Owner Wants To Cut Her Noisy Dog's Vocal Chords😭🔉 | Full Episode | It's Me or The Dog
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2023
- These two tiny terrors bully every dog they meet. They instigate terrible symphonies of barking, they nip and cause fights with bigger dogs and they refuse any attempt at house-training. At home, their high-pitched barking has led to dirty looks and complaints from the neighbors. Tamara is so terrified of losing her apartment that she's considering having her veterinarian clip the dogs' vocal chords so they can't bark at all!
US Season 4 Episode 10
#ItsMeOrTheDog #VictoriaStilwell #Positively
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This is wild. How does this woman have a business around dogs all day and literally understand nothing about dog behavior 🤦🏽♀️
It's like those teachers or childcare providers who work with children all day, but they're terrible with kids😟
People spend allot of money on there dogs she has the business for money
@@RainbowFlowerCrowIt’s a lot like special education. The majority of educators in the field are in it because they have their own children, siblings, cousins, nieces/nephews, or grew up with neighbors who are disabled, and they’ve witnessed the very serious pitfalls in special education and went into the job passionate to make a difference, and willing to put in the hard work. And then there’s the people who got into the field thinking it would be an easy paycheck. I can always sniff them out, and will do everything in my power to keep my children away from them, nothing is worth the potentially irreparable damage that can be caused by allowing people who really don’t care at all be responsible for vulnerable children and animals.
It’s very much the same with people who are drawn to work with animals. Most love animals, most are passionate about it and willing to put in the work because they actually care for animals well being- but there’s always going to be some who foolishly think working with animals is a way to make easy money, and those people can go to hell.
How on Earth someone without basic understanding or respect of dog training is allowed to run a daycare is beyond me.
She shouts at the dogs - but the dog isn’t allowed to bark??? 😡
Plus, she's so proud of being able to control her day care dogs, but she thinks yelling at dogs is the way to train/control them.
She's ignorant about this, and she's ignorant about debarking, and she's apparently made no attempt to take even the most basic steps to educate herself-- for the sake of her occupation, the day care dogs and customers, or her own dogs.
She seems to be an educated, or at the very least, literate, woman, why hasn't she read a book/done some research? She seems not to have even googled the basics.
Based on her "I can't be kicked out of my ("her?" -- not "our?" Right up there with "I"--- not we-- "just got a new couch," and "I'll TELL Max"-- not ask him-- "to bring the dogs here" ) apartment, so I have to do something"-- i.e., debark her dogs-- I'm glad they don't have a colicky baby; I can just see her snipping the baby's vocal chords because nothing else stops the crying, and she "can't get kicked out of her apartment."
Topping it all off, for me, is her statement, "I don't have time for dogs that disrupt the energy," a remark with so little understanding of, among other things, the human's role/responsibility in interacting with dogs, that it would be bizarre coming from anyone, let alone someone whose job is caring for dogs.
Maybe she should be "de-barked"🤔
And it can cause more issues when you shout at the dog. It's more likely to have the dog continue barking than stopping.
Right. What makes her think she can have a voice but not a dog?
That woman can't control her own dogs--but are her customers aware of how she may be breaking the training of their dogs?
Exactly! When they see this episode they definitely won’t be leaving their dogs there again most likely. This woman is terrible with animals, clearly uneducated & should not be running a doggie daycare & ruining other people’s training. What idiots these people are.
The important thing is she reached out and asked for help and she got it. It takes time to train yourself into train the dogs. I think she's doing good. Much better than she was.
Yeah I saw her lose it with a couple of them at the beginning. She doesn't have the right temperament to be working with other people's dog's let alone her own.
@TakeTheRide I agree. Change takes time. And she reached out to get help. I think they're going to be just fine. 🙂
@@TakeTheRide That wasn't the point of what was said. The concern was her breaking the training of the people's dogs she is watching with her behavior around them. She physically swatted one of the dogs in the start of the video. That's not her dog to be doing that and you shouldn't lay hands on your dog either. The worry is she is undoing her clients dog's training.
Tamara seems more like she enjoys dogs in _theory._ Like she loves the cuteness and unconditional love they give and the fact she can train them, but _nothing else about them._ She's a _control freak_ who _shouldn't_ be allowed to own dogs.
I agree
Or run a dog daycare for that matter… if I walked in and saw the person that I trusted my dog with *screaming* at them? I would be pissed 😡
Yeah... "NO BARKING, NO BARKING!" fancy paying good money for someone to yell at all the dogs all day. When you've got a bunch of dogs together they are undoubtedly going to bark that's how they communicate! She seems totally clueless about dog behaviour let alone how to treat them.
Yeeeeees, it’s like “I love children but only when they are quiet cute and convenient”
She can’t train an ant let’s be honest 🤦♀️ If she could she wouldn’t need professional help from Victoria period. She doesn’t need to own dogs let alone all animals including sea monkeys (shrimp) for all I care. I can’t stand to hear or see this woman bc she’s an abuser to animals.
the way she handled the springer spaniel at her daycare alone would keep me from taking my personal dogs there.
who would ever want to do that? Cutting out a dog's vocal chords is the worst thing you would want to do. It's cruel too
And what do you think of people who declaw their cats? I am horrified that so-called veterinarians do those things to animals, they should lose their license permanently.
Barking is just noise pollution, it’s cruel to force neighbors to listen to it
@@sodapopjones260people are noise pollution
I agree, I rescued a show dogs & his vocal chords were cut....so sad😢😢😢😢😢
@@sodapopjones260You sound like the type that would say the same thing about human babies too!
"NO BARKING!"
dogs: "SHE DO BE BARKING! LETS BARK!!"
Dogs dont understand, they see shouting as barking.
@@zoethedomesticatedrat4389 exactly
Yeah I was like, (sarcasm) “But _of course! More_ loud noise will _definetly_ stop all the loud noises. Great logic, sis.”
I've been working with dogs all my life, I couldn't imagine how anyone could leave their dog in her care!!
I certainly wouldn’t🙄
Any vet that would do that, should be prosicuted in prisoned and loose there licence.
Prosecuted* imprisoned* lose* their* License*
Jeez
@@princess_thanos lmfaoooo
So many people use the wrong word “loose instead of lose. Loose means a screw is loose. Lose means something is lost.. look up the in dictionary
@@princess_thanoshahahahha yoooo😂
@@princess_thanos Actually, there's no reason for licence to be capitalised there, licence is spelled correctly in non-U.S. English, and getting on people's cases on youtube for poor spelling and/or grammar is ignorant because it ignores people who have extenuating circumstances like people speaking English as an additional language (second, third, etc.) or people with dyslexia and learning disabilities.
I can’t imagine how her business does after this episode.😅😅
I thought the same thing 😂 I’m also a dog daycare owner and I would NEVER talk about something as ignorant as debarking
Well the episode was 2011-2012 and the business is still open, so it must have done alright
@@memememeow yeah probably had enough regulars that it didn’t impact her. That or the show is completely faked
@@carolinelewis6798I don’t know, I feel like this show compared to the millions that are out there is less likely to he staged due to the fact that dog training is a process that everyone can very easily go through if they have a rowdy dog. It’s also more made for educational purposes alongside entertainment and Victoria seems to be genuine in true in her methods. Suffice to say that there may or may not be some staged *parts* but I doubt there’s very many at all and if there is, they’re usually indicated to be part of the training. For example: Having someone ring the doorbell repeatedly or have someone walk their dog parallel to the other.
I’d likely say that what you stated first is the more potential outcome. She had enough business flow to keep afloat but the show also made a point to prove that her ideas were heavily misguided and dangerously ignorant, allowing her room to grow and become a better caretaker. She was willing to learn and I think people are more willing to forgive if they know a person is doing their best to do things the right way
@@memememeowit’s still open but is it still the same owner?? That’s the real question
imagine running a doggy day care and yelling at the dogs to quit barking🤦♀️
Max is such a sweet man with so much love. I'm glad Tamara seems to be getting more comfortable and less uptight
You dont want the barking but you get 2 maltese😂😂😂😂
It's like not wanting to have a mud hole in the garden but getting 2 pigs.. Makes no sense. 😂 Every dog barks but small breeds are well known for being yappy 😂
If you don't want the barking, don't get a dog period. That's just how they communicate. Of course, the level of barking is dependent on the personality of the dog, I've had a dog that was so quiet that I have been accused of debarking him. But it's just like how you shouldn't have a baby then get mad when it cries
"I cannot have my dog bite another dog" keeping the dogs on a long leash and apparently just waiting everyone else to go around them
She is so ENTITLED
It does make me wonder when previous episode people have blamed being Italian on their yelling and hyper behaviour and yet here's an actual Italian owner who's not the 1 yelling. Finally.
10th generation Americans love to blame every negative personality trait on the fanciest 2% on 23&me
Choosing to debark your dogs instead of training or even rehoming them is the most insanely self-centered thing I’ve heard 😂 wild.
It is called vivisection, and I HATE IT!!!!
but she chose training
I am stunned that she screams “no barking” and thinks this will not rilled up the dogs even more!
"I have to listen to woman now😖" got me DIEING on the grounds of hell 😂
In my experience, that's mission: impossible for an Italian man 😂
"For my own safety" XD
I’m happy that Tamara and Max are willing to allow Victoria to teach them. Everyone wins.
i remember when i was like 12 my mom had bought a Pappion from someone and the breeder had her vocal cords cut ( long before we got her) but i remember her trying to bark and it was like a mouse sneezing... I can remember feeling so bad for her and how horrible that was. even at 12 I knew this was a horrible evil thing to do to a dog. I still feel that way. thank you victoria for saying it should be illegal because it should along with tail docking and cutting ears.
I wanna give you both a thumbs up and a thumbs down - the thumb up is for your post, the thumb down is for the brutality of your dog's situation.
@@PoetTornado2022 I felt so bad for that poor little dog. I refuse to buy from a breeder now I rescue all of my dogs from shelters.
Ear cropping and tail docking at least has some use for LGDs to prevent serious injury, although I agree it should be banned for dogs that are just pets. Debarking though has zero reason to exist, I'm shocked it's not illegal everywhere
Ear cropping, Tail docking, debarking, declawing of cats! Don’t American vets have any moral principles? Is it all about $$$
People are so rude in the comments. This owner clearly learned how to better take care of her dogs. She was open to learning and she did. That's one of the best qualities a human can have.
Y’know, despite having the issues with the dogs Max and Tamara seem like a really good couple, they had disagreements for sure but they were never toxic towards each other, I’ve seen tons of couples on this show have very angry arguments with each other over the dogs or chew each other out over their disagreements, but Max and Tamara never really did, when they did express their disagreements it always seems to be in a calm, even kinda playful way, and to me that’s how you know they have a good relationship, because a couple that can express these things without actually getting toxic towards each other has a really healthy relationship
❤
The fact that they tried to yell back at the person who was upset that these rats tried to bite her dog, you don’t get to yell back when your dogs are the problem and not the passerby’s dog.
“We might get kicked out from their barking!” *screams at them* also her husband on the moped with the baby carrier with the two dogs took me out 💀
I'm so glad they were BOTH willing to listen and learn. I think their lives, the humans and the dogs, will be much happier if they follow through with what they've learned from Victoria. ❤
I thought I was the only one who does the "thank you" when the dog barks at the door to acknowledge what they've told me. My housemates don't do it so they've all but untrained my dog from getting quiet from this command.
Hardest part of dog training is idiots not respecting the work your putting in and spoiling it
@cassandrakemara8755 yep, and I will be getting a puppy within the next 2 years. I will be not be holding back on verbal filters with housemates if they cause issues during that time. They've lived with my dog long enough that the simple things shouldn't be a problem anymore (even though they still are).
Max is truly a lovely man, when he said thank you to Victoria and played around it was so wholesome 😂
Ikr I like him. I wonder what he sees in her 🙃
Debarking and declawing should be banned world wide.
For anyone reading this: I know that dog training can be difficult sometimes, but you're doing great. Keep up the good work, and your dog (and your own sanity) will thank you for it! ❤️💕
Dogs behaving badly or loudly is really people not having a clue.
Thank you, Victoria, for showing us and teaching us valuable lessons again and again💐
I don't understand why people buy dogs and expect them not to bark
People actually silence a dog’s voice, and it’s ok? 😢
Yes. We are stewards of the animals. God said
I bet her neighbors would be relieved if she'd actually gone through, most people don't want to listen to a dog barking.
@@sodapopjones260What you mean is you don't want to listen to dogs barking. I don't want to listen to kids screaming and screeching, so can I advocate for their vocal cords to be cut?
@@littlesparrowwitch im not the only one who doesn't want to listen to dogs barking, they wouldn't have debarking surgery or shock collars if only one person had a problem with it.
You can advocate for anything you like, but humans have rights and dogs don't have the same ones. Humans need their vocal cords to function in society, not having them is a legitimate disability. The overwhelming majority of dogs serve no function beyond the emotional needs of their owners and the sound they produce is equally functionless and a downright nusience.
We do not validate the opinions of cruel people who make an animal suffer for their own convenience.
I read the comments before the end of the show, and there was lots of hate for her so I thought it was going to end bad. BUT she worked hard for her dog’s happiness in the end. Sometimes hard work pays off, and she should be super proud of herself for following through. The last scene with her enjoying the dogs and them enjoying her made me smile. Well done!
I would NEVER trust that lady to care for my dogs in a doggy day care
Max is so soft spoken too there’s no authority he’s even so sweet when he does the thank you 😊
It feels like the lady only cares about her self she keeps saying "The dogs barking could get me evicted", "It's a liability issue for me". If she is so worried that her dog is causing her a possible liability issue she should have trained them properly sooner. She never said "I'm worried she'll get hurt" or "I worry they get stressed out" she never says anything that communicates to me that she really cares about her dogs.
Seriously - de-barking? Have we not learned not to mutilate our animals to suit us yet? Docking, de-clawing and de-barking are just brutal.
All are illegal in UK and I'm glad! Until this episode I had never heard of debarking and it horrified me
This woman should never be in dog care. She really doesn’t have a clue
Wait... It SHOULD BE illegal? Means: Right now it is legal in the USA to debark your dog? It's the first time I have ever heard of something cruel like that. But then agian it's humans so I'm not really suprised.
The US is one of the few countries in which debarking and declawing cats is legal (not all states) completely (and rightly) illegal here in the UK and Western Europe.
Why declawing cats?
I just feel like it’s a different issue.
If it’s like declawing them leaves them in pain, sure that’s a reason but I feel like the 2 issues are apples and oranges.
@@SupHapCak because both are about mutilating another living creature for human convenience! Also how would we know if debarking leaves a dog in pain and distress - it's ability to communicate to us has been destroyed!
@@littlesparrowwitch That’s a very good point. The dog can no longer do ANYTHING to express any amount of pain, seeing as they can no longer bark or even WHIMPER.
Poor babies. I’d never in my life debark a dog or declaw a cat. People who encourage that are horrendous, imo.
@@SupHapCak when you declaw a cat you are amputating a joint in their paws. It's like if a little kid had their fingertips cut off because they were scratching. Cats can get their nails clipped just like humans.
You.. you run a dog daycare but you can't handle barking??
This is so true
Not her, her neighbours, can't handle the barking. I wouldn't be a fan of it either. No, I much prefer larger dogs like my own Labrador who’s hardly ever barked in 12.5 years. He communicates by moving around a lot, pacing, zoomies, tapdancing, bouncing, when he was younger, he would gallop rather than run during play. He also communicates and gets attention by shaking his head several times, facial expressions, body language, moving towards or away from things whether he wants them or not, for example, the door if he wants outside, the kitchen if he wants food or drink. he'll lie right underneath anybody's legs if he wants human company. He is the strangest dog I've ever met, let alone been the owner, for all of the above reasons.
@@jenlfpotter3870 She literally says the barking is driving her insane lol
I can’t handle barking if it’s constant because it grates at my nerves like nails on a chalkboard.
I'm on both side of this. I work at a dog daycare- when Im running the big dog section I allow barking but not excessively. Keeping them relatively quiet also keeps them so so much calmer. Same with my own dogs- they bark and I tell them they're good boys but that's enough and they will stay quiet until they think they need to alert me again.
This lady has no patience at all with these dogs. I wonder if the owners that drop the dogs off know she is not cut out as an owner of a doggie day care.
Why would anyone want to sever a dog's vocal chords?! I mean I have a dog that can annoy you when he barks, but I would never do that to him! That is cruel and inhumane!😢
If you are going to turn to cruel and torturous means, you should not own any animal.
Copy that.
The owners are not even trying to reign these dogs in on their leash.
honestly she was way more loud than those poor dogs.
My dogs bark. My cat won't shut up. We don't cut their vocals
Her yelling 💀😡👹
The dog yelling back 💩😼☠
My dog is such a good boy. He's obedient, walks like a perfect gentleman, off leash trained, doesn't make a peep at other animals or people on a walk. However indoors He's a nuisance barker. He literally never shuts his yapper for attention. It drives us bananas.
Max is just such a source of love from him they aren’t used to listening to him
Not the dogs in a freaking baby carrier 😂
My parents adopted a former Maltese show dog that had her cords clipped,poor thing!
isn't there some kind of licence people need to have (with training and stuff) in order to run a dog daycare ?
Tbh if her dogs had a choice they would debark her as well lmao
Why have a doggie daycare if you dont want them to bark? 😢
The barking is part of working/having a doggy daycare although not allowing them to bark excessively is best because an excessive barker stresses out the rest of the pack
10 mins in - What got me was how she said "I just bought this couch" not "WE just got this couch" .. what married person talks like that?
I thought the exact same thing. They seem more like roommates than partners.
What an absolutely amazing dog trainer! Watched for first time, like 5 episodes in a row, jus great general knowledge eventhogh never been a fan of dogs.
I wouldn’t leave a pet rock with that woman.
She should get cats if she doesnt like barking........
Let's be real... She'll try and de claw
She shouldn't have/be around animals of any kind!
Some cats, miauw a lot too!
I cannot believe this woman runs a doggie daycare. I wouldn't leave an earthworm in her care.
😹😹😹
It’s a good thing that she showed so much growth after being taught how to properly handle dogs.
Those are adorable little dogs. I'm glad Victoria could help the situation so everyone is more calm.
I wish this worked for my neighbor's dogs. Im sitting outside with mine to let them relieve themselves. My 4 are quietly minding their own business, but I'm surrounded by other dogs barking at everything.
He loves those dogs more than his wife 😂😂
Tbf I own a daycare and my dogs don’t always need to come. I’m at work and sometimes they can be distracting, not to mention I don’t want to show favoritism. I don’t think that in itself is a red flag.
But her dogs NEVER come and she says they’re the problem.
Is it just me or when I watch these videos I learn more
Omg toilet thing. My dog goes wees then comes back inside and a minute later she barks and goes “it’s poo time!” It’s so funny
My blood pressure spiked to over 300 in the first 5 seconds 🤦🏻♀️of watching this
What the hell - can't train your dogs properly so you want to cut their vocal chords!? That's barbaric!! I have a barky dog he is a rescue and was abused and not socialised. It has taken a lot of work on my part to help him. Barks are them communicating, fear, stress, strangers... You have to address the issue to solve the barking. Also cutting chords isn't going to stop them being out of control!
She needs a pack of Beagles 🤣🤣
THIS we have 3 beagles in the doggy daycare I work at and although they don't bark excessively they SCREAM when they bark lol
There's never a bad dog, only a bad owner.
This lady shouldnt have a doggie daycare period. To sit there and go debarking is less invasive than spaying or neurtoring and then after victoria said it should be illegal, and then when camera on her goes i havent done much research!!!! The heck are you doing acting like you did do research than by saying its less invassive...... your suppose to be guarding dogs when their owners arent around not potentially permanently harming them with ideas. Most animal care things here are illegal in other countries for a reason....
if someone would handle my cocker spaniel like that for being curious I would be fuming.
I love love love Victoria's training techniques!!! I always thought they were the best ones ❤
😳 If you can't control your own children, is your first business thought, "I want to watch other people's kids for money?" Wow
I can't... they bite other dogs so when they are next to one she doesn't even consider to pull them back from the dog... in one clip we see even other human being tangled in leash
This is a repeat, I have seen it before. I would love to see new episodes as I love this show ❤️
Some of us havent
@@mariemcrae4027 that isn’t my point, this was described as a premier but it is a repeat, these episodes can be found on CZcams, I just said we need new episodes that have not been uploaded previously.
Oooh my! If he would be my husband, i would be so grateful, if he likes his dogs on the couch, sitting on him or next to him!
I would looove him even more😂
I looove a man, who not only accepts the dogs on the couch or bed, but loooves the dogs on the bed or couth, snuggling, kissing eachother.
Never found a man like this man!
So i stay single.
This man is a gem.
The barking is a problem if you are afraid to be kicked out of your house.
But cutting the vocal cord?!
Oooh my gosh, how horrible is that? Cruel yes.
Interresting to watch this video.
Thanks.
I’ve never heard of debarking before! It seems extremely cruel and why would anyone want to do this to their own fur babies?
I can’t even watch this because I have that same dog and I love it everybody’s different so why can’t a dog be different by trying to sing or talk?
This couple are exhausting. I can see why it's so difficult for their dogs.
“I would get them de barke- NOOOooo”
But tbh if I had two loud dogs I would get them a professional trainer to train them
It was a nice and teachfull episode THANK YOU 😊❤😊❤😊❤
She run s a doggy daycare yet has no clue how to communicate with dogs or how to let dogs actually be dogs. Seriously no one's allowed to bark ever? She needs to get over herself. I couldn't even be around this woman.
It's like someone running a human daycare and walking around ordering the kids not to talk!
This man has a genuine heart!
Never saw a man like that for real.
The dogs are 100% safe and nurtured by such a man.
His wife is just a lucky one also!❤
She would never get near my dog!!!! I dont like her!
She would be the one of the very last people I would pay to leave my dog with.
I'm not as upset about this couple like other dog owners because they generally love their dogs and they want the best for them and you see they do get discourage when their dogs are misbehaving because they know their dogs isn't happy and they want to fix that. People make mistakes, they made mistakes but their mistakes isn't as bad as other pet owners behaviors towards their dogs is and after the owners saw how to treat their dogs, they change their ways quickly. That is a good owner.
For me, debarking, declawing, tail docking, ear docking etc should be illegal unless it’s absolutely necessary and approved by at LEAST 1 veterinarian.
Okay so if i had a baby who kept crying should i cut their vocal cords off? This is that situation but in a different way. Cutting vocal cords should be illegal.
What in the world? How do these people not realize their dogs need to be on a different leash ....two SEPARATE 6ft leads not a retractable leash that they are both connected to. I swear people have NO common sense these days. Also you need to hold your dogs back and not let them go up to whoever they want!
Pretty sure if they realized what was wrong, how to stop the barking and how to train their dog, they wouldn't be on an episode of a tv show that showcases troublesome dogs starting a renowned dog trainer.🥴
I KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE that HAVE de-barked their dogs. Do you know how freaking hard it is, to find an apartment in NYC?? If she lost her apartment , it could be up to 3 years, before she could afford a deposit , much less even find a place available.
I watched a NYC real estate reality show & one of the people , looking for a better place , was living in a water heater closet, that only fit a small mattress crammed in wall to wall & their laptop computer. That's all they could fit in there. They were paying $1850 a month not including utilities & $1500 a month for a parking space, they waited 4 or 5 years for. Just trying to illustrate, the difficulties of living , renting & parking , in NYC.
That sounds terrible
Don't get an animal if you can't be bothered to train it.
Don't get a dog if you are going to take away it's ability to communicate.
Don't get a cat if you are going to cut it's fingers off.
Don't get a horse it you are going to cut it's tail off.
It's that f*ing simple. If you can't train your animal Don't get one.
Mutilation is not ok. It not legal to do that sh*t in Europe or other places but the U.S doesn't seem to give a damn about animal wellfare
The only disruptive energy is hers😂
BIG L FOR THE LADY WHO WANTS TO CUT VOCAL CORDSSS 😡😡😡😤😤😤
I would never silence my dogs. I see it as their way of communicating with me. She needs to new day job.
Your right It is their way of communicating with you that's a fact they evolved to bark to communicate with us
@@julieworsley5048 point is I want them to tell me when somebody is at my door or is they need something to eat or drink or be let out.
I saw the title and I screamed WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CUT YOUR DOGS VOCALS OFF AHhHHHhHhHhHH 🤬 🥺
Thank the Lord we have Victoria for these animals thank you for you Victoria you are a blessing for them dogs 🐕💋
21:28 What a sweetheart!! 😭😭
the motorcycle thing is very dangerous but very cute
If she is this worried about being kicked out of her apartment and that the dogs cant bark ,she keeps screaming at them, the dogs can’t go on the couch and she is thinking of talking out their vocal cord !!!!! how about not having a dog ?!!! They are beautiful dogs that deserve to be loved and taken care of and not treated poorly
That's terrible!