I aligned one head hole with the lower column hole. Insert one pin into the newly aligned holes and using the halfway thru hole of the casting above as a guide, drill thru to the column. I'd repeat this process several times every two inches. The initial problem is the first two holes must be perpendicular to the column. I can use a dial to align with each step up. Can you help me with ideas, pitfalls and solutions. I know it is not super accurate but it would be much faster. I could scratch a scribe a line into the casting as I crank the crank, that should be perpendicular to the column? Edit new idea, just one larger hole and use the laser technique to lock in place to drill to place successive holes along the column tube. That should work.
What about just a mechanical position? Like a shallow reamed drill hole in the bottom of a slot where you can use a drill chuck to position/insert a pin into the hole.
Hello Marc and thankyou for taking the time to do these informative videos. Ive just bought the Axminster zx30m which is the same machine I think over here in the UK. I have no comprehension of how far the lazer would move across the black do if the head was say 2 thou adrift from its original position at a position on the wall 10 feet away. Does that make sens Regards Stuart Bell in England.
Have you considered trying a mirror on the far wall and projecting the laser back to the wall by the mill?
i would like to see the same holes cut with a dro mill and see how close they are then
You’d be surprised at how accurately this machine can work. It’s all in the knowledge. I make repetitive parts, with high accuracy on a regular basis. Would I prefer a Bridgeport? Sure. But not everyone can install a Bridgeport. I’ve also highly modified my machine over the 22 years I’ve had it. Adding a three axis DRO will allow highly accurate positioning without all the frustration and hassle. They’re pretty cheap these days as well.
would it be possible to cut a grove down the length of column and then drill and tap the head for a bolt that would go through the head and inside the groove where it could be loosened just enough so that the head could be raised and lowered with out rotating around the column ?
I have a Jet mill that looks allot like yours. I am having some issues with it and was hoping you could help with advise?
I've thought about putting a laser on my column mill but I don't think I need it. My column has a keyway and there is a removable key if you want to spin the head. There is quite a bit of play in the keyway but I found I could just bump the head up to the key every time I position it and I am as close as I'll ever get with the laser.
Thanks for another educational video, Marc. For home machining, 1 to 2 thou is pretty accurate. After all, you're not machining turbine blades for jet engines! Thanks again for taking time from your day to make these videos. I know it's a lot of work: editing, perhaps reshooting a segment, etc.
Have a good one!
Dave
+Swarf Rat A lot of people do not understand accuracy as it relates to machining. When I worked in a tool and die shop we worked to +0.003 on all of our cutting machines. We'd get within that, then after the parts were heat treated we'd grind them to better than +-0.0001. We never expected ten thousands of an inch accuracy out of lathes, or mills. That's ridiculous. Cutter surface marks are going to be deeper than that. But I see myriads of Internet home shop weenies crying about 0.0001 on their machine tools. They're morons!
So you are calling me a weenie and a moron?
You, sir, can go fuck yourself!
Swarf Rat
I did not know you worried about ten thousandths tolerances on a mill, but if you are then yes, you have no clue. That is not how it works.
Why the hell don't you go troll some else's site?
YES!!!!!
Hello Marc, nice to met you ! I'm a small business owner in your area and have just acquired and am rebuilding a Harrisson VS330TR lathe, same vintage as the ones you seemed to of had at school. We will be replacing our well aged Colchester Student 1800 with it. What are you opinions of this machine and do you think it will make a good machine for daily shop use ? I have some trepidation as to the roller chain in the head stock and it would be interesting to know how they held up in your classroom environment. Merci d'avance !!
Can you tell me the correct color paint for that rong fu green??? I want to retouch mine.. Thanks
Hey Marc, just found your post I have a HarborFreight mill -drill machine wanting to follow your lead on y stop. What is the diameter of flat washers did u use?
I have a mill that was built on the same drawings as your mill except for the placement of the on/off switch and the material of the belt cover. I hate having to move the head and I will get a laser and see if I can make alignment quicker. I also hate moving the belts. I set mine on the workbench instead of a platform so I have to climb a ladder for the belt changing fun. Oh almost forgot, I had to Loctite the spindle nut to keep it from coming off. You have that problem? Thanks for the video.
Marc: I enjoy your videos. I have learned a lot in a short time frame. Thanks. I have a round column Mill an Enco 105-1110. I was wondering if I used a magnet and a post with an indicator to locate my mill head before I raise it. Then as I move the mill head up, I return the head against the indicator until I dial the exact same reading that I started with. Is this a possible quick and dirty way to stay in the approximate location before I moved the head? This would be my version of the vise grip procedure you presented in this video. The change would entail using one of those magnetic posts with a dial indicator to locate the original head postiion, then after the head movement, I would change the head postion in order to dial the identical beginning reading. Do you see problems? Thanks again, Glenn
It should work fine the only thing that I would be concerned about is that sometimes magnets slide. Thanks for watching and be safe! Marc
how about your lazer shinning on a point on your table ?
I have a video called drill press table swing clamp. You might find it interesting.
First class as always!
One thing i have learned in life is never judge a book by its cover !
Sure the RF 30 series if mill are a budget option but that round column is hiding a dirty secret, you can swivel the head around either side of centre and this can allow you to get right to the end of longer pieces being machined especially when you have run out of X axis table travel.
I sometimes get a giggle out of some of the videos on youtube as there will be some guy using a bridgeport to make a simple wobbler engine - yes i know every one wants a bridgy including myself but how many home shop guys ever use that machine to its fullest capability ?
In all seriousness out of the two mills i own ( RF46 dovetail column geared head and an X2 SEIG with belt conversion ) i would use the little SEIG most often as it is convenient and nimble for most of the small engines i make but if i need to remove a lot of material or drill/ bore larger holes the the HF46 gets the nod .
Looking forward to your next video Marc , until then keep well !
Hi Marc, You obviously didn't live long enough to see the Kuklunk... Kuklunk... method, it's like method number 3, with the spindle running... ;-)))
Salut Jaques, for reasons unknown it is impossible for me to answer your comment about the round column mill in the comment section of the video, since this answer is shared on Google+ I am pasting a copy of your original comment so others will understand my answer.
"Jacques Poirier Il y a 1 heure · COMMENTAIRE LIÉ
Very interesting videos, seem to be on academic side, I believe that specifically in Quebec, there is an interest if you could double them in French or make French subtitles available as these videos are produced in Quebec schools"
First let me thank you for a great comment that permits me to promote all my videos, French and English alike. I live in Quebec but some of my videos were recorded in Ontario Canada at La Cité college in Ottawa but most of my videos are recorded in my home shop in Cantley Quebec and none of them were recorded in a Quebec school. All my videos exist in French and in English, if you would like to you can go to my bilingual webpage THATLASYMACHINIST.COM to get links to all my CZcams videos. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to write, Marc L'Ecuyer THATLAZYMACHINIST
I like the boom box will you sell it to me? it reminds me of brake dancing in the 80s'
Is it you who has a u tube about squaring up and shimming the column in relation to the table top? I need to see the procedure.
Hi Wayne! Here is a link to the video. czcams.com/video/YNeRIzr5IPo/video.html Remember that you can easily find all of my videos on my free website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM Thanks for watching, Marc
Hi mate.
Thanks for those video clips. I was tossing up about a machine like that and an old kneed machine. Here in West Australia, machines are hard to get or very pricey. So this has helped me making an informed decision.
With the alignment, one could fix a pointer at the back of the machine, and make a scribed mark on the wall behind the machine, and use that for reference I'm sure. Or even a straight edge, used as a stop. The pointer could be made so it can be removed quickly. What do you say?
Anyway Thanks,
Marcel.
+Marcel Timmers I have a round column mill/drill. Is it the best mill on the planet? Not by a long shot. Can I get it to do what I need to do? Yes I can. If you can get an old knee mill in great shape, and you can move it to where you need it, and you have the power for it, or a 3 phase converter, hey, that's great. Managing all of that can be a complex puzzle sometimes though. Easier for some folks to accomplish than others.
Thanks for that mate. I have still not been able to find anything as yet. They slipped through my fingers a few times now.
A rifle scope or transit would be a lot more accurate if you could get behind the machine to use it.
Very interesting videos, seem to be on academic side, I believe that specifically in Quebec, there is an interest if you could double them in french or make french subtitles available as these videos are produced in Quebec schools
Tomorrow, when you get up, stand a lil closer to your razor.
Tyrod 01 Tomorrow, if I get up I will think about it. But I doubt it. Thanks for watching and be safe! Marc L'Ecuyer