What if Nazi Germany had fought the Vietnam war
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- čas přidán 23. 12. 2021
- What would have happened if Nazi Germany had fought the Vietnam War, instead of the USA, around 1960? Who would have won? Which type of weapons, aircraft, missiles, tanks would have been used?
Second part:
• What would WW3 have be...
Musics:
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“Most Americans don’t even know where Vietnam is.”
That part got me. Hilarious.
The young ones really do not know where it is. I have had to show them on a map, or globe. That is pretty pathetic. Geography seems to have been taken out of the curriculum in schools. Yes, I am a Vietnam Veteran and I try to show them where we were in the 1960s and 70s.
Muricans are only interested by themselves.
same i laugh on that part..
@@elcamman50 I am only thirteen but I am a big history fan.
Also, thank you for your service!
Yeah it’s funny
Imagine helicopters in Vietnam except instead of Fortunate Son they start blasting Erika or SS-Marchier in Feundesland
based
I also hate to break the hearts of the ss Peter puffer brigade, but by the time the US got seriously involved, the Russians were already pushing Germany back. They had captured most of Germany's metal and oil before we landed on Normandy. So I think if the US had stayed home, the soviets would just be free to commit their war crimes.
@@grizzlyblackpowder1960 based, no american vultures in europe
The ride of the valkyries😌
What is the music at 00:10?
This is kind of a weird scenario, because in a way, they actually did fight the Vietnam War.
A large percentage, though every time I look the numbers change (80 - 35+%) of the French Foreign Legion consisted of either German veterans or hopeless German volunteers trying to escape bleak financial futures or Soviet occupation.
There were no doubt some former SS amongst them, though they were usually turned down if not prosecuted.
Then again, SS members from non-German countries weren't as closely monitored, so if a volunteer was Polish, Spanish, Bulgarian, etc., they may have been allowed in. After all, skills and experience are hard to turn down, and they weren't German.
When the FFL elements were destroyed in the latter parts of the battle of Dien Bien Phu, many units reportedly spoke to each other in German, as they believed that the Vietnamese had compromised the French communication network, and though many Vietnamese spoke French, not many knew how to speak German.
but how the Vietnamese learned the Germany language + Because the Germans in the Vietnam War are just his failure because they are not like Hitler's most powerful army in history in the modern era, but rather just slaves to America and its allies and the Soviet Union and its allies. I don't know the size of your mind comparing weak Germans with National Socialist German
The US Had X-Nazi SS in Special Forces fighting in Vietnam in the 5TH Special Forces Group.
As well as the FFL.
So true!!!! Cause Post WW2 Most of the FFL we’re former Nazis!!!! And it made sense for the French to try to hold on to Indochina (Viet-Nam) cause they were Broke after the War and Indochina was their prize jewel amongst their colonies worldwide!!!!!
@@kennethhoppe2259 you’re mentioning Larry Thorne!!!! The Finn who fought for his country, recruited by the Nazis in the SS and finally, volunteered in the Army and made his way into Special Forces!!!!
They have his documentary on CZcams!!!!!:)
@@sgt_slobber.7628 Yes Sir.
history channels at 3am be like:
When they were history channels
Yeah, as a Vietnamese, we still cannot ignore the fact that America won most of the battles. They suffered less casualties and battles are always on their dominant. The things that made US lost is the goals. They haven't had a true goal in this war, and massacred a lot of people. American public didn't like this idea since their money are wasted on nothing. William Westmoreland and Nixon don't want to invade North Vietnam because China will join the war. They are defending in a situation that the enemies come unstopping. So US hadn't have really a goal in Vietnam war. If US want to defend South Vietnam, they are wasting so much money and the enemies never stop. If USA wants to invade North Vietnam, China will join and the korean war will start again. America lost because they don't really have a goal.
Edit #2 : What are you guys doing? Please make peace.
Sure, America still had their last goal that is to stop Vietnam from communism. They did it, Vietnam is not a communist anymore after changing our view of economy, but more like socialist and capitaist. But America had wasted so much money. The Vietnam war is not necessary for American, Vietnam has been aligning toward America since Ho Chi Minh time. Remember that Ho Chi Minh copied some parts of American and French for Declaration of Independence. Vietnam and United States are both economically allies now, let us forget about those war and look at a brighter future. Hope well for Vietnam and Unired States to grow well with each other. Please make peace.
Edit #3: Thanks you guys, first time I get this much likes. R.I.P the reply section.
You annihilated them.
US lost the Vietnam war because US doesn't have the stomach to accept more deaths and their endurance has worn down. The North Vietnamese has a strong stomach to accept losses. If US continue the war by crossing the Yalu river during Korean war, US will suffer the same fate of heavy casualties they could not accept and eventually withdraw from war while China can accept 500,000 deaths. NVietnamese won the Vietnam war.
right, America's defeat in Vietnam is because American politicians don't know what they want to do with American soldiers in Vietnam
@@IshijimaKairo were you even reading what they said?
Same thing that happened in Afghanistan, it’s purely financial control.
26 nukes feels very tiny for Germany, if they kept Norway under their wing, they would have plenty of Uranium deposits for far more nukes and even more for nuclear power. Other than that, pretty cool! Though the ending feels weird if this fact was used as the Nazis would still technically have nukes to throw.
I think the reason is more in Hitlers psychology though. See in our timeline during the 2nd world war there really never was a "race for the bomb" between the allies and axis. The Germans (Hitler specifically) believed that atomic science was "Jewish Science" And had little to no interest in an atomic program. While after seeing the US with the bomb the Germans would rush for one themselves. Knowing the Nazis, it likely would not have been completely embraced, at least by Hitler.
With Hitlers ceaseless search for wonder weapons, nuclear weapons one ballistic missiles would have been pretty high one the 'must have more and better than anyone else' list especially once the power of them had been seen by everyone when they were used in japan......and germany had the missile tech to that no one else had developed at that stage
I agree. Germany would not have just a few nukes. Germany might not have the most but it would have the biggest and the most advanced. Yanks wouldn’t touch it, the same way they didn’t bother the Soviets.
@@unhippy1 yes the americans for example would not have extremly good rockets because they where all build by german engineers after WW2.
while Germany would not have many nuke's they would have Bigger Bomb's and with having Superior Rocket's that can delivery Non nuclear High explosives'
why do i feel like this is a more realistic man in the high castle with the war ended in a stalemate
Because it actually seems real
everybody gangsta until the Luftwaffe flies over Ho Chi Minh
The lesson that should have been learned in Viet Nam was that you should never go to War without a definitive Objective and an End Plan.
WW2 had those. Viet Nam didn’t and this same mistake was extended to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Americans elected leadership after WW2 that had short memories and poor leadership abilities.
Extremely well said.
Absolutely right !
Vietnam wasn't a war that didn't have objectives, it was a war that couldn't have objectives
Well if the aim of Vietnam was the fuel the military industrial complex, they at least accomplished that goal.
I think you’re wrong. The people who rule America don’t care about America thus why would they care in the end if America win or lose those wars? While they try to infiltrate a new empire to rule.
Germany: Fight in Vietnam
China: enters war
Germany: So you have chosen MY ATOMBOMBE
FANTASTIC WORK! This editing is some of the best I have seen in alt-history documentaries. Keep up the great videos!
I really appreciate how the narrator puts alot of effort into pronouncing the names and locales correctly. Especially the Vietnamese words, it’s not native-like or anything but some of it is pretty close, and as a Vietnamese, I really appreciate it :)
@@MapShiba not all of it. I could swear the mid section was read by a German person speaking English
I remember when I couldn't tell anyone I wanted to go to Cau Giay because I was pronouncing it the way it would have been in English.
what video did you watch? there were so many errors in pronouncing every day words let alone the grammar errors. Its as if Ho Chi Mihn himself did the video.
The AI has terrible German - saying "Looft- Waaf" for "Looft-VAH-fa" (Luftwaffe) for example.
@@CrisisGuildWOW Yes the narration was a mess, and the subtitles were full of spelling mistakes. I don't know if they just didn't proof read, didn't care, or just didn't understand English. But overall it is a good story.
Well, that's a perfect Christmas gift from Zvalid to his viewers, thank you man, I've been waiting so long for this!
Buon Natale!
Yes
True
The stuff is getting less and less realistic though. If you look at how many months Germany spent negotiating with Poland in the hopes of getting the teritory back without a war it would be very unlikely that they would put so much effort into Vietnam.
Buon Natale anche a te
@@Nik-hb6pm happy you like it, happy christmas to you too
Love the use of the KPZ70 as a German tank even though it never would have existed in this timeline, but I like it here because it was a unique an interesting concept.
Imagine Maus and Ratte🤔🤔🤔
@@PiotrZawal they would be easy dealt with by militaries from the 60's.
10 prototypes existed.
@@PiotrZawaleasy targets for bombers.
@@pappenheimer1510yes but they were a joint US-German program
Pretty interesting what if!
I’m going to watch your others now.
"9 atomic bombs dropped in Japan"
Isn't that a bit too drastic? I mean the United States while they did fight the war by multitasking, they did have a standing policy of "Germany first". Without a German war against the USA, I would argue that the war against Japan would accelerate to the end faster than in our timeline, and thus the war would've likely been over before the Manhattan Project would be finished.
With the U.S. not declaring war on Germany how would this have affected the British, Australia and New Zealand operations in the Far East, would the U.S. have still supplied Australia and New Zealand with military equipment to defend themselves against Japan, would Britain have bothered with the Burma campaign or just set up a defensive line to hold at the Indian border and let the U.S. get on with defeating Japan?
It was not the atomic bomb that forced Japan to surrender. It was the threats of Soviet Invasion after the Germans, Europe last stand for a free Europe against the evil Globalist threat, was defeted
The nukes were going to be first used in Germany if they didn't surrender, but since they did they used them for Japan since they didn't want to invade there homeland due to more estimated losses
@@felon8477 even then, if a war with just Japan were to happen, would it even drag on to where the Manhattan Project would be completed?
@@AweShiyte Yes. Only the word of Emperor Hirohito stopped his subjects from doing any more fighting and letting the Americans in.
Honestly this just sounds like a Hoi4 game that you forgot to pause when you walked away from the computer.
Sir I have watched this whole series over the last few days (what if USA joined axis, the Cold War one, and now this) and I must say that you do a great job. I have thoroughly enjoyed your attention to detail and your imagination of a different world that is rooted in historical accuracy. I have subscribed to your channel and I hope you make more videos like this in the future. Thanks for entertaining me man! 😊
What if Americans disappeared up their own arses?as that is where manys heads are,they seem to have a massively propagandised view on world history on a par with Nazi Germany
if that was the case
German soldiers would be yelling: "FOR MY DAD AND GRANDPA!!!!"
This scenario is basically what colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse now talked about. The Americans lost because they didn't fight seriously, unlike the viet Kong who fought with everything they had, the Americans basically played war in Vietnam, this is shown with the character of Kilgore who tries to make his soldiers feel at home by surfing building churches or having barbecue parties
not to mention that the airforce didn't do as much damage as it could've since rules of engagements from DC were strict.
if u serious fight, that wont be VN war that will be 3rd word war
@@duyouc6312 you're right on that while such rules destroyed any hopes of ground invasion of the north. They were in place of domestic and foreign fears. One of them an escalation and likely outbreak of nuclear war.
@@polygonalfortress there isn't any restriction beside some in early day ; the american did go all out with they air power ; airfield was ban from hitting early day ; but later was drop and airfield was alway attack and bomb ; only place they didn't bomb is harbour where there alot of country ship ; but they did mine the Habour and the sea
ummmm Matt really just STFU , That is hands down the dumbest remark i have ever seen,
31:48 “It’s a war crime only if you lose” Correct
Same thing as the Soviets
Could be applied to many other stories as well
I LOVE ALTERNATE HISTORY.
Keep up the good work.
There are so so many WHAT IF stories that could be made. Thanks for this one. I'd like to see more.
What if teddie bears had fought ISIS?
For the helmets there is reason for change: they were to complicated. The helmets of the GDRs NVA tooked the latest helmet design that wasn't adapted for the german ww2 forces and upgraded it by a little so that would be how helmets would actually look like. And it's not sexy.
No true, Hitler rejected the design declaring it too far streched from german traditional helm design
When facing an enemy nation that refuses to quit; unless you are willing to kill them all, don't go to war with them.
That's the lesson the US should have learned from Vietnam.
additionally, do not let politicians run the war. Let the Generals....Like in WW2. Curtis Lemay said, '"I hate war, but, if you make a decision to go to war, use every available means to end it as quickly as possible...i.e. Dresdon, fire bombing of Japan etc..." Get it over as quicky as you can...cause in the long term you will have saved lives...
The lesson that should have been learned in Viet Nam was that you should never go to War without a definitive Objective and an End Plan.
WW2 had those. Viet Nam didn’t and this same mistake was extended to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Americans elected leadership after WW2 that had short memories and poor leadership abilities.
Problem is Nazi Germany was willing to kill all of them. Also would have resulted in less drugs and more medicine. Bit the war would be horrific, millions of dead probably lasting decades.
IDK, The media really played a part, The Japanese were every bit as brutal as the Vietnamese, it just wasn’t brought to your living room every evening with Walter Cronkite. It’s a lot more complicated that we think, but absolutely tragic nonetheless.
@@ZFKATNBADGER40 you made it sound like american is angel 😂
Many former SS fought in Vietnam in the late 40’s and early 50’s as part of the French Foreign Legion. There are instances during battles where German was being used to give commands to troops.
Exactly, and before the Brits used the Japanese forces occupying Vietnam in WW2 to fight Vietcong and regain order after war had ended, and they were pretty successful compared to the French after Britain gave back the colony to them
That does not prove much some former SS helped Vietnam and the army had only few thousand that are ss, ss are not as great as wermatch
@@volkerhauff6565 to be fair, the brit only took care of a small part of the country.
@@japanesefacist2460 … they were Waffen-SS and from most accounts, they fought very well and were feared by the Viet Minh!
How many is “many former SS fought…” in the FFL? Most historians admit some SS passed the screenings and were erroneously admitted into the FFL, but very few. Yes, many former WW2 regular German army soldiers fought for the FFL, but its mostly fiction that the FFL was full of SS.
I hope you keep making videos like this don’t stop!
After 15:32 i cant stop imagining a romanian swearing at the trees while a hungarian is trying to have a conversation with an italian😂
i’ve been waiting for this, keep it up and merry christmas zvallid!
Merry Christmas to you 🎄👍
Merry christmas
Merry Christmas, are you Hungarian? That name seems Hungarian.
@@balkancommenterwithseveree7552 merry christmas to you too
@@zvallid Merry Christmas! Will there be any more post-war scenarios?
"Wars are never fair, wars are never "Right", or "good. If you want to win, prepare to play dirty" - zvallid
Amazing Quote
yes
Thats why i allways laugh when ppl tell me that the genova treaty is so important... Thats the first treaty what gets thrown out of the window if you can win this way...
@@ottonormal3354 We'll see if you'll laugh when YOU are the Vietnamese 7 year old.
@@joaobaptista320 I only stated the reality... And im aware of child soldiers... But nobody does anything about that. So what do you want me to do? Live by your own words or be silent.
Go to africa, stop this 10 year old kids getting abused and druged by warlords. Stop the warlords to teach them in their age to rape and kill innocent humans.
I dare you! Your luxurious life is build on blood and corpses. Face reality.
I allways find it funny when so called pacifists demonstrate for more rights for kids in third world countries, and make selfies of themselves on this demos with their IPhone, who was build by a kid in asia. :D
it makes him sound like a war criminal trying the justify a genocide.
it was pretty good. Entertaining, some still relevant historical facts were off, but I definitely appreciate the effort, content and execution. Good Job
While i strongly question everything about this series. And i think it could be written better, i think your videos are incredible and very creative with how you use actual footage/images to project your story. Great job man.
Technically Germany did fight the Vietnam War
In the first stages of the war when the French were fighting there were a lot of former SS in the French Foreign Legion
That does not prove much some former SS helped Vietnam and the army had only few thousand that are ss, ss are not as great as wermatch
@@japanesefacist2460 the point is there is Germans fighting there. Don't you get it?
@@markhylis9561 But that did not mean all Germans fighting, Germans were minortities on there, Did not mean German would lose the war
If there are a lot of former americans in a unit , does that mean America is fighting?
An interesting piece of contrafactual history. However, I would argue on some key points.
1) If Stalin was assassinated in this scenario, Crustjev wouldn't replace him. It would be a non-bolshevik regime, but they would keep on fighting in any way they could.
2) Without the massive aid from the USA, the Soviet Union (or whatever) would never have exited the war with any type of strength, meaning no Mao in China to begin with and no aid to Vietnam.
3) MacArthur was a die har anti-communist and would probably have sympathetic feelings to the Germans.
4) I agree that this is how Germany would have fought the war, but they would never get involved in an overseas operation like this. Worldwide power projection was actually never the aim of the Nazis. Securing resources was. They played with the idea of restoring their former colonies, but wouldn't shed on drop of (aryan) blood for a French cause.
may be you are right
Yea
The Germans would have left the Vietnamese to the Japanese. It's literally in Japan's back yard if they had fully colonized China after winning WW2.
You should do a video on the Japanese fighting the Vietcong. Would be a unique concept.
@@Charles_Anthony it could be an idea
How would the USSR fall? It's impossible for Germany to win against the Soviets after what happened in 1942, and the USA had almost nothing to do with that eastern front (except some deals for arms) also don't forget UK still exist and they are bombing Germany and winning the air war with or without USA
In our timeline, there is the little known Battle of Lang Son in French Indochina (Vietnam). It was fought in September 1940 between Vichy French forces and Imperial Japan. The French forces also included elements of the French Foreign Legion, of which there were large numbers of Germans who had joined up prior to WW2.
What happened?
This is one I'd definitely like to see the sequel to. I'll even support the channel.
thank you again
"Most of americans don't even know where vietnam exactly is"
That's so brutally realistic depiction of americans often lacking basic geography knowledge
Americans they did not have enough will
God invented war so Americans could learn geography
Geography won't pay taxes, from a big geography fan.
I would say the younger generations dont, because they are too caught up in twitter, instagram and all that other BS, us older folks certainly do.
@@manofchaitea6904 I'm in that era, and I know where Vietnam, Ukraine (before this conflict, (the invasion) and Georgia, Norway Sweden, and alot of others.
I find this quite an interesting alternative timeline, although I question how accurate this actually could be. I cannot find many sources to reference to and it sounds more like a campfire story than anything else. But I must admit that I appreciate that this was made, with such great detail. I have asked myself this question many times before and to see that people actually work it out is really awesome!
How accurate?
Honestly, not very. A german victory in the east without US intervention is questionable, reasoning for intervention in Vietnam moreso, Wittmann as a general is just silly and I'm constantly asking myself why these odd germans act like the us air force when in reality their air doctrin was focussed on tactical and operational support (strategic bombardment was generally considered not worth the effort). And I'm only at minute 12 yet.
Rarely should you expect much from these 'what if' 'history' videos if there's any direct connection to World War 2 in their machinations.
@@thealliedpowers TRUE. this entire video is an interesting scenario but i find that when you get the nazis involved you see people gassing them up for some reason. like in this video.
"Yeah, I know this is all imaginary. Source?" LOL
I think the TNO mod for Hoi4 would do this timeline more justice russia wouldnt exist if Germany won it would be a nation of warlords vying for control stretching from moscow to siberia
Great video! The title doesn't do justice to the detail and nuance you've gone into with the whole alternate timeline and cold war, in addition to the alternate Vietnam war. Super interesting stuff! Would love to see another counterfactual history video where Britain didn't fight in WWI, allowing France to fall to Germany while not losing a generation of her young men, and what downstream ripple effects would have happened after that. Thanks for posting this!
Hope to see a third part, i watched this when it was released and its GREAT
The sino-Soviet split would probably not happen in this timeline. The Soviets would risk exposing their Far East if China were to follow our timeline and side with the Americans. Also, one of the main reasons for the Sino-Soviet Split was over Stalin, since he is terminated for poor performance against Germany, Mao would likely agree with Khrushchev's destalinization.
Anyways, Nice video. Looking forward to the sequel.
I think it would still happen. The split was mostly driven by Mao's personal abhorrence of what he viewed as Soviet's deviation from Communist ideology.
@@weithiamneo1442 Mao didn’t like Khrushchev’s detente policy towards the West. This key issue would not be present in this timeline as both the USSR and China are the only communist states, both struggling for survival.
@@weithiamneo1442 Actually in 1950s Stalin and Mao already had cracks in their relation, Mao always want to take the lead in Communist world, so with a weak Stalin he had even more reason to crown himself as the true succesor of Lenin.
@@weithiamneo1442 I did read a biography of Khrushchev and it said that Mao liked neither Stalin or Khrushchev and treated them both with disrespect. Why else the ping pong game during the Nixon administration?
@@fsdds1488 "Weak Stalin" wtf? Stalin had a much higher grip on the USSR than Mao ever did on CHina.
This was super cool. And that ending was a literal cherry on top: a perfect plot twist, showcasing the concept of "consequences" in its true nature. Simply brilliant story writing and accounting for detail.
Though I really don't think that neither the Americans nor the Germans would use nukes so casually like that. America had the policy of Germany First, and since they didn't fight in the first place, America doesn't drop the nukes anyway. And regarding the Germans, they would've spoken against dropping them because they knew that dropping nukes on foreign territory would only make the civilians hostile, including the South Vietnamese, because after all it was Vietnam in the end, and people had relatives cross-border too. They would never get the saviour status even if they only spoke about considering their usage, and would be kicked out by both sides of Vietnam.
I honestly highly doubt Hitler would only have had 26 of them by the 60s. You can bet he would have made plenty more than that and would have openly looked for sources of uranium wherever he could get it. And they would just openly build up their military in Germany while fighting in Vietnam. Probably make a big campaign to rally all loyal Germanic people to sign up and protect the fatherland and it's allies. So I don't see a issue happening in Poland so causally by the soviets. Especially because there is no reason to think the soviets would know the exact amount of nuclear weapons Germany has. And they would fully know that Hitler would use them on their cities.
If you watch the whole thing, the Germans DID speak out against using the nukes. They start protests against the war after that.
Well it explains that in this timeline the public 100% supports the war so why not
Remember that the nuclear weapons deployed by the germans were AFTER massive territorial gains by the surprise chinese offensive, and on the map you can see the weapons were primarily deployed on chinese or chinese held targets, not north vietnamese population centers in particular.
@@kobeh6185 Well those aren't tactical missiles, they're whole nukes. So I doubt that it wouldn't affect the civilians around a military base.
more please mpre.... we've waited long enough!!
i love this channel
1:17 The Manhattan project (producing the atomic weapons) was a direct response to the feared German nuclear program. If the US never fought Germany, there wouldn’t be any nuclear weapons until they are developed by a nation fearing another rival nation having them.
not unthinkable that they'd still develop nukes for the contingency of becoming involved in the war, especially given that Germany has the Amerikabomber ITTL
USA fought with Germany.
The actuall POD is that Japan never joins Axis after MR pact as they feel that Germany has betrayed them.
Germany and Japan go to war over Frrench Indochina but each cannot sttack the other.
Japan and US go to war as in OTL after freezing of Japanese assets and Pearl Harbour in OTL. After a Shipping incident inwhich British are helping Japanese and US attack them by mistake,UK declares war and US enters Europe.
m.czcams.com/video/8WUMhgDINDU/video.html This videos continuation. Is this.
@@mayukhmitra5819 haha good joke
@@JustYahAverageJoe The Manhattan Project was already underway in 1941 as was development of an intercontinental bomber that could bomb German targets from bases in the USA. It is doubtful Germany could have developed such a bomber any faster than USA did, but it still took USA to 1946 for the bomber's first flight.
Maximum ceiling, 43,000 feet (higher than German flak or Me-262s could reach.
Range sufficient to reach Berlin from continental USA
Payload: 43 tons of bombs on each bomber
This wasn't some puny B-29 bomber we're talking about here.
There was a 1945 German proposal to build massive flying wings equipped with multiple Jumo 004 jet engines to fly from German occupied France to USA. Problem is that the round trip would take in excess of 15 hours and even with maintenance between flights the Jumo 004s had an average service life of just 12 hours of flight time. Seems like the bombers might not make it to New York in the first place and would be better off bailing out there than braving a flight home. The Americabomber program was so advanced that one of its developers tried to emigrate to UK after the war and they weren't interested.
This narrative is like someone make a HOI4 mod to expand the game until 1960s and make ww2 like a early game phase. Love it btw, it's very brilliant
Why can't we get a mod like that. Closest I gotten is Road to 56.
You went a little wild on the use of nukes, although it was worth the watch.
Very much enjoy an alternative timeline, thank you.
Hitler: The enemy is now another!!
Mussolini: Come on, let's surrender
Hirorito: Why dind't do this before?
SS Tropa de Elite: o inimigo agora é outro. Quem é o protagonista? O SS ReichsFührer Himmler Nascimento? kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
I agree, the Germans were well known for their very simple, light, and easy to maintain tanks that totally didn’t break down after 5 kilometers. This would clearly make them optimal for fighting in the jungle. The German nuclear program was also cutting edge irl and Deutsches science was way better than America’s Manhattan Project
Also very well known for their great supply lines too. Remember when all their soldiers in Russia were fully prepared with winter clothes, ammo, and spare parts due to their superior mechanized (and totally not horse-drawn) logistics? They could totally supply an army in Vietnam.
@@PvtSact hey who knows Hitler might listen to one of his good generals to strengthen the supply lines.
@@brrman4089 most excellent generals who never run off and forget what supply lines are, yes.
why would the Germans rush unreliable tanks into service if they were mostly at peace after ww2?
@@brrman4089 Pfffft... Yeah right.
I think ultimately none of the superpowers in this scenario would risk a nuclear war, which could lead to WW3, over a remote area such as Vietnam.
The stategic gains Germany could have from controling vietnam are also remote - they would have never risked half of their airforce and most of their
nuclear arsenal etc. to hold it.
Great speculation!!
*17:03** dudes roasting the current timeline americans 💀*
Strangely, the Germans did fight in Vietnam, kind of.
In 1945-46, after the end of WW2, a lot of the German former SS who would probably have been arrested, joined the Foreign Legion.
At the time Indochina, of which Vietnam was part, was a French colony and the first Indochina war had just started.
There's a really good book called 'Devils Guard', by George Elford about Nazi Battalions in the French Foreign Legion fighting in Indochina.
So, Germany didn't exactly fight in Vietnam, but the same German soldiers who fought in WW2 for the Germans did.
But, it depends who you ask as to weather this is true or not.
Although the French admit to using Waffen SS troops in the legion, they deny having any Battalions comprised only former SS troops, although that's probably revisionist history at it's best :)
George Elford on the other hand would disagree :)
Oh, and great vid :)
That book is entirely bullshit and has been proven on multiple occasions to be so. The French purged in the late 1940s and anyone found to have any SS tattoos, insignia, etc. were removed alongside a large number of regular Wehrmacht troops.
"Devils Guard" is a good book. The hysteria surrounding the "SS" at wars' end, meant no distinction was made between the Police SS/Concentration Camp SS, and the Waffen SS. The leaders of the FFL group were Waffen SS members who had earned their way to their positions in the Legion. I think of the soldiers as being German rather than Nazis, which must've been the case even in the Waffen SS by the end of the war. Don't know how much harrassment the Wehrmacht soldiers faced on their return, but even unemployment could make some decide to go to France to the vaulted gate with Tricolor flying. Wagemuellerr's "take your daily vitamins", "dry your boots and feet before sleeping", "eat", and "use your mosquito netting", was lessons learned in Russa. His opinion was that it took a year for a new soldiers to learn to fight in the jungle. No media accompanied him; He spoke to the media in Hanoi.
@@kevinstewart449 The book has been long debated but is untrue in my opinion. There's to much evidence pointing to it being fake and if I remember right, the Foreign Legion even showed that their archives show no man matching that name. Not to mention that they purged SS members in the late 40s.
@@kadensullivan5994 Please point me to the evidence you refer to Kaden. I haven't run across any of that, so it would be an interesting read. With the communist press in Paris, could the Foreign Legion really be expected to say anything except what it did.
1 million view! Congrats!
18:17 A little correction in my opinion, I doubt that Indonesia will pick a side at that time. Because in Soekarno presidency era of 1950 has "free active politic principle" (or Politik Bebas Aktif, in Bahasa Indonesia).
Which means, In the original timeline Indonesia play both cards of Soviets and US, therefore in these alternative timeline I would suggest that the same event would likely to occur in which Indonesia will play thrice cards while pulling strings between US, Axis and Soviet to gain economic and politic advantage (gaining positive benefit from 3 different blocks while maintaining neutrality).
If we follow original timeline, Soekarno will overthrown by General Soeharto (either by US or Axis blocks), therefore erasing the Soviet principle in Indonesia.
Either US CIA or Axis Waffen SS will try to compete in espionage works to manipulate the Indonesian standings in the shadow, the one who win from these competion will gain Indonesian as its Allies with General Soeharto as the second president replacing Soekarno.
Its just my opinion, based on the likehood of possible historical fact in the original timeline.❤
may be you are right
I remember the 1982 Falklands war. There was the fear the war would become much bigger than it ultimately did. But what ruined things for the Argentines was that the British public had near-unanimous support for not letting their territory be conquered, especially not by a government run by the military. Argentines nowadays still claim the Falklands, but even they hated the government that tried to conquer them.
Following the type of alternative timeline of this video I think Germany would have tried to have South American countries on its side, FDR once said that: "
"Any South American country, in Nazi hands, would always constitute a jumping-off place for German attack on any one of the other Republics of this hemisphere." So Germany might have tried to dislocate British power by helping neutral countries but with sore relations with the UK. So a Falklands war with mostly German equipment (Argentine military equipment in the 40's had a mix of German, British, Belgian and American weaponry). South America in this timeline would become a 2nd Africa full of proxy wars.
@@fidelismiles7439 But FDR managed to get what he needed. With promises of massive economic support Brazil opened up her territory to US bases and the USN had taken over patrolling the South Atlantic (freeing up the Royal Navy to work elsewhere). And that was early 1941, so would be in this timeline with Brazil firmly in support of USA. Any efforts by Germany to gain an ally in South America would have put Germany closer to war with USA if they weren't in it already with that proxy war being against Brazil with the largest population in the region.
Besides, Germany had already tried it in 1938 with an attempted coup in Chile by Nazi sympathizers. It turned popular opinion in Chile against the Axis. Chile was also threatened by the Japanese advance as Japan intended to take all of Polynesia. Chile was officially neutral but involved in defending waters around the Panama Canal against u-boats and would have been counting on US assistance if Japan managed to get close to Chilean waters.
So maybe Germany draws Argentina in? Argentina with its ~$14 million population would find itself up against Chile's ~5 million and Brazil's ~40 million people. Argentina would have no material support from Germany with the US, Brazilian and Chilean navies involved, while lend-lease support for Brazil and Chile would be substantial. And Chile would be looking forward to all disputed territory being given to them as part of the inevitable Argentinian surrender.
I'm from Argentina and what you said is wrong, the people here wanted to kick the brits from our islands , more than 150000 volunteers were rejected because there were no means to use them, what the people resented from the junta was to be lied to , to be told we were winning when it was not the case . British were lied to also, they were told that conscripts didn't want to fight , boy they were wrong , they made it worse spreading propaganda about ghurkas throat cuting prisoners and that made a lot of men fight to the death to avoid capture , as they couldn't run away from an island . After turning democratic again, sellouts politicians kept telling the fairy tale that it was some drunk general's stupid idea , it was not , they had stupid ideas but those are far less known , like using one of the few trasport ships avaiable to bring colour tv sets to "win the hearts " of kelpers , instead of weapons .
Don't get it wrong, if Argentina could find a way to supply troops and some "ho chi min route " to cross the sea brits woulda faced an endless stream of crazy argies ;)
@@andoapata2216 Britain might have given the islands to Argentina voluntarily, except the then-government tried to take it by violence and blew it, and now Argentina has no chance of winning the islands back now.
@@bigverybadtom hahaha , good one !
Oh, people have short memories, the French employed ex Nazi troops in Vietnam, the Viet Minh mounted an international publicity campaign to get them excluded, they were very effective under their own officers and NCOs. They actually used tactics developed by the British General Ord Wingate.
youre misspelling the word Foreign Legionaires
Quite a lot of German defect and fight along side VietMinh they being call new vietnamese ; some stay on until Vietnam war
@@jerryle379 this is very interesting, do you have any documentary evidence of ex Nazi troop defections or capture and conversion?
@@anthonyburke5656 Funny, I read about the French Foreign Legion and they did not use ex-Nazi troops. Too much bad blood from the occupation, remember?
@@bigverybadtom you’re wrong, the US Army employed them, the British Army employed them, the Australian Army employed them and the French Army definitely employed them, even the Israeli Army employed them!
"it's only a war crime if you lose" bro facts
So if america lost how come the divisions havent been charged for war crimes
Yes, the germans are well known for their good supply lines. Also, their tanks would clearly not run out of oil by 5km then be abandoned. So ueah
Yes! Isn't this such a great channel? The Germans are going to send tanks into the ho chi Minh trail? What a joke! Silly video
Even if ww3 started a few months after the German-Vietnam war ended in this particular alternated history. I don't think the US in this particular time line will try to attack the German and join force with the Soviet. Sure you can say they hated fascism and anything relate to it, but in reality they hated communism more than ever. With the threat of losing Europe to the hand of the Soviet in this time line, the American and her allies will eventually join the German to save Europe and fight back the Soviet. That is my hypothesis.
I was thinking the exact same the USA were so scared of communism they would have fought along with Germany to prevent communism to spread across Europe
Agreed. People seem to forget how much the U.S. hated communism. And for good reason.
@@lastwolflord And socialism too; same ideology as communism, just packaged differently. 🤔 🤔
@@lastwolflord
Nazism is a greater insult to the beauty of liberty
Well here is the issue the fact that the fascism is now an greater threat in this timeline as they don’t have the eastern bloc or India this would lead to the Americans being more anti fascist and in part to maybe the large Italian and German population in usa and the fact of the German sphere in America
I just came across this video while browsing on youtube. What a quality. You guys not only explain the military aspect of the conflict but also the geopolitical context and the equipment they would use. I've never seen such detailed documentary in many years.
thank you!
That one American person who thinks Vietnam is in Mars
nice video love it , i wish it could had been true, thanks for the video danke komraden
Zvalid this is one the highest quality videos you’ve ever made! If you make it i from very excited for a part 3 but I can’t say the ending will be a happy one!
thank you!
For those wondering how India had an aircraft carrier in 1960s actually India had an aircraft carrier by 1961 called ins Vikrant which was purchased from the UK
Awaiting for continuance
i like it how theres captions for a video with pre-made captions
I like the ending. Initially, it looks like the Germans are superior the USA, winning the Vietnam war since they are willing to go to extremes the US was not. Unlike the US, they have few real friends with everyone wanting to get revenge. The US had no such fears after losing the Vietnam War and was even able to recover to win the Cold War.
Are you brain dead? The thing about the tanks in the jungle is that
1. The Vietnam jungles were way denser than the Ardennes
2. The Vietnam jungles were full of enemies, while the Ardennes were empty.
The Type XXII submarine thing is stupid as well. The Type XXII was a diesel-electric submarine from world war 2. That is proof that they did not do any research.
They did not put any critical thinking into the video. They just put it their way
Hell, the Vietnamese government even reached out to the US diplomatically before they did China...
"win" the cold war hehe
@@jankutac9753 the ussr doesn’t exist anymore hehe
Sir, there are nö real Friends in international politics. And i still so Not Like being occupied by america
"Germany uses nukes like nuts"
I feel bad for laughing at this.
Bring back videos like this please, this is a masterpiece.
thank you!
@@zvallidOne thing I wanted to ask though is why you have inconsistent TTS voices. The one at the beginning is really good imo
Vietnamese in this timeline be like: Nguyen, how many eyes and legs do you evolve?
A 7.62mm MG-3 machine gun on the Jaguar? This caliber is american and the MG-3 is the 7.62 verson of MG-42, i believe the germans would still use the MG-42 in its original 7.92mm caliber, at least a more modern verson of it or another machine gun in the 7.92 caliber.
Because there's no NATO?
MG3 in this timeline could have 7.62 mm
See this is what I've been curious about: a cold war between the US, Soviet Union and Nazi Germany
Ummmm…what? What’s this about? Alright. Well, you made the video, I’m here, I guess I’ll watch it.
Thanks for the creative topic.
Forget Disney+... This is the 'What If' series im really interested in.... Thanks for putting so much work into these videos. You are doing a hell of a job. Keep it up!
Brother, Disney+ just wins in the budget department.
What this channel needs is more production value.
Imagine a remake of this episode, but with original footage of Axis Germany and Viet Cong reenactors.
Just an example, but this channel deserves and needs more production value. Time will deliver I'm sure
"Someone told about the limited usefulness of armoured tanks in a jungle environment, but they told the same in the Ardennes." lmfao
North Vietnam's major industrial areas were the Red River delta where there's no forest at all. It is deadly flat and subtropical.
Ardennes Pine trees had a uniformity 8 -10 ft Jungles trails like Ho -Ching Minh were thru mountain passes 3 canopy Patches of elephant grass No WW2 Tiger maybe Great for T-34 maybe Panther 3 Doubt it
This was the video's second major flaw (after the germans winning ww2.) The idea of a panzer division just driving up the Ho Chi Minh trail is laughable.
@@jorgenguyen7641 The video never said the Germans won ww2. It was only implied that they "won" due to the amount of territories they gained in the armistice. (which is very realistic and plausible if you think about it).
@@imperialguardsman5929 Sure thing, guardsman, but it wouldn't have happened. Without American involvement, the Soviets would have taken Berlin in maybe 1946, but they would have taken it.
Bello, come al solito
E molto molto bilanciato
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Imagine you could go back in time and rewrite the history. This video is essentially doing the same thing.
minor nitpick: wouldn't 7.92 Mauser still be standard in the german army since they won and would have say over standardization, imposing 7.92 the same way Americans imposed 7.62?
maybe , but economics that make the 7.62 cheaper to make may win out , the latest round is the 5.56mm , smaller and cheaper to make less materials for rifle etc. economics will win over brawn .
Not necessarily. Germany was already transitioning down to 7.92 Kurz (i.e. The Sturmgewehr), so they were more open to updating calibers based on performance.
@@bensigl3766 Germany wouldn't be able to equip the whole army w/ 7.92 Kurz. The Americans where still using Carbines till the Vietnam war.
in general, 7.92mm & 7.62mm only differ by a little in the amount of material used, and belong to the same weight class of 7.0-7.9mm calibre bullets
Yes and No. Because, Germany would keep a larger Military then America, it's possible that older 8mm Kar98k's would still be the standard Rifle of the Reich. Since it would take a huge amount of time and money retraining people to use the new guns, regardless what round or Ammo type. Even we were still using the M1 Garand's Thompson submachine guns, Browning 1919's, and so on.
As much as I like to imagine that German troops have MP5's, and a Modernized STG-44 it wouldn't be worth the time or training of hardcore Veterans of WW2.
A wonderful Christmas gift! Thanks Zvallid for the great work.
Обожаю твои видео, zvallid! Спасибо за русские субтитры, твой контент легче воспринимать, большое уважение тебе. Я жду продолжения этой альтернативной вселенной!
слава Україні!
@@rainfang1992 Imagine judging people by their governments...
@@rainfang1992 slava cocaini
"""human wave"""
now this is a certified hood classic
I can’t wait for the episode “World war 3”
I hope it’s the Soviet and U.S vs Germany
Cause that will be amazing to watch
Germany & Axis Europe. It's impossible for America to support the aggressor and initiator of WW3 though, so America is more likely to be neutral or anti-Soviet
@@user-dj3ml7ed1j yeah I am sure the americans wont attack Germany even if they are in their weakest state without nukes and them having 6 million soviets and tens of thousands of tanks in their border! Totally.
"Mao thought this was too extreme"
Damn how fucked up must you be for mao to say that
the only time he said that
now look at Xi jiping's policies toward the Uyghurs.
i think after being nuked that he would return to being human for just a short amount of time
I died laughing where you said, "doesnt know where Vietnamn exist" and then a picture of Mars. Well some things doesnt change even according to the multiverse timeline. Thanks for that ! it was sure a fun surprise =)
3:16 personally I’d still say the Americans would Prop up the British Royal Navy in order for it to remain the 2nd most powerful fleet in the world to make sure that they aren’t conquered by the Germans.
11 Aircraft Carriers
Probably 5-6 retained/newly built Battleships (1 Vanguard class+2 Lion Class and 3 modernised KGV class)
Several dozen cruisers.
perhaps around 150-200 Destroyers, Frigates and Corvettes.
And and maybe 50-60 submarines.
FINALLY THE LEGEND IS BACK 🔥
WAS SUPER EXCITED FOR THIS ONE
Another great video, thank you Zvallid! You are the 1st alt-history chanel that i ever watched (the 1st video i watched from you was 'what if Germany won ww1' and i liked it very much). I wish you a marry Christmas and I hope that 2022 will be a good year for you and your family. Best wishes from Croatia :)
yeah same i do like that video aswell and it was also the first video i watched from him
merry christmas to you too!
while the scenerio of the Allies losing the war in Europe without America and Hitler living to 67 is a bit far fetched, i like this video, very interesting alternative history, also there are nice jokes in the video!
Yes honestly its the most unrealistic part. By the time Japan bombed pearl, Hitler had already done too much damage like redirecting air support from British military infrastructure to London, etc.
Soviets really win the war
You deserve way more subscribers
This is basically like the Korean War but in Vietnam. I think it would be harder for the Germans to advance that far to the Chinese border though
I think the same
Why? Nothing would hold them back. And I would bet helicopters would have existed in this timeline. It's not like the idea of a helicopter never existed before WW2. And by the 50s people would have built them. Whether in the U.S. or elsewhere. And the SS was extremely effective in the tactics they used. Kind of hard for the Veit Kong to get troops under threat like they usually did when villages know they will be exterminated for helping them.
@@zvallid the coastal highway and railway in Vietnam would help the German advance really fast. Especially the Red River delta is deadly flat and agriculturally. NVA tanks just drove 1000 km within one month in April 1975 along the coastal highway.
Also the Red River delta is wet subtropical with cool and dry winter, it much suitable to deploy tanks in great number than in south Vietnam.
@@lastwolflord The US did use helicopters in vietnam and still failed after 19 years of war. The vietnamese know the terrain just like how finland knew against the Russians and them against the Nazis in our timeline. Guerilla warfare is really effective no matter how superior the other force is.
The taliban are an example of recent usage of guerilla warfare against a vastly technologically superior forces.
Vietnam has tall mountains like Afghanistan and huge Jungles covering most of the territory at the time. Traps and ambushes were frequent. Not to mention SS units have no experience fighting in Jungles
@@Sahd079 I don't think so. In 1972 the NVA mounted full scale conventional invasion of South Vietnam with 150 thousand men and 500 tanks and nearly defeated the ARVN but the USAF and US Navy stopped them to do so.
In 1975 they did the same offensive, but with air support, their tanks took control of the main highways and just drove onto Saigon while cut off many ARVN armies.
US military never intended to take NVA highways railway and strategic cities. They never ventured north. They restricted the bombings, so many NVA airfields, barracks and North Vietnamese factories remained intact.
They only waging endless war against VC guerillas backed by the NVA, took pointless positions in the jungles-mountains that far away strategic cities, and had no sight for the war.
If Germany fought the Vietnam war, they just launched invasion into North Vietnam, capturing enemy highways and railways, destroyed their factories and capturing vital cities. North Vietnam's heartland terrains on other hand is much less jungle than in the south and the west of the country, especially the flat Red River Delta and coastal ports like Haiphong where most of NVA's factories and supports from the Soviet arrived.
Great Christmas present!!
Pd: Before you start the next video I recommend to you to fix the nukes mistake, Hitler actually supported nuclear technology, the reason they didn't build them in WW2 was because Heisemberg, lider of the Uranium Project sabotaged it from the inside believing that the resource drain of the project would only slow down the German victory, however, without a war and his job secured in Germany, he would have had started to make a big amount of nukes
Don't forget SS-Obergruppenführer Hans Kammler. This SS-Obergruppenführer was responsible for Nazi civil engineering projects and its top secret weapons programs. And with Nazi-Germany not losing the war. You could be darn sure that the 3rd Reich would have more super weapons ready and more in development. And knowing what we know about Adolf he wouldn't be satisfied with 2nd place regarding nukes. Germany would in this timeline most likely have at least enough nukes to deal with both the US and the USSR at the same time. And they would have intercontinental ballistic missiles ready to hit any place on earth. They wouldn't need to use heavy bombers. Don't forget the plans of a sun gun. A gigantic mirror in orbit able to barbeque any city or any army. Imagine to fight with 2 suns in sky. With temperatures reaching 60-70 degree Celsius. You wouldn't be able to fight after just 24 hours of this insane heat.
From what I’ve heard the Nazis actually didn’t really know about nukes, the Norwegian heavy water facilities were mainly for nuclear energy experiments
Get a life
@@smallmalaysianboy8025
Germany know, but Britain launch secret opration to sabotace the facility in norwey, so Germany never get havy water.
@@carstenrenekjrulff6272 I think they wouldn't have such amount of nukes because Germany only had 1 of the 4 spots in the world were Uranium could be extracted (in Böhmen-Mähren), the rest were in enemy hands, however, they would have more nukes than the video shows.
FYI, there was a large number of SS that joined the French Foreign Legion and fought during the 1950s. They were very successful and even offered to train the American forces but were rejected due to their Nazi past.
“Meanwhile germans uses nukes as nuts”
That got me dying
i have to say your outlook on alternate history is very unique from other channels, keep it up!
need more videos like this, filled with theories that made sense, theories about political actions, etc
love it!
this was interesting I was expecting it to fallow the germen USA axis line that I saw if we allied with Germany, but this is even cooler. love these what if scenarios.
Two things that don't make sense to me
- the us staying out of Europe in WW2
- the Germans using so many nukes without thinking twice about it.
that video was so good what a Christmas present you have given to your viewers zavallid! keep up the amazing work I can't wait for part 2 and all the videos that will come out in 2022 :))
thank you and happy you like it