Long Time No See Is A Bizarre Phrase
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2023
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SOURCES & FURTHER READING
Long Time No See Origin: zhiwenhu.hustoj.com/long-time-...
Fixed Expressions: study.com/academy/lesson/fixe...
Long Time No See Meaning & Origin: about-english.com/long-time-n...
Is Long Time No See Offensive?: ellii.com/blog/is-long-time-n...
Who Said Long Time No See First?: www.npr.org/sections/codeswit...
Long Time No See OED Entry: www.oed.com/dictionary/long_a...
Is there a phrase like "long time no see" in your language?
we say lâu rồi không gặp
In Germany, we say "Lange nicht gesehen." Sometimes even jokingly if you have just seen him a minute ago. And sometimes there would be added: "Und doch wiedererkannt." ("But still recogniced.")
Fun Fact: In Chinese, the standard way of saying hello is "你好", which when translated literally, word for word, means "You good".
Minor note: You butchered the pronuication of "好久不见".
Minor note 2: I decided to look up what hello means in Chinese to try to factcheck my translation and I found an website saying "你吃了吗?" is another way of saying "Hello". I factchecked with a Chinese speaker and it is actually used. Mostly by peasants, but that was a surprise to me.
Why? "你吃了吗?" literally translates to "You ate (yet)?"
In French, it's not unique to one specific expression. We can say phrases that are simple and grammatically incorrect like “moi avoir faim” (I'm hungry/lit. Me have hunger) and many others. I think it might come from Tây Bồi, a speech that developed in Vietnam for trade. I don't think it is offensive, it's rather humoristic and goofy.
In Portuguese, it's "Quanto tempo!", which translates literally to "How much time!"
“Long time no see” is often used ironically when you run into someone at two different locations in a short amount of time.
I've used it both literally and ironically.
I've rarely heard it used ironically, not to say I haven't
Balboa said “Long time no sea.” just before he discovered the Pacific Ocean.
Lol
I din woch the rocki movies yet
I, for one, would enjoy a video on Chinese influences on English.
Same! I speak both at home and would definitely like to see how much non-native English styles are actually integral in speech.
I'd love to see one about Indian languages influence on it
The Cantonese/Mandarin version of Long time no see (好耐冇見/好久不見) is causally used as introductory greeting. But I have no idea whether we used it for centuries or it's a more recent thing because of the English equivalent
Looking up my native German grammar, the only two examples I could think of are:
1) Intentionally not using capitalisation in online chats. That keeps the conversation casual.
2) German is notoriously infamous for its articles, the "der", "die", "das", and their declensions. So sometimes, German learners might simplify all of them into "de".
However, that's also a stereotypical prejudice against Turkish-Germans.
The second is also Dutch
Another very interesting and thought-provoking topic. Surprisingly, no mention was made of Pidgin English, the Trans-Pacific trade language. That language is what English was long ago, a trade language among people with different language living and trading with each other, like the Angles, Saxons, Danes Celts and Norman French languages merging into English.
As an ESL teacher I have occasionally had to explain this phrase to non native English learners. Surprisingly, they either said that it must have come from their language, or that it was so simple it needed no interpretation. Yes the Chinese speakers said so, but at least one Polynesian said the same. Forgive the impertinence, but you might find a video about Pidgin and/or Polynesian English quite interesting.
Technically, there was 1 mention, during the second quote.
Technically, the word was mentioned, but without context or explanation. That's why I wrote my response. I didn't do a deep dive, but suggested that another video could be made on this topic.@@llawliet666
I was born in Hong Kong in 1985 and I clearly remember I had a discussion about if "Long time no see" is grammatically correct in English in my primary school class. My teacher concluded that "Long time no see" is came from Chinese/Cantonese "好耐無見" but has already adapted in English so there is no problem for us to use it in a conversation with native English speaker. I don't think my English teacher actually made any serious academic level research about this topic, but this little discussion did spark some interest for me and my classmate to learn more about English, and let us know that languages are living and evolving rather than being static and unchangeable. This video really give me some nostalgia feeling of the time learning English as a second language, thanks!
I'd interpret 'leave no book unturned' to mean to read every text on some topic or in some collection; very context dependent but pretty easy to scan.
One of the fun things about fixed expressions is that you can misuse them in ways that can be understood, often humorously, and sometimes context dependent. As someone else mentioned, 'long time no speak' or '...hear' work, as would 'long time no 3AM drunk text' or the like.
If you turned the book, congrats! you have learned to read the book sideways or upside down.
This reminds me of a phrase I used at a workplace 'you is good people' which came from a colleague who was learning english. I liked the phrase so used it regularly, not intending to mock, just to be more memorable than phrasing it correctly. When I went to the resteraunt recently none of the old staff I knew were there however I heard the phrase twice being spoken between staff members
I would tend to associate 'you is good people' with a stereotype of an unsophisticated rural American, particularly someone from Appalachia or the Midwest (whether or not anyone from those regions would actually use that phrase).
Edit: I'm not saying that people from those regions are unsophisticated, but just that they are frequent targets of stereotypes (and sometimes will ironically roll with the stereotype themselves)
As a Sri Lankan I feel strangely proud of the mention lol. Hope Mr. Appoo got around to meeting his wife in the end 😔
The fact that you can find multiple unrelated early uses of this combination of words indicates that it wasn't a difficult phrase for people of widely disparate backgrounds to assemble, so it could easily arise naturally from just about anywhere. But also our "native speaking" culture loves to assemble snappy semi-nonsense phrases that have a lazy casual feel to them. (And then there's me who frequently just stumbles over the words when blurting out awkward spontaneous social greetings)
Personally, I always use it as "long time, no see". Yes, with a comma. Makes it more grammatically correct without taking away its meaning
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
@@imakstabro you are watching a grammar video
@@themement3616 this isnt grammar this is semantics
I always wondered about the phrase "no can do." It always sounded like baby talk to me. It does make for a good Hall & Oates song, though.
Now I have an earworm! 😂
I’d love a video about Chinese influence on English
If someone had asked me about this phrase, I'd probably thought of it as of German or Germanic origin. In German we have the phrase "lange nicht gesehen" (long not seen) short for "wir haben uns lange nicht gesehen" (we have us long not seen). With a lot of Americans of German heritage I wouldn't wonder, if this phrase made it into American.
In Polish this phrase goes "długo się nie widzieliśmy" - which literally translates to "long self not see us"
się - self only is determined in context of -liśmy - suffix for "us" to be understood as "siebie nawzajem" "mutually self" or simply each other.
I think you forgot about "Kopę lat!" - "Sixty years!".
Aczkolwiek ta fraza jest w pełni gramatyczna (chociaż można by twierdzić, że ma osobliwy szyk wyrazów) więc nie sadzę, żeby było to w pełni analogiczne. Szczególnie, że współegzystuje wiele wariacjii. Owszem, mamy "długo się nie widzieliśmy" ale jest również "dawno się nie widzieliśmy" jak i "wieki się nie widzieliśmy".
In Chile, I don't know if it happens on other Spanish-speaking countries, we tend to say "tanto tiempo", instead of "hace mucho tiempo que no nos vemos", it's for reasons quite similar to these I think.
As a Puerto Rican, we definitely use tanto tiempo commonly as well, but I am also used to "hace tiempo que no te veo", and given the English influence, we intentionally make literal translations for fun. While I think it's likely I learned "long time no see" instead of coming up with it, it feels like a natural funny translation along the same lines. This is perhaps not an origin story, but more of a way to expand the usage of the phrase.
Reading a bit more into our psychology, since Puerto Rico has always resented US domination and the imposition of English (certainly at least before the 1960's), intentionally abusing English this way feels like a tiny way to reclaim some power.
Where ever its from, its completely friendly and welcoming
As a non-native English speaker, I've never given any thought to the grammar of "Long time no see".
In Chinese, 很久没见/好久不见 = literally long time no see (or long time have not seen (you))
In Australia, we say "Haven't seen you in ages!"
"Long time no see" is usually sarcastic, and rarely friendly.
That’s because it’s a Americaner term
Hmm I’ve also heard “Long time No speak” or “Long time no hear”
Very interested in seeing a video on the Chinese influence on English
I could see someone using "Leave no book unturned", if searching in a library. In reference to the other phrase, but still meaning the same thing, in the context of the library. It wouldn't mean literally turn over every book, but search each book.
This video scratches my brain in juuuuust the right spot. Thank you for this!
"Protracted unit of chronological measurement failure to observe" - Vulcan
i think this comes from hong-kong english, or some kind of chinese pidgin
Or the Trans-Pacific Sino-Polynesian trade lingo, Pidgin [shorthand for Business English].
I wonder if there could be some kind of Transcontinental Railroad connection. There was a massive migration of Chinese workers, especially on the western segment, where they would have had contact with Native Americans.
I heard “long time no see” came from Chinese pidgin because there’s a Cantonese phrase that says exactly that. Same with “killing two birds with one stone.”
lately, some of our highest pay chief has said "kill two stone with one bird"
The reason it's popular is because it's short and easier to say that "IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I HAVE LAST SEEN YOU"
As a native English, and second language Chinese, speaker. 好久不见, hao jiu bu Jian, translates directly to "long time no see" and is used in the same context. I never thought about it until this video!
9:29 Yeah, true, but this is also a movie quote. And quite a famous one too.
I always assumed a german origin of that phrase. «Lange nicht gesehen» is used in the exact same way and literally translates to «long not seen» and lange in a temporal sense is usually translated as long time. With «long time not seen» we are only two letters away. The expression is commonly used and grammatically correct in German. At least it is very common to remove subject and verb in sentences like «schön hier», «Guten Appetit» or «auch hier?»
The phrase is very common in Malaysia. Interestingly, when directly translated to Malay it's 'Lama tidak bersua' which also grammatically correct...😂
i have been saying this for so long im so glad you made a video about it
Thanks for another great video. And as for that video on Chinese influence on the English language, chop chop!
😂
Don't be silly, everyone knows "long time no see" was invented by Sonic the Hedgehog.
You should bring back the Help Name Explain Haiku.
English is my second language and I'm kinda embarrassed to admit that I learned of the phrase "long time no see" from Sonic games, I think it's in Sonic Heroes where there's multiple instances of the characters saying the phrase when meeting each other.
I was just thinking about how crazy this phrase is the other week and have been using it as an example of how wild speaking your a native language vs learned language is
I ALWAYS thought that long time no see came from broken/pidgin English. I thought it was obvious.
I never considered Native American, but I always thought it was some kind of Asian derivative. I wouldn’t rule out Native American though.
Informative
In American Sign Language, the same phrase consist of the signs for “until now” “see”, and “none”.
Phrases like "long time no see" (with a bizarre composition) are often neatly classified as an "interjection" in dictionaries :)
It is odd to be that we call this "broken" English when its meaning is clear. When English-learners use the language, they often create back-formations (like with the example from Chinese) which mirror word-order in their languages of origin. I've tried to shy away from calling a student's formations "wrong" if their meaning is conveyed. The purpose of language being, after all, to convey meaning. That's not to say I wouldn't illustrate the non-standard nature of their sentence structure.
Given how restrictive English grammar is with the way you can place words in a phrase I find very common for any non-proficient speaker to speak "broken English." It isn't because there's a lack of knowledge from the speaker, but because there's a lack of meaning on those restrictions. You can't place some words in some places or you need to change the ending of the word or conjugate it as a verb in order to keep the grammar intact, but none of those factors give meaning to the phrase so a foreigner doesn't really care, because it gets the point across. That's what happens with "long time, no see."
My dad never learnt English, but he often tries when speaking with foreigners. He says that sentence and many others similarly structured, because it is easier to learn new words than how to connect them.
I´m English, but live in Spain and in Spanish they use "mucho tiempo sin verte" which is a direct translation of "Long time no see"
Long time no see, or "lama tak jumpa" in Indonesian is so common and used wherever we meet someone close to us and someone who we longed for. I think it's also used since quite a long time ago.
How come i was convinced i had watched this video already but you uploaded today? is it a repost or am i just confused?
I always thought this phrase has slavic origin, in polish we say "długo się nie widzieliśmy" translated word for word "long (time) each other no see"
Long time, no ocean
Australian variant
Even without an explanation, I can at least figure out what "long time no see" means and what it has to do with greeting people. However, an even more bizarre phrase, imo, is "so long" to mean goodbye. It makes no sense whatsoever. Could it be related to "long time no see" to mean hello? Could you do a video on the origins of "so long"?
Oooh, good question!
really good
I would categorize it as more of a greeting than an introduction
What's the difference?
Introductions are more for people you haven't met before. "Long time no see" is something you say to friends you haven't seen in a while to greet them. No introductions involved.
@@kkcliffy2952 I took it that he meant an introduction to a conversation (i.e. a greeting)
I get what you're saying now, but I think that they still are meant to be the same thing
@@waspsandwich6548 I get what you're saying. It's probably a regional difference anyway. I just haven't heard introduction used as a synonym for greeting before.
Cylons were from Battlestar Galactica! Ceylon was pronounced more like See-Lon, but the 'ee' is weak, and said as a shwa - sort of 'uh'. And a stress on the 'Lon'.
I always say, "Long time no ocean."
I don't even use this phrase because its innately broken grammar puts me right off.
I just say "It's been so long!" when I am reunited with an old friend, usually prefaced with a "Gosh!"
Oddly enough, I just used "Long time, no see," earlier today.
This is a phrase commonly used between super villains and superheroes
"Makes complicated for people learning English"
Me, someone who's native language contains a lot of four word idioms and has a phrase that literally translates to "long time no see":
It bugs me when people "correct" "10 items or less" to "10 items or fewer". It sounds so stiff and formal.
8:55 "groups of people *trying* to learn English" has arrow from Australia to USA lol
Hey there Name Explain. Long time, no see. Hope you've been doing well.
When you're reading, leave no page unturned.
"Mamie" is pronounced as "may me", not as "mammy". Mamie Eisenhower would be disappointed.
This was a very interesting topic, and since you brought it up, it would be interesting to discuss phrases where Chinese immigrants have influenced (especially American) English.
3:50 yes, it is
Long time I haven’t seen you.
4 years ago I said precisely that to my doctor. Lol
And please do Saskatchewan, and other native words. Like waskesiu, igloolik, etc
I can just imagine how English-speaking individuals who are transplanted to another country (an American serviceman in Japan) sound to a native as they try to speak in Japanese. Of course they would find it funny.
I took Spanish in high school and tried answering a Puerto Rican co-worker in his native language. He laughed and said to me, “I think you are trying to say, ‘I speak a little Spanish.’” But in my broken-Spanish, it came out, “I talk very small Spanish.” We both had a good laugh over that. When it comes to being offensive, the listener should pay less attention to the words, and more attention to the INTENTION of the speaker.
I am not such a fool that I can’t figure out when someone’s trying to offend me. They could do that in PERFECT English. We should all grow the hell up!
"it's somewhat offensive!"
I always thought it originated in texting/instant messaging
I think the grammatical sentence closest to the phrase may be:
"It's been a long time without seeing."
More accurately it's.
"It's been a long time without seeing you."
@sun2541 That's closer to the original meaning, but further from the original phrasing. I prioritized the latter.
It’s actually pretty commonly used in japan.
Long time no ocean
Well, saying "long no see time" wouldn't make much sense, now would it?....
Or would it?
If people actually get offended by "long time no see", they need to get their head examined. These people probably phineas gaged themselves.
Are you kidding me I totally do that to the doctor all the time
I think the Chinese explanation is much more likely. It’s apparently in common use in China, not just a coincidence. Chinese people just see it as direct translation, not that it’s insulting.
mountain out of a mole hill!
I have always hated this phrase and avoid using it at all costs - it has always sounded weird to me
Long Time No Sea ( tides been gone a while )
Bro should rename his channel to Language Explain
Leave no Page Unflipped
4:13
I though it came from old long sense as an update.
Time no see long.
Wayyyyy(喂！！）Long time no see ar! How are you ar?
How different caramels got their names? :)
Pigeon English. Owl Chinese. Sure. 😂
I would've thought that the phrase came from some person who was too lazy to say a full sentence.
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
I can only hear Sonic characters saying it
I always thought chopchop is of South African origin...
The Chinese told me it's Chinese.
i speak Italian
1:11 I think your Bri’ish is showing, I would/have absolutely said that to my doctor at an appointment
Everyone knows Sonic the Hedgehog coined the phrase!
Wouldn't the gramatical correct saying be: "Long time not seen"?
Did you stretch this out to hit that 10min mark?
There’s no subject matter I can’t stretch out to 10 minutes lol
speaking of bizarre you have a weird accent where you accent the end sound of words. eighteen ninty-two(wah) or odd(uh) or today(uh). i just have never heard this before and think its interesting. i would like to say your vocal fry is killing me. i love your channel and youre a great guy and all but damn that vocal fry is horrific.
i like th e video but i have to say the thumbnail was way too clickbaity
Ceylon is not SY-lon, it’s Say-LON!
Or, as people of my background say, s^lon [IPA has changed since I learned it 50 years ago, or my memory has], the ^ as I learned it was ə, so səlon.
I also thought it is seLON, where the "e" is a schwa.
@@WayneKitching Eh?
Sri Lankan (or "Ceylonese" I guess) here, I couldn't care less how it's pronounced lmao
I've always said "sey-lon" but I know people who say "suh-lon" or "si-lon/see-lon", and they're all white people. And I don't care how they say it, because my country isn't called Ceylon anymore lol.
That name is only really used for our tea, a couple of banks (BOC, Seylan), or some other colonial-era stuff
@@Syiepherze You can mispronounce any word any way you like.