Michael Heiser - Defining the “Twelve Tribes of Israel”
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2017
- How are we to define representation of the Twelve Tribes of Israel? Do the Twelve Tribes play a role regarding national Israel? Although the role of Israel remains controversial today (on so many levels), here you'll find a biblical view-Dr. Michael Heiser details his approach to the subject and helps to break down this diasporic paradigm.
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Excellent, as always! Thank you from Holland! The CREATOR bless you all near and far!
Why excellent please in your own
Share what you think MH stated was excellent and spirit led
Thank you
@@beppiek why don't you go bug some satanists because you are obviously so perfect. When you have 2 Masters and a doctorate in theology, old testament and Semitic and cuneiform languages then you can debate. You clearly don't understand what he's speaking on.
We really love and appreciate Dr. Mike and his method to covey scholarly concepts and teaching teach us dummies.
Thanks Dr Mike brother Sir. We love you!
Greenville SC
So can you please simply it for me in your own words
Thanks
Chief River Wind stated that the Heritage of His people were from the lost tribes of Israel. They went to Jerusalem and prayed. The Priests chastised them for speaking the Name of the Father. They said why would the Father not want His name proclaimed above all? Great man.
Gotta love Heiser. Thanks for posting.
Why?
What did you learn in your own words
This is so important to understanding the purpose of God with respect to the nations. The promise to Abraham was that through him all the nations would be blessed. The only point I would make is a semantic one: the word Jew is a transliteration of a Greek word that refers to descendants of Judah. It first appears in the book of Esther where the exiled Judeans are in danger of extinction at the hand of Haman. Today we think of this word as synonymous with Israelite, but that isn't the Biblical use of the word. In fact, John is sometimes accused of being antisemitic in his gospel, but his use of the word Jew is often even more narrowly defined as the religious leaders practicing Judaism. In his use, there are Israelites who are Galileans, Israelites who are Nazarenes, and there are other Israelites who are Jews. The Israelites in the Diaspora of the Assyrians were often assimilated into other ethnicities by marriage. The Samaritans, for example, are usually thought of as being from mixed race heritage. The Samaritan Pentateuch has redacted all references to the kingly line of Judah.
Amazing and important explanation on this topic.
I love Dr. Mike too... but I’d love for him to address that...
Interesting to see out of the 24 replies below, everyone has a different "opinion" of the eschatological question as to the destiny of the Twelve Tribes. Must get their opinions from 24 different "teachers"
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New Testament: The Book of James is addressed to "The twelve tribes which are scattered abroad..."
Revelation 7 (the future) lists 12 tribes [no tribe of Dan... interestingly...]
2 are eliminated. One wouldn’t give a rapist up and got slaughtered. Idr what happened with the other one. Yes started with 12 and finished with less. It’s in the Bible.
Those who are unfaithful among the Jews are not automatically denied the promise that The Messiah would proceed from them.
Likewise, those unfaithful of the Northern tribes are not disqualified from the promise made to Jacob then through him to his sons. We may not know their identity as they did not keep the Sabbath, which was an identifying sign. God knows them and has fulfilled his promise throughout the ages. We shall know in the end.
Dr. Mikes argument about the effectiveness of the northern polemic and the time span is completely coherent. Just look at the slide in America I. The last hundred years and the loyalty of the people to whatever “polemic” they are served through the media! This is why so many citizens are asleep, even in the church.
I can’t find any translation that shows Genesis 49:24 says the God of Jacob is a bull. Can someone provide me with that info?
Just because the Israelites formed calves Ex 32, 1 Kings 7:23-24, 1Kings 12 doesn’t mean they thought of YHWH as a bull god as they were frowned (too light of a term actually) upon by YHWH Elohim, yes they created bull idols from their own background in Egypt. God later taught them that ANY image of Him, see Ex 20:4 Duet 5:8 was not allowed. They made the bull images but YHWH never allowed it nor asked for it. In fact Moses fasted 40 days to turn YHWH’s wrath away from destroying them all after the golden calf incident. They would’ve known what God wanted. They were instructed to slaughter a lamb for the Exodus Passover, they should’ve made an image of a lamb at least but they went back to the gods of Egypt or the Canaanites. They were to soon find out that was a NO NO!!!
The northern tribes even set up their own priests under Jeraboam. They just wanted to do what they wanted to do and ignore YHWH’s directions.
A stiff necked people they were as the Bible describes them. We’re all like that in some one. We want to do what we want to do when it comes to worshipping God instead of finding out what God wants.
Esther 8:9 and 9:30 reference Jews living in 127 provinces of the Persian Empire under Xerxes, spread from India to Cush (or Ethiopia). The term ‘Jews’ refers to the exiles from Judea, not the northern tribes of Israel. The northern tribes were carried away to Assyria and placed in Halah, and on the Habor, the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.” (2 Kings 17:6). It appears they eventually intermingled and assimilated into the surrounding peoples, as we lose track of them in historical records, with the exception of persistent myths and legends of the lost tribes here, there, and everywhere, including the Book of Tobit. In any case, I think Heiser is largely on target here, except for these details I mention here. The writings of Jason Staples (whom I’ve heard Heiser reference positively) are helpful for sorting a lot of this out.
I wish this was taught in churches. It brings to my mind a thought and two questions I have been asking, "what are the prophecies concerning the gentile engrafting into the Jewish people? There is so much focus on one specific people, why is there such a focus on the gentiles in the New Testament yet a lack of focus on both Jew and Gentile in Christ?"
i think that is because the vast majority of christians in the world are non jews. So of course they preach to mostly gentiles. Although that is just one reason.
Because the Jewish people would deny Jesus, and it was prophesied as well. Jesus and the father knew that so why would they focus on people that won’t accept him? Most Jews don’t even know Jesus was Jewish or read Isaiah 53 or Daniel 7:9 which is Jewish theology considered heresy since the 1st century though both were considered about the messiah but the rabbis until Jesus came. (7:9 shows The son of man coming to the ancient of days, showing there are two powers in heaven, and one is Jesus).
@@LC-jq7vn So pastors avoid Scriptures concerning Jew and Gentile as one new Man in Christ because it would be considered anti-Jew?
@@whittakerdanielj They don’t believe in Jesus and 1st century rabbis knew how troubling it is to have the truth of Isaiah and other scriptures in the Bible related to Jesus because it’s so obviously afflicts their claim that Jesus isn’t the messiah. Now many Jews today don’t even have a chance to know Jesus because it’s taboo to speak about him and all related scripture has been stripped from what they read, unlike here in the USA and most other countries. Believe it or not a high % of Jews don’t even know he’s Jewish. How sad isn’t it? That’s how covered up it is. Some that see Isaiah 53 convert and some are afraid to change religion understandably because of familiarity and fear of punishment.
@@LC-jq7vn it is sad I agree. I am aware of this. But I am asking about the lack of the teaching of Christ breaking the barrier between Jew and Gentile not being taught in churches, not what is going on in the Jewish world.
Yes, excellent! God said he would seek out his "lost sheep of the House of Israel scattered among the gentiles and bring them back into the fold." Then the House of Judah and the House of Israel would be joined together again and appoint themselves one head." We find Jesus in the Gospels sending out his disciples to specifically "seek out the lost sheep of the House of Israel." In James 1:1 "To the Twelve Tribes scattered abroad, greetings." This is the fulfillment of the prophets. Members from all 12 tribes are converted. Jesus warns them to flee Judea. They then Trek westward into Europe spreading the message of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Jesus said, "As the lightning shineth from the east to the west, so shall the coming of the son of man." That's how Christianity spread from East to West.
Wow! Sounds a lot like Catholicism (Nothing new under the sun)
I, personally, believe that the Northern Tribes remain scattered and assimilated amongst the nations of Japeth......yet to be called out to return.
For the time being, The State of Israel would be correctly called Judea.
I hear so many preachers who say that the 144,000 will be called out entirely from the present Jewish population; which is utterly ludicrous seeing as how that population consists of only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin....and Levites, too...not sure about that.
Why Japheth?
Do we know that most of the Jewish pilgrims returned home from Jerusalem after Pentecost? Or did they remain with the church? Would that be the reason for the level of poverty among the Jerusalem church? Perhaps they returned after the martyrdom of Stephen? Appreciate any help here!
The Jews in Jerusalem who were from all over Asia were there for Pentecost, something that happened every year until the destruction of the temple in 70AD. These would be wealthier Jews who would go down to celebrate in Jerusalem and then return home after the feast was over.
They were poor cause of persecution
@@EdKidgell please share verses to prove your statement
Thank you
@@beppiek Hi, there are no Bible verses for this - it happened after the events in the Bible (except for maybe the Book of Revelation). There are however many references to the practise. I'll send some links.
@@EdKidgell then what have you used to confirm … if this is truth
Weird
As you probably know 12 tribes+ are mentioned in Revelation 7, minus Dan. Interesting.....
Maybe because Dan is already in the land mostly? Many of them were airlifted from Ethiopia in the 80s and 90s
"Ethiopian Jews, also known as Beta Israel, claim descent from the Tribe of Dan, whose members migrated south along with members of the tribes of Gad, Asher, and Naphtali, into the Kingdom of Kush, now Ethiopia and Sudan, during the destruction of the First Temple."
Tribe of Dan - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Dan
Eldad ha-Dani - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldad_ha-Dani
"He professed to be a citizen of an "independent Jewish state" in eastern Africa, probably in the Gihon region, inhabited by people claiming descent from the tribes of Dan (hence his name, "ha-Dani" = "the Danite"), Asher, Gad, and Naphtali. Starting from this state, Eldad visited Babylonia, Kairouan, and Iberia, causing ...
We have many in SC/GA.
12 tribes=12 cranial nerves.
10 lost tribes=10 lower cranial nerves.
Israel the midbrain.
Aaron said they had made the golden calf to worship YHWH. It didn’t matter they were worshipping YHWH, it was they created an idol the same as the Egyptians were doing for their gods. Exodus 32:5 This proves it’s not just who we worship (Commandment 1), but how He is worshipped, that is no idols or representations (Commandment 2). Christian theologians like to give excuses to their flocks for the centuries old Roman traditions of Easter and Christmas, which may be compared to the golden calf. It’s not the who that is the problem, but the how. But God knows what’s in my heart. Yes, and He knows it is deceitful, and the worst kind is when we deceive ourselves!
Repent of Roman tradition and return to keeping His commandments, including the 4th. Also, keep His Appointed Times as set forth in Leviticus 23. Torah is not just written on tablets, it is to be written in our hearts! It is the Holy Spirit who enables us to keep Torah, which is neither burdensome nor difficult for us.
Grace (from the Father) Faith (in the Son) Obedience (via the Spirit) - it has been the same formula from the beginning. If you are not Israel, you are not saved.
Why does Michael say, “sort of,” so many times?
I would imagine it relates that what he is saying is not technically precise, but that he is speaking in general terms…
This is post Armageddon if you compare Ezekiel 39 with Revelation 19
Ezekiel 39:21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’
This too:
Isaiah 66:15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17“Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.
18“For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.
So the people suffered exile because of apostate priests? No other way to know the true way to worship.
The northern tribes move out of Assyria to the north of Assyria ( the Assyrian clay tablets record the migrations); some also go to the east. The Israelites come back, help defeat Babylon and remove the Judahites still in Babylon. Some of these Israelites are known as Scythians and some become the Parthians. Some cross through the Caucasus at the Pass of the Israelites now known as the Georgia Pass. the Gothic tribes are Israelites; they become known as Saxons which is a transformation of the phrase "Isaac's sons" or the Sons of Isaac.
Judah is still at war with the lost tribes from the north
And God for that matter
Yeah, that sounds like replacement theology..
I agree this is Replacement Theology. 🥲
How is "grafting in" replacement theology?
He is about half right. And NO, in no way does "the church" replace the Nation of Israel. And, considering the apostate condition of this world's "church", that gives me hope.
ISREAL is Jacob … period
There is now NO JEW NO GREEK ….
PERIOD
10 tribes are the english speaking nations of today mainly Britain and America and its scattered colonies.
This explanation is confused because of the conflation Heiser keeps making between the northern tribes and Jews. The northern tribes scattered among the nation’s are not Jewish.
Yes they are.
@@mikef6063 No, they are not. Most of white europe is scattered Israel. If you like it or not.
@@verenatuna9010 hahahahahaha ok
@@verenatuna9010 😂
I disagree with Dr Heiser about the likelihood that the northern Israelites would move south when their king became apostate. Christian Koreans fled south to get away from atheistic communism in the North. Theirs was an agrarian, impoverished society after decades of exploitation by the Japanese Empire. Families had deep generational ties to their ancestral lands. But they moved south, anyway. If Korean Christians could move south to worship God, so could northern Israelites.
I'm sure there were some who moved south, but remember that much of the false worship happening in Israel was only slightly tweaked worship of YHWH. If the people had to rely on their priests, it would be easy to dupe them into false worship. This is a lot more subtle than a sudden anti-Christian and communist regime.
Dylan Moon I think you are making the assumption that God would not take a hand. I think that God make sure that the people who truly loved him New the choice that they were being faced with.
I dusagree with Dr. Heiser here. Cyrus decrees to free everybody in his kingdom to return to their homeland. His kingdom included every land the Assyrians deported Israel to.
It's obvious that the ten lost tribes are Europeans. Christianity spread through Europe first. It's called Christian Europe for a reason. The message was spread first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
@thefbi3056 what's your argument then ?