The LOST Manchester and Milford Tunnel
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2021
- #abandoned #tunnel #railway
Welcome to Wales. This week we go in search of some Abandoned Railway Tunnel Portals and not for the first time question.... "Was it ever built?" This is the Manchester and Milford Railway built to join its namesake. Part of the route would have seen a mile long tunnel under the Cambrian Mountains but a lack of money meant abandonment... what remains today?
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Being a member of the Railway Ramblers, there have been a number of occasions where rapid growth of trees and brambles etc. can, not only impede progress, but can also be dangerous and cause injury. Sometimes "a good try" is the best that can be managed and this was a good try!
Brambles are natures barbed wire, get stuck in enough of it and you are not getting out of it without pruning shears or stanley knife.
Brambles are preditors , the number of times I've noticed the remains of a sheep's carcase at the centre of a large area of brambles that due to the spikes has only been able to move inwards. Once had to rescue a cat that was heading towards the same fate.
"I can't bite your banana on camera - that's wrong!" LMFAO
At least on youtube ;) ...
Imagine this context at the end, mentioning patreons get behind the scenes shots and live shows...
At least he didn't suggest she lick it!
See also ripe plums, firm peaches, and ripe melons. The fruitbowl is an amazing source of double entrendres.
Thanks for the video Rebecca and Paul beautiful scenery with great company seemed a bit bananas to me 😆lol 😎🐓🐓🐓🇬🇧
…i nearly dropped my tablet hearing Rebecca’s joke. that was great innuendo work 🤣
Kudos for admitting on video to the accidental error, at last you’re nice enough to let us see one of the biggest issues with what you do: finding the places in person in the first place
re: stopping the tunnel…if it’s unfinished they could just collapse or seal the entrance then cover the right of way but retain knowledge of the location and landmarks just in case it ever got the go-ahead again, no different than mining tunnels IMHO
The Banana start was funny, I cannot believe Rebecca said that! I can understand the frustration of looking forward to something and turns into a massive disappointment but hope you do get to see the abandoned tunnel in your future visit. But still we enjoyed the walk! Brilliant video.
“Follow the process , not the plan “. Thanks guys for taking me along with you this beautiful Sunday
Beautiful plumage... eh, scenery. Sorry wrong show.😄
Hi Paul & Rebecca
Nice to see you back in Wales, I was in the group with Chris Parker back in 2015 when we looked for the tunnel portal. The ground conditions were difficult then and the trees have grown even thicker! As far as we know the other end is a long hike in and both are basically earthworks no actual stonework or tunnel engineering. A good video of what Railway Ramblers can be faced with when exploring old routes nevertheless.
Banana !
Shame I didn't know you were coming up as I am in contact with the NRW Forst Manager for that complex as I have done survey work for him in the past in the Hafren Forest. I know he has the exact map reference and details of all that remains of the exploratory dig of the portal. I know, having seen their printout that there are no other remains. If you let me know when you come up again I could probably save you the walk up there. And to be honest even in the spribg the tree cover there will be just as thick and I don't think there are any plans for felling as that patch doesn't seem to be affected by larch die-back at the moment.
There is a local story that there was one other train that went to Llangurig and that allegedly it was carrying a member of the Royal Family who was on his way to a recuperative holiday locally.
I also know someone who owns one of the old stations on the Mid Wales line south of Llanidloes who I am sure would be happy for you to visit their property and photograph it whilst you are up here.
Thanks Graham. It's very odd because so many tunnels we see the shafts where always laid down first.
Yes please do get in touch with your contact, that would be great
@@pwhitewick
grahamdavis297@gmail.com
The Manchester and Milford is a pretty sad story of grand ambition which failed, never getting anywhere near either Manchester or Milford Haven. And looking at the terrain and depopulation you can see why. It did at least provide a useful line from Aberystwyth to Carmarthenshire and there are some nice walks round Strata Florida - a wonderfully euphonious name called after the abbey 2 miles up the valley, which itself is a latinization of the Welsh Ystrad Fflur (valley of flowers)! Even that line had gradients of 1 in 43.
I live a mile away from that line and have walked bits of it (most of it is farmland now). Oddly, on Sunday I took the grandkids to the old creamery at Pont Llanio station. The road to Bont from Tregaron was closed for resurfacing many years ago and I asked a girl I worked with how she got to work, she said she just took the old railway line!
The monks of Strata Florida cut peat at nearby Cors Caron which has a boardwalk for birdwatching.
Doesn't matter if you didn't find it, the place and the walk along with your company is enough to make an lovely film.
Get yourself some walking poles, you can use them to gauge the ground more easily
Nice walk in the woods, a little waffling, and a banana 🍌 what could be better on a Sunday afternoon? 🤔😲😜☺️🤣
I think this is brilliant, and I look forward to next spring. I really admire your tenacity and interest. Since I can’t walk very far now I find myself living vicariously through your videos. Whether MY Wife would tolerate me doing something like this, I doubt. Anyway, good luck next year.
Loved it - started smiling right away. You'll get 'em next time!
Whether going back in the spring will be any better I doudt it, as it does look as that the forest there has been clear felled in the past and when they are clearing the trees they leave all the brash behind and jist remove the main trunks. Then just plant the new trees through the brash and the old brash just slowly rots away and can be often be a few feet in depth in places and when you walk on it with your full weight you just go straight through as the rotten branches etc just break under your weight and it can be very hard to get your feet back out and very likely twist your ankles badly because I know I have done it. So when you do go back make sure that there is at least two of you there all the time within at least sighting distance.
Amy how an excellent video as usual.
Thanks Doug. That was definitely my concern on the day. Tue plan is to tackle it from the northern side of the Valley instead this time.
Ah well, some you win, as they say!! I had no idea from the drone shots where the portal may have been. At least you are man enough to own up to mistakes. Kudos to you pair.
Big thumbs up 👍👍 guys
Thanks for all of your sleuthing work. It's always a great adventure with you both!
As a history buff, not finding something can be as interesting as finding what we are looking for. It sends back for a deeper dig in the pictures, papers, and stories. Something will turn up. The two of you could probably sit at a table in a cafe, talk about spoons and I would watch.
If anything, it could lead to new discoveries of old history
As always, one of the most watchable and entertaining channels on You Tube. Love it. Fabulous content. Well done to both of you. 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Oh that was so funny. You too do make me laugh. The walk itself was fabulous without the tunnel. Thanks for taking me along. Please stay safe and take care
Hi Paul and Rebecca.
You did very well, especially considering all the resources you threw at trying to find (on the day I mean) the tunnel entrance. Albeit, you found where it was when reviewing the footage back home - that's happened to me too many times before! Vegetation is, like you say, at its worst this time of year!
Stay safe both, kind regards GWR
Sorry that you didn't find the proposed "North" Blaenmerin tunnel entrance and cutting (although your aerial footage does show the correct location), my oldest son was doing a walk nearby with a party of kids a couple of years ago, and I told him to see if he could find it - he did, and he sent me some images of it. He passed a "Earth Geo-sciences" degree in Cardiff University a few years before and has always been interested in the outdoors - so he also stated "Definitely a cutting for the railway as the rock is awful not worth quarrying and not near the road" and "No tunnel"....
Thanks David. Would love to see those pics
what better way to start the day ...with paul & Rebecca's fun-filled adventure ...awesome
Lovely scenery even though Misty, great walk. I have every confidence that you will find the tunnel one day. You will find a way.thank you.
Thanks for this video.I heard of the tunnel back in the day,when I lived in the area,but I regret never getting round to look for it.I’m sure you will find it later on.
Lovely little vid...it's just how it goes sometimes, in regards to turning up somewhere, doing your homework, and then ending up frustrated! It's happened to me plenty of times! But I still enjoyed your commentary of the research you had done. And I'm with you with the potential depths of any possible shafts there! Cheers...
Thank you. Yup just can't see it.
What an effort you put in this one! And yet so frustrating, but entertaining though!
Great stuff both - so pleased to see Rebecca more in the final edits and a little bit of double entendres (had to look up the spelling) - with faces lighting up (Rebecca and even you Paul!). Can sense you enjoyment doing this and sharing with us. Question, where are the "kids" as you call them? Can't wait for more on this.
I know this area myherin forest, I have family that live just across the river, in an old miner's cottage. Never knew this even existed, brilliant video. Keep up the good work 👍😊
I look forward to your return to the Manchester & Milford - and, of course, to your next video!
Paul, great vid even if you didn't find the tunnel. Now I would like to make a suggestion. That you always carry the GPS with you and a telescoping walking stick. The walking stick could have been used to probe for solid ground. And get Rebecca her own banana!
10/10 for effort 👍 Not easy when dealing with photos of that age and that kind of forestry, 🌲 your dealing with rapid growth. Looking forward to your return in the future 👍
Good effort and a partial success! Please reattempt when possible.
Even though you didn’t find the tunnel, this was still an enjoyable video - I look forward to seeing you having another look in the future :)
I didn't think failure could be so rewarding!
Failing to find that tunnel rewarded us all with a fascinating video . Thank you for sharing it with us.
hi paul and rebecca , another cool video , loved the intro lmao , shame it couldnt be found but still a good video , well done and thank you guys :)
I am glad you have shown it, even if you did not find what you were looking for. I do the same in my videos, proving that it does not always go to plan, but we are big enough to accept it went wrong.
Cheers Trev. Back in the spring me thinks
Better luck next time. Maybe you could find the tunnel from the other end? Great video by the way..
Thanks Rob. Yup that was actually the intention, but we wasted so much time on this portal.
It would be interesting to see LIDAR view of landscape with vegetation stripped away using technique archeologists used in Central America to find Mayan ruins. To much fun today!
Unfortunately it's not covered here as yet
LIDAR add ons for drones are available, but I suspect they are quite pricey: www.routescene.com/lidar-mapping-systems/uav-lidar-system/
Incredible that a company has developed a drone LIDAR package. Probably a bit pricy but it means that eventually average person will be able to hire one for surveys. Thanks for info.
@@dwegmull there is a project to get a open source LIDAR that you can drone mount for $400, I *think* they are currently at about $1000 for the unit if you're handy with the soldering iron, and $2000 if someone is making it for you, and the price is getting lower and lower....
LIDARs were $20,000 when the project started, their project and others, the free software, and miniaturisation has dragged the price down.
Or just as a farmer *really* nicely to borrow their John Deere one 👀 and for smaller spaces, like voids in tunnels etc, and mk1 microsoft Kinnect-on-a-stick plus some open source free software is a cheap n dirty mapping tool, maybe fun to attach to a remote control wheeled vehicle? 🤔
I love your films. Thank you.
Thx you pair. A good walk out even if not finding it 😃👍🏻
Love you guys great vidios keep them coming
This is close to me, I'm going to have a look myself. Thanks for sharing and pointing this out 👍
Let us know how you get on
@@pwhitewick I will, I'll try it from the track on the other side of the stream. I'll get wet feet but it'll be easier than down through those trees.
Btw I measured it on GE and the tunnel would've been around 1.3 miles (2.1km) long when it was finished.
Brilliant video, never enjoyed people not finding a tunnel so much
You mentioned Standage tunnel and the depth of shafts. Standage canal tunnel had several shafts but they were located where it passed under low points up on the moors, so shafts were limited to around 300 ft deep max as a result, even though the hill cover is much more than this in other places. The three railway tunnels at Standage didn’t use any shafts, they had the luxury of using the parallel and slightly lower canal tunnel to carry away the spoil. Personally, I recon the Blaenmerin tunnel wasn’t dug at all, apart from the two approach cuttings, as I’m sure the clue of the spoil heaps would have been recorded on the old maps. And finally, Cowburn tunnel has a shaft nearly 800ft deep, so deep shafts are possible!
Hmmmm. CZcams video title.... The uks deepest tunnel shaft
@@pwhitewick Sorry typo - the Standedge shafts are actually 500ft (and I couldn’t spell Standedge either!). It would indeed be a challenge to work out the uk’s deepest tunnel shafts. Cowburn is the deepest I’ve found so far. I’ll keep thinking.
Another great video
Very interesting stuff!!!
Well I could see the drainage ditch that take water away from the cutting and spotted a different colour in some of the pine trees in a line.
Great stuff 👍
good effort
Many thanks, try walking with a staff; good for probing boggy ground and a pair of secateurs in you pocket means brambles give way to you. Keep up the good work.
Love anything and everything to do with Manchester and Milford.. brilliant
Our welsh pine plantations are impenetrable , even if you had hiking poles and a machete you'd still get yourself into a pickle ,good choice to keep out, unfortunately it's all evergreen and the landscape doesn't change very dramatically season to season , and at 400m you only really have a month or two until it's all unpredictably under snow again at random times so if you live a long way out check the very local forecasts because the bbc weather never report's random blanket coverings on the peaks around here ..and if it's not summer ie July/August bring wellies.
No banana action🍌 unless he finds the hidden tunnel...
Coincidence that only today, before I discovered your video, I was researching the M & M Railway so that I could follow the route on Google Earth. I found grid references online for both ends of the tunnel but when I looked down in satellite view I could see nothing at a all, just a mass of trees. I thought that you might have your work cut out finding anything at all. Never mind, a great video, nice try & better luck next time.
Great vid.
John Holden's book about the M and M railway is a must read for anyone interested in this line. It includes all the proposed routes and financial troubles.
Also I have a photo of the southern portal cutting which can be found on Geograph. Its small and with broken trees in it. I believe the portal cuttings were the only earthworks between Llangurig and Strata Florida. Shame really it would have made a fantastic scenic route.
East of Llangurig you can just about trace the route back to Pentponbren (sp?) junction although some of it has been obliterated by the widening of the A470.
Carry on Whitewick
Interesting video, how about one covering the bit from Llangurig westwards towards the area of the tunnel and maybe eastwards to the junction with the Mid Wales Railway. Keep up the good work.
My Sunday constitutional , discretion is the better part of valour , super drone work as always , dice the banana 🍌 ... definitely an arc shape cutting around those trees that could possibly lead into the tunnel ...or I'm imagining things.
Brilliant video, although i cant get the thought of rebecca eating a banana out of my head 😂🏆👍🙊
a nice part of the world .. more bananas next time
Family are asking why I'm laughing like a fool. There is no way to explain Rebecca and banana!
Rebecca and the Banana shall live on!
@@pwhitewick Does this need a t-shirt?
You should pack some pruners or brush clippers next time to tackle some of the brambles and some thick leather gloves.
Second lol was expecting a real fork thou loved it
Try and find a old map of the line from the point of it leaving the Aberystwyth turn off then follow it up, also winters the best time as the trees lose their leaves etc
Yes and no...you may be able to see more without the leaves, but traversing the terrain in snow/ice could be much harder.
There is no line - the Aber line turns South at Ystrad-Meurig. It was meant to go North from there at a junction and go up to Ysbyty Ystwyth.
How frustrating. Yes, I agree with your reckoning of where the cutting is; you can even see the rock face. I’m looking forward to your return visit. Will you try to find the other end as well? By the way, you mentioned you were looking for the south end. Did I hear this correctly?
Who wants to see success all the time anyway! It was still entertaining to watch.
brilliant
Paul, in the great "Carry On" tradition......" Why can't you bite my banana"? "I can't bite your banana on camera", it's not right", defo get's you an 8+ on the 'Dr.Tinkle' innuendo scale, & £25 in your PayPal account as promised.
On a more serious note, you were right to call it a day when your explore became too difficult to carry on. Drill this phrase into your head & you won't go wrong..............
" If in Doubt? Leave it Out" ! Love you Guys. Regards Urban Geeze, (formerly Rural Geeze, I've moved back in town).
Amazing to see Railways near me. One id love to see you two do is the Lampeter, Aberaeron and New Quay Light Railway running from Lampeter to Aberaeron with a planned extension to New Quay. Most of the line is walkable too and theres some interesting things like the Milk Processing Factory at Green Grove and the fact its quite picturesque. I'll reply to this comment with a good book recommendation for the line. Theres also a fair number of proposed routes including a Manchester and Milford Route from the north and the Vale of Rheidol Extension down the coast to Aberaeron. More than happy to give more information if needs be!
The Book is The Lampeter, Aberaeron and New Quay Light Railway by M.R.C. Price. I think its locomotion paper 191 from the Oakwood Press
Have you tried looking at a Lidar map which would show cuttings without the trees?
maybe you should have watched this video first Secret Tunnel on the Manchester and Milford Railway (Plus 3 others).From the 7 Jun 2019
Cheers Robert. I'll take a look
It's your video Paul!
@@andreabeck4409 hahaha...... literally saved the link to watch later.... 🤦♂️
Hard cheddar, Kids
Interesting video! Shame you didn't find it but I know what is like, sometimes you go to make a video and thinks just don't seem to be how or where you expect them to be!
Llan-GEAR-rig. Good effort.
Well, I have been watching you guys for a couple of years now and always thought you might be up to a bit of 'Monkey Business'. Well the banana says it all. Great work and looking forward to many more of your excellent and informative adventures.(pineapples next?)
Pack a small set of loppers for a return and some sturdy gloves for those brambles.
Enjoyed the video looking for the tunnel, my company would have been of no use to you both, as I have tunnel vision. But I do love bananas.
Hiya @ 4:26 - when you said "fork in the road" I thought you were going to put an 'actual' fork in the Road!!! Better luck next time!!! 😀🚂🚂🚂
We missed a trick there didn't we
It's surprising how impenetrable the forestry areas can be. When they harvest you get banks of sharp broken branches, then the brambles and bracken grow and the new tree growth is low and dense and everything can get very wet. Several times I've had to give up and backtrack despite my GPS OS Map App claiming I'm on a path.
Mother Nature is hiding that tunnel very well. Come back in the fall. Good try Paul & Rebecca! In 20 years, trees grow a lot also!
Maybe I should have come back from Yorkshire early that Sunday. I clocked where you think it is straight away!!!
Join us next spring for round two
@@pwhitewick if you can give me enough notice, I will be there ❤️
Well a video full of mistakes where you didn't find what you were looking for is still better then 90% of the videos I watch on CZcams! I looked at the size of the trees there and by my estimate I think that whole area was once clear cut 20 years ago then replanted. Back in the 19th century the whole forest would have consisted of huge mature trees, making the job of building railroads a lot harder.
You're correct that this area was cut, the brushwood is left to prevent erosion and also to keep other plants to a minimum until the spruce matures - this makes it a nightmare to walk on. This area wasn't forested in the 19th century though, it was all grassland until planted up after WWII.
@@justvin7214 Okay, thanks for the info.
To quote Galaxy Quest : - " Never give-up, never surrender."
I think I read somewhere that was my Scottish clan's motto, although my family's been Canadian for many generations.
@@dlittlester stand fast - MacLeod , maybe.
@@neilthehermit4655 The Little Clan had more than one motto, but one was "Concedo nulli", which can be translated as "Never give up."
@@dlittlester Cool !
@@dlittlester multiple mottos are similar but not exact, it’s more likely based on Winston Churchill’s famous quote from 1941
When you come to a fork in the road, take it! (Yogi Berra) He also said “ Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too busy”
(paraphrasing from a "bloopers" album...)
"Baseball great Yogi Berra is recovering today after being hit in the head by a pitched ball. Concerned doctors took x-rays of the head. The x-rays showed nothing..."
More banter!
Hi Rebecca you would look good doing the cadburys flake then take a bite 😉 😄
Proves the value of effective camo.
Here we see the gentleman adventurer, bravely battling the undergrowth. Maybe you need to pack a machete. :D
Is it what's described as "old quarry" on the OS map? If so, it's a remote spot, and there's lots of old lead workings in the area which it could be confused with.
got to love the British mixing their metric and SAE measurements
Which is amusing because SAE is American… (England used a subtly different set of units with the same names…).
@@allangibson2408 Thank you for that info! Although we're metric in Canada, we still use certain imperial measurements too...
I understand weight in lbs (though more recently kgs are common, even at delis), distances in kms (almost 2k makes a mile), and temperatures in Celsius (though Fahrenheit is more accurate).
Nope I couldn't spot the portal either from the drone.
I'm betting the other guys didn't catch it the first trip. Then again, it does seem much more over grown now.
I don't think that the Mid Wales Railway borrowed a train from the LNER! LNWR supplied it.
Well thats just confusing...
I'm sure I see you doing it in the woods once
Hopefully you mean finding old tunnels and track beds, and nothing to do with bananas lol
I'm not sure that the shared biting of a banana is allowed within the CZcams TOS 😂
Current EDS completion estimate: 12/11/2067. That's 15 months added to the estimate following the HRE Group video.
Roger that. Big one in a few weeks